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About the SA Forum

If you’re looking to have your comments edited or ignored at the whim of a curmudgeon, then you’ve come to the wrong place. Got an opinion? Let’s hear it. But you better prepare for a healthy dose of reality. This is where the big kids play. If you can’t stand the heat, there are other places for you of the more sensitive in nature.

I hear the words.... but considering every forum has a moderator with a... "life perspective", I am bound to ask where the boundaries lie, cos I my boat project that seems to offend everyone as much as Brent Swains ideas about boat building

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Brent Swain's ideas about boat building weren't the problem. Brent was. He was an insufferable asshole. Even so, he was tolerated and even appreciated for it on the forum. Until he went too far in his (often entertaining) war with Bob Perry.

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For entertainment purposes, is there a place I can find a relatively complete description of what's hosed about Swain's designs?

 

Also fyi, I see on his "Origami Boats" site he is listing his creations as "a Swain 36" and "a Swain 42" and so on. lul.

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4 hours ago, Temptation said:

About the SA Forum

If you’re looking to have your comments edited or ignored at the whim of a curmudgeon, then you’ve come to the wrong place. Got an opinion? Let’s hear it. But you better prepare for a healthy dose of reality. This is where the big kids play. If you can’t stand the heat, there are other places for you of the more sensitive in nature.

I hear the words.... but considering every forum has a moderator with a... "life perspective", I am bound to ask where the boundaries lie, cos I my boat project that seems to offend everyone as much as Brent Swains ideas about boat building

Brent Swain's idea were not so much the problem as

1- Brent militant conviction that anybody who did not hail him as The Only Real Cruiser And Saviour was an ignorant lubber

and

2- his abrasive ignorance about almost everything including places he claimed to have sailed to, and actually sailing.

FB- Doug

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3 hours ago, Temptation said:

I see, and where can Brent be found these days?

AFAIK he has been booted from every sailing site on the Interweb.

As noted above, it's not his boatbuilding ideas that are the problem, it's him. He lies about his boats, everyone else is an ignorant fool and he's a deadbeat who is proud of never holding a job while mooching off the world.

He claims to be entitled to do that because he's a combination of Nordic royalty going back a millennium or two and partially indigenous as well.

He's an embarrassment to all Canadians.

Last I heard he lives here.

 

Brent Swain Paradise.jpg

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2 hours ago, Breamerly said:

For entertainment purposes, is there a place I can find a relatively complete description of what's hosed about Swain's designs?

 

Also fyi, I see on his "Origami Boats" site he is listing his creations as "a Swain 36" and "a Swain 42" and so on. lul.

Brent came up with a "frameless" origami design that required minimum welding so it could be built quickly.  The downside to an origami design is that it limits the hull shape.   This can be somewhat mitigated by increasing the number of cuts in the steel but that adds to the amount of welding and difficulty in forming the hull shape.   Brent's design has an ungainly chine just below the waterline running along the middle region of the boat which probably has a noticeable performance hit.

Small steel boats in Brent's size range are heavier than boats made of fiberglass, wood, or aluminum.   A frameless boat relies on the plating for strength - the plating has to be thicker than on a steel boat with framing to get the required strength.  A steel boat that is frameless ends up even heavier than a conventional steel boat with framing. You could build an origami hull and add in framing so thinner plating could be used but it would be a slow process since each frame would have to be custom made from measuring the hull since the exact shape of the hull isn't known until the hull is formed.   All of this additional weight doesn't add enough stability that you could increase the rig size sufficiently to counteract the weight increase.   So you have a slower boat.

Brent's design advantage is that the hull shell can be built quickly.   But building the hull shell is a small part of the total effort to build and fit out a boat.  A conventional framed steel hull could have the plating and frames NC cut - the hull shell fabrication would still take longer than Brent's, but the increase in time would be small compared to the overall built/fit out time.  It is even possible that a conventional framed steel boat could be built and finished faster since some interior parts could be NC cut.  And steel framed construction gives a lighter, stronger boat.

 

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3 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Temptation, 

show us your girlfriend’s tits and get the fuck out!

Um maybe that’s her in the mud ? And er maybe temptation is brenters sock 

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

and he's a deadbeat who is proud of never holding a job while mooching off the world.

He actually claimed to be a journeyman welder at the age of 21 showing the older fool how to do it right. 
 

He is also highly skilled at welding acorn nuts upside down as attachment points for various items and his boats need only 15 minutes of maintenance a year. 

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20 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

He is also highly skilled at welding acorn nuts upside down as attachment points for various items and his boats need only 15 minutes of maintenance a year. 

Thick he cane handelle the 3/4" Rod an puddelle size of Nantuckette?  Common Brente........ proove us rongue boute youre madd skilles....................                      :)

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12 hours ago, slap said:

Brent's design advantage is that the hull shell can be built quickly.   But building the hull shell is a small part of the total effort to build and fit out a boat.  A conventional framed steel hull could have the plating and frames NC cut - the hull shell fabrication would still take longer than Brent's, but the increase in time would be small compared to the overall built/fit out time.  It is even possible that a conventional framed steel boat could be built and finished faster since some interior parts could be NC cut.  And steel framed construction gives a lighter, stronger boat.

yeah I agree with that. I have read the engineering arguments against this style of boat building and I agree that over a certain length, the hull plate will be insufficient for hogging and sagging.

BUT

This guy seems to have a lot of ACTUAL EXPERIENCE with steel boats, which in this day of plastic glass fibers, is hard to find. Locations that can facilitate larger steel boat building on a budget in the 3rd world, even harder.

 

 

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We have FKT for our steel boat building needs. Brent is a tool and lives on a rusty, condensation laden shitbox in Comox. Nobody here ever listened to him for a reason.
 

 

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3 hours ago, Temptation said:

BUT

This guy seems to have a lot of ACTUAL EXPERIENCE with steel boats, which in this day of plastic glass fibers, is hard to find. Locations that can facilitate larger steel boat building on a budget in the 3rd world, even harder.

 

10 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

obviously posting as a sock called Temptation methinks..

#Me to                                         :)

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2 hours ago, Temptation said:

yeah I agree with that. I have read the engineering arguments against this style of boat building and I agree that over a certain length, the hull plate will be insufficient for hogging and sagging.

BUT

This guy seems to have a lot of ACTUAL EXPERIENCE with steel boats, which in this day of plastic glass fibers, is hard to find. Locations that can facilitate larger steel boat building on a budget in the 3rd world, even harder.

Brent does have a lot of actual experience with steel boats.   But he has lost all credibility with his lies and personal attacks, and a resistance to admit to the downsides of steel and the origami method.   And that's a big loss to the sailing community.

As an example, he claims that he maintains the steel hull of his boat with just a couple of hours of work a year.  That goes against everything I've heard or read from other steel boat owners - by a huge margin.

I'd rather rely on advice from posters here like "Fah Kiew Tu"  who have built steel boats  and can discuss the strengths and weaknesses rationally.   You might want to go over to boatdesign.net - there are a number of threads on steel boat building and on Brent's origami method.

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...or just follow Craig here. We all like his laid back, take it all in stride, take the Camaro for a ride attitude and his ingenious methods of hull construction. 

Who could ever get mad at this guy and he never even heard of Brent Swine!

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Temptation said:

yeah I agree with that. I have read the engineering arguments against this style of boat building and I agree that over a certain length, the hull plate will be insufficient for hogging and sagging.

BUT

This guy seems to have a lot of ACTUAL EXPERIENCE with steel boats, which in this day of plastic glass fibers, is hard to find. Locations that can facilitate larger steel boat building on a budget in the 3rd world, even harder.

 

Yeah but the boat ends up with 3rd world equipment and systems, and the 'cruiser' ends up living like a penitent in a mud hut.

And rather few people want a steel boat. The Army doesn't even make tanks out of steel any more, composites (fiberglass, basically) are far stronger and tougher.

Some folks are in love with steel, some folks are in love with wood, some folks just want to sail and cruise and/or race in as nice a boat as they can manage and put a lower priority on what the hull is built of (which is about 5~10% of the overall requirements of the boat anyway). I was in the Navy, you couldn't pay me to have a steel boat, but I've owned wooden boats in the past and might again. Meanwhile fiberglass ones in just about any size/shape are inexpensive and readily available.

FB- Doug

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6 hours ago, Temptation said:

that. I have read the engineering arguments against this style of boat building 

It isn’t actually boat building.

Its dream crushing.

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Curiously, there is a bare aluminium Brentboat in the yard my boat is currently in.

Looks like it was well done but it's as ugly as all the steel ones - just no rust streaks.

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5 hours ago, Sail4beer said:


Who could ever get mad at this guy and he never even heard of Brent Swine!

 

I mean I remembered vaguely something about him. I came on here for a minute a few years ago (?) and browsed the forums and it seemed like he was in half the threads being an ass... Something about his home-brew design for steelies being the Lord's work or something. But I never really got it at the time.

 

I appreciate the summary (summaries)!

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33 minutes ago, Breamerly said:

Stainless can't rust! It's the perfect material!

It is and doesn't rust in the presence of oxygen. But as far as material for a BS boat, it would only be appropriate to scrap it immediately and save some poor sod having his hand chopped off as the Centerline companionway hatch swings in when broaching, hitting a rock formation, beaching or being hit by a bulk carrier amd inverting to 183 degrees. Although it is high grade and surgical quality, it is useless in the hands of BS boat builders...

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25 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

It is and doesn't rust in the presence of oxygen. But as far as material for a BS boat, it would only be appropriate to scrap it immediately and save some poor sod having his hand chopped off as the Centerline companionway hatch swings in when broaching, hitting a rock formation, beaching or being hit by a bulk carrier amd inverting to 183 degrees. Although it is high grade and surgical quality, it is useless in the hands of BS boat builders...

Lmao the hatch lol

 

I love it when a young builder discovered a material and just makes everything out of it. Live edge lumber? Great! Live edge siding! Live edge trim! Live edge tables! Live edge toilet seat!

I was being sarcastic about stainless bring 'perfect' but yeah.

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2 hours ago, Breamerly said:

I mean I remembered vaguely something about him. I came on here for a minute a few years ago (?) and browsed the forums and it seemed like he was in half the threads being an ass... Something about his home-brew design for steelies being the Lord's work or something. But I never really got it at the time.

 

I appreciate the summary (summaries)!

Don't bring Doug Lord into this.

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17 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

We have FKT for our steel boat building needs

EKT = Electro Kardio Tech?

euye... sailors and their acronyms

17 hours ago, slap said:

You might want to go over to boatdesign.net

That forum is complete waste of time "moderated" if anyone dare use that word for the free for all brawling that accompanies any discussion on anything. The Brent thread I read there had what 50 pages and one post that actually detailed why a lack of structure was not a great design from an engineering perspective.

I can see this forum is going to be a case of wading through the yahooos to find some real substance. not a problem, but if thats whats meant by "big kids play" then I am left underwhelmed )

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1 hour ago, Temptation said:

I can see this forum is going to be a case of wading through the yahooos to find some real substance. not a problem, but if thats whats meant by "big kids play" then I am left underwhelmed )

Why put youselfe throuh thet?  And foire the moeste parte, we licke teh yahooos hearre.  The feelleng est muchualle.  Enjoye!               :)

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4 hours ago, Temptation said:

EKT = Electro Kardio Tech?

euye... sailors and their acronyms

That forum is complete waste of time "moderated" if anyone dare use that word for the free for all brawling that accompanies any discussion on anything. The Brent thread I read there had what 50 pages and one post that actually detailed why a lack of structure was not a great design from an engineering perspective.

I can see this forum is going to be a case of wading through the yahooos to find some real substance. not a problem, but if thats whats meant by "big kids play" then I am left underwhelmed )

Swain's reputation is well deserved.

What's your project?

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5 hours ago, Temptation said:

...   ...

I can see this forum is going to be a case of wading through the yahooos to find some real substance. not a problem, but if thats whats meant by "big kids play" then I am left underwhelmed )

Likewise, I'm sure.

So far you haven't shown the ability to do anything but kvetch.

And that's the closest you come to real sailor talk, too

- DSK

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56 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Likewise, I'm sure.

So far you haven't shown the ability to do anything but kvetch.

And that's the closest you come to real sailor talk, too

- DSK

You speklled Ketch wrong )

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3 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

This Temp fellow reminds me of Lord Dubin minus the sense of humor.   :lol:

Nah, the Dubinator was funny, in that fading-glories-of-the-Empire kinda way. And he had some staying power. I give Tempie 3 days or less. He is just a whiny dumbass with a hard-on for steel boats. Probably compensating for something.

FB- Doug

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3 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

This Temp fellow reminds me of Lord Dubin minus the sense of humor.   :lol:

Here’s a joke For this Temp fellow about ‘sex and travel’. Fuck Off.

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