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SORC - The Glory Years?


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6 hours ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Where is Sweet Okole? I haven't seen her on SF Bay in a long, long time.

She was in last summer’s TransPac

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11 hours ago, some dude said:

Are you sure?  I thought Terrorist was older?  Great resto, though

Sweet Okole is also very well cared for-same owner for a long long time now

Terrorist was new for the 1974 1 Ton N.A.'s in St. Pete. I don't recall any fractional rigs in that fleet or for some Ton Cups after, so I'm pretty sure Sweet Okole is a few years younger.

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32 minutes ago, A3A said:

Terrorist was new for the 1974 1 Ton N.A.'s in St. Pete. I don't recall any fractional rigs in that fleet or for some Ton Cups after, so I'm pretty sure Sweet Okole is a few years younger.

Yes upon further head scratching they were a few years apart   I saw them both at Snead Island Boat Works prepping for the SORC 

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1 minute ago, Rasputin22 said:

I knew I left those shorts on a boat somewhere...

Thanks for the memories Bravo. 

I was looking for a Salty Goose , Bob Derector ... a complete  man ! intimidating from afar... it was so cool before the “rockstar “ era . You could walk the dock before or after a race and casually strike up a conversation with, Ted Hood, Lowell North , Ted Turner on and on

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I think this is a multigenerational period - most of the old timers now gone and the once young kids now fully gray and telling war stories by the digital stove.

How many times did Windward Passage race the SORC series "the glory years" 1969 to ...Here she is in 1982 sailing out of Tampa.

post-2317-063886200%201318623911.jpg

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41 minutes ago, Black Jack said:

I think this is a multigenerational period - most of the old timers now gone and the once young kids now fully gray and telling war stories by the digital stove.

How many times did Windward Passage race the SORC series "the glory years" 1969 to ...Here she is in 1982 sailing out of Tampa.

post-2317-063886200%201318623911.jpg

I threw my sea bag on the deck of WP in MoBay as a 20 year old turning 21 transiting  the PC in 1969 on the way to LA for the TransPac...Bob Johnson flew me out to Lahaina for the delivery home after the race, plus - minus 10k miles aboard that year. I’d love to go aboard again and have a walk through seeing if my old pipe berth is still there 

IMG_0013.jpg

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On 8/25/2020 at 12:18 PM, stayoutofthemiddle said:

Before the days of email and mobile devices so being gone from the office that long was probably very noticeable! 

No paid sailors in IOR glory days. 

Ever. It was against the law.

The driver of the boat would find the keys to a new BMW in his gear bag. The rest of the crew, keys to a new US car.

If the naviguesser won, a new corvette and the hotel key to the owner's wife's room.

A *friend of mine* told me that. Damn I love celestial navigation and spot on DR.

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1 hour ago, longy said:

We won our class in '84, I seemed to have never picked up my keys?

Be glad that was the year they were awarding Plymouth Horizon Turismos....,  Out of curiosity, which boat? Razzle that year was pretty cool with the lifting keel.

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On 8/27/2020 at 10:20 AM, tizak said:

Sailed with Dave quite a bit on Taxi - loved sailing with him. Very quiet and very efficient. We all quickly dialed into his style and I think it made for a strong feeling of team connectedness. We watched everything and never spoke above a whisper (and only then for a brief sentence or question) unless Dave asked us to. Can only remember him yelling once - at the owner (no names here) during Big Boat. The statement was something like "If you're not going to listen to me then we're going in, I've got better things to do." The owner explained that he'd misunderstood what Dave was trying to get him to do and after that all was smooth and efficient. Think we won three or four Big Boats with that team - great experiences.

He trained us on a J-105 for the S.F. North Americans. Worked us hard on a lot of very complex maneuvers all aimed at typical Bay winds, tides and a 40 boat fleet. The crew work gelled quickly and, again, made for a strong team.

Juan Jews?!

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SO CRAZY thought ... what would a One Design Farr 40 or the Melges 32 or a typical TP52 rate under the old IOR rule?

 

Would the TP 52 be a maxi or above (Rating of 70) the M32 close to the IOR 50's of the glory days.....

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16 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

I threw my sea bag on the deck of WP in MoBay as a 20 year old turning 21 transiting  the PC in 1969 on the way to LA for the TransPac...Bob Johnson flew me out to Lahaina for the delivery home after the race, plus - minus 10k miles aboard that year. I’d love to go aboard again and have a walk through seeing if my old pipe berth is still there 

IMG_0013.jpg

Looking good there Tad. What’s your waist size today? 48”

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13 minutes ago, FINS said:

SO CRAZY thought ... what would a One Design Farr 40 or the Melges 32 or a typical TP52 rate under the old IOR rule?

 

Would the TP 52 be a maxi or above (Rating of 70) the M32 close to the IOR 50's of the glory days.....

One way to  get a sense of this is to think about how IOR treated boats w/out hull "distortions", and high SA/D, at the time (i.e., sleds, SC designs, Olsons, etc.) - they rated near their overall length. Another is to consider the equivalency between say PHRF handicaps and IOR ratings. Under PHRF, a Farr 40OD is about the same, maybe a touch faster, than a late IOR 50 - which rated 40.0. Based on that, without considering "penalties" for C-fiber or anything I'd bet a F40 OD would have an IOR rating of about 42.0-43.0.  A Melges 32, which is faster than a two tonner (IOR 32.0) but slower than a 50, would be be about 34-35.0 IOR.   Non-planing conditions of course.

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35 minutes ago, FINS said:

SO CRAZY thought ... what would a One Design Farr 40 or the Melges 32 or a typical TP52 rate under the old IOR rule?

 

Would the TP 52 be a maxi or above (Rating of 70) the M32 close to the IOR 50's of the glory days.....

I can not find my old notes but I think these are close ...

IOR Maxi rated 70.0 = -80 to -90 PHRF
SC 70 rated 70.0 IOR = -75 PHRF

TP 52 PHRF Gen 4 to 6 is like -90 to -99

BUT I am sure the aft girth measurements , no bumps, WL length, And 15,000 lb displacement (S&S 54 was like 60,000 lbs, SC70 at 34,000/66 feet) would have them rating above 70.0 IOR....


 

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22 minutes ago, Al Paca said:

Looking good there Tad. What’s your waist size today? 48”

Lol... I celebrated my 40th wedding adversary with my wife on a trip to Hawaii, posed on the dock next to this photo and pulled off my shirt, stuck my belly out and tried to recreate the pose.. I’ll see if I can find it 

:D

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17 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

I threw my sea bag on the deck of WP in MoBay as a 20 year old turning 21 transiting  the PC in 1969 on the way to LA for the TransPac...Bob Johnson flew me out to Lahaina for the delivery home after the race, plus - minus 10k miles aboard that year. I’d love to go aboard again and have a walk through seeing if my old pipe berth is still there 

IMG_0013.jpg

I very well may have met you in the Canal Zone. I was 7 years old and came aboard Windward Passage. My father, a Panama Canal pilot, in his late 20s brought me along after meeting some of the skipper and crew to give advice in prep. I loved WP as it was like a sailing spaceship with a bunch of proud crew aboard. We chased you through Gatun lake for a couple miles as WP made the passage. In Cristobal - One of you gave me a sailing magazine that had the Mull 30, Lively Lady in which had done well in the SORC. I ended up holding on to the magazine for years and the Mull got tucked into my subconscious. When I found Lively Lady in need of serious help in Bodega Bay, I was able to rebalance my youthful wants with with my passion for good sailing boats. 

Glad you got the chance to crew on WP, the thrill rides of a lifetime and make life long friends along the way. You inspired a few kids along the way. I bet you still do.

 

Lively Lady - returning after SORC success. Many of the crew from race aboard. Diane Beeston photo.

getImage.jpg

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Awesome thread. I was barely walking during these years but grew up admiring some of these legendary boats as they were put to pasture.

Here’s a SORC winner...the first cored boat built in N America, or so legend has it.

82A6F856-E914-4133-9A76-EFECF3370A9E.thumb.jpeg.1ba9e8e9e8af3354830ad8a5da3fad4a.jpeg

http://www.bruckmannyachts.com/index.php/company/red-jacket/


And here is some additional history about this yacht’s significance in the earliest years or even the birth of C&C Yachts.
 

https://ontariosailing.ca/media_lib/PDFs/Events/COS/Legends_of_Ontario_Sailing_Award__Rob_Mazza_Speech.pdf

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5 hours ago, Sean said:

Anybody else there in ‘79? Brutal series. Lost two souls that year. 

That would have been the crash jibe on the S&S46 Obsession killing the kite trimmer and then the man overboard on Piranha S&S48 if I remember correctly. Obsession had to sail back with the body.

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5 hours ago, Sean said:

Anybody else there in ‘79? Brutal series. Lost two souls that year. 

Yes, tragic.  After the bn was lost off Gem we had a rule at North Sails, you pee IN THE COCKPIT when it has blowing a hoolie.  did SORC w/ John Buchan on the 42' Peterson Glory, also anyone remember Winsome Gold (David (Daisy) May)?  42' Dubois aluminum, painted RR Gold with a dark blue deck, it was like an oven down below.  We broke our rudder in the Ocean Triangle Race that the pro was lost off Gem, it was about as nasty as the Gulf Stream can get.  A NY 48 took us in tow after we tried to sail home from the Bahama side and couldn't do it, I remember Billy Edgcome was on the boat, helped me get towing lines set up and stayed up to keep chafe gear on.  CG estimated the seas at 20', getting the tow line passed to us was quite a feat, from the crest to the trough was up at the first spreaders.  We got back to Liqourdale, installed a new rudder and made the Maimi Nassau Race and Nassau buoy race.  Those were quite the days.  Yup, Obsession, Robbie Doyle was sailing on her, very sad times.  I wish we could sit on the bed in some motel and listen to the stories we could tell.

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7 minutes ago, XPRO said:

That would have been the crash jibe on the S&S46 Obsession killing the kite trimmer and then the man overboard on Piranha S&S48 if I remember correctly. Obsession had to sail back with the body.

Tom Curnow and Tom Curtis. God rest their souls. 

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45 minutes ago, Sean said:

I believe the losses were off Obsession and Piranha. 

Correct ... Lessons taught to all the young hands in Detroit in the early 80s... Pretty tough read.

https://www.nytimes.com/1979/02/13/archives/2d-sorc-yachtsman-lost-despite-rescue-try.html

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5 hours ago, Sean said:

Yep. Built in ‘74 I believe. It was Ted’s favorite Robin. 

I sailed on her when she was Abino Robin, owned by Al Bernel.  Al was an awesome guy, gave a lot of us who were teenagers our first taste of a serious racing yacht, and all that meant.  I can't remember the exact year, maybe '75 or '76, after the Lake Ontario Race, he had four of us bring the boat back from Rochester, through the Welland Canal, to Buffalo Yacht Club Point Abino station.  I was the oldest guy on the boat, either 18 or 19.  Perfect east breeze from Rochester to Port Weller, we flew the main, kite and blooper for about 30 miles.  You'll like this blast from the past.

 

https://vault.si.com/vault/1979/02/26/and-so-now-we-are-seven-robin-had-reached-an-advanced-age-in-the-sorc-but-after-several-appearances-under-different-names-for-different-owners-she-was-doing-her-thing-again

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22 minutes ago, PeterHuston said:

I sailed on her when she was Abino Robin, owned by Al Bernel.  Al was an awesome guy, gave a lot of us who were teenagers our first taste of a serious racing yacht, and all that meant.  I can't remember the exact year, maybe '75 or '76, after the Lake Ontario Race, he had four of us bring the boat back from Rochester, through the Welland Canal, to Buffalo Yacht Club Point Abino station.  I was the oldest guy on the boat, either 18 or 19.  Perfect east breeze from Rochester to Port Weller, we flew the main, kite and blooper for about 30 miles.  You'll like this blast from the past.

 

https://vault.si.com/vault/1979/02/26/and-so-now-we-are-seven-robin-had-reached-an-advanced-age-in-the-sorc-but-after-several-appearances-under-different-names-for-different-owners-she-was-doing-her-thing-again

Thanks Peter. I still have a copy of that. 

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  • 7 months later...

Reminiscences, eh?  I was a Tech dinghy & M-20 racer in the midwest, decided to hitch down to St. Pete in '71 to learn about big boat racing.  I had a sort-of intro to Improbable, and hoped to crew on her, but she was late getting to FL and I (panicking) made a deal with an Ericson 32 for the Lauderdale race.  The owner got nervous in the norther that came through, and we retired at Key West.  So I made a pier head jump to a Redline 41 and stayed with here until arriving in Nassau.  Got to see the hot stuff that was appearing with the IOR and hob-nob with several BNs.  Flew home (on my own nickel) and needed to borrow $ to pay off the last cab ride home. 

Pete Barrett referred me to a new C&C 30's owner, so I & several dinghy racers did the '72 Chicago series with them and, when we took Chicago Boat Of The Year, the owner promised to take her down to the SORC.  On the way down, the trucker damaged the top of the mast, we had a new section welded on, and all of our carefully-marked turnbuckle settings were screwed.  In the Venice race, we tacked down the bay and cranked on the lee turnbuckles to get the mast to stand straight, putting cotter pins in as we rounded the sea buoy.  The Lauderdale race brought another norther.  We got our heads handed to us, never got the tune sorted out.

So I went back in '74 and sailed the Lauderdale race with an Ericson 32-2 and got whacked again with a norther.  After that I stayed in the midwest, racing Intl. 470s @ home & big boats in Chicago.

The best times were watching the development of boats under the IOR, seeing fast boats get whupped  and replaced the next year by faster ones, and hanging out with BNs and dope-smoking California sailors, getting to follow Pete Barrett and to meet Ted Turner, Dick Deaver, Ted Jones, Lowell North & the like. One day I'll haul out the stack of boat photos I collected those years ...

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Worked w/ Peter Barrett, a true gentleman, generous to a fault and a fierce competitor as well.  Miss those days but have amazing fond memories of too many rum and cokes in Nassau (and other locations), going to a titty bar in Ft. Liquordale where we dragged Brit Chance along one night, not sure he opened his eyes, prepping in Miamarina etc. etc. etc.

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On 8/25/2020 at 6:31 PM, nota said:

a buddy got on one year with ted to do SORC AS A DECK APE

 mid 70's no pay

he had a bit of  bay racing but not a lot prior off shore time maybe one SORC or part of one

HE SAID TED YELLED SO MUCH IT WAS NOT MUCH FUN

My dad used to sail out to the islands that border Tampa Bay with the Gulf of Mexico. I went along until leaving home in 1963. Got to see Ondine(s), Kiola(s), Hoot Mon, Robin(s). Good times.

But Dad swore to his dying day that he heard a post 1968 conversation between an SORC racer short tacking out the ship channel and a tug boat. It seems that the tugs change from pushing a barge to pulling with a long hawser while in the lumpy Gulf. It takes a while to set it up.

On the VHF radio Dad heard the skipper call the tug and tell him it would be worth his while to sink that tow hawser.  Dad says he saw smoke belch out of the tug's stack and it backed down a ways. The sailboat tacked and sailed between the barge and tug.

Not saying who Dad recognized as the voice on the VHF. But note the quote that this comment is attached to.

Dave Ellis

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1 hour ago, sailwriter said:

My dad used to sail out to the islands that border Tampa Bay with the Gulf of Mexico. I went along until leaving home in 1963. Got to see Ondine(s), Kiola(s), Hoot Mon, Robin(s). Good times.

But Dad swore to his dying day that he heard a post 1968 conversation between an SORC racer short tacking out the ship channel and a tug boat. It seems that the tugs change from pushing a barge to pulling with a long hawser while in the lumpy Gulf. It takes a while to set it up.

On the VHF radio Dad heard the skipper call the tug and tell him it would be worth his while to sink that tow hawser.  Dad says he saw smoke belch out of the tug's stack and it backed down a ways. The sailboat tacked and sailed between the barge and tug.

Not saying who Dad recognized as the voice on the VHF. But note the quote that this comment is attached to.

Dave Ellis

Turner did that on Long Island Sound and I believe he was racing American Eagle, early 1970's

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2 minutes ago, sailglobal said:

Turner did that on Long Island Sound and I believe he was racing American Eagle, early 1970's

And sometimes it didn't work out so well.  I know of a Cal40 who tried that on LIS during a drifter.  He was going too slow and got scared of being run over by the barge. So they bailed but then tried to swing in behind to "draft" the  and got caught in the undertow behind the barge and sucked up against the stern.  Much, much damage before they got out of there.  

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3 hours ago, sailglobal said:

Turner did that on Long Island Sound and I believe he was racing American Eagle, early 1970's

yep, it was American Eagle.  I always wondered if the tug captain got a "reward." Pretty easy to figure out which of the couple of tug companies back then.

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On 8/29/2020 at 7:35 PM, PeterHuston said:

I sailed on her when she was Abino Robin, owned by Al Bernel.  Al was an awesome guy, gave a lot of us who were teenagers our first taste of a serious racing yacht, and all that meant.  I can't remember the exact year, maybe '75 or '76, after the Lake Ontario Race, he had four of us bring the boat back from Rochester, through the Welland Canal, to Buffalo Yacht Club Point Abino station.  I was the oldest guy on the boat, either 18 or 19.  Perfect east breeze from Rochester to Port Weller, we flew the main, kite and blooper for about 30 miles.  You'll like this blast from the past.

 

https://vault.si.com/vault/1979/02/26/and-so-now-we-are-seven-robin-had-reached-an-advanced-age-in-the-sorc-but-after-several-appearances-under-different-names-for-different-owners-she-was-doing-her-thing-again

Bernel, stopped coming to LO when Norm Manson had a new Spirit in '76. They were good pals and after, I think 3, Lake Ontario Internationals and a few LYRA's decided the trip wasn't worth it. Spirit had a sistership, Terrier from RCYC with Gordon Fisher, the 3 of them would sit below Spirit, which had cushions and get snot drunk together after the finish.

Al joined us for the east coast '79 SORC races, his decision to skip the west coast races worked out as we broke Spirit bad in the FLL race and had to pull out at Ft Myers. Word had just come over the VHF about Obsession. It was a tough year down there. During the 79 LO International another soul was lost. 

When Al passed, our crew was really down about that. Our toast after a tough races became, "Al would have liked that race, cheers!"

 

 

 

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On 8/29/2020 at 1:45 PM, Sean said:

Yep. Built in ‘74 I believe. It was Ted’s favorite Robin. 

Was aboard the Carter 36 Crocodile for all of the 75 Circuit.  We had a one-ton match racing series beforehand; Ted raced her in this, then switched to a 2-Ton Robin for the circuit.  Fun series for the one tonners.

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16 minutes ago, kurthoehne said:

My ride in '84 as Agape Too II. Beast of a bow. 

Might that have been Terry Kohler's boat? 

If so, it did well in the 84 Mac with Pete Barrett aboard.  I got a ride from the island to Pewaukee in Kohler's Learjet, which was tres cool.

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6 minutes ago, kurthoehne said:

It was indeed Terry's boat. I sailed the SORC, can't remember if I did the '84 Mac with them but may have. Later he chartered Invictus and I was on a Super Mac for that. 

I sailed that race on Thirsty Tiger, a Carter 40 (6th in section, 38th OA) and, as usual, there were no plans to get us back south.  Friends told me that Pete was on Terry's boat and there might be a possible ride.  So I asked Pete, and he stuck his head below, asked Terry if there was room for one more, and there was. I was tickled by Terry & Mary's blue chambray workshirts with the boat's name embroidered bowling-shirt-style on the back, not at all "we're Chicago YC Yachtsmen" with snazzy polos or gold-embroidered patches on blazer pockets.  Learjets are REALLY fast; barely had time to finish a beer before we landed in Pewaukee.

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Terry and I drifted far apart on politics (rating and real politics) but I enjoyed the hell out of sailing with him and Pete. Terry's gone....long live Terry!

On 4/16/2021 at 10:39 AM, A CheeseHead said:

I sailed that race on Thirsty Tiger, a Carter 40 (6th in section, 38th OA) and, as usual, there were no plans to get us back south.  Friends told me that Pete was on Terry's boat and there might be a possible ride.  So I asked Pete, and he stuck his head below, asked Terry if there was room for one more, and there was. I was tickled by Terry & Mary's blue chambray workshirts with the boat's name embroidered bowling-shirt-style on the back, not at all "we're Chicago YC Yachtsmen" with snazzy polos or gold-embroidered patches on blazer pockets.  Learjets are REALLY fast; barely had time to finish a beer before we landed in Pewaukee.

 

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29 minutes ago, kurthoehne said:

Terry and I drifted far apart on politics (rating and real politics) but I enjoyed the hell out of sailing with him and Pete. Terry's gone....long live Terry!

 

Never sailed with Terry, but a fellow 470 sailor once worked for him.  She was about as opposite politically as it could be, but she thought he was the smartest man she'd ever worked for.  I sailed with Pete on a C&C 30 on the '73 St.Pete-Lauderdale that he'd sold many $$ of sails to and on the 1/2 Tonner he'd entered in the '72 Championships in April.  Got terminally sunburned (the sun's notably higher & hotter in Florida in April then it is in Wisconsin, I discovered) and the other 1/2 Tonners cleaned our clock (boat not designed to that rating at all).

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On 4/16/2021 at 12:23 PM, kurthoehne said:

 Later he chartered Invictus and I was on a Super Mac for that. 

1987? Was Buddy Wenzel with you guys?

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On 8/29/2020 at 1:00 PM, Sean said:

Those were indeed the days!

This was my ride in 1979 -

 

A93EA083-D2A2-4282-9636-5904C4F29FDA.jpeg

That's the hull my boat is based on, Hood Gulfstar 40.  Unusual form below the water.

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A lot of the SORC boats for St Pete races were launched from Snead Island Boat Works. They have a picture of Imp in the office.

 

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ACADIA's owner
 
Burt Henry Keenan died peacefully in Hilton Head, South Carolina on April 22, 2021, at the age of 81. He was born in New Orleans, the son of the late Mary Lee Baker Keenan and Walter Cook Keenan, Jr. He was preceded in death by his brother Walter Cook Keenan III and his wife Gail Perrin Keenan. He is survived by his wife, Carol Schwaner Keenan; his daughters Lucille Baker Keenan (Drew Bruch) and Kristen Cook Keenan; his son, Michael Crawford Keenan (Carmel); and stepsons Harrod Blank and Beau Blank. He is also survived by his grandchildren Bennett Keenan, Abigail Keenan, David Keenan, Audrey Goldfield, Cora Lee Goldfield and Theo Bruch, and his wife from a previous marriage, Velma Crawford. Burt attended Audubon School, Isidore Newman School and Alcee Fortier High School before receiving his BA and MBA from Tulane University. A lifelong entrepreneur and venture capital investor, Burt began his career with George Engine Company before moving with his family to Lafayette where he founded Offshore Logistics, which grew to become one of the leading service companies to the offshore oil exploration and production industry worldwide. After Offshore Logistics, Burt returned to New Orleans and joined Chaffe & Associates, where he was instrumental in the success of companies including Telescan, Independent Energy and Compressco. In addition to his own ventures, Burt mentored numerous entrepreneurs and innovators in ventures ranging from documentary films to technology start-ups. Burt was an accomplished sailor and campaigned a series of custom-built racing sailboats crewed mostly by his friends from Southern Yacht Club and the Gulf Coast. His first commission, Southerly, set a course record in the 1975 Isla Mujeres Race which stood for many years. Later, with his three racing Acadias, Burt sailed to victory in the 1978 Newport-Bermuda Race and 1980 Southern Ocean Racing Circuit, and scored highly in the storm-wracked 1979 Fastnet Race. These and other major event victories earned Burt and Acadia's crew the coveted World Ocean Racing Championship title in 1980. After taking a break from racing in the early 1980s, Burt built a cruising-oriented Acadia which he sailed throughout the North Atlantic basin, from Labrador to Trinidad and almost everywhere in between. Burt never stopped racing, however, and rounded out his trophy collection from important ocean races by winning the 2007 Marblehead to Halifax Race overall. Burt was member of the Boston Club, Louisiana Club and Stratford Club, along with several carnival organizations. He was a member of Southern Yacht Club, Pass Christian Yacht Club, Camden (Maine) Yacht Club, New York Yacht Club, South Carolina Yacht Club and the Storm Trysail Club. He supported Tulane University and helped to establish the Gail Keenan Art Center in Long Beach, Mississippi. With a laugh, a smile, and a twinkle in his eye, Burt was beloved by multiple generations of family members, sailing friends and business associates. Known for his genuine interest in people from all walks of life, Burt will be missed by everyone who was fortunate to have been touched by his sense of humor, generosity and commitment to lifelong friendships. Internment at Metairie Cemetery followed by a celebration of Burt's life will be held in New Orleans on Tuesday, May 18th. In lieu of flowers, Burt's family suggests making a charitable contribution to your local charter school or community sailing organization.
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