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Daysailer for old people


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Just now, socalrider said:

I've seen that boat pop up a few times.  I 100% respect the design brief and the designer, but I just can't wrap my head around the looks.  Or the twin helms.  

Or a porta-pottie floating around belowdecks.

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The happy conclusion of this thread is finally here!  Just took her out on her maiden voyage in San Diego.  Wonderful afternoon for a mellow shakedown sail; 4-6kts of boat speed in 5-10kts out of the

Update: funds have been transferred & documentation is complete!  We have a boat!   She should arrive here on Wednesday or Thursday; Driscoll yard will splash her and Rigworks will tension th

All packed up and ready to go.  Should arrive on Thursday!

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Why is it so difficult to find a Herreshoff 12 1/2 with unspoiled looks, an enclosed head, nice seats, enhanced form stability, miraculous dryness in a chop, an inboard engine, a magical field that makes a couple aboard look like Bogart and Bacall at their best and available for a mere pittance at the local boat yard? You'd think there would be some demand.

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2 hours ago, weightless said:

Why is it so difficult to find a Herreshoff 12 1/2 with unspoiled looks, an enclosed head, nice seats, enhanced form stability, miraculous dryness in a chop, an inboard engine, a magical field that makes a couple aboard look like Bogart and Bacall at their best and available for a mere pittance at the local boat yard? You'd think there would be some demand.

I'll take three.

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1 minute ago, weightless said:

No worries. DIY exorcism is easy. Just sing a chorus of "Don't Bogart That Joint" and they are exiled to the most foul depths of Burbank.

Whatever it takes to be alone with the three Laurens. 

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Just to be clear, that is NOT the only H Boat on the west coast. I know of three others around centraol/nor cal. One is at brickyard cove, on a trailer, another is in Sacramento. There are two in Seattle, and one in Santa Cruz.

 

I paid $2500 for mine, bought it from the Maritime Academy in about 1996.  With a trailer?  and a furler?  Call if $4500. Maybe $5K. Max.

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3 hours ago, weightless said:

Why is it so difficult to find a Herreshoff 12 1/2 with unspoiled looks, an enclosed head, nice seats, enhanced form stability, miraculous dryness in a chop, an inboard engine, a magical field that makes a couple aboard look like Bogart and Bacall at their best and available for a mere pittance at the local boat yard? You'd think there would be some demand.

And furthermore, thou canst not buy a unicorn for love nor money.  Even tho demand is high.

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You know, no matter what someone suggests, there will be SOMEONE out there, who doesn't like it. Sometimes they have good reasons. Sometimes the reasons are misplaced, like the probably well-intentioned person above who wrote that a Pearson Commander is a bad choice because once they helmed a Triton in heavy weather and they were exhausted. I'm sure that's a true story, and sure, in big air the Carl Alberg CCA boats heel over, but this is San Diego Bay we're talking about. Not the North Atlantic.

If you ask me, times a wastin'.  This thread has been up for months, now.  Maybe I'm feeling the passage of time more keenly as I get older, but I know this...fartin' around waiting for the perfect boat means only one thing; your parents will never sail again. The cold, hard truth might be that they don't care. They might TALK about sailing again but do they in fact, truly want to enough to actually make a decision?

If the early runner, of the Harbor 20 doesn't appeal, and I sure as hell understand why they might not, then get an Alerion.  They're expensive? So what? What are your parents going to do with their money? Burn it?

There is no perfect boat.

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Berkeley Marine Center has a Pearson Electra  on a trailer that needs work. The "work is cosmetics, really.   Ruben Gabriel is the yard manager, he's a buddy of mine. He took an Electra to Hawaii in 2008.  He says they're waiting for "someone special' to want the boat. He's got a soft spot for them. BMC also has an etchells that needs a home.

 

===============

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/boa/d/long-beach-freedom-21-lynx-for-sale/7238416713.html

Or here. It's local.  It's easy to sail. It's big enough for a pooper down below. Is it hot stuff? No. Will it go in a forward direction when the wind blows?  Yes.  is it gonna tip over and scare people?  No.  Are there actual seats in the cockpit? Yes.  Is being on a Freedom 21 on a nice day on San  Diego Bay worth the measly purchase price?  Oh HELL yes. 

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21 minutes ago, Alan H said:

You know, no matter what someone suggests, there will be SOMEONE out there, who doesn't like it. Sometimes they have good reasons. Sometimes the reasons are misplaced, like the probably well-intentioned person above who wrote that a Pearson Commander is a bad choice because once they helmed a Triton in heavy weather and they were exhausted. I'm sure that's a true story, and sure, in big air the Carl Alberg CCA boats heel over, but this is San Diego Bay we're talking about. Not the North Atlantic.

If you ask me, times a wastin'.  This thread has been up for months, now.  Maybe I'm feeling the passage of time more keenly as I get older, but I know this...fartin' around waiting for the perfect boat means only one thing; your parents will never sail again. The cold, hard truth might be that they don't care. They might TALK about sailing again but do they in fact, truly want to enough to actually make a decision?

If the early runner, of the Harbor 20 doesn't appeal, and I sure as hell understand why they might not, then get an Alerion.  They're expensive? So what? What are your parents going to do with their money? Burn it?

There is no perfect boat.

We’re on the same page. If there was an Alerion 28 locally we would probably own it. 
 

Taking a look at the j/27 and Cal 29 on Monday.

I’m also worried about them missing their window. I told them early on that the difference between the “best” boat and an “ok” boat is massively less than the difference between “a” boat and “no” boat. 

Hoping they listen. 

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7 hours ago, Alan H said:

Berkeley Marine Center has a Pearson Electra  on a trailer that needs work. The "work is cosmetics, really.   Ruben Gabriel is the yard manager, he's a buddy of mine. He took an Electra to Hawaii in 2008.  He says they're waiting for "someone special' to want the boat. He's got a soft spot for them. BMC also has an etchells that needs a home.

 

===============

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/boa/d/long-beach-freedom-21-lynx-for-sale/7238416713.html

Or here. It's local.  It's easy to sail. It's big enough for a pooper down below. Is it hot stuff? No. Will it go in a forward direction when the wind blows?  Yes.  is it gonna tip over and scare people?  No.  Are there actual seats in the cockpit? Yes.  Is being on a Freedom 21 on a nice day on San  Diego Bay worth the measly purchase price?  Oh HELL yes. 

This could the best idea yet.

"But it's so-o FUNNY-LOOKING" howls the chorus.

FB- Doug

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54 minutes ago, bmiller said:

What's not to like about this?

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/89353

Inboard diesel, enclosed head, decent interior accommodations, tiller, roller furling, low maintenance.....

I don't know about those grapes on the cockpit table. They look a little past their prime.

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11 hours ago, socalrider said:

We’re on the same page. If there was an Alerion 28 locally we would probably own it. 

Taking a look at the j/27 and Cal 29 on Monday.

I’m also worried about them missing their window. I told them early on that the difference between the “best” boat and an “ok” boat is massively less than the difference between “a” boat and “no” boat. 

Hoping they listen. 

Methinks your mom & dad raised a good boy.

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2 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

GINGER was for sale at a great price (compared to what the owner paid for building it) a while back. I'd go for this: Sweet little 50 footer. 

595853922_Ginger(1of1).thumb.jpg.9bc196d94ba925c8b0c600a188ae3104.jpg

Agile, fast, nimble at the docks

609434316_Gingerapproach.jpg.32a0d8c83d184d536f5bcc6745e9562c.jpg

Good dock ornament. 

1569024110_Gingerdocks.jpg.008d0d4aa6b0d1c5305ae676affcbcfe.jpg

Get a captain too. So much easier than fussing with the mooring. 

325

 

Did it sell (again) in the last year or two?  I knew it was for sale quite some time ago and the last asking price was somewhere in the $275k-$325k range.  Get 'er down well under $200k and I'd be getting pretty serious....

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3 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

 

609434316_Gingerapproach.jpg.32a0d8c83d184d536f5bcc6745e9562c.jpg

Get a captain too. So much easier than fussing with the mooring. 

Forget the captain!   I'd be happy to lend a hand at the helm.  What would be required is a varnish jockey.  

Man if I show that to my mom we'll *never* get a boat.  

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50 minutes ago, socalrider said:

Forget the captain!   I'd be happy to lend a hand at the helm.  What would be required is a varnish jockey.  

Man if I show that to my mom we'll *never* get a boat.  

Might be cheaper to move them to Rockport.

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13 hours ago, socalrider said:

Forget the captain!   I'd be happy to lend a hand at the helm.  What would be required is a varnish jockey.  

Man if I show that to my mom we'll *never* get a boat.  

For the price, you could buy a brand new Alerion 28, have it shipped to SoCal, and commissioned. 

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36 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

For the price, you could buy a brand new Alerion 28, have it shipped to SoCal, and commissioned. 

someone did that here with a safier 26 a couple years ago. sent a rigger/ tech from europe to Lake Diefenbaker...wondered what that cost.

 

 

 

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On 10/22/2020 at 7:53 PM, Bull City said:

....

The Colgate 26 looks like a fine boat for some, but not so much for an older couple. Then again, I have no experience in the boat, just looking at a photo.

FWIW, I happen to be 70-something and in the same boat circumstance as the OP's parents. I've recently sold our final cruising boat and am looking to buy a daysailer. Now I've been blessed with some fifty years of cruising/racing/instructing/delivery in Harbor20s, Ensigns, CDwhatever, Jeverything, Sonars, Soling, etc. etc., and the Colgate is the top of our list as the best fit daysailer for an older couple due to its unique combination of comfort and performance. I say this having spent perhaps 200 sailing days in a Colgate cockpit, usually with three other adults. 

As other posters have said, no boat is perfect, the portapotty is yeech and the jib winches are a stretch when alone, but hey, sailing  a Colgate always put a wide smile on my face... a Sonar or Rhodes 19 are the less expensive alternatives

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6 hours ago, SailFanatic said:

FWIW, I happen to be 70-something and in the same boat circumstance as the OP's parents. I've recently sold our final cruising boat and am looking to buy a daysailer. Now I've been blessed with some fifty years of cruising/racing/instructing/delivery in Harbor20s, Ensigns, CDwhatever, Jeverything, Sonars, Soling, etc. etc., and the Colgate is the top of our list as the best fit daysailer for an older couple due to its unique combination of comfort and performance. I say this having spent perhaps 200 sailing days in a Colgate cockpit, usually with three other adults. 

As other posters have said, no boat is perfect, the portapotty is yeech and the jib winches are a stretch when alone, but hey, sailing  a Colgate always put a wide smile on my face... a Sonar or Rhodes 19 are the less expensive alternatives

Instead of a Sonar, what about a Kirby 23?  
 

https://www.sailingtexas.com/202001/skirby23102.html

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I quickly scanned the posts and I didn't see my planned boat when I can't get around quite so well. It may not be traditional but they sail with almost no heel making getting around easy. They are fast but when fast very much in control and easy to handle. They are really light making them easier to handle at dock and to put on a trailer. They have very large stable decks making it easy to get around. I plan on getting a small trimaran. I currently crew on a F27 the owner is 75 and his wife is near that. The stability and ease of getting around is better than any 27 foot mono I have been on and this is a performance slanted tri. I have been on some cruiser slanted tri's that are even better for stability. The F27 has a head, galley and sleeps 3-4.  It is also fast. 13 knots is a normal reach and 20 knots is possible. I saw a cruiser tri were they had replaced most of the tramps with hard decking that to me seems the perfect boat for daysailing mature people.

https://wavetrain.net/2013/08/07/corsair-f-27-a-fast-folding-trimaran/

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^^ Uhmm... is this the phenomenon that was mentioned by someone, where the OP mentions nothing but traditional looking monohulls as being of interest, and after 400+ posts discussing monohulls, someone comes along evangelizing multihulls?

Is there a name for this?

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3 minutes ago, Bull City said:

^^ Uhmm... is this the phenomenon that was mentioned by someone, where the OP mentions nothing but traditional looking monohulls as being of interest, and after 400+ posts discussing monohulls, someone comes along evangelizing multihulls?

Is there a name for this?

The name is "internet".

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35 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

The name is "internet".

83.1415%* of the suggested boats have not been daysailers.

62 1/128% have not been classically styled (including at least one mooted by the OP).

70 + 2i% have had accommodations despite the need for such being specifically excluded in post 1.

0% have suggested that the additional specification of an enclosed head could be accommodated by putting a full bath on a barge drone that would hover just out of frame from the classically beautiful "daysailor" [sic] until needed. (I regret that).

Where was the outrage?

*internet standard statistics. Tau = 2 pi. King Arglebargle's method.

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6 hours ago, Bull City said:

^^ Uhmm... is this the phenomenon that was mentioned by someone, where the OP mentions nothing but traditional looking monohulls as being of interest, and after 400+ posts discussing monohulls, someone comes along evangelizing multihulls?

Is there a name for this?

Sometimes people just need their horizons broadened. Wouldn't want ya becoming closed minded:) 

Also it really worked well for my friend and thought it was worth sharing.

JJ

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41 minutes ago, johnsonjay17 said:

Sometimes people just need their horizons broadened. Wouldn't want ya becoming closed minded:) 

Also it really worked well for my friend and thought it was worth sharing.

JJ

I think it’s a legit suggestion give how much broader our search has gotten due to low inventory and no travel. My mom won’t go for it though. I love them, have raced on an F9A. 

Looked at a bunch of boats this weekend. Very little available in good shape. The new J/9 would be perfect for them; next build slot is for October delivery, and prob $160k. 

We are narrowing it down though. Ideally want displacement under 5000lbs, length ~22-33’, coamings, head, inboard or good outboard well setup, small jib. They are also liking minimal exposed wood. So basically a J/9.

A little Capri 22 does a lot of this for little $$ and they are readily available unlike almost everything else. Hmm...

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I had Capri 22 hull number 618. I dont know what # they are up to now, and there was a redesign about 6 years ago, so anything I say may be irrelevant. I do think the boat could work well, but a couple minor adaptations might be considered.

The boat is quite lively, and won't sail a boat length in a straight line if you let go of the tiller. If the tiller is secured, it's not so bad, so rig one of the rope + clamp devices that will hold the tiller in place when desired. 

The jib sheet winches and cleats were set up for racing. My boat had jamb cleats on the side of the cockpit such that, if the crew kept the sheet in their hand, they would inevitably uncleat the sheet unintentionally.  I suggest replacing the winches with self-tailing ones if they are not self-tailing already. I used the smallest Andersen's, and they were great.

I installed a Boomkicker which worked very well while sailing but which had annoying habits causing the boom to roll when furling the sail.

The boat came with a CDI furler which worked fine but which doesn't allow adjusting luff tension. I replaced it with a Shaefer Snapfurl which I don't recommend for reasons I will elaborate if you are interested.

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21 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

I suggest replacing the winches with self-tailing ones if they are not self-tailing already. I used the smallest Andersen's, and they were great.

On that size of boat, it may be viable to switch to a 2:1 purchase on the jib sheets, and replace the winches with cam cleats.  That has the advantage you dont have to go down to the leeward coaming to sheet in

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10 hours ago, socalrider said:

A little Capri 22 does a lot of this for little $$ and they are readily available unlike almost everything else. Hmm...

You probably know this but you and your parents can rent a Capri 22 in San Diego for a few hours for super cheap.  I think we paid $90 for two hours on mission bay.  Fun way to see if it's a workable solution. 

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

On that size of boat, it may be viable to switch to a 2:1 purchase on the jib sheets, and replace the winches with cam cleats.  That has the advantage you dont have to go down to the leeward coaming to sheet in

Yes, but I was suggesting that the self-tailer obviates the cleating issue.

I had a racing cut, deck-sweeping genoa, but a friend bought a C22 which came with a Jib that was maybe 125% cut with a high clew. That's great for daysailing in terms of visibility alone. (I had a close call with some kayakers hidden behind my genoa.)

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8 minutes ago, breezetrees said:

You probably know this but you and your parents can rent a Capri 22 in San Diego for a few hours for super cheap.  I think we paid $90 for two hours on mission bay.  Fun way to see if it's a workable solution. 

Yeah, I’m pushing for that next. They’re not super excited about owning a Capri 22, which I understand - not a romantic or beautiful boat like the Alerion or Morris. But important to get them out on the water.  

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2 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

On that size of boat, it may be viable to switch to a 2:1 purchase on the jib sheets, and replace the winches with cam cleats.  That has the advantage you dont have to go down to the leeward coaming to sheet in

But twice as much genoa sheet to pull in on each tack; maybe not ideal for parents?...really a self-tacking jib or a cat boat rig would be my choice in my 'golden years'.

I have recently gone from a cutter with Yankee jib and a self-tacking staysail to a sloop with a 135% genoa...boy, there's a lot more sheet to pull in now! (both boats in the 35 - 36 foot range)

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2 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

But twice as much genoa sheet to pull in on each tack; maybe not ideal for parents?...really a self-tacking jib or a cat boat rig would be my choice in my 'golden years'.

I think a 2:1 purchase is much easier than hanging over the coaming to grind a winch.  YMMV.

Self-tacking jibs are handy, but unless you use a Hoyt job boom, you end up with a job which is useless offwind.

2 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

I have recently gone from a cutter with Yankee jib and a self-tacking staysail to a sloop with a 135% genoa...boy, there's a lot more sheet to pull in now!

Overlapping genoas are the work of the devil.  A curse on whoever made you have one

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56 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

...really a self-tacking jib or a cat boat rig would be my choice in my 'golden years'.

Yup. 

50 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Self-tacking jibs are handy, but unless you use a Hoyt job boom, you end up with a job which is useless offwind.

Alerion, J/100 (none on W. Coast), or... there's a Wyliecat 30 in Marina del Ray!  I love those boats.  They're asking a pretty penny but it looks great.  And no varnishing.  

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1997/wyliecat-30-3708018/

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54 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

...

Overlapping genoas are the work of the devil.  A curse on whoever made you have one

My wife began her sailing career (years before we met) in small boats and traditional boats. She never sailed a boat with a big genoa, until some years after we were married and sailed together... visiting a cousin with a standard racer-cruiser of the day (~1990) with a 155 genny.

She didn't like helming because she couldn't see where we were going. She didn't like trimming because the winches took some real grunt. She handled the main for a while but after tacking around a mooring field, she commented to me "This is a really a flaming pain in the ass! Why does he have that big awful jib? We should get rid of it!"

I've always had a thing for smart women

Back to the OP- that Wyliecat may be the best suggestion so far!

FB- Doug

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2 minutes ago, socalrider said:

Alerion, J/100 (none on W. Coast), or... there's a Wyliecat 30 in Marina del Ray!  I love those boats.  They're asking a pretty penny but it looks great.  And no varnishing.  

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1997/wyliecat-30-3708018/

The Wyliecat looks nice, but spendy.

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There is a lot to like about that Wyliecat 30. Less than a hundred grand. Ticks every box. It’s local. Turn key. Classic, but modern. Fast easy to sail. Would sell easy so there’s an exit strategy, but I bet socalrider would keep it. 

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30 minutes ago, no shoes said:

There is a lot to like about that Wyliecat 30. Less than a hundred grand. Ticks every box. It’s local. Turn key. Classic, but modern. Fast easy to sail. Would sell easy so there’s an exit strategy, but I bet socalrider would keep it. 

Hell yeah.  Transpac!  Pinged the broker...

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2 minutes ago, sailpower said:

Pearson made a Catboat, Pearson 23C.

No Transpac but talk about simple.

 

pearson-23c-marketing.png&f=1&nofb=1

 

That was my first boat! was very cool boat-camping in the midwest, and daysailing on SF Bay.  I think it would be great for San Diego.

 

Downsides: porta-potty at the mast, yes there is a privacy curtain at the bulkhead but no hatch, nothing above. Not mom-friendly

No backs to the bench seats below, so cushions are needed, and just not comfy.

Bigger downside? outboard powered, even the XL shaft would like to jump out of the water on occasion. A 6hp is plenty of grunt however, so it's lighter than a 9.9

Do NOT take it out into large swell. That long boom is made to catch swell tops. Too exciting.

 

Are any around? I sold mine in the mid-90s for $3k and last I saw of it was maybe 10 years ago in the Alameda channel.

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

... (Pearson 23 cat) ...

 

Are any around? I sold mine in the mid-90s for $3k and last I saw of it was maybe 10 years ago in the Alameda channel.

Yes, there's a neglected one on a mooring in our creek. Never seen it sailing.

FB- Doug

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yes, there's a neglected one on a mooring in our creek. Never seen it sailing.

FB- Doug

They sail surprisingly well. The only time I ever raced it we were given a J24 rating and finished first in the little boat class.  But it's not a racer, and that course particularly favored us with a DDW start, then two tight reaches home.  It wouldn't do well on a WL, but reaching? Fun!

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4 hours ago, Raz'r said:

That was my first boat! was very cool boat-camping in the midwest, and daysailing on SF Bay.  I think it would be great for San Diego.

 

Downsides: porta-potty at the mast, yes there is a privacy curtain at the bulkhead but no hatch, nothing above. Not mom-friendly

No backs to the bench seats below, so cushions are needed, and just not comfy.

Bigger downside? outboard powered, even the XL shaft would like to jump out of the water on occasion. A 6hp is plenty of grunt however, so it's lighter than a 9.9

Do NOT take it out into large swell. That long boom is made to catch swell tops. Too exciting.

 

Are any around? I sold mine in the mid-90s for $3k and last I saw of it was maybe 10 years ago in the Alameda channel.

 

The long boom in a swell thing is pretty typical of most cat rigs, right?

I saw this for sale.

https://www.shoppok.com/chicago/a,29,332799,1983-Pearson-23C----4800.htm

????

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50 minutes ago, sailpower said:

 

The long boom in a swell thing is pretty typical of most cat rigs, right?

I saw this for sale.

https://www.shoppok.com/chicago/a,29,332799,1983-Pearson-23C----4800.htm

????

That's the one. Looks like the original sail, a nice little squaretop would be great, except you'd need to put on a different mainsail track. A tides-track would be slick.

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23 hours ago, socalrider said:

Hell yeah.  Transpac!  Pinged the broker...

Hell yeah. I think we’re in the same marina. Guess I will get to see it. 

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57 minutes ago, no shoes said:

Hell yeah. I think we’re in the same marina. Guess I will get to see it. 

Hopefully!  Going up to see her on Monday.  Are you at Kona Kai?  Haven't figured out a slip yet; would be great to get her berthed next to our trawler but not keen on paying for an extra 10' at the most expensive marina in town... we'll see what our options are if things move forward.  I loved Harbor Island West when we were there but have gotten spoiled by being so close to the Pacific.  

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2 hours ago, socalrider said:

Hopefully!  Going up to see her on Monday.  Are you at Kona Kai?  Haven't figured out a slip yet; would be great to get her berthed next to our trawler but not keen on paying for an extra 10' at the most expensive marina in town... we'll see what our options are if things move forward.  I loved Harbor Island West when we were there but have gotten spoiled by being so close to the Pacific.  

Yep. Tell me about it. I’ve more than one slip here. Having them side by side is awesome and well worth the little bit of money you will save moving to harbor island. That Wyliecat next to your trawler would be a great program. Good luck. Merry Christmas. 

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7 hours ago, Alan H said:

Bridges Point 24 for sale in Stockton

https://stockton.craigslist.org/boa/d/pittsburg-2004-bridges-point-24engine/7250431432.html

 

I've never even seen one of these out here, I'm flabbergasted. It's on  a trailer. Your folks could own that by this weekend.

Wow!  Thanks; will take a closer look.  Hoping owner has more pics. What’s beauty - interesting to compare with the much larger and more modern Wyliecat. 

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On December 19, 2020 at 2:18 PM, Kris Cringle said:

GINGER was for sale at a great price (compared to what the owner paid for building it) a while back. I'd go for this: Sweet little 50 footer. 

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Agile, fast, nimble at the docks

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Good dock ornament. 

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Get a captain too. So much easier than fussing with the mooring. 

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I've  never really been a fan of Ginger's lines. Too much like a giant Atlantic Class for my taste, I prefer Herreshoff to Burgess. 

Regarding the BP24, a friend has one in Center Harbor. Unsurprisingly, she loves it. 

 

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Two inquiries on the BP24 via the Craigslist ad have so far gone unanswered.  

We drove up to see the Wyliecat - it's a great boat, great owners, but significantly overpriced I think.  Regardless, my mother is not big on the non-traditional rig for aesthetic reasons (I loved it & thought it'd be ideal).  She loved the cockpit & both parents are now sure they want coamings and a small, ideally self-tacking jib.  And my mom wants a "nice" boat, meaning none of the beaten-up older boats will cut it and there's no interest in projects.

So we've ruled out a lot of cool boats.  The BP24 would be great if it actually exists and is for sale in Stockton. An Alerion 28 remains a the top of the list; there are 10 or so currently listed, but none within 1000 miles.  If we're sure that's the right boat I'd consider hiring a trusted local surveyor and having it shipped here.  

Anyone in San Diego or SoCal with an Alerion 28 they'd be willing to let us take a look at?

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Thanks to a generous forum member we got to take a look at an Alerion 28 - beautiful and perfect for us.  

Also, the local Morris M29 that's been listed for a long time on YW and was under contract came back on the market.  It's extremely pricey but otherwise a great fit.  We made an offer but the sellers aren't moving down enough to represent what we think to be a reasonable premium over the dozen or so A28's out there at ~1/2 the price.  

I love the BP24's as well, and found a nice one on a trailer in Maine.  Tough to buy without getting to see one in person though, and I suspect the full keel, 4' shorter LOA, and relatively shallow 3.5' draft would mean a more tender and lively boat, maybe not quite as safe, dry & comfortable.  

We're seriously in the market for an A28 now - from what I can tell these boats are pretty consistently built, so I feel it'd be a reasonable proposition to buy one sight unseen with a competent local survey and have her trucked out here.  Any advice on managing such a process would be appreciated, as all my boats have been bought locally thus far.  

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Socal, Here's two BP24 listings, both with electric power:

This one is a weekender, with a video that gives some idea of the boat under sail:

https://www.ecys.com/boat/1998/bridges-point/24-customized-by-french-webb/2273/

A daysailer version listed by the same broker:

https://www.ecys.com/boat/2018/bridges-point/24/2221/

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@socalrider, there have been lots of boats on yer list where I'd have thought "meh", and made some polite noises.  And a few where I'd have thought WTF.

But the Alerion 28 looks very tasty.  There are good reasons why they have sold so well despite their high price against the glut of used boats of similar size.  I hope your folks will be very happy with their choice, and that they will enjoy many more years of sailing.

Have you made any decision about whether to go for one with the Hoyt jib boom?

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As far as the jib boom goes, if you are buying used you pretty much take what you get.  My 28 has the Hoyt boom and I'm reasonably happy with it.  The main disadvantages for daysailing purposes are that it makes it hard to get around the foredeck and it also prevents opening the hatch all the way.  I guess the latter could be considered a safety issue if you had someone sleeping in the V-berth.  The self-tacking traveler would seem to address both issues, but may have its own drawbacks - IDK.

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31 minutes ago, Son of Hans said:

As far as the jib boom goes, if you are buying used you pretty much take what you get.

The OP seems ready to buy from out-of-area, so may have a choice.

29 minutes ago, Son of Hans said:

The self-tacking traveler would seem to address both issues, but may have its own drawbacks

On a monohull, self-tacking jibs have a track so short that sheeting angles offwind are horrible.  The advantage of the Hoyt jib boom is that as well as self-tacking, the jib becomes a genuinely useful offwind sail with no need to deploy a whisker pole.

Obvs, the job boom has downsides as you rightly note.  I was just curious about how @socalrider had weighed the pluses and minuses.

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3 hours ago, socalrider said:

We're seriously in the market for an A28 now - from what I can tell these boats are pretty consistently built, so I feel it'd be a reasonable proposition to buy one sight unseen with a competent local survey and have her trucked out here.  Any advice on managing such a process would be appreciated, as all my boats have been bought locally thus far.  

I bought my H-Boat in 2015. I'm in N.C., the boat was on the hard in R.I. I found a surveyor who did a quick inspection for $100-200 to see if it was worth traveling to look at. I think it was called a pre-purchase inspection. He reported that the boat was definitely worth a look. I ended up getting a full survey and bought the boat.

I knew I was going to have the boat moved to a yard I was familiar with. They also transport boats. They were able to move it on a return trip to N.C. about 30 days after I bought it. It was about a 750 mile trip.

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6 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

The OP seems ready to buy from out-of-area, so may have a choice.

On a monohull, self-tacking jibs have a track so short that sheeting angles offwind are horrible.  The advantage of the Hoyt jib boom is that as well as self-tacking, the jib becomes a genuinely useful offwind sail with no need to deploy a whisker pole.

Obvs, the job boom has downsides as you rightly note.  I was just curious about how @socalrider had weighed the pluses and minuses.

My boat is 27', about the same length as the Alerion. Off the wind, I would rather vomit than sail dead down wind. Maybe that's a bit strong, but @TwoLegged is right about sheeting angles, and whisker poles. I prefer to broad reach, and jibe from one tack to the other. It's a more pleasant angle of sail. To go DDW I'd have to re-lead sheets, rummage around for the pole, etc.

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1 minute ago, Bull City said:

My boat is 27', about the same length as the Alerion. Off the wind, I would rather vomit than sail dead down wind. Maybe that's a bit strong, but @TwoLegged is right about sheeting angles, and whisker poles. I prefer to broad reach, and jibe from one tack to the other. It's a more pleasant angle of sail. To go DDW I'd have to re-lead sheets, rummage around for the pole, etc.

Even on a broad reach, a Hoyt-boomed jib is way more effective than any loose-footed jib, even it is conventionally sheeted (i.e. no self-tacking track).

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The Morris we looked at had a Harken track for self-tacking. It was also my thought that offwind it would be tough to trim the jib well. 

I think we’ll take what we can get but the Hoyt seems like a good solution and most seem to have them - probably won’t be spending any time on the foredeck anyway. 

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I guess the self-tacker on a track is OK if you are going to use a Code 0 or a kite when the wind angle moves aft.   But settling flying headsails doesn't seem likely to be a hot pick for older people.

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4 minutes ago, socalrider said:

The Morris we looked at had a Harken track for self-tacking. It was also my thought that offwind it would be tough to trim the jib well. 

I think we’ll take what we can get but the Hoyt seems like a good solution and most seem to have them - probably won’t be spending any time on the foredeck anyway. 

For my parents the Hoyt jib-boom and the saildrive on the A28 meant that single-handing became possible and quick afternoon sails easy. They even did a little racing and finished decently.  

They put in a few small mods in the galley and it made an ok overnighter. 

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8 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

I guess the self-tacker on a track is OK if you are going to use a Code 0 or a kite when the wind angle moves aft.   But settling flying headsails doesn't seem likely to be a hot pick for older people.

Yep. The Morris had a pretty cool looking gennaker launch and retrieval system but I’m sure they’d have never used it unless I was aboard. 

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5 hours ago, socalrider said:

Thanks to a generous forum member we got to take a look at an Alerion 28 - beautiful and perfect for us.  

Also, the local Morris M29 that's been listed for a long time on YW and was under contract came back on the market.  It's extremely pricey but otherwise a great fit.  We made an offer but the sellers aren't moving down enough to represent what we think to be a reasonable premium over the dozen or so A28's out there at ~1/2 the price.  

I love the BP24's as well, and found a nice one on a trailer in Maine.  Tough to buy without getting to see one in person though, and I suspect the full keel, 4' shorter LOA, and relatively shallow 3.5' draft would mean a more tender and lively boat, maybe not quite as safe, dry & comfortable.  

We're seriously in the market for an A28 now - from what I can tell these boats are pretty consistently built, so I feel it'd be a reasonable proposition to buy one sight unseen with a competent local survey and have her trucked out here.  Any advice on managing such a process would be appreciated, as all my boats have been bought locally thus far.  

Here's a brief look at the different A28 builds and builders. https://www.spinsheet.com/boat-reviews/alerion-28-express-used-boat-review. It appears there's a bit of variety in that department.

There is also an A28 Class website that serves the Chesapeake area which might be helpful to you.

Good luck!

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9 hours ago, socalrider said:

We're seriously in the market for an A28 now - from what I can tell these boats are pretty consistently built, so I feel it'd be a reasonable proposition to buy one sight unseen with a competent local survey and have her trucked out here.  Any advice on managing such a process would be appreciated, as all my boats have been bought locally thus far. 

Get one with a F/W cooled engine?  The early ones were R/W cooled.

 

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Socal,

I'm just spitballing here, and obviously can't guarantee anything, but I'm betting that anywhere there is a nice A28 that might be worth checking out, there is also a guy here on CA who'd be willing to go look at the boat, take a bunch of pics, and tell you whether they think its worth a close look by you or the surveyor of your choice...I know it's easy for me to say that, as I'm just north of LA, so chance of you asking me is low, but there are alot of good folks here, with a discerning eye, who'd likely be happy to help the process...

Crash

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Just as an aside, I also e-mailed the Craigslist BP24 person, and got no response.  If your folks are willing to spend the money, I think the Alerion is a better boat for them, and if you get to sail it, too, well....the Alerion over the BP24, any day in San Diego.

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On 12/27/2020 at 6:37 PM, Cruisin Loser said:

I've  never really been a fan of Ginger's lines. Too much like a giant Atlantic Class for my taste, I prefer Herreshoff to Burgess. 

Regarding the BP24, a friend has one in Center Harbor. Unsurprisingly, she loves it. 

 

While I disagree (burgess vs hereshoff) I do agree that Ginger is an odd duck.  I’m even less enthused about her performance, which is borderline embarrassing.  It’s unfortunate that her designer can only muster to approximate high performance.   The keel, rudder and rig on ginger make me cringe whenever I see them. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

At the risk of having this drag on for ever, here's another one to take a look at: https://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/boa/d/national-city-bristol/7261273656.html.  Yes, she has an outboard (but well-integrated) and a porta-potty, and probably slower than the second coming, but sweet-looking and available here and now.  She's on my dock and every time I walk by her I think how nice she looks.  I imagine it wouldn't take much effort to get her underway for a quick sail either.

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@socalrider I know you are looking hard at the A28, but this just popped up on Sailing Texas, and I'd be remiss not to make you aware...How about Bob's Old Fart 20?  At $12k, that's a serious steal I'd think....has a trailer, so moving it to where you are is not overly expensive either...

https://www.sailingtexas.com/202101/sperry20101.html

https://sailingmagazine.net/article-797-perry-20.html

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1 hour ago, Crash said:

@socalrider I know you are looking hard at the A28, but this just popped up on Sailing Texas, and I'd be remiss not to make you aware...How about Bob's Old Fart 20?  At $12k, that's a serious steal I'd think....has a trailer, so moving it to where you are is not overly expensive either...

https://www.sailingtexas.com/202101/sperry20101.html

https://sailingmagazine.net/article-797-perry-20.html

Thanks Crash - that does look like quite a deal. I think a bit more waterline is good for our particular use case; more importantly we had an offer accepted on an A28 over the weekend. More details to come once everything’s finalized!

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10 hours ago, Crash said:

@socalrider I know you are looking hard at the A28, but this just popped up on Sailing Texas, and I'd be remiss not to make you aware...How about Bob's Old Fart 20?  At $12k, that's a serious steal I'd think....has a trailer, so moving it to where you are is not overly expensive either...

https://www.sailingtexas.com/202101/sperry20101.html

https://sailingmagazine.net/article-797-perry-20.html

Wow!  That's a bargain for a beautiful, unique, wee boat that will sail well.

But it's also a sad reminder of costs of a custom boat.

The 2009 Sailing mag article  estimates the cost at $97,500.  That money invested on an S&P-500 tracker fund in 2009 would now be worth over $300,000 ... but the money went into a boat which is advertised for $12,000.   I hope the owner had a LOT of fun with that boat.

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

Wow!  That's a bargain for a beautiful, unique, wee boat that will sail well.

But it's also a sad reminder of costs of a custom boat.

The 2009 Sailing mag article  estimates the cost at $97,500.  That money invested on an S&P-500 tracker fund in 2009 would now be worth over $300,000 ... but the money went into a boat which is advertised for $12,000.   I hope the owner had a LOT of fun with that boat.

This math, while technically accurate (and he may have spent even more than that ‘estimated cost’) is something we boat owners/enthusiasts really prefer not to be reminded of... and WHATEVER you do or say, don’t make this point to our spouses!  However, in truth, we’ve determined that we’re willing to pay such sums for Quality of Life!

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