Jump to content

Frozen transmission flange on a prop shaft


Recommended Posts

I've been there a couple of times and made an extractor.  It is just a piece of steel plate that matches the bolt pattern of the flange and which is threaded in the center for a large bolt that can push on the prop shaft.  You can make this with a hand drill as long as you have steel approximately the right size.

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Alex W said:

I've been there a couple of times and made an extractor.  It is just a piece of steel plate that matches the bolt pattern of the flange and which is threaded in the center for a large bolt that can push on the prop shaft.  You can make this with a hand drill as long as you have steel approximately the right size.

I don’t necessarily know if I have that kind of time I guess I do this is a job for someone else not my boat  I guess worst case scenario’s tomorrow I try to come up with some sort of extractor or gear puller that fits in the slot there I have about 8 inches of room

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another option which I've done with some success is to put something like a long socket that's a little smaller in diameter than the prop shaft into the coupling between the shaft and the transmission, then put a few long bolts back in and use them to pull the coupling back together - the socket should push the shaft out.  It may take a few tries / few different sockets to get it, but you can do it with parts on hand and no custom machining.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a 30 minute project with a hand drill, 15 with a drill press.  Bill them for the time and materials.

Most yards that I've seen will just cut the prop shaft and install a whole new prop shaft for $500.  Even if you spend an hour building an extractor you'll save money for your client.

The extractor that I described will easily fit in 8".  Mine has about a 3" extractor bolt, so it fits in 3 inches.

hdra's method should also work.  I've heard that one but forgot about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have  plan. What are the old guys next to me in the boat yard goes simple. Take a socket which is slightly smaller than the shaft and the flange and put it Up against nat the shaft and the transmission flange. I went to Lowe’s and got four bolts with the same threads but 3 inches longer.  And I sprayed the hell out of it with PB blaster. In the morning I’m going to tighten the ball slowly one at a time pushing the face of the prop shaft out with the socket In the morning I’m going to tighten the ball slowly one at a time pushing the face of the prop shaft out with the socket The flat side of the socket will be against the transmission flange so I don’t ding it up I think this is going to work The flat side of the socket will be against the transmission flange so I don’t ding it up I think this is going to work 
I hope so I have to get this PSS AAA shaft seal on and put back together because the boat is going through a survey in a sea trial on Monday for a new perspective owner. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hdra said:

Another option which I've done with some success is to put something like a long socket that's a little smaller in diameter than the prop shaft into the coupling between the shaft and the transmission, then put a few long bolts back in and use them to pull the coupling back together - the socket should push the shaft out.  It may take a few tries / few different sockets to get it, but you can do it with parts on hand and no custom machining.

Bingo I posted my reply before reading yours exactly when I’m going to do

Link to post
Share on other sites

Passenger side when I told the owner that I was having difficulty and he asked what was the problem was and I explain it to him he says “oh..... that that rusty metal part... In 30 years I don’t think it’s ever been apart” B)

Link to post
Share on other sites

When I took mine off last summer it took a week of heat and penetrant and tightening bolts on the puller.

I worked out later that I gained about 1/8" per hour.

If it's yours it's worth the time, if someone is paying, cut the fucker off - I'd cut the coupler though, not the shaft - they are a bit cheaper.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you do the socket trick make sure you grease or lube the bolt threads well. Nothing worse than hauled bolts plus the stuck coupling.  I would snug all of them put some heat on it and use a small sledge on the coupling shoulder and repeat.  Just be careful the coupling faces are not made to take the fore aft stress so don't hit with anything and don't go crazy on torque. You can beat on the body as much as you want.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the socket trick but don’t want to see you crack or even warp those flanges.

 

generally... once apart... wire brushing the parts to make them clean and pretty also heats up those parts. 

if you can hold a spinning wire brush on the fitting while it is under pressure with the socket / bolt trick.... 

that extra heat , the PB blaster you soaked it with , and the tap tap tap of your hammer just might combine to make the thing let go 

 

a $39 porter cable heat Gun can make that chunk of metal too hot to touch in just a few minutes. 
*******

one time I removed a stuck prop on a 3/4 shaft by loading five 1” zincs on the shaft, taped together to make a slide hammer and dropping them the four feet down the shaft about ten times. 
 

if you  have some bigger zincs available  Maybe you could make a little slide hammer  and whack that sucker off 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Had to remove mine to get the shaft out for straightening.  It 'wuz frozen  on pretty bad but a few good swings with a hammer and it broke in two and was easily removed:huh:.  Turns out the coupler was no longer available, casting and machining a duplicate would cost major $$$. The guys at Boatswain's Locker searched the world for two weeks and found a NOS coupler in Brazil, four weeks total delay.  I paid 'em 50 bucks extra for their diligence; those guys are good!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Let me tell you the tail of a flange that wouldn’t come off

so after trying heat after trying a little impact after trying the bolts and socket trick nothing

the. Owner gave me the go ahead to cut the fucker with a grinder and order a new prop shaft  

which was good because after I cut the shaft and had it removed it in all about five minutes and brought it to the proper machine shop The owner of the shop said there was no way in hell I was removing the flange from this bronze prop shaft. The milled steel flange and bronze prop shaft fused  together and the key in the keyway was mushed up and was not going to free itself  and they had to use a hydraulic press hundreds of pounds of pressure to remove it.  So a little bit of redemption to the fact that I cannot get it off myself

after getting the prop shaft two days ago I had to start the process of reinstalling it which means removing the rudder. Yep you guessed it that was another day i’m dropping the F bomb every five minutes. There’s no access from the cockpit to the rotor shaft or the steering quadrant unless you’re an Oompa Loompa. That’s the removal of the afterbirth we are bulkhead and the removal of the water tank which Intel removing three or 4 gallons of antifreeze that was lying in the bottom of the tank which now is lying in the bottom of the bilge. Of course the steering quadrant and the bolts holding the quadrant to the prop shaft being stainless steel in aluminum where once again frozen together. This time however with enough leverage, heat, and PB blaster we were able to remove the steering quadrant and loosen up the rotor shaft for removal today. The whole assembly process is going to take an hour it’s taking me 3 1/2 days to get to this point motherfucker. The new owner of this boat is going to have a new Cutlass bearing new prop shaft new pss drip less shaft seal, a perfectly aligned transmission any new thermostat for the hot water heater which I broke accidentally. I am return got some money and learned some curse words in Norwegian. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You have just described the biggest obstacle to making money working on forty year old four knot shitboxes.

There isn’t a reason in the world those of us who fix these old toys should go off the clock and spend our own money to repair these boats. 
 

it is absolutely unreasonable to even consider doing anything but stopping, picking up the phone, and saying, “This problem is going to take a few days to solve.”

The discussion should include the hourly rate and an understanding NOBODY KNOWS how long it will take because it is IMPOSSIBLE to accurately predict the cost of solving problems before those problems become apparent. 
 

You described days of work much of which required expertise which took many years to develop. Your price range should be similar to other professionals whose necessary  expertise is well known to take years of training.

$100-$250 per hour seems about right.

Why am I writing this?? 
EVERY TIME I NEED TO PAY TO GET SOMETHING DONE THE ADULTS  IN THE REAL WORLD CHARGE ME AS DESCRIBED ABOVE. 
 

It is time to join the real world with boat repairmen’s  pricing. 
 

My guess is a whole lot of old sailboats in my community are beyond their practical service life. I plan to offer “haul it to the dump” as an option early and often in my future estimates. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Youse guys have perfectly illustrated the reason I passed on several boats that I seriously lusted after.

No access for service of maintenance items.

The first thing I look at now when starting to examine a boat is the accessibility of maintenance items. If access to steering, seacocks, plumbing etc. requires destructive measures I pass on the boat.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, dacapo said:

Let me tell you the tail of a flange that wouldn’t come off

so after trying heat after trying a little impact after trying the bolts and socket trick nothing

the. Owner gave me the go ahead to cut the fucker with a grinder and order a new prop shaft  

which was good because after I cut the shaft and had it removed it in all about five minutes and brought it to the proper machine shop The owner of the shop said there was no way in hell I was removing the flange from this bronze prop shaft. The milled steel flange and bronze prop shaft fused  together and the key in the keyway was mushed up and was not going to free itself  and they had to use a hydraulic press hundreds of pounds of pressure to remove it.  So a little bit of redemption to the fact that I cannot get it off myself

after getting the prop shaft two days ago I had to start the process of reinstalling it which means removing the rudder. Yep you guessed it that was another day i’m dropping the F bomb every five minutes. There’s no access from the cockpit to the rotor shaft or the steering quadrant unless you’re an Oompa Loompa. That’s the removal of the afterbirth we are bulkhead and the removal of the water tank which Intel removing three or 4 gallons of antifreeze that was lying in the bottom of the tank which now is lying in the bottom of the bilge. Of course the steering quadrant and the bolts holding the quadrant to the prop shaft being stainless steel in aluminum where once again frozen together. This time however with enough leverage, heat, and PB blaster we were able to remove the steering quadrant and loosen up the rotor shaft for removal today. The whole assembly process is going to take an hour it’s taking me 3 1/2 days to get to this point motherfucker. The new owner of this boat is going to have a new Cutlass bearing new prop shaft new pss drip less shaft seal, a perfectly aligned transmission any new thermostat for the hot water heater which I broke accidentally. I am return got some money and learned some curse words in Norwegian. 

Sounds like faen, I mean fun..

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Sounds like faen, I mean fun..

went to bed last night with the rudder sitting on a 2x6 over the hole I dug.  Well, someone hit the board and the rudder fell into the hole which was a few inches too shallow.  Wedged in there like 2 fats guys trying to squeeze into  the door of an all you can eat pizza parlor at the same time..............I had to call in the big guns and hire the travel lift operator to lift the boat...boat rose 2 feet and out came the rudder...5 minutes to push the new shaft in and another 15 min to wiggle the rudder shaft back into place as the travel lift lowered the boat back down onto its stands..........ill put the boat back together tomorrow

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Youse guys have perfectly illustrated the reason I passed on several boats that I seriously lusted after.

No access for service of maintenance items.

The first thing I look at now when starting to examine a boat is the accessibility of maintenance items. If access to steering, seacocks, plumbing etc. requires destructive measures I pass on the boat.

You guys perfectly illustrate the reasons I have a machine shop so I don't have to get others to suffer on my behalf.

Also why I built my own boat so as to avoid a lot of this sort of shit.

One tip though - using a heat gun or similar slow heat is useless IMO. The POINT of applying heat is to get the flange to expand faster than the shaft and to do that you need to get it hot before the shaft starts getting hot. If they heat at about the same rate it's a waste of time basically unless they're different metals with quite different expansion coefficients. Better to use an oxy-acetylene torch (and yeah you do need a really good fire watch/extinguisher handy) get the flange hot while it's under load from the puller. Wait for the 'crack' as it lets go. If it doesn't then spray liberally with penetrant and allow to cool then try again.

When your patience is exhausted there's always the angle grinder...

Got a boat coming out next week needing work on its rudder bushings. It's a 250kg rudder...

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Zonker said:

Steel rudder?

Yes off of a 45 tonne 60' boat. Needs work on the rudder bushings - bit too tight as the plastic took up a bit more water & expanded more than the theory (and material suppliers) said. I made a lot of the bits a few years ago but had nothing to do with specifying the bushing clearances.

Far more interesting work than fucking about with some little toy thing. I had the fun of machining up all the new gearbox flanges and prop flanges to fit the Cardan shaft between the gearbox and prop shaft. Similar setup to how my boat is set up except a hell of a lot bigger parts. Doing the internal 20mm square female keyways inside the couplings was a PITA.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...