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$225 million fine for 450,000 dead, $13 billion net worth, what's wrong with that picture?


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This crime is one of the heinous in American history. Purdue and the Sacklers, should forfeit everything to the victims of these crimes.

Purdue Pharma, the maker of OxyContin, has agreed to plead guilty to criminal charges and face penalties of roughly $8.3 billion, the Justice Department announced on Wednesday, a move that could pave the way for a settlement of thousands of lawsuits brought against the company for its role in the opioids epidemic.

The company’s owners, members of the wealthy Sackler family, will pay $225 million in civil penalties. Federal prosecutors said the settlement did not preclude criminal charges against Purdue executives or individual Sacklers.

Wednesday’s announcement does not conclude the extensive litigation against Purdue, but it does represent a significant advance in the long legal march by states, cities and counties to compel the most prominent defendant in the opioid epidemic to help pay for the public health crisis that has resulted in the deaths of more than 450,000 Americans since 1999, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Still, it is unlikely the company will end up paying anything close to the $8 billion negotiated in the settlement deal. That is because it is in bankruptcy court and the federal government will have to take its place in a long line of creditors. Typically, creditors end up collecting pennies on the dollar.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/21/health/purdue-opioids-criminal-charges.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

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What probably hurts them the most is The Met peeling their name off of their (former) gallery.  Unlike Donnie, they tried to buy their way into high society.   They gave actual money.  Donnie thought he could bluff his way in.  

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Just a year ago, Purdue filed for bankruptcy protection putting an end to 2,000 lawsuits filed by local governments, Native American tribes, and states. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/16/oxycontin-maker-purdue-pharma-files-for-bankruptcy-protection.html?__s

Prior to that filing the Sackler family transferred as much of Purdue assets that they could to offshore banks. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/09/14/ny-attorney-general-exposes-billion-wire-transfers-by-sackler-family/

Mortimer D.A. Sackler has defended the offshore transfer of millions of dollars from the company to his family, calling them “perfectly legal and appropriate in every respect,” the Associated Press reported.

The Sackler family took care of their money before anyone made them pay up for their heinous crimes, and there is nothing they can do about it now. Now you know why people hate corporate America.

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In a similar vein, Exide has been able to shed any responsibility for cleaning up their battery recycling factory in LA. So clean up of heavy toxins is now left to the State of CA. Plant operated from 1922 to 2015, the last THIRTY YEARS on a "temporary" permit

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15 minutes ago, longy said:

In a similar vein, Exide has been able to shed any responsibility for cleaning up their battery recycling factory in LA. So clean up of heavy toxins is now left to the State of CA. Plant operated from 1922 to 2015, the last THIRTY YEARS on a "temporary" permit

Well dammit, they have a duty to THE STOCKHOLDERS, man!

- DSK

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1 hour ago, longy said:

In a similar vein, Exide has been able to shed any responsibility for cleaning up their battery recycling factory in LA. So clean up of heavy toxins is now left to the State of CA. Plant operated from 1922 to 2015, the last THIRTY YEARS on a "temporary" permit

There will be a Blue Ribbon Panel discussion, five other sound byte interviews and then it falls to the wayside.  Then, there is a super fund cleanup once those that make the final decision on who gets the contract are assured their pockets are well lined.. 

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3 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Just a year ago, Purdue filed for bankruptcy protection putting an end to 2,000 lawsuits filed by local governments, Native American tribes, and states.

If college kids can't file for bankruptcy, criminals shouldn't be able to either.

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18 minutes ago, Jules said:

If college kids can't file for bankruptcy, criminals shouldn't be able to either.

I am not an attorney, but I do know this could possibly be an act of fraudulent conveyance. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fraudulentconveyance.asp

Naturally, if your bank account says $13 billion, you can afford the best talent in the nation to hide those transactions, so don't expect much.

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The Justice Department? on Wednesday?

Purdue Pharma, the maker of OxyContin, has agreed to plead guilty to criminal charges and face penalties of roughly $8.3 billion, the Justice Department announced on Wednesday, a move that could pave the way for a settlement of thousands of lawsuits brought against the company for its role in the opioids epidemic.

****

Wednesday’s announcement does not conclude the extensive litigation against Purdue

Isn't anyone's cynicism klaxon screaming? 

Just wait for the Trump's next rally.

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10 hours ago, nacradriver said:
12 hours ago, longy said:

In a similar vein, Exide has been able to shed any responsibility for cleaning up their battery recycling factory in LA. So clean up of heavy toxins is now left to the State of CA. Plant operated from 1922 to 2015, the last THIRTY YEARS on a "temporary" permit

There will be a Blue Ribbon Panel discussion, five other sound byte interviews and then it falls to the wayside.  Then, there is a super fund cleanup once those that make the final decision on who gets the contract are assured their pockets are well lined.. 

Unfortunately I think you're right, if it gets addressed at all.

Perhaps we should just be thankful that our goddam intrusive regulations kept Bhopal from happening here.

- DSK

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Unfortunately I think you're right, if it gets addressed at all.

Perhaps we should just be thankful that our goddam intrusive regulations kept Bhopal from happening here.

- DSK

Add up all the micro disasters and the long term affects in the US and Bhopal was nothing...  half of these sites are the result of the government or the government turning their head until they got caught with their pants dawn.

https://www.epa.gov/superfund/search-superfund-sites-where-you-live

 

 

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18 minutes ago, nacradriver said:

Add up all the micro disasters and the long term affects in the US and Bhopal was nothing...  half of these sites are the result of the government or the government turning their head until they got caught with their pants dawn.

https://www.epa.gov/superfund/search-superfund-sites-where-you-live

 

 

:lol:

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38 minutes ago, nacradriver said:
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Unfortunately I think you're right, if it gets addressed at all.

Perhaps we should just be thankful that our goddam intrusive regulations kept Bhopal from happening here.

 

Add up all the micro disasters and the long term affects in the US and Bhopal was nothing...  half of these sites are the result of the government or the government turning their head until they got caught with their pants dawn.

https://www.epa.gov/superfund/search-superfund-sites-where-you-live

I think that there is even more day-to-day pollution in other countries, but I agree with you that long term effects of smaller scale have been as bad or worse than the headline disasters. I also agree that there is definitely such a thing as over-regulation.

In an era when political compromise is toxic itself, how do we make some real improvements on this issue? Because we really need to!

- DSK

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14 hours ago, toad said:

so guy selling smack is evil pusher, however put on a suit give it a label and youre good to go

They're called Tobacco executives aren't they?

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31 minutes ago, nacradriver said:

There you go you go fixed..

So by that logic, every donation to Republicans is a bribe too, right?  Or is this just a unique standard applied to Democrats?

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  • 1 year later...

I'm not sure how much of the series "Dopesick" is true or not (excellent series, btw), but at the end when they put actual footage of the Sacklers from last year talking about how they did nothing wrong. ... ..  those fucks are evil.

 

And I don't suppose it's any coincidence they focused on a serious pain med.  Treating pain is a nightmare and frequently a no-win situation.  For example, I've had some tough told timer after a CABG who is breathing shallow and fast, in obvious  significant pain due to literally every non-verbal sign, but refuses morphine.  I point out that his O2 sat is 89- 90% because his cracked open sternum is stopping him from breathing properly and that pain relief is actually oxygen relief because he'll breath easier.   

And then you have the outright drug seekers.  They have sweet talked their way into geting various "as needed" stuff and will set their phone alarms if they find out how often they can get in and will bitch to no end if you are 1 min late in showing up with their dope. Had one with a straight face tell me she wanted me to mix her IV Benadryl (which gets you high as fuck) with her IV morphine and slam it.  Nurses will walk in to see them laughing at cat videos and munching on snacks- "What's your pain level?"  -- "Oh, solid 10 out of 10."      And, on the other hand, nurses and docs can't ever dismiss pain even from people who appear to be drug seekers because you'll have a case where some guy is complaining about vague flank pain along with all his other drug-seeking pain and then the scan will show tumor in the liver or something. 

 

I'm not sure there is any sort of shit Docs have to deal with that has so much grey-area as pain and Arthur Sackler is an M.D. so I bet he knew what kind of money he could squeeze out of such a difficult and nebulous phenomena as pain

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On 10/21/2020 at 2:59 PM, badlatitude said:

This crime is one of the heinous in American history. Purdue and the Sacklers, should forfeit everything to the victims of these crimes.

Purdue Pharma, the maker of OxyContin, has agreed to plead guilty to criminal charges and face penalties of roughly $8.3 billion, the Justice Department announced on Wednesday, a move that could pave the way for a settlement of thousands of lawsuits brought against the company for its role in the opioids epidemic.

The company’s owners, members of the wealthy Sackler family, will pay $225 million in civil penalties. Federal prosecutors said the settlement did not preclude criminal charges against Purdue executives or individual Sacklers.

Wednesday’s announcement does not conclude the extensive litigation against Purdue, but it does represent a significant advance in the long legal march by states, cities and counties to compel the most prominent defendant in the opioid epidemic to help pay for the public health crisis that has resulted in the deaths of more than 450,000 Americans since 1999, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Still, it is unlikely the company will end up paying anything close to the $8 billion negotiated in the settlement deal. That is because it is in bankruptcy court and the federal government will have to take its place in a long line of creditors. Typically, creditors end up collecting pennies on the dollar.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/21/health/purdue-opioids-criminal-charges.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

How come doctors - the ones who actually prescribed this stuff to patients - seem to have escaped this litigation?

There is another side to our enthusiastic crusade to reduce opioid use.  Patients who are dependent on the drugs to control pain are increasingly unable to legally obtain opioids that they have taken for years with ultimately disastrous results.  When faced with reduced doses prescribed - or none at all - some of them turn to the "street" for an alternative.  A substantial fraction of "opioid-related" deaths are from unwittingly taking fentanyl (or, worse still, carfentanyl) after trying to illegally buy hydrocodone, etc.  At least, when you get it from the pharmacy, it's usually what it says it is.

There are always unintended consequences.

For those rejoicing this lawsuit: Just hope that you are never in such extreme pain, such as after a major surgery or an auto accident, but your doctor is reluctant to prescribe anything more powerful than OTC Tylenol due to fear of being sued.

 

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4 minutes ago, Surfer7 said:

How come doctors - the ones who actually prescribed this stuff to patients - seem to have escaped this litigation?

There is another side to our enthusiastic crusade to reduce opioid use.  Patients who are dependent on the drugs to control pain are increasingly unable to legally obtain opioids that they have taken for years with ultimately disastrous results.  When faced with reduced doses prescribed - or none at all - some of them turn to the "street" for an alternative.  A substantial fraction of "opioid-related" deaths are from unwittingly taking fentanyl (or, worse still, carfentanyl) after trying to illegally buy hydrocodone, etc.  At least, when you get it from the pharmacy, it's usually what it says it is.

There are always unintended consequences.

For those rejoicing this lawsuit: Just hope that you are never in such extreme pain, such as after a major surgery or an auto accident, but your doctor is reluctant to prescribe anything more powerful than Tylenol due to fear of being sued.

 

My wife as experienced this as her condition causes severe muscle spasms and random, "phantom" pain.  Doctors have become beyond reluctant to prescribe the type of drugs that will reduce these.  Even when she goes in and asks for just 4 doses, they run backwards waving their hands.

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9 minutes ago, learningJ24 said:

My wife as experienced this as her condition causes severe muscle spasms and random, "phantom" pain.  Doctors have become beyond reluctant to prescribe the type of drugs that will reduce these.  Even when she goes in and asks for just 4 doses, they run backwards waving their hands.

Yep, we fixed that opioid epidemic good!
 

Quote

 

...

According to the lawsuits that four drug companies agreed to settle last week, the "opioid epidemic" was caused by overprescription of pain medication, which suggests that curtailing the supply of analgesics such as hydrocodone and oxycodone is the key to reducing opioid-related deaths. But that assumption has proven disastrously wrong, revealing how prohibition makes drug use deadlier.

Per capita opioid prescriptions in the United States, which began rising in 2006, fell steadily after 2012, reflecting the impact of government efforts to restrict and discourage medical use of these drugs. Yet in 2019, when the dispensing rate was lower than it had been since 2005, the U.S. saw more opioid-related deaths than ever before.

...

 

And the lawsuits are really helping.
 

Quote

 

Since 2014, thousands of state and local governments have sued pharmaceutical companies they blamed for causing the "opioid crisis" by exaggerating the benefits and minimizing the risks of prescription pain medication. Given the enormous volume of lawsuits and a pending $26 billion multi-jurisdictional settlement involving four of those companies, you might surmise that there must be something to this accusation. If so, you should read the 42-page ruling that a California judge issued yesterday in response to the lawsuit that started this flood of litigation.

The details are indeed damning, but not in the way you might expect. Orange County Superior Court Judge Peter J. Wilson's scathing rejection of the case against four drug manufacturers highlights some of the misconceptions underlying the false narrative that blames pain treatment for a surge in opioid-related deaths that is better understood as a predictable result of the war on drugs.

In a complaint that was originally filed seven years ago, Orange, Los Angeles, and Santa Clara counties, joined by the city of Oakland, argued that the companies they sued created a "public nuisance" by encouraging increased use of their products through a false or misleading marketing campaign. The four jurisdictions sought more than $50 billion in damages. Following a bench trial that began on April 19 and wrapped up at the beginning of last month, Wilson concluded that the plaintiffs had failed to prove any of their allegations.

...

 

 

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1 hour ago, Surfer7 said:

How come doctors - the ones who actually prescribed this stuff to patients - seem to have escaped this litigation?

There is another side to our enthusiastic crusade to reduce opioid use.  Patients who are dependent on the drugs to control pain are increasingly unable to legally obtain opioids that they have taken for years with ultimately disastrous results.  When faced with reduced doses prescribed - or none at all - some of them turn to the "street" for an alternative.  A substantial fraction of "opioid-related" deaths are from unwittingly taking fentanyl (or, worse still, carfentanyl) after trying to illegally buy hydrocodone, etc.  At least, when you get it from the pharmacy, it's usually what it says it is.

There are always unintended consequences.

For those rejoicing this lawsuit: Just hope that you are never in such extreme pain, such as after a major surgery or an auto accident, but your doctor is reluctant to prescribe anything more powerful than OTC Tylenol due to fear of being sued.

 

Some doctors were prosecuted, Dr. Barry Schultz, was given a 157 year sentence for operating a pill mill.Obviously, doctors carried responsibility, but the pill problem overwhelmed the system. It was easier to target the source, Purdue Pharma and its owners, the Sackler family.

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1 hour ago, learningJ24 said:
1 hour ago, Surfer7 said:

How come doctors - the ones who actually prescribed this stuff to patients - seem to have escaped this litigation?

...

My wife as experienced this as her condition causes severe muscle spasms and random, "phantom" pain.  Doctors have become beyond reluctant to prescribe the type of drugs that will reduce these.  Even when she goes in and asks for just 4 doses, they run backwards waving their hands.

 

Yes the DEA comes down really hard on docs they think are over-prescribing potential street drugs. REALLY hard. There's training upon training about how to deal with patients that are seen as "drug seekers." You really want to avoid being seen this way by your doctor.

And lots of doctors have been caught up in the opioid over-prescription prosecution. They're not escaping shit. The Sacklers pushed entire books of false prescription guidelines to docs so they'd prescribe more oxycontin. Sales reps falsifying data, the whole nine yards. This is on top of manufacturing about ten times more of the stuff than there was any legitimate medical need for.

We're just seeing more dishonesty from a nasty RWNJ troll.

- DSK

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Surfer7 said:

Yep.  And many doctors will be practicing CYA in the future, my wife (a nurse), says they already are, even when the patient desperately needs pain relief.

They've been doing it awhile, I tore the meniscus in my knee, three years ago, the pain was awful, and I couldn't get a prescription stronger than Naproxen from the clinic, nor doctors I sailed with.

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4 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

They've been doing it awhile, I tore the meniscus in my knee, three years ago, the pain was awful, and I couldn't get a prescription stronger than Naproxen from the clinic, nor doctors I sailed with.

DO NOT ask a doctor you know socially for a prescription for ANYthing, especially painkillers. Even if it's your brother. This is truly a fast track to being labelled a drug seeker. They cannot help you, to attempt to do so would risk destroying their career so you're putting them in a really bad spot by asking.

This is partly another demonstration of how fucked up our health care system is.

- DSK

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17 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yes the DEA comes down really hard on docs they think are over-prescribing potential street drugs. REALLY hard. There's training upon training about how to deal with patients that are seen as "drug seekers." You really want to avoid being seen this way by your doctor.

And lots of doctors have been caught up in the opioid over-prescription prosecution. They're not escaping shit. The Sacklers pushed entire books of false prescription guidelines to docs so they'd prescribe more oxycontin. Sales reps falsifying data, the whole nine yards. This is on top of manufacturing about ten times more of the stuff than there was any legitimate medical need for.

We're just seeing more dishonesty from a nasty RWNJ troll.

Yes. We now live in a utopian world where doctors always prescribe strong pain relief when needed. They have zero fear of negative repercussions.

Here's an example of a troll that must be a druggie just wanting to get another "high" because his knee didn't really hurt much:

8 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

They've been doing it awhile, I tore the meniscus in my knee, three years ago, the pain was awful, and I couldn't get a prescription stronger than Naproxen from the clinic, nor doctors I sailed with.

 

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3 minutes ago, Surfer7 said:

Yes. We now live in a utopian world where doctors always prescribe strong pain relief when needed. They have zero fear of negative repercussions.

Here's an example of a troll that must be a druggie just wanting to get another "high" because his knee didn't really hurt much:

 

Here, you've earned this You've chosen to ignore content by Surfer7. Options 

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9 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

DO NOT ask a doctor you know socially for a prescription for ANYthing, especially painkillers. Even if it's your brother. This is truly a fast track to being labelled a drug seeker. They cannot help you, to attempt to do so would risk destroying their career so you're putting them in a really bad spot by asking.

This is partly another demonstration of how fucked up our health care system is.

- DSK

So I learned.

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8 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

So I learned.

Wish things were different, work to make things a little better.

One of the things that irks me is that not one single person ever comes up with a way for doctors to spend LESS time dinking with a computer or filling out paperwork. Nobody sweats their way thru medical school and residency so they can ignore their patients and deny care.

- DSK

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4 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Wish things were different, work to make things a little better.

One of the things that irks me is that not one single person ever comes up with a way for doctors to spend LESS time dinking with a computer or filling out paperwork. Nobody sweats their way thru medical school and residency so they can ignore their patients and deny care.

- DSK

This whole episode made me recall how pain was treated throughout history. In the 1800s we used morphine, codeine, heroin, and opium, probably addicting thousands in the process. Before that, it was herbal creations that probably didn't help much at all.

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24 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

They've been doing it awhile, I tore the meniscus in my knee, three years ago, the pain was awful, and I couldn't get a prescription stronger than Naproxen from the clinic, nor doctors I sailed with.

I would venture, most of the pain you experienced came from the subsequent inflammation from the tear, if anything you should have asked them to aspirate your knee - instant relief..    Was it a red zone or white zone tear? 

19 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

DO NOT ask a doctor you know socially for a prescription for ANYthing, especially painkillers. Even if it's your brother. This is truly a fast track to being labelled a drug seeker. They cannot help you, to attempt to do so would risk destroying their career so you're putting them in a really bad spot by asking.

This is partly another demonstration of how fucked up our health care system is.

- DSK

This is addressed in the Medical Code of Ethics...  Emergency situation, different, but anything else, they should refer you out, and 99.9999999% of the time they will. 

Your last sentence is really putting a generalization on all health care providers out there and this is not fair to many of the MD/DO, RN, PA, etc.... that work their asses off.  Again, you show your anger and disdain for just about everything you can through shit at.   Seek help for your anger issues, life is too short.

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1 minute ago, Ventucky Red said:

...

Your last sentence is really putting a generalization on all health care providers out there and this is not fair to many of the MD/DO, RN, PA, etc.... that work their asses off.  Again, you show your anger and disdain for just about everything you can through shit at.   Seek help for your anger issues, life is too short.

?? WTF did I ever imply that docs, PAs, nurses, all health care are lazy, or were unwilling to help patients?

I have a lot of disdain and disgust for YOU and your elk; especially your lack of reading skill and comprehension in general

- DSK

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5 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

?? WTF did I ever imply that docs, PAs, nurses, all health care are lazy, or were unwilling to help patients?

I have a lot of disdain and disgust for YOU and your elk; especially your lack of reading skill and comprehension in general

- DSK

Doesn't take much to trigger you, does it?  This is usually the case with those that feel frustration from being blocked or thwarted their whole life and have a need to blame others for their mediocre achievements at best.

 

 

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18 hours ago, Clove Hitch said:

I'm not sure how much of the series "Dopesick" is true or not (excellent series, btw), but at the end when they put actual footage of the Sacklers from last year talking about how they did nothing wrong. ... ..  those fucks are evil.

 

And I don't suppose it's any coincidence they focused on a serious pain med.  Treating pain is a nightmare and frequently a no-win situation.  For example, I've had some tough told timer after a CABG who is breathing shallow and fast, in obvious  significant pain due to literally every non-verbal sign, but refuses morphine.  I point out that his O2 sat is 89- 90% because his cracked open sternum is stopping him from breathing properly and that pain relief is actually oxygen relief because he'll breath easier.   

And then you have the outright drug seekers.  They have sweet talked their way into geting various "as needed" stuff and will set their phone alarms if they find out how often they can get in and will bitch to no end if you are 1 min late in showing up with their dope. Had one with a straight face tell me she wanted me to mix her IV Benadryl (which gets you high as fuck) with her IV morphine and slam it.  Nurses will walk in to see them laughing at cat videos and munching on snacks- "What's your pain level?"  -- "Oh, solid 10 out of 10."      And, on the other hand, nurses and docs can't ever dismiss pain even from people who appear to be drug seekers because you'll have a case where some guy is complaining about vague flank pain along with all his other drug-seeking pain and then the scan will show tumor in the liver or something. 

 

I'm not sure there is any sort of shit Docs have to deal with that has so much grey-area as pain and Arthur Sackler is an M.D. so I bet he knew what kind of money he could squeeze out of such a difficult and nebulous phenomena as pain

Had a friend who was a resident doctor in a New Jersey trauma ward.   The drug seekers got so bad that they were taking his time away from the legitimate patients. (The place was kinda crazy sometimes.)  He would basically ask them to stop with the bit, ask them what they were looking for, would prescribe it, then have them get the fuck out.  

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29 minutes ago, Ventucky Red said:

would venture, most of the pain you experienced came from the subsequent inflammation from the tear, if anything you should have asked them to aspirate your knee - instant relief..    Was it a red zone or white zone tear? 

White meniscus, once inflammation settled I was fine, just a lot of therapy and a variety of braces. Interesting to note, the doctor assigned to my therapy was a paraplegic, she was sheer genius, and I wanted to ask about her challenges, but you don't do that on an impersonal encounter.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

One of the things that irks me is that not one single person ever comes up with a way for doctors to spend LESS time dinking with a computer or filling out paperwork.

Shirley you jest. It's called M4A. 

It reduces admin costs and paperwork by a good 20 to 30 percent. .  

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2 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

One of the things that irks me is that not one single person ever comes up with a way for doctors to spend LESS time dinking with a computer or filling out paperwork.

Shirley you jest. It's called M4A. 

It reduces admin costs and paperwork by a good 20 to 30 percent. .  

I don't know if that reduces load on the docs themselves, it certainly does remove a couple of layers of insurance company geeks causing hassle. Net gain IMHO

- DSK

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I don't know if that reduces load on the docs themselves, it certainly does remove a couple of layers of insurance company geeks causing hassle. Net gain IMHO

Well for what it is worth, I know several VA docs (I get my med care there) who said they switched from private practice to VA work because there is less paper work in the latter. The VA has some interesting time and labor savings devices for docs: For example, all your records, meds, are electronic - and can be accessed instantly via the internets at any VA facility in the country. This has pretty much solved the problems of over-medication or drug interactions. 

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52 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

White meniscus, once inflammation settled I was fine, just a lot of therapy and a variety of braces. Interesting to note, the doctor assigned to my therapy was a paraplegic, she was sheer genius, and I wanted to ask about her challenges, but you don't do that on an impersonal encounter.

Glad to hear you're doing better... 

55 minutes ago, benwynn said:

Had a friend who was a resident doctor in a New Jersey trauma ward.   The drug seekers got so bad that they were taking his time away from the legitimate patients. (The place was kinda crazy sometimes.)  He would basically ask them to stop with the bit, ask them what they were looking for, would prescribe it, then have them get the fuck out.  

Surprised that they got past admitting and if they did, that their case was assigned to an MD at first.

Yes, they do slip through the cracks for time and yes they can't turn them away, but after a while, they know who is who, and are escorted to the door.

 

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But back to the OP. 

In several Ohio counties the quantities of opioids sold (many hundreds of pills per capita) 

were so large that the whole pharm network (makers, drug stores, sales, docs, pharmacists, etc) 

had to know that millions of pills were being sold by the patients on the black market. 

They just didn't care very much. 

It's not all on the Sackler's. 

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11 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

But back to the OP. 

In several Ohio counties the quantities of opioids sold (many hundreds of pills per capita) 

were so large that the whole pharm network (makers, drug stores, sales, docs, pharmacists, etc) 

had to know that millions of pills were being sold by the patients on the black market. 

They just didn't care very much. 

It's not all on the Sackler's. 

Agreed.

No way in hell should they come out this not just above filthy rich but shielded. IMHO they should be reduced to sleeping under bridges and hiding from people whose families they've destroyed

- DSK

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11 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

But back to the OP. 

In several Ohio counties the quantities of opioids sold (many hundreds of pills per capita) 

were so large that the whole pharm network (makers, drug stores, sales, docs, pharmacists, etc) 

had to know that millions of pills were being sold by the patients on the black market. 

They just didn't care very much. 

It's not all on the Sackler's. 

Same thing here in a small, Native American community here.  Something in the order of 400 doses per person per week prescribed. The distributor's defense was "Regulators should have caught it".

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I love this statement;

"While the district court decision does not affect Purdue’s rock-solid operational stability or its ability to produce its many medications safely and effectively, it will delay, and perhaps end, the ability of creditors, communities, and individuals to receive billions in value to abate the opioid crisis," Purdue Chairman Steve Miller said in a statement.

In other words "we're bankrupt because we're liable for uncounted $billions in reparations but this won't affect us, it will only hurt the 10's of thousands of our victims out there"

:rolleyes:

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Posted 6 hours ago

My sarcasm was directed at Steam Flyer for "We're just seeing more dishonesty from a nasty RWNJ troll." but was apparently misinterpreted. Truthfully, I don't really care. The hatred is thick around here.

   7 hours ago,  Steam Flyer said: 

Yes the DEA comes down really hard on docs they think are over-prescribing potential street drugs. REALLY hard. There's training upon training about how to deal with patients that are seen as "drug seekers." You really want to avoid being seen this way by your doctor.

And lots of doctors have been caught up in the opioid over-prescription prosecution. They're not escaping shit. The Sacklers pushed entire books of false prescription guidelines to docs so they'd prescribe more oxycontin. Sales reps falsifying data, the whole nine yards. This is on top of manufacturing about ten times more of the stuff than there was any legitimate medical need for.

We're just seeing more dishonesty from a nasty RWNJ troll.

Yes. We now live in a utopian world where doctors always prescribe strong pain relief when needed. They have zero fear of negative repercussions.

 

<HEAVY SARCASM ON>

Here's an example of a troll that must be a druggie just wanting to get another "high" because his knee didn't really hurt much:

   7 hours ago,  badlatitude said: 

They've been doing it awhile, I tore the meniscus in my knee, three years ago, the pain was awful, and I couldn't get a prescription stronger than Naproxen from the clinic, nor doctors I sailed with.

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3 hours ago, Surfer7 said:

<HEAVY SARCASM ON>

Here's an example of a troll that must be a druggie just wanting to get another "high" because his knee didn't really hurt much:

Any knee torn ligament/cartilage injuries are painful.. have had some women tell me they would take childbirth over a knee injury any day.

 

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I few things. How many pot smokers are in jail as we speak for doing a joint? And will these assholes get locked up? 

 

If you go to Canada (other Socialistic country) you pay 20 for insulin but here in the capitalist America, it's 300.

Capitalism is great for the 1% and fuck the rest of us, Socialism is evil.

Funny in 1967 I was drafted and went to Vietnam to fight the evils of Communism, all for the 1%ers, when Americans going to wake up, the republican party doesn't give a shit about us. I wonder how many GOPers did their time.? We all know the supreme king didn't go (fucking draft dodger)

FYI my wife died of Oxycontin, but the doctors got their kickbacks!

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1 hour ago, Not for nothing said:

FYI my wife died of Oxycontin, but the doctors got their kickbacks!

So very regretful about that - condolences from the SweetWater Seas 

and Vets For Peace 

Don't give up the fight

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6 hours ago, Ventucky Red said:

Any knee torn ligament/cartilage injuries are painful.. have had some women tell me they would take childbirth over a knee injury any day.

Of course they are and I'm sure badlatitude was genuinely in a lot of pain and needed and deserved the relief that an opioid can provide. I have had a surgery that required oxycontin for 1 week afterwards and fully appreciate the good that these drugs can do.

It appears that my attempt at sarcasm intended for SteamFlyer (not badlatitude), and then to explain that it was sarcasm, failed. Such is the problem with this medium. No voice inflection or facial expressions.

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19 hours ago, badlatitude said:

In the 1800s we used morphine, codeine, heroin, and opium, probably addicting thousands in the process.

And that was brought to an end by the Pure Food and Drug Act. It turns out that people will swallow snake oil, but if you label it morphine they act differently and don't generally get addicted. Much like adequate pain meds would not have resulted in your addiction.

 

20 hours ago, badlatitude said:

They've been doing it awhile, I tore the meniscus in my knee, three years ago, the pain was awful, and I couldn't get a prescription stronger than Naproxen from the clinic, nor doctors I sailed with.

My wife tore hers when she was 17. The answer then? Remove the damaged part!

It turns out that wandering around for decades without a meniscus is bad for your knee, resulting in two years of surgeries. Her doc was great and did not give a fuck what the DEA thought of his prescriptions. Possibly because he had a pic with her leg cut open and kneecap flapped aside. On my "can't be unseen" list.

She did ultimately become dependent on the opioids for sleep, a problem that quickly went away once she no longer needed pain drugs.

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20 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

This is on top of manufacturing about ten times more of the stuff than there was any legitimate medical need for.

The fentanyl dynasties that have replaced them will no doubt be more sensitive to legit medical needs, and more accessible to law enforcement.

Or maybe prohibition made a bad situation worse yet again. It's gotta be one or the other.

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