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When offered the Vaccine, will you take it?


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2 hours ago, d'ranger said:

According to Dr. Fauci one of the biggest things learned about this virus was asymptomatic people were spreading it -

If Fauci did actually say this then it confirms he doesn't listen to the science and is a fraud.

Asymptomatic cases did NOT drive the pandemic.  Peer reviewed research comparing asymptomatic and symptomatic cases within households have shown asymptomatic infection was negligible.

Other research has shown that asymptomatic infection estimates were initially exaggerated.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4695

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-study-determines-true-asymptomatic-covi

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The private sector has embarked on a major campaign to reassure the public that they will not release a vaccine until they are confident it is safe and effective. We can expect a joint statement from

As many of you know I am right of center politically.  I dont think vaccines are a political issue or at least they should not be.  My family are all vaccinated. I tried to think of how I should

You are such a bag of shit wrapped in a thin veneer of pseudo self esteem. You are a walking around killer of strangers free riding on those who got vaccinated. Sponger.

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At the risk of admitting I looked at shirfurbrains post neither Dr. Fauci nor I said that asymptomatic spread was a driving factor, what he said and I repeated was this was a phenomenon that had never been seen before.  Did it contribute? Absolutely compounded with the fact the US had crap for testing having refused existing tests to be "America First" with the first (late to the game) tests being defective.

It never ends.

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35 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

neither Dr. Fauci nor I said that asymptomatic spread was a driving factor

Eh?!  But you said this:

3 hours ago, d'ranger said:

According to Dr. Fauci one of the biggest things learned about this virus was asymptomatic people were spreading it

 

35 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

what he said and I repeated was this was a phenomenon that had never been seen before. 

Fauci supposedly a world leading expert on infectious diseases had never seen asymptomatic cases before?  You're kidding or misquoting?

I dont like quoting Wikipedia but - Asymptomatic carriers play a critical role in the transmission of common infectious diseases such as typhoid, HIV, C. difficile, influenzas, cholera, tuberculosis and COVID-19"

Specifically for respiratory viral diseases https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31063096/

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Lesson II:

Remember young Padawan. Miss Information will tear you apart for one misstep. 

SHe will never care about own missteps. Those are always negligiible, gone with one tiny more tiptoeing around, dancing pirouettes of 'facts' around you.

 

1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

If Fauci did actually say this then it confirms he doesn't listen to the science and is a fraud.

Asymptomatic cases did NOT drive the pandemic.  Peer reviewed research comparing asymptomatic and symptomatic cases within households have shown asymptomatic infection was negligible.

Other research has shown that asymptomatic infection estimates were initially exaggerated.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4695

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-study-determines-true-asymptomatic-covi

Lesson III:

It's worth digging into two things: initial claim  (hold on tightly cause boy, that's gonna shift. A lot!) and supporting source., for example:

Initial claim: 'The science says that those that are asymptomatic are not spreading the disease'

Now,what do the supporting papers actually factually state?

 

Exhibit 1: https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851.

Actual quote from the paper: 

'It’s also unclear to what extent people with no symptoms transmit SARS-CoV-2.'

This does not support the initial claim. Funny enough, it is the exact paper I quoted earlier to point out an earlier non-substantiated claim. Small world, eh?

 

Exhibit 2: https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4695 Actual quote from the paper: 

'The researchers said that their findings did not show that the virus couldn’t be passed on by asymptomatic carriers, and they didn’t suggest that their findings were generalisable.'

This does certainly not support the initial claim.

 

Exhibit 3: https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-study-determines-true-asymptomatic-covi

‘What we suggest from this is that that’s pretty unlikely to happen, [but] there is still a lot of pre-symptomatic transmission.’ 
 
This does certainly also not support the initial claim.

 

So swiftly moving on to the closing claim: 'Other research has shown that asymptomatic infection estimates were initially exaggerated.'

'Exaggerated' is a pleonasm. It makes things sound worse than they are. 'The science' does not exaggerate if done correctly, it has no agenda. The only thing 'the science' does may be overestimating. There. better.

On the core of the claim: there is so far no concluding evidence and widely accepted scientific opinion.

Just because there is 'other research' means nothing.  All it points out is that there is no conclusion but one possible explanation. Heck, there is even 'other research' contemplating the gravitational forces of a flat earth. Still, the overwhelming part of this world thinks that a more round version of this planet is more likely.

 

So: this empress has no clothes on. Nothing to be afraid of. Carry on, young Padawan, chop chop.

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1 hour ago, Matagi said:

Lesson II:

Remember young Padawan. Miss Information will tear you apart for one misstep. 

SHe will never care about own missteps. Those are always negligiible, gone with one tiny more tiptoeing around, dancing pirouettes of 'facts' around you.

 

Lesson III:

It's worth digging into two things: initial claim  (hold on tightly cause boy, that's gonna shift. A lot!) and supporting source., for example:

Initial claim: 'The science says that those that are asymptomatic are not spreading the disease'

Now,what do the supporting papers actually factually state?

 

Exhibit 1: https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851.

Actual quote from the paper: 

'It’s also unclear to what extent people with no symptoms transmit SARS-CoV-2.'

This does not support the initial claim. Funny enough, it is the exact paper I quoted earlier to point out an earlier non-substantiated claim. Small world, eh?

 

Exhibit 2: https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4695 Actual quote from the paper: 

'The researchers said that their findings did not show that the virus couldn’t be passed on by asymptomatic carriers, and they didn’t suggest that their findings were generalisable.'

This does certainly not support the initial claim.

 

Exhibit 3: https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-study-determines-true-asymptomatic-covi

‘What we suggest from this is that that’s pretty unlikely to happen, [but] there is still a lot of pre-symptomatic transmission.’ 
 
This does certainly also not support the initial claim.

 

So swiftly moving on to the closing claim: 'Other research has shown that asymptomatic infection estimates were initially exaggerated.'

'Exaggerated' is a pleonasm. It makes things sound worse than they are. 'The science' does not exaggerate if done correctly, it has no agenda. The only thing 'the science' does may be overestimating. There. better.

On the core of the claim: there is so far no concluding evidence and widely accepted scientific opinion.

Just because there is 'other research' means nothing.  All it points out is that there is no conclusion but one possible explanation. Heck, there is even 'other research' contemplating the gravitational forces of a flat earth. Still, the overwhelming part of this world thinks that a more round version of this planet is more likely.

 

So: this empress has no clothes on. Nothing to be afraid of. Carry on, young Padawan, chop chop.

Geez you must have confused @d'ranger as he liked your post which essentially shot down his claim and Fauci's.

 

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1 hour ago, Matagi said:

Initial claim: 'The science says that those that are asymptomatic are not spreading the disease'

 

On June 7, Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, head of the WHO’s emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, told a press conference that from the known research, asymptomatic spread was “very rare.” “From the data we have, it still seems to be rare that an asymptomatic person actually transmits onward to a secondary individual.” She added for emphasis: “It’s very rare.”

What about this study of 10,000,000 individuals that shows no asymptomatic transmission https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w

Virus cultures were negative for all asymptomatic positive and repositive cases, indicating no “viable virus” in positive cases detected in this study.

All asymptomatic positive cases, repositive cases and their close contacts were isolated for at least 2 weeks until the results of nucleic acid testing were negative. None of detected positive cases or their close contacts became symptomatic or newly confirmed with COVID-19 during the isolation period. In this screening programme, single and mixed testing was performed, respectively, for 76.7% and 23.3% of the collected samples. The asymptomatic positive rates were 0.321 (95% CI 0.282–0.364)/10,000 and 0.243 (95% CI 0.183–0.315)/10,000, respectively.

Or this study - 

Household Transmission of SARS-CoV-2A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2774102

Household secondary attack rates were increased from symptomatic index cases (18.0%; 95% CI, 14.2%-22.1%) than from asymptomatic index cases (0.7%; 95% CI, 0%-4.9%), 

18% symptomatic vs 0.7% asymptomatic WITHIN a household!!!

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From the latter study:

Quote.

However,
presymptomatic transmission does occur, with some studies reporting the timing of peak
infectiousness at approximately the period of symptom onset.

Unquote.

Thank you.

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Well vaccination rates are falling fast in the US and supply exceeds demand in many areas.  Its like the days of all the emergency hospitals and workers who had nobody to treat!

Lord I do love these folks that can think for themselves and decide to take a pass.

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19 minutes ago, accnick said:

Most of us who can think four ourselves decided to take it.

And depending on your particular situation and implied covid mortality risk I can see that too.  I was glad I was able to help my parents get it.  Right call for them for sure.  There are others I know that have not and will not take it and I don't blame them.

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If one needs to eliminate roaches, termites or any similar pest from the home it is necessary to get rid of all of them. Pretty much accepted by everyone.

Vaccines for a pandemic is the same exact situation except for Freedumb.

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14 minutes ago, Wess said:

And depending on your particular situation and implied covid mortality risk I can see that too.  I was glad I was able to help my parents get it.  Right call for them for sure.  There are others I know that have not and will not take it and I don't blame them.

You "don't blame them" for being self-centered in their decision making and putting yourself and others at risk?  For not helping to achieve collective immunity? 

Just exactly why don't you blame them?  

 

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3 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

If one needs to eliminate roaches, termites or any similar pest from the home it is necessary to get rid of all of them. Pretty much accepted by everyone.

Vaccines for a pandemic is the same exact situation except for Freedumb.

If my house gets infested with cockroaches I reserve the right to think for myself. The constitution says I have a right to do nothing and live with cockroaches and watch them on Fox News where they tell me what to do.

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38 minutes ago, accnick said:

Most of us who can think four ourselves decided to take it.

Most of us who consider ourselves part of our families and community decided to take it as soon as possible.  

Those who enjoy plucking out nuggets of justification plopped into Ayn Rand's unreadable paeans to selfishness can only hope there are very few of like mind.

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2 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

If my house gets infested with cockroaches I reserve the right to think for myself. The constitution says I have a right to do nothing and live with cockroaches and watch them on Fox News where they tell me what to do.

Unless you and your cockroaches form a threat to others.  Then, not so much. 

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On 4/26/2021 at 12:43 PM, dorydude said:

In a shocking new report on the COVID-19 vaccines, it has been discovered that the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine may have long term health effects not previously disclosed, including “ALS, Alzheimer’s, and other neurological degenerative diseases.”

“The current RNA based SARSCoV-2 vaccines were approved in the US using an emergency order without extensive long term safety testing,” the report declares.

“In this paper the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine was evaluated for the potential to induce prion-based disease in vaccine recipients.” Prion-based diseases are, according to the CDC, a form of neurodegenerative diseases, meaning that the Pfizer vaccine is potentially likely to cause long term damage and negative health effects with regards to the brain.

 

https://scivisionpub.com/pdfs/covid19-rna-based-vaccines-and-the-risk-of-prion-disease-1503.pdf

Keywords:  "Agenda-driven", "Peers? What peers", "Let's toss some shit out there and see what sticks."

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4 minutes ago, Left Shift said:Unless you and your cockroaches form a threat to others.  Then, not so much. 

I was joking. I actually think people who opt not to get the vaccine should not be allowed to go into any public building that isn’t their home or a hospital.

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1 minute ago, loneshark64 said:

I was joking. I actually think people who opt not to get the vaccine should not be allowed to go into any public building that isn’t their home or a hospital.

Around here, with the likes of some of our whack-doodle trolls, it can be hard to tell.  I should have figured it out, though.

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14 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

You "don't blame them" for being self-centered in their decision making and putting yourself and others at risk?  For not helping to achieve collective immunity? 

Just exactly why don't you blame them?  

 

Because they made a decision that was right for them.  Nobody should be forced because you or anybody else is scared of your shadow or can't think beyond the tip of their nose.

 

Oh and hi Jack!

 

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26 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

You "don't blame them" for being self-centered in their decision making and putting yourself and others at risk?  For not helping to achieve collective immunity? 

Just exactly why don't you blame them?  

 

Why are those that have had Covid-19 and recovered treated as second class just because they don't need to be vaccinated?  

They are just as protected if not more so than those who have been vaccinated.

I doubt there has been much research on vaccinating those who have already recovered from CoviD-19.  What are the risks?

I'm astounded that people think vaccination is some sort of force field that stops you from being infected and infectious.  They only limit the possibility that you will have serious illness and reduce the chance that you will be infectious.

At the end of the day herd immunity is the goal and there are two paths to get there.

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3 minutes ago, Wess said:

Because they made a decision that was right for them.  Nobody should be forced because you or anybody else is scared of your shadow or can't think beyond the tip of their nose.

 

Oh and hi Jack!

 

Polio would still be running wild if people behaved like that in the 50s. The government didn’t force the vaccine and doesn’t today, but nearly all kids get it. We haven’t had polio in this country since the 70s. All it would take to bring it back is to stop mass vaccination and then have one case from another country fly here on an airplane. Then, boom. In the 50s the government coordinated exactly like they are now under Biden. They did social distancing and later did mass vaccinations. Jonas Salk and the March of Dimes provided credibility. After the fuckup in the mid 50s where live virus was accidentally administered and some kids got sick there was vaccine hesitancy, but then people got back on board. It was not a time of “your facts vs my facts“, government mistrust or hatred of leading figures like Fauci and the Gates foundation, the Jonas Salk and March of dimes of today. People sucked it up, were naively patriotic and did the public thing. It wasn’t all this “everybody make your own personal choice what’s right for you” bullshit.

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24 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Why are those that have had Covid-19 and recovered treated as second class just because they don't need to be vaccinated?  

They are just as protected if not more so than those who have been vaccinated.

I doubt there has been much research on vaccinating those who have already recovered from CoviD-19.  What are the risks?

I'm astounded that people think vaccination is some sort of force field that stops you from being infected and infectious.  They only limit the possibility that you will have serious illness and reduce the chance that you will be infectious.

At the end of the day herd immunity is the goal and there are two paths to get there.

Herd immunity exists but (1) may not be possible with COVID 19, and (2) if it is possible the threshold for reaching it is now out of reach.

There is no evidence anywhere that people who contracted COVID 19 are just as protected as people who got vaccinated.

We don’t know yet how long the immune protection from either contracting or vaccination lasts. Most experts think it doesn’t last forever. Likely more than a year, likely less than 3.

A lot of new research is going into new vaccines for new variants.

So, it is better to get vaccinated and then plan to get further vaccinations as needed for many years. My son and other family members who got it have now gotten vaccinated. Smart thing to do, and leaves no doubt when they want to travel or get a job.

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20 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

Herd immunity exists but (1) may not be possible with COVID 19, and (2) if it is possible the threshold for reaching it is now out of reach.

There is no evidence anywhere that people who contracted COVID 19 are just as protected as people who got vaccinated.

We don’t know yet how long the immune protection from either contracting or vaccination lasts. Most experts think it doesn’t last forever. Likely more than a year, likely less than 3.

A lot of new research is going into new vaccines for new variants.

So, it is better to get vaccinated and then plan to get further vaccinations as needed for many years. My son and other family members who got it have now gotten vaccinated. Smart thing to do, and leaves no doubt when they want to travel or get a job.

If Short for Mikey's "two paths" to herd immunity mean either getting Covid or getting vaccinated, he remains one sick and dumb puppy.

The only reason herd immunity is out of reach is the selfish idiots who think only about themselves.  

And his waving the flag of "people out there" who believe 100% vaccine efficacy to argue against vaccination is downright disingenuous. 94% efficacy and reduced hospitalization are justification enough.  

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Hi from Ontario where we are hopefully on the downslope of our 3d wave. 

Here is a snapshot of the demographics of todays 41 deaths. 

'Among the latest deaths, two people were between 20 and 39 years old, four were between 40 and 59, 18 were between 60 and 79 and 17 were 80 years old and over.'

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-seeing-early-signs-of-improvement-as-province-reports-more-than-3-800-new-covid-19-cases-epidemiologist-says-1.5407122

Also, here are the latest weekly demographics on ICU admissions Canada wide.

Age 20-29 --2.6%

Age 30-39---5.0%

Age 40-49---9.1%

Age50-59---18.3%

Age 60-69---26%

For those interested in looking at the remaining demographics or other weekly numbers, here is the link. https://health-infobase.canada.ca/src/data/covidLive/Epidemiological-summary-of-COVID-19-cases-in-Canada-Canada.ca.pdf

Three days ago, we lost a 13 year old to Covid. One is too many.

I post these numbers because it's a damn shame to hear armchair jargon like 'mortality profile' to rationalize individual choices in the midst of a clear society wide emergency-and one which is changing its face demographically amidst the rise of variants which is our main problem here.

We have Covid triage in many hospital parking lots, have mobilized army and Red Cross to help a beleaguered and outnumbered medical community, and have begun moving patients out of hotspot hospitals overflowing with Covid patients to surrounding regions.

We are having delays in vaccine roll out as our limited supplies have first gone to the elderly, front line workers, and on down the line. We will achieve full availability for the first shot to all consenting adults by the end of May.

My number came up this morning and I'll be rolling up my sleeve tomorrow. Takin one for the team.

Peace.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Kate short for Bob said:

That's sad.  I assume you displayed the same rational concern for the young people who died from influenza in preceding years?

I apply the same rational as I would for the 7 million people in India who die every year of ancient preventable diseases like Typhoid and Cholera.

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

That's sad.  I assume you displayed the same rational concern for the young people who died from influenza in preceding years?

The covid numbers massively dwarf the flu. You are dredging up year-old stupidity. 

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7 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

The covid numbers massively dwarf the flu. You are dredging up year-old stupidity. 

Kate short for Mikey will die on the sword of "Its just the flu."

Do not engage him, much like our Former Guy, he gets off on being quoted.

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Just now, Kate short for Bob said:

Not for the 1 to 19 year age group with respect to mortality.  

Yes

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5 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

Herd immunity exists but (1) may not be possible with COVID 19, and (2) if it is possible the threshold for reaching it is now out of reach.

There is no evidence anywhere that people who contracted COVID 19 are just as protected as people who got vaccinated.

We don’t know yet how long the immune protection from either contracting or vaccination lasts. Most experts think it doesn’t last forever. Likely more than a year, likely less than 3.

A lot of new research is going into new vaccines for new variants.

So, it is better to get vaccinated and then plan to get further vaccinations as needed for many years. My son and other family members who got it have now gotten vaccinated. Smart thing to do, and leaves no doubt when they want to travel or get a job.

Our latest missive from the county-  

1 in 20 vaccinated will not find immunity from the vaccine

       - a test will not determine whether you are immune

        - you can still get COVID

        - you can be asymptomatic while vaccinated and infect others

        - vaccine effectiveness against new variants is a guess.

        -  the Indian variant is in California

30% have had their second shot- 70% have not, they think.  Shots languish unused.

wear a mask

distance

since it it is considered a personal affront to be asked if vaccinated, we have to assume everyone still has it.  The worst is yet to come. ~ 30% of the national population are going to keep masking and distance no matter what.

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Amati said:

Our latest missive from the county-  

1 in 20 vaccinated will not find immunity from the vaccine

       - a test will not determine whether you are immune

        - you can still get COVID

        - you can be asymptomatic while vaccinated and infect others

        - vaccine effectiveness against new variants is a guess.

        -  the Indian variant is in California

30% have had their second shot- 70% have not, they think.  Shots languish unused.

wear a mask

distance

since it it is considered a personal affront to be asked if vaccinated, we have to assume everyone still has it.  The worst is yet to come. ~ 30% of the national population are going to keep masking and distance no matter what.

 

 

 

I suggest you move to Florida or Texas.

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21 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I suggest you move to Florida or Texas.

I hope I have the luck to avoid you.

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1 minute ago, Amati said:

I hope I have the luck to avoid you.

It'll be OK you can wear a mask and sit at the other end of the table while I drink a nice craft brewed pilsner and in a civil and cogent manner we can discuss pandemic strategies as equal non experts.

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29 minutes ago, dorydude said:

The WHO, the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) as well as numerous scientists have confirmed unequivocally that Covid-19 is  “similar to seasonal influenza”.

Of course it's similar.

The both kill people.

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23 hours ago, dorydude said:

The WHO, the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) as well as numerous scientists have confirmed unequivocally that Covid-19 is  “similar to seasonal influenza”.

Similar in that it is a virus, it mutates, it is spread via aerosols and can be ameliorated though vaccination.  Sure.  

Of course, Covid-19 has that little problem of infecting, damaging and killing about 10 times as many people.  Like  that "seasonal flu" that is spreading throughout India.  Or the one spreading across the US in four waves, completely out of flu season.  I believe the WHO and the CDC and "numerous scientists" have added more than a little nuance to that bald statement.  

Nice selective quotation there.  Go back to troll school, Mikey.

 

 

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Dunno why that stupid debate with Mikey and co is still getting traction.

I do wonder though.

We are now 6 months into vaccinations.

With all these mutations, does anyone know if Pfizer et al are tweeking the vaccines to deal with the mutations? As is done every year with Flu shots?

I'm wondering if here on Oz and NZ where the virus is under control, if we are better waiting for mark ll ?

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18 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Dunno why that stupid debate with Mikey and co is still getting traction.

I do wonder though.

We are now 6 months into vaccinations.

With all these mutations, does anyone know if Pfizer et al are tweeking the vaccines to deal with the mutations? As is done every year with Flu shots?

I'm wondering if here on Oz and NZ where the virus is under control, if we are better waiting for mark ll ?

The covid vaccine is different to the flu vaccine.

 

There is no reason to to wait.

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8 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

The covid vaccine is different to the flu vaccine.

 

There is no reason to to wait.

Well der, I know it's different.

But I'm just thinking that by the time our illustrious leader sorts the supply shit out, there might be something better to cope with the variations?

As soon as Scotty lets us out, I'm off to France and Greece. I want my vaccine to best guard me and people over there from the latest mutation that might crop up.

 

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2 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Well der, I know it's different.

But I'm just thinking that by the time our illustrious leader sorts the supply shit out, there might be something better to cope with the variations?

As soon as Scotty lets us out, I'm off to France and Greece. I want my vaccine to best guard me and people over there from the latest mutation that might crop up.

 

If you really knew why/how it is different, you'd understand why the flu vaccine doesn't capture mutations while the covid 1 does.

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40 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

If you really knew why/how it is different, you'd understand why the flu vaccine doesn't capture mutations while the covid 1 does.

I didn't say I knew why or how it was different.

I'll leave that stuff to all the experts here.

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Moderna has been working on a mutant vaccine booster for a while. I expect mine toward the end of the year.

I also get a flu shot every year. No biggie.

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54 minutes ago, Al Paca said:

I get my 2nd Pfizer shot in about an hour. How long before that nano chip kicks in? 

You should receive an electronic notification within a few hours from the Gate keeper.

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1 hour ago, Al Paca said:

I get my 2nd Pfizer shot in about an hour. How long before that nano chip kicks in? 

If you don't get the notification, you will realize it when you get the automatic vacca  discount at the grocery store.

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4 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Moderna has been working on a mutant vaccine booster for a while. I expect mine toward the end of the year.

I also get a flu shot every year. No biggie.

I take it you don't sail or step on a boat at any stage now given your extreme aversion to negligible risk.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I take it you don't sail or step on a boat at any stage now given your extreme aversion to negligible risk.

I choose my risks.  Nothing about covid sounded like fun. Risk-reward, ya know? 

Plus, the last year before we started getting flu shots, we both were sick as dogs for 2 weeks, felt awful another week, and my skin peeled off afterwards. Put a pall on our anniversary trip to Hawaii. Nothing about flu sounds like fun either.

Edited by NeedAClew
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5 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

I choose my risks.  Nothing about covid sounded like fun. Risk-reward, ya know? 

Plus, the last year before we started getting flu shots, we both were sick as dogs for 2 weeks, felt awful another week, and my skin peeled off afterwards. Put a pall on our anniversary trip to Hawaii. Nothing about flu sounds like fun either.

Then wrap yourself in cling wrap, hermetically seal your house and get food delivered.

Make sure your TV can split screen CNN and MSN.

Did you stop to think that the reason you didn't die from Covid-19 is because even though it was "rampant" through your community is because you may have had some prior immunity or you had it and didn't know it (like the majority of people) or it isn't as contagious as you think it is?

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3 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Then why force children to be vaccinated when they are at no risk from serious illness?

I don't have a dog in that fight, are you talking about measles? Polio? Mumps? Tetanus? Meningitis? The dead 9 year old in Hawaii? No is a big word, hun.

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1 minute ago, Kate short for Bob said:

1. Then wrap yourself in cling wrap, hermetically seal your house and get food delivered.

2. Make sure your TV can split screen CNN and MSN.

3. Did you stop to think that the reason you didn't die from Covid-19 is because even though it was "rampant" through your community is because you may have had some prior immunity or you had it and didn't know it (like the majority of people) or it isn't as contagious as you think it is?

 

1. Did that pretty much. 

2. Is MSN still a thing? I thought it went away with @msn.com email addresses.

3. No. Dying isn't the only bad outcome btw. I also dislike being sick, being hospitalized, having long term effects. I never did have it as it turns out. Am in a clinical community surveillance trial and had no antibodies prior to vaccination. 

Or else they didn't last a year, which was when I had "something."  Hmmmmm....

Anyway, you keep doing you, hun.

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On 4/29/2021 at 3:31 PM, Left Shift said:
On 4/26/2021 at 3:43 PM, dorydude said:

In a shocking new report on the COVID-19 vaccines, it has been discovered that the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine may have long term health effects not previously disclosed, including “ALS, Alzheimer’s, and other neurological degenerative diseases.”

“The current RNA based SARSCoV-2 vaccines were approved in the US using an emergency order without extensive long term safety testing,” the report declares.

“In this paper the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine was evaluated for the potential to induce prion-based disease in vaccine recipients.” Prion-based diseases are, according to the CDC, a form of neurodegenerative diseases, meaning that the Pfizer vaccine is potentially likely to cause long term damage and negative health effects with regards to the brain.

 

https://scivisionpub.com/pdfs/covid19-rna-based-vaccines-and-the-risk-of-prion-disease-1503.pdf

Expand  

Expand  

Keywords:  "Agenda-driven", "Peers? What peers", "Let's toss some shit out there and see what sticks."

 

Hmmm.... "long-term effects" from a vaccine which has been in use less than a year....

That's some very impressive science, it's almost like just making shit up!

- DSK

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

Hmmm.... "long-term effects" from a vaccine which has been in use less than a year....

That's some very impressive science, it's almost like just making shit up!

- DSK

Every paid-for-an-opinion science major has been writing up abstracts for "research" grants based on anecdotal events or from pure dorm room speculation and getting them published on back-alley websites.  Most of them read better in the original Ukrainian.

The 4chan's and 8chan's and OAN's eat this shit up, regurgitate it and spread it on the toasted brains of their followers.

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Shit's getting real over here in WA state. Many of the vaccination sites are converting from appointment only to walk-up, all the major universities are mandating vaccinations for their students (and probably eventually for the staff, but not yet), and the Governor is floating the idea of tying the opening phases of the various counties to the percentage vaccinated rather than to case levels. 

It seems that the trend is slowly but surely to establish social consequences for the socially irresponsible among us and I am here for all of it.

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On 5/3/2021 at 9:14 AM, Al Paca said:

I get my 2nd Pfizer shot in about an hour. How long before that nano chip kicks in? 

It’s been 24 hrs. If anything a very, very slight lightheaded feeling.  Gonna stay home from work and get my taxes together. 

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On 5/3/2021 at 2:15 PM, Kate short for Bob said:

Then wrap yourself in cling wrap, hermetically seal your house and get food delivered.

Make sure your TV can split screen CNN and MSN.

Did you stop to think that the reason you didn't die from Covid-19 is because even though it was "rampant" through your community is because you may have had some prior immunity or you had it and didn't know it (like the majority of people) or it isn't as contagious as you think it is?

Did you stop to think that it was because she took all the  recommended precautions to protect herself?

Do you stop to think about anything?

 

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58 minutes ago, accnick said:

Did you stop to think that it was because she took all the  recommended precautions to protect herself?

Do you stop to think about anything?

 

Certainly don't wait for the Government to tell me what to think.

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Local community is 43% two doses and 55% single dose (pop over 16 years old), we are slowly getting there. Sadly, just over 70% fully vaccinated for folk over 65 and hence we still have deaths among those stupid enough not to get vaccinated. Most cases now are in younger people, and while few of them die, some are still ending up in hospital. 

State of Illinois has now decided that rate of immunization as well as case levels and hospitalization percentages will determine re-opening. But trends are all positive so we should move to next level of opening next week, and hopefully fully open next month.

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On 5/4/2021 at 10:52 AM, Al Paca said:

It’s been 24 hrs. If anything a very, very slight lightheaded feeling.  Gonna stay home from work and get my taxes together. 

Got my second Pfizer shot on Thursday.  24 hours later I had the worst headache of my life.  Now I'm on day 2 and the headache is still there, though thankfully not as severe.  I've got my fingers crossed that the side effects only last the 48 hours I hear so much about.  

The first time I went to the vaccination center, there were hundreds of people in line ahead of me.  The second time it was a ghost town and I was able to walk right in.  

Hopefully that was just coincidence, and not validation of the stories I've read about fewer and fewer people getting their second injection.  

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Here in the UK we so far we've about 58% of adults having had 1 jab, 26% having had 2 jabs. Every one should have been offered their first jab by the end of July , the second by the end of September.

The local area due to our high average age, has had 72% having had at least 1 jab, 35% 2 jabs. Our second is on Thursday. Pfizer only had sore arm after the first one.

The projections indicate a 94% final take up rate.

Our county of 2074 square miles has a covid rate of just under 15 per 100,000 people, but the local area the sailing club is in, 371 square miles, has  just 6 per 100,000 and no deaths for several weeks.

 

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My employer gave us an incentive (8 hours paid time off) to show proof of full vaccination with a deadline of Sep.

The only person I know who is too tin-hat to take advantage of something like that would be my mother in-law but my wife assures me that she was sane before she retired and went full FQX News.

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1 hour ago, Teener said:

My employer gave us an incentive (8 hours paid time off) to show proof of full vaccination with a deadline of Sep.

The only person I know who is too tin-hat to take advantage of something like that would be my mother in-law but my wife assures me that she was sane before she retired and went full FQX News.

That is another example of a good idea.  Its using the carrot not the stick so it doesn't feel quite as oppressive or coercive but achieves the desired outcome.

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23 minutes ago, Tharsheblows said:

That is another example of a good idea.  Its using the carrot not the stick so it doesn't feel quite as oppressive or coercive but achieves the desired outcome.

Agreed, but it's a shame you have to bribe some people to get them to do the right thing.

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2 hours ago, Teener said:

My employer gave us an incentive (8 hours paid time off) to show proof of full vaccination with a deadline of Sep.

The only person I know who is too tin-hat to take advantage of something like that would be my mother in-law but my wife assures me that she was sane before she retired and went full FQX News.

My employer did similar, but unleashed a new weapon today. We intend to keep the mask requirement for at least another six months. However, anyone who stops by HR and shows proof that they’re fully vaccinated (plus two weeks) can get a sticker to go on their ID badge. If you’ve got the sticker, no mask required. So now they’re offering the carrot and the stick. I like it. 

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56 minutes ago, accnick said:

Agreed, but it's a shame you have to bribe some people to get them to do the right thing.

Yes, but the softer approach is good for a few reasons.  First, it is your assumption that it is the “right thing.”  (Which is probably a good assumption).

But there are many people in the world with various different conditions and situations which might make it not “the right thing.”  It certainly was not the “right thing” for those very, very few people that were healthy until they died of blood clots caused by the vaccines.

Also, many young people may feel that the vaccine is a bigger threat to their personal health than the virus.  (You may reply that they should do it for others but you must remember that in the US we have a fundamental right to bodily integrity) 

By offering incentives instead of mandates companies/governments are getting voluntary cooperation without unleashing their inner Musolini.

And it is also allowing those who feel strongly against the vaccine the option to continuing to take other precautions.

 

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1 hour ago, Tharsheblows said:

Yes, but the softer approach is good for a few reasons.  First, it is your assumption that it is the “right thing.”  (Which is probably a good assumption).

But there are many people in the world with various different conditions and situations which might make it not “the right thing.”  It certainly was not the “right thing” for those very, very few people that were healthy until they died of blood clots caused by the vaccines.

Also, many young people may feel that the vaccine is a bigger threat to their personal health than the virus.  (You may reply that they should do it for others but you must remember that in the US we have a fundamental right to bodily integrity) 

By offering incentives instead of mandates companies/governments are getting voluntary cooperation without unleashing their inner Musolini.

And it is also allowing those who feel strongly against the vaccine the option to continuing to take other precautions.

 

Yep, and I’m ok with that. 

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 (You may reply that they should do it for others but you must remember that in the US we have a fundamental right to bodily integrity) 

I wonder what the Venn digram of bodily integrity vaccine refusers and bodily integrity right to choosers looks like. 

But what about the OTHER LIFE?  Yeah, exactly.  Externalities can be inconvenient. 

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2 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

 (You may reply that they should do it for others but you must remember that in the US we have a fundamental right to bodily integrity) 

I wonder what the Venn digram of bodily integrity vaccine refusers and bodily integrity right to choosers looks like. 

But what about the OTHER LIFE?  Yeah, exactly.  Externalities can be inconvenient. 

lol, exactly!  Its precisely the same argument but many parties are on the polar opposite sides depending on the subject matter.

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https://www.pbs.org/video/vaccines-huvzkv/

This is a documentary on how vaccines came about with the history of the smallpox one including an effective treatment before Jenner's, then how the resistance to getting it was overcome (Thomas Jefferson tried it out on his slaves first).  Some time is spent on the improvements up to the current ones and how they could go  so quickly.  It ends with how we as a world ended smallpox and what it took to get there. Now, covid could be ended the same way but unless the anti-vaxxers and those hesitant don't do it it's going to be here for a long time and as it circulates it will continue to mutate.

Not getting vaccinated? Enjoy being a self centered entitled prick while much of the world would do anything to take your place.

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2 hours ago, d'ranger said:

https://www.pbs.org/video/vaccines-huvzkv/

This is a documentary on how vaccines came about with the history of the smallpox one including an effective treatment before Jenner's, then how the resistance to getting it was overcome (Thomas Jefferson tried it out on his slaves first).  Some time is spent on the improvements up to the current ones and how they could go  so quickly.  It ends with how we as a world ended smallpox and what it took to get there. Now, covid could be ended the same way but unless the anti-vaxxers and those hesitant don't do it it's going to be here for a long time and as it circulates it will continue to mutate.

Not getting vaccinated? Enjoy being a self centered entitled prick while much of the world would do anything to take your place.

Except that smallpox used to kill almost 30% of the people who caught it, many of whom were children and young adults and COVID kills about .5% (or less) of the people who catch it and almost none of the fatalities are children and young adults...so the numbers are dramatically different.

That said, science is much better now so the "risks" associated with the vaccine are much less too.

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3 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

But what about the OTHER LIFE?  Yeah, exactly.  Externalities can be inconvenient. 

But if Bob chooses to have a vaccine and Kate doesn't is there really an externality involved?

Does Kate not getting vaccinated harm Bob?

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7 minutes ago, Tharsheblows said:

Except that smallpox used to kill almost 30% of the people who caught it, many of whom were children and young adults and COVID kills about .5% (or less) of the people who catch it and almost none of the fatalities are children and young adults...so the numbers are dramatically different.

That said, science is much better now to the "risks" associated with the vaccine are much less too.

Smallpox was a huge psychological issue because of facial scarring. Sounds dumb but humans are driven by vanity. NOBODY wanted to risk smallpox, it made you ugly... killing you might actually be preferable.

The problem with risk assessment is two fold IMHO.... one, many people who are smart about many things are still bad at math, or more likely (for the truly smart ones) they don't apply math. They jump to a conclusion and then exert effort justifying it.

Is the risk of the vaccine comparable to the risk of the disease? Obviously not, by a HUGE margin. So how come more people are not convinced by simple rational demonstrations of this?

They think there is a comparison of getting vaccinated versus not getting vaccinated, instead of thinking of it in terms of getting vaccinated versus catching the disease.

- DSK

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