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Jules Verne Trophy 2020


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Okay, so Gitana and sodebo are going for sub 40 days later this year. Sodebo start their standby on October 15th. Is there anybody else going for it or just them two? 

It's going to be busy in the Southern Ocean ocean this year. 2020/21 is definitely going to be one for the ages with sub 70 days being spoken of for the VG and the first Jules Verne attempts for the foiling monsters. Better get the popcorn out. 

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I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's just Gitana and Sodebo. The new Actual Leader (old MACIF) is planning on the Brest Oceans race, and Spindrift hasn't announced anything that I have been able to find. 

Will be awesome to see these two boats take a crack at it. 

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2 hours ago, ronnie_simpson said:

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's just Gitana and Sodebo. The new Actual Leader (old MACIF) is planning on the Brest Oceans race, and Spindrift hasn't announced anything that I have been able to find. 

Will be awesome to see these two boats take a crack at it. 

I wonder what time a crewed Actual Leader could do RTW, it did 41 days solo...

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Man these things are amazing - I really hope the media output on the JV attempts is good as this should be awesome to follow.

Also, I thought Spindrift were also on standby for JV attempt?? You'd think they'd need to get away first to have any chance of laying claim to a new record, even if it is only for a week or so until the Ultimes go round....

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Ultim news mentions a major refit going on, for next year ... :

Quote

Spindrift 2 gros refit

28/08/2020

 

Alors ors que le Spindrift racing va débuter sa saison en compétition sur le tout nouveau TF35 en Suisse ce week-end, après quelques semaines d'entraînements à La Trinité, Dona Bertarelli, a publié une vidéo annonçant une grosse annonce la semaine prochaine à propos du maxi trimaran Spindrift 2.

 

Il faut rappelé que le bruit a courru en fin d'année 2019 qu'il avait été vendu et partirait au US, finalement c'est le MOD70 Spindrift qui à pris le large après des années de stockage à St Philibert.

 

Du coup gros refit pour Spindrift 2 et des innovations. Rien de plus, il faudra attendre la semaine prochaine. Spindrift 2 est en chantier chez Multiplast depuis le 4 juin dernier.

 

Que peut on voir sur la vidéo ? Le trimaran à été complètement désarmé. Tout semble démonté, jusqu'à la "cabane". Il ne reste que la structure. On visionne aussi une grande pièce en composite qui pourrait bien être un nouveau toit d'une nouveau cockpit. Un cockpit qui semblerait pour le coup plus grand que le précédant.

 

Remise à l'eau au printemps prochain avec un nouveau programme ! A suivre...

https://www.ultimboat.com/ultime-news-11-c9pv

(no direct links to news articles, a bit strange ...)

And could not find the video from Dona Bertarelli the news bit is mentioning

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Cammas Caudrelier interview below :

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/course-au-large/trophee-jules-verne/trophee-jules-verne-franck-cammas-charles-caudrelier-on-peut-gagner-deux-jours-sur-le-record-c6d88784-0260-11eb-8aea-bf617f149de0

They start their stand by on November 1st, and will be six on the boat including Yann Riou as media man, so two less than Sodebo/Coville.

Cammas also says that they would be happy to start in the same window as Sodebo, even if they don't intend to "push too hard".

Regarding the crew number, I guess the active foil stabilisation is also a major advantage to have less people on board.

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13 hours ago, yl75 said:

Cammas Caudrelier interview below :

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/course-au-large/trophee-jules-verne/trophee-jules-verne-franck-cammas-charles-caudrelier-on-peut-gagner-deux-jours-sur-le-record-c6d88784-0260-11eb-8aea-bf617f149de0

They start their stand by on November 1st, and will be six on the boat including Yann Riou as media man, so two less than Sodebo/Coville.

Cammas also says that they would be happy to start in the same window as Sodebo, even if they don't intend to "push too hard".

Regarding the crew number, I guess the active foil stabilisation is also a major advantage to have less people on board.

Best case scenario they're saying 'only' two days faster. Really shows how flipping fast Joyon went... and how lucky he was with the weather. 

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4 hours ago, Raptorsailor said:

Really shows how flipping fast Joyon went... and how lucky he was with the weather.  

Yeah, Joyon always seems lucky with the weather.  When he did the 74 day and the 57 day and the 40 day (without discussing the Atlantic sails) ... all lucky.  The streak of 800 mile days in the Indian and Pacific ... That must be what it is ... LUCK.

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lol......

Joyon is a multihull sailor extraordinaire.  

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I realise it's pretty fresh conditions in that Sodebo video but having that side access door by the helm open appears to turn the covered cockpit into a shower stall...

Compare that to the Gitana cockpit and I know which one I'd rather thrash around the world in...

 

Also it's interesting to here Gitana talk about minute gains from aero optimisation and then see the stack-pack on Sodebo flogging around

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58 minutes ago, NZK said:

I realise it's pretty fresh conditions in that Sodebo video but having that side access door by the helm open appears to turn the covered cockpit into a shower stall...

Compare that to the Gitana cockpit and I know which one I'd rather thrash around the world in...

 

Also it's interesting to here Gitana talk about minute gains from aero optimisation and then see the stack-pack on Sodebo flogging around

+1 that looks like a miserable ride . . . would not want to spend too long like that in Southern Ocean

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3 hours ago, yl75 said:

New sodebo vidéo :
And new Gitana one :

 

 

 

Refreshing to have a team openly giving numbers and technical infos about their progress in the high end of sailing. Of course competition is different between IMOCA, AC75 and Ultimes, but still nice to hear. I am also impressed by the way Caudrelier expresses himself on technical topics (not a first in this video), he really seems to know what he is talking about and it's not the case for all IMOCA skippers for instance (even within the top). Wonder if it doesn't help to provide better feedback or discipline onboard to keep boat tidy and efficient knowing the physics at play.

Also surprised they continue to mention beating the record by minutes or hours. Surely they should have a bit more margin on their predictions (in a good window) before starting such attempt. I would be surprised if the target is not around 38 days or so (5% amelioration, in the low end of Vendee Globe record progression).

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Agreed!

For the non  French speakers, I do not know if you get English sub-titles on the video above. So a few nuggets:

Adding the cloth on the back of the aft beam to make a better shape added 1.3 to 1.5 knots of boat speed.

They gained 15% on the aero drag between 2017 and 2020...

They change the shape and angle of attack of the aero fairing of the front beam; they added some structure and film below the boom to close the gap between the main sail and the roof/deck. They extended the roof aft to improve air flow over the main saill all the way to the leech.

And many other details.

The comparison with the flogging sail bags on Sodebo in the previous video is puzzling... Is Sodebo so far behind in the refinements of the boat???

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9 hours ago, JonRowe said:

Anyone else notice the `I` on the end of Gitana's name? Hinting at a new ultime to come?

I think you will find that this is Gitana 17

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11 hours ago, DtM said:

I think you will find that this is Gitana 17

Yes I'm aware of the previous boats, but they don't normally have an 'I' after the name, I guess a bad edit of 17 is more plausible though

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2 hours ago, DtM said:

See two of the four photos above.  Maybe the 7 was cut off.

It was the rendered animated logo, see: https://youtu.be/xQjzTVVxklQ?t=146 I don't recall ever seeing it with the 17, but I agree it would be weird to rebrand at this point.

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On 10/7/2020 at 1:50 PM, NZK said:

I realise it's pretty fresh conditions in that Sodebo video but having that side access door by the helm open appears to turn the covered cockpit into a shower stall...

Compare that to the Gitana cockpit and I know which one I'd rather thrash around the world in...

 

Also it's interesting to here Gitana talk about minute gains from aero optimisation and then see the stack-pack on Sodebo flogging around

It also has to do with Sodebo cockpit being in front of the mast, but I guess they have some ways (textile based or something) to at least partially close these openings

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looks like Sodebo has hit a UFO training today and is checking for damage.

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On 10/7/2020 at 1:00 PM, Laurent said:

The comparison with the flogging sail bags on Sodebo in the previous video is puzzling... Is Sodebo so far behind in the refinements of the boat???

Keep in mind the boom on Sodebo is a lot lower and behind the coach roof so the boom and sail bag are not in the air flow. There's a bit of turbulence shaking the bag but it doesn't look like that would cause much drag.

They also had a soft cover closing the gap under the boom from the start. They do have a fairing on the aft beam but it looks a lot smaller and probably not quite as effective, probably more gains to be had there than with boom...

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1 hour ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Do they trim those fairings to optimize righting moment?  

I don't believe they do, but Gitana 17 lengthen the chord of the fairing on the front beam and changed the "angle of attack", to reduce drag, if I understood well the last video posted here.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Relatively good news for Sodebo: the damage on their foil and daggerboard (see post # 29 and 30) is repairable in-house. Thomas Coville expect to be ready to start in November and they have decided to extend the start window to mid-January; so basically, they intend to go, no matter what...

 

 

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It just seems from the outside looking in that the three big programmes are bottomless money pits...... Breaking something like a board or rudder is another ?? days back to port still paying crew wages then the haul out and then there was 5-8 shore crew sorting it out and fixing (if fixable) then back out there and train...... 
I have a fare idea of the dollars and cents in a supermaxi like Commanche but these things with their relentless schedules, I'm sure are more $ than that....... And they do either a full build or re build every few years...... money money money...... I absolutely love them....

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4 hours ago, PIL66 - XL2 said:

It just seems from the outside looking in that the three big programmes are bottomless money pits...... Breaking something like a board or rudder is another ?? days back to port still paying crew wages then the haul out and then there was 5-8 shore crew sorting it out and fixing (if fixable) then back out there and train...... 
I have a fare idea of the dollars and cents in a supermaxi like Commanche but these things with their relentless schedules, I'm sure are more $ than that....... And they do either a full build or re build every few years...... money money money...... I absolutely love them....

From the outside I think they have an advantage of sorts in the way the French teams operate, they run as an company themselves with their own facilities and employees building the boat, maintaining the boat, with their locations in the boat building holy sites of France meaning they can tap into extra locals when needed. I'm not sure anywhere else could compete with that for scale. I guess Wild Oats would be the closest parallel in the monohull world, but they are not building a new boat every few years, did Commanche get her own yard when she was in the states?

I agree that theres some very large pits of money behind the ultimes, although Macif's withdrawal makes the case that perhaps not so bottom less...

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10 hours ago, JonRowe said:

From the outside I think they have an advantage of sorts in the way the French teams operate, they run as an company themselves with their own facilities and employees building the boat, maintaining the boat, with their locations in the boat building holy sites of France meaning they can tap into extra locals when needed. I'm not sure anywhere else could compete with that for scale. I guess Wild Oats would be the closest parallel in the monohull world, but they are not building a new boat every few years, did Commanche get her own yard when she was in the states?

I agree that theres some very large pits of money behind the ultimes, although Macif's withdrawal makes the case that perhaps not so bottom less...

Well, at the very least, Rothschild this isn't even a drop in the bucket for them. They estimate the family alone is worth a combined 350 billion, the bank is probably many many trillions. Who knows what the real numbers are but they're basically free to play with other people's money how they wish. This is like a millionaire using hundreds to light cigars. 

And no, Comanche didn't have her own yard like the ultimes pretty much have.

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On 10/22/2020 at 5:25 AM, PIL66 - XL2 said:

It just seems from the outside looking in that the three big programmes are bottomless money pits...... Breaking something like a board or rudder is another ?? days back to port still paying crew wages then the haul out and then there was 5-8 shore crew sorting it out and fixing (if fixable) then back out there and train...... 
I have a fare idea of the dollars and cents in a supermaxi like Commanche but these things with their relentless schedules, I'm sure are more $ than that....... And they do either a full build or re build every few years...... money money money...... I absolutely love them....

I would guess that the cost of an Ultime campaign is significantly less than Commanche (at least in her early years). 

The biggest portion of any fully pro campaign is the salary bill. Just the number of crew on Commanche was eye watering. 

Also berthing fees in Northern France are as cheap as anywhere else I have found in the world. 

I would estimate that they are spending less than a small VOR budget annually. Brunel and TTTOP would have been in the region of €8-9 million for the year. 

Happy to be proven wrong, if anyone has numbers. 

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54 minutes ago, Potter said:

I would guess that the cost of an Ultime campaign is significantly less than Commanche (at least in her early years). 

The biggest portion of any fully pro campaign is the salary bill. Just the number of crew on Commanche was eye watering. 

Also berthing fees in Northern France are as cheap as anywhere else I have found in the world. 

I would estimate that they are spending less than a small VOR budget annually. Brunel and TTTOP would have been in the region of € 8-9 million for the year. 

Happy to be proven wrong, if anyone has numbers. 

Berthing I'm sure isn't an issue, but what's the leasing costs in France for the huge buildings they keep them in? As far as I can tell neither Gitana nor Spindrift own the buildings they're in.

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Gitana has a base on La Base, the business "park" surrounding the old converted u-boat base in Lorient thats dedicated to the marine industry and home of many of Frances IMOCA teams

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12 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Gitana has a base on La Base, the business "park" surrounding the old converted u-boat base in Lorient thats dedicated to the marine industry and home of many of Frances IMOCA teams

Also home to many of the very cool multihulls.

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17 hours ago, JonRowe said:

Gitana has a base on La Base, the business "park" surrounding the old converted u-boat base in Lorient thats dedicated to the marine industry and home of many of Frances IMOCA teams

Had the privilege to ride our shitty bikes from a marina around the corner from LeBase underneath the Gitana platform and watch them step the mast...no issues us watching and even interrupted Seb doing selfies for a selfie hahah. Love that place and the frenchies!!!

50159C33-6FFB-4AE9-A5CC-597F235BA764.jpeg

9B609B58-437D-49D1-8882-F743D9978E04.jpeg

Edited by plugger
Useless up load...
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5 hours ago, tommmzzz said:

Isn't Seb Josse in la sable d'olonne with Corum? He left Gitana maybe 1.5-2 years ago now, must been an old pic?

Yeah super old pic. 2018 April ish...long gone now.  Was epic to watch the team prep. And the lack of care of two Aussies riding around watching. No safety fucks given!  Just doing their thing. The whole LeBase is such an epic hub for offshore racing- haven’t seen anything like it else where 

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13 hours ago, plugger said:

Yeah super old pic. 2018 April ish...long gone now.  Was epic to watch the team prep. And the lack of care of two Aussies riding around watching. No safety fucks given!  Just doing their thing. The whole LeBase is such an epic hub for offshore racing- haven’t seen anything like it else where 

Nice. I was there in September 2015 while a few of the 60's were finishing their initial launches. Lots of activity there with CLass 40's and mini's as well

20150914_111429.jpg

20150914_110714.jpg

20150917_130117.jpg

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14 hours ago, tommmzzz said:

Nice. I was there in September 2015 while a few of the 60's were finishing their initial launches. Lots of activity there with CLass 40's and mini's as well

20150914_111429.jpg

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Such an epic spot with so much activity!  We were berthed in Kernevel marina and I spied the big cranes and an even bigger object hanging mid air- hustled on our bikes to see them wetting the planform...soooo worth the heart rate to get there! 

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16 hours ago, plugger said:

Such an epic spot with so much activity!  We were berthed in Kernevel marina and I spied the big cranes and an even bigger object hanging mid air- hustled on our bikes to see them wetting the planform...soooo worth the heart rate to get there! 

Same, Kernevel Marina for a few weeks on a cruising Reichel Pugh 62

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  • 2 weeks later...

Good interview by Tip & Shaft with Charles of Edmond de Rothschild on their chances (and more)

some snips

Quote

Do you think you could fly the Jules Verne permanently?
We need 13-14 knots of wind to fly, so on a round-the-world trip you can often get them. This changes a lot of things, because with 15-16 knots of north-westerly wind, we are able to leave Brest, which was not possible before. The same goes up the Atlantic: if the wind is not too tight, we can be at 31 knots. I did statistical routing by running 6,000 routes over 15 years , even if it's completely theoretical, 30 to 40% of these routes beat Francis's record, I did not expect this at all. And if you choose your window, you increase your probabilities. Afterwards, these chances are reduced by all the damages that you can meet, you know that you will not be at 100% of the potential all around the world, so you divide them by two or three, but the fact of going much faster upwind and in light winds greatly increases the chances of breaking the record. 
 
And how many days do these roads beat the record?
10-15% (out of the 6,000) are under 38 days, 10% around 38-39 days, and 10-15% between 39 and 41. Now, Idec's performance is that they managed to take the boat at a breakneck pace from start to finish, they took risks, it's a very good record.Our challenge is there, in this rhythm . And of course in reliability, because we do not forget that we have not yet managed to do more than seven days without having technical problems on the appendages. On the Brest Atlantiques, it was not dramatic, but it weighed down our performance by 10-15%, and these 10-15%, we need to beat Francis Joyon's record 

gtrans link

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Gitana are now in Orange code :

http://www.gitana-team.com/fr/

And Cammas and Caudrlier were at the VG live FR, and said they are looking at starting on Wednesday.

(also saying it would be fun to go through the VG fleet, and that they would take advantage of all the ice satellite pics taken for the VG).

No news from Sodebo regarding this window AFAIK, still repairing from last OFNI damage maybe.

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34 minutes ago, Raptorsailor said:

Just goes to show how good the conditions need to be now to even attempt the record. 

Yeah, i think Francis sailed +35 knots most of the time after Cape of Good Hope, so to be able to beat the record, they have to do the first part perfectly.  

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Gitana yellow . ..  but . . .

Quote
Monday, November 23, 2020
The crew of the Maxi Edmond de Rothschild turns yellow
After a long remote weather briefing with the Marcel van Triest router, the crew of the Maxi Edmond de Rothschild gathered in full alongside Cyril Dardashti, the director of the five-arrow team, made the decision to switch to yellow code, with a possible departure in just over 24 hours. Although the weather models still refuse to signal an ideal window, Franck Cammas and Charles Caudrelier, the two skippers, want to give themselves the opportunity to conquer the Jules Verne Trophy and provoke their luck by cutting the imaginary line off Brest tomorrow, Tuesday, November 24, in the early evening.

Will you leave, won't leave?
This Monday, doubt persists and a lot of uncertainty remains. While all the conditions are in place to guarantee good conditions at the start with the prospect of reaching the equator in very honourable times, the South Atlantic remains less inclined for the time being to offer the ideal context to give free rein to a smooth descent in search of the low pressure systems of the southern seas. The fault of the Saint Helena high, which gives the forecasts a hard time and leaves the risk that in about ten days the favorable winds will escape the sails of the Maxi Edmond de Rothschild and slow him down in his hunt for the absolute speed record around the world sailing. On one model, it passes; on the other, it gets stuck.

http://www.gitana-team.com/fr/news_actu.aspx?id=1252

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Departure postponed for today but a new window targeted for Thursday!
Record hunting is not a bed of roses, but the many variables, which have inevitably been part and parcel of life for the Gitana Team and her crew since the start of standby, were known about by one and all before they decided to take on the Jules Verne Trophy. There are a great many expectations and the desire to see the six sailors of the Maxi Edmond de Rothschild setting sail is still intact, but the five-arrow stable’s weather cell is keeping a cool head to give itself every chance to beat the record of 40 days 23 hours and 30 minutes set by Francis Joyon and his team in 2017. The departure, which was still being envisaged yesterday, for late in the day this Tuesday 24 November is no longer a possibility, but the team remains on code yellow as another opportunity might well present itself on Thursday.

 

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25 minutes ago, ALL@SEA said:

" Thomas Coville and his 7 team mates will leave Lorient this Tuesday afternoon to head to Ouessant and start storming tonight

More info: https://bit.ly/3pWwooh "
Popped op on my facebook feed.

Thanks. "In consultation with the routing cell, headed from land by Jean-Luc Nélias."  Will be good to watch Nélias and his cohorts at work again.

Curious if Sodebo and  Gitana choose different start times. Seems like a pursuit race start, based on whatever low in the south they are eyeing.

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Here we go !!!!!!!!:)

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I haven't found it on their site yet, and the site looks like french only, and my french is terrible. :(

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I'm getting Sodebo tweets with crew pics leaving the dock...

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Very tight preparation timing for Sodebo. Following their "around the Atlantic" race and damage to the starboard foil and rudder, they JUST got the replacement parts in the boat, and they were waiting for some stronger winds in the past few days to put the foil under full load and hope that everything was fine.

They did this test this morning (Tuesday 24th), French time; and they are leaving La Trinité this afternoon to get to the starting line and cross it tonight...

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Gitana also went green on their site.
Time for the reminder that Gitana does have an EN version of the site. Switch in the upper right corner. Most of their videos are uploaded in both FR and EN versions or have subtitles.

Looks like they go with 6 incl. Yann Riou as media sailor?

Perhaps we get regadata plugin update. VG and the TJV.

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4 minutes ago, Chasm said:

Gitana also went green on their site.
Time for the reminder that Gitana does have an EN version of the site. Switch in the upper right corner. Most of their videos are uploaded in both FR and EN versions or have subtitles.

Looks like they go with 6 incl. Yann Riou as media sailor?

Perhaps we get regadata plugin update. VG and the TJV.

 

Yann gets to work this ride around.

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5 minutes? WAG, but the routers would want  the latest sat images of the lows in the SO.

Maybe they're looking at this one below NZ?

1490068030_ScreenShot2020-11-24at7_23_49PM.thumb.png.69802285db2ed3f1305c8dcf51847834.png

Nah. Too many unknowns, like dawn and cameras, and FR prime time.

Whatever, good to see each has a safety boat along for the ride. Best wingman evah

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