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Admiral Hornblower

"Is the LP Laser gonna make it?"

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Other people may make boats called Torch or ILCA but the original Laser will never die.  

 

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The original laser class ( ILCA ) will never die . 
 

Not so sure about LPE and it’s bastard child class association. Lol 

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It's only a matter of time before LP and Laser stop production on the Laser.  Since new ones don't have a plaque, they're going to lean on the new class association and recreational sailors.  They won't have much of a chance.  Any racer will buy an ILCA.

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1 hour ago, WCB said:

It's only a matter of time before LP and Laser stop production on the Laser.  Since new ones don't have a plaque, they're going to lean on the new class association and recreational sailors.  They won't have much of a chance.  Any racer will buy an ILCA.

And if you really want to hasten the death of the Laser, why not convert your real Laser into a fake ILCA with this free decal?

199159456_ScreenShot2020-10-25at10_34_19PM.thumb.png.35f0fe4f274a270720334caa6cac3dda.png 
 

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1 hour ago, WCB said:

It's only a matter of time before LP and Laser stop production on the Laser.  Since new ones don't have a plaque, they're going to lean on the new class association and recreational sailors.  They won't have much of a chance.  Any racer will buy an ILCA.

It might help is some day they actually had boats here to deliver

"Please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery.
Sales Team will contact you regarding shipping this order"
 
And also might help if they had parts in stock
 
"CHECK AVAILABILITY"
"SOLD OUT"
 
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1 hour ago, tillerman said:

And if you really want to hasten the death of the Laser, why not convert your real Laser into a fake ILCA with this free decal?

199159456_ScreenShot2020-10-25at10_34_19PM.thumb.png.35f0fe4f274a270720334caa6cac3dda.png 
 

Well that's no challenge...I have a vinyl cutter in my office.  I think the ISAF sticker is the one they'll be looking for.

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51 minutes ago, VWAP said:

It might help is some day they actually had boats here to deliver

"Please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery.
Sales Team will contact you regarding shipping this order"
 
And also might help if they had parts in stock
 
"CHECK AVAILABILITY"
"SOLD OUT"
 

Totally agreed.  We reached out to a retailer about buying ten Bugs from LP and we were warned against it due to lack of delivery, lack of complete boats when delivered...etc.  They gave us better options.  At some point this will come to an end...

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Their first AGM was Saturday and they didn’t make the grade for WS on Sunday. Bad start. 

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LP plant in Portugal is closed. I don't know if they build lasers elsewhere, but definitely not there.

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Just saw this.. Good deals on all LP clearance sale, shipping to Spain a bit steep: 

https://www.sailboats.co.uk/sale/laserperformance-clearance?fbclid=IwAR0Tm3zZXMPAzoXSEpFqnMGLNFAPde8rN0pLTaOvU2FKEuxKINb_3uQJF0Y

And you can get a full PSA ILCA with all the goddies (carbon top and tiller, etc...) for 7k quid... Doesn't look as bad as they say

ilca.png.7c56c9e3c8406d667dfd30d1051cc991.png

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3 hours ago, chuso007 said:

LP plant in Portugal is closed. I don't know if they build lasers elsewhere, but definitely not there.

The end of an era. R.I.P the Laser. Long live the ILCA.

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I also heard the Portuguese town of Setúbal is suing ILCA for this (they put a lot of money into bringing the plant there...) Does anybody know if this is actually true? I don't know how they could be held responsible even if they kicked LP as builders.

 

Note: this is just gossip heard at the club from a Portuguese sailor this weekend...

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5 hours ago, chuso007 said:

LP plant in Portugal is closed. I don't know if they build lasers elsewhere, but definitely not there.

That didn't take long...

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There's a shop in the NE blowing out new "lasers" for $ 4,999.00.  Put a for sale post on The Laser Forum.  With Portugal shut down this must be the last gasp?

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Lasers are like cockroaches; they can't be killed and they will never die.  Just you wait and see LOL.

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16 minutes ago, Wess said:

Lasers are like cockroaches; they can't be killed and they will never die.  Just you wait and see LOL.

An ILCA by any other name is still a Laser

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29 minutes ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

https://www.velasailingsupply.com/laser-performance-laser-radial-race-version

Like this? Are these boats class legal? If so, maybe this is the time to buy new lasers!:unsure: $8000 vs $6000...

“Please call to confirm the stock availability”. Highly unlikely.
These are the LP boats that are not ILCA legal. I don’t believe any have ever actually made it over the pond. 

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1 hour ago, Bill5 said:

An ILCA by any other name is just a wildly over priced super expensive Laser

FIFY.

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Just now, Wess said:

You are right, Bill.

FIFY

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27 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

FIFY

He's sad.  48,000 words of bullshit didn't seem to keep LP from failing.

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4 hours ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

https://www.velasailingsupply.com/laser-performance-laser-radial-race-version

Like this? Are these boats class legal? If so, maybe this is the time to buy new lasers!:unsure: $8000 vs $6000...

No...those are not class legal unless sailed in a non-class sanctioned event against older Lasers and new ILCAs.  It's all about the ISAF sticker.

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9 hours ago, chuso007 said:

Just saw this.. Good deals on all LP clearance sale, shipping to Spain a bit steep: 

https://www.sailboats.co.uk/sale/laserperformance-clearance?fbclid=IwAR0Tm3zZXMPAzoXSEpFqnMGLNFAPde8rN0pLTaOvU2FKEuxKINb_3uQJF0Y

And you can get a full PSA ILCA with all the goddies (carbon top and tiller, etc...) for 7k quid... Doesn't look as bad as they say

ilca.png.7c56c9e3c8406d667dfd30d1051cc991.png

That is astronomically expensive for piece of chop strand polyester shit.

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50 minutes ago, Major Tom said:

That is astronomically expensive for piece of chop strand polyester shit.

+1

https://www.sailboats.co.uk/laser-harken-xd-kicker-top-bloc

And for a dinky little block like that, we're supposed to pay the equivalent of $40?! and that's the sale price.

Absolutely ridiculous! And if you want to buy the same article from a different but not Class "' approved" company, its illegal. Convenient.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 

End of rant:)

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1 hour ago, Major Tom said:

That is astronomically expensive for piece of chop strand polyester shit.

But it does have a World Sailing sticker.

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17 minutes ago, tillerman said:

But it does have a World Sailing sticker.

Well then that is astronomically expensive for a world sailing sticker stuck on a piece of chop strand polyester shit! 

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5 hours ago, Bill5 said:

FIFY

LOL I told you I had you hooked. The fishing is too easy.  Fruit fly is hooked bad and the most fun to play with but you and Clean are up there too.  Robbie coming on strong.  I mean as we descend into winter and more and more covidiocy what else is there to do!?  :ph34r:

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44 minutes ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

+1

https://www.sailboats.co.uk/laser-harken-xd-kicker-top-bloc

And for a dinky little block like that, we're supposed to pay the equivalent of $40?! and that's the sale price.

Absolutely ridiculous! And if you want to buy the same article from a different but not Class "' approved" company, its illegal. Convenient.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 

End of rant:)

It's not an "ILCA-only" part. This particular fitting is useful for lots of boats. Below is from Harken's catalog. Allen offer a much slicker one - no becket - for only $145 if you really want to be cool. The only true ILCA-specific fitting Harken make is the lower vang fitting.  

image.png.6c24ce17a987ef1d9916e35e4d7cbe5e.png

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23 minutes ago, Wess said:

LOL I told you I had you hooked. The fishing is too easy.  Fruit fly is hooked bad and the most fun to play with but you and Clean are up there too.  Robbie coming on strong.  I mean as we descend into winter and more and more covidiocy what else is there to do!?  :ph34r:

Different thread, different hook. 

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54 minutes ago, Major Tom said:

Well then that is astronomically expensive for a world sailing sticker stuck on a piece of chop strand polyester shit! 

Not quite as many Sonnets in the neighborhood. Nice looking boat, though. 

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2 hours ago, Major Tom said:

That is astronomically expensive for piece of chop strand polyester shit.

I totally agree, but I was told this weekend that ILCA boats were over 9.000€ and 7.000 looked good...

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18 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

It's not an "ILCA-only" part. This particular fitting is useful for lots of boats. Below is from Harken's catalog. Allen offer a much slicker one - no becket - for only $145 if you really want to be cool. The only true ILCA-specific fitting Harken make is the lower vang fitting.  

image.png.6c24ce17a987ef1d9916e35e4d7cbe5e.png

Knock it off with legitimate  facts 

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16 minutes ago, VWAP said:

Knock it off with legitimate  facts 

Sorry...

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35 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

I totally agree, but I was told this weekend that ILCA boats were over 9.000€ and 7.000 looked good...

you were also told that the a city is going to sue ILCA for laser performance shutting their factory, weren't you? Same source?

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26 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

you were also told that the a city is going to sue ILCA for laser performance shutting their factory, weren't you? Same source?

Yup, but as I said before, dock gossip...

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Am no expert but I have never heard of any European law that would allow this kind of litigation.

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LOL lawyers suck. Especially the bald ones. What did Don Henley sing? 

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3 hours ago, Xeon said:

Am no expert but I have never heard of any European law that would allow this kind of litigation.

I have no idea whether there's any truth in that rumour. I tend to doubt it.

What follows is guaranteed 100% pure speculation with not even a trace of a rumour to support it. But if LP had signed a contract with a city guaranteeing that a subsidised factory would remain active for a minimum length of time, and it were closed earlier than that, then wouldn't ordinary contract law be enough to support litigation? But I am decidedly not a lawyer, so am most probably wrong, and it's pure unfounded speculation to even suggest such a situation might exist anyway. 

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There are some Portuguese news articles about the LP campus below. They suggest LP has promised to invest 8M Euros to build it out.
The scale of it seems pretty impressive if they did a full build out.  


I haven't heard anything in the dealer network / supply chain, aside from unofficial confirmation that production was moving to Portugal from the UK.
I know LP ownership keeps this stuff pretty close to their chest, so, I'd probably be the last to know.


I'm living pretty close to here at the moment, so, I am planning to stop by in a week or two and say hello, see for myself.

 

(Use Google Chrome to convert to English, unless you know Portugese)

https://www.osetubalense.com/sociedade/2020/03/24/laserperformance-investe-8-milhoes-de-euros-em-setubal-ate-2021/

https://diariodistrito.pt/setubal-nova-fabrica-da-laserperformance-vai-avancar/

https://www.adn-agenciadenoticias.com/2020/06/ps-anuncia-nova-fabrica-da.html

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9 hours ago, Xeon said:

Am no expert but I have never heard of any European law that would allow this kind of litigation.

I was going to say exactly what JimC said... If they signed a contract of some sort it could be litigated, although I'm pretty sure that that contract would be between the city and LP, not ILCA.

Again, I have no facts, just pure speculation.

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pretty simple for ILCA in any case... they offered LP a builders contract, LP declined and started their own class association :p

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7 hours ago, WestCoast said:

There are some Portuguese news articles about the LP campus below. They suggest LP has promised to invest 8M Euros to build it out.
The scale of it seems pretty impressive if they did a full build out.  


I haven't heard anything in the dealer network / supply chain, aside from unofficial confirmation that production was moving to Portugal from the UK.
I know LP ownership keeps this stuff pretty close to their chest, so, I'd probably be the last to know.


I'm living pretty close to here at the moment, so, I am planning to stop by in a week or two and say hello, see for myself.

 

(Use Google Chrome to convert to English, unless you know Portugese)

https://www.osetubalense.com/sociedade/2020/03/24/laserperformance-investe-8-milhoes-de-euros-em-setubal-ate-2021/

https://diariodistrito.pt/setubal-nova-fabrica-da-laserperformance-vai-avancar/

https://www.adn-agenciadenoticias.com/2020/06/ps-anuncia-nova-fabrica-da.html

I visited Portugal a year ago.  I was able to make contact via email with a representative at the plant.  I asked if I could visit to see how Lasers were built.  The reply was "Sorry we only build 420's here".  I asked if I could come see anyway and received no further reply.  Portugal is AWESOME by the way.

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Do European countries play the same game with corporations that we do here in the US?  Relocate here with all these big promises of high-paying jobs, and we'll grant you all these tax breaks and incentives?  With very few exceptions (BMW in South Carolina comes to mind), they never play out as promised.  I think it's a slap in the face to existing businesses that have been employing people and paying taxes locally for years.

Dell played that game near a while back, but only stayed a couple of years.  The local government was able to get some of their incentive money back.

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2 hours ago, torrid said:

Do European countries play the same game with corporations that we do here in the US?  Relocate here with all these big promises of high-paying jobs, and we'll grant you all these tax breaks and incentives?  With very few exceptions (BMW in South Carolina comes to mind), they never play out as promised.  I think it's a slap in the face to existing businesses that have been employing people and paying taxes locally for years.

Dell played that game near a while back, but only stayed a couple of years.  The local government was able to get some of their incentive money back.

Big time, and not only mone, also free land, roads, cheaper energy....

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Unless ILCA were party to the contract, I can’t see how they could possibly be dragged into this. And the chance of LP and ILCA teaming up on anything is zero.

But LP and Rastegar might be in a spot of bother. But Rastegar has been in more lawsuits than the number of boats he has sold in NA over the past couple years. So totally his comfort zone. 

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What a perfect thread!!

50 posts on a subject no one comprehends by folks who have no facts upon which to base anything 

love this place!!! 

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5 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

What a perfect thread!!

50 posts on a subject no one comprehends by folks who have no facts upon which to base anything 

love this place!!! 

You don't want too many facts! The more variables and unknowns the better! Variables, unknowns and guesswork are the necessary components of reckless discussion. Just ask Wess.

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34 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

50 posts on a subject no one comprehends by folks who have no facts upon which to base anything 

When did anyone around here ever let something like facts get in the way?!?

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1 hour ago, Gouvernail said:

What a perfect thread!!

50 posts on a subject no one comprehends by folks who have no facts upon which to base anything 

love this place!!! 

Best Of Homer Simpson | Simpsons quotes, Simpsons meme, Homer simpson

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17 hours ago, RobbieB said:

I visited Portugal a year ago.  I was able to make contact via email with a representative at the plant.  I asked if I could visit to see how Lasers were built.  The reply was "Sorry we only build 420's here".  I asked if I could come see anyway and received no further reply.  Portugal is AWESOME by the way.

The plan was to do 420 (Z and C) first, get that going, then move Sunfish and then Laser there.
I doubt there was any desire to do any of the plastic boats and have rotomolding machines.  
But, from what I've heard, Sunfish is happening there (interesting, since there is little European demand for this model), and that Laser is close.

I believe the UK factory gets shut down and turned into housing/redevelopment.
(Screenshot attached of the Long Buckby factory with For Rent signs.)


Again, that is all held close to the chest there, but an 8M Euros corporate campus is...   yeah, that doesn't happen in the small boat industry.
That is a totally different scale/planet.


 

Screen_Shot_2020-10-28_at_5_46.24_AM.png

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Stopped by their new factory in Portugal (~30 minutes outside Lisbon)

I didn't set up an appointment to see inside (if they are evening allowing guests).
But, they do have a building and people were working.

 

 

LP_Factory_Nov_10.JPG

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Working on both sides of the building? The question is if they are building lasers or other stuff...

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Is the enviro park going to be built around this spectacular structure?

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On 11/12/2020 at 8:32 AM, chuso007 said:

Working on both sides of the building? The question is if they are building lasers or other stuff...

There are two, identical buildings next to each other, but, they only appear to have the one.

There are 420s in the back, and a bunch of tooling on the side. I saw one dude in a Tyvek suit walking around, but again, didn't go inside.
I'm asking the powers that be for a tour, but, I doubt it's a priority for them right now.

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