Jump to content

GUNBOAT G4 FOILER CURRENT STATUS??


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, KC375 said:

What killed the interest in it?

Too big and expensive for a toy + too extreme for a cruising couple.  The early branding as a boat you could cruise wrecked credibility a bit as well - the capsize in St. Barts brought that fact to the table earlier than it would have been otherwise, but it's not like you don't know it ain't a cruising boat after 10 minutes at speed.   

Founder of the company turned his family world cruising boat into a brand and a boat line, because it appealed to lots and lots of people.  I think he thought his excitement in the G4 meant he he could do it again, but he misjudged the market (and had already run the business into the ground by the time it could have saved the brand, had it been a success).

I sailed on her quite a bit and she is a spectacular boat.

 

 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Too big and expensive for a toy + too extreme for a cruising couple. ....

 

Too much of one, not enough of another. That sounds like the problem some described the Gunboat 66 (or was it the 62). Too big for an owner operator, too small to bring along crew.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you got rid of the forward foils & just used daggers, would they still be functional as fast day boats? Set the rudders foils to a single setting & ignore them? How would the hull shape work for immersed sailing?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/14/2020 at 4:21 PM, RImike said:

Was the "G" in G4 related to Gunboat in something other than naming rights? 

 

Very little if anything came from the inhouse engineering at Gunboat NC.  Gunboat did a lot of the marketing.  I don't know how much input Peter had on the concept.  After the initial crash, the boat made it's way to Gunboat NC.  Initially, there was a small refit to repair some minor damage and to move the foils forward.  The electric motor and full battery bank were not replaced because by that point the original owner was out and soon they realized that there would be no quick buyers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
54 minutes ago, Foghorn77 said:

Back in the end of April early May it was in Wanchese.
It was for sale at the time.

G4 f.jpg

G4 side.jpg

Which is why I asked what their performance would be with no foils. Would that put it within the talent range of normal sailors? Shame to see it sitting there with no prep/care for storage.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, soma said:

I’m guessing that is on PJ’s property in Wanchese, with the Daedalus branding on it. 
 

i think it’d be a great boat in a foil assist configuration. Don’t HAVE to go full flight mode. it would be a great coastal cruiser/weekender. 

Yep, That's the ramp lot. Michael was brokering it.
Longy,
 I'd agree with SOMA on the foil assist curve board approach, but I'm not sure what the price is/was and between that and spartan accommodations could make it or break it for some folks. I expect the foiling aspect drives the price up but don't know for sure. I think the original owner that built it still owns it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am just curious if these boats have any afterlife, since the "full foiling weekender" concept has failed. If the price drop is enuff, cut the 'T' off the bottom of the existing boards & have a semi fast weekender. No, I am not in the market.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If it's still in NC, I would pay the equivalent of an offshore fishing charter to go for a ride with a group of 3 to 4 folks in 15knt breeze for a day. The thing is impractical as all hell but my god how cool.  I don't really do sportimg events or movies im theaters etc so that would be my year's worth of vice/entertainment.  Real shame for it to sit.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a great idea patmo...trouble is, as the boat is currently configured, you need a team of 4 elite sailors at >$80k each per year to run the thing. That gets pretty expensive, and if you break it, that's tough to replace. Break a sport fish, and there are at least have a dozen shops within 100miles that could work on it, generally.

Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW, the G4 was originally intended to have curvy daggerboards, then late in the build went to full foil mode.   Shed be a great weekend/week cruiser with curvy boards.   Performance wise, shed be better than most anything else cruising oriented.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, wyd said:

FWIW, the G4 was originally intended to have curvy daggerboards, then late in the build went to full foil mode.   Shed be a great weekend/week cruiser with curvy boards.   Performance wise, shed be better than most anything else cruising oriented.

Did they change the trunks? Or can one still rertofit curved?

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, samc99us said:

That's a great idea patmo...trouble is, as the boat is currently configured, you need a team of 4 elite sailors at >$80k each per year to run the thing. That gets pretty expensive, and if you break it, that's tough to replace. Break a sport fish, and there are at least have a dozen shops within 100miles that could work on it, generally.

OK, counter offer.  What about 4 slightly drunk average sailors with no insurance policies and 2 go pros?  Any takers?  Is this one setup particularly aggressively for racing or was it never as practical as they wanted it to be?  I'm picturing those videos of Peter J showing the cute foot pedal with the safe release and then the cocktails and the little grill/galley in the center.

On a serious note, I saw some cool vids by the holland composites channel showing a more automated flight system and the boat there were testing looked way more stable.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Holland Composites/DNA F4 is the same hull as the G4 with a new foil package, and automated flight control system.

The G4 had slightly less stable foils, but more importantly, required someone to constantly trim the foil package, along with the main, jib/Genoa, oh and someone had to drive the boat.

As to your average sailor comment, pass, that’s a $100k accident waiting to happen. Lots of thread posts on the original G4 capsize, but the bottom line is even with a released mainsail, the large roach Genoa can still take the boat over. So without automatic foil controls to prevent pitchpoling, and without automatic sheet releases on the jib and main, only way you’ll get me on that boat is with 3 other sailors that have lots of experience foiling smaller craft. Preferably, you bring a GC32 team along.

PJ’s dream of a mom and pop couple going out for a foiling joy ride is just that, a pipe dream, especially without high levels of automation.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/17/2020 at 2:55 PM, samc99us said:

As to your average sailor comment, pass, that’s a $100k accident waiting to happen.

Where is your sense of adventure!?

Ok enough BS about average joe's foiling million dollar stupid pipe dream and back to the original topic subject. Does anyone actually know for sure the the status of the Wanchese boat now.  @Foghorn77 mentioned it was there in the spring.

 

1. ownership/for saleness

2. foil control system package

 

Thanks @longy for bringing this thing back up I remember obsessing over it when it first was announced and had forgotten about it for a while.  Fun to dream. 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Been laying low on this thread but I see some friendlies chiming in. (Hi fellas)

The original owner is still the owner. He had to go to court to prove ownership during the bankruptcy which is unfortunate. He is a very nice guy who found himself in a bad situation. He is also older and not in tip-top shape so the boat is for sale but no idea how actively he is working on that. Last I knew it was for sale through Daedalus but that knowledge is over a year old.

The main foils are still manual up/down and hydraulically actuated in rake. They are controlled by toggle switches on newly installed pods in front of the helm. You can control each board individually from either side. There are string pots installed for limitation of rake but the work has not been done to have rake values up on the B&G's. (I am pretty sure this is a simple project for a good sparky) The rudders are on electric actuators and, again, controlled by toggle switches on the same pod and linked together so both side toggles control both rudders at the same time. From memory there is no string pot on the rudders but, on this boat, that is a gross tune adjustment. A hydraulic pump was installed in the starboard hull which is powered by the 48v battery bank through an inverter. There is no active flight control in any way.

The foot pedal hydraulic pumps for the mainsheet are gone. They had installed VERY basic hand pumps in Holland which have since been switched out. (Harken now, I believe) The plumbing for the mainsheet cylinder is still original so, personally, I would look into improving that which includes larger hose, fittings, removing all extraneous fittings or unions, all of the things you would do to make liquid flow faster. One of the biggest contributors to the capsize was the only release was at the helm which was addressed with a separate release valve with a pull cord  around the cockpit for access by anyone. The pedal thing was clever but asking the helm to stay locked in, steer the boat and be johnny on the spot with the panic button while tipping was, well, you saw it. (I was not on board during the capsize.)

I have moved the boat around quite a bit including Wanchese to Newport in 36 hours, Newport to Annapolis and Annapolis to the outer banks down the intercoastal and there is no reason you cannot sail the boat completely under control in any condition within reason. The foils can be set such that the boat will just not foil. Skimming mode is awesome and safe. If you were completely sold on not foiling you would look into modifying the existing boards into c-foils without the "J" and decreasing the size of the elevators on the rudders. The existing boards are as C as you can get them now without moving the lower bearing inboard in the hull. You could remove a ton of gear and weight by fixing the rake controls but the boards would be heavy as they are designed and built to handle the loads of foiling. Purpose built c-boards would most likely be half the weight.

If it were my boat I would complete the work that was started in Holland. They made some good changes but there is a lot of tightening up to be done as there was not a lot of money going into it. I would look into plumbing the mainsheet into the electric pump and having it push-button with multiple panic buttons throughout the cockpit. I would power up one of the cabin-house winches. I would keep the foils as is until I came to the conclusion that I was not foiling enough per hours of sailing to make it worthwhile. I would add to the battery bank in order to get more than an hour of motoring out of the ocean-volt or investigate dinosaur powered propulsion. I would absolutely, without a doubt, put my family on it, crush out to Nantucket in a third of the time and live aboard for extended weekends of maybe a week's vacation. This is all assuming I was in a VERY different tax bracket where a million dollar cat was the financial equivalent to my existing 2004 Volvo wagon. My guess is you could get this boat for $600k but would expect to spend upwards of $100k right away not including sails. (totally out of my ass there and I do not have a breakdown of those costs)

I get that the topic of this boat is very polarizing and a hot topic at times. That's fine but please don't make me regret posting. I think you all know what I mean.

Thanks.

Mark

 

  • Like 13
Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, markvannote said:

Been laying low on this thread but I see some friendlies chiming in. (Hi fellas)...

 

Hi Mark, and thanks so much for the comprehensive update.  One small correction: The boat was not the polarizing element...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Alan.

There were a lot of storylines there, a lot of which I was blissfully unaware of, which I will just leave in the past. Happy to be where I am now and sad that the G4 never saw it's potential as whatever the hell it could have been.

Mark

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, markvannote said:

Been laying low on this thread but I see some friendlies chiming in. (Hi fellas)

The original owner is still the owner. He had to go to court to prove ownership during the bankruptcy which is unfortunate. He is a very nice guy who found himself in a bad situation. He is also older and not in tip-top shape so the boat is for sale but no idea how actively he is working on that. Last I knew it was for sale through Daedalus but that knowledge is over a year old.

The main foils are still manual up/down and hydraulically actuated in rake. They are controlled by toggle switches on newly installed pods in front of the helm. You can control each board individually from either side. There are string pots installed for limitation of rake but the work has not been done to have rake values up on the B&G's. (I am pretty sure this is a simple project for a good sparky) The rudders are on electric actuators and, again, controlled by toggle switches on the same pod and linked together so both side toggles control both rudders at the same time. From memory there is no string pot on the rudders but, on this boat, that is a gross tune adjustment. A hydraulic pump was installed in the starboard hull which is powered by the 48v battery bank through an inverter. There is no active flight control in any way.

The foot pedal hydraulic pumps for the mainsheet are gone. They had installed VERY basic hand pumps in Holland which have since been switched out. (Harken now, I believe) The plumbing for the mainsheet cylinder is still original so, personally, I would look into improving that which includes larger hose, fittings, removing all extraneous fittings or unions, all of the things you would do to make liquid flow faster. One of the biggest contributors to the capsize was the only release was at the helm which was addressed with a separate release valve with a pull cord  around the cockpit for access by anyone. The pedal thing was clever but asking the helm to stay locked in, steer the boat and be johnny on the spot with the panic button while tipping was, well, you saw it. (I was not on board during the capsize.)

I have moved the boat around quite a bit including Wanchese to Newport in 36 hours, Newport to Annapolis and Annapolis to the outer banks down the intercoastal and there is no reason you cannot sail the boat completely under control in any condition within reason. The foils can be set such that the boat will just not foil. Skimming mode is awesome and safe. If you were completely sold on not foiling you would look into modifying the existing boards into c-foils without the "J" and decreasing the size of the elevators on the rudders. The existing boards are as C as you can get them now without moving the lower bearing inboard in the hull. You could remove a ton of gear and weight by fixing the rake controls but the boards would be heavy as they are designed and built to handle the loads of foiling. Purpose built c-boards would most likely be half the weight.

If it were my boat I would complete the work that was started in Holland. They made some good changes but there is a lot of tightening up to be done as there was not a lot of money going into it. I would look into plumbing the mainsheet into the electric pump and having it push-button with multiple panic buttons throughout the cockpit. I would power up one of the cabin-house winches. I would keep the foils as is until I came to the conclusion that I was not foiling enough per hours of sailing to make it worthwhile. I would add to the battery bank in order to get more than an hour of motoring out of the ocean-volt or investigate dinosaur powered propulsion. I would absolutely, without a doubt, put my family on it, crush out to Nantucket in a third of the time and live aboard for extended weekends of maybe a week's vacation. This is all assuming I was in a VERY different tax bracket where a million dollar cat was the financial equivalent to my existing 2004 Volvo wagon. My guess is you could get this boat for $600k but would expect to spend upwards of $100k right away not including sails. (totally out of my ass there and I do not have a breakdown of those costs)

I get that the topic of this boat is very polarizing and a hot topic at times. That's fine but please don't make me regret posting. I think you all know what I mean.

Thanks.

Mark

 

Great summary and just FYI but Daedalus  appears to be DOA.  Lots of chatter on the Farrier forums about nothing and nobody at the claimed physical location, the Farrier website being gone and even email addresses no longer active.  And at least in terms of the Farrier side of the Daedalus business there are people with money that want to buy things from them.  Shame (in terms of the Farrier heritage) but maybe not a shock given MR's history.  Seems to be a trend with ex GB folks though I know at least one very good one. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey wyd and Mark,
Good to hear from both of you on this. Nice to hear personal knowledge instead of hearsay.
IIRC the main reason for the capsize was the dump valve was too small to allow for fast enough release. Mischa was on it in time but the valve was too slow. 
I still think it's a damn cool boat and hope someone picks it up and uses it. I heard that it is still in Wanchese but haven't seen it myself there since May as I've been laid up and unable to drive to go check.

Hope all is well with both of you,
Todd

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/20/2020 at 9:40 AM, markvannote said:

The original owner is still the owner.  He is a very nice guy...

 there is no reason you cannot sail the boat completely under control in any condition within reason. The foils can be set such that the boat will just not foil. Skimming mode is awesome and safe. 

Thank you for all the great info and a thoughtful and detailed post.

I like what I'm hearing.  Nice guy, safe boat, needs bodies to go sailing...

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/20/2020 at 9:40 AM, markvannote said:

expect to spend upwards of $100k right away not including sails. (totally out of my ass there and I do not have a breakdown of those costs)

Does that mean that the boat does not have sails currently?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark knows his Sh^& about the G4 from the hands on perspective.  I just saw her on Friday, still there.  Evidently awaiting shipment to the owner.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/25/2020 at 12:16 PM, wyd said:

Mark knows his Sh^& about the G4 from the hands on perspective.  I just saw her on Friday, still there.  Evidently awaiting shipment to the owner.

You, the wife and the boys could have a lot of fun with that both in the Chesapeake and the GLs.  Heck you could cruise it back and forth!  Come on; you know you want to...  :ph34r:

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/20/2020 at 10:52 AM, Wess said:

Great summary and just FYI but Daedalus  appears to be DOA.  Lots of chatter on the Farrier forums about nothing and nobody at the claimed physical location, the Farrier website being gone and even email addresses no longer active.  And at least in terms of the Farrier side of the Daedalus business there are people with money that want to buy things from them.  Shame (in terms of the Farrier heritage) but maybe not a shock given MR's history.  Seems to be a trend with ex GB folks though I know at least one very good one. 

This article further hints at Daedalus being DOA: https://www.kineticcatamarans.com/news/jan-rossa-joins-kinetic-catamarans

Link to post
Share on other sites

The F-boat forums has some info but even Rob has gone silent which sort of speaks volumes.  Shame for folks with half finished boats that can't get beams or owners who have no place to go for support.  Buyer beware.  Sucks for the segment.  Holding our hope for Rapido.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Boat building, the land of broken dreams.

Back in the day...before the net, amazon, and early in the days of Borders and Chapters...my business strategy prof used some industries to illustrate fundamentally bad structures...Book sellers, and boat building led the list...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah i hope it get's a new life.... I would at $200,000aud

We built two family boats back in the day, a Cole 46ft mono (Traditional Yachts) and a Corsair 36 Cat in brisbane... both builds went broke half way through but knowing the industry we always owned our boat and paid in stages .... still a huge hassle but never a total loss...

Link to post
Share on other sites

I pity the fool that sends any money to those... uh... well...

Lets just say I can not for the life of me imagine WTF Ian was thinking in selling these people.   What a great heritage thrown into the trash.  Have yet to hear a single customer have anything good to say about them and lots had lots of bad experiences/impressions. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Wess said:

I pity the fool that sends any money to those... uh... well...

Lets just say I can not for the life of me imagine WTF Ian was thinking in selling these people.   What a great heritage thrown into the trash.  Have yet to hear a single customer have anything good to say about them and lots had lots of bad experiences/impressions. 

Well, at least they’re consistent!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...
On 1/18/2021 at 10:46 PM, Rasputin22 said:

That is a sad sight... 

But thanks for the update.

BTW, what is that Newick looking ama and two beam aka just hiding out of sight to the right? 

It looks like a Newick for sure. I think the owner of a nearby boatshop, Blackwell boats, owns it but not sure. It's been there for years, but fresh on the stands in that lot.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/16/2020 at 12:31 PM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

who the fuck names their boat Kon Tiki?  only Thor gets to use that name..

correct

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hobie17li said:

looks like a Newick Val 30' . there were several versions but that looks like original center cockpit

with small fore and aft cabins

That does look like the original Val with the two akas. Wonder how long it has been lost in the Outer Banks?

Hey Foghorn, if you are in the area, could you have a look and get the story on both the cat and tri at Blackwell? I confirmed the tri on google maps

image.thumb.png.7d5c396bcb6b79af0762ab244f662d79.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

That does look like the original Val with the two akas. Wonder how long it has been lost in the Outer Banks?

Hey Foghorn, if you are in the area, could you have a look and get the story on both the cat and tri at Blackwell? I confirmed the tri on google maps

image.thumb.png.7d5c396bcb6b79af0762ab244f662d79.png

It has been here many years. Sat pulled up in the marsh behind his shop for a while. If I recall he is/was a sailor as well which is an oddity down here. If it wasn't for the hurricane/haulout issue I would have looked into acquiring it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/18/2021 at 7:41 PM, Foghorn77 said:

As of three weeks ago, it's still in Wanchese (with a bit of a canted rig).

PXL_20201228_222258480.jpg

What's it doing in the water!?  That's exciting.  I'm still trying to get a ride in this thing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/23/2021 at 4:48 PM, Rasputin22 said:

That does look like the original Val with the two akas. Wonder how long it has been lost in the Outer Banks?

Hey Foghorn, if you are in the area, could you have a look and get the story on both the cat and tri at Blackwell? I confirmed the tri on google maps

image.thumb.png.7d5c396bcb6b79af0762ab244f662d79.png

Here's a pic of the tri. G4 is still in the water as well.

Newick.thumb.jpg.246199dda7b85a83156d629c4f44be1a.jpg

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 months later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...