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2020 Presidential election


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It needs a thread now that many of us have voted and we're on our way.  I voted D the entire ticket.  Joe is up 3M votes counted in early voting according to John King.  There were lines in my small town on the first day in the only blue county in the reddest of states.  What say you? 

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My wife and I have already voted.

This is the first election that I recall, certainly the first in>30 years, where I did not vote for one single Republican candidate. We have a lot of non-partisan positions so hitting "straight party" will skip them, I went ahead and ticked individual candidate boxes.

For example we have a Republican... or more accurately, a Trumpublican... running for the School Board in every district. Every one of them likes to yell about putting God in schools, about freedom to choose a school and about removing tax support for "failing" schools (one of them came right out and said that "teaching evolution means the school is a failure"), etc etc. There are a couple of Democrats running but most of the candidates are non-partisan.

- DSK

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We're not entitled to vote until the 21st.

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Taking this nice cool, misty day to vote.  Straight, thank you very much.  

Almost voted for the republican candidate for state treasurer - a self-proclaimed autistic savant - who promises to re-hire the current democratic treasurer to to his job and 168 other surrogates for 1 hour a week ... while he pursues all of the 168 degrees the University of Washington offers.  So he can serve us citizens better.   But I just couldn't do it.

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10 hours ago, roundthebuoys said:

It needs a thread now that many of us have voted and we're on our way.  I voted D the entire ticket.  Joe is up 3M votes counted in early voting according to John King.  There were lines in my small town on the first day in the only blue county in the reddest of states.  What say you? 

Is it too late to attach a poll?

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1 hour ago, Fakenews said:

Dropped mine off already but early voting in Fl starts tomorrow.  Will be interested if turnout matches the rest of the battleground states.

Not in my county. They decided to delay it until the 21st.

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8 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

Not in my county. They decided to delay it until the 21st.

Red county?  I think the escalating COVID cases will serve to suppress the vote on Election Day.  Delaying early voting and actively discouraging mail in voting will backfire on the GOP.

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9 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

Red county?  I think the escalating COVID cases will serve to suppress the vote on Election Day.  Delaying early voting and actively discouraging mail in voting will backfire on the GOP.

Red? Try bloody crimson with ruby droplets, and scarlet rosettes.

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Voting (and registering to vote) seems so complicated in the US. Heard an interview with a Georgia woman who waited for ten hours to vote. She said normally she only waits for  1 1/2 hours. WTF. In Canada, if you vote early or on Election Day you might have to wait for five minutes. I waited for 15 once and thought they had screwed up. To register you only need to check a box on your income tax return that authorizes the tax people to share your data with Elections Canada. It is not hard.

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4 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Voting (and registering to vote) seems so complicated in the US. Heard an interview with a Georgia woman who waited for ten hours to vote. She said normally she only waits for  1 1/2 hours. WTF. In Canada, if you vote early or on Election Day you might have to wait for five minutes. I waited for 15 once and thought they had screwed up. To register you only need to check a box on your income tax return that authorizes the tax people to share your data with Elections Canada. It is not hard.

The party currently in power in 3 out of the 4 main sections of the US's federal gov't (splitting Congress into the Dem house and Rep senate), and in the majority of state gov'ts, does not want people to vote. They most especially do not want poor or working people to vote. They've spent decades making it more difficult and time-consuming. They view the fact that a person with a time clock to punch and bills to pay cannot take a whole day off to wait in line as a victory.

And it's a reason why they have gained so much power. They've specifically courted the most dedicated and least rational voter base, who hold them completely unaccountable for the workings of gov't because their voter base all believe the slogan "we hate the dadgum gubbermint anyway" or "all politicians are crooks."

This trend is at the threshold of destroying the USA. It might already be too late, history will be the judge

- DSK

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Last night, 60 minutes interviewed Bob Bauer, the man they said knows more about election law than any person in the country.  He was asked many questions regarding Trump stealing the election.  Bauer was confident Trump will not succeed. 

With the media spreading so much fear about this happening, I was surprised to hear him stand so firm that Trump will fail at every attempt to overturn the results of the election.

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

And it's a reason why they have gained so much power. They've specifically courted the most dedicated and least rational voter base, who hold them completely unaccountable for the workings of gov't because their voter base all believe the slogan "we hate the dadgum gubbermint anyway" or "all politicians are crooks."

 

Just remember: They targeted the most gullible people first.  The smart people didn't pay attention to what they were doing to those in the pews.  Once 'herd immunity' was reached with the stupid virus, they helped it trickle out to the stupid non-religious people too.  They couldn't get the smart people, so they enticed them with money.

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On 10/18/2020 at 5:15 AM, roundthebuoys said:

It needs a thread now that many of us have voted and we're on our way.  I voted D the entire ticket.  Joe is up 3M votes counted in early voting according to John King.  There were lines in my small town on the first day in the only blue county in the reddest of states.  What say you? 

You voted lockstep with the party...  I hope you vetted the candidates.. sometime your party candidate is not the best choice...  Maxine Waters for instance!!!

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13 minutes ago, Jules said:

Last night, 60 minutes interviewed Bob Bauer, the man they said knows more about election law than any person in the country.  He was asked many questions regarding Trump stealing the election.  Bauer was confident Trump will not succeed. 

With the media spreading so much fear about this happening, I was surprised to hear him stand so firm that Trump will fail at every attempt to overturn the results of the election.

I hope he's right

The problem is, we rely on "mechanisms" to hold Trump accountable. There is no such thing, in reality. It's people. And people can be swayed into doing things that they would not normally consider.

With 40% of USAnians pretty much hypnotized into following Trump in a Jonestown-like death cult, there is no way we can rely on the in key positions within the machinery of gov't to say "Yeah, I'm totally not going to obey Trump's illegal orders even though I may get fired or my family threatened." Look at Dr. Fauci... who has quite literally trained the public health experts in countries with 1/20th of our casualty rate in this pandemic... sidelined, out of the loop, under FBI guard because Trumpalos threaten his family. If I were in that situation I would be concerned that one or more of the guards could easily be Trumpalos themselves.

 

2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Just remember: They targeted the most gullible people first.  The smart people didn't pay attention to what they were doing to them.  Once 'herd immunity' was reached with the stupid virus, they helped it trickle out to the stupid non-religious people too.  They couldn't get the smart people, so they enticed them with money.

 

Zackly... except that Trump is a stupid thief. Wall St doesn't trust him to help them make more money any more.

- DSK

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I dropped out ballots off last week, day after we received them. Early morning there was already a line just to drop them off. I don't think there was a Trump voter there, although there were a lot of older voters who Trump would have needed. Seeing the turnout, I do think PA will be called for Biden by early AM on the 4th. It will take a while to count everything, but enough will be counted by morning on the 4th to safely call the state. I have also had a number of calls with our state rep and senator (both R but both good folks), and am confident that our legislature will resist any attempts to employ them in trying to overturn results. 

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I don't think 40% of the US is a Trump voter.  I think maybe 20% could be, but the other 20% are Republicans who will never vote for Democrat under any circumstance (I have friends like this) so they vote for him anyway.  They think he's an idiot, but they hate poor people and people of color so much they simply can't vote for a democrat.  I'm trying to talk them into not voting at all.

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1 hour ago, nacradriver said:

You voted lockstep with the party...  I hope you vetted the candidates.. sometime your party candidate is not the best choice...  Maxine Waters for instance!!!

For many R candidates a dead person would be a better choice. Especially the QAnon candidates.

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1 hour ago, nacradriver said:

You voted lockstep with the party...  I hope you vetted the candidates.. sometime your party candidate is not the best choice...  Maxine Waters for instance!!!

Her district appears to like her, she has been in Congress for thirty years and has whupped every Republican challenger with no less than 71% of the vote. If you want to replace her, you should start with better candidates.

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17 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

I don't think 40% of the US is a Trump voter.  I think maybe 20% could be, but the other 20% are Republicans who will never vote for Democrat under any circumstance (I have friends like this) so they vote for him anyway.  They think he's an idiot, but they hate poor people and people of color so much they simply can't vote for a democrat.  I'm trying to talk them into not voting at all.

My definition of a Trump voter is someone who votes for Trump. My definition of a Trump supporter is someone who votes for Mickey Mouse instead of voting for Trump and then supports what Trump does. A mere Trump supporter is epsilon better than a Trump voter except that given the vagaries of the Electoral College that vanishes to insignificance.

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22 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

For many R candidates a dead person would be a better choice. Especially the QAnon candidates.

Goes the same for the D Team...  but they have dead voting.  And in many urban cases they are voting for noting more that an ham and Swiss on rye

 

22 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Her district appears to like her, she has been in Congress for thirty years and has whupped every Republican challenger with no less than 71% of the vote. If you want to replace her, you should start with better candidates.

Actually it was 77% and considering what 28% of the people in the district voted.  Wonder how much of that was product of ballot harvesting.  Your team is just  as nasty and dirty as the other team..  the problem is you've drank too much Kool-Aid to see it.

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2 minutes ago, nacradriver said:

Goes the same for the D Team...  but they have dead voting.  And in many urban cases they are voting for noting more that an ham and Swiss on rye

 

Actually it was 77% and considering what 28% of the people in the district voted.  Wonder how much of that was product of ballot harvesting.  Your team is just  as nasty and dirty as the other team..  the problem is you've drank too much Kool-Aid to see it.

You should send your remark to QAnon, without evidence, all of it is nutty conspiracy theory.

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39 minutes ago, nacradriver said:
1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

For many R candidates a dead person would be a better choice. Especially the QAnon candidates.

Goes the same for the D Team...  but they have dead voting.  And in many urban cases they are voting for noting more that an ham and Swiss on rye

 

1 hour ago, badlatitude said:

Her district appears to like her, she has been in Congress for thirty years and has whupped every Republican challenger with no less than 71% of the vote. If you want to replace her, you should start with better candidates.

Actually it was 77% and considering what 28% of the people in the district voted.  Wonder how much of that was product of ballot harvesting.  Your team is just  as nasty and dirty as the other team..  the problem is you've drank too much Kool-Aid to see it.

That's why, as a minority, the Republicans have taken such a huge share of power in this country... because both parties are equally dirty about election fuckery. And the attitude that it's a "team sport" instead of a very serious matter of governance makes it easy to be a cheerleader for your team, and immerse yourself in their regalia and proclaim their virtues, no matter what the actual facts are.

You really should get that beam out of yer eye.

- DSK

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40 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

That's why, as a minority, the Republicans have taken such a huge share of power in this country... because both parties are equally dirty about election fuckery. And the attitude that it's a "team sport" instead of a very serious matter of governance makes it easy to be a cheerleader for your team, and immerse yourself in their regalia and proclaim their virtues, no matter what the actual facts are.

You really should get that beam out of yer eye.

- DSK

I don't believe for a second that we are playing a team sport, politics has been a rough sport since the beginning of this country. Under Republicans, the game has gotten much more serious. These days we become activists to put down wannabe Hitler's, fractured foreign policy, criminal police, criminal Wall Street, crimes against immigrants, crimes against our collective environment, shoving religion down our throats, getting foreign governments to interfere in our elections, all because the opposition wants to dismantle everything the left has brought to this country, not tone the policies down, or negotiate changes, but to tear down everything the left side has done.

The left has not removed voters from eligibility lists, they have not imposed taxes and fines to limit votes, they have never called for poll watchers to actually go into polling places to observe votes, you will never see the left roughing up voters trying to exercise their constitutional rights, in other words, we are not playing the same game. What the left does try to do is make sure people get to exercise the rights to vote. The rest of what you see is noise, noise that has been going on since at least 1828, and probably way before that. 

I would love to sit down and have a serious and productive conversation with the opposition. If PA is a representation of that, it will never happen. 

 

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58 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

That's why, as a minority, the Republicans have taken such a huge share of power in this country... because both parties are equally dirty about election fuckery. And the attitude that it's a "team sport" instead of a very serious matter of governance makes it easy to be a cheerleader for your team, and immerse yourself in their regalia and proclaim their virtues, no matter what the actual facts are.

You really should get that beam out of yer eye.

- DSK

The statement in BOLD is patently and dangerously untrue. 

There is no evidence to support it, and much evidence to discredit it.  The inequality of election fuckery between the parties is astounding, whether it be gerrymandering, voter suppression, intimidation, or active interference (e.g. Bush v Gore in Florida).  

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1 minute ago, Left Shift said:
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

That's why, as a minority, the Republicans have taken such a huge share of power in this country... because both parties are equally dirty about election fuckery. And the attitude that it's a "team sport" instead of a very serious matter of governance makes it easy to be a cheerleader for your team, and immerse yourself in their regalia and proclaim their virtues, no matter what the actual facts are.

You really should get that beam out of yer eye.

- DSK

The statement in BOLD is patently and dangerously untrue. 

There is no evidence to support it, and much evidence to discredit it.  The inequality of election fuckery between the parties is astounding, whether it be gerrymandering, voter suppression, intimidation, or active interference (e.g. Bush v Gore in Florida).  

That looked quite purple to me.

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The Admiral and I both voted early last week in Ohio. Lines were about 45 minutes in our semi-rural county. 

Curiously, unbeknownst to each other, both of us voted for a Republican, a county commissioner who has done a decent job. It's been a while since I have done that. 

The both-sidesism I see expressed above is stupid, maddening and pernicious. 

Just stop and think for just a minute y'all: Do you really think there is any similarity in the degree of GOP-Dem gerrymandering? Voter suppression? Dissemination of fake news? 

The problem with "everybody does it" both-sidesism is that it empowers the Reich, and they are well aware of that. 

If folks are gonna push the BS-ism, they need to provide evidence and sources, and spare us the anecdotes. 

But I have yet to see a BS-ism supporter provide diddley squat with respect to evidence - 

which shows that their stance is ideological, not rational. 

(I think I deserve to win the day for this brilliant post) 

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31 minutes ago, Ishmael said:
32 minutes ago, Left Shift said:
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

That's why, as a minority, the Republicans have taken such a huge share of power in this country... because both parties are equally dirty about election fuckery. ....

 

The statement in BOLD is patently and dangerously untrue. 

There is no evidence to support it, and much evidence to discredit it.  The inequality of election fuckery between the parties is astounding, whether it be gerrymandering, voter suppression, intimidation, or active interference (e.g. Bush v Gore in Florida).  

That looked quite purple to me.

 

Thanks.

I think the whole sentence stands up for itself. The second half, taken on it's own, is indeed a dangerous and offensive statement.

- DSK

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Just now, Left Shift said:

In these days of fabricated outrageous claims, sarcasm and irony and other subtle means of civil discourse are being left for dead.  

Sorry if I mis-read you.

You're fine

I should work at being more clear. I was hoping to make a good point to a fellow SA'er who seems to have at least a toe over the line into elk-land

- DSK

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I hope he's right

The problem is, we rely on "mechanisms" to hold Trump accountable. There is no such thing, in reality. It's people. And people can be swayed into doing things that they would not normally consider.

I've been thinking the same thing.  But, IIRC, he was asked about those kind of "what ifs" and he was certain Trump will not succeed in stealing the election.  

It's worth seeing that part of last night's 60 Minutes, if you haven't already.  The Bob Bauer interview comes in toward the end.  I can't find a YouTube of just that part of the show to post.
 

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59 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

The statement in BOLD is patently and dangerously untrue. 

There is no evidence to support it, and much evidence to discredit it.  The inequality of election fuckery between the parties is astounding, whether it be gerrymandering, voter suppression, intimidation, or active interference (e.g. Bush v Gore in Florida).  

Have you been reading my mind again ? 

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1 minute ago, Left Shift said:

Does your mind include at least one poorly placed comma?  My high school English teacher would be wagging her finger at me.  

That wild, running loose comma is due entirely to the Cabernet - as are all those impure thoughts. 

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If any of you have any lingering sympathies for Both Sides-ism 

read this. The Dems do nothing like this on such a grand scale. 

So you thought you were reading local news? Well guess again. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/18/technology/timpone-local-news-metric-media.html

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3 hours ago, nacradriver said:

And you know this how?  You're related to Madam Zelda?

 

Maybe it is different there, but it is not hard here to know with +-80% certainty who is who. Mostly, the Trump voters tell you but in the absence of that there are some obvious tells. Looking at the back of someone's vehicle can be a real good indicator of a preference for Trump (Trump-Pence sticker are obvious, but so are NRA stickers, stickers from one or more gun manufacturers, and if they have one or more pro life stickers), although the converse is not true as a lot of them keep their preferences to themselves.  There are tells for Biden or antiTrump voters that are less obvious, such as whether they are wearing a mask in a way that shows they are concerned vs wearing it to comply. 

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1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

To put it bluntly, One side believes in governance, the other side believes in power.  

Both sides of the political spectrum in any country believe in retaining power and self preservation first and foremost. What is needed is a viable third-party option instead of the two-party flip-flop system that exists in many western nations presently.

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11 minutes ago, FinnFish said:

Both sides of the political spectrum in any country believe in retaining power and self preservation first and foremost. What is needed is a viable third-party option instead of the two-party flip-flop system that exists in many western nations presently.

With a third party, there will always be a weak sister.  A robust parliamentary system, perhaps like New Zealand's, may be what could be wished for.

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Third party turd party. There should be no "party"s.....

People should all run as individuals with individual thoughts, and "platforms"....

 There should be no monetary contribution of any kind allowed. Even self funding.

 No in kind advertising, no outside advertising. Nothing but the words from the candidates mouth.

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8 hours ago, nacradriver said:

You voted lockstep with the party...  I hope you vetted the candidates.. sometime your party candidate is not the best choice...  Maxine Waters for instance!!!

Muffy Davis (Olympian)

Dick Fosbury (Olympian)

I know all the rest of them down ticket.  I had no questions about any of them, except one judge who was completely fair to me during a lawsuit and gave her the nod.

 

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8 hours ago, nacradriver said:

You voted lockstep with the party...  I hope you vetted the candidates.. sometime your party candidate is not the best choice...  Maxine Waters for instance!!!

So you and Maxine broke up.  This really is an unsavory side of you, let it go!  She's moved on bud.  

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12 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

Muffy Davis (Olympian)

Dick Fosbury (Olympian)

I know all the rest of them down ticket.  I had no questions about any of them, except one judge who was completely fair to me during a lawsuit and gave her the nod.

 

Muffy?  That's unfortunate, unless she's a pre-schooler or a pet.   

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6 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

Look her up, she's pretty cool.

Don't doubt it, just think people should drop childhood nicknames at a certain age.  Just my opinion.  Glad you have a candidate you are excited about.  

I have met a guy in his 40's that went by Binky!

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2 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

Don't doubt it, just think people should drop childhood nicknames at a certain age.  Just my opinion.  Glad you have a candidate you are excited about.  

Well she's kind of a brand now, so I don't think you can change that.  We have Picabo Street and Katelyn Farrington here too.  They are name brands.  We also have Beau Bergdahl for good or ill.  Small towns are difficult.

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2 minutes ago, nacradriver said:

Your ribs still hurt? 

Yesterday morning, the worst, today, don't feel them.  It's been a bit over 4 weeks and I've been encouraged by today.  I have a car and need to jack it up and do the creeper thing and for the first time feel tomorrow is the day.  Things seem to be changing daily so who knows?  Appreciate you asking!

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7 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

image.png.c07fdcb2038f5e862aaca152034ff0d6.png

As a consequence, I think Shitstain will duck the debate.

He's already caterwauling about it.

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13 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

image.png.c07fdcb2038f5e862aaca152034ff0d6.png

As a consequence, I think Shitstain will duck the debate.

I bet you're right

He would completely lose it if his microphone were cut off mid-rant. Might be the most entertaining part of the whole thing

- DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

I bet you're right

He would completely lose it if his microphone were cut off mid-rant. Might be the most entertaining part of the whole thing

- DSK

He’s also demanding the moderator change her six lines of questioning.which (so unfairly I might add) do not include Hunter Biden.

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3 hours ago, FinnFish said:

Both sides of the political spectrum in any country believe in retaining power and self preservation first and foremost. What is needed is a viable third-party option instead of the two-party flip-flop system that exists in many western nations presently.

won't happen with winner-take-all voting. Those 3rd parties get subsumed into the major parties to have any voice at all. Like the progressives as part of the Dem party. (Bernie, etc)

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1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

Yesterday morning, the worst, today, don't feel them.

Glad that you are better, and regret that we could not do that sail . .

Totally avoid that jack & creeper thing for several weeks at least. 

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3 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

Third party turd party. There should be no "party"s.....

People should all run as individuals with individual thoughts, and "platforms"....

 There should be no monetary contribution of any kind allowed. Even self funding.

 No in kind advertising, no outside advertising. Nothing but the words from the candidates mouth.

And which major party pushes those sorts of reforms ? 

Hint - it is not both 

Seriously dude, do your homework. A number of locales in the US have enacted 100% publicly financed elections. 

Even Arizona for Jeebus' sake !! 

And guess whose Reich-Wing courts have blown them up ?? 

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1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

Yesterday morning, the worst, today, don't feel them.  It's been a bit over 4 weeks and I've been encouraged by today.  I have a car and need to jack it up and do the creeper thing and for the first time feel tomorrow is the day.  Things seem to be changing daily so who knows?  Appreciate you asking!

Be careful and make sure someone is within an earshot.. 

Glad to hear you're on the mend.

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