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Dylan's New Boat Anarchy


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I shall look for a breather pipe - dirty bastard..... although I still have the thirsty gearbox as a possible source of spatter.

The smell is hot oil - with just a hint of diesel in the days after a KTL filter change.

Incidentally, I did change the secondary filter which was a bit claggy but still passing fuel. It looked like tank grime as opposed to diesel bug... I am getting quite good at it now.

I can read a filter the way a clairvoyant reads tea leaves.

As for the electric thoughts

today was a case in point - my plan was to take the boat the 18 miles to levington marina on the orwell. A month with lekkie will be nice while filming the walton backwaters in feburuary - when it is at its best.... and worst.

today started brilliantly and I dropped the mooring as the sun was coming up. Ice on the  decks.

 

there are some other films from today on youtube

It is six miles to the bar against an ever strengthening flood. 2 knots in the middle, i knot along the edge - but to use the edge of a bendy river  you have to keep crossing from one dside to the other. I was running at fairly high revs.

I would guess 2/3 throttle on the 29hp engine. The boat was diggin in a bit so I was wasting power. It was cold  so I had the heater on inside the noisy wheelhouse. I was warm but deafened  - too noisy  to hear spotify.

After the bar I had another 11 miles to do.... the first bit woud  be with the last of  the flood then the second but up the orwell against the ebb.

With an electric inboard those first  two hours at full blatt would drain most battery sets pretty badly.  I could have used the outboard to save the batteries for the final one mile push through and over the bar - say 20 minutes of full power.

 

In the end I realised that it was too bloody foggy at sea. I could find my way there with echosounder and ctablet but getting into levington involves crossing two shipping lanes - plus the windfarm boats. The harbour control at felixtowe would  hate me.

 

So I then motored most of the way home because the ebb had set in - say another two hours at 2/3 throttle.

I could have done all this with the combination of electric and outboard. But then the batteries woud be a bit flat for when I try again tommorrow. I could have done some charging with the suitcase generator on the way back -  so that I would  be ready to go in the morning.

It would have been quieter  in the cabin with either electric or  tohatsu running.

The journey would have been different.... however, having 29 hp when heading out the bar is quite a comfort as opposed to 14 hp through the electric prop and another possible 6hp withe the outboard(prone to wave action rev gyrations).

 

Dylan

PS - I shall have another go at getting around to the Orwell on wednesday.

 

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decided to make a night of it   left grimsby fish dock at first light friday port side light went west - but I had a set of temporary ones on board motorsailed all day then tw

I used to sail one of these   then in mid life one of these   now...... a telephone box on small tug    

four  words I do not care

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2 hours ago, dylan winter said:

 I then motored most of the way home because the ebb had set in - say another two hours at 2/3 throttle.

Thanks for sharing those here, Dylan.

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35 minutes ago, Slim said:

Thanks for sharing those here, Dylan.

I am playing with a new way of working

 

the idea is to make a sub 45 second sequence shot on the phone and uploaded unedited within seconds of being filmed.  almost real time.  I just take a quick shot of the tablet to show location, then out to the real world.

The plan is to do small batches of three films posting maybe four times a day. This does not get in the way of filming with a proper camera. The phone is remarkable.... but not as good as a real camera when it comes to framng and lighting shots.

I had intended to cover the whole journey around to the Orwell but I was defeated by the fog.

 

D

 

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41 minutes ago, Snowden said:

An odd project. Yes he got rid of the diesel engine, but now he has to run a generator all the time... Too much time watching submarine movies I think.

Actually, that's relatively close to what Dylan wants. Not silly IMO

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38 minutes ago, Panoramix said:
2 hours ago, Snowden said:

An odd project. Yes he got rid of the diesel engine, but now he has to run a generator all the time... Too much time watching submarine movies I think.

Actually, that's relatively close to what Dylan wants. Not silly IMO

There were a whole range of turbo-electric and diesel-electric ships. Given the improvements in small diesel engines, and the convenience of having a plentiful household electric source, the only downside I see is that it's likely to be more costly than a rebuild of the existing engine. If I were outfitting a not-too-small motorsailer for similar expeditions, that's exactly what I'd consider.

- DSK

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in the right circumstances A diesel electric system works very well with a big reduction in fuel usage.

My 27ft Motorboat, is diesel electric with a battery pack and solar panels. I do a lot of short hops from the moorings to the Sailing club and from there towing a sailing boat up to the nearest broad 1/2 a mile away.  For that the solar panels can recharge the batteries by the following week.

For longer distances I wind up the generator to save battery lives. the generator is in a "Quiet Pack" .

Vastly less noise than the old engine, which was way beyond rebuild value.. It had done 30 years in a hire fleet, probably 6 hours a day running 7 days a week for 3/4 of each year.. 

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Fair enough. The bit that struck me as odd was choosing such a small battery capacity, although I think that was driven by cost, which would not be quite as much of an issue today.

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Dylan has a unique need for electric propulsion- the ability to move silently while filming and retaining the ambient sounds.

@dylan winter Just remember- with flooded batteries, not only is it bad to overdischarge them, it's bad to let them sit in a discharged state for very long. If you drain the traction pack, try to be near shore power or run the suitcase or at least have some decent sunshine on the solar panels to put some positive pressure on the pack.

This is another reason why I like Firefly AGMs- they are not damaged by sitting for extended periods in any state of discharge.

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3 hours ago, Ajax said:

Dylan has a unique need for electric propulsion- the ability to move silently while filming and retaining the ambient sounds.

There's a thing called a sailboat that does that.

For free too.

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3 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

There's a thing called a sailboat that does that.

For free too.

You know full well that conditions vary. Sometimes he'll have to motor exclusively, other times he'll motor sail. Filming conditions don't always align with perfect sailing conditions.

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Hi All - I'm a noob sailor and a noob forum member but have a year of experience of with my electric propulsion Catalina 30. It's a 10kw install and looks to be the exact same components Dylan is considering, though his are in a nicer package. Dylan, happy to answer any questions, though it seems you've got a lot figured out!

I assume the Fisher 25 is a totally different beast, but here some numbers from my experience (+/- tides, wind, and 100 other variables):

Original batteries:48v 160ah Sealed lead acid, 50% discharge, 1.25 Puekert exponent

  • 3.5 knots, 16amps, 3.5 hours run time, 12.4nm of range
  • 4 knots,  24amps, 2.1 hours run time, 8.5nm of range

New batteries:48v 304ah LiFePO4, 95% discharge, 1.0 puekert exponent:

  • 3.5 knots, 16 amps, 18 hours run time, 63 nm of range
  • 4 knots, 24 amps, 12 hours run time, 48nm of range 

 

Not surprising, but going with LiFePO4 you can fit twice the capacity, get 6x the runtime, half the weight, and only use 2/3 of the space.

 

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

There's a thing called a sailboat that does that.

For free too.

In my experience, it's only free for one-way trips.

If you want to go anyplace upwind, or even significantly across it, you need actual sails and those aren't free.

- DSK

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39 minutes ago, farnja said:

Hi All - I'm a noob sailor and a noob forum member but have a year of experience of with my electric propulsion Catalina 30. It's a 10kw install and looks to be the exact same components Dylan is considering, though his are in a nicer package. Dylan, happy to answer any questions, though it seems you've got a lot figured out!

I assume the Fisher 25 is a totally different beast, but here some numbers from my experience (+/- tides, wind, and 100 other variables):

Original batteries:48v 160ah Sealed lead acid, 50% discharge, 1.25 Puekert exponent

  • 3.5 knots, 16amps, 3.5 hours run time, 12.4nm of range
  • 4 knots,  24amps, 2.1 hours run time, 8.5nm of range

New batteries:48v 304ah LiFePO4, 95% discharge, 1.0 puekert exponent:

  • 3.5 knots, 16 amps, 18 hours run time, 63 nm of range
  • 4 knots, 24 amps, 12 hours run time, 48nm of range 

 

Not surprising, but going with LiFePO4 you can fit twice the capacity, get 6x the runtime, half the weight, and only use 2/3 of the space.

 

thanks for this.

 

Range is always the worry.

 

Today I did 18 miles -

 

six miles down river against a 2 knot tide - but dodgable down to one knot by hugging the shores

engine running most of the time - although sailed for about a mile of it.

out through the bar - 3 knots against me - cannot get out of that one as the channel is narrow

then a fetch down the coast to felixtowe, out to sea to cross the shipping lane. Motorsailing to get through the annoying north sea chop

here it is

 

you see how that sucks the motion out of a tubby boat.

then it was ten miles up the Orwell against the ebb. Sailed a bit but motorsailed most of it with the engine at a third revs or so.

It was a noisy day inside the cabin with the engine under my feet.  Too cold to be outside where the engine is quieter.

Clearly 4 x 110 amp hour 12 volt lead acids are not going to do that lot with much happiness.  However, the more expensive ones will it seems.

40 plus miles at 4 knots  sounds fine to me. I motored for about three hours today... maybe more

Although it was a boisteroous, counter tide hard pushing day expensive electric batteries would cut the mustard.

Needless to say the engine was running as sweet as a nut and never missed a beat all day.

 

D

 

 

 

 

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Another HUGE advantage to the Lithium is how quickly they recharge. They will absorb more charge than you will be able to supply from a portable generator or normal (30 amp - don't know what you get over there) shore power

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1 hour ago, farnja said:

Hi All - I'm a noob sailor and a noob forum member but have a year of experience of with my electric propulsion Catalina 30. It's a 10kw install and looks to be the exact same components Dylan is considering, though his are in a nicer package. Dylan, happy to answer any questions, though it seems you've got a lot figured out!

I assume the Fisher 25 is a totally different beast, but here some numbers from my experience (+/- tides, wind, and 100 other variables):

Original batteries:48v 160ah Sealed lead acid, 50% discharge, 1.25 Puekert exponent

  • 3.5 knots, 16amps, 3.5 hours run time, 12.4nm of range
  • 4 knots,  24amps, 2.1 hours run time, 8.5nm of range

New batteries:48v 304ah LiFePO4, 95% discharge, 1.0 puekert exponent:

  • 3.5 knots, 16 amps, 18 hours run time, 63 nm of range
  • 4 knots, 24 amps, 12 hours run time, 48nm of range 

 

Not surprising, but going with LiFePO4 you can fit twice the capacity, get 6x the runtime, half the weight, and only use 2/3 of the space.

 

do you have any experience with direct drives as opposed to the belt. Is the belt noisy?

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No experience with direct drive. Mine uses the belt as a gear reduction then is coupled to the shaft with chain. There’s a little hum, but I think the shaft/coupling is noisier than the belt.

I will say on several occasions I was feeling good about my sailing only to realize I’d bumped the throttle into forward and was getting a bonus knot. It’s plenty quiet.

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On 1/18/2022 at 11:25 AM, Raz'r said:

Yes, the crankcase needs a breather as the pistons running up and down create pressure differentials. I believe that my breather feeds right into my air intake, but I can't guarantee that. 

You can also attach a hose to the vent and lead it out to a vent for energy engine compartment.  That made the boat livable for us until I rebuilt the engine.

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15 hours ago, farnja said:

I will say on several occasions I was feeling good about my sailing only to realize I’d bumped the throttle into forward and was getting a bonus knot. It’s plenty quiet.

LMAO...

Don't let that happen during beer can races. No one will ever trust you.

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Dylan,

Sorry, this is probably very obvious, but do you have a high thrust prop on the tohatsu? The tohatsu sail pro (basically the same motor as yours) normally comes with large 6" pitch, 3 bladed prop. Otherwise Solas sell aftermarket high thrust 4 bladed props with either 5" or 7" pitch.

 

I would have thought with a 6 HP and the right prop you should be able to get to hull speed, even if the Fisher isn't the most svelte boat around....

Maybe worth optimising ?

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I'm reading Dylan's accounts here, and it seems pretty obvious that electric drive is not the perfect solution for EVERYBODY.

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On 1/20/2022 at 12:40 PM, Munz said:

Dylan,

Sorry, this is probably very obvious, but do you have a high thrust prop on the tohatsu? The tohatsu sail pro (basically the same motor as yours) normally comes with large 6" pitch, 3 bladed prop. Otherwise Solas sell aftermarket high thrust 4 bladed props with either 5" or 7" pitch.

 

I would have thought with a 6 HP and the right prop you should be able to get to hull speed, even if the Fisher isn't the most svelte boat around....

Maybe worth optimising ?

Big three blade prop on mine.

Very good little engine

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