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NYYC Race Week Home Cooking


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22 hours ago, Francisco Laguna said:

Heard from a friend that heard from is cousin that there is some home cooking going on in the IC37 fleet after a crash at the start of one of the races.  How do you get redress for 3 races you raced in and affected other boats?

 

https://yachtscoring.com/event_results_cumulative.cfm?eID=11821

I like this. Pull the pin on the grenade and gentle roll it onto the lawn.

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Blazer did finish all three races. Never really took any time to patch up damage in between races. Redress for damage in the collision races should be OK. To continue to sail in other races without taking time to repair said damage in chartered boats? That is where the questions are coming  from. Putting some sticky back over the above water damage would have taken care of the problem. If they did not have it aboard I bet someone else would have. Poor seamanship on their part. 
 

if they could not race in the remaining races then redress would have been justified. 

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14 hours ago, maxman said:

Blazer did finish all three races. Never really took any time to patch up damage in between races. Redress for damage in the collision races should be OK. To continue to sail in other races without taking time to repair said damage in chartered boats? That is where the questions are coming  from. Putting some sticky back over the above water damage would have taken care of the problem. If they did not have it aboard I bet someone else would have. Poor seamanship on their part. 
 

if they could not race in the remaining races then redress would have been justified. 

Correction - There is photo on the website  of them sailing with a patch put on after the crash  and used in those 3 races. Do you think you should retract that statement?   They get a replacement boat  for later races which they stated at the awards ceremony they were happy about because it was a faster boat :)  

What about PY who tee-boned Blazer, retired, and lost a protest?  Usually in these things the gentlemanly thing to do is offer your boat to the injured party and buy them a drink.   Cant have wingnuts flying around the course taking out flag officers. Its just not done in Newport old boy.   

 

 

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The race the damage occurred they should be due redress. If they patched up the hole and water was kept out and they were able to race they should not have received redress for those two races. 
 

NYYC swapped out boats because they had a spare. If all the boats had been racing and there was not a spare the damaged boat would have been able to continue racing the rest of the regatta with some sticky back to cover the hole. Would they be due redress in the rest of the regatta in this condition? 

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8 minutes ago, maxman said:

The race the damage occurred they should be due redress. If they patched up the hole and water was kept out and they were able to race they should not have received redress for those two races. 
 

NYYC swapped out boats because they had a spare. If all the boats had been racing and there was not a spare the damaged boat would have been able to continue racing the rest of the regatta with some sticky back to cover the hole. Would they be due redress in the rest of the regatta in this condition? 

You should have Tboned them harder and insured it.  
Like my high school law teacher Mr. Al Rosen told us on first day of class, if you hit a pedestrian with your car, make sure you kill them. Great guy that Mr Rosen. 
But agree all the redress seems weird. 

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21 hours ago, maxman said:

The race the damage occurred they should be due redress. If they patched up the hole and water was kept out and they were able to race they should not have received redress for those two races. 
 

NYYC swapped out boats because they had a spare. If all the boats had been racing and there was not a spare the damaged boat would have been able to continue racing the rest of the regatta with some sticky back to cover the hole. Would they be due redress in the rest of the regatta in this condition? 

Another couple of Questions:

 

Was the tactician driving Blazer during the collision a member of the owners immediate family?

Does he pay 25% or more of the campaign costs?

Does his name show up on the charter agreement for that boat?

If he wasn't any of those and was involved in a collision, wouldn't that make it  non -redressable  because it was an improper act by Blazer to to have the boat being helmed after the 5 minute signal by an unapproved helmsman?

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21 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

What are you saying? The MELGES IC37 Class aims to promote one-design racing, family sailing at all age levels and genders and a friendly atmosphere. The MELGES IC37 Class aims to promote the highest level of sportsmanship and respect between competitors. The competitors shall at all times respect the rules of the MELGES IC37 Class, World Sailing, and the organizing yacht club(s) and/or authorities

So no responses to my answers.

I guess nobody racing these boats know the class rule's 

If they did, I would assume a protest would get filed about a none owner driver. 

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54 minutes ago, jesposito said:

So no responses to my answers.

I guess nobody racing these boats know the class rule's 

If they did, I would assume a protest would get filed about a none owner driver. 

I am confused, who are you saying was driving at the time they were hit by 022? 

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24 minutes ago, XPRO said:

I am confused, who are you saying was driving at the time they were hit by 022? 

Not the owner, you tell me?

 

I will give you a hint PL

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If you look at the crew lists, it seems like there are an awful lot of people we used to call Cat 3s in the old days who are Cat1s today.
I think the whole Cat 1-3 thing is all fakenews nowadays. Just  do away with it all.   

 

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Let me just throw this out here. I have no idea what really happened, but hypothetically...

  • Before the warning for the first race of the day, the owner asks tactician to take the helm while he/she relieves themselves. 
  • They are on an upwind course with a boat to windward
  • Without warning, the boat to windward turns down and hits them, leaving a hole at the waterline
  • In the first race of the day, they didn't have time to try a patch because the warning happened just after the collision
  • They are slow because they were constantly taking on water
  • Between races, they put a patch on. That slows the water coming in, but they still have a crew member tending to the water ingress and bailing all day
  • Of course they race because while limited by the crew member bailing, they aren't assured redress. 
  • They come to shore, go to the room asking for redress. 
  • The boat that hit them has retired and they make the case that down a crew member on a windy day, plus carrying water, their score was significantly worse for all races that day.
  • The Jury finds all of the above as facts inlcuding that the incident, while not Racing was between two boats in the area intending to race, therefore the rules apply (see preamble to part 2) and grant redress of average points for all races that day.

After hearing that, do any of you disagree with the possibility that nothing untoward happened? Again, this is all hypothetical, but I think it is possible that even with a patch, and the tactician driving, the only rule broken was the rule 11 collision (the boat that got hit is exonerated under 14(a)) as it wasn't reasonably possible to avoid when it became clear that a collision was imminent). 

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21 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Was this your favorite part ' I have no idea what really happened, but hypothetically..'

That's an awfully long piss 

It's a plausible scenario that fits the apparent facts. Even more plausible is that they said they had to luff their sails a bit on port tack all day to keep the hole out of the water and were slower as a result.

But, hey, if you enjoy conspiracy theories, Obama did it.

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3 hours ago, ScowLover said:

Let me just throw this out here. I have no idea what really happened, but hypothetically...

  • Before the warning for the first race of the day, the owner asks tactician to take the helm while he/she relieves themselves. 
  • They are on an upwind course with a boat to windward
  • Without warning, the boat to windward turns down and hits them, leaving a hole at the waterline
  • In the first race of the day, they didn't have time to try a patch because the warning happened just after the collision
  • They are slow because they were constantly taking on water
  • Between races, they put a patch on. That slows the water coming in, but they still have a crew member tending to the water ingress and bailing all day
  • Of course they race because while limited by the crew member bailing, they aren't assured redress. 
  • They come to shore, go to the room asking for redress. 
  • The boat that hit them has retired and they make the case that down a crew member on a windy day, plus carrying water, their score was significantly worse for all races that day.
  • The Jury finds all of the above as facts inlcuding that the incident, while not Racing was between two boats in the area intending to race, therefore the rules apply (see preamble to part 2) and grant redress of average points for all races that day.

After hearing that, do any of you disagree with the possibility that nothing untoward happened? Again, this is all hypothetical, but I think it is possible that even with a patch, and the tactician driving, the only rule broken was the rule 11 collision (the boat that got hit is exonerated under 14(a)) as it wasn't reasonably possible to avoid when it became clear that a collision was imminent). 

Its all plausable, except there wasn't a hole in the boat which allowed water in the interior. The boat is constructed with a foam core(and vacumm bagging which virtually eliminates voids) and despite what people think, a cored structure doesn't get saturated immediately. It did have a minor increase in drag as the outer skin was pierced.(on port tack) In breeze, the performance loss to the boat would be minimal to nonexistent.  

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32 minutes ago, fucket said:

It's a plausible scenario that fits the apparent facts. Even more plausible is that they said they had to luff their sails a bit on port tack all day to keep the hole out of the water and were slower as a result.

But, hey, if you enjoy conspiracy theories, Obama did it.

The hole was right at the waterline. Unless they sailed the boat on port tack with negative heel in flat water, the hole was being immersed. 

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4 hours ago, ScowLover said:

Let me just throw this out here. I have no idea what really happened, but hypothetically...

  • Before the warning for the first race of the day, the owner asks tactician to take the helm while he/she relieves themselves. 
  • They are on an upwind course with a boat to windward
  • Without warning, the boat to windward turns down and hits them, leaving a hole at the waterline
  • In the first race of the day, they didn't have time to try a patch because the warning happened just after the collision
  • They are slow because they were constantly taking on water
  • Between races, they put a patch on. That slows the water coming in, but they still have a crew member tending to the water ingress and bailing all day
  • Of course they race because while limited by the crew member bailing, they aren't assured redress. 
  • They come to shore, go to the room asking for redress. 
  • The boat that hit them has retired and they make the case that down a crew member on a windy day, plus carrying water, their score was significantly worse for all races that day.
  • The Jury finds all of the above as facts inlcuding that the incident, while not Racing was between two boats in the area intending to race, therefore the rules apply (see preamble to part 2) and grant redress of average points for all races that day.

After hearing that, do any of you disagree with the possibility that nothing untoward happened? Again, this is all hypothetical, but I think it is possible that even with a patch, and the tactician driving, the only rule broken was the rule 11 collision (the boat that got hit is exonerated under 14(a)) as it wasn't reasonably possible to avoid when it became clear that a collision was imminent). 

Which boat were you on?  Asking for a friend! :ph34r:

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Actually, I'm just a rules nerd. I have never set foot on a 37. I just don't share the view that this was absolutely a shady redress deal. The facts presented in the thread didn't add up to anything necessarily wrong. 

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On 10/2/2020 at 11:14 AM, ScowLover said:

Let me just throw this out here. I have no idea what really happened, but hypothetically...

  • Before the warning for the first race of the day, the owner asks tactician to take the helm while he/she relieves themselves. 
  • They are on an upwind course with a boat to windward
  • Without warning, the boat to windward turns down and hits them, leaving a hole at the waterline
  • In the first race of the day, they didn't have time to try a patch because the warning happened just after the collision
  • They are slow because they were constantly taking on water
  • Between races, they put a patch on. That slows the water coming in, but they still have a crew member tending to the water ingress and bailing all day
  • Of course they race because while limited by the crew member bailing, they aren't assured redress. 
  • They come to shore, go to the room asking for redress. 
  • The boat that hit them has retired and they make the case that down a crew member on a windy day, plus carrying water, their score was significantly worse for all races that day.
  • The Jury finds all of the above as facts inlcuding that the incident, while not Racing was between two boats in the area intending to race, therefore the rules apply (see preamble to part 2) and grant redress of average points for all races that day.

After hearing that, do any of you disagree with the possibility that nothing untoward happened? Again, this is all hypothetical, but I think it is possible that even with a patch, and the tactician driving, the only rule broken was the rule 11 collision (the boat that got hit is exonerated under 14(a)) as it wasn't reasonably possible to avoid when it became clear that a collision was imminent). 

You make good points. Except

The tactician was starting the boat, since the owner can't get off the line.

Redress is not meant for a boat to continue to race another 2 races, not do well and then get avg points.

I bet if they won the 2nd two races they wouldn't have asked for redress.

If they couldn't sail the boat efficiently, or to it's potential, they should have gone in.

Now the redress makes sense.

This smells like shit as the boat getting redress is the the next commodore   of NYYC.

Would an out of town boat gotten this white glove treatment.

From my past experience's with club's like this:

NOT   

 

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1 hour ago, jesposito said:

You make good points. Except

The tactician was starting the boat, since the owner can't get off the line.

Redress is not meant for a boat to continue to race another 2 races, not do well and then get avg points.

I bet if they won the 2nd two races they wouldn't have asked for redress.

If they couldn't sail the boat efficiently, or to it's potential, they should have gone in.

Now the redress makes sense.

This smells like shit as the boat getting redress is the the next commodore   of NYYC.

Would an out of town boat gotten this white glove treatment.

From my past experience's with club's like this:

NOT   

 

Certainly possible. I have no idea if the Jury was local or shipped in, trained, or thrown together, etc. I always like it when they post the forms, so we can all learn from it. I have no idea what happened, but it is possible it was all kosher, and possible it wasn't. 

Small point....redress can be for multiple races. For instance, if I was fouled at the first windward mark of the day and the boat tore a giant hole in my kite, and the class only allowed one kite to be carried, if I led at every windward mark, was last at every leeward mark, and was last at the downwind finish. I wouldn't sail home, but I would reasonably be due redress all day. 

I'm not saying any of the above was the case, just that it is possible with the info given in the thread. 

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39 minutes ago, ScowLover said:

Certainly possible. I have no idea if the Jury was local or shipped in, trained, or thrown together, etc. I always like it when they post the forms, so we can all learn from it. I have no idea what happened, but it is possible it was all kosher, and possible it wasn't. 

Small point....redress can be for multiple races. For instance, if I was fouled at the first windward mark of the day and the boat tore a giant hole in my kite, and the class only allowed one kite to be carried, if I led at every windward mark, was last at every leeward mark, and was last at the downwind finish. I wouldn't sail home, but I would reasonably be due redress all day. 

I'm not saying any of the above was the case, just that it is possible with the info given in the thread. 

I would just go to the bar and drink the rest of the day and let the redress rule take care of it.

Oh and the sailmaker repair the sail while me and the crew were drinking

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44 minutes ago, ScowLover said:

Small point....redress can be for multiple races. For instance, if I was fouled at the first windward mark of the day and the boat tore a giant hole in my kite, and the class only allowed one kite to be carried, if I led at every windward mark, was last at every leeward mark, and was last at the downwind finish. I wouldn't sail home, but I would reasonably be due redress all day. 

I guess you could do that. I think I’d probably retire and hope for better luck the next day/race/regatta. Sort of masochistic to sail a boat designed for a big a-sail downwind without it just on the chance you might get redress.

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