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Anybody out there know anything about the X-119 built by X-Yachts in Denmark?  I'm thinking of buying one.

I've heard that they have a welded steel frame bonded into the hull to handle keel loads.  I'm worried that on a 30 year old boat there will be corrosion problems.

Any info would be welcome

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I don't have time right now but try doing a search in this forum for the x-119 as I remember it being discussed including the grid you asked about. I sailed and raced on one years ago and liked it, remember it being tweaky and well constructed.

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Here's a thread.  I've been looking at them too.   Have tried getting some specifics about the one on Seattle Craigslist but no luck- don't think he really wants to sell- has been advertised for years.  And at any rate its in tough shape.  When I last looked at it the viewing window for the keel had fallen out (it's on the hard).  I could see water damage from leaky windows and the keel grid was needing help.    

 

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9 hours ago, sailor bum said:

Anybody out there know anything about the X-119 built by X-Yachts in Denmark?  I'm thinking of buying one.

I've heard that they have a welded steel frame bonded into the hull to handle keel loads.  I'm worried that on a 30 year old boat there will be corrosion problems.

Any info would be welcome

You can find the brochure for the X-119 here: https://3brefc126v633i9r4zk9q3p5-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/X-119-brochure.pdf

There is a X-yacht owners club with a large technical library where I am sure you can get a lot answers: https://x-yachtsowners.co.uk/

 

 

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Every boat I've ever heard of with a steel grid has eventually had to have it replaced. Some like old Cals just had a beam or a small structure but those X-boats have a big and elaborate one that would be a huge job to replace.

I wouldn't go near one.

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Every boat I've ever heard of with a steel grid has eventually had to have it replaced.  

I wouldn't go near one.

But of course this is from an ignorant data source with the quality of knowledge you would expect to get on an anonymous  free of charge website, so the opinion is worth as much, and the buyer shouldn't be concerned following  even a most perfunctory survey. 

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On 7/23/2020 at 8:18 PM, Cristoforo said:

But of course this is from an ignorant data source with the quality of knowledge you would expect to get on an anonymous  free of charge website, so the opinion is worth as much, and the buyer shouldn't be concerned following  even a most perfunctory survey. 

I agree, I have not heard of a single X-Yacht who had their integral keel grid replaced (sure there must be some) , they had used this since 1980 (650 built since). mine was built in 1985 and showed no sign of coming apart from the hull, not even rust, they were if I recall correctly hot galvanized and simply glassed into the hull. A 3/4 tonner had a bumpy ride from Fl to Chicago had the forward end cracked from the hull however this was simply remedied. Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned the windows, beware they will all leak and needs to be rebedded, not an easy task to make it last. Butyl tape came to my rescue.

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The keels themselves were a bigger problem with the 119s, because they were composite, cast iron fin and lead bulb which creates several problems.  But the internal grid is sound as far as I know.  Do a thorough moisture test during the survey.  The tin rig is getting on in life by now, and although they were tree trunks, have a long look there, also.

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On 7/23/2020 at 8:18 PM, Cristoforo said:

But of course this is from an ignorant data source with the quality of knowledge you would expect to get on an anonymous  free of charge website, so the opinion is worth as much, and the buyer shouldn't be concerned following  even a most perfunctory survey. 

Crashdog,

Out of curiosity, what on earth would cause lead and cast iron keels create any problems, this has been used for 30 years by many builders?

Pehr

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Slug,  Thanks for the tip on the rudder post and bearings.  I'll be sure to have the surveyor pull the rudder and check.  She has a tiller, not a wheel so this should be relatively easy.

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I redid the rudder bearing on an x boat with an aluminum post.  Jeffa has bearings for many of the x boats.  Be very careful with wiring in and around the binnacle. The post on my boat had no signs of corrosion or wear

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1 hour ago, gkny said:

I redid the rudder bearing on an x boat with an aluminum post.  Jeffa has bearings for many of the x boats.  Be very careful with wiring in and around the binnacle. The post on my boat had no signs of corrosion or wear

Typically the damage is caused by copper oxide antifoul 

 

do not use copper oxide antifoul on boats with underwater or wet aluminum

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  • 6 months later...
On 7/29/2020 at 3:27 PM, Pehrst said:

Crashdog,

Out of curiosity, what on earth would cause lead and cast iron keels create any problems, this has been used for 30 years by many builders?

Pehr

Cast iron fin and a lead bulb?  Would that create corrosion due to mixed metals?  Pehr, do you have any corrosion on the steel fin?  Does it require regular maintenance to keep the corrosion on the fin low (like I need to do on my Jeanneau!?!)

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On 7/23/2020 at 9:56 AM, SloopJonB said:

Every boat I've ever heard of with a steel grid has eventually had to have it replaced. Some like old Cals just had a beam or a small structure but those X-boats have a big and elaborate one that would be a huge job to replace.

I wouldn't go near one.

Thanks for reviving this old thread which has one of the dumbest, false, and most ignorant claims ever made in the history of boats by a very dumb Sloopy. And there have been many. 

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On 7/22/2020 at 11:26 PM, sailor bum said:

Anybody out there know anything about the X-119 built by X-Yachts in Denmark?  I'm thinking of buying one.

I've heard that they have a welded steel frame bonded into the hull to handle keel loads.  I'm worried that on a 30 year old boat there will be corrosion problems.

Any info would be welcome

wondering which one you are looking at. I sold mine in 2000 and it went to TX... if that's the one, it's a very unique 119. The boats are incredibly well built. How it has held up would have more to do with the current owner and how they've maintained it. Feel free to PM me if you want more info. 

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On 7/29/2020 at 3:39 PM, slug zitski said:

X- yachts uses Jeffa aluminum  rudder stocks and aluminum self aligning bearings 

pull the rudder and inspect at survey 

a new rudder  and bearing is a good way to tear up ten grand

I’d be surprised to find a seller willing to let you pull the rudder at survey. It’s not a small job on a bigger boat, depending  on how difficult it is to access the quadrant &  autopilot ram. And it has to hang in the slings the whole time, tying up the yard’s lift. 

If it were mine, I’d only agree to that after an otherwise satisfactory survey, and the buyer would need to pay the whole cost with a contractor/yard of my choosing.

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1 hour ago, Salona said:

I’d be surprised to find a seller willing to let you pull the rudder at survey. It’s not a small job on a bigger boat, depending  on how difficult it is to access the quadrant &  autopilot ram. And it has to hang in the slings the whole time, tying up the yard’s lift. 

If it were mine, I’d only agree to that after an otherwise satisfactory survey, and the buyer would need to pay the whole cost with a contractor/yard of my choosing.

The shipyard pulls the rudder 

the surveyor inspects it 

the buyer pays 

if the owner fails to agree,  immediately deduct 10 grand  or whatever it costs for a new rudder and lower bearing   from the asking price 

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18 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

The shipyard pulls the rudder 

the surveyor inspects it 

if the owner fails to agree,  immediately deduct 10 grand  or whatever it costs for a new rudder and lower bearing   from the asking price 

Sellers market right now....  good luck with that approach.  Unless there’s good cause to suspect a problem, I’m not not paying 2k and taking the boat off the market for 3 weeks waiting for the yard to do the work,  just for the novice buyer to change his mind anyway. 

A more realistic approach is to escrow 8k on the price and let the buyer buyer handle the rudder inspection, within a reasonable timeframe, say 2 weeks. It will be a good lesson for him in how much even simple boat projects cost... 
 

But when potential buyers start making expensive demands, that’s usually a sign they’re going to be unreasonable about something and the deal will fall through anyway.

 

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2 hours ago, Salona said:

Sellers market right now....  good luck with that approach.  Unless there’s good cause to suspect a problem, I’m not not paying 2k and taking the boat off the market for 3 weeks waiting for the yard to do the work,  just for the novice buyer to change his mind anyway. 

A more realistic approach is to escrow 8k on the price and let the buyer buyer handle the rudder inspection, within a reasonable timeframe, say 2 weeks. It will be a good lesson for him in how much even simple boat projects cost... 
 

But when potential buyers start making expensive demands, that’s usually a sign they’re going to be unreasonable about something and the deal will fall through anyway.

 

It’s possible the boat has a maintenance log proving that the rudder has been removed  for inspection every second year 

 

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If you got a 119 and put a half decent keel on it I think it would be very very fast.  As it is the hull shape is good, rig is heavy but fine, construction quite good.  That keel though has all the drawbacks of both fin and bulb keels with few of the benefits of either.

 

If you put the design into a vpp such as ORC it says they are quicker than most phrf fleets would have you believe.

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2 hours ago, Schnick said:

If you got a 119 and put a half decent keel on it I think it would be very very fast.  As it is the hull shape is good, rig is heavy but fine, construction quite good.  That keel though has all the drawbacks of both fin and bulb keels with few of the benefits of either.

 

If you put the design into a vpp such as ORC it says they are quicker than most phrf fleets would have you believe.

Agree about the keel.  In defense of Jeppesen, this was an early days bulb keel.  Could use more draft and shorter fin chord.  Bulb nose is too blunt (although not terrible like some of that era) and thickness too far forward.  Max thickness should be at trailing edge of the fin.  Below is what is purported to be an X-119 keel.

As to your last point, I agree ORC (or at least ORC Club) rates them much faster than PHRF.  But I would suggest that the X-119 may be a design that blows up the ORC formulae.

Years ago when ORC Club was gaining traction here, I was on an X-119 in a regatta racing ORC with an O30 in our div.  If we were racing PHRF, we would have owed them about 12 sec/mile.  So I figured we would owe them roughly 1 minute in each race.  Looking at the result later, it turned out we owed them over 5 minutes in each race under ORC.  W/L in about 8-12 kts.

Now the X-119 probably should have owed more than 1 minute to an O30 - but 5+ minutes?

x-keel.jpg

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I know a lot about X-Yachts. I have sailed on very successful the X-1 ton "Delicate Balance" out of Seattle and then to a Vancouver owner (the following owner had it redone and it resides in VRC now). An X-402, an X-372 and the very successful Rick Hatch's X-342 bought from new. We won VARC boat of the year. The first X-119 was in North America was out Seattle which was tall rig called "Cassia Pomodoro"  (killer tomato as it bright red!). A monster in light wind. The Canadian dealer, Oakville Yacht Outfitters, had one and raced it on the lakes. Now there are now 3 X-119's in the Vancouver area. And that said the: X-119 was never designed for any particular rating system. They are the big sister of the very successful one designs of X-79 and the X-99 were a huge one-design class all over Europe, the Med and Scandinavia. The boats were built like brick shit houses as the quality and technolgy was there. Compared to lesser boats. I've never heard any issues with the hot-dipped galvanized grids as it's a very stiff structure - so why not? No problem with keel set up and actually it keeps the lead low into the keel structure. X-Yachts used keel bulbs way before many builders and often for a custom build compared to X-Yachts production boats. Niels Jeppesen (and his brother Lars) are geniuses IMHO. Owning an X-Yachts is something you should be proud of. It costs you of course against lesser Bunters and the ilk you have something there.    

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Just now, Maxx Baqustae said:

I know a lot about X-Yachts. I have sailed on very successful the X-1 ton "Delicate Balance" out of Seattle and then to a Vancouver owner (the following owner had it redone and it resides in VRC now). An X-402, an X-372 and the very successful Rick Hatch's X-342 bought from new. We won VARC boat of the year. The first X-119 was in North America was out Seattle which was tall rig called "Cassia Pomodoro"  (killer tomato as it bright red!). A monster in light wind. The Canadian dealer, Oakville Yacht Outfitters, had one and raced it on the lakes. Now there are now 3 X-119's in the Vancouver area. And that said the: X-119 was never designed for any particular rating system. They are the big sister of the very successful one designs of X-79 and the X-99 were a huge one-design class all over Europe, the Med and Scandinavia. The boats were built like brick shit houses as the quality and technolgy was there. Compared to lesser boats. I've never heard any issues with the hot-dipped galvanized grids as it's a very stiff structure - so why not? No problem with keel set up and actually it keeps the lead low into the keel structure. X-Yachts used keel bulbs way before many builders and often for a custom build compared to X-Yachts production boats. Niels Jeppesen (and his brother Lars) are geniuses IMHO. Owning an X-Yachts is something you should be proud of. It costs you of course against lesser Bunters and the ilk you have something there.    

 

_IMG7615 (846x1280) (2).jpg

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1 hour ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

I know a lot about X-Yachts. I have sailed on very successful the X-1 ton "Delicate Balance" out of Seattle and then to a Vancouver owner (the following owner had it redone and it resides in VRC now). An X-402, an X-372 and the very successful Rick Hatch's X-342 bought from new. We won VARC boat of the year. The first X-119 was in North America was out Seattle which was tall rig called "Cassia Pomodoro"  (killer tomato as it bright red!). A monster in light wind. The Canadian dealer, Oakville Yacht Outfitters, had one and raced it on the lakes. Now there are now 3 X-119's in the Vancouver area. And that said the: X-119 was never designed for any particular rating system. They are the big sister of the very successful one designs of X-79 and the X-99 were a huge one-design class all over Europe, the Med and Scandinavia. The boats were built like brick shit houses as the quality and technolgy was there. Compared to lesser boats. I've never heard any issues with the hot-dipped galvanized grids as it's a very stiff structure - so why not? No problem with keel set up and actually it keeps the lead low into the keel structure. X-Yachts used keel bulbs way before many builders and often for a custom build compared to X-Yachts production boats. Niels Jeppesen (and his brother Lars) are geniuses IMHO. Owning an X-Yachts is something you should be proud of. It costs you of course against lesser Bunters and the ilk you have something there.    

Yeah, I was at WIRW when Caccia Pomodoro made her debut.  Destroyed  her division that year - but well sailed too, so there's that.

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On 7/23/2020 at 3:56 PM, SloopJonB said:

Every boat I've ever heard of with a steel grid has eventually had to have it replaced. Some like old Cals just had a beam or a small structure but those X-boats have a big and elaborate one that would be a huge job to replace.

I wouldn't go near one.

The X99s also have a steel grid. But I never heard of any problems with it. Older X99s have oak frame and the will eventually need to be replaced.

But steel is nemas problemas

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35 minutes ago, Jammen said:

The X99s also have a steel grid. But I never heard of any problems with it. Older X99s have oak frame and the will eventually need to be replaced.

But steel is nemas problemas

If you take care of the boat, don’t put it away with wet oily bilges ,  those galvanize steel floors last a long time 

I see 20 year old boats that are still in good shape 

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2 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Yeah, I was at WIRW when Caccia Pomodoro made her debut.  Destroyed  her division that year - but well sailed too, so there's that.

I remember that year, and racing against her and Dick Rose in his Laser 28

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I spent  hours at the Paris boat show on the x119 and x95  when they had just come out. Designer/builder Niels Jeppesen was on hand in the cockpit to answer questions.  Fantastic experience.  The boats are well-conceived and well put together.  Fittings where they need to be and designed to work. Nice joinery and layout below as well.  Since then, maintenance will be a factor in the condition of any of them. If the boat's been maintained and has good sails,  it will sail well. 

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15 hours ago, Ignatius J. Reilly said:

Funny to see this thread .... just the other day I came across an ad on the Seattle Craigslist that I swear has been on there for three or four years.  Really wondered what was up with it ...

image.png.6b01e35c0f2996cd90b444280975c7dc.png

Well...the photo looks like Caccia Pomodoro.  Much like you said - even a few years ago it was noted the ad had been up for years.  Rather brief in any real details, no asking price, and only the single grainy photo.  Hard to generate any response to an ad like that.  Some people have said it's a scam, although I would be interested to know just what the basis of such a scam it might be.

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1 hour ago, 12 metre said:

Well...the photo looks like Caccia Pomodoro.  Much like you said - even a few years ago it was noted the ad had been up for years.  Rather brief in any real details, no asking price, and only the single grainy photo.  Hard to generate any response to an ad like that.  Some people have said it's a scam, although I would be interested to know just what the basis of such a scam it might be.

Sounds like the bloke telling his wife that the boat was for sale and he was doing everything he could to get rid of it.

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On 2/8/2021 at 1:24 PM, Maxx Baqustae said:

 

_IMG7615 (846x1280) (2).jpg

Had some fun times with them when they first got the boat before we moved to HK. Fast and fun. One of the T-shirts I have saved.

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