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Bilge drain tubing


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1 1/8” cockpit drain tube sprung a leak. A good look showed that most is past its prime.

The outer arms are from cockpit drains, the center is outlet from manual bilge pump.

T connects to exit through the transom, a foot or so above the waterline.

Old tubing is some sort of glossy rubber / plastic with a metal coil w/ thin wall and VERY flexible.

Great flexibility is not required for the actual runs as they are pretty straight, but is useful for installation / maintenance / etc.

Newer short splice at one end, while nice, has very little flexibility and I’m afraid would prob be a chore to wrestle it into position if I replaced all w this kind of tubing.

What kind of tubing do you use / recommend, where do you get it, and how much do you pay for it?

Thanks,

Gabe

FA5F1A3B-3693-41A5-BDDD-AC22D0D19863.jpeg

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 In this application I would use trident marine series 149 bilge/live-well hose.  It’s reasonably flexible and smooth, and is a well-made hose. Install it with new hose clamps and don’t buy the cheap ones (clamps or hose)

11/8” is $3.75 per foot at Hamilton marine

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One thing I learned in a big way on a couple recent projects: with hose/tubing there's a very real trade-off between durability and ease of installation.

I redid my scuppers and used the heaviest-duty wet exhaust rated super-duper-duty metal jacketed marine shit I could find... And stabbed myself in the fucking hand trying to trim it in place, on top of spending a whole afternoon on my back, covered in lube and spit trying to get it onto the fittings.

If both ends are well above the waterline I personally would use the softest, easiest to work with stuff you can find. At most, something like a smooth walled Shields live-well hose or the trident equivalent suggested by @jasonsansfleece above. But remember that anything rated for below-waterline (the Shields hoses all specify whether they are or not) will be significantly more durable than you probablyneed, and in turn more difficult to cut/fit/bend. If nothing else, take one of your fittings to the store and get a sense for how fucked it will be to work with before you buy. 

It might seem like why not do it triple double extra bulletproof, but remember that extra time spent on this project is others left un-done.

 

(When you are fitting it a bottle of olive oil, a little tub of KY, and a heat gun will be your friend)

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2 hours ago, Breamerly said:

One thing I learned in a big way on a couple recent projects: with hose/tubing there's a very real trade-off between durability and ease of installation.

You are a man of rare taste and discernment (:-)

Another thing I ran into is that supply chains seem to be somewhat disrupted.

I ended up going with a solution that is ... ahem ... “expeditious” to get me in the water for the 2 1/2 months we have remaining around here.

I plan to source and re-do the install before next year, but at least, for now, it’s all brand new and secure.

Also, I know exactly what I will need and how to install it.

(Related question: my boat originally had a gas motor but is now diesel. Do I still need a blower motor and vent tubes to suck fumes from the bilge like one a gasoline motor, or can I just chuck all that?)

 

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5 minutes ago, Gabe_nyc said:

You are a man of rare taste and discernment (:-)

Another thing I ran into is that supply chains seem to be somewhat disrupted.

I ended up going with a solution that is ... ahem ... “expeditious” to get me in the water for the 2 1/2 months we have remaining around here.

I plan to source and re-do the install before next year, but at least, for now, it’s all brand new and secure.

Also, I know exactly what I will need and how to install it.

(Related question: my boat originally had a gas motor but is now diesel. Do I still need a blower motor and vent tubes to suck fumes from the bilge like one a gasoline motor, or can I just chuck all that?)

 

Thanks? I think?

There's definitely a thing that is real that is doing a project once, start-to-finish, and realizing 2/3 of the way through that you've managed to do a just-alright job, and that what will ultimately end up happening, hopefully, is that in a couple of years you'll end up re-doing it and applying the knowledge you gained the first time to do an A++ job. I guess that's the Zen of the whole thing.

As to the blower, I believe that's correct, but have no fucking idea what I'm talking about. While you're down there though you should have your tank professionally cleaned or just replace the fucker and also do all new belts, filters, and do-dads. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Breamerly said:

While you're down there though you should have your tank professionally cleaned or just replace the fucker and also do all new belts, filters, and do-dads. 

Many years ago I used to ride BMW motorcycles and the tanks were held in place by a single toggle and a couple of hoses but here ...

(See my other thread about removing the old water heater. Not much room within and lousy access.)

Is there a way to have it cleaned while it’s still inside and plumbed?

I checked it externally and all is sound, but you’re talking about the inside and I have no idea about that.

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1 hour ago, Gabe_nyc said:

Many years ago I used to ride BMW motorcycles and the tanks were held in place by a single toggle and a couple of hoses but here ...

(See my other thread about removing the old water heater. Not much room within and lousy access.)

Is there a way to have it cleaned while it’s still inside and plumbed?

I checked it externally and all is sound, but you’re talking about the inside and I have no idea about that.

I am really outside my depth here - was just recommending based on what I've heard others say, which is that sludge/debris in fixed fuel tanks is awful. Based on you being chest-deep in the lazarette, I just figured it might be worth considering, especially if you figure the engine to be a piece of life-safety equipment and (as it sounds) this engine is relatively new to you.

That said, yes. There are marine fuel tank cleaning services at most major ports, is my impression. There certainly are here in Seattle at the working boathaven, and google shows similar elsewhere. I assume it's some sort of vaccuum/shoot-it-out-with-high-pressure-cleaner/repeat operation.

Also so long as you're chest-deep in the lazzie and thinking about it, might be worth thinking critically about the fuel filtration, and whether it's up to snuff. Maybe if your tank looks relatively clean, you could just swap filters/upgrade the filtration setup as needed. And pull the injectors and have them cleaned! And repaint the engine! And and and.

See? This is what you get when you ask an amateur!

 

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9 minutes ago, Breamerly said:

See? This is what you get when you ask an amateur!

As I told the better half yesterday, when it comes to boats I know too much but not enough (i.e. when is good enough, good enough) (:-)

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Just now, Gabe_nyc said:

 I know too much **

** before anybody gets upset, I didn’t mean that I know “too much” as in I can teach Bob Perry a thing or two.

Rather, what I meant is that I now know a lot about kind of tubing does NOT work with what kind of fittings etc, information which I would gladly never have learned, but am a little more sketchy about what DOES WORK with what else, etc ...

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On 7/21/2020 at 2:16 AM, Gabe_nyc said:

1 1/8” cockpit drain tube sprung a leak. A good look showed that most is past its prime.

The outer arms are from cockpit drains, the center is outlet from manual bilge pump.

T connects to exit through the transom, a foot or so above the waterline.

Old tubing is some sort of glossy rubber / plastic with a metal coil w/ thin wall and VERY flexible.

Great flexibility is not required for the actual runs as they are pretty straight, but is useful for installation / maintenance / etc.

Newer short splice at one end, while nice, has very little flexibility and I’m afraid would prob be a chore to wrestle it into position if I replaced all w this kind of tubing.

What kind of tubing do you use / recommend, where do you get it, and how much do you pay for it?

Thanks,

Gabe

FA5F1A3B-3693-41A5-BDDD-AC22D0D19863.jpeg

A. Verify your manual bilge pump works! Pumps out (as intended) or pumps in?  A certain OD class boat I owned had plumbing backwards. One of the other 4 in my club had the same issue when we checked.

B. Consider a seperate pump through hull not connected  to your cockpit.

 

 

 

 

 

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53 minutes ago, warbird said:

A. Verify your manual bilge pump works! Pumps out (as intended) or pumps in? 

Brand new pump. (That’s sort of how this whole thing got started)

55 minutes ago, warbird said:

B. Consider a seperate pump through hull not connected  to your cockpit.

Funny you should mention that: it’s not easy to see, but the right arm in the pic has a T fitting that’s 1 1/2” w a 1/2” connection in the middle. New versions of this fitting were not in stock at any of my locals. The 1/2” line was from an aux electric bilge pump.

My cockpit has a built-in cooler with a separate 1/2” drain but I never use this.

I “stole” the thru-hull for the cooler and ran the aux pump through it, separate from everything else. 

So, accidentally, because of crappy supply chains, I did exactly what you suggest (:-)

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Recently, I have been using radiator hoses in many boating applications.

i especially love Using the prebent  hoses For offset throughhulls. 
 

so what if the new cockpit drain hose costs $13??  Radiator hoses are so much better than the typical available hoses and the prebent hoses don’t have a flat spot at the Bend.

I take the old hose to the auto parts store, behind my way into the back right on, and pick out a prebent hose that is shaped  as close to just like my piece of junk hose as they have. 
$25 to really lace both drain hoses on a forty year old Catalina 27 is just fine with me 
the radiator hose might last forever 

 

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On 7/25/2020 at 11:25 AM, Breamerly said:

One thing I learned in a big way on a couple recent projects: with hose/tubing there's a very real trade-off between durability and ease of installation.

(When you are fitting it a bottle of olive oil, a little tub of KY, and a heat gun will be your friend)

I've found that a spritz of WD40 is the best lube for tight hose.

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11 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Recently, I have been using radiator hoses in many boating applications.

i especially love Using the prebent  hoses For offset throughhulls. 
 

so what if the new cockpit drain hose costs $13??  Radiator hoses are so much better than the typical available hoses and the prebent hoses don’t have a flat spot at the Bend.

I take the old hose to the auto parts store, behind my way into the back right on, and pick out a prebent hose that is shaped  as close to just like my piece of junk hose as they have. 
$25 to really lace both drain hoses on a forty year old Catalina 27 is just fine with me 
the radiator hose might last forever 

 

Again with the fitting it though. Just about found Christ last time, it was that tight.

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13 hours ago, Breamerly said:

Again with the fitting it though. Just about found Christ last time, it was that tight.

The radiator tubes I have  bought have been super easy to slide over the through hulls. 
The first one I did was a 23” long 1   1/2” cockpit drain in the back of a J-22. .... it slipped  right on


then I did a couple pre-curved 1 1/2” hoses in the back of a Catalina 30. I was lying on my side in the  aft berth reaching through a little opening with my hands almost as far out as I could reach ... 

It was not a position where, even had I needed to do so, I could not have applied much force. It was soooooooo easy. As I did it I was considering how the moment was life changing. I am never again going to endure one of those knuckle busting sweat dripping slicing myself up on the adjacent bulkheads hose installation fights.

in fact, my customer won too.  the $25 for the two short chunks of hose was certainly less than the amount I would have charged for the old fashioned hose fight. 

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14 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

The radiator tubes I have  bought have been super easy to slide over the through hulls. 
The first one I did was a 23” long 1   1/2” cockpit drain in the back of a J-22. .... it slipped  right on


then I did a couple pre-curved 1 1/2” hoses in the back of a Catalina 30. I was lying on my side in the  aft berth reaching through a little opening with my hands almost as far out as I could reach ... 

It was not a position where, even had I needed to do so, I could not have applied much force. It was soooooooo easy. As I did it I was considering how the moment was life changing. I am never again going to endure one of those knuckle busting sweat dripping slicing myself up on the adjacent bulkheads hose installation fights.

in fact, my customer won too.  the $25 for the two short chunks of hose was certainly less than the amount I would have charged for the old fashioned hose fight. 

Your male pieces must have been a touch small. Or mine a touch big (heh heh).

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