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Hey, Bob Perry, what do you think of this?


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OK, so I'm sort of duplicating a post I started in general anarchy, but I'm sort of...what? Bemused? "Taken with" ?  Admiring? Don't know what to think? ...about this boat. What say you, Bob (and others!)

OK, the Ed put a SCOTW up on the front page. The lass in question is Holly Martin, and you can find her YouTube channel by looking for "Wind Hippie Sailing".  Cool lass. Her video's smack of the real.

here's her Website:  https://windhippie.com/

and here's the page about her boat: https://windhippie.com/about-my-boat/

It's a Grinde 27, which I have never heard of until today.  There's a sailboatdata page for it. https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/grinde

Here are a few pics of boats.

marsvin-22-ft-kleine-grinde-id60896-4232

Holly with her "Gecko"

img_7663-e1536146381713.jpg?w=1200

 

 

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my name is not Bob, but I like it nonetheless. Especially above water it is a nice looking boat. Not crazy about the swept keep, but I am sure it is not prone to dropping...

Here is a better pic of the rear end:

image.png.809ea34d420cf7ac3afe5ae70b377edf.png

I think it does three things: 1) protect the rudder, 2) contribute to a good hydrodynamic flow, and make the waterline as long as possible. I think aesthetically it worked out really nicely. I also like the bow:

 

image.png.3445142a265eb3c7dc67ee3166a14a1c.png

Pretty boat!

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2 hours ago, Alan H said:

OK, so I'm sort of duplicating a post I started in general anarchy, but I'm sort of...what? Bemused? "Taken with" ?  Admiring? Don't know what to think? ...about this boat. What say you, Bob (and others!)

OK, the Ed put a SCOTW up on the front page. The lass in question is Holly Martin, and you can find her YouTube channel by looking for "Wind Hippie Sailing".  Cool lass. Her video's smack of the real.

here's her Website:  https://windhippie.com/

and here's the page about her boat: https://windhippie.com/about-my-boat/

It's a Grinde 27, which I have never heard of until today.  There's a sailboatdata page for it. https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/grinde

Here are a few pics of boats.

marsvin-22-ft-kleine-grinde-id60896-4232

Holly with her "Gecko"

img_7663-e1536146381713.jpg?w=1200

 

 

The red boat in the top pic is a "Marsvin" (Porpoise). Same designer, but only 22 ft. There were also a "Spaekhugger" (Killer whale) 25 ft model, as well as a "Kaskelot" (Sperm whale) 32 footer. "Grinde", the model i question means Pilot whale. The designer is Peter Bruun.

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Ask a question, and you get answers!   Thanks to everyone, especially Knut Grotzki and "wayupnorth".  I learned something today!

Between this thread and the one I started in GA, more focused on Holly as SCOTW,  I've seen some vids about the various boats in the lineup.  I like 'em!

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55 minutes ago, mathystuff said:

     The first opportunity was a boat that a Viet Nam vet lived aboard in the VI. When I say liveaboard, I must add that consisted of sleeping onboard once the waterfront bars had given him a last call drink and locked the doors behind him in the wee hours of the morning. Sleep it off and get up and work as a plumber the next day and be back at the bar by Happy Hour (3PM), rinse and repeat. The boat was little more that a flop house but surprisingly he would announce on a Full Moon Friday or Sat night that when the bar closed he was sailing the Grungy Grinde to St Croix for the famous Comanche Club Brunch. For such a dirtbag sleaze of a guy the young wannabe sailor girls always jumped at the chance! I signed on for one of those trips more to chase one of the girls than any interest in the boat... Once onboard I was surprised at Ski's (did I mention he was Polish?) sailing skills especially with a crew of these nubile gals. I don't recall anyone spending any appreciable time below other than to dig up a fresh bottle of rum or roll a spliff. The diesel motor was long dead and the little sloop could spin on a dime under sail in the crowded anchorages and once out in the tradewinds really took off on the 35 mile passage. Even though we were departing at 3AM Ski always seemed to make Christiansted right at dawn.

     The hook would go down and everyone would sleep on deck or tiny cockpit until the sun got too high and hot but that was time for the Brunch buffet to open and the Bloody Rum Mary's to commence. Ski seemed to not need any sleep as long as the alcohol was flowing. After brunch a quick beat to Buck Island for a nice dip and then the sail home was a reach at what seemed a pace way over what a 27' boat should be able to achieve. With a well maintained boat with good sails and a clean bottom it would be even greater and I always thought that a Grinde would be a sleeper under the West Indies racing rule.

   Ski didn't show up at the Back Yard in Cruz Bay one monday afternoon for his usual 'session' and no one thought much of it and then again on Tuesday. By the time anyone went out to his Grinde to check up on him he was close to turning into a puddle on the cabin sole from the days of tropic heat. He was greatly loved by the bar and sailing (pretty much synonymous in the Islands) and a sister came down to attend to the burial at sea and other duties. She offered me the boat 'as is where is' for next to nothing but I guess my sailors superstitious nature not to mention the stench that would follow the boat probably forever kept me from buying it. 

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Bob hasn't weighed in yet, on the hull shape, rig, etc.

So I'm just gonna post this.  Holly explains her boat.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciLlemi7T3s
 

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I like the GRINDE boats. Always have. They illustrate the shape you need with a double ender in order to get volume aft. Most DE's lack volume aft and sacrifice sailing length or a "dainty" stern. Bill Garden's OCEANUS was probably the perfect example of this. OCEANUS had maybe the prettiest stern ever on a DE but it did nothing for the speed of the boat. The GRINDE boats have full stern sections not too far off what I gave Frankie. Its not dainty and it's not even pretty but it's what works. The shape is not what your eye wants. The shape is not what the batten wants and what you usually see in DE's. The shape is a bit tortured but it extends sailing length. RED HERRING has a similar stern, just not quite as full as Frankie's.

Imagine a straight, plumb stern post on Frankie and then add an outboard rudder and you'd have something very close to a GRINDE 62.

 

Sliver ready for rig 1.jpg

KBD 3.jpg

Sliver ready for rig 2.jpg

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Duck:

No. For a given displ., given the basic dims of this design, the lowest wetted surface would be achieved with a more arc-like (no, not Noah's) midsection.

Originally I had an arc type midsection, more like what you see in the stern sections w/ zero deadrise, but when the decision was made to go with a timber hull I decided that we would need more depth to the bilge to make the floors more effective, i.e. deeper. To do this I added deadrise and the result is the shape you see now. In retrospect it was a very good idea. We used that added depth to make the s.s. floor system work to support the keel loads and isolate those loads from the shell.

floors.jpg

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On 8/26/2020 at 1:21 PM, Bob Perry said:

Duck:

No. For a given displ., given the basic dims of this design, the lowest wetted surface would be achieved with a more arc-like (no, not Noah's) midsection.

Originally I had an arc type midsection, more like what you see in the stern sections w/ zero deadrise, but when the decision was made to go with a timber hull I decided that we would need more depth to the bilge to make the floors more effective, i.e. deeper. To do this I added deadrise and the result is the shape you see now. In retrospect it was a very good idea. We used that added depth to make the s.s. floor system work to support the keel loads and isolate those loads from the shell.

floors.jpg

Bob, 
Please be cautious 
Have you checked with SloopJonB on this?  Are you sure you know what you are doing?
Id hate to see you destroy resale value with this design. 

  On 7/23/2020 at 9:56 AM, SloopJonB said:
 Every boat I've ever heard of with a steel grid has eventually had to have it replaced. 
 I wouldn't go near one.

 

 

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I suspect their’s a difference in Sloop’s comment likely referring to the more common usage of galvanized steel, and associated lack of maintenance shown by the average used boat owner, as opposed to Bob’s stainless steel grid, and Kim B’s maintenance...

 

 

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5 hours ago, Crash said:

I suspect their’s a difference in Sloop’s comment likely referring to the more common usage of galvanized steel, and associated lack of maintenance shown by the average used boat owner, as opposed to Bob’s stainless steel grid, and Kim B’s maintenance...

You've chosen to ignore content by Cristoforo. Options

Apparently he's still sulking.

You're exactly right Crash - a S/S grid or floors are very different animals than mild steel, even if galvanized or worse yet, laminated into the hull.

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On 8/26/2020 at 12:21 PM, Bob Perry said:

Duck:

No. For a given displ., given the basic dims of this design, the lowest wetted surface would be achieved with a more arc-like (no, not Noah's) midsection.

Originally I had an arc type midsection, more like what you see in the stern sections w/ zero deadrise, but when the decision was made to go with a timber hull I decided that we would need more depth to the bilge to make the floors more effective, i.e. deeper. To do this I added deadrise and the result is the shape you see now. In retrospect it was a very good idea. We used that added depth to make the s.s. floor system work to support the keel loads and isolate those loads from the shell.

floors.jpg

Not to be dense but is that for just over the keel?  The pipe sections for keel bolts?  Are there two full length longitudinals they bolt too then regular floor laminated in fore and aft sections?

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46 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Not to be dense but is that for just over the keel?  The pipe sections for keel bolts?  Are there two full length longitudinals they bolt too then regular floor laminated in fore and aft sections?

Yes to all your questions  (I followed the entire build thread, it was a great thread).

Somewhere around here are some photos: 

 

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1 hour ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Not to be dense but is that for just over the keel?  The pipe sections for keel bolts?  Are there two full length longitudinals they bolt too then regular floor laminated in fore and aft sections?

I still think they should have been polished. :ph34r:

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The bronze bit was facetious as Kim is a wood boat nut, would probably be cheeper to cast and machine than weld like the SS either way way more $$.  It looks insanely strong, having only seen the boat in the water hard to wrap my head around the stresses the grid is compensating for.

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19 hours ago, Crash said:

I suspect their’s a difference in Sloop’s comment likely referring to the more common usage of galvanized steel, and associated lack of maintenance shown by the average used boat owner, as opposed to Bob’s stainless steel grid, and Kim B’s maintenance...

 

 

Then please prove Sloopy's claim that  

  On 7/23/2020 at 9:56 AM, SloopJonB said:
 Every boat I've ever heard of with a (galvanized or mild steel)  grid has eventually had to have it replaced. 
 I wouldn't go near one.

Of course 'every boat' in Sloopy's world might only be one.  Or only one he's dreamt about 

The boys in Pietarsaari really need to know about this! 

 

 

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3 hours ago, bridhb said:

How much "engineering" went into that grid system or was it something like "this thing will still be here after the world ends"?  That is a beautiful boat.

I'm guessing that Tim Nolan carefully engineered that grid to still be here after the end of the world.

Steve

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17 minutes ago, Panope said:

I'm guessing that Tim Nolan carefully engineered that grid to still be here after the end of the world.

Steve

That has got to be confidence inspiring to pull up the floor boards and see those keeping the keel in place.  What do the chainplates look like on that boat?  That thing must be a joy to sail.

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I'm guessing cast bronze floors would cost more than fabricated SS but am curious if that is in fact true. As Russel mentioned SS is stronger than bronze which  means the SS structure could weigh less than one in bronze.

I see neither Kim nor Bob settling for a blunt hammer more is better approach to engineering them.

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Kim gave me a tour of that boat at his dock and I swear he reminded me of Rumpelstiltskin or Gollum when he lifted the cabin sole to show me the shining array of stainless steel floors in that photo. You could have eaten out of that bilge and like someone said earlier salt water will probably never touch the metalwork. I assure you it is not cardboard derivative.

    What you don't see is the substantial flange at the top of the deep keel fin that matches the hole pattern of the grid. Tim Nolan really outdid himself on this configuration. The grid also bolts into the deep longitudinal webs that also form the fronts of the settees.  The grid is surprisingly light at 182 K when you compare to the lever arm of the keel fin to the ballast bulb.

No CYNTHIA WOODS here!

image.thumb.png.cb5bae6ad6d7048d04ffc8364376ebd3.png

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9 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Kim gave me a tour of that boat at his dock and I swear he reminded me of Rumpelstiltskin or Gollum when he lifted the cabin sole to show me the shining array of stainless steel floors in that photo. You could have eaten out of that bilge and like someone said earlier salt water will probably never touch the metalwork. I assure you it is not cardboard derivative.

    What you don't see is the substantial flange at the top of the deep keel fin that matches the hole pattern of the grid. Tim Nolan really outdid himself on this configuration. The grid also bolts into the deep longitudinal webs that also form the fronts of the settees.  The grid is surprisingly light at 182 K when you compare to the lever arm of the keel fin to the ballast bulb.

No CYNTHIA WOODS here!

image.thumb.png.cb5bae6ad6d7048d04ffc8364376ebd3.png

Uh oh...the last one is in backwards!!

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27 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

I'm guessing cast bronze floors would cost more than fabricated SS but am curious if that is in fact true. As Russel mentioned SS is stronger than bronze which  means the SS structure could weigh less than one in bronze.

I see neither Kim nor Bob settling for a blunt hammer more is better approach to engineering them.

I'm sure if it motivated Pete Langley could come up with a cheeper stronger lighter alloy one, just to prove a point....but in all seriousness the SS grid is some impressive engineering.

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2 hours ago, bridhb said:

That has got to be confidence inspiring to pull up the floor boards and see those keeping the keel in place.  What do the chainplates look like on that boat?  That thing must be a joy to sail.

I forgot what the chainplates look like, but I remember clearly the joy of sailing on her.

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18 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Thanks Salazar will check it out.  sloop I'm surprised Kim went for SS instead of silicon bronze being the wood boat guy he is....

The engineer Tim Nolan designed the grid. I let him chose the material.

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7 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

The bronze bit was facetious as Kim is a wood boat nut, would probably be cheeper to cast and machine than weld like the SS either way way more $$.  It looks insanely strong, having only seen the boat in the water hard to wrap my head around the stresses the grid is compensating for.

Ten foot draft with 7100# ballast bulb at bottom of fin keel. And I told Tim Nolan I did not want the keel to ever fall off no matter what. He designed her for ocean racing.

F3997666-04B3-4F40-AD82-D70D27C9C656.jpeg

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6 hours ago, bridhb said:

How much "engineering" went into that grid system or was it something like "this thing will still be here after the world ends"?  That is a beautiful boat.

Tim Nolan is a world class marine engineer, it is only strong enough to fall off large waves in the open ocean (which means it might indeed survive The end of the world).

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2 hours ago, Autonomous said:

I'm guessing cast bronze floors would cost more than fabricated SS but am curious if that is in fact true. As Russel mentioned SS is stronger than bronze which  means the SS structure could weigh less than one in bronze.

I see neither Kim nor Bob settling for a blunt hammer more is better approach to engineering them.

True statement, we hired the best marine engineer around.

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30 minutes ago, Panope said:

I forgot what the chainplates look like, but I remember clearly the joy of sailing on her.

The chain plates are water jet cut titanium bolted into heavy duty foam core composite bulkheads by Turn Point design.  (Maybe not necessary but just because we could. We really had fun building this boat because we had access to the best people possible.)

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6 minutes ago, kimbottles said:

The chain plates are water jet cut titanium bolted into heavy duty foam core composite bulkheads by Turn Point design.  (Maybe not necessary but just because we could. We really had fun building this boat because we had access to the best people possible.)

"We really had fun building this boat".....The results certainly show that.

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40 minutes ago, kimbottles said:

Ten foot draft with 7100# ballast bulb at bottom of fin keel. And I told Tim Nolan I did not want the keel to ever fall off no matter what. He designed her for ocean racing.

F3997666-04B3-4F40-AD82-D70D27C9C656.jpeg

The antidote to Cheeki Rafiki

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I forgot to mention the mast step is built the same way as the grid. We have a jacking mast. Erik Bentzen put 5000 pounds of pressure on the mast and we did not hear a creak just nothing, complete silence. I sail the boat with 3600 pounds on the mast. The grinders that hold the grid and mast step are tied into all interior structural parts and extend about ten feet fore and aft beyond the grid and step. The entire interior is knitted together into one piece. The boat is crazy strong.

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3 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Kim gave me a tour of that boat at his dock and I swear he reminded me of Rumpelstiltskin or Gollum when he lifted the cabin sole to show me the shining array of stainless steel floors in that photo. You could have eaten out of that bilge and like someone said earlier salt water will probably never touch the metalwork. I assure you it is not cardboard derivative.

I had the same experience. This boat is the result of a lot of love and care and pride for Kim and everyone else involved. The best of the best. You really see that when you see the boat in person with him. 

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1 hour ago, SASSAFRASS said:

All comments made in jest. I have never been on board but checked out at the WBF the first year we were in it.  Lovely boat.

Come visit someday (after I recover from my current cancer treatment) and I will give you the same tour I gave Ron Holland several years ago.

He liked the construction details. He called her a “proper sailing yacht”. I never think of her as a yacht, but I am not qualified to disagree with Ron on any facet of yacht design.

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I looked in my photos and was surprised when I realized that I had never taken a picture of the entire SS grid including mast step. So when I was out visiting FRANKIE today I pulled up the sole and took a few. The Girders extend past the forward berth.

A6FF1E46-D826-4BE4-A497-04555E2726FC.jpeg

38A47408-262F-4EE3-94E2-0F430FA22FC3.jpeg

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On 8/31/2020 at 8:33 PM, kimbottles said:

I looked in my photos and was surprised when I realized that I had never taken a picture of the entire SS grid including mast step. So when I was out visiting FRANKIE today I pulled up the sole and took a few. The Girders extend past the forward berth.

38A47408-262F-4EE3-94E2-0F430FA22FC3.jpeg

Very impressive piece of engineering Kim. But this is what happens when you invite nosy rubberneckers inside your boat for a look: what the heck are those SS or chromed spirals on the shelf behind the starboard setee?

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12 hours ago, Jim in Halifax said:

Very impressive piece of engineering Kim. But this is what happens when you invite nosy rubberneckers inside your boat for a look: what the heck are those SS or chromed spirals on the shelf behind the starboard setee?

They get hung around on deck to keep the seagulls away, so far they seem to work pretty well on the gulls, not so well on some of the other smaller birds.

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On 9/1/2020 at 1:33 AM, kimbottles said:

I looked in my photos and was surprised when I realized that I had never taken a picture of the entire SS grid including mast step. So when I was out visiting FRANKIE today I pulled up the sole and took a few. The Girders extend past the forward berth.

A6FF1E46-D826-4BE4-A497-04555E2726FC.jpeg

38A47408-262F-4EE3-94E2-0F430FA22FC3.jpeg

Nice, not everybody can be proud of what's underneath the floorboards!

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On 9/2/2020 at 7:14 PM, kimbottles said:

They get hung around on deck to keep the seagulls away, so far they seem to work pretty well on the gulls, not so well on some of the other smaller birds.

Once the eyeballs are gone, there's nothing for the gulls in a hanging body.

But watch out for the dire corbies. They're nasty!

FB- Doug

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