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When offered the Vaccine, will you take it?


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The private sector has embarked on a major campaign to reassure the public that they will not release a vaccine until they are confident it is safe and effective. We can expect a joint statement from

As many of you know I am right of center politically.  I dont think vaccines are a political issue or at least they should not be.  My family are all vaccinated. I tried to think of how I should

You are such a bag of shit wrapped in a thin veneer of pseudo self esteem. You are a walking around killer of strangers free riding on those who got vaccinated. Sponger.

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Back on the subject.

This is obvious when one thinks about it.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-08/covid-vaccine-young-men-needed-to-end-lockdowns/100354664

Despite concerns that women would be the most reticent to receive a vaccine based on early surveying, the data on vaccination rates has taken an unexpected turn.

One group is lagging when it comes to getting their shot: young men.

In Australia, fewer men have been vaccinated in all age groups until you reach the 60- and 70-year-olds. In the US, it's a similar story, with fewer men than women lining up to get the jab.

For 20–24-year-olds, 10.5 per cent of men have been received their first dose, compared to 17.1 per cent of women. The gap is more than 5 percentage points for 25-29 year olds (14.1 per cent compared to 19.5 per cen). The gap is around three percentage points for both the 30-34 and 35-39 age brackets.

Even for 40- to 45-year-olds – the youngest cohort who can receive Pfizer – 40.5 per cent of men are vaccinated compared to 45 per cent of women.

If we are to succeed in overcoming the Delta variant, we need to pay close attention the variation in vaccine uptake within particular groups.

It's clear that viewing the population as a single homogenous group that can be targeted with the same incentives, advertisements and messaging is short-sighted.

For years people have put young guys into the too-hard basket when it comes to health promotion. But when it comes to the COVID vaccine, the gender gap in uptake needs our attention.

Despite being significantly more likely to be hospitalised and die by COVID than women, some men have lead efforts against what they see as punitive health measures.  

Some studies had shown men are also more reluctant than women to wear masks. For other men, their invincibility in the face of COVID has come crashing down.

We've seen harrowing videos of young fathers in the US on ventilators speaking to reporters about how they thought they could "beat the virus", going to COVID parties as if this were chickenpox, only to be faced with their own mortality.

The fear campaigns created by the Australian Government with a young woman struggling to breathe in hospital will likely fall on deaf ears among this group.

Some young guys that I work with have shared with me that they often see these ads as a challenge to overcome. These guys are socialised to eat risk for breakfast, to be competitive and to overestimate their confidence in handling tough situations.

It's about time we read the room. 

Young men are reliably the least likely to seek help for both mental or physical health concerns and if they do, many health practitioners will tell you it can be a headache getting them to engage in treatment. 

I've become accustomed to an hour-long therapy session punctured with intermittent grunts and mono-syllabic responses from many young guys I see, who are supposedly there for their own self-betterment.

What I realised quite early on in my work with this group was that I was pushing my own agenda, one many young guys just don’t buy

We need a stronger message

We need to break this pattern by asking young guys what works for them.

We can't create a vaccine rollout that waits for them to come to us, we need to go to where they are, speak their language, offer information in a way that makes sense to them, excites them, humour them and most importantly, doesn’t talk down to them.

First on the list should be making sure both men and women don’t have to scour vaccine booking sites for an appointment, or drop everything on a workday if they can secure a slot.

We've got some hurdles to jump. Women are far more comfortable navigating the health system, they do it from an early age and are primed to prevent illness, from pap smears to more frequent sunscreen application and dental check-ups.

Men, on the other hand, are well-trained to respond only when crisis looms. With well-targeted messaging we can appeal to all groups to get jabs in arms.

The immunologists have done their part in making sure these vaccines are safe. Now, to get them into young men's arms we need to go to those who engage men for a living.

Talk to those who talk to young men

Your everyday health messaging, those COVID-safe ads littering our Olympic coverage, miss the mark for many men. I am yet to see any targeted efforts to engage this critical group.

Young guys need better role modelling from people they trust and respect, who look and sound like them.

The advertising agencies that sell them sneakers, the gaming influencers they watch for hours on streaming platform Twitch, the footballers, school captains and skaters need to be our frontline.

If drawing on togetherness and camaraderie is the tactic of choice here, we need to find the true community leaders for these guys to hear from that can make clear what they have to gain from a vaccine.

Dr Zac Seidler is a clinical psychologist and men's health expert.

 

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1 hour ago, Melibob said:

Back on the subject.

This is obvious when one thinks about it.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-08/covid-vaccine-young-men-needed-to-end-lockdowns/100354664

Despite concerns that women would be the most reticent to receive a vaccine based on early surveying, the data on vaccination rates has taken an unexpected turn.

One group is lagging when it comes to getting their shot: young men.

In Australia, fewer men have been vaccinated in all age groups until you reach the 60- and 70-year-olds. In the US, it's a similar story, with fewer men than women lining up to get the jab.

For 20–24-year-olds, 10.5 per cent of men have been received their first dose, compared to 17.1 per cent of women. The gap is more than 5 percentage points for 25-29 year olds (14.1 per cent compared to 19.5 per cen). The gap is around three percentage points for both the 30-34 and 35-39 age brackets.

Even for 40- to 45-year-olds – the youngest cohort who can receive Pfizer – 40.5 per cent of men are vaccinated compared to 45 per cent of women.

If we are to succeed in overcoming the Delta variant, we need to pay close attention the variation in vaccine uptake within particular groups.

It's clear that viewing the population as a single homogenous group that can be targeted with the same incentives, advertisements and messaging is short-sighted.

For years people have put young guys into the too-hard basket when it comes to health promotion. But when it comes to the COVID vaccine, the gender gap in uptake needs our attention.

Despite being significantly more likely to be hospitalised and die by COVID than women, some men have lead efforts against what they see as punitive health measures.  

Some studies had shown men are also more reluctant than women to wear masks. For other men, their invincibility in the face of COVID has come crashing down.

We've seen harrowing videos of young fathers in the US on ventilators speaking to reporters about how they thought they could "beat the virus", going to COVID parties as if this were chickenpox, only to be faced with their own mortality.

The fear campaigns created by the Australian Government with a young woman struggling to breathe in hospital will likely fall on deaf ears among this group.

Some young guys that I work with have shared with me that they often see these ads as a challenge to overcome. These guys are socialised to eat risk for breakfast, to be competitive and to overestimate their confidence in handling tough situations.

It's about time we read the room. 

Young men are reliably the least likely to seek help for both mental or physical health concerns and if they do, many health practitioners will tell you it can be a headache getting them to engage in treatment. 

I've become accustomed to an hour-long therapy session punctured with intermittent grunts and mono-syllabic responses from many young guys I see, who are supposedly there for their own self-betterment.

What I realised quite early on in my work with this group was that I was pushing my own agenda, one many young guys just don’t buy

We need a stronger message

We need to break this pattern by asking young guys what works for them.

We can't create a vaccine rollout that waits for them to come to us, we need to go to where they are, speak their language, offer information in a way that makes sense to them, excites them, humour them and most importantly, doesn’t talk down to them.

First on the list should be making sure both men and women don’t have to scour vaccine booking sites for an appointment, or drop everything on a workday if they can secure a slot.

We've got some hurdles to jump. Women are far more comfortable navigating the health system, they do it from an early age and are primed to prevent illness, from pap smears to more frequent sunscreen application and dental check-ups.

Men, on the other hand, are well-trained to respond only when crisis looms. With well-targeted messaging we can appeal to all groups to get jabs in arms.

The immunologists have done their part in making sure these vaccines are safe. Now, to get them into young men's arms we need to go to those who engage men for a living.

Talk to those who talk to young men

Your everyday health messaging, those COVID-safe ads littering our Olympic coverage, miss the mark for many men. I am yet to see any targeted efforts to engage this critical group.

Young guys need better role modelling from people they trust and respect, who look and sound like them.

The advertising agencies that sell them sneakers, the gaming influencers they watch for hours on streaming platform Twitch, the footballers, school captains and skaters need to be our frontline.

If drawing on togetherness and camaraderie is the tactic of choice here, we need to find the true community leaders for these guys to hear from that can make clear what they have to gain from a vaccine.

Dr Zac Seidler is a clinical psychologist and men's health expert.

 

How do you educate someone who already knows everything?

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7 hours ago, Wess said:

LOL, this place is such a fun diversion from real life. 

Back in the real world;

New cases in the USA ht 130,000 on Friday.....up from under 10,000 per day in June.

This is higher than the first and second waves in the Spring and Summer of 2020.  The UK had less time to prepare for Delta and less vaccines. We knew it was coming and had all the vaccine doses we could possibly need. History will be critical. We could have avoided much of the Delta variant.

Since approximately half of the population is vaccinated, and the vaccines are supposedly 90% effective we would expect to see approx 118,000 of the 130,000 to be unvaccinated. 

For those who say........."But the mortality rate is down" .....you are taking some consolation in the fact that when the case rate increases by a factor of 10 the number of deaths rate might only increase by 3-5x.   500-750-1,000 deaths per day.......is still an appalling number for something that could be prevented at very low cost.   The continued impact on society as the need for masks and WFH continues towards a third year and the repercussions for those suffering from long-covid is unnecessary.

 

 

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2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

For those who say........."But the mortality rate is down" .....you are taking some consolation in the fact that when the case rate increases by a factor of 10 the number of deaths rate might only increase by 3-5x.   500-750-1,000 deaths per day.......is still an appalling number for something that could be prevented at very low cost.

I respect you passion for doing the right thing but you don't understand the "real world"

If you want the major portion of the population to do something you need to have a credible spokesman that the population respects and is giving the best scientific advice.

It does not matter if your spokesman has a background in politics. medicine. film star or sports star, if the population doesn't believe him it wont work.

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2 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

I respect you passion for doing the right thing but you don't understand the "real world"

If you want the major portion of the population to do something you need to have a credible spokesman that the population respects and is giving the best scientific advice.

It does not matter if your spokesman has a background in politics. medicine. film star or sports star, if the population doesn't believe him it wont work.

In a country of almost 350 million, with a significant percentage of that population rejecting even the most basic aspects of science, such a person does not exist.

That might work in an island nation  of five million, but not in the US, where political divides are so stark.

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1 hour ago, accnick said:

In a country of almost 350 million, with a significant percentage of that population rejecting even the most basic aspects of science, such a person does not exist.

That might work in an island nation  of five million, but not in the US, where political divides are so stark.

Survey says a large number of US people think tracking chips are in the vaccine.  Coincidence has it they are mainly of one political persuasion. That's real hard to rebut.  

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5 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

I respect you passion for doing the right thing but you don't understand the "real world"

If you want the major portion of the population to do something you need to have a credible spokesman that the population respects and is giving the best scientific advice.

It does not matter if your spokesman has a background in politics. medicine. film star or sports star, if the population doesn't believe him it wont work.

I live in the real world, seeing real patients 5, 6 and sometimes even 7 days a week.

We have a very diverse population in the US without a universally respected and trusted spokesperson. So we almost certainly need more than one.

In our history, we have united behind one leader from time to time but sadly, at this time in our history we are politically divided (and that part is fine.....democracies thrive on political differences) and for some reason a health challenge with absolutely no political ramifications ( Covid kills both Democrats and Republicans )....has been portrayed as a political divide. This is incredibly unhelpful and counter -productive.

I notice in the UK that Lewis Hamilton, an athlete in incredibly good physical condition has acknowledged that he is suffering from long covid and fighting fatigue. He is universally admired and I suspect makes a great spokesperson. Nobody fits that bill yet in the USA.

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

Survey says a large number of US people think tracking chips are in the vaccine.  Coincidence has it they are mainly of one political persuasion. That's real hard to rebut.  

I suspect it is quite a small number. I will look at the survey if you provide link but Im skeptical.   I do meet a number of unvaccinated people. In my admittedly small and unscientific sample:

1.  The #1 reason for not getting vaccinated is that they are scared of an adverse side effect.   These range from: -

I want more children and the vaccine makes women infertile

It can change my DNA

I have lupus so I am imuno compromised and the vaccine is risky as I might have an attack

It will give me blood clots

It increases the risk of heart attack.

Some people catch covid from the vaccine.

2. There is a noticeable socio-economic factor.  The less well off, less educated are the ones not getting vaccinated.  This is noticeable in town by town statistics.

3. There is a racial factor.

4, The political persuasion is the opposite of what you see where you live.

 

 

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2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

I suspect it is quite a small number. I will look at the survey if you provide link but Im skeptical.   I do meet a number of unvaccinated people. In my admittedly small and unscientific sample:

1.  The #1 reason for not getting vaccinated is that they are scared of an adverse side effect.   These range from: -

I want more children and the vaccine makes women infertile

It can change my DNA

I have lupus so I am imuno compromised and the vaccine is risky as I might have an attack

It will give me blood clots

It increases the risk of heart attack.

Some people catch covid from the vaccine.

2. There is a noticeable socio-economic factor.  The less well off, less educated are the ones not getting vaccinated.  This is noticeable in town by town statistics.

3. There is a racial factor.

4, The political persuasion is the opposite of what you see where you live.

Maybe New Zealand benefitted by achieving elimination of the virus BEFORE the vaccinations were available, so the spokesperson had fewer competing theories to contend with.  There is a small number of anti-vacs in New Zealand but it is too soon to say if they will have a effect on the vaccination program.

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21 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

Maybe New Zealand benefitted by achieving elimination of the virus BEFORE the vaccinations were available, so the spokesperson had fewer competing theories to contend with.  There is a small number of anti-vacs in New Zealand but it is too soon to say if they will have a effect on the vaccination program.

I wish you the best of luck.

 

It could work either way.  The best way is that the NZ citizenry trust their government and thus far their trust has been well placed so they will all get vaccinated and frankly be the outstanding success story of the pandemic

The worst way is that everyone is complacent because they havent had a pandemic and havent experienced firsthand the trauma of thousands dying on ventilators, so they dont rush for the vaccine.......and languidly assuming that the island borders can keep the virus at bay indefinitely the vaccine take up is slow.....and then the delta variant sneaks ashore from an overseas visitor that the tests missed and suddenly you have an out of control community spread tearing through a population with no immunity.

I believe the first outcome is more likely. Complacency is your enemy though.

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3 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

I suspect it is quite a small number. I will look at the survey if you provide link but Im skeptical.   

 

 

Um, not that small

https://www.newsweek.com/survey-shows-majority-unvaccinated-americans-believe-microchips-are-vaccines-1611134

Also people refusing to be vaccinated "feel" the virus affects vaccinated and unvaccinated people the same, they don't believe reports about unvaccinated being the bulk of hospitalized or dead.

Facts don't change feelings. The cognitively flawed will try to kill usxall.

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12 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Back in the real world;

New cases in the USA ht 130,000 on Friday.....up from under 10,000 per day in June.

This is higher than the first and second waves in the Spring and Summer of 2020.  The UK had less time to prepare for Delta and less vaccines. We knew it was coming and had all the vaccine doses we could possibly need. History will be critical. We could have avoided much of the Delta variant.

Since approximately half of the population is vaccinated, and the vaccines are supposedly 90% effective we would expect to see approx 118,000 of the 130,000 to be unvaccinated. 

For those who say........."But the mortality rate is down" .....you are taking some consolation in the fact that when the case rate increases by a factor of 10 the number of deaths rate might only increase by 3-5x.   500-750-1,000 deaths per day.......is still an appalling number for something that could be prevented at very low cost.   The continued impact on society as the need for masks and WFH continues towards a third year and the repercussions for those suffering from long-covid is unnecessary.

 

 

There's also the health and financial effect of long Covid on the uninsured or underinsured and ultimately the economy.

While hospitals may be treating the above in the first phase of this illness, what happens to all those millions and millions with long covid once they are discharged? 

 

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4 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

I wish you the best of luck.

 

It could work either way.  The best way is that the NZ citizenry trust their government and thus far their trust has been well placed so they will all get vaccinated and frankly be the outstanding success story of the pandemic

The worst way is that everyone is complacent because they havent had a pandemic and havent experienced firsthand the trauma of thousands dying on ventilators, so they dont rush for the vaccine.......and languidly assuming that the island borders can keep the virus at bay indefinitely the vaccine take up is slow.....and then the delta variant sneaks ashore from an overseas visitor that the tests missed and suddenly you have an out of control community spread tearing through a population with no immunity.

I believe the first outcome is more likely. Complacency is your enemy though.

"and then the delta variant sneaks ashore from an overseas visitor that the tests missed and suddenly you have an out of control community spread tearing through a population with no immunity."

We haven't had an infected visitor cross the border for about a year, the border controls seem to be working using modified hotels, the main threat is from border workers who are supposed to be 100% vaccinated now and waterside workers in contact with the shipping.  It seems that some waterside workers are listening to the wrong advise and resisting the jab, they will lose their jobs if they don't cooperate.

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So, this is the gist of our sock returns:

Dr. Dan Stock, a McCordsville resident and family medicine physician, said the measures Mt. Vernon has implemented and is considering adding are not useful. He added Indiana Department of Health and CDC recommendations are “contrary to the rules of science.”

Coronavirus and other respiratory virus particles are small enough to go through masks, Stock continued, adding vaccines will not be effective against COVID-19. He noted the virus is on the rise in the middle of summer, a time when respiratory viral syndromes are typically at their lowest. Stock also pointed to the COVID-19 outbreak last month in Provincetown, Massachusetts, the majority of which included vaccinated individuals.

Vaccines don’t prevent infection, just symptoms, Stock said.

“So you cannot stop spread, you cannot make these numbers that you’ve planned on get better by doing any of the things that you’re doing,” he said. “Because that is the nature of viral respiratory pathogens. And you can’t prevent it with a vaccine because they don’t do the very thing you’re wanting them to do. And you will be chasing this through the remainder of your life until you recognize the Centers for Disease Control and the Indiana State Board of Health are giving you very bad scientific guidance.”

Yeah, so share if you dare to promote Covidiots everywhere.

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^If you recognize it's bad guidance what does the "family doctor" recommend?  Bleach? Prepaid funerals? 

Actually vaccinated with no symptoms sounds better than either of those. And the unvaccinated have bleach and Doc Stock...

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3 hours ago, d'ranger said:

So, this is the gist of our sock returns:

Dr. Dan Stock, a McCordsville resident and family medicine physician, said the measures Mt. Vernon has implemented and is considering adding are not useful. He added Indiana Department of Health and CDC recommendations are “contrary to the rules of science.”

Coronavirus and other respiratory virus particles are small enough to go through masks, Stock continued, adding vaccines will not be effective against COVID-19. He noted the virus is on the rise in the middle of summer, a time when respiratory viral syndromes are typically at their lowest. Stock also pointed to the COVID-19 outbreak last month in Provincetown, Massachusetts, the majority of which included vaccinated individuals.

Vaccines don’t prevent infection, just symptoms, Stock said.

“So you cannot stop spread, you cannot make these numbers that you’ve planned on get better by doing any of the things that you’re doing,” he said. “Because that is the nature of viral respiratory pathogens. And you can’t prevent it with a vaccine because they don’t do the very thing you’re wanting them to do. And you will be chasing this through the remainder of your life until you recognize the Centers for Disease Control and the Indiana State Board of Health are giving you very bad scientific guidance.”

Yeah, so share if you dare to promote Covidiots everywhere.

So no symptoms is bad?

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Florida is the Covid epicenter.

Cases hit at an all time high of 28,000 today. Deaths rose back up to a daily rate of 120.

The previous high was the so-called peak on January 1st of 21,000.

 

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3 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

So no symptoms is bad?

It is the main reason this spread so rapidly without being detected. Of course the good family doctor is stating that vaccines don't prevent infection and masks don't work.  Hard to believe all those people just sat there and listened politely.  I would have said one word after standing up and saying

BULLSHIT

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3 hours ago, d'ranger said:

It is the main reason this spread so rapidly without being detected. Of course the good family doctor is stating that vaccines don't prevent infection and masks don't work.  Hard to believe all those people just sat there and listened politely.  I would have said one word after standing up and saying

BULLSHIT

Except vaccines don't prevent infection.

At you know what? That doesn't matter.

 

The vaccines do prevent serious sickness and death. And that really does matter!

 

As for masks, yeah, he misses there as well. A mask for covid is like a condom for chlamydia or gonorrhea.

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9 hours ago, d'ranger said:

It is the main reason this spread so rapidly without being detected. Of course the good family doctor is stating that vaccines don't prevent infection and masks don't work.  Hard to believe all those people just sat there and listened politely.  I would have said one word after standing up and saying

BULLSHIT

And they applauded the Covidiot Dr as well. 

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10 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Except vaccines don't prevent infection. But they do reduce the number of infections. The number of vaccinated people who tested positive in the phase 3 trials was significantly less than the number of unvaccinated people who tested positive

At you know what? That doesn't matter.

 

The vaccines do prevent serious sickness and death. And that really does matter! We unfortunately do have break through deaths where vaccinated patients have died from covid but the number is negligible compared to unvaccinated deaths .  As at 2nd August 25 vaccinated patients have dies of covid in OK.  OK is one of the few states that shares that data. The mRNA data seems to be the most effective at preventing hospitalization and mortality vs JnJ.

 

As for masks, yeah, he misses there as well. A mask for covid is like a condom for chlamydia or gonorrhea.

The bottom line is that the vaccines are not bullet proof. They significantly improve your immunity but do not guarantee it.  When there is a wave such as the Delta surge among a population that is only prtially vaccinated, it is not only the in-vaxx who will suffer. Unfortunately the sheer law of numbers will cause some vaccinated mortality.  If 10 vaccinated people die in a month when the case load in the US is 10,000 per day, then when it reaches 200,000 per day, it is 200 that will die.

The population is gradually getting immune thru a combination of vaxx and infection. It is not the right way to do it......but Delta might be the final wave of 2021.

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I much prefer my odds of NOT getting infected as a vaxxed person.  Moderna btw seems to have promising data im that regard. Not yet peer reviewed trial data in US.  

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45 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

I much prefer my odds of NOT getting infected as a vaxxed person.  Moderna btw seems to have promising data im that regard. Not yet peer reviewed trial data in US.  

Correct the vaccine helps in two ways:

1. It reduces the odds of getting infected.   The phase 3 trial data demonstrated that.   However it seems likely the odds of getting infected have increased because (i) The Delta variant is more infectious.  Your odds are still measurably better than an un-vaxx  (ii) Due to large number of un-vaxx around, there are a lot of hosts shedding the virus in this 4th wave, more than we expected at this time.

2. If you do get infected it massively reduces the probability of getting hospitalized.  A 35 year old unvaxxed has worse odds than a 60 year old vaxxed.

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20 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Do you people understand how vaccines works?

I mean, you understand that
they don't stop infection?

 

In order to understand how vaccines work, first you have to understand how the virus works

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John Coffin wrote this eloquently simplification of outcomes to the evolution and arrival of a new virus...pre-covid

Over long periods of evolution, you will have a virus that comes into a host—a species—and spreads. One of three things can then happen.

One is that the virus can just die out for some reason—everybody can get immune, so the virus can no longer find a host, and it dies out.

The second is that the host can die out. The virus can cause a pandemic that kills off a species; We know that’s happened many times in evolutionary history, although we don’t have very much of a record of it.

The third is that the virus and host can co-evolve, so the virus doesn’t cause enough disease to wipe out the host, but it’s still able to replicate. Some viruses that we have around with us—like the common cold virus—are like that. They’ll cause a mild disease, you recover, and the virus survives, and everybody goes about their business.

But when the virus finds itself in a new host—such as a new species—that adaptation hasn’t occurred,  then it might be very dangerous for that host.

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10 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

In order to understand how vaccines work, first you have to understand how the virus works

How about we understand that a vaccine primes the immune system to respond quickly to an infection?

Without an infection, there's nothing for the immune system to respond to, so any vaccine is irrelevant.

 

Being vaccinated does not prevent infection!

Being vaccinated does improve the immune system's response and ideally prevent any infection from progressing to disease!

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On 8/8/2021 at 1:16 PM, Melibob said:

Back on the subject.

This is obvious when one thinks about it.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-08/covid-vaccine-young-men-needed-to-end-lockdowns/100354664

Despite concerns that women would be the most reticent to receive a vaccine based on early surveying, the data on vaccination rates has taken an unexpected turn.

One group is lagging when it comes to getting their shot: young men.

In Australia, fewer men have been vaccinated in all age groups until you reach the 60- and 70-year-olds. In the US, it's a similar story, with fewer men than women lining up to get the jab.

For 20–24-year-olds, 10.5 per cent of men have been received their first dose, compared to 17.1 per cent of women. The gap is more than 5 percentage points for 25-29 year olds (14.1 per cent compared to 19.5 per cen). The gap is around three percentage points for both the 30-34 and 35-39 age brackets.

Even for 40- to 45-year-olds – the youngest cohort who can receive Pfizer – 40.5 per cent of men are vaccinated compared to 45 per cent of women.

If we are to succeed in overcoming the Delta variant, we need to pay close attention the variation in vaccine uptake within particular groups.

It's clear that viewing the population as a single homogenous group that can be targeted with the same incentives, advertisements and messaging is short-sighted.

For years people have put young guys into the too-hard basket when it comes to health promotion. But when it comes to the COVID vaccine, the gender gap in uptake needs our attention.

Despite being significantly more likely to be hospitalised and die by COVID than women, some men have lead efforts against what they see as punitive health measures.  

Some studies had shown men are also more reluctant than women to wear masks. For other men, their invincibility in the face of COVID has come crashing down.

We've seen harrowing videos of young fathers in the US on ventilators speaking to reporters about how they thought they could "beat the virus", going to COVID parties as if this were chickenpox, only to be faced with their own mortality.

The fear campaigns created by the Australian Government with a young woman struggling to breathe in hospital will likely fall on deaf ears among this group.

Some young guys that I work with have shared with me that they often see these ads as a challenge to overcome. These guys are socialised to eat risk for breakfast, to be competitive and to overestimate their confidence in handling tough situations.

It's about time we read the room. 

Young men are reliably the least likely to seek help for both mental or physical health concerns and if they do, many health practitioners will tell you it can be a headache getting them to engage in treatment. 

I've become accustomed to an hour-long therapy session punctured with intermittent grunts and mono-syllabic responses from many young guys I see, who are supposedly there for their own self-betterment.

What I realised quite early on in my work with this group was that I was pushing my own agenda, one many young guys just don’t buy

We need a stronger message

We need to break this pattern by asking young guys what works for them.

We can't create a vaccine rollout that waits for them to come to us, we need to go to where they are, speak their language, offer information in a way that makes sense to them, excites them, humour them and most importantly, doesn’t talk down to them.

First on the list should be making sure both men and women don’t have to scour vaccine booking sites for an appointment, or drop everything on a workday if they can secure a slot.

We've got some hurdles to jump. Women are far more comfortable navigating the health system, they do it from an early age and are primed to prevent illness, from pap smears to more frequent sunscreen application and dental check-ups.

Men, on the other hand, are well-trained to respond only when crisis looms. With well-targeted messaging we can appeal to all groups to get jabs in arms.

The immunologists have done their part in making sure these vaccines are safe. Now, to get them into young men's arms we need to go to those who engage men for a living.

Talk to those who talk to young men

Your everyday health messaging, those COVID-safe ads littering our Olympic coverage, miss the mark for many men. I am yet to see any targeted efforts to engage this critical group.

Young guys need better role modelling from people they trust and respect, who look and sound like them.

The advertising agencies that sell them sneakers, the gaming influencers they watch for hours on streaming platform Twitch, the footballers, school captains and skaters need to be our frontline.

If drawing on togetherness and camaraderie is the tactic of choice here, we need to find the true community leaders for these guys to hear from that can make clear what they have to gain from a vaccine.

Dr Zac Seidler is a clinical psychologist and men's health expert.

 

There is a good percentage of young men who will get vaccinated, I'm 30, got my pfizer shot yesterday and most friends my age booked in straight away and have either been jabbed last week or are due next week.

The vast majority of people my age, male especially, who aren't vaxed, is because they can't. I suspect the large deviation between men and women my age being vaxed is the sheer volume of women who work in fields like nursing who despite not being age eligible are due to their work.

The usual idiots who are unaware of their unintelligence are not going to get it, that's on them. They aren't exactly high risk anyway.

Most of then look at the adverts targeted at getting a message through to them as it being a crock of shit. 

One bloke showed me an ad talking about how "mRNA vaccines have been in the works for decades" and he just scoffed and said "hah, they expect us to believe that? Covids not even been around for 2 years".

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You are possibly correct about young men not being as able to access the vax as young women.

Though my personal observation among the number of under 30's I know (quite a number between my kids and work), is that the young men, though not at all anti vax or "hesitant" are a lot more casual about actively seeking the fastest option whereas the young women will hunt around.

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4 minutes ago, Melibob said:

You are possibly correct about young men not being as able to access the vax as young women.

Young women in certain work areas.

My daughters have not been vaccinated due to refusal up to recently to make AZ available to their age cohort - early 30's - and insufficient Pfizer. They were on work from home, both are University employees. It wasn't due to any anti-vax sentiment, they've both worked in med labs in the past and had vaccines for hep A, B & C. It was simply that they couldn't get vaccinated because AZ wasn't released for them and sufficient Pfizer wasn't available. One of them had her first Pfizer shot today, the other one gets hers next week.

So I'm not flaming those in the 20's to 50's too much for not getting vaxed in the past as it was difficult to do - and that's on the States AND Feds.

Going forward, it's 100% on people who choose not to. And we'll see how the numbers go over the next couple of months.

FKT

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I'm not flaming them either. Young people are rolling up their sleeves in huge numbers now they can get a booking or walk in for AZ.

I just thought the article was interesting from a marketing POV. Unless all young men have suddenly become aware of their mortality :D

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7385308/jet-ski-death-in-tas-entirely-avoidable/#:~:text=Ethan James&text=a life jacket.-,A father who drowned in a jet-ski accident in,was thrown into the water.&text=December 29%2C 2019.-,He did not hold a jet ski licence and was,on the day he died. 

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24 minutes ago, Melibob said:

I'm not flaming them either. Young people are rolling up their sleeves in huge numbers now they can get a booking or walk in for AZ.

I just thought the article was interesting from a marketing POV. Unless all young men have suddenly become aware of their mortality :D

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7385308/jet-ski-death-in-tas-entirely-avoidable/#:~:text=Ethan James&text=a life jacket.-,A father who drowned in a jet-ski accident in,was thrown into the water.&text=December 29%2C 2019.-,He did not hold a jet ski licence and was,on the day he died. 

All jet ski accidents and deaths are completely preventable. There hasn't been one in Sydney Harbour for well over 20 years.

FKT

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59 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Young women in certain work areas.

My daughters have not been vaccinated due to refusal up to recently to make AZ available to their age cohort - early 30's - and insufficient Pfizer. They were on work from home, both are University employees. It wasn't due to any anti-vax sentiment, they've both worked in med labs in the past and had vaccines for hep A, B & C. It was simply that they couldn't get vaccinated because AZ wasn't released for them and sufficient Pfizer wasn't available. One of them had her first Pfizer shot today, the other one gets hers next week.

So I'm not flaming those in the 20's to 50's too much for not getting vaxed in the past as it was difficult to do - and that's on the States AND Feds.

Going forward, it's 100% on people who choose not to. And we'll see how the numbers go over the next couple of months.

FKT

May be a cartoon of text

While the anti-vaxers be like:

Am I disabled? - Posts | Facebook

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On 8/8/2021 at 7:39 AM, Terry Hollis said:

I respect you passion for doing the right thing but you don't understand the "real world"

If you want the major portion of the population to do something you need to have a credible spokesman that the population respects and is giving the best scientific advice.

It does not matter if your spokesman has a background in politics. medicine. film star or sports star, if the population doesn't believe him it wont work.

Unfortunately, for that argument, here in the states there has been a well funded and thought out movement since 1989 to discredit expertise.  So it’s down to trust, and how many folks here trust Trump & Abbott & DeSantis etc etc? And that trust has in turn turned into a self sustaining Einsteinian universe- for example most MAGATS know that Trump had the vaccine, but they don’t care.  For ~ 50% of the population it’s turned into an emotional thrill.  Arguing reproducible biological results vs emotional jag is impossible.  

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9 hours ago, Melibob said:

You are possibly correct about young men not being as able to access the vax as young women.

Though my personal observation among the number of under 30's I know (quite a number between my kids and work), is that the young men, though not at all anti vax or "hesitant" are a lot more casual about actively seeking the fastest option whereas the young women will hunt around.

An illustration as to why women live longer than men. 

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9 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

All jet ski accidents and deaths are completely preventable. There hasn't been one in Sydney Harbour for well over 20 years.

FKT

The powers that be outlawed them here about the same time.  Now even the outlaws don’t have jetskis.

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On 7/23/2021 at 6:17 PM, Wess said:

There is something fundamentally evil about those who would take away the freedoms of others and force their version of medicine upon and into them.

No shirt, no shoes, no service. 

No license, no drive.

No passport, no travel

Not 17, no fuck

No polio, mumps, measles, pertussis, diptheria, tetanus, typhoid vaccines, no school.

Getting the picture?

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Good grief. Must be another Australian  sheeple pussy.  So glad you nutters have no impact on my real life.

Isn’t it about time for you to run out  for your 5th booster shot Left? Hurry now before it gets you!

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7 hours ago, Amati said:

Unfortunately, for that argument, here in the states there has been a well funded and thought out movement since 1989 to discredit expertise.  So it’s down to trust, and how many folks here trust Trump & Abbott & DeSantis etc etc? And that trust has in turn turned into a self sustaining Einsteinian universe- for example most MAGATS know that Trump had the vaccine, but they don’t care.  For ~ 50% of the population it’s turned into an emotional thrill.  Arguing reproducible biological results vs emotional jag is impossible.  

You are saying the same thing as me, just using different words, there is no leadership in the USA that the people can follow as if they were one. I feel sorry for the USA.

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Yep there are 10 banksy's along 50 miles of coast here, there's even bus tours to visit them...

Meanwhile 90% of the UK adult population have had 1 dose, 76% of the adult population have had two doses.

Professional Football matches with almost full crowds started yesterday, it will be interesting to see what happens to the figures in two weeks. Undoubtedly the infection rate will increase, but hopefully not too much of an increase in serious cases.

An oddity occurred over the last few weeks, due to an increase in the numbers to a high percentage of infections in a nearby by area, they did "surge testing" that is they went door to door testing as many people as possible. Whereupon the percentage level of the population showing infections dropped back to a minor amount.

. So the estimates of numbers of infected per 100,000 are over inflated, they've been working it out from the percentage of those tested and assuming that's correct through out the population.

Whereas mostly the infected are those being tested normally, the uninfected aren't.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, The Q said:

Yep there are 10 banksy's along 50 miles of coast here, there's even bus tours to visit them...

Meanwhile 90% of the UK adult population have had 1 dose, 76% of the adult population have had two doses.

Professional Football matches with almost full crowds started yesterday, it will be interesting to see what happens to the figures in two weeks. Undoubtedly the infection rate will increase, but hopefully not too much of an increase in serious cases.

An oddity occurred over the last few weeks, due to an increase in the numbers to a high percentage of infections in a nearby by area, they did "surge testing" that is they went door to door testing as many people as possible. Whereupon the percentage level of the population showing infections dropped back to a minor amount.

. So the estimates of numbers of infected per 100,000 are over inflated, they've been working it out from the percentage of those tested and assuming that's correct through out the population.

Whereas mostly the infected are those being tested normally, the uninfected aren't.

 

 

Check out Iceland. Living experiment with over 80% vaccinated and Delta rampant. Looks promising. well as promising as it can.

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On 7/24/2021 at 11:17 AM, Wess said:

There is something fundamentally evil about those who would take away the freedoms of others and force their version of medicine upon and into them.

WessGrimReaper.png.0a37450f89e4d16172e3c979a5794751.png

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18 minutes ago, random. said:

WessGrimReaper.png.0a37450f89e4d16172e3c979a5794751.png

Hmm I though he was talking about medical experiments on Prisoners, First nations, and the mentally ill. That's fundamentally evil, not saving people from their own stupidity.

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8 minutes ago, Melibob said:

That's fundamentally evil, not saving people from their own stupidity.

Not really. If you've given them information, the sources of the information so they can check it if they wish, and they still insist that they're not going to do the sensible thing, what then?

FKT

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1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Not really. If you've given them information, the sources of the information so they can check it if they wish, and they still insist that they're not going to do the sensible thing, what then?

FKT

Wha

 

14 minutes ago, Melibob said:

Hmm I though he was talking about medical experiments on Prisoners, First nations, and the mentally ill. That is  fundamentally evil. Not saving people from their own stupidity.

 Edit Clumsy expression.

? I think you need to read Wess comment.

"There is something fundamentally evil about those who would take away the freedoms of others and force their version of medicine upon and into them."

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1 minute ago, Melibob said:

Wha

 

? I think you need to read Wess comment.

"There is something fundamentally evil about those who would take away the freedoms of others and force their version of medicine upon and into them."

Ah OK I try not to read Wess's posts. Once you've read a few, the rest are all going to be the same.

I've no problems *not* forcing treatment onto people, as long as they (or their survivors) don't bitch about the outcomes.

FKT

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Just now, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Ah OK I try not to read Wess's posts. Once you've read a few, the rest are all going to be the same.

I've no problems *not* forcing treatment onto people, as long as they (or their survivors) don't bitch about the outcomes.

FKT

Glady's has just locked down all of Regional NSW as of 5PM tonight.

 

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2 minutes ago, Melibob said:

Glady's has just locked down all of Regional NSW as of 5PM tonight.

 

Oh well I wasn't going anywhere until after I'd had shot #2 anyway. Which is the 20th.

I actually do have essential maintenance to do on my country NSW place (livestock watering system upgrades & checks, boosted PV system for the pumps) so I'll see what happens after next weekend. I can apply for an exemption permit, it's a 650 acre property so not exactly close to anyone else.

FKT

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6 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Oh well I wasn't going anywhere until after I'd had shot #2 anyway. Which is the 20th.

I actually do have essential maintenance to do on my country NSW place (livestock watering system upgrades & checks, boosted PV system for the pumps) so I'll see what happens after next weekend. I can apply for an exemption permit, it's a 650 acre property so not exactly close to anyone else.

FKT

who's been feeding the livestock for the last 7 weeks?:mellow:

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5 minutes ago, Melibob said:

who's been feeding the livestock for the last 7 weeks?:mellow:

Nobody - that's kind of the point. Grazing livestock can look after themselves for extended periods as long as there's feed and water. Plenty of feed as the property is never ever run at high stocking densities but water is always a concern. I don't like extended periods without someone checking on the water supply and pipes. Dams are OK but that's only part of it.

Might have to de-stock. We've done that before. Property has been in the family hands for decades.

FKT

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On 8/10/2021 at 10:52 PM, Ease the sheet. said:

How about we understand that a vaccine primes the immune system to respond quickly to an infection?

Without an infection, there's nothing for the immune system to respond to, so any vaccine is irrelevant.

 

Being vaccinated does not prevent infection!

Being vaccinated does improve the immune system's response and ideally prevent any infection from progressing to disease!

You are right in regard to the vaccine primes the immune system, with a response that already recognize the virus (or a component of the virus).

Lets back up though and think about how a virus works and what we mean by "infection".

A virus is not really a living organism—they can’t carry out on their own any of the functions that we consider to be connected with life. Most importantly they don’t contain the ability to replicate themselves without being inside of a cell.

A virus is just a piece of information. A virus is very simple with only a few genes that puts its information into a cell—a bacterial cell, a human cell, or animal cell . It contains instructions that tell a cell to make more of the virus itself.

Its business is to make more of itself—that’s its only job. Causing disease along the way may or may not be good for it actually—if it kills the cells too fast, that gives it less time to get out and go find a new host.

They have the information, but the information is dependent on having a cell to translate that information into the components that then become part of the virus particle (virion) that carries the information from one cell to the next.

The mRNA vaccine generates a response to the spike protein on CV19. The spike protein is the method by which the virus gets access to the human cell. The antibodies likely attack a large part of the virus before it gains access to the cell. . Thus you may have virus molecules in the respiratory system but your cells may not have been entered.  In that case you will have no symptoms.  If your cells are breached, you have been infected and the role of the antibodies is to hinder the virus from spreading from one cell to another. 

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6 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

You are right in regard to the vaccine primes the immune system, with a response that already recognize the virus (or a component of the virus).

Lets back up though and think about how a virus works and what we mean by "infection".

A virus is not really a living organism—they can’t carry out on their own any of the functions that we consider to be connected with life. Most importantly they don’t contain the ability to replicate themselves without being inside of a cell.

A virus is just a piece of information. A virus is very simple with only a few genes that puts its information into a cell—a bacterial cell, a human cell, or animal cell . It contains instructions that tell a cell to make more of the virus itself.

Its business is to make more of itself—that’s its only job. Causing disease along the way may or may not be good for it actually—if it kills the cells too fast, that gives it less time to get out and go find a new host.

They have the information, but the information is dependent on having a cell to translate that information into the components that then become part of the virus particle (virion) that carries the information from one cell to the next.

The mRNA vaccine generates a response to the spike protein on CV19. The spike protein is the method by which the virus gets access to the human cell. The antibodies likely attack a large part of the virus before it gains access to the cell. . Thus you may have virus molecules in the respiratory system but your cells may not have been entered.  In that case you will have no symptoms.  If your cells are breached, you have been infected and the role of the antibodies is to hinder the virus from spreading from one cell to another. 

We are quibbling over the word "infection", having the virus in the body vs having the virus replicating in the cells. Of course, both can lead to shedding.

 

You do raise an interesting point regarding how the current crop of vaccines are working re targeting spike proteins and limiting/stopping the virus from entering the cells and replicating.

Thanks, consider me better educated!

 

So, my question to you is "does that mean that the body has to rely on its own, normal non boosted immune response to clean up already infected cells?"

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I had an interesting conversation this morning with a colleague , and the colleague's long standing friend .

The friend is a successful and intelligent business owner who has not been vaccinated. He had previously given the reason as "medical"  but confessed over coffee that the background is that his father had become very ill due to an allergic reaction to medication 20+ years ago.  Ultimately friend (F) was generally easily worried about medication. He had decided to "wait and see" with the vaccination believing that his family is prone to allergic reaction.  He had set himself a 9 month wait time.

So he had previously expected that he would take a decision in September.  This deadline has been heightened by the Delta variant surge which he correctly interprets as clearly more infectious. Although he has run much of his business from home now, he still has a fair degree of interaction. 

So as we approach September, he scheduled coffee and Bagels  to chat to his doctor friend and I came along for the ride.

The most interesting observation I would make listening to the conversation is about how little credible, factual and up to date information is available to those who are genuinely interested in making a delayed decision to get vaccinated.

We have had hundreds of millions of people vaccinated, in a closely monitored program with a side affect reporting program. There should be more information available.

Here are some of the questions he was posing:

1. Where can I see any data on the number of verified side effects from the vaccine? 

2.  What is the revised overall effectiveness of the vaccines. Eg # of break through cases /number vaccinated compare to number of cases/ number of unvaccinated.

3.  Are people who formerly caught covid, also getting it a 2nd time?

He has concluded that he will get vaccinated in September, absent verified news of substantive adverse side effects. But he was frustrated by lack of hard facts coming out of CDC etc.

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On 8/14/2021 at 8:35 PM, Ease the sheet. said:

We are quibbling over the word "infection", having the virus in the body vs having the virus replicating in the cells. Of course, both can lead to shedding.

 

You do raise an interesting point regarding how the current crop of vaccines are working re targeting spike proteins and limiting/stopping the virus from entering the cells and replicating.

Thanks, consider me better educated!

 

So, my question to you is "does that mean that the body has to rely on its own, normal non boosted immune response to clean up already infected cells?"

Caveat:   This is a long way from my field of expertise.  Like all MDs, I started with a general medical education before specializing .  However I am not a virologist. 

However with that caveat aside

1. Distinction between virus in the body (respiratory system) vs in the cells.  The virus can only reproduce if it enters the cell.   Shedding in any volume depends on reproduction.

2. Can we shed without getting sick ?   yes absolutely.  There seems to be an level of infection when the patient is shedding but not infected sufficiently to have significant symptoms.

3.  If a cell is infected , it will release more virions and your boosted immune system will attack them and prevent the virus spreading to other cells.  Your own cells are of course always dying and being replaced.

In short, the vaccine appears to stop some people getting infected and in others constrains the level of infection.

If the vaccine stopped people getting infected then it would be a sterilizing vaccine and would speed up eradication of the disease.   It appears it is not a fully sterilizing vaccine so some vaccinated people are capable of spreading the disease but less so than unvaccinated people.  We dont know all the facts yet.

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2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

I had an interesting conversation this morning with a colleague , and the colleague's long standing friend .

The friend is a successful and intelligent business owner who has not been vaccinated. He had previously given the reason as "medical"  but confessed over coffee that the background is that his father had become very ill due to an allergic reaction to medication 20+ years ago.  Ultimately friend (F) was generally easily worried about medication. He had decided to "wait and see" with the vaccination believing that his family is prone to allergic reaction.  He had set himself a 9 month wait time.

So he had previously expected that he would take a decision in September.  This deadline has been heightened by the Delta variant surge which he correctly interprets as clearly more infectious. Although he has run much of his business from home now, he still has a fair degree of interaction. 

So as we approach September, he scheduled coffee and Bagels  to chat to his doctor friend and I came along for the ride.

The most interesting observation I would make listening to the conversation is about how little credible, factual and up to date information is available to those who are genuinely interested in making a delayed decision to get vaccinated.

We have had hundreds of millions of people vaccinated, in a closely monitored program with a side affect reporting program. There should be more information available.

Here are some of the questions he was posing:

1. Where can I see any data on the number of verified side effects from the vaccine? 

2.  What is the revised overall effectiveness of the vaccines. Eg # of break through cases /number vaccinated compare to number of cases/ number of unvaccinated.

3.  Are people who formerly caught covid, also getting it a 2nd time?

He has concluded that he will get vaccinated in September, absent verified news of substantive adverse side effects. But he was frustrated by lack of hard facts coming out of CDC etc.

Bullshit. Not intelligent or analyical enough to ask his doctor if his father's experience (with what) had any implications for an allergic reaction to a covid vaccine and which might be best for him. Oh no need because he felt his family is "generally prone" to allergic reaction."  Basis? To what? Discussed with doctor?

That's what you pay doctors for. If yours isn't up to it, get another one in general.

Feeling sympathy because do it yourself allergists can't find data is some kind of codependent enabling.

This guy is just a country club version of unvaxxed problem. Fuck him.

Data does no good if someone lacks skills to interpret. Data does no good if those who do have the skills to interpret are not trusted. Feelings. Fuck em all  

Added: should have discussed with doctor months ago. Not now. Fuck country club vaxidiots

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

Bullshit. Not intelligent or analyical enough to ask his doctor if his father's experience (with what) had any implications for an allergic reaction to a covid vaccine and which might be best for him. Oh no need because he felt his family is "generally prone" to allergic reaction."  Basis? To what? Discussed with doctor?

That's what you pay doctors for. If yours isn't up to it, get another one in general.

Feeling sympathy because do it yourself allergists can't find data is some kind of codependent enabling.

This guy is just a country club version of unvaxxed problem. Fuck him.

Data does no good if someone lacks skills to interpret. Data does no good if those who do have the skills to interpret are not trusted. Feelings. Fuck em all  

Added: should have discussed with doctor months ago. Not now. Fuck country club vaxidiots

I've got a business partner a lot like this guy. Smart guy, but in a classic "too smart for his own good" way. He's "allergic" to wheat and dairy. His wife is "allergic" to soy. Neither has been diagnosed by a doctor and both are taking Ivermectin weekly in lieu of vaccination. Can you guess who they voted for?

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Last week my better half had her full work up at her cardiologist (one of the top guys at the TMC in Houston) - he was an hour late for the post consultation and apologized - he had spent that time trying to convince a couple of his patients to get vaccinated.  Not successful, his comment was on the line of they had no problem with me going in and installing things in their bodies but are afraid of a vaccine.

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2 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Bullshit. Not intelligent or analyical enough to ask his doctor if his father's experience (with what) had any implications for an allergic reaction to a covid vaccine and which might be best for him. Oh no need because he felt his family is "generally prone" to allergic reaction."  Basis? To what? Discussed with doctor?

That's what you pay doctors for. If yours isn't up to it, get another one in general.

Feeling sympathy because do it yourself allergists can't find data is some kind of codependent enabling.

This guy is just a country club version of unvaxxed problem. Fuck him.

Data does no good if someone lacks skills to interpret. Data does no good if those who do have the skills to interpret are not trusted. Feelings. Fuck em all  

Added: should have discussed with doctor months ago. Not now. Fuck country club vaxidiots

Not quite fair.

Remember I am a steady and serious advocate of vaccination. But I like to listen to those who are not vaccinated and not treat them as idiots.  

In this case, he was up front and confessed his fear probably did not make a lot of sense. He had the self-honesty to analyze and acknowledge his fear was based on something that had happened to his father.  He had developed a strategy and road map to overcome that fear.  His strategy was to wait 9 months and proceed with more data.

The interesting part of the conversation is that we felt a bit frustrated not to be able to offer him the data .   Nevertheless he has decided, in the absence of negative data to go and get vaccinated in September.

 

As a general comment, if I got a hundred dollars for every patient of mine who is scared of surgery, I would be a very wealthy woman.  Let me tell you what does NOT work in those situations.  You dont tell the patient that they are stupid to be scared of surgery or that they are probably RWNJs who dont trust me, my craft or science.  I tell them that I understand their concerns (because I do) and I carefully explain exactly what is going to happen and why it is incredibly unlikely to go wrong.  I might slip in (with suitable false modesty) my track record. With tricky surgery, I also take the time to explain what might go wrong and exactly how I will deal with that possibility if it occurs.  I am equally careful to explain post op , how it went and if we had to deal with anything unexpected, I explain it to them in calm and factual and easily understood terms.

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@EYESAILORyou are a physician and a kind and compassion person.  The country club #covidcollaborator had a  "strategy to wait 9 months ."

The asshat should have had the wit to consult with a doctor months ago. But no, then he would have to be told his fear was not reality based and have loss of face.

His decision affects more than just himself. The scared surgery patient does not have the externalities your country club #covidcollaborator does. 

I am not prescribing how to deal with the asshole after his 9 month strategy, I am judging his strategy, decision process, and unwillingness to overcome fear enough to get advice earlier. Fuck him.

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What a circle jerk LOL. Round and round! 
 

Somebody mentioned an article that the largest % unvaccinated group when segmenting by education turned out to be PhDs. Is that true?

Eye would laugh and likely not believe me but in a strange twist while visiting my mom who is recovering from a stroke I was two states from home and found myself with two broken eye glasses as luck would have it. Quick trip to the local mall for an eye exam, new RX and glasses. And of course the casual discussion eventually turns to what do you do (which I answered honestly though I need to learn not to) and that then always leads to the question back at me of what do I think  about the vaccine. I have a standard non-committal response that basically says you should talk to your doc but she kept pressing. Youngish (early 30s I am guessing) with a young baby at home. She is not vaxed. Her brother who is a pharmacist is also not. Finally I relented and said if I was in her shoes I would and here is why but I don’t judge either way certainly it’s a personal decision that the realities of our divided country make harder than it should be. She asked if I was and I answered honestly but also said that my decision should not sway her decision. Our situations and relative risks were different. 
 

Three hours later I pick up my two pairs of new glasses and she said she was going to get vaxed. How strange is that. Totally and completely true.

And God do I feel dirty. Should have said I work construction. 

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14 hours ago, Wess said:

 I was two states from home and found myself with two broken eye glasses as luck would have it. Quick trip to the local mall for an eye exam, new RX and glasses. And of course the casual discussion eventually turns to what do you do (which I answered honestly though I need to learn not to) and that then always leads to the question back at me of what do I think  about the vaccine. I have a standard non-committal response that basically says you should talk to your doc but she kept pressing. Youngish (early 30s I am guessing) with a young baby at home. She is not vaxed. Her brother who is a pharmacist is also not. Finally I relented and said if I was in her shoes I would and here is why but I don’t judge either way certainly it’s a personal decision that the realities of our divided country make harder than it should be. She asked if I was and I answered honestly but also said that my decision should not sway her decision. Our situations and relative risks were different. 
 

 

So now that more young people are being affected, are you expanding your cohort for whom you ‘will not’ give advice too?

You’ve spent some serious time here advocating for the right not to be advocated to, yet now you become one yourself in some random pharmacy two whole states from home?

Cool story bro.

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15 hours ago, Wess said:

What a circle jerk LOL. Round and round! 
....    ...

Eye would laugh and likely not believe me but in a strange twist while visiting my mom who is recovering from a stroke I was two states from home and found myself with two broken eye glasses as luck would have it. Quick trip to the local mall for an eye exam, new RX and glasses. ....   ....
 

Three hours later I pick up my two pairs of new glasses....

Bought new eyeglasses?

Why didn't you just let your eyesight take it's natural course?

- DSK

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9 hours ago, fufkin said:

So now that more young people are being affected, are you expanding your cohort for whom you ‘will not’ give advice too?

You’ve spent some serious time here advocating for the right not to be advocated to, yet now you become one yourself in some random pharmacy two whole states from home?

Cool story bro.

There is a huge difference between solicited advise and unwanted and forced advocacy. Same as it ever was.

And because I believe in freedom of choice Steam. I know that is a hard concept for those of you fat and scared people who want he government to tell you and everyone else what to do so you feel safe enough to come out of your basement (if the government lets you). 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/17/2021 at 5:17 AM, Wess said:

What a circle jerk LOL. Round and round! 
 

Somebody mentioned an article that the largest % unvaccinated group when segmenting by education turned out to be PhDs. Is that true?

Eye would laugh and likely not believe me but in a strange twist while visiting my mom who is recovering from a stroke I was two states from home and found myself with two broken eye glasses as luck would have it. Quick trip to the local mall for an eye exam, new RX and glasses. And of course the casual discussion eventually turns to what do you do (which I answered honestly though I need to learn not to) and that then always leads to the question back at me of what do I think  about the vaccine. I have a standard non-committal response that basically says you should talk to your doc but she kept pressing. Youngish (early 30s I am guessing) with a young baby at home. She is not vaxed. Her brother who is a pharmacist is also not. Finally I relented and said if I was in her shoes I would and here is why but I don’t judge either way certainly it’s a personal decision that the realities of our divided country make harder than it should be. She asked if I was and I answered honestly but also said that my decision should not sway her decision. Our situations and relative risks were different. 
 

Three hours later I pick up my two pairs of new glasses and she said she was going to get vaxed. How strange is that. Totally and completely true.

And God do I feel dirty. Should have said I work construction. 

I missed this post.

I did chuckle but I believed you. I would like to hear the "here is why", but that might qualify as unsolicited advice.  So i'm not demanding or expecting a reply.

I also believe you when you told her you were vaccinated but that everyone has different risks. Nevertheless it told her that it is possible to apprise the risks and get vaccinated.

As to having your eye exam in a local mall. That works in an emergency when you need an RX but hopefully you have an ophthalmologist or optometrist at home who gives you a full eye exam on an annual or biannual basis.  ;)

 

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21 hours ago, shavdog said:

Last seven days....159421 cases per day.........1311 deaths per day....my only hope is these are all dumb ass republicans

Is it just republicans? I mean TBH the more people I know who are right wing leaning here are vaccinated. The wealthy right wing suburbs are all the ones with the highest vaccination rates while the poorer left leaning suburbs are the ones with the lowest vaccination rates.

I find a lot of people following that lefty, hippy dippy, free love, alternative healthcare bullshit are the anti-vaxxers...

Also, operation warp speed was spearheaded by the Republican party...

I mean, I do get it that the "m'urica" folks are also not getting it.

But I see more like this in the anti-vax ralley pics here.

How the U.S Exported QAnon to Australia and New Zealand | Time

Anti-lockdown protesters hold 'freedom rallies' in Australia; pelt cops  with plants and bottles | World News - Hindustan Times

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4 hours ago, darth reapius said:

Is it just republicans? I mean TBH the more people I know who are right wing leaning here are vaccinated. The wealthy right wing suburbs are all the ones with the highest vaccination rates while the poorer left leaning suburbs are the ones with the lowest vaccination rates.

I find a lot of people following that lefty, hippy dippy, free love, alternative healthcare bullshit are the anti-vaxxers...

Also, operation warp speed was spearheaded by the Republican party...

I mean, I do get it that the "m'urica" folks are also not getting it.

But I see more like this in the anti-vax ralley pics here.

How the U.S Exported QAnon to Australia and New Zealand | Time

Anti-lockdown protesters hold 'freedom rallies' in Australia; pelt cops  with plants and bottles | World News - Hindustan Times

The US Republicans are no longer conservative, they are now populist. So I don't think you can compare them to traditional conservative parties. The US also has it's own share of nutty lefties who cry when you mention vaccinating their babies.

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4 hours ago, darth reapius said:

Is it just republicans? I mean TBH the more people I know who are right wing leaning here are vaccinated. The wealthy right wing suburbs are all the ones with the highest vaccination rates while the poorer left leaning suburbs are the ones with the lowest vaccination rates.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/nbc-news-poll-shows-demographic-breakdown-vaccinated-u-s-n1277514   US rates, Aug 22 poll. Blacks and Latinos are doing fine getting vaccinated. There is a sharp rural/Republican divide. It's not left leaning folks.

  • Blacks: 76 percent
  • Latinos: 71 percent
  • Urban residents: 79 percent
  • Suburban residents: 67 percent
  • Rural residents: 52 percent
  • White evangelicals: 59 percent
  • Democrats: 88 percent
  • Independents: 60 percent
  • Republicans: 55 percent
  • Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent

 

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the educated and intelligent (not at all mutually inclusive) are mostly getting vaxed (there are always exceptions).

They tend to concentrate in certain demographics because education and intelligence tends to attract aspirationals  .

When those demographics  only swing right or left by a 1 or 2% margin, I don't think one can really say that political persuasion is having much impact on vax rates. This is Australia not the USA.

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13 hours ago, Zonker said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/nbc-news-poll-shows-demographic-breakdown-vaccinated-u-s-n1277514   US rates, Aug 22 poll. Blacks and Latinos are doing fine getting vaccinated. There is a sharp rural/Republican divide. It's not left leaning folks.

  • Blacks: 76 percent
  • Latinos: 71 percent
  • Urban residents: 79 percent
  • Suburban residents: 67 percent
  • Rural residents: 52 percent
  • White evangelicals: 59 percent
  • Democrats: 88 percent
  • Independents: 60 percent
  • Republicans: 55 percent
  • Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent

 

T&P's for the 45% of R's who are not vaccinated.

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  • 2 weeks later...

https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/nicki-minaj-covid-tweet/13543448

:D

 

On Tuesday, Nicki Minaj prompted a question we didn't think we'd have to ponder during the pandemic: Does the COVID vaccine give men balls so big that their fiancés cancel their weddings?

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My cousin in Trinidad won’t get the vaccine cuz his friend got it & became impotent. His testicles became swollen. His friend was weeks away from getting married, now the girl called off the wedding. So just pray on it & make sure you’re comfortable with ur decision, not bullied
 

Unsurprisingly, an anecdote from a rapper's cousin in Trinidad isn't an accurate source of vaccine messaging.

There's no evidence that the COVID vaccine is responsible for anyone's balls swelling.

Health experts debunked the tweet just as quickly as the rest of the internet rushed to make jokes about it.

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