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Schock 35 vs J/35 - Redux


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Several old threads comparing the sailing/racing performance of the two but I’m not interested in that.  I’m more interested in how they compare for cruising.  I’ve raced on both but that was probably 30 years ago and I can’t recall really what the interiors were like, nor did I care back then.

Anticipated use would be weekend cruising and maybe a week or two long coastal cruise once a year with a few club regattas thrown in.

From what I can tell, the interiors seem fairly similar but the Schock has a better galley and a good sized nav station (maybe bigger than necessary).  Actually it looks like the J doesn’t even have a proper nav station, just a huge ice box, although I’m not sure how necessary a nav station is these days.  J looks to have a more spacious head with shower?  The Schock head looks like it has minimal elbow room and no obvious shower setup.

So why don’t I just go and view the boats?  They are across the border so that’s impossible at the moment.

A couple of other questions related to the Schock, I’ve read they are a bit on the bendy side.  In one of the threads here someone mentioned that when they dialled up the backstay the head door would lock, which I found a bit odd because that should bend the boat longitudinally and the head door runs transversely.  So can they use stiffening longitudinally or transversely or is it not really even an issue?

Another poster mentioned oil canning, I assume in the bow sections.  I seem to recall the 30/30 had this issue, but they had a solid glass hull IIRC so understandable.   But that shouldn’t be an issue with a cored hull like the 35.  Wondering if that poster had mixed the 2 boats up or simply assumed it applied to all Schock boats.  Anyways, if the Schock 35 is prone to oil canning, I imagine installing some partial ring frames and/or v-berth would solve this.   Remember, no intention of doing any OD racing so upgrades here and there are desirable as it would be a couple of years to obtain a slip, so lots of time to work on it on the hard.

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Hands down the Schock is a better cruiser. J35 is pretty bare bones down below. Port side stove, small counter, starboard ice chest/nav table. Schock has proper cruising interior, but might sleep 1 less due to no v berth. 

Also the schock has the companionway inset making standing room on both sides for cooking and getting to the quarter berths. 

Should also look at the J35C. Has the interior of a J 36 with the hull of a 35. Smaller cockpit, larger coach roof, but has a wheel instead of a tiller. We have raced against the C and it appears to be just as fast as a 35 despite having a 99 rating. More rare than the other two

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I found the J35 to be a most enjoyable boat to cruise back from distance racing.  The caveat here is you are comparing to the shock as neither boat has private staterooms, separate head, etc.  If cruising/shorthanded sailing is goal the basic additions of cruise friendly gear like roller furling, good autopilot, icebox conversion to fridge and self tailing primaries/secondaries are highly recommended.  Mine had all listed above other than roller furling and given the long waterline and 3GMD yanmar it made a pretty nice powerboat relative to cruising sailboats.  Heading into 20-25 plus right on the nose/step short chip, although a very wet ride would still motor at a steady 7-even keeping up the a VOR 70 in those conditions (motoring).

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I wanted a J/35 until I got in one. Headroom is a bit tight for my modest 5’11” height.   I didn’t have  that problem on a friends Schock 35 (or my Express 37). 

J/35c is very nice, but those also hold a lot more value than the standard boat. 

We love our Express 37 for cruising and there is a nice one for sale in BC right now (Selkie). 

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29 minutes ago, Alex W said:

I wanted a J/35 until I got in one. Headroom is a bit tight for my modest 5’11” height.   I didn’t have  that problem on a friends Schock 35 (or my Express 37). 

J/35c is very nice, but those also hold a lot more value than the standard boat. 

We love our Express 37 for cruising and there is a nice one for sale in BC right now (Selkie). 

E37 with a wheel is a vastly better cruising boat than either. Just make sure it has the new rudder.

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57 minutes ago, Alex W said:

I wanted a J/35 until I got in one. Headroom is a bit tight for my modest 5’11” height.   I didn’t have  that problem on a friends Schock 35 (or my Express 37). 

J/35c is very nice, but those also hold a lot more value than the standard boat. 

We love our Express 37 for cruising and there is a nice one for sale in BC right now (Selkie). 

Only been in a J35c once, wonder if it has an much headroom as E37.

Lots of good boats in that size. J36, J110, B36.7 C&C 35mkii all good bulletproof light cruisers. 

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I don't think either is a good cruising option.  The Schock build quality is shockingly bad (I've looked at a metric crap load of them) and interior is not that great.  The J-35 has somewhat better built quality but the interior is not very big and the cockpit is not cruiser friendly.  The Express 37 though wins on all points with the possible exception of the head compartment.  Maybe it is too big though.  How about an Express 34?  Not many built but a nice little sister to the E-37.

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31 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

I don't think either is a good cruising option.  The Schock build quality is shockingly bad (I've looked at a metric crap load of them) and interior is not that great.  The J-35 has somewhat better built quality but the interior is not very big and the cockpit is not cruiser friendly.  The Express 37 though wins on all points with the possible exception of the head compartment.  Maybe it is too big though.  How about an Express 34?  Not many built but a nice little sister to the E-37.

Express 37 is an obvious choice, but well outside my budget.  Express 34 would have been my first choice, but hard to find and again outside my budget.

While I don't mind thread drift and am often guilty of it myself, I would prefer to keep this discussion limited to Schock 35 vs J/35 where possible

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I used to beer can race a Schock 35 - certainly would not be my first choice for a cruiser.  Nonskid was slippery, boat needed a lot of rail meat and regular headsail changes to keep it flat upwind, and it was definitely lightly built.  It was fun to bang around on on a Wednesday night series, but would not have been close to my first choice for even a weekend out to Catalina.  I haven't sailed J/35s at all, but have seen a few cruising in far flung places - we met one in the Azores one time en route to Europe.

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20 minutes ago, Expat Canuck said:

Does this mean you are giving up on the Dash restoration?  Agreed about looking at Selkie.

Well, it isn't a resto so much as a rebirth into something it was never intended to be.  It's been fun reworking the design and crunching all the numbers.  I mean it's a great design, but inherently hard to make into something resembling a cruiser.  There has been a lot of project creep since I first acquired her and I've lost a lot of motivation in the last couple of years because of that.  It's a pretty narrow boat to begin with and with the amount of topside flare they have interior room is not that great.  Really noticed that deficiency when stepping inside an Express 37 a few years ago.  

Anyway, I'll keep slowly plugging away on the Dash but I can see it taking another 5-10 years (plus minor yard fees) unless I can find something to let me exit gracefully from the Dash project and go sailing within the next couple of years.  I don't mind a project and in fact would prefer one, but the Dash project has just escalated way beyond what I originally planned.

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The Schock 35 is much better for racing in the Salish Sea. More powered up for the light. Particularly, downwind. The J35's never got lit up here for that reason. A big one design fleet in Seattle area but it's one design. I think the J36 is a better choice but find one.  

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1 minute ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

The Schock 35 is much better for racing in the Salish Sea. More powered up for the light. Particularly, downwind. The J35's never got lit up here for that reason. A big one design fleet in Seattle area but it's one design. I think the J36 is a better choice but find one.  

Agree the J/36 is a better choice at least over the J/35, but harder to find.  There was one in Seattle earlier this year at $10k but looked really tired so didn't even look at her

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38 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Agree the J/36 is a better choice at least over the J/35, but harder to find.  There was one in Seattle earlier this year at $10k but looked really tired so didn't even look at her

I know. But the old Harwar was resurrected as looked a mess before. I think it is part of a sailing school or something.

And Not for Nothing: We had a J-37 too and was fairly successful for PHRF racing as well but not in the budget 12 Meter is looking at.   

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12 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

I know. But the old Harwar was resurrected as looked a mess before. I think it is part of a sailing school or something.

And Not for Nothing: We had a J-37 too and was fairly successful for PHRF racing as well but no it the budget 12 Meter is looking at.   

Yeah, I had forgotten how bad Harwar looked, at least in the photos I saw, but I think that was a lot of just gunk and green fur from being left on her own up the coast .  What was odd was that she was at Burrard Civic only a few years earlier and looked to be in decent shape at the time. 

Part of Cooper Sailing School now.  And they didn't spend that much time on her really, i think she was only in the yard for a couple of months at best.

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I have a Schock 35 and we cruise it quite a bit. We do have a V berth in ours and my kids are small so that helps. I have never noticed any issues cranking on the backstay and having the head door stick. Nav station is great and faces the proper way. Tons of room in the galley. The boat is tender, but we have a Harken roller furler with a split drum so we use an old Hood headsail ( ya know, back when kevlar was baby blue) to cruise and can furl if needed. Build quality is average. Probably not as good as my old C&C, but much better than my old Irwin. There are a few that always do the Mac. The previous owner of mine did the Lake Ontario 300 a few times.

I sail on the great lakes where it can be pretty light in the summer, so we are typically a touch faster than a J/35 on all points of sail. When the breeze gets over 15, we can keep up with a J/35 upwind, but power reaching and downwind they are much faster. The Schock insists on proper sail trim.

The cockpit on the Schock is WAY better. Long and open vs the small bathtub of a cockpit on the J/35. Our saloon table comes out and mounts in the cockpit if people want to wine and get cheesy. 

All in all it works great for us, and is a relatively fast and relatively cheap boat. Right up until you buy new sails.

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  • A Schock 35 has huge 1/4 berths that you can curtain into to mini cabins. We did this for our two children while cruising. They basically each had their own room with kid sized standing headroom. 
  • The Schock 35 has two awesome pilot berths. I sleep in the pilot berth even when I'm solo on the boat. 
  • The forepeak of the Schock can be whatever you want it to be with a little woodworking skills, but I think their's more room to work with than the J35. Unfortunately your head will be next to the toilet bowl.  The head layout varies from model year to year.. 
  • Schock cockpit seems larger and more  protected. 
  • Both the J35 and Schock 35 are made of paper-mache and will require work at this age. But paper-mache is pretty easy to work on for a Schock, especially if you're willing to add a few pounds to the hull. The bathroom door bulkhead does have a habit to compressing, but I would guess most have been reinforced across the ceiling by now. Stringers are probably due for replacement by this age, too. But it's mostly all visible and accessible to an angle-grinder.  
  • For cruising, you only need a #3 headsail. Forget the genoa. 
  • I've seen plenty of cruising Schock 35's on the market, less so with the J35. Our's is still stripped for racing, but it's totally comfy glamping. 
  • I'm not so familiar with the J35 interior, but it seemed more cramped. People comment on how the Schock is open and airy. 
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I spent 25 years racing and doing lots of deliveries on both boats.  Both are a pain to add fuel underway and are not easy to change jibs or adjust the main with just a girlfriend along.

I have also been involved in re-doing the deck on both J and Shock 35.  no real difference, both were wet in the same basic areas and required similar cost to complete. 

The shock I was on had to have a steel reinforcement added from both chain plates to the keel because the keel was going to fall off.   A well respected service yard owner called it the drum after we returned from the NOODs. 

Both the boats I crewed on were tiller boats.  The shock 35 tiller was interesting to adapt an auto helm to that could be removed for racing while the J35 was a simple stainless deck insert that was super easy to use.  For the shock I built a "black Box" that bolted to the deck over the hump near the stern.  

Both boats had yanmar engines that are loud when motoring below deck

Both were lots of fun along with a challenge to do the deliveries.and yes the shock 35 before the steel was added was able to lock the head door with the back stay.

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48 minutes ago, C. Spackler said:

 

  • A Schock 35 has huge 1/4 berths that you can curtain into to mini cabins. We did this for our two children while cruising. They basically each had their own room with kid sized standing headroom. 
  • The Schock 35 has two awesome pilot berths. I sleep in the pilot berth even when I'm solo on the boat. 
  • The forepeak of the Schock can be whatever you want it to be with a little woodworking skills, but I think their's more room to work with than the J35. Unfortunately your head will be next to the toilet bowl.  The head layout varies from model year to year.. 
  • Schock cockpit seems larger and more  protected. 
  • Both the J35 and Schock 35 are made of paper-mache and will require work at this age. But paper-mache is pretty easy to work on for a Schock, especially if you're willing to add a few pounds to the hull. The bathroom door bulkhead does have a habit to compressing, but I would guess most have been reinforced across the ceiling by now. Stringers are probably due for replacement by this age, too. But it's mostly all visible and accessible to an angle-grinder.  
  • For cruising, you only need a #3 headsail. Forget the genoa. 
  • I've seen plenty of cruising Schock 35's on the market, less so with the J35. Our's is still stripped for racing, but it's totally comfy glamping. 
  • I'm not so familiar with the J35 interior, but it seemed more cramped. People comment on how the Schock is open and airy. 

I agree with all but the build quality. With the exception of the deck the J35 is pretty well built and has pretty low maintenance for a 35 yo boat. I have sailed hundreds of hours on a J35 but only a couple overnight races on a Shock. It felt much roomier and has all the needs for proper cruising. J35 is very sparse and you will have to multi task to make it work well. IE use the table as a counter while cooking wash dishes outside etc. And at 6'-5"  i would have to do it hunched over. I can stand at the back of a Shock salon. (Just)

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Had my Schock 35 for four years now and have never regretted it. In almost all conditions the blade is the way to go for cruising. The minimal loss of performance is well worth the easy of handling. I've cruised to Catalina no problem. For me it's not the build quality (It must be OK they are all 30 years old now) It's how hard they were raced in the day. A San Diego boat will be less "abused" than a Long Beach boat... I have every option Schock offered and still manage to win or podium in OD events every now and then. I've never found the boat to be too tender, I've found it to amazingly tolerant of aggressive driving. Both the cabin and cockpit of the Schock is superior to the J35 for cruising in my opinion. The only other boat that comes close is the J109 which is a better J35... 

    

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If you are going to cruise the Schock, one thing I suggest is more and better handholds below.  'Light and airy', as mentioned above, also means big spaces to traverse in a big sea.

 

On one 20+ knot headwind delivery (powering with a blade and a reef), I had the other person on board come up on deck, and saying, 'Don't go down there.  You'll get killed!'  especially with the table out, there's a lot of room to fall down there.

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1 hour ago, condor said:

If you are going to cruise the Schock, one thing I suggest is more and better handholds below.  'Light and airy', as mentioned above, also means big spaces to traverse in a big sea.

On one 20+ knot headwind delivery (powering with a blade and a reef), I had the other person on board come up on deck, and saying, 'Don't go down there.  You'll get killed!'  especially with the table out, there's a lot of room to fall down there.

We hove-to one windy night awaiting the sun to enter the anchorage. Mom was up on deck barfing and all worried about the kids screaming downstairs. I opened the hatch to check on them (we have plexi hatch boards, now) and discovered the kids had pulled all the cushions into the main salon and made a bouncy room.  So...the Schock does make a better bouncy room than a J35. 

But, yeah, the Schock isn't much fun bashing into big seas. I have yet to hear of anyone doing true offshore sailing in a Schock 35.  

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I have had a J35 since 1999. For me it has been an ideal boat. I have also sailed on and against Schock 35s. We rarely had an issue with any of the Schock 35s. That said, when i sailed on one, i felt we could get the speed up to a J35 speed. The Schock 35 did not like pinching. 

As far as cruising, there are many different interior configurations. The head, galley, chart table and quarter berths are all the same. But the main settee could have seat backs or not. Mine has seat backs and shelf that provides storage behind the backs. Each corner of the shelf has a locker with a sliding plexiglass cover. The v berth is long and wide. Mine has a bulkhead between the v berth and head. Others have a curtain. The quarter berths are huge. The hull sections of the interior are lined with light spruce ceiling. It is a comfortable interior. Yes, the head room is marginal for some people.

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4 hours ago, C. Spackler said:

 

But, yeah, the Schock isn't much fun bashing into big seas. I have yet to hear of anyone doing true offshore sailing in a Schock 35.  

It would be scary in real conditions for sure... Was never designed for that purpose. 

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8 hours ago, C. Spackler said:

I have yet to hear of anyone doing true offshore sailing in a Schock 35.  

Does the Schock 35's cousin count? A friend has sailed a Santana 35 from California to Malaysia taking a few years and stopping everywhere along the way. Said he got some lively surfing along the way.

He's looking at trading for a J/120 or J/40.

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2 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

Does the Schock 35's cousin count? A friend has sailed a Santana 35 from California to Malaysia taking a few years and stopping everywhere along the way. Said he got some lively surfing along the way.

He's looking at trading for a J/120 or J/40.

I raced Santana 35s a fair bit back in the day. Great boats. However I would not go offshore in one unless it was going to be nice downwind conditions all the way (e.g. Hawaii) with someone else doing the delivery back.

Express 34 is an even better boat than the 37, but not many around and off topic.

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14 hours ago, Great White said:

The head, galley, chart table and quarter berths are all the same

I don't think this is entirely true, the head is different in the J/35's with the 'J/40 forepeak option'. That is what I have. At least its different than the 3 or 4 other J/35's I've been on. It has a mirrored bulkhead, mirrored sliding doors on a big storage area, and a molded sink & liner pan that is much more 'finished' than the originals.

I cruise my J/35 quite comfortably. It makes a great fast cruiser for a couple. But then I've added a windlass, refrigeration, bow roller w/35# Manson, kick ass stereo & amp, hot water heater, 2 big group 29 batteries and starting battery, Harken RF.  AND it has a wheel.

Needless to say, it cant sail near its 72 rating.

I've slept 6 or 7, but we were all hammered at the Figawi so that doesn't count. It will comfortably sleep 2 couples with the small water tanks (I have 2) as the big limitation for extended cruising.

Also, the 109 is a totally different boat, I've sailed and raced on a few. Me? I'd take the layout of the 35 anyday but lust after a retractable pole. I like Whites sprit setup, I could use that. Then down the slipper asym slope I would go. I have a cruising cut asym that is a bitch to jybe and sucks for racing.

17 yrs in, I love the boat. I just wish TPI didn't build it tho...

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5 hours ago, DrewR said:

I don't think this is entirely true, the head is different in the J/35's with the 'J/40 forepeak option'. That is what I have. At least its different than the 3 or 4 other J/35's I've been on. It has a mirrored bulkhead, mirrored sliding doors on a big storage area, and a molded sink & liner pan that is much more 'finished' than the originals.

I cruise my J/35 quite comfortably. It makes a great fast cruiser for a couple. But then I've added a windlass, refrigeration, bow roller w/35# Manson, kick ass stereo & amp, hot water heater, 2 big group 29 batteries and starting battery, Harken RF.  AND it has a wheel.

Needless to say, it cant sail near its 72 rating.

I've slept 6 or 7, but we were all hammered at the Figawi so that doesn't count. It will comfortably sleep 2 couples with the small water tanks (I have 2) as the big limitation for extended cruising.

Also, the 109 is a totally different boat, I've sailed and raced on a few. Me? I'd take the layout of the 35 anyday but lust after a retractable pole. I like Whites sprit setup, I could use that. Then down the slipper asym slope I would go. I have a cruising cut asym that is a bitch to jybe and sucks for racing.

17 yrs in, I love the boat. I just wish TPI didn't build it tho...

Yes, you are correct, the later J35s did have a different head arrangement. A friend had one with the J40 head arrangement and I did notice the difference. I can't remember the date when that started.

J109 is a completely different boat. I never felt that it was a direct replacement for the J35. The new J99 seems to be a closer replacement for a J35 as it too is a simple boat.

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49 minutes ago, valcour said:

How many of the later J/35s had the “hot tub” style cockpits, ala the J/33?

One broker told me 15 were built. Unlike the J33, the cockpit extended all the way to the transom, forward to the cabin bulkhead and eliminated the bridgedeck. It was also shallower and I think the seats might have been eliminated. There was also low comings kind of like a J105. It seemed like the cockpit infringed on the interior and made it more difficult to get into the quarter berths. I looked at one in 1999. Definitely a nice boat, but outside my budget at that time.

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1 hour ago, Great White said:

One broker told me 15 were built. Unlike the J33, the cockpit extended all the way to the transom, forward to the cabin bulkhead and eliminated the bridgedeck. It was also shallower and I think the seats might have been eliminated. There was also low comings kind of like a J105. It seemed like the cockpit infringed on the interior and made it more difficult to get into the quarter berths. I looked at one in 1999. Definitely a nice boat, but outside my budget at that time.

There was one here in Seattle. Flashback was a 1988 (not sure Hull#) had the bathtub cockpit. Basically it removed the lower floor and set the floor at the seat height. Has a couple foot braces for steering and the traveler is floor mounted. 

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5 hours ago, Locus said:

There was one here in Seattle. Flashback was a 1988 (not sure Hull#) had the bathtub cockpit. Basically it removed the lower floor and set the floor at the seat height. Has a couple foot braces for steering and the traveler is floor mounted. 

Yep, that's the one I looked at in 1999. I think it was Raptor then.

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On 7/15/2020 at 9:23 AM, Great White said:

 

J109 is a completely different boat. I never felt that it was a direct replacement for the J35. The new J99 seems to be a closer replacement for a J35 as it too is a simple boat.

Interesting that you would say that, if you look at the numbers and amenities of the S35/J109/J35 they are almost identical with the J019 being a more modern rig/sailplan for sure but very similar performance range. A fully optioned S35 (like mine) has all the accommodations the J109 offers. 

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2 minutes ago, Movable Ballast said:

Interesting that you would say that, if you look at the numbers and amenities of the S35/J109/J35 they are almost identical with the J019 being a more modern rig/sailplan for sure but very similar performance range. A fully optioned S35 (like mine) has all the accommodations the J109 offers. 

Sorry to drift your thread again 12 metre.

Movable Ballast: Have you been on a J/109?  It has a door for the double sized quarterberth and V-berth, lots of cabinet storage that the J/35, Schock 35, and Express 37 don't have.  The interior offers private spaces in a way that the others don't, but also feels smaller as a result.  It is also a fractional rig with a bigger main and smaller jibs.  Rig tune is different from the swept spreaders and lack of checkstays (and the J/109 has a stiffer mast than my Express 37).

They do perform fairly closely and are fun to race together, but I don't seem them as similar boats.

I don't have a lot of J/35 or S/35 experience (I've climbed around on both but sailed on neither), but have sailed a lot on J/109s and own an Express 37.

I love our Express 37, but think the J/109 has some nice aspects and would have considered one if they didn't cost 2-3x what an Express 37 costs and 4-6x what a J/35 or Schock 35 costs.

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4 minutes ago, Alex W said:

Sorry to drift your thread again 12 metre.

Movable Ballast: Have you been on a J/109?  It has a door for the double sized quarterberth and V-berth, lots of cabinet storage that the J/35, Schock 35, and Express 37 don't have.  The interior offers private spaces in a way that the others don't, but also feels smaller as a result.  It is also a fractional rig with a bigger main and smaller jibs.  Rig tune is different from the swept spreaders and lack of checkstays (and the J/109 has a stiffer mast than my Express 37).

They do perform fairly closely and are fun to race together, but I don't seem them as similar boats.

I don't have a lot of J/35 or S/35 experience (I've climbed around on both but sailed on neither), but have sailed a lot on J/109s and own an Express 37.

I love our Express 37, but think the J/109 has some nice aspects and would have considered one if they didn't cost 2-3x what an Express 37 costs and 4-6x what a J/35 or Schock 35 costs.

Yes I've sailed all three boats and own an S35. The layouts are different for sure, is that the conversation? Then yes they are different but if you look at the usability of the boats they are very similar except for the J35 which is more spartan than either boat, I think that was the actual conversation.  I'd love a 109 but as you say they are very expensive. I think they hold value because of how good a boat they are (IMO). I just did a turbo conversion to my S35 using the J109 sprit design as my base data collection point and did an extensive comparison of the modified S35 Vs the J109 to support my PHRF adjustment.  I can't (or don't want to) afford a J109 so I built one...  

 

kook sprit1.JPG

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I see the J/109 interior as unique among these 3 or 4 boats for providing privacy suitable for cruising with two couples or a family with older kids.  This isn't a part of racing usability but is a big part of cruising usability and has driven some of the J/109 purchases that I know.

Is there a thread on your sprit conversion?  I'd love to read more about it and also see how you presented this to your local PHRF board and what your new rating came to.  I'm curious about a sprit on my boat, but not ready for my PHRF to adjust by 9-12 points.

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26 minutes ago, Alex W said:

I see the J/109 interior as unique among these 3 or 4 boats for providing privacy suitable for cruising with two couples or a family with older kids.  This isn't a part of racing usability but is a big part of cruising usability and has driven some of the J/109 purchases that I know.

Is there a thread on your sprit conversion?  I'd love to read more about it and also see how you presented this to your local PHRF board and what your new rating came to.  I'm curious about a sprit on my boat, but not ready for my PHRF to adjust by 9-12 points.

I hear you... I posted the conversion in "fix it Anarchy" DIY bowsprit I think... As with all things PHRF it depends on your local PHRF board to the hit you'd take. SoCal PHRF hit me with -6/-9/-12 which I though was reasonable. The performance gains are equitable to the rating adjustment and the boat is more fun to sail. 

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Not to contribute to more drift, but the J35c is a J35 with a ~J109 interior (or at least what qualifies for a standard Jboat interior) J110 is a J36 with sprit and similar modern J interior. Both these meed the OP requirements EXCEPT for price. Both are rare and from what i can find are J109 level of price. So 3-5x a J35 or S35. There are only 36 J35c and 16 J110. 

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45 minutes ago, Locus said:

Not to contribute to more drift, but the J35c is a J35 with a ~J109 interior (or at least what qualifies for a standard Jboat interior) J110 is a J36 with sprit and similar modern J interior. Both these meed the OP requirements EXCEPT for price. Both are rare and from what i can find are J109 level of price. So 3-5x a J35 or S35. There are only 36 J35c and 16 J110. 

Somewhere on this forum was a post a few years back about JBoats recycling hull shapes. I know the J29 and J30 history. But that old post had hull design recycling between the imperial Jboats and the new metric (J 109, J110, and so on). Did you make that post a few years ago?. I found it fascinating reading. 

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There was a fair bit of recycling but not so much in recent years.  The following are iterations of the same hull:

J29=j30 reduced freeboard

j35=j36 new rig, simpler interior

j110=j35c with a sprit (not related to original 35/36)

j39=j37/37c

j42=j40 but I am not positive these used the same hull mold.

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I thought the 35c shared most of the hull with the 35/36 and the 110 evolved that to be closer to the then future j105. But no I didn't write that post. Am aware of the hull badge engineering from j though. 

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1 hour ago, Locus said:

I thought the 35c shared most of the hull with the 35/36 and the 110 evolved that to be closer to the then future j105. But no I didn't write that post. Am aware of the hull badge engineering from j though. 

No, 35c is a completely different hull shape designed about 10 years after the 35/36.  It was only a couple years into the cycle when the 105 came out so they slapped a sprit on it and called it the 110.  Got replaced by the 109 which was developed with CHS and IRC in mind for the Euro market.  

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  • 2 months later...
On 7/16/2020 at 10:19 AM, Movable Ballast said:

Yes I've sailed all three boats and own an S35. The layouts are different for sure, is that the conversation? Then yes they are different but if you look at the usability of the boats they are very similar except for the J35 which is more spartan than either boat, I think that was the actual conversation.  I'd love a 109 but as you say they are very expensive. I think they hold value because of how good a boat they are (IMO). I just did a turbo conversion to my S35 using the J109 sprit design as my base data collection point and did an extensive comparison of the modified S35 Vs the J109 to support my PHRF adjustment.  I can't (or don't want to) afford a J109 so I built one...  

 

kook sprit1.JPG

How did the turbo job work out, we have a J 105 A sail thinking about turboing a Santana 35?

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3 minutes ago, kmcfast said:

How did the turbo job work out, we have a J 105 A sail thinking about turboing a Santana 35?

So for we love it. The rating seems fair and it's much more fun when it get's wound up. For a SAN 35 the foretriangle is so small. You'd have to figure if there was enough extra speed potential to offset the rating penalty. The SAN 35 is much lighter than the SCH 35 so it might pay. If it were me I'd add jumpers and run MH kites and make sure it had enough power.

The other point to consider would the reduced forward floatation due to the lower bow angle on the SAN 35 Vs the SCH 35 in waves it may become a submarine! Maybe do a prototype with a big ALU tube strapped to the deck and see how it goes... 

The actual retracting sprit job is pretty straight forward if you are contemplating it you probably have the skill. I have plans vendors and a template I could PM you if you like.   

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15 hours ago, kmcfast said:

Our setup on the Santana 35 is a J105 a sail and Main has the same total SA as the J 105. Santana 35 is 600# heaver. How much of a rating hit did you take?

-6/-9/-12. The sprit is 140% of J. About 5.5ft. ratiometrically wise this penalty would less damaging to a 120 rater like the SAN 35 than it was on my 72 rater but it's PHRF so it's a box of chocolates...     

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16 hours ago, Movable Ballast said:

The actual retracting sprit job is pretty straight forward if you are contemplating it you probably have the skill. I have plans vendors and a template I could PM you if you like.   

Can you PM this to me? I'm interested in this for my Schock 35

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  • 1 year later...

The 1987 Schock “Gringo” formerly owned by Monty Yearly of Oceanside was acquired by myself and my partners and is being fitted for SCYA Midwinter’s Regatta. Compared to the Santana 35 “Jabberwork” Gringo sails “lighter” despite actually being 1,500 heavier. Massive mainsail. We’re in the process of shaking out the dust in preparation for Schock 35 class races and competing with J 35, 105 and Farr 40s so further notes and observations will be forthcoming 

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