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Jules Verne Trophy 2020


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I flew a 747 for last 23 years of my career, when I retired my wife bought me a DJI drone as a gift, had to climb a tree to retrieve it the first day. My wife and daughters find this extremely hu

Very moving video... with "live" decision to give up... For a while they find the boat harder to steer, and even the autopilot makes mistakes. They discover a problem on the starboard rudder; The

FWIW I had the pleasure of getting to know Fossett pretty well at the time he was campaigning Stars and Stripes and trying to set the Chicago Mackinac Race record (which he did set the all time race r

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6 minutes ago, silvestert said:

Are they breaking their attempt? Negative VMG?

Right? WTF?!?

They have to gybe soon!

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1 minute ago, silvestert said:

Are they breaking their attempt? Negative VMG?

Looks to me like they’re getting miles west so they can gybe then have a nice simple few days of port tack sailing through the trades to the equator. 

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Article explains that they need westing in order to avoid turbulence caused by Madeira and Canaries, which would mess them up.  Anticipating movement of arriving High... a delicate balance.

 

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Interesting interaction with freighters since they are going twice as fast as most of them. When we encountered lots of freighters we were half as fast (on a good day. We found the freighters were really good at altering course just from AIS even before we could see them. Freighters would have no experience with encounters with a sailboat going so fast. Freighters and cruise ships seemed to go 14 to 22 knots. I would imagine the only vessels over 30 would be naval and only if they were in a bit of a hurry.

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On 1/10/2021 at 1:14 PM, crashtack said:

it usually isn't faster to go low enough to where you start dodging icebergs in the antarctic.

Help me out here: sailing less miles, at a higher average speed than in the past would not allow for a faster passage????

On 1/10/2021 at 5:08 PM, crashtack said:

 the exact numbers aren't really relevant to the point I was trying to make.

Yet, the point you were trying to make was irrelevant against factual numbers...

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They appear to have not a great VMG angle downwind compared to IDEC, but that was already seen in the previous tentative and Brest atlantic

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Does anyone have some data from previous attempt? Where were they last time compared to idec after 2-3 days?

IIRC at the moment they are at least 100 nm behind... but they should have some nice weather coming.

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51 minutes ago, silvestert said:

Does anyone have some data from previous attempt? Where were they last time compared to idec after 2-3 days?

IIRC at the moment they are at least 100 nm behind... but they should have some nice weather coming.

They were ahead.

And at the moment they're ahead http://www.gitana-team.com/

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1 hour ago, silvestert said:

I know they were ahead of Idec, but not ahead of their or Sodebos position at last attempt...

They were 10-20 miles ahead of Sodebo when they quit.

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1 hour ago, Bebmoumoute said:

 

More of this, please.   I love seeing the drone footage on these off-shore excursions.

I have always thought, though, that the simplest, cheapest, and probably least risky way to have aerial footage would be to set up a very small control kite with a cam on it.  They could use something like that for boat monitoring and ice/object spotting.

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2 hours ago, GauchoGreg said:

Working for me, now, too.

[aside] Was an issue when I used a bookmark to the EN site quite a bit earlier today. Loaded OK from a google search, then was able to access the EN side OK after a couple of tries.

Sounds like they're once again picked a "passage point" before they pull the trigger for advancing or returning. Even a return choice is a gain in more experience.

Quote

The weather situation that the crew of the flying maxi-trimaran have endured for the past 24 hours, namely dying winds which require a great deal of manoeuvring to constantly adapt the heading and point of sail to the variations in the strength and direction of the wind, is directly linked to this slot at the tail-end of the departure window.   “We sought to leave Ushant as late as possible in the weather window for two reasons. Firstly, to avoid the worst of the low-pressure system level with the Iberian peninsula and secondly, to benefit from a favourable weather sequence in the South Atlantic in order to hitch a ride with a low-pressure system rolling out of Latin America and heading down to the Southern Ocean. It is this passage point that is the main driver behind the timing of our departure.” However, the scenario has been clear since the start; this configuration could feature some disadvantages, the main one being the ridge of high pressure encroaching on Gitana 17’s route southwards

http://www.gitana-team.com/en/article/1276/at_the_gateway_to_the_trade_wind

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It looks like their equator crossing will get better once they get down there, but right now they're absolutely flying.

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Are they going to pull an "Alex" and thread the needle through the Cape Verde's?

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6 hours ago, TPG said:

It looks like their equator crossing will get better once they get down there, but right now they're absolutely flying.

Yes, if the forecast at +30hrs is accurate they should hardly slow down through the doldrums. Opportunity to gain some significant time over IDEC.

 

A74D3646-895B-4DDC-9870-4E240BBF9547.jpeg

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3 hours ago, jimmyuk81 said:

Yes, if the forecast at +30hrs is accurate they should hardly slow down through the doldrums. Opportunity to gain some significant time over IDEC.

 

A74D3646-895B-4DDC-9870-4E240BBF9547.jpeg

They have a shot at the equator record if that holds. They've got 34 hours to cover 1000 miles.

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On 1/10/2021 at 10:57 PM, Recidivist said:

Fossett was a typical arrogant, rich American arsehole.  He refused to pay the fees to the JV association, tried to beat them down to something like 10-20% of the asking.  He sailed anyway, boasting that he would bust the association's control of the record.  That didn't work - every attempt since has been through the JV gatekeepers, and Fossett's name doesn't appear in the lists, so he is the forgotten one and the JV association goes from strength to strength.  When on the return up the Atlantic it looked very likely they would beat the record time, Fossett tried to pay the fees (again, reduced IIRC) so he would be recognised as the holder of the JVT, but Lamazou (IIRC) told him to pound sand.  

My memory is fading, but wasn't the boat still called "Playstation" at the time?

I'm sure Fossett was a bit arrogant (earned frankly) and probably a bit cheap like many wealthy people, but if you believe the story here, the French are also at equal blame: https://www.yachtingworld.com/blogs/elaine-bunting/the-strange-story-of-the-jules-verne-trophy-4244

Frankly that gybes with most French experiences I've had,  there is a price for native french speakers and a different price for those they consider tourists.

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Cammas gives a few more details about the plan for the Doldrums. 36.5 kts average casually mentioned.

Quote

Franck Cammas shared his impressions with us: “We’ve had a bit of a long transition between Madeira and the trade wind, but since last night we’ve finally made it into the trade wind system and we’re going to have a good 24 hours of calmer sailing. Late tonight, we’ll enter the doldrums, a quite complex zone where we’ll have to do some manoeuvring. We’ll need to be patient I think, as you can end up in some wind holes. Unfortunately, I reckon we’ll attack that section late tonight or even in the early hours of the following day. It’s always a bit better and easier to negotiate it during the day as you can see the clouds coming and you can anticipate their arrival a little.” 

For now, the six men of Gitana Team are benefiting from a well-established NE’ly breeze in excess of 20 knots to pick up the pace. These conditions are particularly favourable for the 32-metre giant, which has managed to shake off the effects of the wind shadows created by the volcanic islands of Cape Verde and has since lengthened her stride. The average speed of 36.5 knots recorded in the last four hours bears witness to this.

more at http://www.gitana-team.com/en/article.aspx?id=1278

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8 hours ago, F18 Sailor said:

I'm sure Fossett was a bit arrogant (earned frankly) and probably a bit cheap like many wealthy people, but if you believe the story here, the French are also at equal blame: https://www.yachtingworld.com/blogs/elaine-bunting/the-strange-story-of-the-jules-verne-trophy-4244

Frankly that gybes with most French experiences I've had,  there is a price for native french speakers and a different price for those they consider tourists.

Wow! I'm glad I know that piece of history. What a weird world of politics. Seems like that could have been handled more equitably.

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1 hour ago, Russell Brown said:

Wow! I'm glad I know that piece of history. What a weird world of politics. Seems like that could have been handled more equitably.

I'm sure there are others who know the story far more intimately than my fading memory, but the way I recall it was that the fee was a set amount - that which Fossett was asked to pay.  Look at the others involved - Bruno Peyron and Olivier De Kersauson - giants of the French offshore multihull scene for many years.  Each many time competitors for the JVT. The JV Association decided to DISCOUNT the publicly promulgated fee for these 2 on the grounds of their massive contributions to the objects of the association.  Fossett had no grounds of entitlement for such treatment.  His churlishness (he could shake E30K out of his trousercuffs) says a lot about why he was reportedly asked for the money upfront.

Edit: This doesn't totally rule out the comment made by F18 sailor - I think it's entirely possible the Frenchies considered Fossett to be riff-raff and responded accordingly.

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25 minutes ago, Recidivist said:

I'm sure there are others who know the story far more intimately than my fading memory, but the way I recall it was that the fee was a set amount - that which Fossett was asked to pay.  Look at the others involved - Bruno Peyron and Olivier De Kersauson - giants of the French offshore multihull scene for many years.  Each many time competitors for the JVT. The JV Association decided to DISCOUNT the publicly promulgated fee for these 2 on the grounds of their massive contributions to the objects of the association.  Fossett had no grounds of entitlement for such treatment.  His churlishness (he could shake E30K out of his trousercuffs) says a lot about why he was reportedly asked for the money upfront.

Edit: This doesn't totally rule out the comment made by F18 sailor - I think it's entirely possible the Frenchies considered Fossett to be riff-raff and responded accordingly.

FWIW I had the pleasure of getting to know Fossett pretty well at the time he was campaigning Stars and Stripes and trying to set the Chicago Mackinac Race record (which he did set the all time race record and it still stands today in the WSSRC)  I was the Race Chairman for two of those years.  i ALWAYS found him to be a complete gentleman and he totally respected all of the race rules and requirements.  He always dealt with me directly and respectfully and not through surrogates and subordinates.  I had the privilege of talking with him at length after his solo around the world record attempt which ended in a crash into to the ocean between NZ and AUS from an altitude of about 36,000 ft.  Not long after that he tried again and succeeded.  to me he was tenacious, humble and highly driven and accomplished...and always gracious.  I also appreciated that he fully supported the event when he participated and when he set the record he came to the awards banquet to accept the trophy and participate in the event.  He came early and stayed late and socialized with the large group that was in attendance.  I can't say the same for lots (not all) of the other Rock Stars of the sport that have showed up, sneered at the locals and were too good to join the festivities.  We kept in touch for several years after he had moved on to Playstation and after his sailing endeavors had ended.  Amazing guy, mostly self funded, totally driven to push himself....and I miss him.  I gather that none of you actually knew him.

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8 minutes ago, REW said:

FWIW I had the pleasure of getting to know Fossett pretty well   <snip>   I gather that none of you actually knew him.

Well, I consider myself to have been properly put back into my proper station in life!  Thank you.

I never purported to know Steve Fossett - I was attempting to cast light on the situation of Fossett re the Jules Verne Trophy, and only that.

I will return now to the less important end of the room.  Thank you for the lesson. 

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Big slowdown, just 13kn on the last update. Hopefully just the doldrums being worse in reality than they look on the forecast, and not any issues...

Tweet below translated: “The beginnings of the doldrums in the sails of the Maxi Edmond de Rothschild. The odometer is 141.7 miles ahead of the 8 o'clock record.”

 

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2 hours ago, jimmyuk81 said:

Big slowdown, just 13kn on the last update. Hopefully just the doldrums being worse in reality than they look on the forecast, and not any issues...

Tweet below translated: “The beginnings of the doldrums in the sails of the Maxi Edmond de Rothschild. The odometer is 141.7 miles ahead of the 8 o'clock record.”

 

Given they didn't seem too worried in the video from an hour ago it seems they're just in a hole.

If you take a gander on windy.ty there's a TON of holes in their neighborhood and around 10kts of breeze.

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Down to 2.6 knots boatspeed. 
.3 knots vmg. 
-12.9 advance. 
hopefully the breeze fills in quickly!!!

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Obviously the window is not really what they expected, not sure what is the status regarding the South Atlantic though, they should be more open about that !

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On 1/13/2021 at 7:50 AM, jimmyuk81 said:

Yes, if the forecast at +30hrs is accurate they should hardly slow down through the doldrums. Opportunity to gain some significant time over IDEC.

I am so sorry to the entire Gitana team, clearly jinxed them with yesterday’s comment. :(

That’ll teach me not to just look at the macro forecast. 

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Anyone know with what frequency is their site and data updated?  Or is the speed real time?

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43 minutes ago, silvestert said:

Every hour, like one or two minutes before full hour. 

Thanks.  And wow a rough few hours for them.

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Yes, surprised they haven't turned back yet. The low they were anticipating over Brazil looks pretty weak.

Patience, they say

Quote

the men on the Maxi Edmond de Rothschild have been ensnared in the doldrums and it’s the light airs version with slow progress, which has been reserved for them. Faced with these weather hazards, which are completely unpredictable in this intertropical convergence zone, the only option is patience.

http://www.gitana-team.com/en/article/1280/braking_on_the_approach_to_the_equator

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56 minutes ago, DtM said:

This was supposed to be the part of the course where they would build a buffer over Idec.  Ouch

This is the boat that can recover 100 miles in hours though.

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Wow. The situation is really agonizing. 
We have seen Sodebos’ advantage vaporize in Indian Ocean, so I think they might pull the plug within next couple of hours. For sure if they will be significantly behind by the time they get to Equator. 
 

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1 hour ago, silvestert said:

Wow. The situation is really agonizing. 
We have seen Sodebos’ advantage vaporize in Indian Ocean, so I think they might pull the plug within next couple of hours. For sure if they will be significantly behind by the time they get to Equator. 
 

Especially as the La Nina weather pattern & low SSTs in the South Eastern Pacific appears to be disrupting the winds that normally prevail in southern latitudes

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4 hours ago, kaptah said:

Really nice low forming in +72h forecast but it seems unlikely that they are able to catch that. 

That's the one they were aiming at from the beginning I guess, if they miss it, not sure they will continue

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No hints of a restart: still looking ahead

Quote

Casting one’s mind forward to the next stage of the round the world and taking the positives from the situation are doubtless the best way to begin this 6th day of the Jules Verne Trophy record attempt. The equator, still nearly 150 miles away on a direct course, should be behind them today at which point a very different navigation awaits in the SE’ly trade wind on a course towards the Southern Ocean.     

http://www.gitana-team.com/en/article.aspx?id=1281&amp;type=actu

[aside] had to reload the page in FR to eventually get the EN version without triggering errors

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1 hour ago, yl75 said:

That's the one they were aiming at from the beginning I guess, if they miss it, not sure they will continue

1600ish 2000ish miles. Once they get of this hole, that's doable cracking off some 700 mile days. They need to be around 35S 25W by Sunday afternoon.

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20 minutes ago, TPG said:

1600ish 2000ish miles. Once they get of this hole, that's doable cracking off some 700 mile days. They need to be around 35S 25W by Sunday afternoon.

They are still at the northern hemisphere, thus 35S is at least 2100 nautical miles away, and sunday afternoon (FR) is just 2 days from now. They are not going to make 1050 Nm in 24 hours, neither is there any need to do so.

They'll catch up the low within next 96 hours at 40 South by averaging 600 Nm each day which is doable in the predicted wind.

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12 minutes ago, NotSoFast said:

They are still at the northern hemisphere, thus 35S is at least 2100 nautical miles away, and sunday afternoon (FR) is just 2 days from now. They are not going to make 1050 Nm in 24 hours, neither is there any need to do so.

They'll catch up the low within next 96 hours at 40 South by averaging 600 Nm each day which is doable in the predicted wind.

Not what I said but ok.

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57 minutes ago, TPG said:

Not what I said but ok.

You claimed They need to be around 35S 25W by Sunday afternoon, which would require 1050 Nm in 24 hours for 2 days, which is not going to happen.

Before that you said that's doable cracking off some 700 mile days. Which shows your math had a flaw, since 700 Nm each day is not enough for them to be 35S 25W even by late Sunday evening, not alone afternoon.

Lucky for them they don't need to be at 35S 25W by sunday to catch the NW winds in front of the low, monday will do just fine.

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" ... the crew of the Maxi Edmond de Rothschild crossed the equator this Friday 15 January at 14h48'32'' UTC, after 5 days 13 hours 14 minutes and 46 seconds at sea. Though this first passage time is a far cry from the outright record for this section, which has been held since 2019 by Spindrift Racing in a time of 4 days 19 hours 57 minutes ..."

IDEC's time was 5 days 18 hours 59 minutes.  L. Peyron's time in 2011 was 5 days 14 hours 55 minutes.

As I have said in previous posts, using IDEC, which was several hundred miles BEHIND the record pace at Cape of Good Hope, as a metric for the dive down the Atlantic is not the appropriate measure of progress.  You have to be a lot FASTER than IDEC at the Cape of Good Hope to compensate for their run in the Indian Ocean and Pacific  Gitana will pick up some miles over the next few days as IDEC was slow for a few days after they entered the South Atlantic on the way to the Cape of Good Hope.

After that, look out ...

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3 hours ago, stief said:

Spirit of both points was useful (thanks). Available info too uncertain for more precision IMHO.

Stief 2024!

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34 minutes ago, silvestert said:

Sad...

Does anyone recall what was the highest advantage of Sodebo?

Sad indeed, and so young (57)

Re advantages, quick skim of pg 3 and onwards might help. Found this on pg 2 

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On 12/5/2020 at 8:19 PM, Former MDR Vandal 1 said:

Sodebo are piling on some miles right now (as I write they are 525 nm ahead) … but Day 11 is when IDEC came alive are started putting up the unreal numbers highlighted below.

And they went hero to zero within couple of days... damn it is easy to be a couch sailor... ;)

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On 1/15/2021 at 7:51 AM, Former MDR Vandal 1 said:

" ... the crew of the Maxi Edmond de Rothschild crossed the equator this Friday 15 January at 14h48'32'' UTC, after 5 days 13 hours 14 minutes and 46 seconds at sea. Though this first passage time is a far cry from the outright record for this section, which has been held since 2019 by Spindrift Racing in a time of 4 days 19 hours 57 minutes ..."

IDEC's time was 5 days 18 hours 59 minutes.  L. Peyron's time in 2011 was 5 days 14 hours 55 minutes.

As I have said in previous posts, using IDEC, which was several hundred miles BEHIND the record pace at Cape of Good Hope, as a metric for the dive down the Atlantic is not the appropriate measure of progress.  You have to be a lot FASTER than IDEC at the Cape of Good Hope to compensate for their run in the Indian Ocean and Pacific  Gitana will pick up some miles over the next few days as IDEC was slow for a few days after they entered the South Atlantic on the way to the Cape of Good Hope.

After that, look out ...

Not really true.  They don't HAVE to be way ahead of IDEC.  You would be right if they did not have a faster boat.  Of course Idec had a great bunch of days ahead of where the boat is, now, but to think Gitana can't do better, with a MUCH newer and faster boat, is simply wrong.  It certainly would have taken the pressure off them if they did not have to match or beat Idec's performance in the coming week(s), but they certainly can do at least as well with a next generation boat capable of knocking off miles significantly faster than IDEC.

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1 hour ago, GauchoGreg said:

Not really true.  They don't HAVE to be way ahead of IDEC.  You would be right if they did not have a faster boat.  Of course Idec had a great bunch of days ahead of where the boat is, now, but to think Gitana can't do better, with a MUCH newer and faster boat, is simply wrong.  It certainly would have taken the pressure off them if they did not have to match or beat Idec's performance in the coming week(s), but they certainly can do at least as well with a next generation boat capable of knocking off miles significantly faster than IDEC.

Gitana has basically destroyed every current ultim in all conditions. I'm not sure they're overly worried as long as they get decent conditions.

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IDEC also had a great Northern Altantic back, that could be the major challenge (if they don't hit anything before, and that is a big if, considering they always did in all major races, especially Brest Atlantique ...)

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Well, guys, IMOCAs should also be waaay faster now than they were last time around, but hence what... they will be nowhere near current record. They will probably not be even close to second or third best time. Probably all due to weather. 
Sodebo is also the latest generation of ultim and still, even without the damage they were bleeding miles massively in the Indian Ocean and probably wouldn’t be able to compensate later. 
But on the other hand it was similar with IDEC... they were actually behind the reference time and they smashed it later on. 
Gitana was looking for the new record time to the Equator and Cammas was a bit disappointed because of it in one of the videos. OK, we can contribute this to Doldrums, but let us wait for the next segment. If they are that much better and they want to break the record, they need to nail most of them. Indian Ocean will probably not be one of them ;)

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4 hours ago, silvestert said:


Gitana was looking for the new record time to the Equator and Cammas was a bit disappointed because of it in one of the videos. OK, we can contribute this to Doldrums, but let us wait for the next segment. If they are that much better and they want to break the record, they need to nail most of them. Indian Ocean will probably not be one of them ;)

Pretty sure they just wanted to be in the south Atlantic in under around 6 days, you'd have to go back and watch the green light video.

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