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When offered the Vaccine, will you take it?


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Responding to Kate is a waste of time and effort. She is a classic troll who lives in New Zealand and doesn't even have a risk of contracting let alone transmitting Covid. Best just to ignore her and get on with your life, preferably vaccinated and happy like me.

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10 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Responding to Kate is a waste of time and effort. She is a classic troll who lives in New Zealand and doesn't even have a risk of contracting let alone transmitting Covid. Best just to ignore her and get on with your life, preferably vaccinated and happy like me.

Yes, what a sense of relief. Enjoyed a nice sail and picnic lunch last weekend with neighbors that we hadn't socialized with in months.

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12 hours ago, d'ranger said:

...   ...

I know people who refuse to take the vaccine - because fuck your feelings.

It's the best way to OWN THE LIBS!

 

11 hours ago, dorydude said:

So....what happened to the Spanish Flu???

Your concern is touching, but it was fine. All the millions of people it killed? They were going to die anyway.

- DSK

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's the best way to OWN THE LIBS!

 

Your concern is touching, but it was fine. All the millions of people it killed? They were going to die anyway.

- DSK

You didn't answer the question..what happened to the Spanish Flu virus?

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Woah, 9 pages. not reading all that. more to the point.

Will you accept a vaccine over others if you're deemed eligible even if you personally don't think you are high risk? 

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On 3/17/2021 at 11:24 AM, dorydude said:

You didn't answer the question..what happened to the Spanish Flu virus?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291398/
 

You seem willing to bet on less lethal mutation for COVID.  (I guess you’re feeling lucky? Punk?). On the other hand, and just as likely, we could be on the foothills of an upward slope of mutagenic lethality.  Like early in 1918.  
 

Mutation is a bitch, and someone who thinks they’re tougher (:lol:) than the virus could incubate a variant that would render us helpless (again) against it.  Especially immune suppressed victims (so the MD nephews are telling us), and since the willfully unmasked proudly prance among us, exercising their apparent God given right to infect others, I fear that is just a matter of time.

But, if you would, dorydude, would you tell us if specific zones were set up where no PPE was expected, no vaccines were necessary, any treatments were allowed, no shutdowns, distancing or public health measures were in effect, and the borders of those areas were closed to anyone wanting out without stringent testing, quarantine, vaccination, and monitoring, would you go to one of those freedom zones?

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5 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Woah, 9 pages. not reading all that. more to the point.

Will you accept a vaccine over others if you're deemed eligible even if you personally don't think you are high risk? 

There was a thing on CNN here with an ethicist. One point he made is, if you don't go make a shot appointment when the system says you are eligible, you don't know that "your" unused vaccine will go to someone more deserving. It may be someone less vulnerable who is in the same eligibility group. Plus, he said, the more people vaccinated the better off everyone is, so just take your shot when it's your turn.

So yes I did accept mine not foregoing in case there was someone my age, my conditions PLUS one more risk factor. 

 

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On 3/17/2021 at 2:24 PM, dorydude said:
On 3/17/2021 at 10:08 AM, Steam Flyer said:

Your concern is touching, but it was fine. All the millions of people it killed? They were going to die anyway.

 

You didn't answer the question..what happened to the Spanish Flu virus?

My answer bolded for the reading-impaired

You're welcome

- DSK

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13 hours ago, Amati said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291398/
 

You seem willing to bet on less lethal mutation for COVID.  (I guess you’re feeling lucky? Punk?). On the other hand, and just as likely, we could be on the foothills of an upward slope of mutagenic lethality.  Like early in 1918.  
 

Mutation is a bitch, and someone who thinks they’re tougher (:lol:) than the virus could incubate a variant that would render us helpless (again) against it.  Especially immune suppressed victims (so the MD nephews are telling us), and since the willfully unmasked proudly prance among us, exercising their apparent God given right to infect others, I fear that is just a matter of time.

But, if you would, dorydude, would you tell us if specific zones were set up where no PPE was expected, no vaccines were necessary, any treatments were allowed, no shutdowns, distancing or public health measures were in effect, and the borders of those areas were closed to anyone wanting out without stringent testing, quarantine, vaccination, and monitoring, would you go to one of those freedom zones?

Yes

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Just now, Amati said:

I guess it’s time to get out the barbed wire and construction crews then.  So how do you want to partition Switzerland?  Vote?

On the other hand, you could move to Idaho.  Mountains, Lakes, no motorcycle helmets, pretty high taxes.....

It’s a freedom zone in the making!  Only Democrat ‘fraidieCats wear masks, so we’ll see if they stay or if they go!  

https://www.idahopress.com/news/local/legislature-shuts-down-until-april-6-due-to-covid-19-outbreak/article_01f8ab5c-b040-5bd9-94a7-7ea2276495a8.html

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A guide to freedom areas!  (Like freedom to infect, vs freedom from infection):)

https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2020/states-mask-mandates-coronavirus.html

this also can function as a leading edge indicator (like license plates).  For example, N Dakota plate?  (Depending on your COVID proclivities,)

A) Invite them into your home, local bar, restaurant, boat cabin, spend hours having a good time, indoors! give em a hug, have a big loud laugh close up, etc, don’t worry about mask shaming, or vaccination cards.

B )  Run

etc....  

Might consider moving!  Freedom! :)

 

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On 3/18/2021 at 7:15 AM, accnick said:

Before or after it killed between 20 and 50 million people worldwide?

Uhh, the point is that you are trying desperately to avoid is that the Spanish Flu vanished on its own accord. No vaccine required.

Just like SARS, MERS, bird flu/ swine flu, Asian flu (1957-58), Hong Kong flu (1968-70).

They don't hang around for long. The rushed vaccine we are being pressured to have will most likely be useless against next seasons flu.

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42 minutes ago, dorydude said:

Uhh, the point is that you are trying desperately to avoid is that the Spanish Flu vanished on its own accord. No vaccine required.

Just like SARS, MERS, bird flu/ swine flu, Asian flu (1957-58), Hong Kong flu (1968-70).

They don't hang around for long. The rushed vaccine we are being pressured to have will most likely be useless against next seasons flu.

Covid 19 would probably vanish on its own, too, at least in its current forms. The questions are how many would die first, and how disruptive  would it be to world economies and the general way of life if allowed to run unchecked until it burned itself out in its current forms?

Of course the development of a vaccine was rushed, but it was still tested by normal processes, and shown to be effective. Your anti-science and anti-vaccine bias is truly pathetic. 

By the way, polio did not burn itself out. It was largely eliminated by effective vaccines. To believe we have not made progress in vaccine development in the 65 years since that is to ignore scientific progress.

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52 minutes ago, dorydude said:

Uhh, the point is that you are trying desperately to avoid is that the Spanish Flu vanished on its own accord. No vaccine required.

Just like SARS, MERS, bird flu/ swine flu, Asian flu (1957-58), Hong Kong flu (1968-70).

They don't hang around for long. The rushed vaccine we are being pressured to have will most likely be useless against next seasons flu.

Is polio a coronavirus?

How do you explain India?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-56037565

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5 hours ago, accnick said:

The questions are how many would die first, and how disruptive  would it be to world economies and the general way of life if allowed to run unchecked until it burned itself out in its current forms?

Well that's the KEY question.  The most disruption to "world economies" has been caused by Government intervention NOT Covid-19.

I'm surprised that Covid-19 isn't being blamed for Global Warming aka Climate Change!  Afterall it has blown plastic use through the roof and petroleum use.

 

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2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Well that's the KEY question.  The most disruption to "world economies" has been caused by Government intervention NOT Covid-19.

I'm surprised that Covid-19 isn't being blamed for Global Warming aka Climate Change!  Afterall it has blown plastic use through the roof and petroleum use.

 

The government's appear to be far more dangerous than Covid. 

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On 3/17/2021 at 10:20 PM, TheDragon said:

Responding to Kate is a waste of time and effort. She is a classic troll who lives in New Zealand and doesn't even have a risk of contracting let alone transmitting Covid. Best just to ignore her and get on with your life, preferably vaccinated and happy like me.

She's a he.:rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Well that's the KEY question.  The most disruption to "world economies" has been caused by Government intervention NOT Covid-19.

I'm surprised that Covid-19 isn't being blamed for Global Warming aka Climate Change!  Afterall it has blown plastic use through the roof and petroleum use.

 

You are such an idiot.

You don't think that Covid running amok would cause a bigger disruption to world economies?

Think about it.

Hospitals over run. "normal" patients unable to access timely treatment.

Small business short of staff either taking time off to care for their elderly parents or being ill themselves.

Big business ditto.

and that's just a fraction of the disruption when everyone is getting sick to one degree or another.

Then there's the long recovery period for those that are quite ill.

then there's the disruptions to supply chains when transport workers and others can't do their jobs.

There's the cost of general disruption to employers and employment when people are losing income and discretionary spending is cut.

Our economy is ticking over but even with almost zero cases here, people are not spending on small things like having windows cleaned. thats 3 people in a small business out of work. 3 families tightening up.

If 3% of people die from this, their death affects another 10%? ability to work? impoverishes more families, a family with one wage down can't spend.

It's convenient to think that old people are the most affected but they do generate employment.

the others that die are breadwinners.

 

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10 hours ago, dorydude said:

The rushed vaccine we are being pressured to have will most likely be useless against next seasons flu.

Will there be any thing else Doctor?

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19 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

You are such an idiot.

You don't think that Covid running amok would cause a bigger disruption to world economies?

Think about it.

Hospitals over run. "normal" patients unable to access timely treatment.

Small business short of staff either taking time off to care for their elderly parents or being ill themselves.

Big business ditto.

and that's just a fraction of the disruption when everyone is getting sick to one degree or another.

Then there's the long recovery period for those that are quite ill.

then there's the disruptions to supply chains when transport workers and others can't do their jobs.

There's the cost of general disruption to employers and employment when people are losing income and discretionary spending is cut.

Our economy is ticking over but even with almost zero cases here, people are not spending on small things like having windows cleaned. thats 3 people in a small business out of work. 3 families tightening up.

If 3% of people die from this, their death affects another 10%? ability to work? impoverishes more families, a family with one wage down can't spend.

It's convenient to think that old people are the most affected but they do generate employment.

the others that die are breadwinners.

 

Hospitals are over run all the time. US hospitals are mostly "for profit" so don't carry much excess capacity. In the UK, there are half the number of hospital beds there were 10 years ago.

It doesn't take much to over run those systems.

Covid 19 is virtually harmless to the young and healthy. Locking them up was idiotic.

 

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4 minutes ago, dorydude said:

Hospitals are over run all the time. US hospitals are mostly "for profit" so don't carry much excess capacity. In the UK, there are half the number of hospital beds there were 10 years ago.

It doesn't take much to over run those systems.

Covid 19 is virtually harmless to the young and healthy. Locking them up was idiotic.

 

OK, link me to the last time any hospital anywhere in the UK or USA was having to put up tents in car parks.

"Covid 19 is virtually harmless to the young and healthy. Locking them up was idiotic."

I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to someone that cannot even comprehend that when "infected, young and healthy" Sally or Pete, go to work with Gloria with a pacemaker, or visit aunty Joan that works in a chook factory, or works on a desk in a public face to face position. That this is all hunky dory.

You're an idiot.

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9 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

OK, link me to the last time any hospital anywhere in the UK or USA was having to put up tents in car parks.

Fuck.. couldn't you make it a bit harder???

https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/

 

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-flu-demand-20180116-htmlstory.html

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/24/winter-flu-crisis-hospitals-overstretched

 

It happens all the fucking time!!

Health systems should have been well prepared for covid.

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27 minutes ago, dorydude said:

i don't see this in your links

Letter from Spain: Arco exhibition centre is now a coronavirus hospital |  The Art Newspaper

http://prod-upp-image-read.ft.com/f8362cb4-62fb-11ea-abcc-910c5b38d9ed

Bah, you're a moron.

 

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4 hours ago, dorydude said:

Hospitals are over run all the time. US hospitals are mostly "for profit" so don't carry much excess capacity. In the UK, there are half the number of hospital beds there were 10 years ago.

It doesn't take much to over run those systems.

Covid 19 is virtually harmless to the young and healthy. Locking them up was idiotic.

 

You have to be astonishingly stupid to believe these two statements. Hospitals over run "all the time"? When the fuck was the last time?

And Covid-19 is statistically less likely to kill young healthy people (obese, or diabetic, or smokers, another story) but it kills enought o be significant AND it often leaves long term organ damage. Common new syndrome, there are probably around a million USAnians who cannot drink alcohol because they have 'covid liver' and it seems likely that this will be a lifetime condition for them. Heart damage, lung damage, similar.

If you had a jar with 10,000 jellybeans in it, and 3 or 4 of them would kill you, and 8 or 9 of them would leave you with lifelong heart damage, lung damage, etc, how many would you eat?

- DSK

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

You have to be astonishingly stupid to believe these two statements. Hospitals over run "all the time"? When the fuck was the last time?

And Covid-19 is statistically less likely to kill young healthy people (obese, or diabetic, or smokers, another story) but it kills enought o be significant AND it often leaves long term organ damage. Common new syndrome, there are probably around a million USAnians who cannot drink alcohol because they have 'covid liver' and it seems likely that this will be a lifetime condition for them. Heart damage, lung damage, similar.

If you had a jar with 10,000 jellybeans in it, and 3 or 4 of them would kill you, and 8 or 9 of them would leave you with lifelong heart damage, lung damage, etc, how many would you eat?

- DSK

Last time was 2017 -2018 as in the links I posted.

Seasonal flu does what you describe every year - and has always done - and will continue to do it.

Your jellybean analogy is stupid. Life isn't a choice, and quite often death isn't either. There a whole bunch of things out there that can knock you over and flu is one of them. Many things we do in life carry a risk. Do you drive a car? Go out in boats? Cross roads? All risky and potentially fatal.

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6 minutes ago, dorydude said:

Last time was 2017 -2018 as in the links I posted.

Seasonal flu does what you describe every year - and has always done - and will continue to do it.

Your jellybean analogy is stupid....

Yeah? Seasonal flu made metro hospitals rent refrigerated truck to store the corpses, and open triage centers in the parking lot?

Your problem is that you're full of shit. I suggest that you stop listening to whomever is pumping you full of it.

My jellybean analogy is very simple statistics, and breaks down the choice of risks easily and clearly. Don't like it? Then you -should- be in favor of avoiding being forced by poor leadership to eat a jellybean from the jar.

- DSK

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On 3/16/2021 at 7:22 PM, Kate short for Bob said:

There is more evidence supporting Covid-19 non reinfection than supporting the vaccines.

The Covid vaccines do indeed help prevent infection of Covid in very high percentages.  In cases they don't, they are proven to lower the risks of serious complications developing.  Long term data doesn't exist because it can't.  yet.

We already know reinfection is happening.  The BMJ has published on it.  But no work is being done on it right now.  Because the numbers aren't high, because they can't be.  Yet.

So both halves of your statement are highly suspect.

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33 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Your problem is that you're full of shit.

^^^ that and my guess is that he's a dude with some real authority issues. "Oppositional disorder."

What he needs is to go perform some volunteer work, and maybe gain some firsthand life experience that can help  temper his doctorate in google bullshit.

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47 minutes ago, dorydude said:

Last time was 2017 -2018 as in the links I posted.

Seasonal flu does what you describe every year - and has always done - and will continue to do it.

No.  Not even CLOSE to comparable on the scales between the two years.  You are being disingenuous.  At best.

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51 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Your problem is that you're full of shit.

^^^ that and my guess is that he's a dude with some real authority issues. "Oppositional disorder."

What he needs is to go perform some volunteer work, and maybe gain some firsthand life experience that can help  temper his doctorate in google bullshit.

Volunteer work in something that you normally would not experience is a great way to broaden horizons /gain understanding. Not for the faint of heart!

You could be right about "oppositional disorder" too, we all have had the experience of sailing with a crew person whose response to any word from the skipper was to argue that the boat -should- do something else.

A guaranteed bad time to be had by all, including them. Why the fuck do they do it?

- DSK

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Seasonal flu made metro hospitals rent refrigerated truck to store the corpses,

Lockdown policies caused that problem not the number of deaths. 

I recall researching the numbers for El Paso when the news media were going hysterical with pictures of refrigerated containers and unnamed source quotes.

The actual number for a brief period was only 10-15% above normal and well within capacity of the systems that manage deaths.

However all along the chain Government restrictions were impeding the process.  The Coroner had their output significantly reduced, local funeral homes had more than halved their throughput and the bereaved families were holding off having funerals because the restrictions prevented them from attending.  End result a backlog of bodies to process in a system that had managed similar numbers in previous years.

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1 hour ago, Grrr... said:

No.  Not even CLOSE to comparable on the scales between the two years.  You are being disingenuous.  At best.

If you are referring to the NHS in the UK a seasonal flu crisis has occurred every year for the past 11 years at least.  There is an image online that shows a collection of front page newspaper headlines for each of those years.

The problem has got worse because bed numbers relative to population has declined as the population has increased.  Extenuating that has been the aging of the population with the number of people in the vulnerable age group growing at a faster rate than the population overall.

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3 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Equally you can't say that reinfection occurs at a significant level because in nearly 14 months there have been very very few proven cases.  

Kate/Bob is making a lot of sense.

And from a pure theory point of view, if natural reinfection was occurring at a high rate then your confidence in the vaccines should also be lessened because, at the most basic level, all any vaccine does is mimic the infection to induce your body's own immune response... which hopefully lasts for a while.

Because the vaccines do appear to be working in the short and medium term, I think its safe to assume that natural reinfection of people who recovered is likely very low.  (aside from the potential dangers of new strains but the vaccines might not be effective against such new strains ether).

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6 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-people-die-flu/

Covid killed 8x more than the worst recent flu season. But they won't be missed, right? 

From the same article:

According to the CDC, “only counting deaths where influenza was recorded on a death certificate would be a gross underestimation of influenza’s true impact.”

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2 hours ago, Tharsheblows said:

Kate/Bob is making a lot of sense.

...

Kate/Bob is Wofsey, the UnaPoster trailer-park science-y guy

If you think he makes sense, your momma should smack the foolishness out of you

- DSK

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

From the same article:

According to the CDC, “only counting deaths where influenza was recorded on a death certificate would be a gross underestimation of influenza’s true impact.”

And that means the EXACT same thing as "influenza killed >500,000 USAnians this year" right?

Dumbass

- DSK

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-people-die-flu/

Covid killed 8x more than the worst recent flu season. But they won't be missed, right? 

Covid has killed a whole lot less people than that Asian flu or Hong Kong flu, yet the world wasn't closed down for those ones.

It all depends where you set the benchmark.

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yeah? Seasonal flu made metro hospitals rent refrigerated truck to store the corpses, and open triage centers in the parking lot?

Your problem is that you're full of shit. I suggest that you stop listening to whomever is pumping you full of it.

My jellybean analogy is very simple statistics, and breaks down the choice of risks easily and clearly. Don't like it? Then you -should- be in favor of avoiding being forced by poor leadership to eat a jellybean from the jar.

- DSK

Did you even read the links I posted?

 

Here's a new one:

https://www.statnews.com/2018/01/15/flu-hospital-pandemics/

Yes, tents in carparks for overflow of patients. This is in your allegedly"mild " year.

From 2014..

https://www.daytondailynews.com/lifestyles/health/local-hospitals-ask-flu-patients-stay-away/I5jeXotxyNmHmZDIxgGHgI/

BTW, the "refrigerated trucks for corpses" was sensationalist reporting to ramp up the fear factors.

Think about it - funeral homes were refusing to take bodies for fear of the "deadly disease" and lockdown restrictions meant that no one could have funeral services anyway.

Is it any surprise that morgues required extra storage? People were still dying at around the same rate in hospitals...but they weren't leaving.

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12 minutes ago, dorydude said:

Covid has killed a whole lot less people than that Asian flu or Hong Kong flu, yet the world wasn't closed down for those ones.

It all depends where you set the benchmark.

It all depends on whether you believe actual medical scientists, or the same bullshitters who said it was going to magically disappear, and could be cured by pool cleaning chemicals.

 

2 minutes ago, dorydude said:

Did you even read the links I posted?

Not really, a brief glance at most.

Of the 3 main flu epidemics in the last ~century, the "Spanish" flu (which should really be called the "Fort Riley Kansas Flu") killed FAR FAR more people in successive waves, further waves striking after people thought it was over, for almost 3 years.

They did not have the medical treatment we have, nor vaccines for any virus at that point, and SARS-2/CoviD-19 has not run it's course.

To say that the flu is deadlier than CoviD-19 is to be either stupid as fuck or to deliberately lie.

Which is it?

- DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

It all depends on whether you believe actual medical scientists, or the same bullshitters who said it was going to magically disappear, and could be cured by pool cleaning chemicals.

 

Not really, a brief glance at most.

Of the 3 main flu epidemics in the last ~century, the "Spanish" flu (which should really be called the "Fort Riley Kansas Flu") killed FAR FAR more people in successive waves, further waves striking after people thought it was over, for almost 3 years.

They did not have the medical treatment we have, nor vaccines for any virus at that point, and SARS-2/CoviD-19 has not run it's course.

To say that the flu is deadlier than CoviD-19 is to be either stupid as fuck or to deliberately lie.

Which is it?

- DSK

Uhh , Covid 19 is a coronavirus. It is flu.

Both the Asian flu and Hong Kong flu were more deadly than Covid-19 has been so far.

If you bother to read the links I posted you will see that seasonal flu easily overwhelms hospitals on a regular basis. Tents in carparks, staff working ridiculous hours etc are not unusual.

The difference is that Covid-19 has had a very good PR department on its side.

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1 hour ago, dorydude said:

Uhh , Covid 19 is a coronavirus. It is flu.

Both the Asian flu and Hong Kong flu were more deadly than Covid-19 has been so far.

If you bother to read the links I posted you will see that seasonal flu easily overwhelms hospitals on a regular basis. Tents in carparks, staff working ridiculous hours etc are not unusual.

The difference is that Covid-19 has had a very good PR department on its side.

Please feel free to post when the flu has killed over 540,000 Americans in one year in recent history. Start anytime.

 

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

To say that the flu is deadlier than CoviD-19 is to be either stupid as fuck or to deliberately lie.

The CDC official IFR estimates indicate that for those under the age of 64 Covid-19 is substantially less deadly than Influenza.  It is only in the age groups 75 and above that Covid-19 is significantly more deadly than the flu particularly if you have commodities such as obesity and diabetes. 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

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28 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Please feel free to post when the flu has killed over 540,000 Americans in one year in recent history. Start anytime.

 

I guess it depends how you count them.

With the earlier (Asian and Hong Kong) outbreaks, I'm pretty sure they didn't count people who had a positive coronavirus test in the previous 28 days as flu deaths.

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4 minutes ago, dorydude said:

I guess it depends how you count them.

With the earlier (Asian and Hong Kong) outbreaks, I'm pretty sure they didn't count people who had a positive coronavirus test in the previous 28 days as flu deaths.

You made the claim now back it up. just to be simple stick to the USA. Meanwhile explain how the influenza A and B virus is a coronavirus.  Accuracy is important. Go.

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I got my first Pfizer shot today, the next one will be on April 12.

I expect to be sailing with the club on May 1st and back in my yoga class at the same time.

Dumb bastards who don't vaccines should have to wear a scarlet letter. 

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23 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

You made the claim now back it up. just to be simple stick to the USA. Meanwhile explain how the influenza A and B virus is a coronavirus.  Accuracy is important. Go.

Ok, you've got me there.. you are skating on thin ice when pedantry is your only tactic 

Yes, apparently Covid-19 is a different virus to influenza, although the common cold is a coronavirus.

However Covid-19 and influenza have the same symptoms, same transmission methods and affect our bodies in the same way.

They are so similar you need a test to tell which one you have.

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Just now, hasher said:

I got my first Pfizer shot today, the next one will be on April 12.

I expect to be sailing with the club on May 1st and back in my yoga class at the same time.

Dumb bastards who don't vaccines should have to wear a scarlet letter. 

Why?

Vaccinated people can still catch and spread the virus.

Either you don't have much faith in the vaccine or you think that catching the virus from an unvaccinated person will somehow be different to catching it from a vaccinated person.

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1 minute ago, dorydude said:

Ok, you've got me there.. you are skating on thin ice when pedantry is your only tactic 

Yes, apparently Covid-19 is a different virus to influenza, although the common cold is a coronavirus.

However Covid-19 and influenza have the same symptoms, same transmission methods and affect our bodies in the same way.

They are so similar you need a test to tell which one you have.

The vast majority of intelligent thought in the world think a fart makes more sense than anything you have posted about Covid-19..

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1 minute ago, dorydude said:

Why?

Vaccinated people can still catch and spread the virus.

Either you don't have much faith in the vaccine or you think that catching the virus from an unvaccinated person will somehow be different to catching it from a vaccinated person.

Bullshit.  That is a known unknown.

I just think those who fall for lunatic beliefs rather than facts ought to warn others of their idiocy.

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4 minutes ago, dorydude said:

Ok, you've got me there.. you are skating on thin ice when pedantry is your only tactic 

Yes, apparently Covid-19 is a different virus to influenza, although the common cold is a coronavirus.

However Covid-19 and influenza have the same symptoms, same transmission methods and affect our bodies in the same way.

They are so similar you need a test to tell which one you have.

Thin ice? You post bullshit, I point it out and that is your reply? Let's just go down that road and state all illnesses are common and some are fatal, m'kay?  The biggest issue in dealing with covid-19 was this was the first that was transmitted asymptotically by those who hadn't developed symptoms and a large number who never had them.  I could go on but then you would have to concentrate and try to learn something rather than post RWNJ shit. 

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13 minutes ago, hasher said:

Bullshit.  That is a known unknown.

I just think those who fall for lunatic beliefs rather than facts ought to warn others of their idiocy.

I see people like you who are driving alone in their cars with a mask on.

I know there's a lot of people out there with anxiety issues. I know several. It's best to try not to project your problems onto others 

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You are still so wrong.

Go read about what every country in the world is doing.

Better yet, go find a bar packed with people who don't wear masks.  You'll probably not die. You might just get lucky.  Or you might be the cause of death of another person.  I'm sure they were going to die some day anyway.

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43 minutes ago, hasher said:

You are still so wrong.

Go read about what every country in the world is doing.

Better yet, go find a bar packed with people who don't wear masks.  You'll probably not die. You might just get lucky.  Or you might be the cause of death of another person.  I'm sure they were going to die some day anyway.

When you sail offshore or go for a walk or trip in wilderness areas you potentially put the lives of Coast Guard/ SAR people at risk if they have to rescue your sorry ass. I bet you would never give it a thought.

Likewise if you use you phone while driving, drive fast or tired or after a couple of drinks , you put other lives at risk.

It's part of life. Do you seriously want the government to be able to dictate the amount of risk we are allowed to take? Because that's what you are advocating 

You are behaving as though the vaccines 100% stop you from catching or passing on the virus.

They don't.

BTW, if they did I would almost certainly get my shot.

At the moment, the vaccine promises to  reduce the severity of symptoms by an unknown amount for an unknown period of time.

Getting the vaccine has nothing to do with protecting others 

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6 minutes ago, dorydude said:

When you sail offshore or go for a walk or trip in wilderness areas you potentially put the lives of Coast Guard/ SAR people at risk if they have to rescue your sorry ass. I bet you would never give it a thought.

Likewise if you use you phone while driving, drive fast or tired or after a couple of drinks , you put other lives at risk.

It's part of life. Do you seriously want the government to be able to dictate the amount of risk we are allowed to take? Because that's what you are advocating 

You are behaving as though the vaccines 100% stop you from catching or passing on the virus.

They don't.

BTW, if they did I would almost certainly get my shot.

Dorydude in many respects you are wasting your time.  The majority of the staunch Government control/NPI/lockdown proponents on here are in the Covid-19 very vulnerable group in terms of age and comorbidities.  They largely appear to be retired and fairly comfortable financially.  Their biggest concern is staying healthy enough to get the boat out again. 

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1 hour ago, dorydude said:

Ok, you've got me there.. you are skating on thin ice when pedantry is your only tactic 

....

"Pedantry" is also known as getting the actual science actually correct

I get the impression that you're not a Russian troll trying to kill Americans but that is the effect of your argumentative nonsense.

 

8 minutes ago, dorydude said:

.....

You are behaving as though the vaccines 100% stop you from catching or passing on the virus.

....

Not at all. They only stop you 100% from dying and 99% from needing to go to the hospital. But it reduces your ability to pass on the virus by ~ 50% and that's enough to drop it below pandemic-level transmissibility.

And the government is NOT limiting your ability to take risks for yourself.

The government is limiting your ability to place others at risk. Like speed limits, red lights, and sanitation laws

- DSK

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2 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Dorydude in many respects you are wasting your time.  The majority of the staunch Government control/NPI/lockdown proponents on here are in the Covid-19 very vulnerable group in terms of age and comorbidities.  They largely appear to be retired and fairly comfortable financially.  Their biggest concern is staying healthy enough to get the boat out again. 

Yes, perhaps so.

What pisses me off is they are pretending that getting the vaccine benefits others and therefore socially responsible when it is actually 100% a self-preservation decision.

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3 minutes ago, dorydude said:

Yes, perhaps so.

What pisses me off is they are pretending that getting the vaccine benefits others and therefore socially responsible when it is actually 100% a self-preservation decision.

I can't help think that if Covid-19 had the same age distribution affects as influenza that the whole pandemic management strategy would have been different i.e. if the mortality rate had been more even and skewed towards the very young as opposed to the old.

I don't think it is coincidental that decades of research into developing a pandemic management strategy was thrown out the window and those that made that decision were in the vulnerable age group.

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22 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

"Pedantry" is also known as getting the actual science actually correct

I get the impression that you're not a Russian troll trying to kill Americans but that is the effect of your argumentative nonsense.

 

Not at all. They only stop you 100% from dying and 99% from needing to go to the hospital. But it reduces your ability to pass on the virus by ~ 50% and that's enough to drop it below pandemic-level transmissibility.

And the government is NOT limiting your ability to take risks for yourself.

The government is limiting your ability to place others at risk. Like speed limits, red lights, and sanitation laws

- DSK

You percentages are fictitious.

The vaccine hasn't been around long enough to provide data from the community.

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2 hours ago, dorydude said:

I guess it depends how you count them.

With the earlier (Asian and Hong Kong) outbreaks, I'm pretty sure they didn't count people who had a positive coronavirus test in the previous 28 days as flu deaths.

Were they on ventilators for the 28 days?

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2 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Were they on ventilators for the 28 days?

You are being facetious.  With regard to previous pan/epidemics they didn't have universal PCR testing.  In my opinion too many pandemic management decisions are being made on the basis of case numbers only.  Particularly as over time the ratio of hospitalisations/deaths to cases has declined substantially.  

The economic carnage in the UK is going to be horrendous - the pandemic is costing over a $1 billion a day.  In the USA compare California with Florida.

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26 minutes ago, dorydude said:

You percentages are fictitious.

The vaccine hasn't been around long enough to provide data from the community.

??

At this point, well over 50 million people have been vaccinated

How much fucking data do you want? Are you just a dumbass that loves to argue and can't think of anything better than to say "Your percentages are fictitious" when they're not?

- DSK

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5 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

??

At this point, well over 50 million people have been vaccinated

How much fucking data do you want? Are you just a dumbass that loves to argue and can't think of anything better than to say "Your percentages are fictitious" when they're not?

- DSK

You need real data over a reasonable time frame .

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4 minutes ago, dorydude said:
13 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

.. How much fucking data do you want? Are you just a dumbass that loves to argue and can't think of anything better than to say "Your percentages are fictitious" when they're not?

 

You need real data over a reasonable time frame .

Oh yeah, that's far more reasonable than "your percentages are fictitious" after seeing results of >50 million vaccinations.

especially when the vaccine was released 3 months ago... after being tested on ~ 70,000 people (both Moderna and Pfizer) over the previous 6 months

You want perfection and you want it now! And you want it tested over the long term... without having to wait for it!

- DSK

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13 minutes ago, dorydude said:

You need real data over a reasonable time frame .

You need an education - the world's leading scientists have been working on vaccines for the coronavirus family for over a decade.  Try getting some data from reputable sources and I won't feel bad about pointing out your ignorance.

All the vaccines went thru months of trials, approved for emergency use since the data showed little to no negative effects and whatever risk there is is dwarfed by having millions die.

edit: I don't care if you get the vaccine or not, if you chose not to I do care if you put others at risk. So just don't be an asshole and wear a mask when around others.

edit2: Wonder why Trump and Melania got the vaccine in early January? I get why they didn't tell anyone but don't you wonder why?

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3 hours ago, d'ranger said:

You need an education - the world's leading scientists have been working on vaccines for the coronavirus family for over a decade.  Try getting some data from reputable sources and I won't feel bad about pointing out your ignorance.

All the vaccines went thru months of trials, approved for emergency use since the data showed little to no negative effects and whatever risk there is is dwarfed by having millions die.

edit: I don't care if you get the vaccine or not, if you chose not to I do care if you put others at risk. So just don't be an asshole and wear a mask when around others.

edit2: Wonder why Trump and Melania got the vaccine in early January? I get why they didn't tell anyone but don't you wonder why?

Yes the vaccine data comes from companies that stand to make $billions in profits from drugs which they cannot be legally held accountable for. These same companies have previously been found guilty of falsifying data and all manner of nasty practices 

The vaccines were tested on healthy subjects, most of whom were under 55 - in other words ,  very low risk groups.

Apparently you now don't care that I don't rush into getting a vaccine, but want me to wear a mask . Why?

You clearly have very little faith in the vaccine which you are hysterically touting. Surely, the people who want it can get it and the ones that don't won't.

 Just like the flu vaccine.

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Oh yeah, that's far more reasonable than "your percentages are fictitious" after seeing results of >50 million vaccinations.

especially when the vaccine was released 3 months ago... after being tested on ~ 70,000 people (both Moderna and Pfizer) over the previous 6 months

You want perfection and you want it now! And you want it tested over the long term... without having to wait for it!

- DSK

No, I am willing to wait - as I have pointed out.

You hysterical pro vaxxers are coming across as very selfish 

"I'm scared, so I'm getting vaccinated and you must too" you wail.

Well, I want to wait. BTW I have no desire to get sick or die. Due to my location, lifestyle, age and physical condition I consider my risk of catching and getting sick from Covid is infinitesimally small. Approaching zero in fact. I am prepared to cut back my traveling for the next 12 months and have no intention of going anywhere where there are community cases.

I have no need for the vaccine 

 

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5 hours ago, d'ranger said:
5 hours ago, dorydude said:

You need real data over a reasonable time frame .

You need an education -...

Mate good luck with that.

His views today remain the same. His first US mortality number was 2018/2019 flu season of 34k, then went to a bad flu season 80k then went to 100 - 200k worse case. Then dropped out of view.

Now resurfaced with still a bad flu calling 2 Asian epidemics 60 years ago and the Spanish Flu all the flu, with global mortality for the former up to 4m.

You are wasting your time with this arsehole just like KiwiKateShort other than occasional sports fishing for 'troll'.

IMG_20200412_202231.jpg

As for his vaccine, no hurry. Why?

He enjoys BOTH the protective blanket of virus suppression of <0.05% mortality, suppression that he doesn't support, PLUS (in his own words this time last year), ISN'T financially impacted by the economic impact of that virus suppression, in fact benefits I recall.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Mate good luck with that.

His views today remain the same. His first US mortality number was 2018/2019 flu season of 34k, then went to a bad flu season 80k then went to 100 - 200k worse case. Then dropped out of view.

Now resurfaced with still a bad flu calling 2 Asian epidemics 60 years ago and the Spanish Flu all the flu, with global mortality for the former up to 4m.

You are wasting your time with this arsehole just like KiwiKateShort other than occasional sports fishing for 'troll'.

IMG_20200412_202231.jpg

As for his vaccine, no hurry. Why?

He enjoys BOTH the protective blanket of virus suppression of <0.05% mortality, suppression that he doesn't support, PLUS (in his own words this time last year), ISN'T financially impacted by the economic impact of that virus suppression, in fact benefits I recall.

Yes,yes, Sparrow Dick. No one cares about your unhinged rants any more.

You don't seem to want to acknowledge that all your early predictions of doom were all wrong?

Strange that. My predictions were a lot closer to reality than yours.

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Why would you want a vaccine that firstly all makers have been given a pass card to any future problems so they have no liability issues. That in its self should ring alarm bells. Here is your new boat sir no we do not guarantee it will float. And secondly the WHO clearly state that unless you are at risk or very old you should not have it. This is little better than buying stuff of a street dealer that someone on the Internet says is OK. 

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14 minutes ago, dorydude said:

Yes,yes, Sparrow Dick. No one cares about your unhinged rants any more.

You don't seem to want to acknowledge that all your early predictions of doom were all wrong?

Quote one of my  "early predictions of doom" bet you fucking can't. I have never done predictions, I leave that to respected experts to do that and quote them as their opinions NOT mine. You quote whackjobs and construct shit..

17 minutes ago, dorydude said:

Strange that. My predictions were a lot closer to reality than yours.

Absolutely Professor Dory you have been on the money since Day 1. Being up to 20 times out with your US flu comparison a real fucking standout.

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22 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I guess you are going to quote again that bullshit research by a IT security/bitcoin expert Bevan?

You have me confused with someone else.

This the first time I write this word in my life... now.

Bitcoin.

PS. How are you going nominating that Imperial Study mortality projection for the US which you said was way out that I quoted?

Cat got your tongue?

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9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Quote one of my  "early predictions of doom" bet you fucking can't. I have never done predictions, I leave that to respected experts to do that and quote them as their opinions NOT mine. You quote whackjobs and construct shit..

Absolutely Professor Dory you have been on the money since Day 1. Being up to 20 times out with your US flu comparison a real fucking standout.

Right from the start of this you have been full "Chicken Little", shouting down anyone who didn't advocate draconian total lockdown measures to save the vulnerable.

My suggestion to protect the vulnerable and let the rest of us carry on with our lives was met with scorn 

 

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12 minutes ago, dorydude said:

Right from the start of this you have been full "Chicken Little", shouting down anyone who didn't advocate draconian total lockdown measures to save the vulnerable.

My suggestion to protect the vulnerable and let the rest of us carry on with our lives was met with scorn 

So you can't quote me. What a surprise.

10 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Quote one of my  "early predictions of doom" bet you fucking can't. I have never done predictions, ...

And for the record I have always apposed lockdowns unless they are evidence based. The beginning was no evidence so precautionary and it worked while knowledge was secured.

In fact where were you when I was saying snap lockdowns with no evidence base were bullshit?

You still subscribe to Covid only being a bad flu.

So piss off with your bullshitting claims.

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