What is the closest 40’er to a TP52?

[Alaris 175]

Bob P’s TP52 thread had me wondering. These things seem to be all that and a bag of chips. They’ve always been fast but really seem to have been refined to the top of the sport or close to it after so many years and iterations. 

What’s the boat in the 40’ range that most closely approximates the attributes of the 52? Points high, flies downwind, lightweight. Carkeek 40?

[Sebyseb 45]

GP42 or some Fast 40

[trimfast 71]

10 minutes ago, Sebyseb said:

GP42 or some Fast 40

Ker 40 points better, but is slower than the GP42 according to the ORC certs. I would imagine the Carkeek Mark IV Ran would be pretty well up there. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any certificates for the Carkeeks. 

[RobbieB 1,191]

There was a Lutra 42 in Charleston for a while.  It looked close.

[MR.CLEAN 3,842]

Big Booty was slow as dirt.

[jackolantern 461]

Closest 40ish footer I've seen to a 52 was the botin 44 Interlodge. The 44 was regularly faster than the 52s downwind at BIRW last year. 

Ker 40+ is pretty close as well

[Alaris 175]

To be clear I don’t mean closest in performance, I mean closest in design brief and characteristics. 

[ericrayl 5]

I believe that was the design goal of the Rogers 46 at the time it was designed.  RP45 seems close as well.

[TANGO QUEBEC 64]

1 hour ago, jackolantern said:

Closest 40ish footer I've seen to a 52 was the botin 44 Interlodge. The 44 was regularly faster than the 52s downwind at BIRW last year. 

Ker 40+ is pretty close as well

Jackolantern nailed it, as far as I'm aware this boat fits the original request perfectly. Yes, Fast40s eg Rán are right there too, but the Interlodge is a teenage 52. 

[ASP 124]

The RP45 Criminal Mischief/Lady Kanon is a solid inshore/offshore platform. 

 

All in all, though the Ker 40/40+ has to be it given the number of boats built as well as the success of the design in both inshore and offshore racing..

[jackolantern 461]

1 hour ago, ASP said:

The RP45 Criminal Mischief/Lady Kanon is a solid inshore/offshore platform. 

 

There’s one on the east coast. It rarely beats 52s and hasn’t since they lost a couple key crew. 
 

Those are 06/07 designs. They’re closest in design brief to the original transpac era 52s like Pegasus or Esmerelda

[Alaris 175]

7 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

There’s one on the east coast. It rarely beats 52s and hasn’t since they lost a couple key crew. 
 

Those are 06/07 designs. They’re closest in design brief to the original transpac era 52s like Pegasus or Esmerelda

Is that the former Sjambok or a similar design?

[trimfast 71]

56 minutes ago, Alaris said:

Is that the former Sjambok or a similar design?

Yes, Pterodactyl

[Alaris 175]

5 minutes ago, trimfast said:

Yes, Pterodactyl

To my recollection when she was on the Chesapeake, fast boat but aggressively rated. 

[LB 15 4,884]

Hollywood (Boltin 40) just gave a TP 52 a giant touch up here at AIrlie Beach Race week.And not just any TP but according to the TP’s PR team it is not only the fastest and best prepared TP in the country the crew are the greatest ever assembled and are all hung like rouge elephants. Little wonder they only do about 3 races every year.

[Left Shift 2,765]

6 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Hollywood (Boltin 40) just gave a TP 52 a giant touch up here at AIrlie Beach Race week.And not just any TP but according to the TP’s PR team it is not only the fastest and best prepared TP in the country the crew are the greatest ever assembled and are all hung like rouge elephants. Little wonder they only do about 3 races every year.

Is a "rouge elephant" like a pink elephant with a trust fund?

[shaggybaxter 1,638]

To find out, all one has to do is measure the amount of water from the leaks at the end of a torrid race. 
On that measurement stick, the Botin 40’s would have to be a close contender. 

[LB 15 4,884]

1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

Is a "rouge elephant" like a pink elephant with a trust fund?

Give me a break shifty - such is my hangover today that I am heading out to try and catch the ‘rona so I feel better.

[Snaggletooth 3,053]

13 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Give me a break shifty - such is my hangover today that I am heading out to try and catch the ‘rona so I feel better.

The shit you saye somethimes......... Thet is badde..................             

[Left Shift 2,765]

1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Give me a break shifty - such is my hangover today that I am heading out to try and catch the ‘rona so I feel better.

Try Bondi Beach, maybe join some rugby scrum.  That should do it.

 

[OW3 26]

6 hours ago, ericrayl said:

I believe that was the design goal of the Rogers 46 at the time it was designed.  RP45 seems close as well.

I finished a 380nm race on a Rogers 46 sandwiched between two TP's over the line. Majority of the race was downhill, canting Cookson 50 in front of all of us. RP46 about 2 hours behind us. Modern TP would smoke us all. 

[Rawhide 86]

9 hours ago, trimfast said:

Ker 40 points better, but is slower than the GP42 according to the ORC certs. I would imagine the Carkeek Mark IV Ran would be pretty well up there. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any certificates for the Carkeeks. 

That is/was my Ker40, in reality the GP42's struggle to beat us over the line. the performance curve is very similar to a TP52. 

[SF Woody Sailor 346]

3 hours ago, OW1981 said:

I finished a 380nm race on a Rogers 46 sandwiched between two TP's over the line. Majority of the race was downhill, canting Cookson 50 in front of all of us. RP46 about 2 hours behind us. Modern TP would smoke us all. 

A 380nm race on one of the MedCup 52's would most likely not be a pleasant experience.

[Jono 42]

That is/was my Ker40, in reality the GP42's struggle to beat us over the line. the performance curve is very similar to a TP52

Final verdict available??

Steve has the Icebreaker up for sale in NZ as a replacement.

[Matagi 794]

Shaw 11 or 12 (Blink)

Soto 40 also an eligible contender, from the looks, but they are raced as OD, so no idea.

 

[trimfast 71]

7 hours ago, Matagi said:

Shaw 11 or 12 (Blink)

Soto 40 also an eligible contender, from the looks, but they are raced as OD, so no idea.

 

I looked at the Soto rating while looking at the Ker40 above. It was knocked out of relevance just for ratings to ratings comparison. 

[sinker 4]

Would be much more entertaining to discuss which TP52s are sailed at a level of modern 40 footers? I can think of one or two. 

[Sail4beer 2,105]

https://www.cooperss.com/asset-detail.php?name=marine&id=18630

This little custom would do some serious racing. Too bad someone else just got to it for about $40,000...

[gspot 171]

13 hours ago, OW1981 said:

I finished a 380nm race on a Rogers 46 sandwiched between two TP's over the line. Majority of the race was downhill, canting Cookson 50 in front of all of us. RP46 about 2 hours behind us. Modern TP would smoke us all. 

But how well were they hung?

[Matagi 794]

4 hours ago, trimfast said:

I looked at the Soto rating while looking at the Ker40 above. It was knocked out of relevance just for ratings to ratings comparison. 

Do tell...

[trimfast 71]

8 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Do tell...

It is over a knot slower than the two above. 36.8° at 5 kts vmg  in 16kts for the Soto. 

[Matagi 794]

I see, thanks

Blink would have an IRC rating of 1.362, that puts them inTP 52 territory, I think?

[bodega87 63]

8 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

https://www.cooperss.com/asset-detail.php?name=marine&id=18630

This little custom would do some serious racing. Too bad someone else just got to it for about $40,000...

And you'd need 10x that for a new mast, rigging and sails. 

[sail2win 12]

31 minutes ago, bodega87 said:

And you'd need 10x that for a new mast, rigging and sails. 

Plus more for hull repair especially to the cracked transom/topsides/deck joint

[TripleZeros 49]

I own a Soto 40. We race against a GP42 and win often (haven't raced this year) with PHRF and beat them last year on the Chicago Mac (ORR). Its not all carbon so a poor man's 52 I guess but it performs well for its rating. Set up nearly the same as a 52 but no grinder.

-000

[Sail4beer 2,105]

The carbon rig would be an expensive replacement but 2 mains,5 jibs, 2 spinnakers and one spinnaker staysail are there and the topside hull damage seems to only be at the port transom.That’s easy work for someone like me who does it for a living.

 Anyway, someone just bought it to re-rig it and do what Alaris is talking about in this thread so good luck to them and don’t think  your going to win anything with a suit of 3 year old rags...

 

[Sail4beer 2,105]

Yep. 
 

not 

 

worth 

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.

[LB 15 4,884]

That will buff out.

[Trovão 469]

On 8/14/2020 at 3:01 AM, Matagi said:

Shaw 11 or 12 (Blink)

Soto 40 also an eligible contender, from the looks, but they are used to be raced as OD, so no idea.

 

there, fify. very little to none od nowadays. but yeah, they'd be the 40' tps

[1sailor 44]

How 'bout one of these for your answer?   100% carbon hull, deck, rig, foils.   Pedestal grinder and string drops.    similar to the 52 in crew roles, with similar sail controls.    its an easy boat to own, has a road trailer, it's very light and you can even stand up in it

 

[Alaris 175]

7 minutes ago, 1sailor said:

How 'bout one of these for your answer?   100% carbon hull, deck, rig, foils.   Pedestal grinder and string drops.    similar to the 52 in crew roles, with similar sail controls.    its an easy boat to own, has a road trailer, it's very light and you can even stand up in it

 

What is it?

[10thTonner 266]

1 minute ago, Alaris said:

What is it?

How do you stand up in that? ...Lay flat on the floor with an eretion? 

[1sailor 44]

11 minutes ago, 10thTonner said:

How do you stand up in that? ...Lay flat on the floor with an eretion? 

granted i'm only 5'9" but yeah I can stand up in it

[1sailor 44]

18 minutes ago, Alaris said:

What is it?

turbo'd farr 400 with a nose job, some old guys on deck and a ton of kids having fun in harbor springs

[Matagi 794]

Question number one, Mister Speaker!

(i.e. whats it rate?)