2020 Hook Race

[dcbsheb 17]

2 hours ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

Main sheet is fast in the video so it's hard to see what happened. Did you have your hands on it before the gybe started or were you trying to play catch with fastball on the way past?! 

 

PS, I wonder if there is a way to loop that video and create a "gif" file to text your friends?! 

[Monkey 1,334]

Just now, dcbsheb said:

Stop laughing you ass!  

[Glenn McCarthy 201]

23 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

Don’t know if this has been reported, but a J/111 lost a crew member overboard.  Took about an hour to find her and get her back on board.   Took her to the hospital in Sturgeon Bay.  Mild hypothermia but otherwise ok. 

I only know one "Her" that sails on Shmokin' Joe, was it Her?

[Jackdaw 97]

On 7/21/2020 at 8:11 PM, Glenn McCarthy said:

I only know one "Her" that sails on Shmokin' Joe, was it Her?

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/swept-overboard-in-a-storm-kenosha-native-survives-with-help-of-safety-gear-and-devoted/article_c80ba5c7-97e8-596d-8749-a2c4244864c2.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

 

[Monkey 1,334]

On 7/20/2020 at 8:22 PM, jerseyguy said:

I’ve known the POB (person overboard) for 30 something years.  One of the best sailors I’ve ever known, irrespective of gender.

Since you know her, would you mind asking her what brand of tether she was using?  If the news stories are correct, it failed. I’d like to avoid that one!!

[ropetrick 76]

Might have been an old style single spring hook rather than the modern (ORC mandated) double latch style.

[Monkey 1,334]

16 minutes ago, ropetrick said:

Might have been an old style single spring hook rather than the modern (ORC mandated) double latch style.

I don’t disagree. I was using one like that as well. It won’t be Mac legal anyway, so I’m replacing it shortly. But safety gear that fails worries me, so I’d genuinely like to know before I buy the new one. 

[Bad Andy 57]

47 minutes ago, ropetrick said:

Might have been an old style single spring hook rather than the modern (ORC mandated) double latch style.

From what I heard it was a WM quick release (modern set up) that popped open.  

[jerseyguy 1,219]

1 hour ago, Monkey said:

Since you know her, would you mind asking her what brand of tether she was using?  If the news stories are correct, it failed. I’d like to avoid that one!!

If I see her I’ll be happy to do that.  She was in town as of yesterday.  Don’t know when she is heading back to FLA.

[ScowLover 51]

The comments about full life jacket and not the inflatable are also interesting. It would be good if US Sailing did a report on this and the safety at sea implications. In general, we are trained to wear the good inflatables because they increase our ability to survive in a rough sea state. 

[C. Spackler 49]

I find it interesting that the news story said she opted for a foam life jacket given the weather, and she credited that as being a benefit over an offshore inflatable while she was in the water. 

[JoeO 114]

31 minutes ago, ScowLover said:

 It would be good if US Sailing did a report on this and the safety at sea implications.

It woudl be even better if RYC, as the Organizing Authority, REQUIRED reports from boats that either DNF'd or had a MOB incident, as CYC does for the Mac race.

[Sneaky Sanchez 2]

3 minutes ago, JoeO said:

It woudl be even better if RYC, as the Organizing Authority, REQUIRED reports from boats that either DNF'd or had a MOB incident, as CYC does for the Mac race.

I'm actually quite happy that RYC does not follow CYC's lead on anything...

[Monkey 1,334]

50 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

If I see her I’ll be happy to do that.  She was in town as of yesterday.  Don’t know when she is heading back to FLA.

Thank you. A failed tether is a big deal. 

[ropetrick 76]

1 hour ago, Bad Andy said:

From what I heard it was a WM quick release (modern set up) that popped open.  

Would that be the snap shackle on the person end, and not the clip at the hard point/jackline boat end?

 

[Grinder 50]

11 minutes ago, Sneaky Sanchez said:

I'm actually quite happy that RYC does not follow CYC's lead on anything...

Yes.  It’s best that we all be kept in the dark about this potentially deadly incident.  Smart choice.  

[Monkey 1,334]

9 minutes ago, ropetrick said:

Would that be the snap shackle on the person end, and not the clip at the hard point/jackline boat end?

 

No idea. That’s why I’d appreciate her version. Reporters are pretty worthless, but we’re a small enough community that real answers should be easy to come by. 
 

We watched the boat she was sailing on get knocked down in the first storm. Then they got to watch us get knocked down. We know she got picked up before we ever could have gotten to her, but it still left a weird vibe. 

[jerseyguy 1,219]

This is from RYC’s Hook Facebook page.  Might provide some information and insight

This is the tether. The spring is soft and easy to open on the quick release. The pull tab is way too long as well. Tether is just a few years old. 2 others have the same tether and they all are equally as easy to open.

Find support or report comment

 

• 

   Any chance there is a picture of the failed piece?

  Find support or report comment

  • 7m
• 

   Its the snap shackle with webbing pull on the left side of the picture/end of the tether. No close up, thats just a screen shot of the West Marine web page. It is not a branded snap shackle.

[JoeO 114]

3 hours ago, Grinder said:

Yes.  It’s best that we all be kept in the dark about this potentially deadly incident.  Smart choice.  

Jim, now, you know as they say " Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig"

[ropetrick 76]

1 hour ago, jerseyguy said:

This is from RYC’s Hook Facebook page.  Might provide some information and insight

This is the tether. The spring is soft and easy to open on the quick release. The pull tab is way too long as well. Tether is just a few years old. 2 others have the same tether and they all are equally as easy to open.

Find support or report comment

 

• 

   Any chance there is a picture of the failed piece?

  Find support or report comment

  • 7m
• 

   Its the snap shackle with webbing pull on the left side of the picture/end of the tether. No close up, thats just a screen shot of the West Marine web page. It is not a branded snap shackle.

Thanks for the post.

I have always spent more; not less, on my safety gear. I am worth the up charge.

I'll stick with Wichard.

 

[Jackdaw 97]

6 hours ago, C. Spackler said:

I find it interesting that the news story said she opted for a foam life jacket given the weather, and she credited that as being a benefit over an offshore inflatable while she was in the water. 

Without putting to fine a point on it, I am imagining that body shape factored into this. I know as people get larger, and possibly women in particular, offshore inflatable offshore PFDs become much more difficult to wear.

 

i’m guessing she switched from a lightweight inshore inflatable to a heavier intrinsically buoyant  vest before the storm.

[dcbsheb 17]

Anytime a person goes in the water unintentionally, there is something to be learned from the incident.  It would be foolish and irresponsible of RYC to take no further follow up action on this event, and knowing the people I know at RYC, they won't just watch this disappear.  

[Locust85 7]

Aboard Zella a few minutes before shit hit the fan

Not long after we blew out our A2 and our #2 shredded itself while furled up and wrecking some other rigging causing us to retire. 

Max speed was 13.6 which a C&C 35-3 has no business doing. 

[reverend mother 5]

To my friend Jackdaw and others wondering about why she might have changed lifejackets -- I cannot speak for Sarah but speaking for myself I share this lengthy explanation from a Facebook conversation with other women sailors.  [And I do so with quite a bit of trepidation. I grew up in San Diego when the trucks at the beach parking lots sported "No Fat Chicks" bumper stickers.] But here goes, in case someone is inspired to invent something new.

I appreciate she carries 2 kinds of PFDs. So do I. I have done so double handing Queen's Cup, double handing Hook, singlehanding LMSS Q Race.
These reasons are an array and I find neither PFD perfect.
I like the Spinlock Deckvest with hymmar tab inflatable when it is hot and humid, when sailing with others, and in the daytime. I like that it has an integrated harness should my limp carcass need to be lifted out of the water with little or no help from me. I like it has a spray hood and small strobe on a staff that I imagine would wave over my head like a bug antenna.
But it is an inflatable, which in my mind is a "Possible, Probable Lifejacket" but not yet. Another drawback is that once it does inflate it's shape makes some range of motion difficult for me. It is more challenging to swim forward, like the crawl, as the big bladder inhibits my neck and head.
I always wear a foam vest when singlehanding, and at night. The foam shape is the shape and will always be that shape. I can swim in it, I can climb the ladder in it. I have taken to heart some suggestions from a couple of GLSS singlehanders. One man told about falling backwards from deck so as to land on a winch on his back left of his rib cage. He was glad to have at least some of the cushion properties of foam. Dave Rearick shared in a seminar that he values the insulating quality of a foam vest if one is going to be bobbing in Lake Michigan for awhile. In fact, he opts for a Mustang bomber jacket at night for that reason. (I tried, but too bulky for me.)

I wish the foam vest had an integrated harness. In case of a Safety Equipment inspection I have a West Marine chest harness aboard but don't wear it. But I am built like Sarah. When that chest harness is adjusted to not squeeze the breath out of me, I can take the lifting ring, pull up, and see that if my limp carcass was being hoisted I'd likely be sawn through the neck. So my real, but not ISAF-compliant harness is a Black Diamond waist/hip climbing harness - thanks to the SCA women a couple of years ago. They went around the world with this setup. I also use a 3' tether most of the time I'm clipped as distance from my crotch to the deck is shorter than distance of chest to deck.
I am so grateful for Sarah's expertise and really really want to hear more about how she managed her mind. I find it easy to buy one more piece of equipment but it is managing my imagination under crisis to be more difficult. 

Someone asked what vest I do wear. I have an older Magic Marine vest, which is made in England and therefore not USCG-approved. It's similar to the Zhik pictured below but has more foam and a larger kangaroo pocket. I love it because it goes on fast with a seat-belt sized buckle on one side and zipper.

 

[Monkey 1,334]

43 minutes ago, reverend mother said:

To my friend Jackdaw and others wondering about why she might have changed lifejackets -- I cannot speak for Sarah but speaking for myself I share this lengthy explanation from a Facebook conversation with other women sailors.  [And I do so with quite a bit of trepidation. I grew up in San Diego when the trucks at the beach parking lots sported "No Fat Chicks" bumper stickers.] But here goes, in case someone is inspired to invent something new.

I appreciate she carries 2 kinds of PFDs. So do I. I have done so double handing Queen's Cup, double handing Hook, singlehanding LMSS Q Race.
These reasons are an array and I find neither PFD perfect.
I like the Spinlock Deckvest with hymmar tab inflatable when it is hot and humid, when sailing with others, and in the daytime. I like that it has an integrated harness should my limp carcass need to be lifted out of the water with little or no help from me. I like it has a spray hood and small strobe on a staff that I imagine would wave over my head like a bug antenna.
But it is an inflatable, which in my mind is a "Possible, Probable Lifejacket" but not yet. Another drawback is that once it does inflate it's shape makes some range of motion difficult for me. It is more challenging to swim forward, like the crawl, as the big bladder inhibits my neck and head.
I always wear a foam vest when singlehanding, and at night. The foam shape is the shape and will always be that shape. I can swim in it, I can climb the ladder in it. I have taken to heart some suggestions from a couple of GLSS singlehanders. One man told about falling backwards from deck so as to land on a winch on his back left of his rib cage. He was glad to have at least some of the cushion properties of foam. Dave Rearick shared in a seminar that he values the insulating quality of a foam vest if one is going to be bobbing in Lake Michigan for awhile. In fact, he opts for a Mustang bomber jacket at night for that reason. (I tried, but too bulky for me.)

I wish the foam vest had an integrated harness. In case of a Safety Equipment inspection I have a West Marine chest harness aboard but don't wear it. But I am built like Sarah. When that chest harness is adjusted to not squeeze the breath out of me, I can take the lifting ring, pull up, and see that if my limp carcass was being hoisted I'd likely be sawn through the neck. So my real, but not ISAF-compliant harness is a Black Diamond waist/hip climbing harness - thanks to the SCA women a couple of years ago. They went around the world with this setup. I also use a 3' tether most of the time I'm clipped as distance from my crotch to the deck is shorter than distance of chest to deck.
I am so grateful for Sarah's expertise and really really want to hear more about how she managed her mind. I find it easy to buy one more piece of equipment but it is managing my imagination under crisis to be more difficult. 

Someone asked what vest I do wear. I have an older Magic Marine vest, which is made in England and therefore not USCG-approved. It's similar to the Zhik pictured below but has more foam and a larger kangaroo pocket. I love it because it goes on fast with a seat-belt sized buckle on one side and zipper.

 

We wish no ill will. Period. I was on that race and got hit by the same storm. The more information that gets shared, helps prevent the same thing from happening again. That’s the only goal here. 

[Jackdaw 97]

1 hour ago, reverend mother said:

To my friend Jackdaw and others wondering about why she might have changed lifejackets -- I cannot speak for Sarah but speaking for myself I share this lengthy explanation from a Facebook conversation with other women sailors.  [And I do so with quite a bit of trepidation. I grew up in San Diego when the trucks at the beach parking lots sported "No Fat Chicks" bumper stickers.] But here goes, in case someone is inspired to invent something new.

I appreciate she carries 2 kinds of PFDs. So do I. I have done so double handing Queen's Cup, double handing Hook, singlehanding LMSS Q Race.
These reasons are an array and I find neither PFD perfect.
I like the Spinlock Deckvest with hymmar tab inflatable when it is hot and humid, when sailing with others, and in the daytime. I like that it has an integrated harness should my limp carcass need to be lifted out of the water with little or no help from me. I like it has a spray hood and small strobe on a staff that I imagine would wave over my head like a bug antenna.
But it is an inflatable, which in my mind is a "Possible, Probable Lifejacket" but not yet. Another drawback is that once it does inflate it's shape makes some range of motion difficult for me. It is more challenging to swim forward, like the crawl, as the big bladder inhibits my neck and head.
I always wear a foam vest when singlehanding, and at night. The foam shape is the shape and will always be that shape. I can swim in it, I can climb the ladder in it. I have taken to heart some suggestions from a couple of GLSS singlehanders. One man told about falling backwards from deck so as to land on a winch on his back left of his rib cage. He was glad to have at least some of the cushion properties of foam. Dave Rearick shared in a seminar that he values the insulating quality of a foam vest if one is going to be bobbing in Lake Michigan for awhile. In fact, he opts for a Mustang bomber jacket at night for that reason. (I tried, but too bulky for me.)

I wish the foam vest had an integrated harness. In case of a Safety Equipment inspection I have a West Marine chest harness aboard but don't wear it. But I am built like Sarah. When that chest harness is adjusted to not squeeze the breath out of me, I can take the lifting ring, pull up, and see that if my limp carcass was being hoisted I'd likely be sawn through the neck. So my real, but not ISAF-compliant harness is a Black Diamond waist/hip climbing harness - thanks to the SCA women a couple of years ago. They went around the world with this setup. I also use a 3' tether most of the time I'm clipped as distance from my crotch to the deck is shorter than distance of chest to deck.
I am so grateful for Sarah's expertise and really really want to hear more about how she managed her mind. I find it easy to buy one more piece of equipment but it is managing my imagination under crisis to be more difficult. 

Someone asked what vest I do wear. I have an older Magic Marine vest, which is made in England and therefore not USCG-approved. It's similar to the Zhik pictured below but has more foam and a larger kangaroo pocket. I love it because it goes on fast with a seat-belt sized buckle on one side and zipper.

 

 

Hey there RM  - (DIVINE forum name by the way...  ;^))

 

Thx for posting all of that. Like you and like many here, I give a lot of thought to sailing gear, and in particular SOLAS stuff that I rely on to keep me alive. Every piece is chosen to match my program and expectations. So any time someone I respect does something differently, (like when Sarah say she 'was happy she had the foam PFD on') I wanted to know more, and see if there were things that I can learn and possibly adjust my gear and program. Your comment goes a long way in filling in the blanks, so thanks for posting.

 

Maybe someday soon I'll get back down your way for another sail.

 

 

[Monkey 1,334]

I’ll just state the uncomfortable elephant in the room. I haven’t seen anyone wear a non inflatable harness in probably twenty years. They sure as hell don’t play nice with a typical dinghy lifejacket. She admitted to switching to a “foam” lifejacket. What the hell was she tethered too?  
 

I’m not looking to put blame on anyone. Everyone came home alive, so no worries anyway. Honestly just want to know what really happened so it doesn’t happen again. 

[Jono 42]

For any women sailors looking for a comfortable foam vest check out the Baltic Genua. It has a split front which follows women's contours far better than most dinghy vests. Not USCG approved.

Re the tether. Unfortunately the quality of the piston spring can be variable. Better to swap out to a Gibb or Tylasker if you want a quick release.

People also forget that you can soften up the inflatable to make it more comfortable while retaining plenty of buoyancy. You might only have 100 - 130N rather than 165N but at least it is able to be worn without pain.