badlatitude 4,192 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 This crime is one of the heinous in American history. Purdue and the Sacklers, should forfeit everything to the victims of these crimes. Purdue Pharma, the maker of OxyContin, has agreed to plead guilty to criminal charges and face penalties of roughly $8.3 billion, the Justice Department announced on Wednesday, a move that could pave the way for a settlement of thousands of lawsuits brought against the company for its role in the opioids epidemic. The company’s owners, members of the wealthy Sackler family, will pay $225 million in civil penalties. Federal prosecutors said the settlement did not preclude criminal charges against Purdue executives or individual Sacklers. Wednesday’s announcement does not conclude the extensive litigation against Purdue, but it does represent a significant advance in the long legal march by states, cities and counties to compel the most prominent defendant in the opioid epidemic to help pay for the public health crisis that has resulted in the deaths of more than 450,000 Americans since 1999, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Still, it is unlikely the company will end up paying anything close to the $8 billion negotiated in the settlement deal. That is because it is in bankruptcy court and the federal government will have to take its place in a long line of creditors. Typically, creditors end up collecting pennies on the dollar. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/21/health/purdue-opioids-criminal-charges.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage Quote Link to post Share on other sites
inneedofadvice 235 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Should move this ruling to the jokes thread. F'n ridiculous. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 12,534 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Aren't right wingers all about personal responsibility? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 10,516 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 31 minutes ago, SloopJonB said: Aren't right wingers all about personal responsibility? As long as it's some other person. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Left Shift 3,604 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 What probably hurts them the most is The Met peeling their name off of their (former) gallery. Unlike Donnie, they tried to buy their way into high society. They gave actual money. Donnie thought he could bluff his way in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badlatitude 4,192 Posted October 21, 2020 Author Share Posted October 21, 2020 Just a year ago, Purdue filed for bankruptcy protection putting an end to 2,000 lawsuits filed by local governments, Native American tribes, and states. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/16/oxycontin-maker-purdue-pharma-files-for-bankruptcy-protection.html?__s Prior to that filing the Sackler family transferred as much of Purdue assets that they could to offshore banks. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/09/14/ny-attorney-general-exposes-billion-wire-transfers-by-sackler-family/ Mortimer D.A. Sackler has defended the offshore transfer of millions of dollars from the company to his family, calling them “perfectly legal and appropriate in every respect,” the Associated Press reported. The Sackler family took care of their money before anyone made them pay up for their heinous crimes, and there is nothing they can do about it now. Now you know why people hate corporate America. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ventucky Red 1,100 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Hasn't the Sacklers donated a lot of money to democrat campaigns in Connecticut and other "blue" states? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
d'ranger 4,297 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 20 minutes ago, nacradriver said: Hasn't the Sacklers donated a lot of money to democrat campaigns in Connecticut and other "blue" states? Are you just phoning it in now? opensecrets.org sackler family donations 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
longy 846 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 In a similar vein, Exide has been able to shed any responsibility for cleaning up their battery recycling factory in LA. So clean up of heavy toxins is now left to the State of CA. Plant operated from 1922 to 2015, the last THIRTY YEARS on a "temporary" permit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 8,366 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 15 minutes ago, longy said: In a similar vein, Exide has been able to shed any responsibility for cleaning up their battery recycling factory in LA. So clean up of heavy toxins is now left to the State of CA. Plant operated from 1922 to 2015, the last THIRTY YEARS on a "temporary" permit Well dammit, they have a duty to THE STOCKHOLDERS, man! - DSK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 https://the.ink/p/purdue-pharma-and-philanthropy-as Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ventucky Red 1,100 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 hour ago, longy said: In a similar vein, Exide has been able to shed any responsibility for cleaning up their battery recycling factory in LA. So clean up of heavy toxins is now left to the State of CA. Plant operated from 1922 to 2015, the last THIRTY YEARS on a "temporary" permit There will be a Blue Ribbon Panel discussion, five other sound byte interviews and then it falls to the wayside. Then, there is a super fund cleanup once those that make the final decision on who gets the contract are assured their pockets are well lined.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jules 2,806 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 3 hours ago, badlatitude said: Just a year ago, Purdue filed for bankruptcy protection putting an end to 2,000 lawsuits filed by local governments, Native American tribes, and states. If college kids can't file for bankruptcy, criminals shouldn't be able to either. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badlatitude 4,192 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 18 minutes ago, Jules said: If college kids can't file for bankruptcy, criminals shouldn't be able to either. I am not an attorney, but I do know this could possibly be an act of fraudulent conveyance. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fraudulentconveyance.asp Naturally, if your bank account says $13 billion, you can afford the best talent in the nation to hide those transactions, so don't expect much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 so guy selling smack is evil pusher, however put on a suit give it a label and youre good to go Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ShortForBob 2,937 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 The Justice Department? on Wednesday? Purdue Pharma, the maker of OxyContin, has agreed to plead guilty to criminal charges and face penalties of roughly $8.3 billion, the Justice Department announced on Wednesday, a move that could pave the way for a settlement of thousands of lawsuits brought against the company for its role in the opioids epidemic. **** Wednesday’s announcement does not conclude the extensive litigation against Purdue Isn't anyone's cynicism klaxon screaming? Just wait for the Trump's next rally. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AJ Oliver 1,919 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 The Sacklers are pure evil . . no way around it. They should have been imprisoned years ago. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 8,366 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 10 hours ago, nacradriver said: 12 hours ago, longy said: In a similar vein, Exide has been able to shed any responsibility for cleaning up their battery recycling factory in LA. So clean up of heavy toxins is now left to the State of CA. Plant operated from 1922 to 2015, the last THIRTY YEARS on a "temporary" permit There will be a Blue Ribbon Panel discussion, five other sound byte interviews and then it falls to the wayside. Then, there is a super fund cleanup once those that make the final decision on who gets the contract are assured their pockets are well lined.. Unfortunately I think you're right, if it gets addressed at all. Perhaps we should just be thankful that our goddam intrusive regulations kept Bhopal from happening here. - DSK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pertinacious Tom 1,918 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 what's wrong with that picture? It's still stupid, and getting more so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jules 2,806 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 10 hours ago, toad said: so guy selling smack is evil pusher, however put on a suit give it a label and youre good to go And donate generously to political campaigns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mismoyled Jiblet. 2,411 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 10 hours ago, toad said: so guy selling smack is evil pusher, however put on a suit give it a label and youre good to go Free trade! Capitalism! Hong Kong forever! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ventucky Red 1,100 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said: Unfortunately I think you're right, if it gets addressed at all. Perhaps we should just be thankful that our goddam intrusive regulations kept Bhopal from happening here. - DSK Add up all the micro disasters and the long term affects in the US and Bhopal was nothing... half of these sites are the result of the government or the government turning their head until they got caught with their pants dawn. https://www.epa.gov/superfund/search-superfund-sites-where-you-live Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mismoyled Jiblet. 2,411 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 18 minutes ago, nacradriver said: Add up all the micro disasters and the long term affects in the US and Bhopal was nothing... half of these sites are the result of the government or the government turning their head until they got caught with their pants dawn. https://www.epa.gov/superfund/search-superfund-sites-where-you-live Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 8,366 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 38 minutes ago, nacradriver said: 1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said: Unfortunately I think you're right, if it gets addressed at all. Perhaps we should just be thankful that our goddam intrusive regulations kept Bhopal from happening here. Add up all the micro disasters and the long term affects in the US and Bhopal was nothing... half of these sites are the result of the government or the government turning their head until they got caught with their pants dawn. https://www.epa.gov/superfund/search-superfund-sites-where-you-live I think that there is even more day-to-day pollution in other countries, but I agree with you that long term effects of smaller scale have been as bad or worse than the headline disasters. I also agree that there is definitely such a thing as over-regulation. In an era when political compromise is toxic itself, how do we make some real improvements on this issue? Because we really need to! - DSK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fufkin 639 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Here’s a summary. The depths to which these guys have manipulated the drug and medical business is truly mind boggling. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/30/the-family-that-built-an-empire-of-pain/amp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grrr... 2,204 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 17 hours ago, nacradriver said: Hasn't the Sacklers donated a lot of money to democrat campaigns in Connecticut and other "blue" states? And what? It's a fucking donation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 12,534 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 14 hours ago, toad said: so guy selling smack is evil pusher, however put on a suit give it a label and youre good to go They're called Tobacco executives aren't they? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ventucky Red 1,100 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, Grrr... said: And what? It's a fucking donation bribe. There you go you go fixed.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grrr... 2,204 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 31 minutes ago, nacradriver said: There you go you go fixed.. So by that logic, every donation to Republicans is a bribe too, right? Or is this just a unique standard applied to Democrats? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MR.CLEAN 4,187 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 41 minutes ago, nacradriver said: There you go you go fixed.. Have you donated? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ventucky Red 1,100 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Grrr... said: So by that logic, every donation to Republicans is a bribe too, right? Or is this just a unique standard applied to Democrats? Absolutely, this goes for both sides. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ventucky Red 1,100 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Just now, MR.CLEAN said: Have you donated? Not one fucking penny... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sol Rosenberg 10,096 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 Judge nixed the deal. Sacklers subject to civil suits. https://www.reuters.com/business/judge-tosses-deal-shielding-purdues-sackler-family-opioid-claims-2021-12-17/ 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clove Hitch 1,479 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 I'm not sure how much of the series "Dopesick" is true or not (excellent series, btw), but at the end when they put actual footage of the Sacklers from last year talking about how they did nothing wrong. ... .. those fucks are evil. And I don't suppose it's any coincidence they focused on a serious pain med. Treating pain is a nightmare and frequently a no-win situation. For example, I've had some tough told timer after a CABG who is breathing shallow and fast, in obvious significant pain due to literally every non-verbal sign, but refuses morphine. I point out that his O2 sat is 89- 90% because his cracked open sternum is stopping him from breathing properly and that pain relief is actually oxygen relief because he'll breath easier. And then you have the outright drug seekers. They have sweet talked their way into geting various "as needed" stuff and will set their phone alarms if they find out how often they can get in and will bitch to no end if you are 1 min late in showing up with their dope. Had one with a straight face tell me she wanted me to mix her IV Benadryl (which gets you high as fuck) with her IV morphine and slam it. Nurses will walk in to see them laughing at cat videos and munching on snacks- "What's your pain level?" -- "Oh, solid 10 out of 10." And, on the other hand, nurses and docs can't ever dismiss pain even from people who appear to be drug seekers because you'll have a case where some guy is complaining about vague flank pain along with all his other drug-seeking pain and then the scan will show tumor in the liver or something. I'm not sure there is any sort of shit Docs have to deal with that has so much grey-area as pain and Arthur Sackler is an M.D. so I bet he knew what kind of money he could squeeze out of such a difficult and nebulous phenomena as pain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pertinacious Tom 1,918 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 20 years of Portuguese drug policy They went one way and got reduced addiction. We went another and replaced pill mills with fentanyl. We went the stupid way. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer7 33 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 On 10/21/2020 at 2:59 PM, badlatitude said: This crime is one of the heinous in American history. Purdue and the Sacklers, should forfeit everything to the victims of these crimes. Purdue Pharma, the maker of OxyContin, has agreed to plead guilty to criminal charges and face penalties of roughly $8.3 billion, the Justice Department announced on Wednesday, a move that could pave the way for a settlement of thousands of lawsuits brought against the company for its role in the opioids epidemic. The company’s owners, members of the wealthy Sackler family, will pay $225 million in civil penalties. Federal prosecutors said the settlement did not preclude criminal charges against Purdue executives or individual Sacklers. Wednesday’s announcement does not conclude the extensive litigation against Purdue, but it does represent a significant advance in the long legal march by states, cities and counties to compel the most prominent defendant in the opioid epidemic to help pay for the public health crisis that has resulted in the deaths of more than 450,000 Americans since 1999, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Still, it is unlikely the company will end up paying anything close to the $8 billion negotiated in the settlement deal. That is because it is in bankruptcy court and the federal government will have to take its place in a long line of creditors. Typically, creditors end up collecting pennies on the dollar. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/21/health/purdue-opioids-criminal-charges.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage How come doctors - the ones who actually prescribed this stuff to patients - seem to have escaped this litigation? There is another side to our enthusiastic crusade to reduce opioid use. Patients who are dependent on the drugs to control pain are increasingly unable to legally obtain opioids that they have taken for years with ultimately disastrous results. When faced with reduced doses prescribed - or none at all - some of them turn to the "street" for an alternative. A substantial fraction of "opioid-related" deaths are from unwittingly taking fentanyl (or, worse still, carfentanyl) after trying to illegally buy hydrocodone, etc. At least, when you get it from the pharmacy, it's usually what it says it is. There are always unintended consequences. For those rejoicing this lawsuit: Just hope that you are never in such extreme pain, such as after a major surgery or an auto accident, but your doctor is reluctant to prescribe anything more powerful than OTC Tylenol due to fear of being sued. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
learningJ24 532 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, Surfer7 said: How come doctors - the ones who actually prescribed this stuff to patients - seem to have escaped this litigation? There is another side to our enthusiastic crusade to reduce opioid use. Patients who are dependent on the drugs to control pain are increasingly unable to legally obtain opioids that they have taken for years with ultimately disastrous results. When faced with reduced doses prescribed - or none at all - some of them turn to the "street" for an alternative. A substantial fraction of "opioid-related" deaths are from unwittingly taking fentanyl (or, worse still, carfentanyl) after trying to illegally buy hydrocodone, etc. At least, when you get it from the pharmacy, it's usually what it says it is. There are always unintended consequences. For those rejoicing this lawsuit: Just hope that you are never in such extreme pain, such as after a major surgery or an auto accident, but your doctor is reluctant to prescribe anything more powerful than Tylenol due to fear of being sued. My wife as experienced this as her condition causes severe muscle spasms and random, "phantom" pain. Doctors have become beyond reluctant to prescribe the type of drugs that will reduce these. Even when she goes in and asks for just 4 doses, they run backwards waving their hands. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pertinacious Tom 1,918 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 9 minutes ago, learningJ24 said: My wife as experienced this as her condition causes severe muscle spasms and random, "phantom" pain. Doctors have become beyond reluctant to prescribe the type of drugs that will reduce these. Even when she goes in and asks for just 4 doses, they run backwards waving their hands. Yep, we fixed that opioid epidemic good! Quote ... According to the lawsuits that four drug companies agreed to settle last week, the "opioid epidemic" was caused by overprescription of pain medication, which suggests that curtailing the supply of analgesics such as hydrocodone and oxycodone is the key to reducing opioid-related deaths. But that assumption has proven disastrously wrong, revealing how prohibition makes drug use deadlier. Per capita opioid prescriptions in the United States, which began rising in 2006, fell steadily after 2012, reflecting the impact of government efforts to restrict and discourage medical use of these drugs. Yet in 2019, when the dispensing rate was lower than it had been since 2005, the U.S. saw more opioid-related deaths than ever before. ... And the lawsuits are really helping. Quote Since 2014, thousands of state and local governments have sued pharmaceutical companies they blamed for causing the "opioid crisis" by exaggerating the benefits and minimizing the risks of prescription pain medication. Given the enormous volume of lawsuits and a pending $26 billion multi-jurisdictional settlement involving four of those companies, you might surmise that there must be something to this accusation. If so, you should read the 42-page ruling that a California judge issued yesterday in response to the lawsuit that started this flood of litigation. The details are indeed damning, but not in the way you might expect. Orange County Superior Court Judge Peter J. Wilson's scathing rejection of the case against four drug manufacturers highlights some of the misconceptions underlying the false narrative that blames pain treatment for a surge in opioid-related deaths that is better understood as a predictable result of the war on drugs. In a complaint that was originally filed seven years ago, Orange, Los Angeles, and Santa Clara counties, joined by the city of Oakland, argued that the companies they sued created a "public nuisance" by encouraging increased use of their products through a false or misleading marketing campaign. The four jurisdictions sought more than $50 billion in damages. Following a bench trial that began on April 19 and wrapped up at the beginning of last month, Wilson concluded that the plaintiffs had failed to prove any of their allegations. ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dacapo 1,571 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 On 10/21/2020 at 5:34 PM, Ishmael said: As long as it's some other person. And someone else’s responsibility Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badlatitude 4,192 Posted December 18, 2021 Author Share Posted December 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Surfer7 said: How come doctors - the ones who actually prescribed this stuff to patients - seem to have escaped this litigation? There is another side to our enthusiastic crusade to reduce opioid use. Patients who are dependent on the drugs to control pain are increasingly unable to legally obtain opioids that they have taken for years with ultimately disastrous results. When faced with reduced doses prescribed - or none at all - some of them turn to the "street" for an alternative. A substantial fraction of "opioid-related" deaths are from unwittingly taking fentanyl (or, worse still, carfentanyl) after trying to illegally buy hydrocodone, etc. At least, when you get it from the pharmacy, it's usually what it says it is. There are always unintended consequences. For those rejoicing this lawsuit: Just hope that you are never in such extreme pain, such as after a major surgery or an auto accident, but your doctor is reluctant to prescribe anything more powerful than OTC Tylenol due to fear of being sued. Some doctors were prosecuted, Dr. Barry Schultz, was given a 157 year sentence for operating a pill mill.Obviously, doctors carried responsibility, but the pill problem overwhelmed the system. It was easier to target the source, Purdue Pharma and its owners, the Sackler family. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer7 33 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, badlatitude said: Obviously, doctors carried responsibility Yep. And many doctors will be practicing CYA in the future, my wife (a nurse), says they already are, even when the patient desperately needs pain relief. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 8,366 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 1 hour ago, learningJ24 said: 1 hour ago, Surfer7 said: How come doctors - the ones who actually prescribed this stuff to patients - seem to have escaped this litigation? ... My wife as experienced this as her condition causes severe muscle spasms and random, "phantom" pain. Doctors have become beyond reluctant to prescribe the type of drugs that will reduce these. Even when she goes in and asks for just 4 doses, they run backwards waving their hands. Yes the DEA comes down really hard on docs they think are over-prescribing potential street drugs. REALLY hard. There's training upon training about how to deal with patients that are seen as "drug seekers." You really want to avoid being seen this way by your doctor. And lots of doctors have been caught up in the opioid over-prescription prosecution. They're not escaping shit. The Sacklers pushed entire books of false prescription guidelines to docs so they'd prescribe more oxycontin. Sales reps falsifying data, the whole nine yards. This is on top of manufacturing about ten times more of the stuff than there was any legitimate medical need for. We're just seeing more dishonesty from a nasty RWNJ troll. - DSK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badlatitude 4,192 Posted December 18, 2021 Author Share Posted December 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, Surfer7 said: Yep. And many doctors will be practicing CYA in the future, my wife (a nurse), says they already are, even when the patient desperately needs pain relief. They've been doing it awhile, I tore the meniscus in my knee, three years ago, the pain was awful, and I couldn't get a prescription stronger than Naproxen from the clinic, nor doctors I sailed with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 8,366 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, badlatitude said: They've been doing it awhile, I tore the meniscus in my knee, three years ago, the pain was awful, and I couldn't get a prescription stronger than Naproxen from the clinic, nor doctors I sailed with. DO NOT ask a doctor you know socially for a prescription for ANYthing, especially painkillers. Even if it's your brother. This is truly a fast track to being labelled a drug seeker. They cannot help you, to attempt to do so would risk destroying their career so you're putting them in a really bad spot by asking. This is partly another demonstration of how fucked up our health care system is. - DSK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer7 33 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 17 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said: Yes the DEA comes down really hard on docs they think are over-prescribing potential street drugs. REALLY hard. There's training upon training about how to deal with patients that are seen as "drug seekers." You really want to avoid being seen this way by your doctor. And lots of doctors have been caught up in the opioid over-prescription prosecution. They're not escaping shit. The Sacklers pushed entire books of false prescription guidelines to docs so they'd prescribe more oxycontin. Sales reps falsifying data, the whole nine yards. This is on top of manufacturing about ten times more of the stuff than there was any legitimate medical need for. We're just seeing more dishonesty from a nasty RWNJ troll. Yes. We now live in a utopian world where doctors always prescribe strong pain relief when needed. They have zero fear of negative repercussions. Here's an example of a troll that must be a druggie just wanting to get another "high" because his knee didn't really hurt much: 8 minutes ago, badlatitude said: They've been doing it awhile, I tore the meniscus in my knee, three years ago, the pain was awful, and I couldn't get a prescription stronger than Naproxen from the clinic, nor doctors I sailed with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badlatitude 4,192 Posted December 18, 2021 Author Share Posted December 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, Surfer7 said: Yes. We now live in a utopian world where doctors always prescribe strong pain relief when needed. They have zero fear of negative repercussions. Here's an example of a troll that must be a druggie just wanting to get another "high" because his knee didn't really hurt much: Here, you've earned this You've chosen to ignore content by Surfer7. Options Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badlatitude 4,192 Posted December 18, 2021 Author Share Posted December 18, 2021 9 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said: DO NOT ask a doctor you know socially for a prescription for ANYthing, especially painkillers. Even if it's your brother. This is truly a fast track to being labelled a drug seeker. They cannot help you, to attempt to do so would risk destroying their career so you're putting them in a really bad spot by asking. This is partly another demonstration of how fucked up our health care system is. - DSK So I learned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 8,366 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, badlatitude said: So I learned. Wish things were different, work to make things a little better. One of the things that irks me is that not one single person ever comes up with a way for doctors to spend LESS time dinking with a computer or filling out paperwork. Nobody sweats their way thru medical school and residency so they can ignore their patients and deny care. - DSK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badlatitude 4,192 Posted December 18, 2021 Author Share Posted December 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said: Wish things were different, work to make things a little better. One of the things that irks me is that not one single person ever comes up with a way for doctors to spend LESS time dinking with a computer or filling out paperwork. Nobody sweats their way thru medical school and residency so they can ignore their patients and deny care. - DSK This whole episode made me recall how pain was treated throughout history. In the 1800s we used morphine, codeine, heroin, and opium, probably addicting thousands in the process. Before that, it was herbal creations that probably didn't help much at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ventucky Red 1,100 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 24 minutes ago, badlatitude said: They've been doing it awhile, I tore the meniscus in my knee, three years ago, the pain was awful, and I couldn't get a prescription stronger than Naproxen from the clinic, nor doctors I sailed with. I would venture, most of the pain you experienced came from the subsequent inflammation from the tear, if anything you should have asked them to aspirate your knee - instant relief.. Was it a red zone or white zone tear? 19 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said: DO NOT ask a doctor you know socially for a prescription for ANYthing, especially painkillers. Even if it's your brother. This is truly a fast track to being labelled a drug seeker. They cannot help you, to attempt to do so would risk destroying their career so you're putting them in a really bad spot by asking. This is partly another demonstration of how fucked up our health care system is. - DSK This is addressed in the Medical Code of Ethics... Emergency situation, different, but anything else, they should refer you out, and 99.9999999% of the time they will. Your last sentence is really putting a generalization on all health care providers out there and this is not fair to many of the MD/DO, RN, PA, etc.... that work their asses off. Again, you show your anger and disdain for just about everything you can through shit at. Seek help for your anger issues, life is too short. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 8,366 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 1 minute ago, Ventucky Red said: ... Your last sentence is really putting a generalization on all health care providers out there and this is not fair to many of the MD/DO, RN, PA, etc.... that work their asses off. Again, you show your anger and disdain for just about everything you can through shit at. Seek help for your anger issues, life is too short. ?? WTF did I ever imply that docs, PAs, nurses, all health care are lazy, or were unwilling to help patients? I have a lot of disdain and disgust for YOU and your elk; especially your lack of reading skill and comprehension in general - DSK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ventucky Red 1,100 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said: ?? WTF did I ever imply that docs, PAs, nurses, all health care are lazy, or were unwilling to help patients? I have a lot of disdain and disgust for YOU and your elk; especially your lack of reading skill and comprehension in general - DSK Doesn't take much to trigger you, does it? This is usually the case with those that feel frustration from being blocked or thwarted their whole life and have a need to blame others for their mediocre achievements at best. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
benwynn 3,578 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 18 hours ago, Clove Hitch said: I'm not sure how much of the series "Dopesick" is true or not (excellent series, btw), but at the end when they put actual footage of the Sacklers from last year talking about how they did nothing wrong. ... .. those fucks are evil. And I don't suppose it's any coincidence they focused on a serious pain med. Treating pain is a nightmare and frequently a no-win situation. For example, I've had some tough told timer after a CABG who is breathing shallow and fast, in obvious significant pain due to literally every non-verbal sign, but refuses morphine. I point out that his O2 sat is 89- 90% because his cracked open sternum is stopping him from breathing properly and that pain relief is actually oxygen relief because he'll breath easier. And then you have the outright drug seekers. They have sweet talked their way into geting various "as needed" stuff and will set their phone alarms if they find out how often they can get in and will bitch to no end if you are 1 min late in showing up with their dope. Had one with a straight face tell me she wanted me to mix her IV Benadryl (which gets you high as fuck) with her IV morphine and slam it. Nurses will walk in to see them laughing at cat videos and munching on snacks- "What's your pain level?" -- "Oh, solid 10 out of 10." And, on the other hand, nurses and docs can't ever dismiss pain even from people who appear to be drug seekers because you'll have a case where some guy is complaining about vague flank pain along with all his other drug-seeking pain and then the scan will show tumor in the liver or something. I'm not sure there is any sort of shit Docs have to deal with that has so much grey-area as pain and Arthur Sackler is an M.D. so I bet he knew what kind of money he could squeeze out of such a difficult and nebulous phenomena as pain Had a friend who was a resident doctor in a New Jersey trauma ward. The drug seekers got so bad that they were taking his time away from the legitimate patients. (The place was kinda crazy sometimes.) He would basically ask them to stop with the bit, ask them what they were looking for, would prescribe it, then have them get the fuck out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badlatitude 4,192 Posted December 18, 2021 Author Share Posted December 18, 2021 29 minutes ago, Ventucky Red said: would venture, most of the pain you experienced came from the subsequent inflammation from the tear, if anything you should have asked them to aspirate your knee - instant relief.. Was it a red zone or white zone tear? White meniscus, once inflammation settled I was fine, just a lot of therapy and a variety of braces. Interesting to note, the doctor assigned to my therapy was a paraplegic, she was sheer genius, and I wanted to ask about her challenges, but you don't do that on an impersonal encounter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sol Rosenberg 10,096 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 1 hour ago, badlatitude said: Here, you've earned this You've chosen to ignore content by Surfer7. Options There’s a playbook. The five D’s. https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2021/12/trollfare-how-recognize-and-fight-online-psyops/359777/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 8,366 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 35 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said: There’s a playbook. The five D’s. https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2021/12/trollfare-how-recognize-and-fight-online-psyops/359777/ Should be six D's, they did not include Doggystylin' - DSK 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AJ Oliver 1,919 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said: One of the things that irks me is that not one single person ever comes up with a way for doctors to spend LESS time dinking with a computer or filling out paperwork. Shirley you jest. It's called M4A. It reduces admin costs and paperwork by a good 20 to 30 percent. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 8,366 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said: 1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said: One of the things that irks me is that not one single person ever comes up with a way for doctors to spend LESS time dinking with a computer or filling out paperwork. Shirley you jest. It's called M4A. It reduces admin costs and paperwork by a good 20 to 30 percent. . I don't know if that reduces load on the docs themselves, it certainly does remove a couple of layers of insurance company geeks causing hassle. Net gain IMHO - DSK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AJ Oliver 1,919 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said: I don't know if that reduces load on the docs themselves, it certainly does remove a couple of layers of insurance company geeks causing hassle. Net gain IMHO Well for what it is worth, I know several VA docs (I get my med care there) who said they switched from private practice to VA work because there is less paper work in the latter. The VA has some interesting time and labor savings devices for docs: For example, all your records, meds, are electronic - and can be accessed instantly via the internets at any VA facility in the country. This has pretty much solved the problems of over-medication or drug interactions. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ventucky Red 1,100 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 52 minutes ago, badlatitude said: White meniscus, once inflammation settled I was fine, just a lot of therapy and a variety of braces. Interesting to note, the doctor assigned to my therapy was a paraplegic, she was sheer genius, and I wanted to ask about her challenges, but you don't do that on an impersonal encounter. Glad to hear you're doing better... 55 minutes ago, benwynn said: Had a friend who was a resident doctor in a New Jersey trauma ward. The drug seekers got so bad that they were taking his time away from the legitimate patients. (The place was kinda crazy sometimes.) He would basically ask them to stop with the bit, ask them what they were looking for, would prescribe it, then have them get the fuck out. Surprised that they got past admitting and if they did, that their case was assigned to an MD at first. Yes, they do slip through the cracks for time and yes they can't turn them away, but after a while, they know who is who, and are escorted to the door. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AJ Oliver 1,919 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 But back to the OP. In several Ohio counties the quantities of opioids sold (many hundreds of pills per capita) were so large that the whole pharm network (makers, drug stores, sales, docs, pharmacists, etc) had to know that millions of pills were being sold by the patients on the black market. They just didn't care very much. It's not all on the Sackler's. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 8,366 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 11 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said: But back to the OP. In several Ohio counties the quantities of opioids sold (many hundreds of pills per capita) were so large that the whole pharm network (makers, drug stores, sales, docs, pharmacists, etc) had to know that millions of pills were being sold by the patients on the black market. They just didn't care very much. It's not all on the Sackler's. Agreed. No way in hell should they come out this not just above filthy rich but shielded. IMHO they should be reduced to sleeping under bridges and hiding from people whose families they've destroyed - DSK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
learningJ24 532 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 11 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said: But back to the OP. In several Ohio counties the quantities of opioids sold (many hundreds of pills per capita) were so large that the whole pharm network (makers, drug stores, sales, docs, pharmacists, etc) had to know that millions of pills were being sold by the patients on the black market. They just didn't care very much. It's not all on the Sackler's. Same thing here in a small, Native American community here. Something in the order of 400 doses per person per week prescribed. The distributor's defense was "Regulators should have caught it". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sol Rosenberg 10,096 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said: Should be six D's, they did not include Doggystylin' - DSK I think that pretty much all of those are key elements of the Doggy Style. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 12,534 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 I love this statement; "While the district court decision does not affect Purdue’s rock-solid operational stability or its ability to produce its many medications safely and effectively, it will delay, and perhaps end, the ability of creditors, communities, and individuals to receive billions in value to abate the opioid crisis," Purdue Chairman Steve Miller said in a statement. In other words "we're bankrupt because we're liable for uncounted $billions in reparations but this won't affect us, it will only hurt the 10's of thousands of our victims out there" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer7 33 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 Posted 6 hours ago My sarcasm was directed at Steam Flyer for "We're just seeing more dishonesty from a nasty RWNJ troll." but was apparently misinterpreted. Truthfully, I don't really care. The hatred is thick around here. 7 hours ago, Steam Flyer said: Yes the DEA comes down really hard on docs they think are over-prescribing potential street drugs. REALLY hard. There's training upon training about how to deal with patients that are seen as "drug seekers." You really want to avoid being seen this way by your doctor. And lots of doctors have been caught up in the opioid over-prescription prosecution. They're not escaping shit. The Sacklers pushed entire books of false prescription guidelines to docs so they'd prescribe more oxycontin. Sales reps falsifying data, the whole nine yards. This is on top of manufacturing about ten times more of the stuff than there was any legitimate medical need for. We're just seeing more dishonesty from a nasty RWNJ troll. Yes. We now live in a utopian world where doctors always prescribe strong pain relief when needed. They have zero fear of negative repercussions. <HEAVY SARCASM ON> Here's an example of a troll that must be a druggie just wanting to get another "high" because his knee didn't really hurt much: 7 hours ago, badlatitude said: They've been doing it awhile, I tore the meniscus in my knee, three years ago, the pain was awful, and I couldn't get a prescription stronger than Naproxen from the clinic, nor doctors I sailed with. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ventucky Red 1,100 Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 3 hours ago, Surfer7 said: <HEAVY SARCASM ON> Here's an example of a troll that must be a druggie just wanting to get another "high" because his knee didn't really hurt much: Any knee torn ligament/cartilage injuries are painful.. have had some women tell me they would take childbirth over a knee injury any day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Not for nothing 479 Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 I few things. How many pot smokers are in jail as we speak for doing a joint? And will these assholes get locked up? If you go to Canada (other Socialistic country) you pay 20 for insulin but here in the capitalist America, it's 300. Capitalism is great for the 1% and fuck the rest of us, Socialism is evil. Funny in 1967 I was drafted and went to Vietnam to fight the evils of Communism, all for the 1%ers, when Americans going to wake up, the republican party doesn't give a shit about us. I wonder how many GOPers did their time.? We all know the supreme king didn't go (fucking draft dodger) FYI my wife died of Oxycontin, but the doctors got their kickbacks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AJ Oliver 1,919 Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Not for nothing said: FYI my wife died of Oxycontin, but the doctors got their kickbacks! So very regretful about that - condolences from the SweetWater Seas and Vets For Peace Don't give up the fight 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer7 33 Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 6 hours ago, Ventucky Red said: Any knee torn ligament/cartilage injuries are painful.. have had some women tell me they would take childbirth over a knee injury any day. Of course they are and I'm sure badlatitude was genuinely in a lot of pain and needed and deserved the relief that an opioid can provide. I have had a surgery that required oxycontin for 1 week afterwards and fully appreciate the good that these drugs can do. It appears that my attempt at sarcasm intended for SteamFlyer (not badlatitude), and then to explain that it was sarcasm, failed. Such is the problem with this medium. No voice inflection or facial expressions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pertinacious Tom 1,918 Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 19 hours ago, badlatitude said: In the 1800s we used morphine, codeine, heroin, and opium, probably addicting thousands in the process. And that was brought to an end by the Pure Food and Drug Act. It turns out that people will swallow snake oil, but if you label it morphine they act differently and don't generally get addicted. Much like adequate pain meds would not have resulted in your addiction. 20 hours ago, badlatitude said: They've been doing it awhile, I tore the meniscus in my knee, three years ago, the pain was awful, and I couldn't get a prescription stronger than Naproxen from the clinic, nor doctors I sailed with. My wife tore hers when she was 17. The answer then? Remove the damaged part! It turns out that wandering around for decades without a meniscus is bad for your knee, resulting in two years of surgeries. Her doc was great and did not give a fuck what the DEA thought of his prescriptions. Possibly because he had a pic with her leg cut open and kneecap flapped aside. On my "can't be unseen" list. She did ultimately become dependent on the opioids for sleep, a problem that quickly went away once she no longer needed pain drugs. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pertinacious Tom 1,918 Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 20 hours ago, Steam Flyer said: This is on top of manufacturing about ten times more of the stuff than there was any legitimate medical need for. The fentanyl dynasties that have replaced them will no doubt be more sensitive to legit medical needs, and more accessible to law enforcement. Or maybe prohibition made a bad situation worse yet again. It's gotta be one or the other. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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