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When offered the Vaccine, will you take it?


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13 hours ago, IStream said:

Update for @EYESAILOR from before this thread degenerated, with 131.2M vaccinated and eligibility open to all in my state, my wife and I just got our first jab with Pfizer. The 17yo gets his tomorrow.

Sounds like we had similar weekends. I got my first round of Pfizer on Saturday. I already had Covid, so wasn’t in any rush, but now that there’s plenty available, I didn’t see the point in waiting any longer. 

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The private sector has embarked on a major campaign to reassure the public that they will not release a vaccine until they are confident it is safe and effective. We can expect a joint statement from

Had my first one on Saturday 

While I appreciate some people’s reluctance to take the vax, I know that once vaccines are fully available, we will start treating it like any other communicable disease at my company. So far, we have

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3 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

Why is a 17 year old getting a vaccine?

What is the reasoning behind that?

 

Society would be infinitely better served sending god vaccines overseas to protect old people in other countries - actually at risk.

But a 17 year old??

 

What science is this following?

I'm guessing you think vaccinating men against a virus that causes cervical cancer is silly too?

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6 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

I'm guessing you think vaccinating men against a virus that causes cervical cancer is silly too?

The same virus causes penile cancer, throat and mouth cancer.  It isn't gender specific however many Government vaccination programmes have made it so.

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37 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

The same virus causes penile cancer, throat and mouth cancer.  It isn't gender specific however many Government vaccination programmes have made it so.

What's the death rate of penile cancer?

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22 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

What's the death rate of penile cancer?

Greater than cervical cancer.  But what is the point of your question?  Surely you are not suggesting that only half the transmission vectors should be vaccinated and that only the most vulnerable should be vaccinated?

Throat cancer of which HPV is a significant cause has half the survival rate of cervical cancer.

 

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4 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Greater than cervical cancer.  But what is the point of your question?  Surely you are not suggesting that only half the transmission vectors should be vaccinated and that only the most vulnerable should be vaccinated?

Throat cancer of which HPV is a significant cause has half the survival rate of cervical cancer.

 

Surely you're not arguing against that?

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5 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Surely you're not arguing against that?

No I'm not arguing against vaccinating pre-sexually active young people for protection from HPV.  It is a thoroughly tested vaccine that is safe.  I'm arguing that it shouldn't be limited to vaccinating just females as it is in some countries and states.

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2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

No I'm not arguing against vaccinating pre-sexually active young people for protection from HPV.  It is a thoroughly tested vaccine that is safe.  I'm arguing that it shouldn't be limited to vaccinating just females as it is in some countries and states.

Should grandparents be vaccinated for whooping cough?

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On 4/19/2021 at 6:40 AM, Steam Flyer said:

Umm, the science that 17 years olds catch and spread the virus?

Pretty difficult advanced stuff for you

- DSK


This is a level of stupid I haven't seen here before.  Interesting.

 

I am sorry I don't have a wittier response here.

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10 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Should grandparents be vaccinated for whooping cough?

What's your point?  The reality is because of Covid-19 millions of young children who are not vulnerable to Covid-19 are not being vaccinated for preventable and treatable fatal diseases.

How does that fact sit with the selfish and scared save me from covid-19 acolytes?

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42 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

What's your point?  The reality is because of Covid-19 millions of young children who are not vulnerable to Covid-19 are not being vaccinated for preventable and treatable fatal diseases.

How does that fact sit with the selfish and scared save me from covid-19 acolytes?

PSA:

Whataboutism.

Also: lacks evidence that young children are not vulnerable. At all.

You're welcome.

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1 minute ago, Matagi said:

Also: lacks evidence that young children are not vulnerable. At all.

There is considerable evidence that young children are not vulnerable to Covid-19 - certainly they are many many times less vulnerable to Covid-19 than influenza.  They are also predominantly asymptomatic and thus less infectious.  

Evidence based science has been posted many many times to support that.  Just look at the CDC figures.

As for the issues with other disease vaccination programs affecting young children more than any other segment of the population you only have to listen to what WHO has been publishing to confirm that.  Again information on that problem has been published frequently.

Where is the balanced approach to health management?

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9 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Debunked. 

Anyone can write into this database. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaers-deaths-idUSL1N2LV0NY

I think the point of the posting of the vax death graph is to point out that vaccinated people still die.  Some even die of Covid-19 under the classification rules.  Whether they die from being vaccinated is moot just as many Covid-19 deaths of people with multiple comorbidities.  Even I wouldn't post the vax death graph.

However you overlook the following graph.  I assume you are not debunking that one!

EzgnXAAXEAMaP62.thumb.jpg.ae8a875f68029ce3be7167f016f0bed5.jpg

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8 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

There is considerable evidence that young children are not vulnerable to Covid-19 - certainly they are many many times less vulnerable to Covid-19 than influenza.  They are also predominantly asymptomatic and thus less infectious.  

Evidence based science has been posted many many times to support that.  Just look at the CDC figures.

As for the issues with other disease vaccination programs affecting young children more than any other segment of the population you only have to listen to what WHO has been publishing to confirm that.  Again information on that problem has been published frequently.

Where is the balanced approach to health management?

I'm not talking to you, you don't need to reply to me.

All others: my intention was to point out a very common theme from the playbook of Miss Information here.

Say this:

'The reality is because of Covid-19 millions of young children who are not vulnerable to Covid-19'

And when your bluff is called, row back as quickly as you can.

Experienced opponents will throw in another non-substantiated claim on the way out of the door:

'certainly they are many many times less vulnerable to Covid-19 than influenza.'

And do not forget to verbally kill ANY other (other!!!) person that does not provide a source (only you be the judge of its credibility) or somehow makes the mistake to 'generalize' or apply common sense or (Hail Mary, full of Grace!) mainstream media. 

Remember: only you judge what is to be considered mainstream. It shall henceforth be measured in 'Nugents'. Shapiro: 10 Nugents. Fauci: 0 Nugents.

Always start your post with something like 'you really don't get it' or 'Are you a descendant of an ape?' (btw: scientific consensus is: yes, you are. But to some [winkwink] the jury is still out.

End your post with something like 

'Whether they die from being vaccinated is moot'

This aims to show how you are in control and only you steer the 'conversation' (note the handcrafted ' ').

This applies especially in emergency situations when you have to make amends or someone caught you or -worse- you got caught up in your own spiderweb: e.g., note the subconscious confession that is beautifully hidden in this 'Even I':

'Even I wouldn't post the vax death graph.

However you overlook [...]'

You get the gist, right?

Never forget that there is no reality beyond what you read and that all you have read is true. Because: why else would you read it? Duh!

Also always remember that there is no other purpose in your life (left. Because she left. Why? How could she? It was only once!) then to negate and belittle others in what is now a sub-forum to Sportboat Anarchy.

Well done, young Padawan. Tomorrow, maybe we learn about graphs, visualizations and how cutting them at the right corner makes you look more intelligent than you really are.

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3 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

What's your point?  The reality is because of Covid-19 millions of young children who are not vulnerable to Covid-19 are not being vaccinated for preventable and treatable fatal diseases.

How does that fact sit with the selfish and scared save me from covid-19 acolytes?

Where are these millions of young people?

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1 hour ago, Matagi said:

'The reality is because of Covid-19 millions of young children who are not vulnerable to Covid-19'

And when your bluff is called, row back as quickly as you can.

 

You have no comment on the data from ONS (Office of National Statistics, UK)?  Essentially the number of children between the age of 1 and 15 dying from Covid-19 (SARS-COV-2) is statistically close to zero!  At the other end of the scale 6 out of 100 people over the age of 90 died from Covid-19.  Yet the UK stopped the education, socialisation and care of children for over a year!  Do you have an opinion on that?  Or are you stuck in your "fight the mythical group of deniers at all costs" paradigm?

EzgnXAAXEAMaP62.thumb.jpg.ae8a875f68029ce3be7167f016f0bed5.jpg

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6 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Where are these millions of young people?

It is a global problem.  The UK, USA (some States have done better than others), Africa.  The first article below highlights the the huge gap in vaccination BEFORE Covid-19 which was made worse after Covid-19.  The hypocrisy is self evident.

Over 13 million children did not receive any vaccines at all even before COVID-19 disrupted global immunization – UNICEF

Mass measles immunization campaigns suspended in 25 largely high-burden countries due to pandemic

https://www.unicef.org/eap/press-releases/over-13-million-children-did-not-receive-any-vaccines-all-even-covid-19-disrupted

  • At least 80 million children under one at risk of diseases such as diphtheria, measles and polio as COVID-19 disrupts routine vaccination efforts, warn Gavi, WHO and UNICEF

COVID 19 is disrupting life-saving immunization services around the world, putting millions of children – in rich and poor countries alike – at risk of diseases like diphtheria, measles and polio. This stark warning comes from the World Health Organization, UNICEF and Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance ahead of the Global Vaccine Summit on 4 June, at which world leaders will come together to help maintain immunization programmes and mitigate the impact of the pandemic in lower-income countries.

According to data collected by the World Health Organization, UNICEF, Gavi and the Sabin Vaccine Institute, provision of routine immunization services is substantially hindered in at least 68 countries and is likely to affect approximately 80 million children under the age of 1 living in these countries.

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21 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

It is a global problem.  The UK, USA (some States have done better than others), Africa.  The first article below highlights the the huge gap in vaccination BEFORE Covid-19 which was made worse after Covid-19.  The hypocrisy is self evident.

Over 13 million children did not receive any vaccines at all even before COVID-19 disrupted global immunization – UNICEF

Mass measles immunization campaigns suspended in 25 largely high-burden countries due to pandemic

https://www.unicef.org/eap/press-releases/over-13-million-children-did-not-receive-any-vaccines-all-even-covid-19-disrupted

  • At least 80 million children under one at risk of diseases such as diphtheria, measles and polio as COVID-19 disrupts routine vaccination efforts, warn Gavi, WHO and UNICEF

COVID 19 is disrupting life-saving immunization services around the world, putting millions of children – in rich and poor countries alike – at risk of diseases like diphtheria, measles and polio. This stark warning comes from the World Health Organization, UNICEF and Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance ahead of the Global Vaccine Summit on 4 June, at which world leaders will come together to help maintain immunization programmes and mitigate the impact of the pandemic in lower-income countries.

According to data collected by the World Health Organization, UNICEF, Gavi and the Sabin Vaccine Institute, provision of routine immunization services is substantially hindered in at least 68 countries and is likely to affect approximately 80 million children under the age of 1 living in these countries.

So how many died?

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21 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

So how many died?

How would we know because we don't have Global League tables measuring these things do we?  
The planet is fixated on measuring Covid cases, hospitalisations and deaths.  To hell with the collateral damage.  

If we are going to haven mandatory testing for Covid why don't we extend the testing to include EVERY transmissible disease that causes death.  TB, HIV, Infuenza etc.

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5 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

How would we know because we don't have Global League tables measuring these things do we?  
The planet is fixated on measuring Covid cases, hospitalisations and deaths.  To hell with the collateral damage.  

If we are going to haven mandatory testing for Covid why don't we extend the testing to include EVERY transmissible disease that causes death.  TB, HIV, Infuenza etc.

So we should be testing infants for tb, HIV and influenza etc?

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16 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

No we shouldn't test "them" just as we shouldn't be testing everyone now.

Test those that are symptomatic.

So, you want to test those that are already showing physical evidence of a disease but not test those who are asymptomatically spreading that disease?

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1 hour ago, Ease the sheet. said:

So, you want to test those that are already showing physical evidence of a disease but not test those who are asymptomatically spreading that disease?

The science says that those that are asymptomatic are not spreading the disease.  That is the nature if RESPIRATORY diseases.

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PSA:

There is no such thing as 'the science'.

There is no widely accepted scientific conclusion that people without symptoms do not spread Covid-19.

See here for one example:

'It’s also unclear to what extent people with no symptoms transmit SARS-CoV-2. The only test for live virus is viral culture. PCR and lateral flow tests do not distinguish live virus. No test of infection or infectiousness is currently available for routine use.'

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851

Thank you for your attention.

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7 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

No we shouldn't test "them" just as we shouldn't be testing everyone now.

Test those that are symptomatic.

That's one of the stupidest things you've posted.

About half of all people infected with... and spreading... covid do not have symptoms; furthermore the ones who do show symptoms are contagious fpor a couple of days before symptoms develop.

Elementary and long known.

Except by you

 

6 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

The science says that those that are asymptomatic are not spreading the disease.  That is the nature if RESPIRATORY diseases.

Utter bullshit

A person who is infected is exhaling and excreting virus. Guess what that means...

- DSK

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According to Dr. Fauci one of the biggest things learned about this virus was asymptomatic people were spreading it - either before showing symptoms or never having them.  This had never happened before and naturally Mikey aka Kateshithisbrains can't seem to ever learn anything new or useful.

Can't fix stupid and can't shut the asshole up and for some reason Scot won't flick him. Don't be like Mikey

Morning-Zen-Part-1.jpg

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Disagree, he got into a spat with Meli/Kate and created this sock.  Will be happy to be proven wrong.  Meanwhile, would like to know which asshole BE is.  I really don't get the "create a sock for a forum" thing.  Of course I don't get socks anyway.

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5 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Disagree, he got into a spat with Meli/Kate and created this sock.  Will be happy to be proven wrong.  Meanwhile, would like to know which asshole BE is.  I really don't get the "create a sock for a forum" thing.  Of course I don't get socks anyway.

Let's just say he's not from the EastCoast.

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2 hours ago, d'ranger said:

According to Dr. Fauci one of the biggest things learned about this virus was asymptomatic people were spreading it -

If Fauci did actually say this then it confirms he doesn't listen to the science and is a fraud.

Asymptomatic cases did NOT drive the pandemic.  Peer reviewed research comparing asymptomatic and symptomatic cases within households have shown asymptomatic infection was negligible.

Other research has shown that asymptomatic infection estimates were initially exaggerated.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4695

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-study-determines-true-asymptomatic-covi

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At the risk of admitting I looked at shirfurbrains post neither Dr. Fauci nor I said that asymptomatic spread was a driving factor, what he said and I repeated was this was a phenomenon that had never been seen before.  Did it contribute? Absolutely compounded with the fact the US had crap for testing having refused existing tests to be "America First" with the first (late to the game) tests being defective.

It never ends.

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35 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

neither Dr. Fauci nor I said that asymptomatic spread was a driving factor

Eh?!  But you said this:

3 hours ago, d'ranger said:

According to Dr. Fauci one of the biggest things learned about this virus was asymptomatic people were spreading it

 

35 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

what he said and I repeated was this was a phenomenon that had never been seen before. 

Fauci supposedly a world leading expert on infectious diseases had never seen asymptomatic cases before?  You're kidding or misquoting?

I dont like quoting Wikipedia but - Asymptomatic carriers play a critical role in the transmission of common infectious diseases such as typhoid, HIV, C. difficile, influenzas, cholera, tuberculosis and COVID-19"

Specifically for respiratory viral diseases https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31063096/

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Lesson II:

Remember young Padawan. Miss Information will tear you apart for one misstep. 

SHe will never care about own missteps. Those are always negligiible, gone with one tiny more tiptoeing around, dancing pirouettes of 'facts' around you.

 

1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

If Fauci did actually say this then it confirms he doesn't listen to the science and is a fraud.

Asymptomatic cases did NOT drive the pandemic.  Peer reviewed research comparing asymptomatic and symptomatic cases within households have shown asymptomatic infection was negligible.

Other research has shown that asymptomatic infection estimates were initially exaggerated.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4695

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-study-determines-true-asymptomatic-covi

Lesson III:

It's worth digging into two things: initial claim  (hold on tightly cause boy, that's gonna shift. A lot!) and supporting source., for example:

Initial claim: 'The science says that those that are asymptomatic are not spreading the disease'

Now,what do the supporting papers actually factually state?

 

Exhibit 1: https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851.

Actual quote from the paper: 

'It’s also unclear to what extent people with no symptoms transmit SARS-CoV-2.'

This does not support the initial claim. Funny enough, it is the exact paper I quoted earlier to point out an earlier non-substantiated claim. Small world, eh?

 

Exhibit 2: https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4695 Actual quote from the paper: 

'The researchers said that their findings did not show that the virus couldn’t be passed on by asymptomatic carriers, and they didn’t suggest that their findings were generalisable.'

This does certainly not support the initial claim.

 

Exhibit 3: https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-study-determines-true-asymptomatic-covi

‘What we suggest from this is that that’s pretty unlikely to happen, [but] there is still a lot of pre-symptomatic transmission.’ 
 
This does certainly also not support the initial claim.

 

So swiftly moving on to the closing claim: 'Other research has shown that asymptomatic infection estimates were initially exaggerated.'

'Exaggerated' is a pleonasm. It makes things sound worse than they are. 'The science' does not exaggerate if done correctly, it has no agenda. The only thing 'the science' does may be overestimating. There. better.

On the core of the claim: there is so far no concluding evidence and widely accepted scientific opinion.

Just because there is 'other research' means nothing.  All it points out is that there is no conclusion but one possible explanation. Heck, there is even 'other research' contemplating the gravitational forces of a flat earth. Still, the overwhelming part of this world thinks that a more round version of this planet is more likely.

 

So: this empress has no clothes on. Nothing to be afraid of. Carry on, young Padawan, chop chop.

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1 hour ago, Matagi said:

Lesson II:

Remember young Padawan. Miss Information will tear you apart for one misstep. 

SHe will never care about own missteps. Those are always negligiible, gone with one tiny more tiptoeing around, dancing pirouettes of 'facts' around you.

 

Lesson III:

It's worth digging into two things: initial claim  (hold on tightly cause boy, that's gonna shift. A lot!) and supporting source., for example:

Initial claim: 'The science says that those that are asymptomatic are not spreading the disease'

Now,what do the supporting papers actually factually state?

 

Exhibit 1: https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851.

Actual quote from the paper: 

'It’s also unclear to what extent people with no symptoms transmit SARS-CoV-2.'

This does not support the initial claim. Funny enough, it is the exact paper I quoted earlier to point out an earlier non-substantiated claim. Small world, eh?

 

Exhibit 2: https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4695 Actual quote from the paper: 

'The researchers said that their findings did not show that the virus couldn’t be passed on by asymptomatic carriers, and they didn’t suggest that their findings were generalisable.'

This does certainly not support the initial claim.

 

Exhibit 3: https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-study-determines-true-asymptomatic-covi

‘What we suggest from this is that that’s pretty unlikely to happen, [but] there is still a lot of pre-symptomatic transmission.’ 
 
This does certainly also not support the initial claim.

 

So swiftly moving on to the closing claim: 'Other research has shown that asymptomatic infection estimates were initially exaggerated.'

'Exaggerated' is a pleonasm. It makes things sound worse than they are. 'The science' does not exaggerate if done correctly, it has no agenda. The only thing 'the science' does may be overestimating. There. better.

On the core of the claim: there is so far no concluding evidence and widely accepted scientific opinion.

Just because there is 'other research' means nothing.  All it points out is that there is no conclusion but one possible explanation. Heck, there is even 'other research' contemplating the gravitational forces of a flat earth. Still, the overwhelming part of this world thinks that a more round version of this planet is more likely.

 

So: this empress has no clothes on. Nothing to be afraid of. Carry on, young Padawan, chop chop.

Geez you must have confused @d'ranger as he liked your post which essentially shot down his claim and Fauci's.

 

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1 hour ago, Matagi said:

Initial claim: 'The science says that those that are asymptomatic are not spreading the disease'

 

On June 7, Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, head of the WHO’s emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, told a press conference that from the known research, asymptomatic spread was “very rare.” “From the data we have, it still seems to be rare that an asymptomatic person actually transmits onward to a secondary individual.” She added for emphasis: “It’s very rare.”

What about this study of 10,000,000 individuals that shows no asymptomatic transmission https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w

Virus cultures were negative for all asymptomatic positive and repositive cases, indicating no “viable virus” in positive cases detected in this study.

All asymptomatic positive cases, repositive cases and their close contacts were isolated for at least 2 weeks until the results of nucleic acid testing were negative. None of detected positive cases or their close contacts became symptomatic or newly confirmed with COVID-19 during the isolation period. In this screening programme, single and mixed testing was performed, respectively, for 76.7% and 23.3% of the collected samples. The asymptomatic positive rates were 0.321 (95% CI 0.282–0.364)/10,000 and 0.243 (95% CI 0.183–0.315)/10,000, respectively.

Or this study - 

Household Transmission of SARS-CoV-2A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2774102

Household secondary attack rates were increased from symptomatic index cases (18.0%; 95% CI, 14.2%-22.1%) than from asymptomatic index cases (0.7%; 95% CI, 0%-4.9%), 

18% symptomatic vs 0.7% asymptomatic WITHIN a household!!!

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From the latter study:

Quote.

However,
presymptomatic transmission does occur, with some studies reporting the timing of peak
infectiousness at approximately the period of symptom onset.

Unquote.

Thank you.

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In a shocking new report on the COVID-19 vaccines, it has been discovered that the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine may have long term health effects not previously disclosed, including “ALS, Alzheimer’s, and other neurological degenerative diseases.”

“The current RNA based SARSCoV-2 vaccines were approved in the US using an emergency order without extensive long term safety testing,” the report declares.

“In this paper the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine was evaluated for the potential to induce prion-based disease in vaccine recipients.” Prion-based diseases are, according to the CDC, a form of neurodegenerative diseases, meaning that the Pfizer vaccine is potentially likely to cause long term damage and negative health effects with regards to the brain.

 

https://scivisionpub.com/pdfs/covid19-rna-based-vaccines-and-the-risk-of-prion-disease-1503.pdf

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Well vaccination rates are falling fast in the US and supply exceeds demand in many areas.  Its like the days of all the emergency hospitals and workers who had nobody to treat!

Lord I do love these folks that can think for themselves and decide to take a pass.

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19 minutes ago, accnick said:

Most of us who can think four ourselves decided to take it.

And depending on your particular situation and implied covid mortality risk I can see that too.  I was glad I was able to help my parents get it.  Right call for them for sure.  There are others I know that have not and will not take it and I don't blame them.

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If one needs to eliminate roaches, termites or any similar pest from the home it is necessary to get rid of all of them. Pretty much accepted by everyone.

Vaccines for a pandemic is the same exact situation except for Freedumb.

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14 minutes ago, Wess said:

And depending on your particular situation and implied covid mortality risk I can see that too.  I was glad I was able to help my parents get it.  Right call for them for sure.  There are others I know that have not and will not take it and I don't blame them.

You "don't blame them" for being self-centered in their decision making and putting yourself and others at risk?  For not helping to achieve collective immunity? 

Just exactly why don't you blame them?  

 

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3 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

If one needs to eliminate roaches, termites or any similar pest from the home it is necessary to get rid of all of them. Pretty much accepted by everyone.

Vaccines for a pandemic is the same exact situation except for Freedumb.

If my house gets infested with cockroaches I reserve the right to think for myself. The constitution says I have a right to do nothing and live with cockroaches and watch them on Fox News where they tell me what to do.

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38 minutes ago, accnick said:

Most of us who can think four ourselves decided to take it.

Most of us who consider ourselves part of our families and community decided to take it as soon as possible.  

Those who enjoy plucking out nuggets of justification plopped into Ayn Rand's unreadable paeans to selfishness can only hope there are very few of like mind.

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2 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

If my house gets infested with cockroaches I reserve the right to think for myself. The constitution says I have a right to do nothing and live with cockroaches and watch them on Fox News where they tell me what to do.

Unless you and your cockroaches form a threat to others.  Then, not so much. 

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On 4/26/2021 at 12:43 PM, dorydude said:

In a shocking new report on the COVID-19 vaccines, it has been discovered that the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine may have long term health effects not previously disclosed, including “ALS, Alzheimer’s, and other neurological degenerative diseases.”

“The current RNA based SARSCoV-2 vaccines were approved in the US using an emergency order without extensive long term safety testing,” the report declares.

“In this paper the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine was evaluated for the potential to induce prion-based disease in vaccine recipients.” Prion-based diseases are, according to the CDC, a form of neurodegenerative diseases, meaning that the Pfizer vaccine is potentially likely to cause long term damage and negative health effects with regards to the brain.

 

https://scivisionpub.com/pdfs/covid19-rna-based-vaccines-and-the-risk-of-prion-disease-1503.pdf

Keywords:  "Agenda-driven", "Peers? What peers", "Let's toss some shit out there and see what sticks."

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4 minutes ago, Left Shift said:Unless you and your cockroaches form a threat to others.  Then, not so much. 

I was joking. I actually think people who opt not to get the vaccine should not be allowed to go into any public building that isn’t their home or a hospital.

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1 minute ago, loneshark64 said:

I was joking. I actually think people who opt not to get the vaccine should not be allowed to go into any public building that isn’t their home or a hospital.

Around here, with the likes of some of our whack-doodle trolls, it can be hard to tell.  I should have figured it out, though.

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14 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

You "don't blame them" for being self-centered in their decision making and putting yourself and others at risk?  For not helping to achieve collective immunity? 

Just exactly why don't you blame them?  

 

Because they made a decision that was right for them.  Nobody should be forced because you or anybody else is scared of your shadow or can't think beyond the tip of their nose.

 

Oh and hi Jack!

 

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26 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

You "don't blame them" for being self-centered in their decision making and putting yourself and others at risk?  For not helping to achieve collective immunity? 

Just exactly why don't you blame them?  

 

Why are those that have had Covid-19 and recovered treated as second class just because they don't need to be vaccinated?  

They are just as protected if not more so than those who have been vaccinated.

I doubt there has been much research on vaccinating those who have already recovered from CoviD-19.  What are the risks?

I'm astounded that people think vaccination is some sort of force field that stops you from being infected and infectious.  They only limit the possibility that you will have serious illness and reduce the chance that you will be infectious.

At the end of the day herd immunity is the goal and there are two paths to get there.

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3 minutes ago, Wess said:

Because they made a decision that was right for them.  Nobody should be forced because you or anybody else is scared of your shadow or can't think beyond the tip of their nose.

 

Oh and hi Jack!

 

Polio would still be running wild if people behaved like that in the 50s. The government didn’t force the vaccine and doesn’t today, but nearly all kids get it. We haven’t had polio in this country since the 70s. All it would take to bring it back is to stop mass vaccination and then have one case from another country fly here on an airplane. Then, boom. In the 50s the government coordinated exactly like they are now under Biden. They did social distancing and later did mass vaccinations. Jonas Salk and the March of Dimes provided credibility. After the fuckup in the mid 50s where live virus was accidentally administered and some kids got sick there was vaccine hesitancy, but then people got back on board. It was not a time of “your facts vs my facts“, government mistrust or hatred of leading figures like Fauci and the Gates foundation, the Jonas Salk and March of dimes of today. People sucked it up, were naively patriotic and did the public thing. It wasn’t all this “everybody make your own personal choice what’s right for you” bullshit.

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24 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Why are those that have had Covid-19 and recovered treated as second class just because they don't need to be vaccinated?  

They are just as protected if not more so than those who have been vaccinated.

I doubt there has been much research on vaccinating those who have already recovered from CoviD-19.  What are the risks?

I'm astounded that people think vaccination is some sort of force field that stops you from being infected and infectious.  They only limit the possibility that you will have serious illness and reduce the chance that you will be infectious.

At the end of the day herd immunity is the goal and there are two paths to get there.

Herd immunity exists but (1) may not be possible with COVID 19, and (2) if it is possible the threshold for reaching it is now out of reach.

There is no evidence anywhere that people who contracted COVID 19 are just as protected as people who got vaccinated.

We don’t know yet how long the immune protection from either contracting or vaccination lasts. Most experts think it doesn’t last forever. Likely more than a year, likely less than 3.

A lot of new research is going into new vaccines for new variants.

So, it is better to get vaccinated and then plan to get further vaccinations as needed for many years. My son and other family members who got it have now gotten vaccinated. Smart thing to do, and leaves no doubt when they want to travel or get a job.

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20 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

Herd immunity exists but (1) may not be possible with COVID 19, and (2) if it is possible the threshold for reaching it is now out of reach.

There is no evidence anywhere that people who contracted COVID 19 are just as protected as people who got vaccinated.

We don’t know yet how long the immune protection from either contracting or vaccination lasts. Most experts think it doesn’t last forever. Likely more than a year, likely less than 3.

A lot of new research is going into new vaccines for new variants.

So, it is better to get vaccinated and then plan to get further vaccinations as needed for many years. My son and other family members who got it have now gotten vaccinated. Smart thing to do, and leaves no doubt when they want to travel or get a job.

If Short for Mikey's "two paths" to herd immunity mean either getting Covid or getting vaccinated, he remains one sick and dumb puppy.

The only reason herd immunity is out of reach is the selfish idiots who think only about themselves.  

And his waving the flag of "people out there" who believe 100% vaccine efficacy to argue against vaccination is downright disingenuous. 94% efficacy and reduced hospitalization are justification enough.  

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Hi from Ontario where we are hopefully on the downslope of our 3d wave. 

Here is a snapshot of the demographics of todays 41 deaths. 

'Among the latest deaths, two people were between 20 and 39 years old, four were between 40 and 59, 18 were between 60 and 79 and 17 were 80 years old and over.'

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-seeing-early-signs-of-improvement-as-province-reports-more-than-3-800-new-covid-19-cases-epidemiologist-says-1.5407122

Also, here are the latest weekly demographics on ICU admissions Canada wide.

Age 20-29 --2.6%

Age 30-39---5.0%

Age 40-49---9.1%

Age50-59---18.3%

Age 60-69---26%

For those interested in looking at the remaining demographics or other weekly numbers, here is the link. https://health-infobase.canada.ca/src/data/covidLive/Epidemiological-summary-of-COVID-19-cases-in-Canada-Canada.ca.pdf

Three days ago, we lost a 13 year old to Covid. One is too many.

I post these numbers because it's a damn shame to hear armchair jargon like 'mortality profile' to rationalize individual choices in the midst of a clear society wide emergency-and one which is changing its face demographically amidst the rise of variants which is our main problem here.

We have Covid triage in many hospital parking lots, have mobilized army and Red Cross to help a beleaguered and outnumbered medical community, and have begun moving patients out of hotspot hospitals overflowing with Covid patients to surrounding regions.

We are having delays in vaccine roll out as our limited supplies have first gone to the elderly, front line workers, and on down the line. We will achieve full availability for the first shot to all consenting adults by the end of May.

My number came up this morning and I'll be rolling up my sleeve tomorrow. Takin one for the team.

Peace.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Kate short for Bob said:

That's sad.  I assume you displayed the same rational concern for the young people who died from influenza in preceding years?

I apply the same rational as I would for the 7 million people in India who die every year of ancient preventable diseases like Typhoid and Cholera.

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

That's sad.  I assume you displayed the same rational concern for the young people who died from influenza in preceding years?

The covid numbers massively dwarf the flu. You are dredging up year-old stupidity. 

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7 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

The covid numbers massively dwarf the flu. You are dredging up year-old stupidity. 

Kate short for Mikey will die on the sword of "Its just the flu."

Do not engage him, much like our Former Guy, he gets off on being quoted.

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Just now, Kate short for Bob said:

Not for the 1 to 19 year age group with respect to mortality.  

Yes

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5 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

Herd immunity exists but (1) may not be possible with COVID 19, and (2) if it is possible the threshold for reaching it is now out of reach.

There is no evidence anywhere that people who contracted COVID 19 are just as protected as people who got vaccinated.

We don’t know yet how long the immune protection from either contracting or vaccination lasts. Most experts think it doesn’t last forever. Likely more than a year, likely less than 3.

A lot of new research is going into new vaccines for new variants.

So, it is better to get vaccinated and then plan to get further vaccinations as needed for many years. My son and other family members who got it have now gotten vaccinated. Smart thing to do, and leaves no doubt when they want to travel or get a job.

Our latest missive from the county-  

1 in 20 vaccinated will not find immunity from the vaccine

       - a test will not determine whether you are immune

        - you can still get COVID

        - you can be asymptomatic while vaccinated and infect others

        - vaccine effectiveness against new variants is a guess.

        -  the Indian variant is in California

30% have had their second shot- 70% have not, they think.  Shots languish unused.

wear a mask

distance

since it it is considered a personal affront to be asked if vaccinated, we have to assume everyone still has it.  The worst is yet to come. ~ 30% of the national population are going to keep masking and distance no matter what.

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Amati said:

Our latest missive from the county-  

1 in 20 vaccinated will not find immunity from the vaccine

       - a test will not determine whether you are immune

        - you can still get COVID

        - you can be asymptomatic while vaccinated and infect others

        - vaccine effectiveness against new variants is a guess.

        -  the Indian variant is in California

30% have had their second shot- 70% have not, they think.  Shots languish unused.

wear a mask

distance

since it it is considered a personal affront to be asked if vaccinated, we have to assume everyone still has it.  The worst is yet to come. ~ 30% of the national population are going to keep masking and distance no matter what.

 

 

 

I suggest you move to Florida or Texas.

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21 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I suggest you move to Florida or Texas.

I hope I have the luck to avoid you.

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1 minute ago, Amati said:

I hope I have the luck to avoid you.

It'll be OK you can wear a mask and sit at the other end of the table while I drink a nice craft brewed pilsner and in a civil and cogent manner we can discuss pandemic strategies as equal non experts.

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On 4/30/2021 at 8:51 AM, Left Shift said:

Kate short for Mikey will die on the sword of "Its just the flu."

Do not engage him, much like our Former Guy, he gets off on being quoted.

The WHO, the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) as well as numerous scientists have confirmed unequivocally that Covid-19 is  “similar to seasonal influenza”.

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23 hours ago, dorydude said:

The WHO, the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) as well as numerous scientists have confirmed unequivocally that Covid-19 is  “similar to seasonal influenza”.

Similar in that it is a virus, it mutates, it is spread via aerosols and can be ameliorated though vaccination.  Sure.  

Of course, Covid-19 has that little problem of infecting, damaging and killing about 10 times as many people.  Like  that "seasonal flu" that is spreading throughout India.  Or the one spreading across the US in four waves, completely out of flu season.  I believe the WHO and the CDC and "numerous scientists" have added more than a little nuance to that bald statement.  

Nice selective quotation there.  Go back to troll school, Mikey.

 

 

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