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When offered the Vaccine, will you take it?


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1 hour ago, TheDragon said:

So everyone like me should find a cabin in the woods and somehow survive for a year or two without contact with others? Good luck selling that approach. I do anticipate seeing my nineties, if not 95 like my parents who were a little less indulgent than me. But I've had high blood pressure since I was 30 and in superb physical shape, and despite less than perfect health I'd wager I can out kitesurf you and Kate anytime you like.

I doubt it as I spend quite a bit of my spare time teaching young sailors to sail dinghies and skiffs.  I teach by example.  I don't have much time for self indulgent kite surfing.

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The private sector has embarked on a major campaign to reassure the public that they will not release a vaccine until they are confident it is safe and effective. We can expect a joint statement from

Polio would still be running wild if people behaved like that in the 50s. The government didn’t force the vaccine and doesn’t today, but nearly all kids get it. We haven’t had polio in this country si

Had my first one on Saturday 

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54 minutes ago, dorydude said:

why don't you think you should have to look after yourself?

I have a nephew who is in his early 30s - has a wife two kids a mortgage and was in his second year running his own restaurant.

Due to the lock downs he is now financially destroyed and he is suffering severe mental health issues.

Covid posed no risk to him or his family, and if the low risk under 65 demographic had not been locked down he would still be in business .

Dorydude as I said in an earlier post types like TheDragon are by their own admission retired and well off.  They can be self indulgent as evident by TheDragon's description of his health issues.  Of course there is no relationship between his high blood pressure and his being overweight.  The odds of him catching Covid-19 is low.  The odds of him dying from Covid-19 is low.  Just as it is for your nephew.

The difference is your nephew can't afford the self indulgence, the selfishness and force everyone else to lockdown to save themselves.  They are don't care about him and his family but kid themselves that they are saving your nephew and family from something that they are not at great risk from.

Only the likes of TheDragon can afford those luxuries.  

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Play spot the;

- play the man when cornered,

- unbridled hypocrisy,

- ignorance to the elevated numbers and demography of those who catch and spread it having regard to their financial capacity and movement.

- the mortality age grouping is treated as socially irrelevant,

- ignore the impact of Long Covid even in the young and healthy,

- ignore the smartest health professionals on planet earth,

- wail against Govt suppression mistakes, but ignore the sucessful suppression and economic examples ......

.....and that is just in the west....the third or developing world doesn't exist in their world. 

KoolAid drinking dangerous zealots.

1 hour ago, dorydude said:

I have a nephew who is in his early 30s - has a wife two kids a mortgage and was in his second year running his own restaurant.

Due to the lock downs he is now financially destroyed and he is suffering severe mental health issues.

Covid posed no risk to him or his family, and if the low risk under 65 demographic had not been locked down he would still be in business .

 

45 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Dorydude as I said in an earlier post types like TheDragon are by their own admission retired and well off.  They can be self indulgent as evident by TheDragon's description of his health issues.  Of course there is no relationship between his high blood pressure and his being overweight.  The odds of him catching Covid-19 is low.  The odds of him dying from Covid-19 is low.  Just as it is for your nephew.

The difference is your nephew can't afford the self indulgence, the selfishness and force everyone else to lockdown to save themselves.  They are don't care about him and his family but kid themselves that they are saving your nephew and family from something that they are not at great risk from.

Only the likes of TheDragon can afford those luxuries.  

 

20 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

He enjoys BOTH the protective blanket of virus suppression of <0.05% mortality, suppression that he doesn't support, PLUS (in his own words this time last year), ISN'T financially impacted by the economic impact of that virus suppression, in fact benefits I recall.

IMG_20200412_202231.jpg

 

IMG_20210318_195902.jpg.6272a4ce88f154c60e1a881ade1e258a.jpg

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25 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Play spot the;

- play the man when cornered,

- unbridled hypocrisy,

- ignorance to the elevated numbers and demography of those who catch and spread it having regard to their financial capacity and movement.

- the mortality age grouping is treated as socially irrelevant,

- ignore the impact of Long Covid even in the young and healthy,

- ignore the smartest health professionals on planet earth,

- wail against Govt suppression mistakes, but ignore the sucessful suppression and economic examples ......

.....and that is just in the west....the third or developing world doesn't exist in their world. 

KoolAid drinking dangerous zealots.

 

 

IMG_20210318_195902.jpg.6272a4ce88f154c60e1a881ade1e258a.jpg

Yep, it's called a "Casedemic". The reality is that the majority of deaths are coming from the last 3 or 4 groups. Young people catch the virus and their immune systems kill it 

You know this . Everyone knows this.

Covid almost exclusively kills the old and weak . We've known this almost from the start. Locking down all of society was a huge overreaction 

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10 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Typical Jacko manipulation of statistics.  Where is your favourite graphs of excess mortality by age group?

Sweden:

image.png.89e64fb7d10947802581111123ea7db2.png

 

39 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

- the mortality age grouping is treated as socially irrelevant,

- ignore the impact of Long Covid even in the young and healthy,

 

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10 minutes ago, dorydude said:

Yep, it's called a "Casedemic". The reality is that the majority of deaths are coming from the last 3 or 4 groups. Young people catch the virus and their immune systems kill it 

You know this . Everyone knows this.

Covid almost exclusively kills the old and weak . We've known this almost from the start. Locking down all of society was a huge overreaction 

 

40 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

- ignorance to the elevated numbers and demography of those who catch and spread it having regard to their financial capacity and movement.

- the mortality age grouping is treated as socially irrelevant,

- ignore the impact of Long Covid even in the young and healthy,

 

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35 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

- the mortality age grouping is treated as socially irrelevant,

No more or less irrelevant than you ignoring the severe impacts on other groups at low risk from Covid.  

You pull the hypocrisy card yet the whole motivation for your "Aussie have blown it again" thread is getting a family member to Australia.  Self-interest at its best. 

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1 minute ago, Kate short for Bob said:

No more or less irrelevant than you ignoring the severe impacts on other groups at low risk from Covid.  

 

41 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

- ignore the impact of Long Covid even in the young and healthy,

- wail against Govt suppression mistakes, but ignore the sucessful suppression and economic examples ....

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

You pull the hypocrisy card...

 

44 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:
21 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

He enjoys BOTH the protective blanket of virus suppression of <0.05% mortality, suppression that he doesn't support, PLUS (in his own words this time last year), ISN'T financially impacted by the economic impact of that virus suppression, in fact benefits I recall.

IMG_20200412_202231.jpg

 

 

9 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

You pull the hypocrisy card yet the whole motivation for your "Aussie have blown it again" thread is getting a family member to Australia.  Self-interest at its best. 

Have no such 'stranded' family member, friend or even associate - ALL your invention. You have been told that multiple times.

48 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

- play the man when cornered,

 

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54 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

No more or less irrelevant

More relevant is you still haven't produced a reply, attempting to unsuccessfully also cover off on these remaining two.

- ignore the smartest health professionals on planet earth,

.....and that is just in the west....the third or developing world doesn't exist in their world.

 

1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Play spot the;

- play the man when cornered,

- unbridled hypocrisy,

- ignorance to the elevated numbers and demography of those who catch and spread it having regard to their financial capacity and movement.

- the mortality age grouping is treated as socially irrelevant,

- ignore the impact of Long Covid even in the young and healthy,

- ignore the smartest health professionals on planet earth,

- wail against Govt suppression mistakes, but ignore the sucessful suppression and economic examples ......

.....and that is just in the west....the third or developing world doesn't exist in their world. 

KoolAid drinking dangerous zealots.

 

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7 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

??? Some third party forces too much bad food down your throat?  You have no say in it?

It is not unproven Bullshit.  Vitamin D has been shown to have a key role in a healthy immune system.  Key research dates well over 50 years and recent research has only reinforced that initial research.  All prior to Covid-19.  I could list tens of thousands of research papers.

But here are a couple you might find interesting assuming of course that you have a reasonably open mind:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3738984/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3166406/

There is also lots of research on the link between diabetes, kidney malfunction and autoimmune disease and Vitamin D deficiency.  Note that Covid-19 in serious illness and death cases causes an abnormal immune response with links to metabolic disease.  Again Vitamin D deficiency is a common factor.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4781904/

 

 

This thread, in nearly every way, is a great example of Mt. Stupid.  You have a bunch of armchair quarterbacks quoting web links in an attempt to argue that what the medical community experts have been telling us is just all wrong.

They are basing their viewpoints on one of two things.  Their incorrectly-held belief that they can read some medical information and suddenly become better than the experts, or their inability to differentiate between an opposing viewpoint and the experts.

It's not a conspiracy.  It's not a scam.  The people who get paid to do this and have studied it all their lives almost universally agree.  The media has certainly had fun scaring people, but that does not invalidate the opinions of the experts, and neither does your ability to google some links.  Period.

https://medium.com/intelligence-challenged/why-your-opinion-isnt-as-valid-as-you-think-it-is-5c32f3fdcad9

The opposing viewpoint to the experts gets play time because the news media always wants to appear unbiased by presenting an opposing viewpoint.  That gives air time to a bunch of people who don't deserve it - racists, white supremacists, anti-vaxxers, climate change deniers, flat earthers, and others.  And it allows people with poor critical thinking skills to hear people well-versed in lying.  Or at least people well-versed in misinterpreting fact.  As a result we get people who spend their lives as librarians arguing against infection disease experts and believing that people should give their opinion some type of actual weight.

It's little different than people who religiously follow talking heads to make their political opinions.  Or people who religiously follow religion (since by definition if your religion is right, than the other religions must be largely wrong).

Fake news indeed.

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8 hours ago, dorydude said:

....

Life is and always has been a series of calculated risks-  be it crossing a road, or walking home drunk. 

It's your life you calculate the risks and decide whether you want to do it or not.

And it's OTHER peoples' lives when you impose risk on them, like driving drunk or ignoring a contagious diease with deadly or life-altering consequences

- DSK

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32 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:


 

Moderna at a big box clinic. 
 

pretty sleepy on day two and some arm pain. Otherwise unremarkable. 

Congrats, Clean. We had few side effects  from Pfizer--similar to yours-- but friends have had significant ones, even days later. On the plus side, they all seem transient.

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8 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I doubt it as I spend quite a bit of my spare time teaching young sailors to sail dinghies and skiffs.  I teach by example.  I don't have much time for self indulgent kite surfing.

tenor.gif

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6 minutes ago, rantro said:
8 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I doubt it as I spend quite a bit of my spare time teaching young sailors to sail dinghies and skiffs.  I teach by example.  I don't have much time for self indulgent kite surfing.

 

tenor.gif

 

Mikey first made this claim a couple of weeks ago, seems like with his dozens of top-level careers in science and nuclear engineering and aerospace and medicine, he would not have that much spare time.

Plus the only boat I can recall him discussing in detail was a folding dinghy that does not have a sail

- DSK

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7 hours ago, dorydude said:

Yep, it's called a "Casedemic". The reality is that the majority of deaths are coming from the last 3 or 4 groups. Young people catch the virus and their immune systems kill it 

You know this . Everyone knows this.

Covid almost exclusively kills the old and weak . We've known this almost from the start. Locking down all of society was a huge overreaction 

This is why Mommy doesn't let you play with matches

You not only don't know what's dangerous, like a screaming toddler you are determined to stomp in puddles and play with dangerous things, just to prove what a big boy you are

- DSK

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1 hour ago, Grrr... said:

.....You have a bunch of armchair quarterbacks quoting web links in an attempt to argue that what the medical community experts have been telling us is just all wrong.

They are basing their viewpoints on one of two things.  Their incorrectly-held belief that they can read some medical information and suddenly become better than the experts, or their inability to differentiate between an opposing viewpoint and the experts.....

They simply don't have a moral compass...

.....and if they do, its fucked like this one.

MoralCompass-1.gif

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1 hour ago, accnick said:

Congrats, Clean. We had few side effects  from Pfizer--similar to yours-- but friends have had significant ones, even days later. On the plus side, they all seem transient.

Last one in my family to get it. I actually waited until I was eligible!

the level of rich white privilege in the vaccine roll out is unreal. And for some reason all the Jews seem to get the Moderna...

Wouldn’t it be cool if Gates nanobots were real and all the Jews now had superpowers?

on second thought....Stephen Miller and Jared kushner  

 

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3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:


 

Moderna at a big box clinic. 
 

pretty sleepy on day two and some arm pain. Otherwise unremarkable. 

If day 0 was the day I got the first dose of Moderna, day 1 was fine (besides a bit of arm pain), but days 2 and 3 felt like I was concussed.  "Mentally slow" would be the best way to describe it - like I'd go to hang up my jacket in the closet and walk to the bathroom (as if I was hanging up a towel).

Second does is next week.

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Countering the slight fog I have at the moment with quad espresso and a quarter of an adderall. And a 3-4 hour meeting for a cannabis company coming up in 20.  Fml. 

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

Mikey first made this claim a couple of weeks ago, seems like with his dozens of top-level careers in science and nuclear engineering and aerospace and medicine, he would not have that much spare time.

Plus the only boat I can recall him discussing in detail was a folding dinghy that does not have a sail

- DSK

No, He cruised extensively with weedo I think he bought him the parm remember...  Or was he just on the dock waving??  No No No, he was assisting when it was on the hard??  no ahhhh, he took care of sonya when she abandoned the drift??  Isn't he the kids Godparent or something??  Shit I can't remember.  

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4 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:


 

Moderna at a big box clinic. 
 

pretty sleepy on day two and some arm pain. Otherwise unremarkable. 

Just got on the roles in Co for week of the 5th.  1,030 mi and approx 2 weeks away from the light at the end of the tunnel and from salvation from this nightmare...  LOL  Go The Biden!!!!!  

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37 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Countering the slight fog I have at the moment with quad espresso and a quarter of an adderall. And a 3-4 hour meeting for a cannabis company coming up in 20.  Fml. 

So a completely normal day?

I get my first Moderna shot tomorrow morning at the local hospital. Slight fog, tired, sore muscles, and stumbling around is a normal day for me.

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11 hours ago, dorydude said:

Yep, it's called a "Casedemic". The reality is that the majority of deaths are coming from the last 3 or 4 groups. Young people catch the virus and their immune systems kill it 

You know this . Everyone knows this.

Covid almost exclusively kills the old and weak . We've known this almost from the start. Locking down all of society was a huge overreaction 

"Almost" exclusively.  Last time I checked, young people hate the idea of premature death as much as older people.  Adolescent males, on the other hand, like cheating death, so there's that.

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3 hours ago, El Borracho said:

So a completely normal day?

I get my first Moderna shot tomorrow morning at the local hospital. Slight fog, tired, sore muscles, and stumbling around is a normal day for me.

Get your thyroid (TSH) checked if you haven't already.  I feel a lot better now that I am on thyroxine.  Same symptoms as you prior.

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4 hours ago, Rain Man said:

"Almost" exclusively.  Last time I checked, young people hate the idea of premature death as much as older people.  Adolescent males, on the other hand, like cheating death, so there's that.

The seasonal flu kills young people every year and always has.

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15 hours ago, dorydude said:

Yep, it's called a "Casedemic". The reality is that the majority of deaths are coming from the last 3 or 4 groups. Young people catch the virus and their immune systems kill it 

You know this . Everyone knows this.

Covid almost exclusively kills the old and weak . We've known this almost from the start. Locking down all of society was a huge overreaction 

That you think any part of the USA experienced a "locking down" is laughable. Highway checkponts between towns? Testing and physically forced quarantine? Neighbohood patrols and reporting of illegal activities. During this pandemic I have lived in both the Philippines and USA. Days confined to a hotel room after arrival - food left by the door and an alarm in the hallway - no maid service. Roadblocks and police issued passes for movement between towns or neighborhoods. Face masks plus face shields. Mandatory swab testing. Strict market days and hours to prevent crowds. Face mask and covering required everywhere beyond my front gate. Actually enforced by police. The people grumped and griped for sure. Some suffered. However they overwhelming complied without any of the incessant whinging of American's. Simply asked to wear a mask for a few minutes while shopping anytime they pleased causes endless caterwauling and insurrection. It paid off with low COVID stats.

You were unable to get a legal massage or haircut for a few weeks?

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20 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

??? Some third party forces too much bad food down your throat?  You have no say in it?

 

 

 

With all due respect - I love that phrase - it seems many do not know the difference of speaking about Social Sciences and Biology and Evolution as opposed to the degree of Free Will or Discipline a person in X situation might have (debatable, but Neuroscience - so far - suggests Free Will does not exist).

Yes, I would posit that when you go to the Ball Park as a child or adult there are not vast amounts of healthy food options staring at you in the face. I would even propose - and this is really far out - that the Food Companies and Lobbyists and Industry spend 10's of Billions of dollars for a reason. Imagine that! 

Your claim is like the suggestion "Well, you claim you can't take a private jet so you can bring your dog in comfort and not worry about COVID..." - same answer. By and large we are programmed/forced into both a lifestyle and diet that has been dictated by economics, class, power, energy and other factors. To be the "exception" (in the private jet or eating perfectly since you come out of the womb" would be the exception to the rule.

Of course much more than "after leaving the womb" is involved since we don't have much choice as to both the nutrition and genetics injected into us before that time.

So, the answer is simply that if the USA was not a "make money from death and suffering" type of society, we could do better and move quicker toward a healthier society. However, many people FIGHT for the rights of some to weigh 450 lbs even tho we all pay the price. 

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5 minutes ago, craigiri said:

With all due respect - I love that phrase - it seems many do not know the difference of speaking about Social Sciences and Biology and Evolution as opposed to the degree of Free Will or Discipline a person in X situation might have (debatable, but Neuroscience - so far - suggests Free Will does not exist).

 

Can you explain that paragraph a bit more?

 

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3 hours ago, dorydude said:

The seasonal flu kills young people every year and always has.

Yes, one bad year in MA we had 3 people under 15 succumb. Imagine! Even those were "flu like". 

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6 minutes ago, craigiri said:

However, many people FIGHT for the rights of some to weigh 450 lbs even tho we all pay the price. 

Maybe they should fight for the rights of those that die of starvation.  An anecdote.  I remember my first year at University and studying Biochemistry.  I failed Chemistry at school.  When I got to Uni Chemistry was split into Biochemistry and Organic Chemistry.  I excelled in the former but still struggled with the latter even though they were very similar.

Why did I suddenly click with regard to Biochemistry?  For the simple reason that the Professor related the concepts to real life examples that I could understand.  For example - "there are 450 different alcohols in your average Rum.  If you consume one bottle of Rum you convert that alcohol in glycogen and if you don't use it you make fat!"  Excuse me if I have that slightly wrong but it was a few decades ago.

He then said to get rid of that fat you need to consume x amount of energy which equates to so many minutes on a rowing machine.  He gave an example of a 450lb person and how much energy they would need to expend to get rid of the stored energy (fat) they had in their body.  

Why should society look after those that choose to be unhealthy?

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13 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Can you explain that paragraph a bit more?

 

There are a number of great interviews with the top neuroscientists that study this stuff. Free Will is an illusion. If asked for a figure, most of them will give 95% or more....can't help ourselves. Most of our decision making comes from places we have no control over - it would be like willing yourself not to ever toilet or even breathe.

There are a number of ways they test for this. Some might sound strange, but all together they still add up. Examples- and summary of one of the top guys.

Some of it involves using brain scans while providing input. 

One low-tech study used pictures of Women and showed them to 100's of guys and asked them to be rated on how attractive they were. Most all the women were attractive, but there was a slight difference in some of them. That crowd was ovulating. Guess what? The men found the ovulating women more attractive! I'm not sure if they wired up those guys or just used the selection.

So there is a "signal" that none of the men had the free will to ignore. 

" the intentions to take voluntary actions are strongly influenced by events occurring after the execution of the action"

There is a lot of studies you can look up. It's an interesting topic.

One of the top neuroscientists says, in the future, we will not have Courts of Law that attempt to apply equal justice. Rather, we will have an almost perfect measurement of the brain and add that into the mix - not "John did this", but rather "this brain" did that.

We can surely see this already in society - that trauma and many other things play into why people do things we consider "bad". Often these trauma are not the fault - at all - of the person taking the actions

Anyway, maybe a subject for another thread?

*did the Boulder Shooter do what he did because of trauma from the family back in Syria (and the endless wars in Iraq that bleed over)? Was that reinforced by Trump era ultra-racism and hate mongering? I'm not asking the question for now because we obviously are immature as a society...but someday they might ask this. Or, better yet, avoid it. 

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4 minutes ago, craigiri said:

There are a number of great interviews with the top neuroscientists that study this stuff. Free Will is an illusion. If asked for a figure, most of them will give 95% or more....can't help ourselves. Most of our decision making comes from places we have no control over - it would be like willing yourself not to ever toilet or even breathe.

There are a number of ways they test for this. Some might sound strange, but all together they still add up. Examples- and summary of one of the top guys.

Some of it involves using brain scans while providing input. 

One low-tech study used pictures of Women and showed them to 100's of guys and asked them to be rated on how attractive they were. Most all the women were attractive, but there was a slight difference in some of them. That crowd was ovulating. Guess what? The men found the ovulating women more attractive! I'm not sure if they wired up those guys or just used the selection.

So there is a "signal" that none of the men had the free will to ignore. 

" the intentions to take voluntary actions are strongly influenced by events occurring after the execution of the action"

There is a lot of studies you can look up. It's an interesting topic.

One of the top neuroscientists says, in the future, we will not have Courts of Law that attempt to apply equal justice. Rather, we will have an almost perfect measurement of the brain and add that into the mix - not "John did this", but rather "this brain" did that.

We can surely see this already in society - that trauma and many other things play into why people do things we consider "bad". Often these trauma are not the fault - at all - of the person taking the actions

Anyway, maybe a subject for another thread?

*did the Boulder Shooter do what he did because of trauma from the family back in Syria (and the endless wars in Iraq that bleed over)? Was that reinforced by Trump era ultra-racism and hate mongering? I'm not asking the question for now because we obviously are immature as a society...but someday they might ask this. Or, better yet, avoid it. 

That's all fascinating.  But at the end of the day should society try and protect everyone?  Take it to its extreme - "all good you can eat all the bad food you want and drink all the alcohol you want because society will look after you as you are one of us.  It's not your fault because your free will has been subjugated to the power of corporate advertising." 

 

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6 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

 

Why did I suddenly click with regard to Biochemistry?  For the simple reason that the Professor related the concepts to real life examples that I could understand.  For example - "there are 450 different alcohols in your average Rum.  If you consume one bottle of Rum you convert that alcohol in glycogen and if you don't use it you make fat!"  Excuse me if I have that slightly wrong but it was a few decades ago.

 

One day I read how far a chocolate bar would take me - up steps. Truly amazing. It didn't make me hate on fat people, but rather gave me an appreciation for how efficient this machine is. Amazing!

Listen, we are obviously in a new world - it's only existed for a short time - where we live longer and the Ammonia process and other discoveries have resulted in a vast excess of calories - while, at the same time, mechanization have reduced our need for consuming calories. 

I tend to hold a more futuristic view - as opposed to individual. This is a problem that will be solved by a combination of things. 

I'm sure you have read about concentration camp survivors (military and non-military) who almost killed themselves by eating too much when they got out! In a sense, what we are seeing is a stretched out version of that - and we have to fix society just like we had to moderate the diets of those survivors until their systems caught up. There is already a general tendency toward healthy food starting.

But it remains true that many forces - advertising, marketing, lobbying are being allowed to fatten up those masses - and we have to pay. Capitalism, in a sense, allows for the offloading of costs to others...it's "good business" to take the profits now and leave society to clean up the mess. 

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1 minute ago, Kate short for Bob said:

That's all fascinating.  But at the end of the day should society try and protect everyone?  Take it to its extreme - "all good you can eat all the bad food you want and drink all the alcohol you want because society will look after you as you are one of us.  It's not your fault because your free will has been subjugated to the power of corporate advertising." 

 

In general, if people (leaders, wealthier, etc.) accepted economics they WOULD help everyone because it's much less costly AND it creates more general welfare and happiness.

It's like the ignorance of the US Health Care system - even if we were all healthier our costs would be at least double what they should be. People rally against universal coverage - as if paying MORE for lack of such...or getting worse results, is a good outcome.

So that is the answer. It generally costs less to do it right. Therefore the answer is yes, we should take care of everyone.

That brings us back to the "life" crowd and the people who truly believe that it is the choice of a family to have as many children as they want - some kind of God Given Right. This is not more the case than my right to do my business on the sidewalk. Both might have been fine in the old days but when others have to deal with the result, the calculations change. Economics fixes that also...to an extent. 

We'll never touch these problems as long as Fundie Religion is in power. I mean - it's a heck of a long way from Gold Tablets being found by a Con Man in a cornfield in NY (that only he saw) to the type of leadership and common sense I am pushing for. 

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7 minutes ago, craigiri said:

I'm sure you have read about concentration camp survivors (military and non-military) who almost killed themselves by eating too much when they got out! In a sense, what we are seeing is a stretched out version of that - and we have to fix society just like we had to moderate the diets of those survivors until their systems caught up. There is already a general tendency toward healthy food starting.

But it remains true that many forces - advertising, marketing, lobbying are being allowed to fatten up those masses - and we have to pay. Capitalism, in a sense, allows for the offloading of costs to others...it's "good business" to take the profits now and leave society to clean up the mess. 

I've been through lean times recently.  What surprised me was how much less I could live on and actually feel better.

But then I'm a feast and famine person which is probably deeply ingrained into the human genome.

 

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9 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I've been through lean times recently.  What surprised me was how much less I could live on and actually feel better.

But then I'm a feast and famine person which is probably deeply ingrained into the human genome.

 

That falls under "programming" which is a great solution for many of our problems. My life was formed at 8 years old when my parents sent me to a primitive Quaker camp. I then spent 3 years of my adulthood in the woods living on a dollar per day per person (1975). If you've been tight then you can probably imagine the level we lived at. That's about $5 a day per person today. 

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7 hours ago, dorydude said:
12 hours ago, Rain Man said:

"Almost" exclusively.  Last time I checked, young people hate the idea of premature death as much as older people.  Adolescent males, on the other hand, like cheating death, so there's that.

The seasonal flu kills young people every year and always has.

"The seasonal flu kills young people every year and always has".

 

images - 2021-03-25T141017.147.jpeg

 

irv12627-fig-0002-m.png

 

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6 hours ago, dorydude said:

 

Just listen to this doctor's testimony in the Texas legislature on TREATMENT of Covid-19:

https://youtu.be/QAHi3lX3oGM

 

Just one quote: "COVID - 19 has always been a treatable sickness"

 

 

 

The doc's point is that we might have been able to avoid some of the hospitalizations and fatalities with intervention prior to the disease becoming severe.   I guess your point in posting this is that the health care system is reactive rather than proactive when it comes to treatment.  This is a valid criticism of almost every health care system.

I think the point the doctor misses is that the world's health care systems aren't set up to handle preventative treatment of covid cases on a large scale.  He talks about some of the therapies available - many of these are expensive, and there is a large portion of the world population without health insurance.  So, if his point is that something could have been done to prevent all the death that has happened, he is right, but his solution isn't practical.  

Perhaps it might have worked in countries like Canada with single-payer universal health care.  

There are other things that could have been done too, like strict lockdowns.   Those may also not have been practical in many places.

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5 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Do a tally up of all the money spent on testing non symptomatic people.  Then re-evaluate "expensive"!

Mikey still on the COVID denial bandwagon?

His family must be hungry.  If he post just a few more he will be able to afford to give his wife her false teeth back so she can eat again.

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6 hours ago, rantro said:

Mikey still on the COVID denial bandwagon?

His family must be hungry.  If he post just a few more he will be able to afford to give his wife her false teeth back so she can eat again.

No wifie...  He is going through the big D...

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Got my 1st Moderna shot last night. Have been on the call up list.  Shot did not hurt. ran a small temp for a bit. slight headache. slightly achy. Feeling better by the hour.  It looks up for summer travel and renewed socialization.

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WARNING DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU ARE PRONE TO PISSING YOUR PANTS

 

 

So the Republicans are responsible for the weather?  

 

 

Maybe Texas was motivated by the 2003 North East blackout affecting 35-40 million people.

 

 

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

 

 

No my post was stating facts. 

How is it a deflection?

 

 

Do you ever allow facts to get in the way?

Can't fix stupid, can't stop it from posting.

 

 

It is Mikey the Unaposter, Expert On Everything (especially trailer-park science)

 

 

Bye bye, Mikey.

 

 

YOU apologists overlook that Texas has had the lowest power charges. 

 

 

Dear Shit Fur Brains, recently revealed Texas has paid $28 billion more since deregulation.

 

 

More than what?

 

 

Um how did that help in 2003?

 

 

That's Mikey all right... superb math skills

 

 

Texas has had higher average rates than 3 of 4 of it's neighbors and isn't that far from the national average.

 

 

So it is better than 25 States at least?

 

 

No, it's the worst. 

 

 

What does it prove?  I'd be really interested to see your cogent analysis.

 

 

Are you suggesting all the residents of the urban areas in TX and FL went camping on the prairie or the everglades?

 

 

So where is the new Ignore button??

 

 

Overall your points are a nonsense and not supported by the actual data nor many studies that have been done. 

 

 

A certain Imperial College model immediately comes to mind when forecasting deaths. 

 

 

Can you please cite that "certain Imperial College model" 

 

 

For hospitalisations/deaths 21-28 days  So your "surge" should be well and truly visible.  It isn't.   

 

 

Daily cases are where they were early Sept - over 3k per day,

I live in Texas..

 

 

So vaccinations are not having an effect yet nor is the continued wearing of masks?

 

 

What counties?  What rate of "increase"?  Wouldn't be imported cases from Mexico would they?

 

 

Since the positivity rate of immigrants coming across the Mexican border is lower than the positivity rate for the general Texas population....

NO

 

 

What Texas counties are increasing and at what rate?

 

 

Backup old boy you missed answering this post.

 

 

What counties Jacko?  Can we see your detailed analysis. 

 

 

What on earth are you smoking, Kate? Screen Shot 2021-03-23 at 9.16.10 PM.png

 

 

I haven't mentioned the word "counties".

 

 

That wasn't a diversion Jacko.  Classic troll behaviour. 

 

 

That's for bacterial reasons more than viral. 

 

 

An infected person does not exhale free-floating virus.

Fairly basic science BTW

 

 

Now you are getting into a different topic - viral load and the size of exhaled aerosols.    Basic physics.

 

 

Umm, no

It's the exact same thing.

 

 

Steamer the evidence based research shows it didn't make a difference. 

 

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J&J shot done and did.  No real side effects except for the desire to download a new Windows operating system and I'm pretty sure the microchip that was implanted gives out an AIS signal...so I have that going for me...which is nice

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49 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

WARNING DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU ARE PRONE TO PISSING YOUR PANTS

 

 

So the Republicans are responsible for the weather?  

 

 

Maybe Texas was motivated by the 2003 North East blackout affecting 35-40 million people.

 

 

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

 

 

No my post was stating facts. 

How is it a deflection?

 

 

Do you ever allow facts to get in the way?

Can't fix stupid, can't stop it from posting.

 

 

It is Mikey the Unaposter, Expert On Everything (especially trailer-park science)

 

 

Bye bye, Mikey.

 

 

YOU apologists overlook that Texas has had the lowest power charges. 

 

 

Dear Shit Fur Brains, recently revealed Texas has paid $28 billion more since deregulation.

 

 

More than what?

 

 

Um how did that help in 2003?

 

 

That's Mikey all right... superb math skills

 

 

Texas has had higher average rates than 3 of 4 of it's neighbors and isn't that far from the national average.

 

 

So it is better than 25 States at least?

 

 

No, it's the worst. 

 

 

What does it prove?  I'd be really interested to see your cogent analysis.

 

 

Are you suggesting all the residents of the urban areas in TX and FL went camping on the prairie or the everglades?

 

 

So where is the new Ignore button??

 

 

Overall your points are a nonsense and not supported by the actual data nor many studies that have been done. 

 

 

A certain Imperial College model immediately comes to mind when forecasting deaths. 

 

 

Can you please cite that "certain Imperial College model" 

 

 

For hospitalisations/deaths 21-28 days  So your "surge" should be well and truly visible.  It isn't.   

 

 

Daily cases are where they were early Sept - over 3k per day,

I live in Texas..

 

 

So vaccinations are not having an effect yet nor is the continued wearing of masks?

 

 

What counties?  What rate of "increase"?  Wouldn't be imported cases from Mexico would they?

 

 

Since the positivity rate of immigrants coming across the Mexican border is lower than the positivity rate for the general Texas population....

NO

 

 

What Texas counties are increasing and at what rate?

 

 

Backup old boy you missed answering this post.

 

 

What counties Jacko?  Can we see your detailed analysis. 

 

 

What on earth are you smoking, Kate? Screen Shot 2021-03-23 at 9.16.10 PM.png

 

 

I haven't mentioned the word "counties".

 

 

That wasn't a diversion Jacko.  Classic troll behaviour. 

 

 

That's for bacterial reasons more than viral. 

 

 

An infected person does not exhale free-floating virus.

Fairly basic science BTW

 

 

Now you are getting into a different topic - viral load and the size of exhaled aerosols.    Basic physics.

 

 

Umm, no

It's the exact same thing.

 

 

Steamer the evidence based research shows it didn't make a difference. 

 

Geez Jacko that kept you busy for an hour or so!  Although it wouldn't surprise me if you collect posts for your cut and past database.  Yes I am pissing my pants laughing at the extremes you go to to make not one iota of a difference!

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Day 3 after Moderna #1

 

arm pain 90% gone

all other effects gone. 

second round on my birthday

I was told by the pharmacist who gave me the Moderna shot that the second one is the doozy. She said she was knocked out for a full day with full flu symptoms with the second after mild first shot and could not get out of bed. Hydration and tylenol helped she said. 

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On 3/24/2021 at 10:27 PM, dorydude said:

 

Just listen to this doctor's testimony in the Texas legislature on TREATMENT of Covid-19:

https://youtu.be/QAHi3lX3oGM

 

Just one quote: "COVID - 19 has always been a treatable sickness"

 

 

 

Everything is treatable except death,

Whether you survive after treatment or survive in a good condition after treatment, is entirely another matter..

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Welcome to the vaccinated, Clean. Yes, second shot is worse as most everyone attests. Mine knocked me out for one day, my wife for two, my daughter just went rock climbing! Now we are happily socializing and planning summer travel. Life is good. I even managed to lose a few pounds as my shoulder surgery recovery progresses and I'm able to be more active. Might even be able to gently kitesurf at Cape Hatteras by the end of next month. Can't wait to get back to my boat in Panama. Dreaming of kitesurfing in Cape Town in December. Sorry that Kate thinks that's indulgent, but I worked hard for 40+ years post BSc, I'm happy to be a self-indulgent retiree.

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19 hours ago, The Q said:

Everything is treatable except death,

Whether you survive after treatment or survive in a good condition after treatment, is entirely another matter..

Oh, they can treat death, too.

They just can't cure it

- DSK

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My wife and I got our 2nd shots (Pfizer) yesterday.  Hospital was a model of efficiency.  In and out in 25 minutes.

I'm having fewer reactions to the 2nd one than the first. First shot my arm was a bit tender for a couple of days.  If it weren’t for the bandaid on my arm I’d be hard pressed to know where I got the shot.

My wife says her her does hurt and she woke up in the middle of the night feeling a bit achy.

No other reactions/symptoms to report at this time.

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8 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

My wife and I got our 2nd shots (Pfizer) yesterday.  Hospital was a model of efficiency.  In and out in 25 minutes.

I'm having fewer reactions to the 2nd one than the first. First shot my arm was a bit tender for a couple of days.  If it weren’t for the bandaid on my arm I’d be hard pressed to know where I got the shot.

My wife says her her does hurt and she woke up in the middle of the night feeling a bit achy.

No other reactions/symptoms to report at this time.

My wife and I also got  our second (Pfizer) shoot yesterday.   I slept about 10 hours and woke up feeling like a had a few YC Dark and Stormies (we didnt drink last night), she woke up 3 times during the night and had a low grade fever.  We are both feeling better this morning with coffee.  From what we have heard from other friends everything clears about in about 24 hours.   

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My wife and I got our first shot of Pfizer five days ago. Only was a bit tender at the injection zone the next day. Not even a bandaid.

Did not feel the nanobots. Oh wait, they just received a major update, I have to reboot...

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These GAVI financed gene-therapies currently being pimped?

No.. though maybe in 2023 when the final completed trial data is in for some of these novel new products.

Meanwhile here is todays read from that well-known conspiracy theorist journal the UKs BMJ.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425

Science is being suppressed for political and financial gain. Covid-19 has unleashed state corruption on a grand scale, and it is harmful to public health.1 Politicians and industry are responsible for this opportunistic embezzlement. So too are scientists and health experts. The pandemic has revealed how the medical-political complex can be manipulated in an emergency—a time when it is even more important to safeguard science.

 

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For those, like my family, receiving one of the two mRNA vaccines, I recommend this article in the New York Times by the excellent science journalist Gina Kolata. It is about a scientist who persisted early on trying to use mRNA to generate novel proteins in animal cells, the basis for these vaccines. There were numerous other advances required for the success of the Moderna and BioNTech vaccines, like the modified sequence of the spike protein itself (changing a few amino acids to proline to stabilize its structure), and the lipid droplets that the mRNA is enclosed in to facilitate introduction of the mRNA into cells, but the fundamental work on getting the mRNA to work and avoid stimulating an immune response against the mRNA itself was critical.

There is an interesting science social angle to it too, she struggled to obtain a permanent position, moving from one grant-supported position to another, dependent on the patronage of more senior scientists. I was lucky to get straight through the standard career progression of BSc, PhD, postdoc, assistant, associate, and full professor (now emeritus), but I have watched some colleagues struggle like this woman did.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/health/coronavirus-mrna-kariko.html

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You'd appear more credible if you stopped quoting the NYT.

That place jumped the shark 4 years ago, and it's not the same.  
'The netflix of journalism' as people refer to it as.

We give you the content you want, and lots of it.

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On 4/10/2021 at 4:44 AM, BlatantEcho said:

You'd appear more credible if you stopped quoting the NYT.

That place jumped the shark 4 years ago, and it's not the same.  
'The netflix of journalism' as people refer to it as.

We give you the content you want, and lots of it.

Perhaps you could read the article and tell me what aspects of it are incorrect or inaccurate. 

I paid attention to this kind of research, especially the development of the lipid microdroplets used to deliver the vaccine, because 20 years ago I was involved in research to develop methods for genetic engineering of various organisms and we considered using that technology. I find nothing wrong with the article, perhaps you could educate me more.

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On 4/10/2021 at 5:44 AM, BlatantEcho said:

You'd appear more credible if you stopped quoting the NYT.

That place jumped the shark 4 years ago, and it's not the same.  
'The netflix of journalism' as people refer to it as.

We give you the content you want, and lots of it.

Generally RWNJ bullshitters hate the NY Times, because 1- they're told to and 2- it does not pander to what they want to hear and 3- it generally proves that what -they- prefer to hear/spout is bullshit.

On rare occasions, the Times publishes info that is wrong. They almost always print admission of error and corrections... and I have no proof it isn't ALWAYS but I am cynical enough to think that mistakes must slip past them. They're only human

They actually fire reporters who knowingly submit false info as NEWS.

Get back to us when -any- of your favorite "news" sources do any of that.

- DSK

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14 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Generally RWNJ bullshitters hate the NY Times, because 1- they're told to and 2- it does not pander to what they want to hear and 3- it generally proves that what -they- prefer to hear/spout is bullshit.

On rare occasions, the Times publishes info that is wrong. They almost always print admission of error and corrections... and I have no proof it isn't ALWAYS but I am cynical enough to think that mistakes must slip past them. They're only human

They actually fire reporters who knowingly submit false info as NEWS.

Get back to us when -any- of your favorite "news" sources do any of that.

- DSK

Lololol

What planet do you live on?

 

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4 hours ago, Keith said:

Can you explain why the data in this article doesn't match the latest data on the source website?  The article quotes sources from the Brazil ICU Project.

http://www.utisbrasileiras.com.br/en/covid-19/benchmarking-covid-19/

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A new study by Israeli researchers found that a South African variant of COVID may put people who have been vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine at higher risk of breakthrough infection compared to unvaccinated people.

The study also showed an increased incidence of the UK variant in those who received one dose of the Pfizer shot.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.06.21254882v1

Hmm...rushed vaccines....

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4 hours ago, dorydude said:

A new study by Israeli researchers found that a South African variant of COVID may put people who have been vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine at higher risk of breakthrough infection compared to unvaccinated people.

The study also showed an increased incidence of the UK variant in those who received one dose of the Pfizer shot.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.06.21254882v1

Hmm...rushed vaccines....

 

.

Yeah we should wait until even more variants come out

- DSK

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