Breamerly

Zombie Boats > Balls

Recommended Posts

You've all seen them crapping up your favorite harbor. You cruise in after a lovely day of sailing, wife having a good time, kids only crying a little bit, optimistic about a good spot to anchor where the kids can safely harass each other while you knock back a beer or eight - but then there they are - mossy, ugly, parked unused since God knows when and blocking up all the best spots in the anchorage, forcing you to wedge yourself in so close to the shallows you end up with the kids fully wailing and your wife gritting her teeth as you row the kedge out for the third time, the sun setting and hopes of a warm dinner fading (let alone a guilt-free beer) - all to avoid these floating monuments to other people's entitlement...

No folks, I'm not taking about your resident Zombie Flotilla.

I'm talking about private mooring balls.

 

Sure, people have the right to these things, I suppose. But am I the only one who views them as entirely antithetical to the this-land-is-your-land spirit of cruising and gunkholing in general?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I am missing something. Are you talking about someone having more than one mooring, say one for each place they go? This is something that doesn't seem to exist around here.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I guess I am missing something. Are you talking about someone having more than one mooring, say one for each place they go? This is something that doesn't seem to exist around here.

 

Taking about Private mooring balls, largely empty, installed hither and yon across harbors near and far.

One example that pops to mind: Port Renfrew. There's really just one decently protected hole, tucked in beside the government dock. And right in the middle of it? A big mooring ball, stencilled 'private', basically permanently preserving the prime spot for themselves since there's not room to swing without hitting it, even if you anchored nearby.

Seen similar countless other places.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Silva Bay has been destroyed by them.

All the bullshit around permits to build a marina are largely the reason for them.

"Save the Snail Darter".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

All the bullshit around permits to build a marina are largely the reason for them.

You think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Breamerly said:

Taking about Private mooring balls, largely empty, installed hither and yon across harbors near and far.

One example that pops to mind: Port Renfrew. There's really just one decently protected hole, tucked in beside the government dock. And right in the middle of it? A big mooring ball, stencilled 'private', basically permanently preserving the prime spot for themselves since there's not room to swing without hitting it, even if you anchored nearby.

Seen similar countless other places.

This thankfully is not a thing in this area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even in the yacht clubs, man kills me I can't get a pen of any size when you are a committed racer of 2+ times a week because there is more than a hundred boats in the yacht club who haven't been out in 5+ years.

The moorings in the bay next door are exactly the same, 50 boats, maybe 10 of them have moved in the last 5 years.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

This thankfully is not a thing in this area.

Wellllll...maybe a little.

In the West River, there is a field of private moorings in between two waterfront restaurants that would be prime anchoring territory.  This mooring field is the Land of Misfit Toys. Nearly all of the boats are decrepit and never move.  There is a SWEET little Freedom 25 that hasn't moved in 3-4 years with an enormous osprey nest built on the bow. It was beautiful when it was parked. Now it looks like absolute shit.

In my own cove/creek on the Rhode River, across from my own dock there are 3-4 moorings also in prime anchoring spots. One mooring holds FOUR decrepit 25 foot pieces of shit. These haven't moved in the TEN years that I've lived in my house. Every year, one of these boats chafes free and washes up on our docks or on our beach and we either call around or just tow the fucking thing back out to its POS brethren and tie it back up.  These moorings haven't been serviced in a decade, so far as I know. How the moorings themselves haven't failed is pretty amazing to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a couple of zombies on moorings in Cadle Creek, off the Rhode River.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it's late and the mooring is empty, pick it up. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've heard that in Maine, some evenings you'll hear a voice call down to you from a house on a bluff inviting you to use the mooring that you're sailing past.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I've heard that in Maine, some evenings you'll hear a voice call down to you from a house on a bluff inviting you to use the mooring that you're sailing past.

Sounds like something out of a horror movie......

 

Just sayin'.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cant say I like them either but  ..."entitlement" .... "this land is your land"...  not sure I would go that far.

Are they typically empty all the time or are they extra empty because of Covid?

What's the history - were the mooring balls part of a planned development approved by the local govt/port authority to add "controlled" moorings for the boating community and people paid money to buy?  Not much different than people buying land.  Were the mooring balls and maybe anchoring restrictions put in to protect the area from becoming a zombie free anchorage for derelict boats?  Is this "private" ball associated with someone that has owned the land and water rites for maybe the last 50-100+ years?

The general public thinks anyone with a boat is rich and entitled.  Backing up what Sloop said - It must be almost impossible in todays political and environmental time to add marina dock access for boaters.  As a result Mooring balls will most likely increase in number until they also become targeted and blocked.

Again - I don't like them but I understand why they exist.  Am I jealous of someone with a prime spot - sure.  I am also jealous that I cant walk into the local private country club and play a round of golf. :)

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, are people placing these mooring balls adjacent to their waterfront property, or are they just squatting? Aren't permits needed for mooring balls?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Bull City said:

So, are people placing these mooring balls adjacent to their waterfront property, or are they just squatting? Aren't permits needed for mooring balls?

Ah, excellent question!

We also had a waterfront property owner place 3 private moorings in the creek off of their property for the sole purpose of preventing anyone from anchoring because "they didn't want to look at any sailboats in front of their house."  This was right next to my community dock.

Those owners have since sold the property and removed the moorings so that part of the creek is now open, thank goodness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

If it's late and the mooring is empty, pick it up. 

You're a trusting soul.

What is underwater?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

You're a trusting soul.

What is underwater?

Then don't.

My assumption is that the OP has some knowledge of the area. 

I used to grab one of the Windcrest balls in Somesville occasionally. If it's good enough for a Hodgdon 90', it's good enough for me. They have/had bow and stern moorings that were rarely used. 

At Bartlett the Rockefellers maintain a guest mooring that is clearly marked.

At Frenchboro we have permission to use two different private moorings, but we prefer to be farther out, away from the skeeters.

We have our choice of several private moorings in Pretty Marsh, but prefer to anchor off the National Park. 

At IAH, in the thorofare, we have permission to use the Kimball Island moorings, but usually pickup a rental to put a little money in the economy. 

1 hour ago, slap said:

Sounds like something out of a horror movie......

 

Just sayin'.

My daughter still says that Frenchboro, Maine, is the model for Silent Hill. 

Let me be clear, I would never pick up an unfamiliar mooring in unsettled weather. I have tremendous faith in our ability to anchor and hold if a breeze is predicted.

45 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Ah, excellent question!

We also had a waterfront property owner place 3 private moorings in the creek off of their property for the sole purpose of preventing anyone from anchoring because "they didn't want to look at any sailboats in front of their house."  This was right next to my community dock.

Those owners have since sold the property and removed the moorings so that part of the creek is now open, thank goodness.

My Mom has a mooring field for the nearby yacht club in front of her house. She likes looking at the sailboats. She likes it a LOT when I bring mine around, which is rare. Once you get used to Maine, southern NE loses a lot of its allure. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The funny thing is, those 4 derelicts that are swinging off of a single mooring were still in the full view of those home owners in my creek. Planting those 3 "obstruction" moorings didn't really gain them anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Max Rockatansky said:

OP is cheesed about the zombi mooring, doesn’t even have a boat on it. Hell man, all they can do is run you off it; tie up if you think it will hold... 

This man gets it haha

 

I would do, sure, but who the hell knows what's down there. Could be shoestring tied to a cinderblock for all I know.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beaufort, NC is a popular stop on the way N or S here in the East. The town waterfront was occupied by zombies, genuine boat bums on derelicts, absentee owners from Raleigh and working liveaboards. All private balls/anchors. Every big wind put many on the beach. 

Enter the Park Service taking over the locals' shuttling folks to the various islands businesses. Tick tock ... Last year city council ordered all mooring balls removed. A lot of boats went somewhere else, and all of the zombies moved to an open spot on the next creek over but still in sight by all except the town waterfront owners. "All politics is local."

An enterprising dipshit put himself in charge of owning the zombie fleet and selling what he can on CL. Few have moved and all are hanging on a variety of inadequate anchors, skinny rodes and cinderblocks. Winds put them ashore and in the way of a channel to the ICW.  And life goes on.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ajax - I am famili

4 hours ago, Ajax said:

Wellllll...maybe a little.

In the West River, there is a field of private moorings in between two waterfront restaurants that would be prime anchoring territory.  This mooring field is the Land of Misfit Toys. Nearly all of the boats are decrepit and never move.  There is a SWEET little Freedom 25 that hasn't moved in 3-4 years with an enormous osprey nest built on the bow. It was beautiful when it was parked. Now it looks like absolute shit.

In my own cove/creek on the Rhode River, across from my own dock there are 3-4 moorings also in prime anchoring spots. One mooring holds FOUR decrepit 25 foot pieces of shit. These haven't moved in the TEN years that I've lived in my house. Every year, one of these boats chafes free and washes up on our docks or on our beach and we either call around or just tow the fucking thing back out to its POS brethren and tie it back up.  These moorings haven't been serviced in a decade, so far as I know. How the moorings themselves haven't failed is pretty amazing to me.

Totally different thing. Those moorings have boats on them. What the OP is talking about would be like me putting down a mooring in Rock Hall, Annapolis, Chestertown, Saint Michael's, and Oxford. Enough people do that and it gets very hard to anchor. I can't think of anyplace I have seen a mooring like that.

* the only place I can think of anyone would even try that around here is Annapolis and that is not allowed there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bull City said:

So, are people placing these mooring balls adjacent to their waterfront property, or are they just squatting? Aren't permits needed for mooring balls?

In Maryland you just put one in, no permit needed unless it is in Annapolis. It would be quite pointless to put a mooring in some random spot, how would you get back and forth to the boat? There would need to be some access from shore and place to keep a dinghy. Our version of a zombie mooring is an abandoned mooring. It takes up space, there is no boat ever on it, and no one would trust it to hold anything bigger than a dinghy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To clarify, in the spirit of maximum crankiness, I am completely, one-hundred percent dubious of even sparkly new mooring balls set in plain sight of the owner's shoreside mansion, with their personal details printed for all to see.

I think taking up a spot you're not actively using - effectively staking out a spot on a public waterway with a flag that says 'this bit of water is all mine' - is deeply obnoxious.

That's What I was getting at, generally, in my OP: unoccupied mooring balls can be as obnoxious as zombie shitboxes. And certainly more so than liveaboards or aqua-bums, who at least can make half an argument about necessity or poverty, as opposed to unadulterated entitlement. I personally would not agree with that argument, but I think they at least have half a leg to stand on.

To make an analogy, would we permit an off-road vehicle enthusiast paving and painting himself a private parking spot in his favorite national Forest? Or maybe more accurately, painting his name on one of a limited number of spots in a public campground, simply because his house happened to be on adjacent private land?

It may be legal, and there are probably arguments that can be made in favor of it, but it's still annoying.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Breamerly said:

To clarify, in the spirit of maximum crankiness, I am completely, one-hundred percent dubious of even sparkly new mooring balls set in plain sight of the owner's shoreside mansion, with their personal details printed for all to see.

I think taking up a spot you're not actively using - effectively staking out a spot on a public waterway with a flag that says 'this bit of water is all mine' - is deeply obnoxious.

That's What I was getting at, generally, in my OP: unoccupied mooring balls can be as obnoxious as zombie shitboxes. And certainly more so than liveaboards or aqua-bums, who at least can make half an argument about necessity or poverty, as opposed to unadulterated entitlement. I personally would not agree with that argument, but I think they at least have half a leg to stand on.

To make an analogy, would we permit an off-road vehicle enthusiast paving and painting himself a parking spot in the middle of his favorite national Forest?

I have no problem with people having ONE mooring, I would be pissed if the same boat had 2 or 3 or more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stupid newb question, couldn't you just anchor near the mooring ball ? Is it illegal or are you just worried about getting  tangled up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Roam said:

Stupid newb question, couldn't you just anchor near the mooring ball ? Is it illegal or are you just worried about getting  tangled up?

That - an anchored boat swings with the wind, a mooring is a fixed obstacle. I think this is a New England/PNW thing, our anchorages here are big enough that you can just move over a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, kent_island_sailor said:

I have no problem with people having ONE mooring, I would be pissed if the same boat had 2 or 3 or more.

Interesting. 

When there's one taking up a nice anchoring spot, empty, it's not much of a balm to me personally to think, 'well at least this is the only nice little spot this fellow is blocking up.' OTOH, I suppose the inverse *would* be more annoying: if I pulled up and saw it said, 'Bob's buoy, number 3 of 7'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Breamerly said:

Interesting. 

When there's one taking up a nice anchoring spot, empty, it's not much of a balm to me personally to think, 'well at least this is the only nice little spot this fellow is blocking up.' OTOH, I suppose the inverse *would* be more annoying: if I pulled up and saw it said, 'Bob's buoy, number 3 of 7'.

The mooring would only be empty if the boat was out sailing???

To be clear - you get ONE mooring to keep your boat on, not one mooring plus a slip or two moorings or five or whatever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

...Our version of a zombie mooring is an abandoned mooring. It takes up space, there is no boat ever on it, and no one would trust it to hold anything bigger than a dinghy.

Why wouldn't you disappear it or them? Key word is abandoned. No one to object. And who cares anyway? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

The mooring would only be empty if the boat was out sailing???

To be clear - you get ONE mooring to keep your boat on, not one mooring plus a slip or two moorings or five or whatever.

Obviously we're getting into ambiguous territory. The majority of balls I see are empty. Even many of the actively used ones are empty a good chunk of the off season, and I'd bet sit empty a numerical majority of the day of the year

If we go with your logic, are we also condemning people who pull their boats in winter, but leave their mooring? If not, why is storing it off-mooring okay on land, but not on water (if having a morning and a slip isn't okay)? And by that logic, why is it okay to leave your mooring sitting taking up space while you're out cruising for a month, but not while you're in a slip/hauled out?

That said, I can see the argument that it saves the seabed to have them, and for that reason think public buoys at parks and such are great. And I can (barely) see the argument that private buoys are fine when they're being used.

But the instant a private buoy is sitting empty, it's taking up often scarce public space for no reason. I'm shouting into the wind here, but I'm skeptical that private individuals should have the right to do that.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Breamerly said:

Obviously we're getting into ambiguous territory. The majority of balls I see are empty. Even many of the actively used ones are empty a good chunk of the off season, and I'd bet sit empty a numerical majority of the day of the year

If we go with your logic, are we also condemning people who pull their boats in winter, but leave their mooring? If not, why is storing it off-mooring okay on land, but not on water (if having a morning and a slip isn't okay)? And by that logic, why is it okay to leave your mooring sitting taking up space while you're out cruising for a month, but not while you're in a slip/hauled out?

That said, I can see the argument that it saves the seabed to have them, and for that reason think public buoys at parks and such are great. And I can (barely) see the argument that private buoys are fine when they're being used.

But the instant a private buoy is sitting empty, it's taking up often scarce public space for no reason. I'm shouting into the wind here, but I'm skeptical that private individuals should have the right to do that.

 

I think you have got off in the weeds a bit. Some boats are on moorings. Some are in slips. They go out on cruises and daysails or get hauled for the winter or whatever. The mooring stays put, the same way no one takes a pile-driving barge and takes their pier apart every time they go on a cruise :rolleyes: In  places like Maine with a huge tidal range it is very difficult to keep a boat anywhere BUT on a mooring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I think you have got off in the weeds a bit. Some boats are on moorings. Some are in slips. They go out on cruises and daysails or get hauled for the winter or whatever. The mooring stays put, the same way no one takes a pile-driving barge and takes their pier apart every time they go on a cruise :rolleyes: In  places like Maine with a huge tidal range it is very difficult to keep a boat anywhere BUT on a mooring.

Interesting about Maine.

Our tidal range runs ~13 feet, but maybe the geography is more permissive of Marinas here. 

And alas, in the weeds is where you end up, sometimes, if you try to figure the right and wrong of things.

I only hope one day they'll unearth these writings and we'll assume our place in the pantheon of philosophers: piroclese, demosthenes, breamerly and kent-island-guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Washington State Mooring Buoys are licensed by the State Dept of Natural Resources and sometime also regulated by the local government (like here on Bainbridge Island where the city requires an additional permit.) Adjacent waterfront property owners have first right to the space in front of their property but with specific requirements and required location within the extended boundary lines of their property. According to theory unused moorings are removed (at least here in Bainbridge Island.) The Bainbridge Island Harbor Master oversees our moorings, she is a unarmed member of our Police Department and part of the department’s Marine Patrol. In addition we have volunteer Harbor Stewards in each harbor to assist the Harbor Master. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, kimbottles said:

According to theory unused moorings are removed (at least here in Bainbridge Island.) The Bainbridge Island Harbor Master oversees our moorings, she is a unarmed member of our Police Department and part of the department’s Marine Patrol. In addition we have volunteer Harbor Stewards in each harbor to assist the Harbor Master. 

Ah, Bainbridge, the nice place. Honestly, that sounds like a pretty good system.

In the rest of the sound though it would seem theory varies from practice by a fair bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Bull City said:

So, are people placing these mooring balls adjacent to their waterfront property, or are they just squatting? Aren't permits needed for mooring balls?

I would kind of look at placing 'private' mooring balls in front of your house as squatting. You dont own the sea in front of your house. I cant pitch a tent overnight on public property just because I live next door.

That  brings up, what are the rules for placing a mooring ball? Can I just throw one out anywhere I want? as long as its not in a channel? as long as I have some claim to nearby shore? is it really my private property once placed? what laws/regs govern this? local, state/prov, feds?  Hmmmmmm......

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Baldur said:

I would kind of look at placing 'private' mooring balls in front of your house as squatting. You dont own the sea in front of your house. I cant pitch a tent overnight on public property just because I live next door.

That  brings up, what are the rules for placing a mooring ball? Can I just throw one out anywhere I want? as long as its not in a channel? as long as I have some claim to nearby shore? is it really my private property once placed? what laws/regs govern this? local, state/prov, feds?  Hmmmmmm......

Canadian Regulations

https://www2.tc.gc.ca/publications/en/tp14799/pdf/hr/tp14799e.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Baldur said:

[...]what are the rules for placing a mooring ball? Can I just throw one out anywhere I want? as long as its not in a channel? as long as I have some claim to nearby shore? is it really my private property once placed? what laws/regs govern this? local, state/prov, feds?  Hmmmmmm......

There's rules and then there's reality. In WA you need a permit, but property owners can get them pretty directly, and others without too much more trouble I think. And of course, if you've got a buddy who dives, or a boat with a big enough pick to yard a 350 small block over the side with a chain around it, you can just 'go for it' - which I think in practice ends up happening... maybe a quarter of the time?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought of an example from recently:

Doe Bay, and the associated bight just south of it, behind Doe Island.

What could be a pair of lovely little nooks with space for 2-3 boats to swing on anchor are instead parking lots for the water toys of the various rich fellas who live on the adjacent shore, to the point where at least in Doe Bay there's not a single remaining spot to anchor (unless you did some sort of medievally complicated Bahamian Moor or stern tie over a long sand beach into someone's yard). In the little bight just south there might be space for one tenuous hook, but that looked to be it from what I could see passing by (I went into the bay, not the bight).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember the homeowner in Lake Worth that bought a bunch of somethings and anchored them in the water in front of the house? It was a transiting place but I suspect the derelicts fucked up another good spot. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Baldur said:

I would kind of look at placing 'private' mooring balls in front of your house as squatting. You dont own the sea in front of your house. I cant pitch a tent overnight on public property just because I live next door.

That  brings up, what are the rules for placing a mooring ball? Can I just throw one out anywhere I want? as long as its not in a channel? as long as I have some claim to nearby shore? is it really my private property once placed? what laws/regs govern this? local, state/prov, feds?  Hmmmmmm......

That is highly variable depending on where you live. In Maryland you just put down a mooring at will, no one regulates it. You can't put one in a channel and a few places have local regulations like Annapolis. Of course it is your private property, you paid for it. You do not need any kind of claim to the shore, if you are dumb enough to put a mooring someplace 10 miles away from the nearest place to get ashore that is your problem :rolleyes: I actually don't get this line of thought, I surely can put down a mooring at some random spot, but wtf would I do with it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Silva Bay has been destroyed by them.

All the bullshit around permits to build a marina are largely the reason for them.

"Save the Snail Darter".

That's not entirely accurate.  My recollection is that the first mooring buoy in Silva Bay was laid by the owners of Silva Bay Marina to tie the Spirit of Chemainus up to (they bought her to use for charters (which never happened)).  So, it's not like there was a lack of moorage that was the issue for them!

Prior to that, there were a couple of smaller boats more or less permanently anchored in the small bay north of the Boatel, but that's pretty shallow in there, and certainly not in the way of traffic.

In order to build a marina in the Gulf Islands, you first need shoreside property with the proper commercial zoning, and getting that can be a bit of a chore.  Then you need the water lease from the Province, which is not too bad to get.  i don't believe that driving piles requires a permit

This picture is from the early 1990's (not sure of the exact year).  The second boat from the left appears to be ties to the Spirit of Chemainus buoy (it was a larger brown cylinder).  As you can see, this pre-dates the arrival of squaters like Sassafrass' Naval Architect and others who are too cheap to pay for moorage, but get bent out of shape when marinas are not happy at them for using the marinas a temporary dinghy docks.

2001066533_silvaBayfullsmall.jpg.ed5014c627129c959b5f2dbd18de58f1.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Expat Canuck said:

others who are too cheap to pay for moorage, but get bent out of shape when marinas are not happy at them for using the marinas a temporary dinghy docks.

It me lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Breamerly said:

It me lol

It's one thing to do it for one night.  Some have been there for 10 years!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Expat Canuck said:

That's not entirely accurate.  My recollection is that the first mooring buoy in Silva Bay was laid by the owners of Silva Bay Marina to tie the Spirit of Chemainus up to (they bought her to use for charters (which never happened)).  So, it's not like there was a lack of moorage that was the issue for them!

Prior to that, there were a couple of smaller boats more or less permanently anchored in the small bay north of the Boatel, but that's pretty shallow in there, and certainly not in the way of traffic.

In order to build a marina in the Gulf Islands, you first need shoreside property with the proper commercial zoning, and getting that can be a bit of a chore.  Then you need the water lease from the Province, which is not too bad to get.  i don't believe that driving piles requires a permit

This picture is from the early 1990's (not sure of the exact year).  The second boat from the left appears to be ties to the Spirit of Chemainus buoy (it was a larger brown cylinder).  As you can see, this pre-dates the arrival of squaters like Sassafrass' Naval Architect and others who are too cheap to pay for moorage, but get bent out of shape when marinas are not happy at them for using the marinas a temporary dinghy docks.

2001066533_silvaBayfullsmall.jpg.ed5014c627129c959b5f2dbd18de58f1.jpg

That's the way I always knew it.

Try a current photo. It's worse than this now.

image.png.2262a15be84a5516b11f0f0b9d23b223.png

Two months ago we had to cruise all over the bay looking for a place to drop anchor. Finally found a spot neat the shelf off the ramp middle right.

The seaplanes had to slalom through to get to the dock.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not disagreeing that it is no longer like I showed.  I'm just saying that the proliferation of permanently anchored / moored boats clogging up the bay didn't start because of the lack of marinas or dock space.

I guarantee you that unless you were in the bay on this past long weekend, you could have found moorage at one or more marinas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/20/2020 at 8:03 PM, Breamerly said:

I'm talking about private mooring balls.

I feel your pain, Breamerly.  I've noticed that a lot of the popular anchorages in my neck have seen a bunch of moorings appear with a big Fuck You , I mean "Private" stenciled on them.  They are nobody's regular mooring, and are obviously there for someone to go out for the day and have a reserved spot to tie up at a favourite beach, or whatever.  Always in the best spot to anchor, and pushing anyone else into deeper water/worse holding.  It's nothing to do with where they regularly moor their boat.

I don't think there are many regs (none that are enforced anyway), though I'll have a look at the link Expat Canuck posted (thanks EP).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Breamerly said:

The majority of balls I see are empty. Even many of the actively used ones are empty a good chunk of the off season

*snicker*  but are they blue?

(I really am a very immature fucker)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Expat Canuck said:

you could have found moorage at one or more marinas.

Turns out marinas are fetid hell pits tho

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Corryvreckan said:

I don't think there are many regs (none that are enforced anyway), though I'll have a look at the link Expat Canuck posted (thanks EP).

That link refers to private navigation buoys - moorings in Canada are generally (sometimes?) regulated at the provincial and municipal levels. I am of the opinion that one is always free to pick up a empty mooring (at one's own risk) with the understanding that it may be necessary to vacate if the owner turns up. I generally prefer picking up a mooring, if one is available, to anchoring unless weather is a concern and the condition of the mooring is unknown. This is generally accepted practice in my waters. I believe the situation is similar in the UK and, as Ajax pointed out, Maine is similarly friendly. Don't know about elsewhere in the USA...  Often yacht clubs or the CCA maintains moorings in certain popular anchorages. I have a mooring in front of my house for my boat and a guest mooring that I am happy to let anyone use (as well as my own mooring when I am away cruising).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jim in Halifax said:

That link refers to private navigation buoys

Mooring buoys are listed later in the document

 

1 hour ago, Jim in Halifax said:

I have a mooring in front of my house for my boat and a guest mooring that I am happy to let anyone use

Do you have this marked on the buoy though - somehow indicating it's available? Because if you don't, that offer isn't good for much (no offense). Maybe one in a thousand cruisers might see a buoy and consider knocking on the door of the nearest waterfront home to ask if they can use it. For the other 999 it might as well be for your own personal use, since that's what everyone will assume and how they'll treat it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The marina comment was actually driven more by the situation in Vancouver - False Creek, Kits beach etc. than Silva Bay. I suspect Newcastle is driven by marinas or lack thereof.

That shortage is also the cause of the ridiculous berth prices here which also further drives the mooring situation.

Does anyone think that people moor off Kits beach from choice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Breamerly said:

Turns out marinas are fetid hell pits tho

As well as costing as much as a frigging hotel room - or very nearly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Breamerly said:

Mooring buoys are listed later in the document

 

Do you have this marked on the buoy though - somehow indicating it's available? Because if you don't, that offer isn't good for much (no offense). Maybe one in a thousand cruisers might see a buoy and consider knocking on the door of the nearest waterfront home to ask if they can use it. For the other 999 it might as well be for your own personal use, since that's what everyone will assume and how they'll treat it.

I lend my buoys out to friends all the time if my sailboat isn’t here (I use a bow and stern buoy to limit her swing.) I have had dozens of friends use them (including a number of Anarchists.) I have also allowed random boaters to use them if they ask first and are respectful. I am down on our dock daily so it is pretty easy to communicate with visiting boaters. Some of the friends I lend them to are people I have met in the harbor. I give out my phone number and ask them to call so I can let them know if I have promised the moorings  to someone else first. I have met many very nice people who have become good friends via those buoys. 

291F51FF-1599-4FB9-A0A1-BA96EF572E8B.jpeg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kimbottles said:

I lend my buoys out to friends all the time if my sailboat isn’t here (I use a bow and stern buoy to limit her swing.) I have had dozens of friends use them (including a number of Anarchists.) I have also allowed random boaters to use them if they ask first and are respectful. I am down on our dock daily so it is pretty easy to communicate with visiting boaters. Some of the friends I lend them to are people I have met in the harbor. I give out my phone number and ask them to call so I can let them know if I have promised the moorings  to someone else first. I have met many very nice people who have become good friends via those buoys. 

291F51FF-1599-4FB9-A0A1-BA96EF572E8B.jpeg

Practice is often trickier than theory.

Yours is a very friendly, rational approach, and good on you for it. You've set your ball on the edge of things - it could barely be argued it's even taking up a regular anchoring spot. Certainly not the way it would be if it were another 75 feet out. 

All of that said..... As benevolent as you're being in sharing the part of the bay you've staked out, you've still staked out a part of the bay.

If everyone were as good as you about it - and especially if they left anchorage space the way you have - allowing such staking-out wouldn't be an issue. But most people are clearly not so benevolent, and the fact that the current system assumes they are leaves it open to the abuse we see in places like Port Madison - another where buoys block the majority of the bay.

On a broader level I'm not convinced it's fair for you to have the right to stake out some of the water - which beyond the MLW line is treated as commons - just because you live on a nearby shore.

So I commend you for your behavior within the bounds of the system, but I still say the system itself is in the abstract unfair and, like so many laize fair systems, in practice essentially invites abuse by the wealthy, to whom it gives wide latitude.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Breamerly said:

Practice is often trickier than theory.

Yours is a very friendly, rational approach, and good on you for it. You've set your ball on the edge of things - it could barely be argued it's even taking up a regular anchoring spot. Certainly not the way it would be if it were another 75 feet out. 

All of that said..... As benevolent as you're being in sharing the part of the bay you've staked out, you've still staked out a part of the bay.

If everyone were as good as you about it - and especially if they left anchorage space the way you have - allowing such staking-out wouldn't be an issue. But most people are clearly not so benevolent, and the fact that the current system assumes they are leaves it open to the abuse we see in places like Port Madison - another where buoys block the majority of the bay.

On a broader level I'm not convinced it's fair for you to have the right to stake out some of the water - which beyond the MLW line is treated as commons - just because you live on a nearby shore.

So I commend you for your behavior within the bounds of the system, but I still say the system itself is in the abstract unfair and, like so many laize fair systems, in practice essentially invites abuse by the wealthy, to whom it gives wide latitude.

Putting boats on moorings is a centuries old, if not millennia old, tradition. Suddenly this is some crime? You do realize that all the "you are putting your boat on property that doesn't belong to you" arguments are EXACTLY what every group of rich assholes that don't want anyone anchoring anywhere they have to look at uses? Georgia narrowly avoided having it be basically illegal to anchor anywhere in the state.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Moorings with boats on them are one thing. Moorings that just sit there unoccupied and prevent people from being able to use a harbor are another.  Perhaps we need a generally accepted "mariner social practice", like waving at a passing vessel,  that visitors can use unoccupied moorings and that they be marked to indicate what their ground tackle is (so visitors can sleep more or less comfortably).  What happens when the owner returns might vary.  Move to a different mooring or anchor? Double up? That may depend upon circumstances. (Time of day, weather, boat sizes...?)  Many harbors are adding permanent moorings so as to avoid damage to seabeds, corals, and fish habitat.  Done properly, this can increase the number of boats the port can handle.  The trick is to not cut off public access.     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

............are EXACTLY what every group of rich assholes that don't want anyone anchoring anywhere they have to look at use.............

I never understood this not wanting boats in ones view, I LOVE transient vessels to come anchor here in Blakely Harbor. I like looking at the various vessels and I have met so many really great people by going out in my skiff and asking about the design of their boat. Part of the joy of having waterfront property is interacting with so many different people and vessels. And it is always a real kick when it turns out the person is someone here on SA. That has happened a number of times. Some of my best pals are people I have met thru SA. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, PaulK said:

Moorings with boats on them are one thing. Moorings that just sit there unoccupied and prevent people from being able to use a harbor are another.  Perhaps we need a generally accepted "mariner social practice", like waving at a passing vessel,  that visitors can use unoccupied moorings and that they be marked to indicate what their ground tackle is (so visitors can sleep more or less comfortably).  What happens when the owner returns might vary.  Move to a different mooring or anchor? Double up? That may depend upon circumstances. (Time of day, weather, boat sizes...?)  Many harbors are adding permanent moorings so as to avoid damage to seabeds, corals, and fish habitat.  Done properly, this can increase the number of boats the port can handle.  The trick is to not cut off public access.     

I agree with one mooring per boat. The tricky issue is say I put a mooring out and put a sign on it "free to use when I am not here". You tie up to it, the chain that I haven't inspected recently rusts through, and your boat hits three other boats and goes up on rocks for a total bill of about $500,000. Am I on the hook for that :o

Or say you put your 100 foot boat on my 100 pound anchor and drag it to the next town. Are you going to put it back?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, kimbottles said:

I never understood this not wanting boats in ones view, I LOVE transient vessels to come anchor here in Blakely Harbor. I like looking at the various vessels and I have met so many really great people by going out in my skiff and asking about the design of their boat. Part of the joy of having waterfront property is interacting with so many different people and vessels. And it is always a real kick when it turns out the person is someone here on SA. That has happened a number of times. Some of my best pals are people I have met thru SA. 

I love boats in my view as well, but I suspect you've never had a gaggle of shit boats in various stages of sinking and disrepair moored in front of you that are a threat to your dock if they break free.

I'll take some photos at the end of my dock today and post them. You'll understand where (some) people are coming from.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ajax said:

I love boats in my view as well, but I suspect you've never had a gaggle of shit boats in various stages of sinking and disrepair moored in front of you that are a threat to your dock if they break free.

I'll take some photos at the end of my dock today and post them. You'll understand where (some) people are coming from.

Actually I have had to deal with that problem numerous times with anchored boats Ajax. Fortunately the Harbor Master here can take action, but it can take some time to get it resolved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, kimbottles said:

Actually I have had to deal with that problem numerous times with anchored boats Ajax. Fortunately the Harbor Master here can take action, but it can take some time to get it resolved.

Ah, ok. So what you mean is, you don't understand why people say they don't want boats in their view, *even when those boats are in good repair and aesthetically pleasing.*

I've met that type and I don't understand them either. I suspect it's some kind of OCD.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I've met that type and I don't understand them either. I suspect it's some kind of OCD.

The word is 'entitlement'

 

1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

 

52 minutes ago, PaulK said:

Many harbors are adding permanent moorings so as to avoid damage to seabeds, corals, and fish habitat.  Done properly, this can increase the number of boats the port can handle.  The trick is to not cut off public access.     

I think this is pretty close to the 'blue sky' scenario. A well administered buoy/permit system would serve numerous goals and groups, and probably ultimately reduce zombie fleets by limiting the ability of private individuals (of the bum or wealthy variety) to use navigable waters as their personal long-term parking lots. Obviously, though, we're a long way from that being possible, in terms of either political sentiment in general or the capacity of the relevant administrative bodies in particular.

 

1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Putting boats on moorings is a centuries old, if not millennia old, tradition. Suddenly this is some crime? 

Come on. I never said it was a crime. I said that in its current form the system is open to abuse, as evidenced by public harbors being used essentially as parking lots for private boats. This is annoying whether the boats in question are shiny Benoceanis 47's named  Billable Hours or mossy half-sunk hulks named Dreamer.

You raise a good point that the question of how to enforce something different is very tricky. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that the current system kind of sucks and had led to many harbors being crapped up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you define "parking lot"? If I bought an Oceanis 47 and put a mooring down in a harbor to keep her on, wouldn't that be exactly what harbors are FOR? Go to almost any harbor in Maine and it will be a full "parking lot" of boats on moorings. What the hell else are people supposed to do with their boats? You could of course build the world's biggest ginormous floating dock marine with dock floats that go up and down 20-40 feet, but then most people presently in the harbor likely could not afford the slips, so you would have a giant bankrupt marina :rolleyes:

You really think all these boats need to be cleared out?

lobsteringsouthwestharbormaine1025200901

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously there's a balance. I can't say exactly what the perfect solution is, but given that this is an internet forum I sure as hell can complain about the problem ;-)

Seriously though, it's not an easy question. But I can say that no, even if it is 'traditional', I don't think it makes sense to allow people to use public space for the long term storage of private property, beyond a certain point. See the earlier analogy about national forests.

And I can say that yes, the photo you posted does represent a 'tragedy of the commons' situation. 

I think we have arrived at the eternal impasse: one person saying the status quo isn't good enough/could be better, and one person saying change is too hard/risky/complicated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

 

lobsteringsouthwestharbormaine1025200901

Somebody better pump that center console in the foreground, that transom is getting close to the waterline!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Breamerly said:

Obviously there's a balance. I can't say exactly what the perfect solution is, but given that this is an internet forum I sure as hell can complain about the problem ;-)

Seriously though, it's not an easy question. But I can say that no, even if it is 'traditional', I don't think it makes sense to allow people to use public space for the long term storage of private property, beyond a certain point. See the earlier analogy about national forests.

And I can say that yes, the photo you posted does represent a 'tragedy of the commons' situation. 

I think we have arrived at the eternal impasse: one person saying the status quo isn't good enough/could be better, and one person saying change is too hard/risky/complicated.

You think Bar Harbor is a tragedy of the commons? This has to be the weirdest thread ever. Are you sure you aren't putting us on? I am 99.999% sure that clearing all the boats out of Maine would be a very unpopular idea at best :rolleyes:
Here is another harbor you can clear out:

image.thumb.png.bbde4a5b5d9809e27fcf0d1e9fa4fe12.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

You think Bar Harbor is a tragedy of the commons? This has to be the weirdest thread ever. Are you sure you aren't putting us on? I am 99.999% sure that clearing all the boats out of Maine would be a very unpopular idea at best :rolleyes:
Here is another harbor you can clear out:

image.thumb.png.bbde4a5b5d9809e27fcf0d1e9fa4fe12.png

Lmao that's obviously not what I'm saying but go off, King.

If you want to mischaracterize what I'm saying and then ridicule the thing you're pretending I'm saying, that reflects on you not me. I've repeatedly clarified myself here, at length, but you keep on this 'so you want to BAN MOORING BUOYS HAHAHA OH MY GOD DID YOU HEAR THAT HE WANTS TO BAN ANCHORING' thing and cool, I guess. Do your thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Breamerly said:

Lmao that's obviously not what I'm saying but go off, King.

If you want to mischaracterize what I'm saying and then ridicule the thing you're pretending I'm saying, that reflects on you not me. I've repeatedly clarified myself here, at length, but you keep on this 'so you want to BAN MOORING BUOYS HAHAHA OH MY GOD DID YOU HEAR THAT HE WANTS TO BAN ANCHORING' thing and cool, I guess. Do your thing.

That is pretty much what you said, you don't believe anyone in that photo has the right to keep a boat on what you term "public property".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I agree with one mooring per boat. The tricky issue is say I put a mooring out and put a sign on it "free to use when I am not here". You tie up to it, the chain that I haven't inspected recently rusts through, and your boat hits three other boats and goes up on rocks for a total bill of about $500,000. Am I on the hook for that :o

Or say you put your 100 foot boat on my 100 pound anchor and drag it to the next town. Are you going to put it back?

Maybe the Harbormaster needs to make sure that all the moorings are inspected regularly so they don't rust through.  Ours does.  Maybe the Harbormaster should direct boats onto properly sized moorings, like the one in South Freeport, ME does. Sometimes a little supervision - which is already authorized -  is all that's needed. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, PaulK said:

Maybe the Harbormaster needs to make sure that all the moorings are inspected regularly so they don't rust through.  Ours does.  Maybe the Harbormaster should direct boats onto properly sized moorings, like the one in South Freeport, ME does. Sometimes a little supervision - which is already authorized -  is all that's needed. 

That DOES happen all over New England where moorings are very common. It happens here in Annapolis too, but outside of that not so much. What I would like to see in Maryland is a permit/sticker system so when a mooring hasn't been used in years, you can track down the owner and confirm it is abandoned and get rid of it.

* We do have permits and regulations for mooring fields. A marina can't just put down 100 moorings at will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

What I would like to see in Maryland is a permit/sticker system so when a mooring hasn't been used in years, you can track down the owner and confirm it is abandoned and get rid of it.

This seems like a very good idea.

32 minutes ago, PaulK said:

Maybe the Harbormaster needs to make sure that all the moorings are inspected regularly so they don't rust through.  Ours does.

Another good one

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

That is pretty much what you said, you don't believe anyone in that photo has the right to keep a boat on what you term "public property".

 

Actually what I said was:

2 hours ago, Breamerly said:

I don't think it makes sense to allow people to use public space for the long term storage of private property, beyond a certain point. 

And:

3 hours ago, Breamerly said:

A well administered buoy/permit system would serve numerous goals and groups,

And:

On 8/21/2020 at 11:30 AM, Breamerly said:
On 8/21/2020 at 11:02 AM, kimbottles said:

According to theory unused moorings are removed (at least here in Bainbridge Island.) The Bainbridge Island Harbor Master oversees our moorings, she is a unarmed member of our Police Department and part of the department’s Marine Patrol. In addition we have volunteer Harbor Stewards in each harbor to assist the Harbor Master. 

Ah, Bainbridge, the nice place. Honestly, that sounds like a pretty good system.

I can simultaneously believe the current system (in the PNW) is flawed AND that in abstract, hogging a bay with buoys is a bit contrary to the spirit of public lands AND that in practice, the best idea is probably to improve upon the current system, rather than abolishing it. These beliefs are not mutually exclusive, even though they are in tension.

What is so hard to grasp about that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/21/2020 at 5:54 AM, Ajax said:

I've heard that in Maine, some evenings you'll hear a voice call down to you from a house on a bluff inviting you to use the mooring that you're sailing past.

This can happen in Washington too.  

 

On 8/22/2020 at 9:48 AM, kimbottles said:

I have also allowed random boaters to use them if they ask first and are respectful

 

20170825_172846.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was me,  or my boat I should say, a couple of years ago.  It was just like what was said above, a voice on shore saying to grab the buoy just as we were setting up to anchor farther out. I really like that anchorage as the park next to your house leads a wonderful trail system which is great after being on the boat for a while.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Ajax said:

I love boats in my view as well, but I suspect you've never had a gaggle of shit boats in various stages of sinking and disrepair moored in front of you that are a threat to your dock if they break free.

I'll take some photos at the end of my dock today and post them. You'll understand where (some) people are coming from.

 

BS 4.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, rcbrds said:

That was me,  or my boat I should say, a couple of years ago.  It was just like what was said above, a voice on shore saying to grab the buoy just as we were setting up to anchor farther out. I really like that anchorage as the park next to your house leads a wonderful trail system which is great after being on the boat for a while.

 

K-43? K-40? I remember lending to that lovely vessel, but don’t remember the model, I am guessing Kettenburg.

(Great looking boats get preference.)

The two Jetties are now connected by a bridge and so the trail system is currently even better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, kimbottles said:

K-43? K-40? I remember lending to that lovely vessel, but don’t remember the model, I am guessing Kettenburg.

(Great looking boats get preference.)

The two Jetties are now connected by a bridge and so the trail system is currently even better.

Kettenburg 41. Hiking on Bainbridge has a certain civilized nature to it, you wouldn't want to get your shorts dusty while resting.

20180907_143149.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the variety that a mooring field brings. Sure, they can tend to collect abandoned and derelict boats, but that's a separate issue from mooring buoys. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

When I was a teenager at university, I spent my student loans on wonderful little Nordica 20. There was no way I could afford a slip, but a mooring let me pay with abundant free time instead. Anyone who thinks a mooring is a free lunch has never used one long term - I was constantly out there checking lines, rowing gear ashore, rowing fuel and water aboard, and so on and so on. 

Fast forward a few years and moorage costs are now inconsequential and worth every penny for the easy convenience, but I still remember the opportunity that mooring buoy gave me. With sailing numbers dwindling, anything to help keep people participating is good in my book.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, andykane said:

I like the variety that a mooring field brings. Sure, they can tend to collect abandoned and derelict boats, but that's a separate issue from mooring buoys. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

When I was a teenager at university, I spent my student loans on wonderful little Nordica 20. There was no way I could afford a slip, but a mooring let me pay with abundant free time instead. Anyone who thinks a mooring is a free lunch has never used one long term - I was constantly out there checking lines, rowing gear ashore, rowing fuel and water aboard, and so on and so on. 

Fast forward a few years and moorage costs are now inconsequential and worth every penny for the easy convenience, but I still remember the opportunity that mooring buoy gave me. With sailing numbers dwindling, anything to help keep people participating is good in my book.

 

The issue is not the value of having a mooring. The OP's original point is that in some harbors the spread of UNUSED moorings keeps people from being able to anchor.  Having a Harbormaster who enables or directs that the moorings be used by visitors might help resolve this problem.  Places like Block Island and Edgartown have moorings placed by the town and the mooring field is actively managed by the Harbormaster.  Fees collected for overnights can more than cover the cost of the operation (though perhaps not this year, with Covid), and the visitor purchases boost the local economy.  It does not have to take huge resources or manpower. Towns in Maine offer moorings with little boxes on sticks stuck in them. Instructions on the box tell you to slip a check for $xx per night made out to the town into the box when you leave. When such town-placed moorings occupy all the space in a harbor it can become difficult to find a spot to anchor. Does the town not have the right to manage its own harbor, though, as it sees fit? If there's a fee and you choose not to pay, you don't have to stay there.  People who visit The Baths on Virgin Gorda (A BVI National Park) by boat are required to use the mooring buoys there. If they're occupied you have to wait or sail on.  Different harbors call for different solutions to this problem. Sailors need to work together to figure out what the best ones are.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites