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Hi all, can't seem to find a rigging manual for the Finn dinghy, need to know how to rig the outhaul, inhaul, downhaul and the lever kicker. Pictures or descriptions would be brilliant, my boat is a 1986 vanguard originally owned and modified by Luca Devoti

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3 hours ago, Alan Crawford said:

Soup to Nuts!

There are a couple different ways to skin a cat, most of which will be dependent on how you received the boat and your personal preferences. All four control lines should come up from the turning blocks on the floor in the bow up through the mast ring, what happens next is then dependent on the purpose.

Outhaul (Green)  should come out the bottom end of the front of the boom, just pull through the deck ring, through the turning blocks, to the block in the middle of the "double ended" system.

Vang (Orange) image is attached, the "purple" is a fixed length that goes through the holes in the side of the mast ring and around the front to serve as what the lever pulls against.

Inhauler (Red) you should have a block or a friction ring somewhere in line with the gooseneck to then go through the lower grommet on the sail and tie off forward

Cunno (Blue) should just come up or down, you can tie it off to the gooseneck or back to the mast ring or even bowline around the grommet.

finnvang.png

finncontrols.png

finncunningham.png

finninhauler.png

finnouthaul.png

finnouthaul.png

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For whatever reason the site doesn't let me PM pictures unless they're already linked (to prevent dick pics?)

There should be a sheave on the top of the boom in the back that has the shackle to attach to the clew, there are one or two cascades inside the boom that have holes drilled in the bottom or the sides of the boom to deadend one end of the line, until the last cascade exits the sheave on the bottom of the front of the boom to go through the deck ring and down to the control lines

finnboom.png

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onepointfivethumbs:

Your drawings are really helpful.   Are you doing these on the fly or pulling them from another source?

Stalled out on my ‘74 Newport rigging.   Getting back on it in a couple weeks.   More pics here with dumb questions to follow.

Flotation:  the transom area I’m told was stuffed with beach balls to ‘lighten up the ends.’   Has a curtain to button down and keep in place.    Ever see that?

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2 hours ago, blunderfull said:

onepointfivethumbs:

Your drawings are really helpful.   Are you doing these on the fly or pulling them from another source?

Stalled out on my ‘74 Newport rigging.   Getting back on it in a couple weeks.   More pics here with dumb questions to follow.

Flotation:  the transom area I’m told was stuffed with beach balls to ‘lighten up the ends.’   Has a curtain to button down and keep in place.    Ever see that?

It's me, fitting that the only software I can figure out is MS Paint :rolleyes:

Some boats either never had any sort of positive flotation in the ends or it ended up failing/rotting/otherwise compromised, beach balls are cheaper than buoys and easier to shove through inspection ports than cubetainers or foam without ripping the deck off. Helps to prevent pic related

_2024677.jpg

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7 hours ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

It's me, fitting that the only software I can figure out is MS Paint :rolleyes:

Some boats either never had any sort of positive flotation in the ends or it ended up failing/rotting/otherwise compromised, beach balls are cheaper than buoys and easier to shove through inspection ports than cubetainers or foam without ripping the deck off. Helps to prevent pic related

_2024677.jpg

Might Opti flotation bags work?  A little tougher than beach balls, but $$$

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1 hour ago, Amati said:

Might Opti flotation bags work?  A little tougher than beach balls, but $$$

Sure, same with the old APS marks. I've also seen insulation board taped together as well as pool noodles stuffed through inspection ports.

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"Starwars" sub deck, in all Vanguard Finns after 1984 mitigated this quite a bit, but not completely.  If you went sailing with out the compasses in place or with the holes that were there for the compasses not taped up, your chances of ending up like this were enhanced.  The bulkheads at the front of the Vanguard Finn cockpit were big enough to keep the bow from flooding in almost all circumstances, but not if there was a 90mm diameter hole in the side deck.  The big blast of air coming out of the port when you death rolled was memorable.

This cat has also lost his rudder.  It's hard to know what went wrong first.

SHC

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Jesting a bit with the beach balls but, poster on this thread,  who shall remain anonymous, told me he had a Newport sink under him.

Never had a boat sink on me.   I am taking this quite seriously now.  Wondering what 1950-‘60’s Finn racing looked like on the Baltic back in days of 100 boat Euros?   
 

Holy hell what a boat.

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4 hours ago, blunderfull said:

Jesting a bit with the beach balls but, poster on this thread,  who shall remain anonymous, told me he had a Newport sink under him.

Never had a boat sink on me.   I am taking this quite seriously now.  Wondering what 1950-‘60’s Finn racing looked like on the Baltic back in days of 100 boat Euros?   
 

Holy hell what a boat.

There are still 100+ boat Euros...

Elvstrom and ilk were hard core dudes in the days of wooden ships and iron men, wedge vangs, pipe travelers, weight vests and no hiking straps :blink:.

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5 hours ago, blunderfull said:

Kiel Week 1971-72.   Notes from OP say only “1-2” masts and the rest of fleet wood.

 

Speaking of masts:   what’s Peter Quigley up to these days?

Should read:  “...1-2 alum masts...rest wood.”

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2 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

Need a pull-up rudder setup.   Anyone use the  Suntouch gear?  Ideas for self-made?

https://www.suntouched.co.uk/suntouchedsailboats_004.htm

sey huntouched is the go to supplier for all things finns. There is a US supplier dinghyracingusa that you can check with.  

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2 hours ago, blunderfull said:

Need a lifting rudder setup.   Anyone use the  Suntouched gear?  Ideas for self-made?   Not in the budget for new Devoti gear.

https://www.suntouched.co.uk/suntouchedsailboats_004.htm

I thought I saw somebody in the UK convert an existing rudder by cutting the blade in half and building new cheek pieces...I always thought it introduced more problems than it solves but ymmv.

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18 minutes ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

I thought I saw somebody in the UK convert an existing rudder by cutting the blade in half and building new cheek pieces...I always thought it introduced more problems than it solves but ymmv.

Yea, need to see one that works before making any cuts.   New rudders ~$750+ in cf.

I only need this tricked out so I can tip hull on side and get under PCH bridge.  Once under bridge I have to get thru rocks/old piling where Reuben Lee was moored.

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Just added a 2007 Devoti to my "dust collector" collection.... so called because we're in strict lockdown....I can't even go and pick up the new purchase, let alone sail it. But fingers crossed it'll get wet as Spring kicks in and people behave responsibly....So definitely an "armchair admiral" for a few weeks yet!! But I can still work on the fitness!!!

 

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44 minutes ago, Couta said:

Just added a 2007 Devoti to my "dust collector" collection.... so called because we're in strict lockdown....I can't even go and pick up the new purchase, let alone sail it. But fingers crossed it'll get wet as Spring kicks in and people behave responsibly....So definitely an "armchair admiral" for a few weeks yet!! But I can still work on the fitness!!!

 

Congrats! Are you still quarantined to your respective states in Oz? I know Phil has been working hard to keep something going.

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11 minutes ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

Congrats! Are you still quarantined to your respective states in Oz? I know Phil has been working hard to keep something going.

Yeah Pencil is in QLD and I'm in Victoria...and our borders are closed ...he's a great mate (we go right back thru various classes) and has been at me for years to get serious about the Finn...I did a season in them in a borrowed boat he arranged before he moved his family north - he's built his local fleet from 3 boats to ~20 in just a few seasons (he just ran a state champs with 34 entries!!)- now he says it's my turn to revitalise our local lot. It's a bit hard when we are limited to just 5km of home (strict) and only beyond that with written permission...and an 8pm -5am curfew...and obviously no sailing. So yeah, we're super strict, but the virus numbers are dropping and there's a good chance we'll get together for our Nationals in Sydney in November....

How do you know Phil?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Couta said:

Yeah Pencil is in QLD and I'm in Victoria...and our borders are closed ...he's a great mate (we go right back thru various classes) and has been at me for years to get serious about the Finn...I did a season in them in a borrowed boat he arranged before he moved his family north - he's built his local fleet from 3 boats to ~20 in just a few seasons (he just ran a state champs with 34 entries!!)- now he says it's my turn to revitalise our local lot. It's a bit hard when we are limited to just 5km of home (strict) and only beyond that with written permission...and an 8pm -5am curfew...and obviously no sailing. So yeah, we're super strict, but the virus numbers are dropping and there's a good chance we'll get together for our Nationals in Sydney in November....

How do you know Phil?

 

 

He runs the AUS Finn FB page and we chatted when I was thinking about going to FGC last year.

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On 8/7/2020 at 4:40 PM, GeorgeT415 said:

Hi all, can't seem to find a rigging manual for the Finn dinghy, need to know how to rig the outhaul, inhaul, downhaul and the lever kicker. Pictures or descriptions would be brilliant, my boat is a 1986 vanguard originally owned and modified by Luca Devoti

Is that the boat he modified and made the first Devoti mould from?  Was at my sailing club in Germany for a bit if so. 

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Working off existing holes in floor, it appears that piece of oak attached thru cockpit wall will anchor in stringer and keep floor down.   Four more screws go directly into middle two stringers near traveler post.

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  • 2 weeks later...
15 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

The Good Books.

 

F42A8DE9-7A14-4635-884C-3B378337AD8D.jpeg

I have the New Testament on the right. Had it pretty memorized when I was a kid. It is still in a drawer beside my bed. 

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37 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

I have the New Testament on the right. Had it pretty memorized when I was a kid. It is still in a drawer beside my bed. 

Yea, mine are always around.  Helps when reading ‘FINNatics.’   Trippy how spot-on his takes were.

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On 8/8/2020 at 1:47 PM, onepointfivethumbs said:

For whatever reason the site doesn't let me PM pictures unless they're already linked (to prevent dick pics?)

There should be a sheave on the top of the boom in the back that has the shackle to attach to the clew, there are one or two cascades inside the boom that have holes drilled in the bottom or the sides of the boom to deadend one end of the line, until the last cascade exits the sheave on the bottom of the front of the boom to go through the deck ring and down to the control lines

finnboom.png

Stuck here.   The line connecting the two internal blocks is broken/undone.  Ideas on how to run new line?   We’re talking 1990’s Needlespar boom.

 

E3420276-9FD8-4351-9AA4-1E7288E01581.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

Stuck here.   The line connecting the two internal blocks is broken/undone.  Ideas on how to run new line?   We’re talking 1990’s Needlespar boom.

 

E3420276-9FD8-4351-9AA4-1E7288E01581.jpeg

coat hanger bent into an inverted "j" stuck through the hole and a lot of patience

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13 minutes ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

coat hanger bent into an inverted "j" stuck through the hole and a lot of patience

Thks.   Playing around with that right now.  

Heathen who came up with this on one piece extruded section.

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6 hours ago, blunderfull said:

Thks.   Playing around with that right now.  

Heathen who came up with this on one piece extruded section.

When I've built cascading outhauls in a boom I anchored them on the forward end of the boom. That way you can always get to the dead ends if you need to replace the line. Feed a new line in from the forward end through the boom out the aft end. Then put it through the bullet block and feed it back through to the forward end of the boom. If it's the line that goes into the cleat, feed it into the cleat.  Then anchor the other end in a knot or bowline on the forward end. 

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18 hours ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

coat hanger bent into an inverted "j" stuck through the hole and a lot of patience

no. Look at the diagram that 1.5thumb did. You put lines through the holes the boom , pull to the aft end of the boom. Attach to the blocks according to the diagram then pull the 2 attachment lines back through their respective holes then tie a knot on each and cut extra line off.

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48 minutes ago, surf nazi said:

no. Look at the diagram that 1.5thumb did. You put lines through the holes the boom , pull to the aft end of the boom. Attach to the blocks according to the diagram then pull the 2 attachment lines back through their respective holes then tie a knot on each and cut extra line off.

1.5’s looks good.   If this gets it done so be it.

At first glance this outhaul setup seems needlessly tricked out.   As in,  where’s the cut-away to access the interior?  Looks a harder job than it prolly is.

Total anarchy when several people staring at this boat and each has his own ‘let’s do this first’ bit.

We pried the floorboard up and I was expecting wood stringers?  Not so, just glassed.   Might go over the old screw holes with some glass to tidy that up.

 

C2600B87-FCBC-4D07-B970-76D78D99BE8E.jpeg

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10 hours ago, blunderfull said:

Looks a harder job than it prolly 

 

 

This.

About an hour to fish back/forth with 14ga shielded copper wire.  Spin the boom around (bottom up / sideways)while pushing thru as wire hangs up on rivets and vang bolt.

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9 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

This.

About an hour to fish back/forth with 14ga shielded copper wire.  Spin the boom around (bottom up / sideways)while pushing thru as wire hangs up on rivets and vang bolt.

Are you doing that San Diego Finn event on the 12-13?

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6 minutes ago, WCB said:

Are you doing that San Diego Finn event on the 12-13?

That might work.  Old boat, needs load of work but gettin’ crazy sitting around making lists and fiddling with bits/pieces.

I’ll give it a shot.  

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4 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

That might work.  Old boat, needs load of work but gettin’ crazy sitting around making lists and fiddling with bits/pieces.

I’ll give it a shot.  

I have been trying to convince my wife that a drive to San Diego for a Finn regatta is a good idea.  So far no dice.  We're hosting an event here that weekend which makes it awkward.

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26 minutes ago, WCB said:

I have been trying to convince my wife that a drive to San Diego for a Finn regatta is a good idea.  So far no dice.  We're hosting an event here that weekend which makes it awkward.

Temps cooling down.  Primo racing weather.

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12 hours ago, blunderfull said:

That might work.  Old boat, needs load of work but gettin’ crazy sitting around making lists and fiddling with bits/pieces.

I’ll give it a shot.  

You should definitely go. You can get all your answers and your boat rigged in a day. Everyone there is very helpful and encouraging. Much better and faster learning curve than typing on the interweb.

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3 hours ago, surf nazi said:

You should definitely go. You can get all your answers and your boat rigged in a day. Everyone there is very helpful and encouraging. Much better and faster learning curve than typing on the interweb.

To be sure - I’ll be there.   You guys are really helping this along.  Be cool to hang in the yard and ck rigging and such and get out on the water.

 

SN:  do you remember color of 1970’s Newport Finns?   Only have b/w for reference.

Met Hank @ Baxter & Cicero.  He was kind enough to show me Finn photos, some gear etc.   Shout out to Mike Dorgan who hooked me up with Henry, who I spoke with about this boat and so forth.   It was a good day!

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5 hours ago, blunderfull said:

Ok.   Registered.

 

I may be sending a friend with a Finn if it all works out in the next day or two.

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17 hours ago, blunderfull said:

To be sure - I’ll be there.   You guys are really helping this along.  Be cool to hang in the yard and ck rigging and such and get out on the water.

 

SN:  do you remember color of 1970’s Newport Finns?   Only have b/w for reference.

Met Hank @ Baxter & Cicero.  He was kind enough to show me Finn photos, some gear etc.   Shout out to Mike Dorgan who hooked me up with Henry, who I spoke with about this boat and so forth.   It was a good day!

Newports were before my time. That's a question for Henry. Mike has been doing a great job promoting the finn in that area. Great fleet and great group of guys.  

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11 hours ago, surf nazi said:

SN:  do you remember color of 1970’s Newport Finns?   Only have b/w for reference.

White deck with just about any color hull, a lot of light grey decks, boats all one color too. Long Beach Gold Cup winner was light grey deck dark grey hull, my boat was emerald green hull light grey deck. Many of the Newport Finns were made in the 60s.

 

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1 hour ago, WCB said:

@blunderfull you won't be the only one in the parking lot rigging the boat.  My buddy is bringing an old Vanguard to the event and he's going to need some help.

Cool.  Like to see Vanguards.  I’ll stop by & see where he’s at.

 I’m in ‘running what U brung mode.’  Psyched to race, wishing more on boat was finished but, no worries.  

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Just now, blunderfull said:

Cool.  Like to see Vanguards.  I’ll stop by & see where he’s at.

 I’m in ‘running what U brung mode.’  Psyched to race, wishing more on boat was finished but, no worries.  

He'll be the same.  I just ordered a bunch of new control line material for him as the boat is stripped.  His name is Ryan.  White hull, gray deck, on a trailer (no dolly).  He's running an aluminum mast and old sail but he'll be racing.

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9 minutes ago, WCB said:

He'll be the same.  I just ordered a bunch of new control line material for him as the boat is stripped.  His name is Ryan.  White hull, gray deck, on a trailer (no dolly).  He's running an aluminum mast and old sail but he'll be racing.

No dolly either.   I’ll wait to see what’s around the yard @ SDYC and go from there. 
 

Need a Little Hawk Mk ll and West Marine/Newport told me no stock showing across the board all West M. stores.   Online too slow - need before 12 Sept and can’t source supplier who’ll guarantee delivery by then.  (Schaefer doing ok business these days- that’s a pretty common wind indicator to be o/s this time of year?)

 

 

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35 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

No dolly either.   I’ll wait to see what’s around the yard @ SDYC and go from there. 
 

Need a Little Hawk Mk ll and West Marine/Newport told me no stock showing across the board all West M. stores.   Online too slow - need before 12 Sept and can’t source supplier who’ll guarantee delivery by then.  (Schaefer doing ok business these days- that’s a pretty common wind indicator to be o/s this time of year?)

 

 

https://westcoastsailing.net/little-hawk-mk2-wind-indicator/   West Coast Sailing is usually shipping the same day or the next day and to you it should be two days to get to you. @WestCoast

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9 hours ago, blunderfull said:

No dolly either.   I’ll wait to see what’s around the yard @ SDYC and go from there. 
 

Need a Little Hawk Mk ll and West Marine/Newport told me no stock showing across the board all West M. stores.   Online too slow - need before 12 Sept and can’t source supplier who’ll guarantee delivery by then.  (Schaefer doing ok business these days- that’s a pretty common wind indicator to be o/s this time of year?)

 

 

You guys are in luck sailing at SDYC because a lot of guys launch by hoist from trailers rather than dollies. One thing to note, make sure to bring your class required towline ( 8M of 8mm floating line ). It's a long tow out to the race course on most days.  

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58 minutes ago, surf nazi said:

You guys are in luck sailing at SDYC because a lot of guys launch by hoist from trailers rather than dollies. One thing to note, make sure to bring your class required towline ( 8M of 8mm floating line ). It's a long tow out to the race course on most days.  

Is it a dolly launch?   I’ve used the hoist there only (Stars) & never noticed what the dinghy guys were doing.

 

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2 hours ago, surf nazi said:

You guys are in luck sailing at SDYC because a lot of guys launch by hoist from trailers rather than dollies. One thing to note, make sure to bring your class required towline ( 8M of 8mm floating line ). It's a long tow out to the race course on most days.  

Ah thank you. I was telling Ryan that he needed to source the towline so now he can work on that in advance.  Great about hoisting in!  That will be easier off of the trailer.

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10 minutes ago, WCB said:

Ah thank you. I was telling Ryan that he needed to source the towline so now he can work on that in advance.  Great about hoisting in!  That will be easier off of the trailer.

Just get the yellow three strand polypropylene line. Cheap, floats and easy to find everywhere.

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11 minutes ago, surf nazi said:

Just get the yellow three strand polypropylene line. Cheap, floats and easy to find everywhere.

I

 

13 minutes ago, surf nazi said:

Dolly launch is right next to hoist.  

Cool.

Curious what dolly guys using these days.  Seitechs?

8B98F1D1-1DE1-4F5D-A19B-CA5394451202.gif

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26 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

I

 

Cool.

Curious what dolly guys using these days.  Seitechs?

8B98F1D1-1DE1-4F5D-A19B-CA5394451202.gif

There are welded alumium a-frame dollies that come with new boats, D built some in his garage before NA's two years ago, after shipping and exchange probably will run you $750

 

 

185-tm_thickbox_default.jpg

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10 minutes ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

There are welded alumium a-frame dollies that come with new boats, D built some in his garage before NA's two years ago, after shipping and exchange probably will run you $750

 

 

185-tm_thickbox_default.jpg

Nice.

I’m stuck a bit w/o one.   Haven’t splashed #828 yet & need to ASAP.  Dunes not exactly best place to find a dolly to launch.  

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2 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

Nice.

I’m stuck a bit w/o one.   Haven’t splashed #828 yet & need to ASAP.  Dunes not exactly best place to find a dolly to launch.  

Talk to Dorgan and the SD guys, I wouldn't be surprised if Henry or Rob have a spare somewhere they'd be willing to sell you. I know Joe Chinburg brought a bunch of fiberglass bunks to Denver from Holland so if you know a good welder you could get one whipped up pretty cheap.

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8 minutes ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

Talk to Dorgan and the SD guys, I wouldn't be surprised if Henry or Rob have a spare somewhere they'd be willing to sell you. I know Joe Chinburg brought a bunch of fiberglass bunks to Denver from Holland so if you know a good welder you could get one whipped up pretty cheap.

Joe Chinburg mentioned to my brother that a new dolly is 450 Euros. That seems like the way to go.

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15 minutes ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

Talk to Dorgan and the SD guys, I wouldn't be surprised if Henry or Rob have a spare somewhere they'd be willing to sell you. I know Joe Chinburg brought a bunch of fiberglass bunks to Denver from Holland so if you know a good welder you could get one whipped up pretty cheap.

Thks.   Left a mesg.     Will ck OCC/Sea Base/ ABYC this weekend. 
 

 

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1 minute ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

Yep, orr $200 for the bunk and whatever labor, I don't think he brought a full dolly over in this last container as of 1 AUG

Right. There was no discussion about the timeline.  It may be in a future container.

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2 hours ago, WCB said:

Right. There was no discussion about the timeline.  It may be in a future container.

My used dolly is in the current container.  It's not finalized yet so if anyone still needs Finn equipment quickly contact Joe Chinburg.  I paid 300 EUR plus shipping and will need to replace the carpet on it but that's it.  It's the perfect dolly for an old Vanguard Finn.

 

 

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Not one to over think things (Laser mindset) I’m stalled out on the most correct, fast, clever (me?). lines setup on the old blue boat.

Bringing 75’ of new line & bullet blocks to mash up things last minute.   If I wasn’t chill these days I would be absolutly freaking out heading into biggish regatta w/o even sailed & properly gone thru a couple different rigging ideas.  Jump in somewhere and it’s all better the next weekend.  

Pumped up.

DD7E29DF-5F58-4F4F-A316-F5831AA0080A.jpeg

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Cascades in boom kinda wonky.   Works but, old, frayed lines make for slow go on outhaul.

All lines need to go.  Sun bleached, frayed and blocks need cleaning and/or replacement.

 

 

Surfer/welder buddy wanders over to ck boat out in yard.   Looking at centerboard:  “...damn this looks serious.”

 

6E588EB1-578B-4514-B564-3E5CCB5F1465.jpeg

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I picked up an old 1960’s GRP Finn earlier this year. I think it’s an old Pearson that was build in the UK. The boat needs a pretty serious restoration but looking forward to getting stuck into it soon. 
Here’s two sketches that were posted on a Finn Facebook group, sorry the quality is not great7013047F-0C58-4D86-8D0F-BACA6395382E.thumb.jpeg.1262b8788fbeebdb84b63a4b60aa72a6.jpeg

D9286261-2239-4B54-ADC9-4F900AF73DF1.jpeg

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What's the story with the centerboard being able to move fore/aft?  How much travel does it actually have?  I set up a friend with a '91 Vanguard to race next weekend at the PCCs and I doubt that the centerboard can move though I can't say for sure. How does one measure for such a thing?  Meaning, do we measure from the transom corner to the trailing edge of the centerboard when fully down when the boat is on its side?  

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2 hours ago, WCB said:

What's the story with the centerboard being able to move fore/aft?  How much travel does it actually have?  I set up a friend with a '91 Vanguard to race next weekend at the PCCs and I doubt that the centerboard can move though I can't say for sure. How does one measure for such a thing?  Meaning, do we measure from the transom corner to the trailing edge of the centerboard when fully down when the boat is on its side?  

There's a slot milled in the centerboard trunk that the bolt can slide fore and aft, it's only a few centimeters

Measure from the corner of the transom to the trailing edge of the foil with the boat on a crane, it's hemispherical so the length doesn't change.

Not all boats had it until pretty recently, it's not terribly hard to modify as long as your measurement is accurate

bolt.jpg

FinnCB.png

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When that boat was built you weren’t permitted to have a range of adjustment. But the pivot bolt location and range are the Sam e, so I suspect it’s fine. The tolerance was millimeters, not centimeters.  So a range of 3/8”.  New rigs with stiffer masts probably have a placement different than the Needlespar set up.

 

SHC

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1 hour ago, Steve Clark said:

When that boat was built you weren’t permitted to have a range of adjustment. But the pivot bolt location and range are the Sam e, so I suspect it’s fine. The tolerance was millimeters, not centimeters.  So a range of 3/8”.  New rigs with stiffer masts probably have a placement different than the Needlespar set up.

 

SHC

I read the modifications done to the 1976 Vanguard from the link the Craigslist thread. The author mentioned that change and it was the first that I heard of it.  He also modified the boat for carbon masts, that makes more sense now.  Just lots of curiosity on my part.

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Steve,

Peter Harken brought one of the first Vanguard Finns to the Newport Beach boat show in 1975, he said a big effort was made to achieve minimum Lamboley numbers on that boat. By spring 1976 at Nationals half the fleet and the winner were sailing Vanguards. Just wondering if they were able to hold that tight tolerance as production ramped up. 

BIYC

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15 hours ago, WCB said:

What's the story with the centerboard being able to move fore/aft?  How much travel does it actually have?  I set up a friend with a '91 Vanguard to race next weekend at the PCCs and I doubt that the centerboard can move though I can't say for sure. How does one measure for such a thing?  Meaning, do we measure from the transom corner to the trailing edge of the centerboard when fully down when the boat is on its side?  

Max travel allowed for centerboard under rules is 2 cm about 3/4 of an inch. Max aft is 2050 mm from bottom of transom to aft edge of centerboard. Depends on weight, stiffness of boat, wind speed and sea state as to where you want the centerboard. Basically aft is depowered and forward is powered up. 

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3 hours ago, surf nazi said:

Max travel allowed for centerboard under rules is 2 cm about 3/4 of an inch. Max aft is 2050 mm from bottom of transom to aft edge of centerboard. Depends on weight, stiffness of boat, wind speed and sea state as to where you want the centerboard. Basically aft is depowered and forward is powered up. 

Thanks so much, @surf nazi It will be interesting to measure where it's at.  Is anybody measuring boats at the PCCs?

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Surf Nazi:

+/- 10mm is bigger than I recall, but not an unusually large tolerance in the world of measured one designs.  In fact =/-10 is the usual tolerance. It unusual to find tighter tolerances.  This is the design space people use to develop faster models within a one design class rule.    Vanguard Finns were right on the tolerance at a few places. Notably high in the bow they were as narrow and low as possible and still be a Finn. There are standard tolerance tweaks that happen in all one design classes, low and narrow above the waterline forward is #1.  A long diatribe on how not MOD racing classes are measured could follow.  It is arcane knowledge, but it is amusing. 

Almost all Finns were 10 kg ( maximum correctors) light.  We didn't place the correctors until we were actually doing the Lamboley.  The way to get a quick visual is by looking at the relative placement o the inspection port in the double bottom.  We were also very concerned about keeping the Longitudinal Center of Gravity as far aft as possible. There definitely was a range where most of our boats fell.  The only thing I recall being further from optimal than the others was the CG height.  and I couldn't determine if this was good or bad.  Ultimately we were building boat for customers and didn't mess around trying to find the perfect Finn. There are multiple variables, I don't have the records, but I recall there was a pretty close grouping of the results. It is hard to say what was just right because it depended on a particular sailors felt was good and not on any scientific basis.   Measuring the pitch frequency of the hull is only part of the total problem.  Changing the mast ( different weight different height cg)has a huge effect on how the boat pitches. Rake also effects the rig CG and thus how the boat pitches.   No one ever paid us to test complete rigged boats, which is what you would have to do to really understand what was going on.

When we built the fleet for Barcelona, we were more preoccupied by being consistent and making sure there wasn't a lemon in the bunch. Our QC has the exact weight of resin for each and every operation and I'm pretty sure the whole fleet was within a Kg of itself and didn't vary more than 5 mm.

SHC 

 

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Yes you want bungees to hold the centerboard down.  When you turn turtle the need will be readily apparent.

I think in this case the orange bungee goes around the front of the trunk and repeats what it does on this side.

SHC

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35 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

Bungees on either side of c/b case?   How are these attached & are they needed?  
 

 

Kevin

This is how it's set up on the Devoti's: blocks on the side of the centerboard trunk, bungee goes around the front and back through the block and hooks onto the crossbolt. You might have a 2:1 setup, if you go around and hook it back to itself

FinnCBBungee.png

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1 hour ago, Steve Clark said:

Surf Nazi:

+/- 10mm is bigger than I recall, but not an unusually large tolerance in the world of measured one designs.  In fact =/-10 is the usual tolerance. It unusual to find tighter tolerances.  This is the design space people use to develop faster models within a one design class rule.    Vanguard Finns were right on the tolerance at a few places. Notably high in the bow they were as narrow and low as possible and still be a Finn. There are standard tolerance tweaks that happen in all one design classes, low and narrow above the waterline forward is #1.  A long diatribe on how not MOD racing classes are measured could follow.  It is arcane knowledge, but it is amusing. 

Almost all Finns were 10 kg ( maximum correctors) light.  We didn't place the correctors until we were actually doing the Lamboley.  The way to get a quick visual is by looking at the relative placement o the inspection port in the double bottom.  We were also very concerned about keeping the Longitudinal Center of Gravity as far aft as possible. There definitely was a range where most of our boats fell.  The only thing I recall being further from optimal than the others was the CG height.  and I couldn't determine if this was good or bad.  Ultimately we were building boat for customers and didn't mess around trying to find the perfect Finn. There are multiple variables, I don't have the records, but I recall there was a pretty close grouping of the results. It is hard to say what was just right because it depended on a particular sailors felt was good and not on any scientific basis.   Measuring the pitch frequency of the hull is only part of the total problem.  Changing the mast ( different weight different height cg)has a huge effect on how the boat pitches. Rake also effects the rig CG and thus how the boat pitches.   No one ever paid us to test complete rigged boats, which is what you would have to do to really understand what was going on.

When we built the fleet for Barcelona, we were more preoccupied by being consistent and making sure there wasn't a lemon in the bunch. Our QC has the exact weight of resin for each and every operation and I'm pretty sure the whole fleet was within a Kg of itself and didn't vary more than 5 mm.

SHC 

 

Great insight from Steve Clark

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53 minutes ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

Kevin

This is how it's set up on the Devoti's: blocks on the side of the centerboard trunk, bungee goes around the front and back through the block and hooks onto the crossbolt. You might have a 2:1 setup, if you go around and hook it back to itself

FinnCBBungee.png

Yes, it’s funky looking but not wanting to leave my c/b off Pt Loma, I’ll wrangle it a bit .

BTW:  Thks Dino for the F’book drawings.   That’s pretty much how this Newport is rigged.

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