Jump to content

When offered the Vaccine, will you take it?


Recommended Posts

33 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

My view is that society needs to commit to elimination as an eventual target and not merely reduction . That will mean that we have to embrace vaccination.

That means high take up. 

That then brings it into the sphere of someone in authority maybe factoring deaths from Covid in with any 'vaccine consequential' deaths (all ages) when looking at say a mandatory vaccine program. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 2.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

The private sector has embarked on a major campaign to reassure the public that they will not release a vaccine until they are confident it is safe and effective. We can expect a joint statement from

As many of you know I am right of center politically.  I dont think vaccines are a political issue or at least they should not be.  My family are all vaccinated. I tried to think of how I should

You are such a bag of shit wrapped in a thin veneer of pseudo self esteem. You are a walking around killer of strangers free riding on those who got vaccinated. Sponger.

Posted Images

1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

That means high take up. 

That then brings it into the sphere of someone in authority maybe factoring deaths from Covid in with any 'vaccine consequential' deaths (all ages) when looking at say a mandatory vaccine program. 

That means NOT being endorsed by recently former presidents of the US of A.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

I gave it as reason #1 for young people to want to get immunized . "To prevent spread"

I think that MK was just echoing what many of us are saying, that there seems little point to a 30 year old taking the risk getting CV19  when there is a vaccine available.

The whole thesis behind max vaccination is

1. Prevent Spread.  Do not rely on the prisoner dilemma argument (If everyone else gets the vaccine, then I wont need it)

2. Take care of your own health.  You do NOT want to catch this thing irrespective of your age.

3. The vaccinated individual will be safe to resume a normal life. You can travel, meet colleagues at work, apply for any job etc etc

While I realize that there remains a substantial number of people who are reluctant about vaccination. I believe the greater hurdle is availability.  For 3-6 months there will be many more people who want to be vaccinated than there is vaccine availability.

 

Concur with the three points you have stated, in the same order.

I also would like to see widely available vaccines soon, as I am getting tired of the continuous and rising (as in sky rocketing) spread.

The people still arguing against masks or vaccines should devote some time to look into the complications the disease shows with a lot of younger and healthy people. It's not the flu, not even close, so you should a least develop an interest in not catching it for your own sake.

If you are still not convinced, maybe educate yourself about the impact two weeks on a respirator usually have on a strong, fit and healthy person in their 30s or 40s. Hint: it's not pretty.How about losing ~1% of muscle mass per day? Mid term, the ability to swallow food or breathe unassisted? Of course, one can reover, but it'll take time because you are too weak to excercise said skills for more than a few minutes per day. Which will only be assisted if your medical care plan covers these conditions, and enough medical pros are still around to take care of you.

It is NOT the flu, not even close but indeed much worse. You don't want to catch it and you don't wand to spread it.

Seriously, take a look at the survivors with medium or hard complications.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Smallpox was only finally eliminated by  vaccination.

Over 100 million people died from smallpox in the first 3/4 of 20th century.  How quickly we forgot about smallpox. It had been eliminated in the US by vaccination in the 1950s . It was only finally eliminated world wide with a WHO 5 years initiative from 1967 to 1972 which eliminated smallpox from the developing world.

We live in a much more global world than we did in the 1950s.  Air travel is a norm vs the exception. A pandemic is truly global in this age.

I think we have learnt a lot about the importance of elimination vs reduction  . 

My view is that society needs to commit to elimination as an eventual target and not merely reduction . That will mean that we have to embrace vaccination.

 

I bet smallpox lives on in military refrigerators, just waiting for another chance.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Varan said:

I bet smallpox lives on in military refrigerators, just waiting for another chance.

Two refrigerators in two nations in two very secure locations, one in Atlanta and the other in Koltsovo.

They continue to research the virus. It is one ugly beast of a virus. It killed 30% of infected and only spread among humans. That is one disease we were very glad to say goodbye to.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Grog said:

I also would like to see widely available vaccines soon, as I am getting tired of the continuous and rising (as in sky rocketing) spread.

Pretty sure the folks in Democrat Washington DC will be keen to see a vaccine pronto after this weekends arrivals in town.

From all around the country the MAGA mob jambed in maskless into trains, planes and automobiles bringing the virus from case ridden states around the country into DC where it is under control. 

Nice gift.

 

IMG_20201115_182253.jpg

IMG_20201115_182427.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Varan said:

Inslee announces covid related restrictions for Washington State, USA

No indoor seating for bars and restaurants. Museums, movie theaters, bowling alley, gyms, etc., closed. No church choirs. Indoor gatherings with people outside your household will be prohibited unless participants have quarantined and tested negative.

Glad to see this. The University of Washington hospital network saw COVID admissions double in just one week and the infection curve trajectory has been straight up without any bend.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, IStream said:

Glad to see this. The University of Washington hospital network saw COVID admissions double in just one week and the infection curve trajectory has been straight up without any bend.

Cue the covidiots who won't follow basic pandemic protocol to scream about how their rights are being violated.   Many Darwin awards still to be given out in this pandemic.

Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Cue the covidiots who won't follow basic pandemic protocol to scream about how their rights are being violated.   Many Darwin awards still to be given out in this pandemic.

If all those people did was put themselves at risk, with no impact on the rest of us, I'd say "knock yourselves out." Unfortunately, that ain't the case. You wear a mask primarily to protect me. I wear a mask primarily to protect you. You aren't holding up your end of the bargain. Not that I would expect you to, since it's all about you.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

A,  Many vaccines require two doses, 

B, nobody's sure which ones will work, so they've ordered more from different suppliers to cover all bases..

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mark Set said:

hold up,,, why have we ordered 5 doses per person?

Probably a scattershot approach, since know one knows when any of these will come online or be most effective. Don't want all your eggs in one basket.  On the plus side, most of the US pre-order consists of the two candidates closest to practical release, both with a high claimed efficacy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Us Queenslanders we’re told by our real premier (CMO Jannette Young) last night that vaccinations will begin in March and all Queenslanders will be vaccinated by the end of next year. So by Christmas 2022 people from Sydney and Melbourne will be allowed to come to the state to buy all the failed tourism businesses. 

She of course will then be retired on her 200k a year government pension. I hope every other state bans to cunt of a thing for life.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Tharsheblows said:

Sorry if this was already discussed, but does anyone have any current/accurate information (info-guesses) when the vaccine will actually be available in the US for the average person.

It's the US so ... are you a Lefty or a Righty?

Are you Black, Brown, Yellow or are you white?

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Weyalan said:

Seems like Qantas in particular, and probably International carriers in general are gonna be requiring proof of Covid vaccination for International travellers... thus spake Mr Joyce. 

I’m hoping that once the vulnerable population have an opportunity to get the vaccination then the rules will be relaxed...because those who are most worried can be protected.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Weyalan said:

Seems like Qantas in particular, and probably International carriers in general are gonna be requiring proof of Covid vaccination for International travellers... thus spake Mr Joyce. 

I certainly hope they do. However, Joyce is still an overpaid annoying little Homo.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I certainly hope they do. However, Joyce is still an overpaid annoying little Homo.

What ... did he not accept your dick-smoking offer?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The CDC says the vaccine will be made available in the US toward the end of the second week of December in a “hierarchical way with priority going to nursing home residents and then some combination of health care providers and individuals at high risk for a poor outcome”

 

It feels good to have a date that will likely mark the beginning of the end of this crap.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/22/2020 at 7:31 PM, Tharsheblows said:

Sorry if this was already discussed, but does anyone have any current/accurate information (info-guesses) when the vaccine will actually be available in the US for the average person.

It depends on how many vaccines are approved. Currently the outlook for Moderna and Pfizer looks good. Combined they can make approx 25 million treatments a month for the USA. Lets assume they start end December,  Population of the USA is approx 330m Herd immunity starts at around 70% , So September ......+28days.

I think they step it up, so unscientifically July_September

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

It depends on how many vaccines are approved. Currently the outlook for Moderna and Pfizer looks good. Combined they can make approx 25 million treatments a month for the USA. Lets assume they start end December,  Population of the USA is approx 330m Herd immunity starts at around 70% , So September ......+28days.

I think they step it up, so unscientifically July_September

Do you think 70% of the people will take the vaccine given the opportunity?  (we almost all take measles and small pox shots but many people still don't take flu shots even though they have been proven very safe and effective)

Also, do you think we need at least 70% of the population to get vaccinated or, for example, if we get 30-40% of the most vulnerable people vaccinated will the seriousness of the problem be reduced to the point where it no longer warrants all the economic/travel restrictions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No worries. However, I do question the validity of the chart given that it says that Singapore has no access to the vaccine. Singapore will find a way to get what Singapore wants, in this and many other things...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Well there are plenty of planes sitting in various deserts around the world. 

 

 

Given the fact that most airlines are running a little less than half capacity and the FAA just cleared all the 737 Max's to fly again, they should be able to find the planes and pilot capacity.  However, the refrigeration might be an issue.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/27/2020 at 2:50 AM, IStream said:

No worries. However, I do question the validity of the chart given that it says that Singapore has no access to the vaccine. Singapore will find a way to get what Singapore wants, in this and many other things...

Not NO access.

Metric is vaccine 'supply agreements IN place'. And yes plenty of access.

Methodology HERE

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

My hospital sent out this text to us a few mins ago. Woohoo!!!!

 

Good morning everyone. We are going to have COVID vaccines here very soon and we are trying to figure out who all would accept the vaccine. Please respond with YES or NO. Thank you!

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

My hospital sent out this text to us a few mins ago. Woohoo!!!!

 

Good morning everyone. We are going to have COVID vaccines here very soon and we are trying to figure out who all would accept the vaccine. Please respond with YES or NO. Thank you!

The use of "who all" in an official communication, not to mention the fact that a hospital is asking which of its employees are willing to be vaccinated, constitutes a surprising amount of geographic metadata. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, IStream said:

The use of "who all" in an official communication, not to mention the fact that a hospital is asking which of its employees are willing to be vaccinated, constitutes a surprising amount of geographic metadata. 

Rural American red state hospital. What's amazing is how many of my fellow RNs are responding with "No. "  

"Amazing " is the wrong word. "Disheartening " is better. 

The only reason I MIGHT pass was if I was pregnant. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Clove Hitch said:

Rural American red state hospital. What's amazing is how many of my fellow RNs are responding with "No. "  

"Amazing " is the wrong word. "Disheartening " is better. 

The only reason I MIGHT pass was if I was pregnant. 

If you are 35 or younger and otherwise healthy it might be perfectly reasonable to respond "no" given the very high survival rate of that age group, especially if you are just saying "no" temporarily to waiting to see the results of the first round of vaccinations.  

If you are over 60, healthy or not,  the risks probably outweigh the benefits of waiting IMHO.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Tharsheblows said:

If you are 35 or younger and otherwise healthy it might be perfectly reasonable to respond "no" given the very high survival rate of that age group, especially if you are just saying "no" temporarily to waiting to see the results of the first round of vaccinations.  

If you are over 60, healthy or not,  the risks probably outweigh the benefits of waiting IMHO.

This isn't a binary situation. Plenty of people develop longer-term morbidity with COVID. It's also known that the level of exposure at time of infection affects the severity of the disease. If I were in regular contact with COVID positive patients, PPE or no PPE, I'd consider it a no-brainer to get the vaccine. But that's just me.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Once again, it's not about personal risk of dying.  It's about stopping disease transmission.  Just line up and get it when it's your turn.

FWIW, the NYT "Find your place in line" calculator puts me at 96th out of 100.  :unsure:  I'm guessing that's... maybe a year from now?  Could go pick up some co-morbidities as a hobby, I suppose.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, toddster said:

FWIW, the NYT "Find your place in line" calculator puts me at 96th out of 100.  :unsure: 

I'm in the "everyone else" set, too. 

I'm not sure how my demographic's risk is related to our priority.

We're after healthy young adult females who, based on a glance at the CDC data have about 1/700th the chance of death and, I guess -- can't find good data quickly-- three orders of magnitude less chance of hospitalization. Not sure about long term issues less dire than that.

I suppose the theory is they're more likely to be carriers? I dunno. The hard cut off on age and disregarding sex seem simplistic.

No question, it's a very difficult problem. I do think that it will be important for the powers that be to communicate exactly why they are making the choices they come to. Sadly, the powers that be have a very poor record in the communications area so far.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, toddster said:

Once again, it's not about personal risk of dying.  It's about stopping disease transmission.  Just line up and get it when it's your turn.

FWIW, the NYT "Find your place in line" calculator puts me at 96th out of 100.  :unsure:  I'm guessing that's... maybe a year from now?  Could go pick up some co-morbidities as a hobby, I suppose.  

I'm at the bottom of the top one-third, as is my wife.  But we live in Florida, so we are only in the middle of the pack for the county and town we live in. Lots of other geezers down here.

The geezer-on-geezer violence to move up in line will not be a pretty sight. Then again, a lot of the Trumpsters may decide it is all a plot by Bill Gates to implant microchips in their bodies, so we may move up in the queue. We will encourage them in that belief.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/25/2020 at 5:15 PM, Tharsheblows said:

Do you think 70% of the people will take the vaccine given the opportunity?  (we almost all take measles and small pox shots but many people still don't take flu shots even though they have been proven very safe and effective)

Yes

Also, do you think we need at least 70% of the population to get vaccinated or, for example, if we get 30-40% of the most vulnerable people vaccinated will the seriousness of the problem be reduced to the point where it no longer warrants all the economic/travel restrictions.

Nope, it doesnt work that way. the key is to develop herd immunity by vaccinating as many potential hosts as possible. Immunizing the vulnerable will reduce mortality but not eliminate the disease. Clearly start wth the vulnerable but we dont want to leave our youth with all the long term ill effects of the disease and its complications,

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/2/2020 at 10:03 AM, IStream said:

The use of "who all" in an official communication, not to mention the fact that a hospital is asking which of its employees are willing to be vaccinated, constitutes a surprising amount of geographic metadata. 

It is incredible that a hospital management felt such a lack of duty of care to patients that they would give staff the idea that its okay not to be vaccinated and expect to wander the wards and treat  vulnerable patient populations.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

It is incredible that a hospital management felt such a lack of duty of care to patients that they would give staff the idea that its okay not to be vaccinated and expect to wander the wards and treat  vulnerable patient populations.

 

Freedom, Eye, freedom.

Needless to say, if I were King of the Hospital, it'd be get the jab or hit the bricks.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, IStream said:

Freedom, Eye, freedom.

Needless to say, if I were King of the Hospital, it'd be get the jab or hit the bricks.

Eye believe in freedom . We are free to choose our careers and jobs.  With the career of a healthcare worker, there are certain responsibilities.  

We owe a duty of care to our patients. We scrub and wear masks in the OR and we get tested.  There will be some measure of peer pressure to get vaccinated , Can you imagine 4 people in the OR vaccinated wanting to allow a 5th team member join the who is not vaccinated.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

the key is to develop herd immunity by vaccinating as many potential hosts as possible.

At this point I don't believe it is known if any of the vaccines provide sterilizing immunity. Am I wrong?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31976-0/fulltext

"These observations suggest that we cannot assume COVID-19 vaccines, even if shown to be effective in reducing severity of disease, will reduce virus transmission to a comparable degree."

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

It is incredible that a hospital management felt such a lack of duty of care to patients that they would give staff the idea that its okay not to be vaccinated and expect to wander the wards and treat  vulnerable patient populations.

 

Just goes to show how desperate we are for staff. And I mean desperate. We have LPNs doing critical care. Our ratios are dangerous and its borderline mayhem. 

Management won't do anything that could drive away a single nurse or nurse aide. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Clove Hitch said:

Just goes to show how desperate we are for staff. And I mean desperate. We have LPNs doing critical care. Our ratios are dangerous and its borderline mayhem. 

Management won't do anything that could drive away a single nurse or nurse aide. 

Understood.   We had a crazy staffing problem in March/April. Even though the cases are even higher in the 2nd wave and both hospitals getting full, it feels more under control.  I can share a couple of observations.

  • Hospital medical staff feel better prepared. There is PPE and they have better protocols, better training and a better sense of being able to do something to help patients.
  • This is combined with an enormous sense of frustration that the US allowed this second wave to develop. After all the sacrifices of the first wave, we did not secure and keep the disease repressed.  The sense of deja vu is overwhelming and there is quite a lot of depression and anxiety among staff.   We have had our first older on staff RN get sick last week and there is a lot of back chat about how many might needlessly die before the vaccine arrives. 
  • We got various memos preparing us for vaccine.   There is a very strong sense here of.......lets get this damn vaccine rolling
  • Its going to be controversial who is considered health care workers for vaccine. I will get vaccinated because I am a doctor. But what about my staff. Im guessing that my nurses will get vaccinated but what about my medical assistant?  More controversial, what about my front of office staff?   Im going to feel awkward getting vaccinated and leaving my front staff vulnerable. That is going to seem very elitist because quite frankly they are more exposed.  They are working at the front desk seeing every patient that I see and with 2+ patients in the waiting room with them for at least 1/2-3/4 hour.  While there are screens etc in the front office, there is not the same level of filtration etc as in the examination rooms and OR. They have a handy/dandy mask where I get full PPE.  Out of my pocket I have bought them better protective gear but the level of hygiene is just more extreme once a patients comes through to the medical side of hospital/ASC/ examination room.    So I would really like to see front staff vaccinated.
  • The hospital still has not finalized a vaccination order or a plan to vaccinate.   The front line ER  and anyone dealing with CV19  will get the first doses, then dialysis staff  but after that we have no idea of the order. I have an older average patient demographic which is meant to count for something but no sign of that being taken into account.  Mine is a wide spread practice with patients from children to 100 years old but a large  patient population over 70. So I would like my staff and myself to get vaccinated asap.
  •  
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Before visiting the vaccination room,  you might review this statement from Dr Micheal Yeadon , ex Pfizer head of respiratory research and Wolfgang Woodard , former  head of public health 

 

https://2020news.de/en/dr-wodarg-and-dr-yeadon-request-a-stop-of-all-corona-vaccination-studies-and-call-for-co-signing-the-petition/

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Before visiting the vaccination room,  you might review this statement from Dr Micheal Yeadon , ex Pfizer head of respiratory research and Wolfgang Woodard , former  head of public health...

High probability of the acute problem being egotistical quacks with axes to grind. Is a petition drive really a scientific way to guide research?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't wait to get the vaccine, any one of them, but our county in central Illinois has the lowest death rate of out neighbors, so the first batches of vaccine are going to the neighboring counties that have screwed up more than us. Not fair!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Might take a bit longer than hoped for to get a vaccination.

“Trump administration passed up chance in summer to buy millions of additional doses of Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine”

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-nw-trump-pfizer-covid-vaccine-20201208-rghpiev5xnaqreunoqbhpkrzay-story.html

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can assure you that the veritable parade of wingnuts, denialists hucksters will all of a sudden be pushing their way to the front of the line for their needle.

The only thing more contagious that the coronavirus is the collective idiocy.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Mark Set said:

you guys can all take the crazy developed in 6 months un approved all-new technology mRNA vaccine of a type that's never been used on humans before. I'll wait till next year.    posted Dec 8th

The mRNA vaccine science has been used on humans for around 5 years.

This particular vaccine was developed 9 months ago. Once you have the genome thingy it is very fast. It'tsnot like a molecular drug which takes years to develop.  No one is getting it before it is approved.

You are right, the progress in vaccine science is nothing short of CRAZY.  To think that for 150 years we have had the hit or miss process of vaccine development where we try and create a dead version of the virus or a similar virus that is less dangerous than the virus itself????  Now that was a risky vaccine. But now we look at the DNA/RNA of the virus and replicate the attachment protein and inject one harmless part of the virus RNA so that our body develops a very targeted response without the risk of taking the virus itself. Crazy is an understatement. Crazy, Miraculous, Incredible.

What is very heartening is that the process is replicable for many other viruses we dont even know about yet .  As the population in Asia pushes further into animal/human border geography we will create other animal-human virus transfers.  The pace of virus epidemics has accelerated. Now we need protocols to prevent them becoming pandemics.  Genetic developed vaccines will be an important weapon and we will get faster not slower.  IMO we will be developing mRNA vaccines for general classes of virus that can be shipped immdeiately while we develop a specific vaccine. Imgaine if we had a "spike" vaccine for generalized covid varietals. It might only be 60% effective for any specific covid but it would significantly slow or even stop spread while we develop specific vaccine

Anyway, there is none available for you this year, we will look you up in a month or two :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

In the interests of appeasing my concern can you post which one has been in approved use and widely used?

In-completed trials etc. Science of mRNA, no commercial vaccine.   The problem with vaccines is that you need them to be around long enough for a sample population . Yes this will be first mass vaccination

You can read the Pfizer report now. It is public. Thus far no significant adverse effects.  

Many medicines have risks associated with them.  The key is that overall, medicines improve the odds in our lives. Penicillin has adverse effects but it saved millions of lives.  

These vaccines have proven to not cause harm thus far on 35,000 people. When we widen that to 350,000,000 we will know more but I now think it is very unlikely.....35,000 is a large sample size for safety.

By all means wait......the vaccine will be in short supply until Feb/March/April. All I ask is that you be very careful in the meantime. The disease itself is harmful. The vaccine replicate one small part of the virus protein spike and allows you body to defend itself. The virus itself has the spike + the bad stuff as well.   You have two ways of getting immune.....catching the disease= bad news.......getting the vaccine = no bad news yet after 8 months of tests and trials.   When presented with that choice, I suggest option B is better.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 dead so far in FDA trials of Pfizer vaccine, 4 developed Bells palsy. When's the last time that happened in a trial for a vaccine? I already had covid and so have a lot of people i know, its really no big deal for most people.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Mark Set said:

2 dead so far in FDA trials of Pfizer vaccine, 4 developed Bells palsy. When's the last time that happened in a trial for a vaccine? I already had covid and so have a lot of people i know, its really no big deal for most people.

The two died of natural causes that would be expected in the size of population. One had a heart attack. I forget the other.

If you are going to take a sample of 20,000 across a wide age group including seniors, some are going to die. The key is that nobody died from CV19 in the vaccinated group.

Bells palsy lasts about 1- 2 weeks and occurs for a number of reasons. It can be caused by a reaction to a virus, so its a remote possibility that it was caused by a reaction the the vaccine. You can also get it from being a diabetic, they will chcek.  It occured in o.o2% of the vaccinated population. We will doubtless hear if it cleared up.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Mark Set said:

2 dead so far in FDA trials of Pfizer vaccine, 4 developed Bells palsy. When's the last time that happened in a trial for a vaccine? I already had covid and so have a lot of people i know, its really no big deal for most people.

Was the cause of death determined as being due to the Pfizer vaccine?  Plus in any group of thousands of random people several will die from assorted causes within a few months period.

Bell's Palsy, while disconcerting, is temporary and usually goes away after a short period of time.  https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/uk-news/four-trial-volunteers-of-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-develop-bells-palsy-us-fda-clarifies.html

Short quote from the article: 

"Four people in the United States, who got COVID-19 vaccine shot developed by Pfizer/BioNTech, developed Bell’s Palsy, which is a form of temporary facial paralysis. According to US FDA report on the shot, there wasn’t any clear information on whether the vaccine caused Bell’s palsy. However, the officials warned that doctors should watch for the alarming situation and Pfizer should continue to keep a tab on how many people it strikes. 

Bell’s Palsy resolves on its own most of the time. According to DailyMail, the US FDA said that the number of Bell’s palsy cases seen in the vaccine trial was "consistent with the background frequency of reported Bell's palsy in the vaccine group that is consistent with the expected background rate in the general population." The officials added that there is no clear basis upon which to conclude a causal relationship at this time, but they also will keep a close watch on future cases."

Now I did hear on the radio this morning that 2 UK recipients of the Pfizer vaccine did have reactions, but they were both health health workers with severe allergy problems and carried epi-pens with them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

In-completed Incomplete trials

FIFY.

If the vaccine was available to me I'd take it. However, I'm an older male. I don't believe it's an obvious choice for everyone. A young female thinking about having children, for instance, has a more complicated risk / reward calculation than I.

Let's be up front here: the risks associated with the mRNA vaccines are less well understood than risks associated with most FDA approved drugs. The EUAs that are underway meet a lower bar than regular FDA approvals. Human mRNA vaccines are novel. There is no long term data on human use. Rushing these drugs to market is vital in the pandemic but rushing also increases the risk of missing problems. I think we should expect complications to show up in the general population that haven't been seen in the trials.

Here's my understanding of the current state of understanding of the mRNA vaccines:

  • They provide excellent protection from disease
  • Serious, acute complications are rare
  • Long term complications are unknown
  • Effectiveness in stopping transmission is unknown

Here's a good summary of the history of RNA therapies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7250668/

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

If you are going to take a sample of 20,000 across a wide age group including seniors, some are going to die. The key is that nobody died from CV19 in the vaccinated group.

Statistically you would expect over 12 months that 160 of them would die IF the sample was truly representative (mortality rate 8:1,000).  That hasn't happened for the obvious reason that the sample isn't representative.  Ethical considerations don't permit it to be truly representative.

With the high end estimate of Covid-19 IFR being around 0.15% or you would expect in a population of 20,000 that if they all got infected 30 may die (however they wouldn't be excess deaths i.e. there would in that 30 be people who would have normally been within the 160).  If the sample size was representative of the entire population (which it isn't) then you would expect 160 people to die from all causes.  Therefore statistically it would be improbable that anyone in the entire sample would die of Covid-19.

 
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/3/2020 at 12:37 PM, toddster said:

Once again, it's not about personal risk of dying.  It's about stopping disease transmission.  Just line up and get it when it's your turn.

FWIW, the NYT "Find your place in line" calculator puts me at 96th out of 100.  :unsure:  I'm guessing that's... maybe a year from now?  Could go pick up some co-morbidities as a hobby, I suppose.  

8 hours ago, Mark Set said:

2 dead so far in FDA trials of Pfizer vaccine, 4 developed Bells palsy. When's the last time that happened in a trial for a vaccine? I already had covid and so have a lot of people i know, its really no big deal for most people.

I generally agree with your approach if you belong to a "safer" demographic. 

But also its important to note that two or three people having a serious issue (dead or really bad reaction) could be just chance.  Take any group of several thousand people you are likely to have two or three people die or come down with something weird.  I wouldn't immediately presume it is causal..but it should be looked at very closely.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/8/2020 at 2:09 PM, EYESAILOR said:

The mRNA vaccine science has been used on humans for around 5 years.

This particular vaccine was developed 9 months ago. Once you have the genome thingy it is very fast. It'tsnot like a molecular drug which takes years to develop.  No one is getting it before it is approved.

You are right, the progress in vaccine science is nothing short of CRAZY.  To think that for 150 years we have had the hit or miss process of vaccine development where we try and create a dead version of the virus or a similar virus that is less dangerous than the virus itself????  Now that was a risky vaccine. But now we look at the DNA/RNA of the virus and replicate the attachment protein and inject one harmless part of the virus RNA so that our body develops a very targeted response without the risk of taking the virus itself. Crazy is an understatement. Crazy, Miraculous, Incredible.

What is very heartening is that the process is replicable for many other viruses we dont even know about yet .  As the population in Asia pushes further into animal/human border geography we will create other animal-human virus transfers.  The pace of virus epidemics has accelerated. Now we need protocols to prevent them becoming pandemics.  Genetic developed vaccines will be an important weapon and we will get faster not slower.  IMO we will be developing mRNA vaccines for general classes of virus that can be shipped immdeiately while we develop a specific vaccine. Imgaine if we had a "spike" vaccine for generalized covid varietals. It might only be 60% effective for any specific covid but it would significantly slow or even stop spread while we develop specific vaccine

Anyway, there is none available for you this year, we will look you up in a month or two :)

I agree that mRNA vaccines are very exciting.  The idea of using a material that can be essentially manufactured rather than the need to biological grow and disable the actual virus is next level awesome. 

But I have a little issue with the use of the word "harmless" because when your body manufactures the resultant protein unpredictable things could possibly happen.  Many of the most detrimental aspects of various diseases are caused by your bodies' own reactions and systems.  And to make a ever more obscure, unrelated point, even proteins can occasionally be very harmful (i.e. prions proteins). 

It is very possible that IF there are bad reactions to this vaccine that they will be caused by our own bodies' immune systems.

That said, I can tell you know more about this than I do and it is very exciting but I don't mind being at the end of the line for the vaccine!

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/3/2020 at 12:37 PM, toddster said:

Once again, it's not about personal risk of dying.  It's about stopping disease transmission.  Just line up and get it when it's your turn.

FWIW, the NYT "Find your place in line" calculator puts me at 96th out of 100.  :unsure:  I'm guessing that's... maybe a year from now?  Could go pick up some co-morbidities as a hobby, I suppose.  

I get your point but I believe it is still mostly about dying because lets say hypothetically that for one reason or another (maybe because of some newly developed treatment), nobody died of the COVID anymore, the concern with the disease would likely drop by 95%.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tharsheblows said:

I

But I have a little issue with the use of the word "harmless" because when your body manufactures the resultant protein unpredictable things could possibly happen.

 

Quite right. Sloppy writing by me.

I should have said something like the gene encodes a component of the virus and not the virus itself.  It is not the part of the virus that attacks the respiratory system. 

And yes, it is both amazing and incredible to ponder where it all ends up.  The research was primarily focussed on finding genetic based cures for cancer....cancer vaccines if you like. So this is a sideline to what they see as their primary mission....curing cancer.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

I'm getting the first jab tomorrow.  For the past year+ I've been heeding medical professional advice with great success.  I'll admit to being a bit ambivalent about playing with fire. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Jules said:

I'm getting the first jab tomorrow.  For the past year+ I've been heeding medical professional advice with great success.  I'll admit to being a bit ambivalent about playing with fire. 

Go for it, Jules. We live on the E coast of FL, and got the first dose two weeks ago. Scheduled for the second next week.

We had no side effects from the first.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/4/2021 at 7:13 PM, accnick said:

Go for it, Jules. We live on the E coast of FL, and got the first dose two weeks ago. Scheduled for the second next week.

We had no side effects from the first.

Got the jab late today.  My neighbor (Rick) helped facilitate it and before I left I said, "It's been nice knowing you.  See you on the other side."  (neighbors know I have a playful, and sarcastic, nature)

After the jab my SO and I went out for a rare cocktail (open breeze and all that kind of thing).  On our way home I said, "I want to bang on Rick's door, 'Night of the Living Dead' style and when he opens the door I'll do the zombie walk."

I hit the door with three hard and slow fists... and we wait.  We hear footsteps.  Rick opens the door and I put out my arms doing the zombie walk. 

Rick says, "FUCK!  You guys scared the shit out of me!"  And then we had a good laugh.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Jules said:

Got the jab late today.  My neighbor (Rick) helped facilitate it and before I left I said, "It's been nice knowing you.  See you on the other side."  (neighbors know I have a playful, and sarcastic, nature)

After the jab my SO and I went out for a rare cocktail (open breeze and all that kind of thing).  On our way home I said, "I want to bang on Rick's door, 'Night of the Living Dead' style and when he opens the door I'll do the zombie walk."

I hit the door with three hard and slow fists... and we wait.  We hear footsteps.  Rick opens the door and I put out my arms doing the zombie walk. 

Rick says, "FUCK!  You guys scared the shit out of me!"  And then we had a good laugh.

I hope it was a socially distanced laugh......

Link to post
Share on other sites

Moderna here, 1st one nothing for 24 hours then some soreness in shoulder, very minor.  2nd? nothing for 12 hours, felt somewhat slow mentally, spent the night having all the symptoms of the flu compressed into 10 hours. Very weird, then felt like Mike Tyson had beat on me.  So, Mike Tyson is the immune system and this means I won. 

I didn't cut in line, thanks to some close friends was able to go to a small clinic that had a cancellation, I know so many who are trying to get it and can't. Texas is scheduled to receive 400k doses next week so that should help.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Moderna here, 1st one nothing for 24 hours then some soreness in shoulder, very minor.  2nd? nothing for 12 hours, felt somewhat slow mentally, spent the night having all the symptoms of the flu compressed into 10 hours. Very weird, then felt like Mike Tyson had beat on me.  So, Mike Tyson is the immune system and this means I won. 

I didn't cut in line, thanks to some close friends was able to go to a small clinic that had a cancellation, I know so many who are trying to get it and can't. Texas is scheduled to receive 400k doses next week so that should help.

I'm experiencing a soreness in the arm that worsens over time (first jab).  Other than that, nothing.

What was worse was the fact I got the shot at a grocery store pharmacy.  The poor pharmacist administering the shots was so busy filling prescriptions he could only do COVID shots every 15 minutes.  At that rate, it will be forever before everyone gets the shot. 

But apparently they knew about this because everyone is given an appointment time, there were only two waiting chairs and one was empty the entire time I was there. 

All those people sitting at their computers trying to get that rare appointment only to see they are booked up in seconds probably have no idea so few shots are available.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Mr. President. Living in a state with one of lowest vaccination rates, it was looking like it would be 2022 before we would be eligible for a vaccine. Got the call yesterday. So many antivaxers here, they are seeking out folks to be vaccinated. Made an appointment for Monday, President's Day. How cool is that? Asked about the wife, and they scheduled her for the same as me. Easier for them, they said. They even scheduled both our second shots of Moderna for one month later. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites