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Has anyone actually ordered water ballast on a 99?


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There is one in Toronto but I don't know the owner. I spoke to one of the crew and he said the commissioning process was slow due to the water ballast set-up which was the only reason I knew.

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4 hours ago, jackolantern said:

I saw one with a Wheel the other day... looked odd

Does it look as strange as the 97 with a wheel? If it’s not recessed, I imagine it would. 

DB07A0DA-90AA-4EC4-ACF9-8898656388B3.jpeg

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On 7/28/2020 at 8:34 PM, Alaris said:

Does it look as strange as the 97 with a wheel? If it’s not recessed, I imagine it would. 

DB07A0DA-90AA-4EC4-ACF9-8898656388B3.jpeg

The wheel option is recessed on the 99

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/28/2020 at 6:27 AM, danstanford said:

There is one in Toronto but I don't know the owner. I spoke to one of the crew and he said the commissioning process was slow due to the water ballast set-up which was the only reason I knew.

I'm the owner, the ballast pump needed to be below the water line to function properly (wasn't from the factory), and the lines used to open the valves had way too much friction. I believe mine — hull 33 — was only the 2nd with water ballast so I guess they haven't worked out all the kinks yet.

On 7/29/2020 at 3:54 PM, JL92S said:

The wheel option is recessed on the 99

The original concept was to have a recessed wheel, but I guess J/boats decided it was too costly/difficult so one of the first wheel-equipped boats came non-recessed, closer to the 97 wheel, which was way too small for such a beamy boat. The owner of that 99 and myself had a larger diameter wheel custom fitted and recessed. J has since changed the option because other dealers were asking how to do the same.

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4 hours ago, evandinsmore said:

I'm the owner, the ballast pump needed to be below the water line to function properly (wasn't from the factory), and the lines used to open the valves had way too much friction. I believe mine — hull 33 — was only the 2nd with water ballast so I guess they haven't worked out all the kinks yet.

The original concept was to have a recessed wheel, but I guess J/boats decided it was too costly/difficult so one of the first wheel-equipped boats came non-recessed, closer to the 97 wheel, which was way too small for such a beamy boat. The owner of that 99 and myself had a larger diameter wheel custom fitted and recessed. J has since changed the option because other dealers were asking how to do the same.

She sure is pretty!

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19 hours ago, evandinsmore said:

I'm the owner, the ballast pump needed to be below the water line to function properly (wasn't from the factory), and the lines used to open the valves had way too much friction. I believe mine — hull 33 — was only the 2nd with water ballast so I guess they haven't worked out all the kinks yet.

The original concept was to have a recessed wheel, but I guess J/boats decided it was too costly/difficult so one of the first wheel-equipped boats came non-recessed, closer to the 97 wheel, which was way too small for such a beamy boat. The owner of that 99 and myself had a larger diameter wheel custom fitted and recessed. J has since changed the option because other dealers were asking how to do the same.

Mind posting some photos of your wheel setup? I have never seen a photo of a 99 with a wheel. Curious about how much of the water ballast system is visible as well. 

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18 hours ago, Alaris said:

Mind posting some photos of your wheel setup? I have never seen a photo of a 99 with a wheel. Curious about how much of the water ballast system is visible as well. 

Sure, the only tell for the water ballast system are the control lines in the companionway and the vents in the cockpit.

This was the original wheel spec shown in the manual, you can see the similarity to the 97 wheel:

5A34A6D2-8551-4C97-873F-C4BF63B8D331.thumb.jpeg.12db3bf9d638cfeab2abbf3828b57d5c.jpeg

Here’s my wheel install:

F0ED2366-12C6-4A72-A855-764BCC1607E0.thumb.jpeg.2a6903e17aa85b8add05ea1b1cd47926.jpeg
And I believe this is the new stock wheel, after several J dealers were asking to replicate the recessed wheel of the two Toronto boats:

8F5D74B0-4F45-4D37-B9D4-C700999F717A.thumb.jpeg.1b422eb7370ee60555ea8bd0f97ecb1e.jpeg

I still like mine because I have the chartplotter on the pedestal, but this is much better than the original.

Also here’s a diagram of the ballast system:

2EFD7E59-5E56-47F9-BF43-45611AB967D4.thumb.jpeg.36e8b266f8e0c78de6df823332c0a3c5.jpeg

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That looks great! I like yours for the reason you noted (chart plotter) but the J solution is slick as well. I’m a wheel kind of guy, so despite those who protest that the 99 should be tiller steered it looks just right to me with a wheel.

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How does that work with the chart plotter?

I hardly ever stand behind the wheel (only sometimes when going downwind in heavy weather).  I normally sit beside or in front of the wheel.  So doesn't make is more sense to mount the plotter with the screen facing frontwards or make it pivoting so you can turn it around depending where you sit/stand?

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5 hours ago, ZeeZee said:

How does that work with the chart plotter?

I hardly ever stand behind the wheel (only sometimes when going downwind in heavy weather).  I normally sit beside or in front of the wheel.  So doesn't make is more sense to mount the plotter with the screen facing frontwards or make it pivoting so you can turn it around depending where you sit/stand?

Looks like he has at least 3 displays to view....

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5 hours ago, ZeeZee said:

How does that work with the chart plotter?

I hardly ever stand behind the wheel (only sometimes when going downwind in heavy weather).  I normally sit beside or in front of the wheel.  So doesn't make is more sense to mount the plotter with the screen facing frontwards or make it pivoting so you can turn it around depending where you sit/stand?

I mostly use it for charts, choosing waypoints, engaging autopilot, and other brief interactions, so it’s easy access from either side by standing up. I have H5000 and 20/20 displays for viewing instruments/other info.

4 hours ago, Snowden said:

Given that it’s narrower at the bottom, I suspect the chart plotter pedestal version will need some kind of fabric barrier going across the boat to stop lines getting sucked into the recess / wheel. 

Haven’t had a problem so far, and the J version doesn’t fully cover the recess at the sides where there’s more potential for problems. I have accidentally put my foot in the recess and stopped the wheel but that’s user error :)

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That ballast system looks very much like mine.  I have a Mount Gay 30.  Is the pump electric?

What handicapping rules are you racing under, and how do they deal with water ballast?  

My sailboat is ashore this year but I hope to do some racing on Lake Ontario next year.  

Nice looking boat!

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17 hours ago, Jeff F said:

What handicapping rules are you racing under, and how do they deal with water ballast?  

I'm racing under PHRF-LO. I believe water ballast is rated on a case by case basis. In the case of mine, which only really replaces 2 people on the rail, and isn't much use in course racing where there's a lot of tacking, there's no rating hit.

And yes, electric pump and gravity transfer.

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  • 6 months later...

I'm wondering if there might be an issue when double-hand racing with a wheel.  Any feedback on that?

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6 minutes ago, Foxtrot Corpen said:

I'm wondering if there might be an issue when double-hand racing with a wheel.  Any feedback on that?

We double hand our 105 with a wheel, and it works great. I prefer it to a tiller short handed or not. 

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47 minutes ago, Alaris said:

We double hand our 105 with a wheel, and it works great. I prefer it to a tiller short handed or not. 

Thanks for the feedback Alaris.  I like a wheel (a big one) too.  I sailed my first boat (Southern Cross 31) with a tiller, and it worked great for that cruising boat. But I've had wheels for the last 4 boats and much prefer them.  

Our X-34 is under contract.  Looking for the next boat.  Want to cruise with my wife and race with a small crew.   I see La Cinquieme out of St Michaels is racing with a recessed wheel.  Looks good.

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I believe there are only 2 J/99's in the Toronto area on Lake Ontario and they both have wheels. I agree they look good and it would be a very tough choice if I were to order one. To balance the good looks is the problem of getting around the thing for crew or guests getting on board, particularly those who are large or unsteady. 

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6 hours ago, Alaris said:

We double hand our 105 with a wheel, and it works great. I prefer it to a tiller short handed or not. 

How do you do the 'steer with your legs, tail with your hands' thing with a wheel? Can you trim main and wheel steer at the same time?

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9 minutes ago, Snowden said:

How do you do the 'steer with your legs, tail with your hands' thing with a wheel? Can you trim main and wheel steer at the same time?

I can trim main with one arm unless it’s really blowing. But I also jam my foot under the wheel to hold it steady while I lean forward. I’m 6’6” so I can stretch pretty far across the cockpit. 

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We DH our J/111 with a wheel.  The helm is very neutral so we can let go of the wheel for big tugs here and there, or just lean on the wheel for tailing halyards, for example.  We switch off on trimming the main.  The crew trims the main, unless they are busy doing something else.  When we hoist the kite, the driver tails the halyard, then grabs the spin sheet which is laid within reach before the hoist, while leaning against the wheel.  Not so different than trimming with both hands, with the tiller in your hand, something many of us learned as kids.  

I think the biggest challenge on our boat is that it is hard to trim the spin on a winch and drive at the same time.  Mostly not needed DH, but if it is an overnight race, or the crew is up forward doing something like getting the next headsail ready, it is helpful.  It is possible to hold onto the wheel and trim, but not change course and trim at the same time.  

Each has its pro's and con's.  Not sure either is clearly better.  

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11 hours ago, Alaris said:

We double hand our 105 with a wheel, and it works great. I prefer it to a tiller short handed or not. 

Thanks for the feedback Alaris.  I like a wheel (a big one) too.  I sailed my first boat (Southern Cross 31) with a tiller, and it worked great for that cruising boat. But I've had wheels for the last 4 boats and much prefer them.  

Our X-34 is under contract.  Looking for the next boat.  Want to cruise with my wife and race with a small crew.   I see La Cinquieme out of St Michaels is racing with a recessed wheel.  Looks good.

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I spoke to at salesman at North Pt today and learned that the wheel option costs $9.000.  Ouch!  I think I could live with a tiller.

 

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12 hours ago, Foxtrot Corpen said:

I spoke to at salesman at North Pt today and learned that the wheel option costs $9.000.  Ouch!  I think I could live with a tiller.

... or purchase much more reasonably priced Dehler 30 OD; it has been rumored that it can be equipped with a wheel.

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On 2/25/2021 at 11:28 PM, Foxtrot Corpen said:

Thanks for the feedback Alaris.  I like a wheel (a big one) too.  I sailed my first boat (Southern Cross 31) with a tiller, and it worked great for that cruising boat. But I've had wheels for the last 4 boats and much prefer them.  

Our X-34 is under contract.  Looking for the next boat.  Want to cruise with my wife and race with a small crew.   I see La Cinquieme out of St Michaels is racing with a recessed wheel.  Looks good.

I actually sail and race both single and and double handed preferring a tiller.  I found getting around the wheel, especially a big one, is wasted energy.  Plus,  hoisting and jibing the Asym with the tiller between my legs is fairly easy.

On the down side you do need a decent Auto Pilot.  Mine is a below deck AP, with a quadrant on the rudder shaft.  I don't usually activate the AP, but I leave the linkage connected which acts as a damper on the tiller, so I can actually let go for a few seconds without getting in trouble.

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2 minutes ago, captnjoe said:

I actually sail and race both single and and double handed preferring a tiller.  I found getting around the wheel, especially a big one, is wasted energy.  Plus,  hoisting and jibing the Asym with the tiller between my legs is fairly easy.

On the down side you do need a decent Auto Pilot.  Mine is a below deck AP, with a quadrant on the rudder shaft.  I don't usually activate the AP, but I leave the linkage connected which acts as a damper on the tiller, so I can actually let go for a few seconds without getting in trouble.

I had wondered about this. I have only had a wheel pilot and a tiller pilot both of which need to be disconnected when not in use in my experience. Can you comfortably sail with the below deck pilots off but connected all the time? How do you disconnect them when needed? 

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6 hours ago, danstanford said:

I had wondered about this. I have only had a wheel pilot and a tiller pilot both of which need to be disconnected when not in use in my experience. Can you comfortably sail with the below deck pilots off but connected all the time? How do you disconnect them when needed? 

We have an L&S hydraulic ram that remains connected all the time.  It is better connected as it provides a little resistance which makes maneuvers easier.  This was the case on our J/120 and now on our J/111.

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6 hours ago, danstanford said:

I had wondered about this. I have only had a wheel pilot and a tiller pilot both of which need to be disconnected when not in use in my experience. Can you comfortably sail with the below deck pilots off but connected all the time? How do you disconnect them when needed? 

I do turn my AP on, but it is on standby 99% of the time, there are some maneuvers that I need it, usually when hoisting or lowering the main sail while under power.  Eleven season with this unit so far and no problems with it.

When racing with a full crew, I there is a quick disconnect pin in the transom that takes a few seconds to separate the two.  Then I have a Velcro tie down to keep the AP cable away from the quadrant.  The first summer I had the boat, heading into my slip and suddenly the tiller would only turn in one direction.  The Velcro has been there ever since.

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22 hours ago, Roleur said:

We have an L&S hydraulic ram that remains connected all the time.  It is better connected as it provides a little resistance which makes maneuvers easier.  This was the case on our J/120 and now on our J/111.

So the hydraulic ram and pump are connected to a brand name head/computer to create an autopilot? 

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Most pilot computers can drive most drives. Usually just ensuring the computer can supply enuff amperage to drive the drive at max power.

Commonly just 4 wires to a drive: two for the clutch, two (reversing) power supply to the motor

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2 hours ago, danstanford said:

So the hydraulic ram and pump are connected to a brand name head/computer to create an autopilot? 

Yep.  NKE doesn't make autopilot drives.  I don't think B&G does either. 

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On 2/27/2021 at 6:57 PM, Roleur said:

We have an L&S hydraulic ram that remains connected all the time.  It is better connected as it provides a little resistance which makes maneuvers easier.  This was the case on our J/120 and now on our J/111.

Please be aware the the edson quadrant common on Jboats is not meant to be a tiller arm for the autopilot. 

I have seen the quadrant damaged and hardware broken.  Like on your J/120

Use a tiller arm designed to handle the loads.

Another common mistake I see is the ram becomes the rudder stops, limiting the range of movement and damaging the ram.

 

Quattro

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