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43 minutes ago, Monkey said:

While we’re on the subject, what does everyone think about the waste of useable space carrying life jackets?  

If you actually wear them, there is no wasted space

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Also required in SC 27 Class Rules: 

IX. Equipment
Boats shall be raced with a Danforth 8 lb. anchor or equivalent, 20' of 1/4" chain,
150' of 7/16" nylon line, and life jackets for the entire crew. All boats must race
with lifelines and bow pulpits, 18'' minimum height.
Lifelines shall be a minimum of 1/8” stranded stainless wire or 5/32” single
braided UHMWPE line (e.g., Dyneema), be continuous and shall not sag more
than 4” with a 5 lb. load applied halfway between the stanchions.
Forward (V-Berth) bunk cushions shall not be required to remain in place while
racing.

Sailing instructions for regattas will sometimes let class rules supersede PHRF equipment rules.  In any case, it looks like you need to carry an anchor. 

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Sorry - War story warning!

Several years ago - 20 to be exact - we were one of the smaller boats in Div 1 at my old club in Scotland. First leg was upwind (not a lot of breeze) but down tide (more than a lot). As the faster? boats ahead of us got to the mark and tried to turn back up tide they kept going in the same direction except their bows were orientated differently :-). Seeing what was happening I got my crew to prepare the anchor and as we rounded the mark we dropped the anchor before we even thought about hoisting the kite. We weren't going anywhere but at least we weren't increasing the distance to the next mark. Up went the kite and we crept forward to above the anchor so it was 'weighed'. Forward motion stopped so it was lowered to the seabed. Each time we made 'way' over the seabed we sailed until the chain went vertical then 'weighed', when the 'way ' ceased we lowered.(Obviously we lost some ground as the chain established the catenary)  We also moved the crew. One (naturally) on the bow handling the anchor and watching transits to confirm forward motion, one mid bow and one at the mast with only my 15 year old daughter in the cockpit doing the helming. One of the advantages of an old Quarter Tonners they are relatively trim sensitive and we were told the yachts behind (and getting further behind) could see the rear of our keel root out of the water. We were a country mile ahead and one of the lowest handicapped boats in the fleet was heading for line honours when the bastards (the race committee - and I am kidding) abandoned the race.

I am kidding of course as the next leg would have been across the ebb tide and would have seen us heading towards Norway like the rest of fleet. A small moment of glory but we would have been with the rest of them had we not had an anchor on board - and an anchor that would hold us against the ebb. Instead we had but a short motor back to the marina and we DID win the race to bar at the end of the day.

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We won a couple of big boat races by a couple of hours by using an anchor at a mark with A 3kt current on the nose and   zero wind. The racing rules allow you to anchor to prevent backwards drift. 
 

You wait for the current wind to give you a hand around the mark or start line. You pull the anchor when you are sailing. We had two anchors on board. The cruising & the racing. The racing was optimised for weight. It was the smallest anchor that would hold I light air with no chain. You could throw it pretty far. The bow guy would chuck it as far as possible. We’d get her moving sailing up to the anchor. He’d pull it and throw it again . Repeat until you’ve snuck around the mark.

Beyond that anchors are a required safety item when racing. Maybe even a coast guard requirement as well as the knife, flares, bucket, pfd. 

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I had a 'racing' anchor a few years ago and was delivering from boston to greenport. With a wind shift near block we had to letterbox the kite, and in all the excitement as we dropped sails no one looked to see where the tack line had ended up. It ended up around the sail drive. Ok, we're in about 20' of water and getting blown away from great salt pond so I call for the "anchor." we couldn't even get it to the sea bed - we were drifting so fast in the conditions that we couldn't pay out the rode fast enough. We put the jib up and tacked our way into the pond, picked up a mooring, I went over the side and cleared the line so we could motor into a slip at the basin.

When a friend of mine was selling a proper sized anchor and rode, I snapped it up. sure it's heavier, but when you need it, you need it and you want to rely on it.

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56 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Sorry - War story warning!

Several years ago - 20 to be exact - we were one of the smaller boats in Div 1 at my old club in Scotland. First leg was upwind (not a lot of breeze) but down tide (more than a lot). As the faster? boats ahead of us got to the mark and tried to turn back up tide they kept going in the same direction except their bows were orientated differently :-). Seeing what was happening I got my crew to prepare the anchor and as we rounded the mark we dropped the anchor before we even thought about hoisting the kite. We weren't going anywhere but at least we weren't increasing the distance to the next mark. Up went the kite and we crept forward to above the anchor so it was 'weighed'. Forward motion stopped so it was lowered to the seabed. Each time we made 'way' over the seabed we sailed until the chain went vertical then 'weighed', when the 'way ' ceased we lowered.(Obviously we lost some ground as the chain established the catenary)  We also moved the crew. One (naturally) on the bow handling the anchor and watching transits to confirm forward motion, one mid bow and one at the mast with only my 15 year old daughter in the cockpit doing the helming. One of the advantages of an old Quarter Tonners they are relatively trim sensitive and we were told the yachts behind (and getting further behind) could see the rear of our keel root out of the water. We were a country mile ahead and one of the lowest handicapped boats in the fleet was heading for line honours when the bastards (the race committee - and I am kidding) abandoned the race.

I am kidding of course as the next leg would have been across the ebb tide and would have seen us heading towards Norway like the rest of fleet. A small moment of glory but we would have been with the rest of them had we not had an anchor on board - and an anchor that would hold us against the ebb. Instead we had but a short motor back to the marina and we DID win the race to bar at the end of the day.

trust you were not Kedging ... <_<

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57 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

 Instead we had but a short motor back to the marina and we DID win the race to bar at the end of the day.

Really the only race that matters!

There used to be a race from the Solent, around Alderney and back again when I was  a youngster.  If you missed the tide gate, it was drop the hook and wait six hours or so in a ripping tide.

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Cowes Week one year leading in class - X99.

Had to anchor 3 boat lengths from the finish. First little puff that got the boat moving forward led to 2 crew pulling like crazy on the warp. The momentum was enough to continue the slingshot over the line for the gun and a sly chuckle from the finish boat.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

An aluminium Fortress copy of a Danforth for my boat weighs less than a case of beer.

what's more for a ULDB they are surprisingly effective .

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5 hours ago, CaptainAhab said:

We won a couple of big boat races by a couple of hours by using an anchor at a mark with A 3kt current on the nose and   zero wind. The racing rules allow you to anchor to prevent backwards drift. (but not to make forward way)
 

You wait for the current wind to give you a hand around the mark or start line. You pull the anchor when you are sailing. We had two anchors on board. The cruising & the racing. The racing was optimised for weight. It was the smallest anchor that would hold I light air with no chain. You could throw it pretty far. The bow guy would chuck it as far as possible. We’d get her moving sailing up to the anchor. He’d pull it and throw it again . Repeat until you’ve snuck around the mark.

I'm too lazy to pull out my rule book, but that activity is called "kedging" and it is illegal in the RRS.

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2 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

Hmm. Then you are buying the wrong beer!

So I decided to look into it...for a couple of reasons...all on a hypothetical basis because in the real world, unless my ground tackle could guarantee retrieval of the case of beer, there’s now way I would risk 24 beers just to place or finish a race...or even avoid rocks for that matter. Too risky.

Id rather exhaust all possibilities and look around the boat for some less valuable dead weight that might double as an anchor first.

For point of future reference, these guys have 24 12oz cans at around 20lbs and 24 bottles goes up to a probably more secure 36lbs...hypothetically speaking of course...but still good info to have in the back pocket.

https://www.survivaltechshop.com/case-of-beer-weight/

...sorry where were we?...

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23 minutes ago, Somebody Else said:

I'm too lazy to pull out my rule book, but that activity is called "kedging" and it is illegal in the RRS.

Kedging is throwing the anchor and pulling on it. We throw, hook, sail by it, pick it up. 
 

Definitions, Racing

Rule 23, Capsized, Anchored or Aground; Rescuing

Rule 42.1, Propulsion: Basic Rule

Rule 45, Hauling Out; Making Fast; Anchoring

A boat that is anchored during a race is still racing. A boat does not break rule 42.1 or rule 45 if, while pulling in her anchor line to recover the anchor, she returns to her position at the time the anchor was lowered. However, if pulling in the anchor line clearly propels her to a different position, she breaks those rules.

Facts

In races when the first leg is a beat to windward against adverse current and the wind is very light, some boats anchor at or near the starting line to prevent the current from sweeping them downwind. When the wind freshens or the current eases, they pull up their anchors and start to sail.
 

Question 1

Is a boat that is anchored still "racing" as the term is used in the preamble to Part 4?


Answer 1

Yes. In the preamble to Part 4, the word "racing" is printed in bold italics and, therefore, it is being used in the sense stated in the Definitions (see Terminology in the Introduction). The definition Racing makes no mention of a boat that is anchored, aground, capsized or otherwise not progressing in the race. Therefore anchored boats are still "racing", which means that they are protected by rule 23 and governed by the racing rules including rules 42.1 and 45.

 

Question 2

Is a boat required to sail to a point above her anchor before she pulls it up, or can she recover her anchor even if the action of pulling in the anchor line results in her being propelled through the water or over the bottom?
 

Answer 2

Actions that are permitted by rule 45 are exceptions to rule 42.1. Rule 45 permits boats to anchor. To anchor a boat in a seamanlike way, additional anchor line must be let out after the anchor touches the bottom. Rule 45 requires boats to recover their anchors before continuing in the race unless unable to do so. To recover an anchor, it is first necessary to pull in the additional line, and that action will move the boat to a point above the anchor. As this action is permitted by rule 45, it does not break rule 42.1.

 

However, if the additional line is pulled in so forcefully or rapidly that after the anchor is lifted off the bottom the boat clearly has been propelled to a different position from where the anchor was lowered, she has continued in the race before recovering her anchor, and her action breaks both rule 42.1 and rule 45.

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10 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

Really the only race that matters!

There used to be a race from the Solent, around Alderney and back again when I was  a youngster.  If you missed the tide gate, it was drop the hook and wait six hours or so in a ripping tide.

Same when cruising the West Coast of Scotland - if you want to go North and the tide is ebbing, you drop the hook, put the kettle on and get a good book out.

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11 hours ago, Mid said:

trust you were not Kedging ... <_<

ha - ha, I do know the rules Mid. Read what I wrote "we sailed until the chain went vertical then 'weighed'," That is not kedging he he. It WAS bloody hard work on the guy on the bow. Lifted the anchor more in an hour or so than you would usually do all season.

Captain Ahab got it right in his post 28

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6 hours ago, CaptainAhab said:

Kedging is throwing the anchor and pulling on it. We throw, hook, sail by it, pick it up. 
 

Definitions, Racing

Rule 23, Capsized, Anchored or Aground; Rescuing

Rule 42.1, Propulsion: Basic Rule

Rule 45, Hauling Out; Making Fast; Anchoring

A boat that is anchored during a race is still racing. A boat does not break rule 42.1 or rule 45 if, while pulling in her anchor line to recover the anchor, she returns to her position at the time the anchor was lowered. However, if pulling in the anchor line clearly propels her to a different position, she breaks those rules.

Facts

In races when the first leg is a beat to windward against adverse current and the wind is very light, some boats anchor at or near the starting line to prevent the current from sweeping them downwind. When the wind freshens or the current eases, they pull up their anchors and start to sail.
 

Question 1

Is a boat that is anchored still "racing" as the term is used in the preamble to Part 4?


Answer 1

Yes. In the preamble to Part 4, the word "racing" is printed in bold italics and, therefore, it is being used in the sense stated in the Definitions (see Terminology in the Introduction). The definition Racing makes no mention of a boat that is anchored, aground, capsized or otherwise not progressing in the race. Therefore anchored boats are still "racing", which means that they are protected by rule 23 and governed by the racing rules including rules 42.1 and 45.

 

Question 2

Is a boat required to sail to a point above her anchor before she pulls it up, or can she recover her anchor even if the action of pulling in the anchor line results in her being propelled through the water or over the bottom?
 

Answer 2

Actions that are permitted by rule 45 are exceptions to rule 42.1. Rule 45 permits boats to anchor. To anchor a boat in a seamanlike way, additional anchor line must be let out after the anchor touches the bottom. Rule 45 requires boats to recover their anchors before continuing in the race unless unable to do so. To recover an anchor, it is first necessary to pull in the additional line, and that action will move the boat to a point above the anchor. As this action is permitted by rule 45, it does not break rule 42.1.

 

However, if the additional line is pulled in so forcefully or rapidly that after the anchor is lifted off the bottom the boat clearly has been propelled to a different position from where the anchor was lowered, she has continued in the race before recovering her anchor, and her action breaks both rule 42.1 and rule 45.

If you chuck the anchor way ahead of the boat, and sail up to it, then retrieve it, you have by definition "continued in the race before recovering your anchor", no?

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41 minutes ago, coyotepup said:

If you chuck the anchor way ahead of the boat, and sail up to it, then retrieve it, you have by definition "continued in the race before recovering your anchor", no?

I don't think so. Case 5 specifically states pulling the line forcefully to propel the boat to a new location. It doesn't specifically say anything about sailing up to and off the anchor. I'd argue that part of the seamanlike use of an anchor *may* involve sailing past the anchoring spot to break an anchor free. Would you disqualify a boat for dislodging their anchor this way, under sail? in places like Fisher's Island sound where the bottom is rocky and unpredictable, it may be the only way to get off the bottom. As long as an engine isn't involved, and as long as you didn't use the anchor rode to propel yourself past the anchoring point, I'd wager you hadn't broken a rule.

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1 hour ago, ryley said:

I don't think so. Case 5 specifically states pulling the line forcefully to propel the boat to a new location. It doesn't specifically say anything about sailing up to and off the anchor. I'd argue that part of the seamanlike use of an anchor *may* involve sailing past the anchoring spot to break an anchor free. Would you disqualify a boat for dislodging their anchor this way, under sail? in places like Fisher's Island sound where the bottom is rocky and unpredictable, it may be the only way to get off the bottom. As long as an engine isn't involved, and as long as you didn't use the anchor rode to propel yourself past the anchoring point, I'd wager you hadn't broken a rule.

If the purpose is to sail to a point that is required to pick up the anchor, sure.  You're talking about maneuvering around for the sole purpose of recovering the anchor.  But repeatedly sailing in the direction of the mark while at the same time picking up the anchor can easily be construed as continuing to race before recovering the anchor.  I would construe it that way.

There's this too:

Quote

However, if the additional line is pulled in so forcefully or rapidly that after the anchor is lifted off the bottom the boat clearly has been propelled to a different position from where the anchor was lowered, she has continued in the race before recovering her anchor, and her action breaks both rule 42.1 and rule 45.

Admittedly, it's not specifically the act of pulling the anchor line that moves the boat.  But if you throw the anchor way forward of the boat, and you move to a point above the anchor to pull it up again, you clearly are in a different position from where the anchor was lowered.  Since the anchor was thrown forward, you could say that any force on the line at all, propels the boat to a different position from where the anchor was lowered.

At a minimum, it seems like a loophole in violation of the spirit of the rule.  OK, so instead of using extra force on the anchor to pull it up, you (the general "you") are using extra force to put it down.  Force that doesn't have much to do with, as 42.1 says, using only the wind and the water to move the boat.

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coyotepup, I guess the question then is: if you saw someone sailing up to their anchor (as opposed to using their rode to get over their anchor), and sailing off of their anchor, would you protest them for that? I wouldn't. 

Also, how far can you  throw an anchor? I'll bet I could get maybe 8' without dinging the boat.

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14 minutes ago, ryley said:

coyotepup, I guess the question then is: if you saw someone sailing up to their anchor (as opposed to using their rode to get over their anchor), and sailing off of their anchor, would you protest them for that? I wouldn't. 

Also, how far can you  throw an anchor? I'll bet I could get maybe 8' without dinging the boat.

Depends on whether I saw them do it once, or ten times all in the direction of the mark while continually moving away from the fleet.  If X number of boats are dropping their anchor straight down and one boat is heaving it forward, and that boat is continually moving ahead of the fleet after every lull and puff, I think reasonable minds would conclude it's the anchor, and not the action of the wind, that is moving the boat forward.  Certainly the people heaving the anchor believe so.

As far as how far can it be thrown, well, with regular anchors, not too far; with the "optimized" anchor in question, no idea.  Far enough to gain an advantage in the race is how it sounds in the given scenario.

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Ok, I see your point. But for instance SS's story doesn't say anything about throwing an anchor. I would find anyone throwing an anchor ahead of the boat (unless to keep out of danger) to have broken the RRS's by ensuring an advantage - the anchor landed well away from the boat's last racing position.

but that's not the same as *dropping* an anchor and then using the rode to get back to that last position. If I saw a boat doing that and was close enough to observe them doing that multiple times, and didn't see them simply pulling the anchor up, gliding, dropping, and repeating, then I don't think there's a rule being broken.

When we anchored this year in the edgartown RTI, the anchor was dropped straight down. We tried sailing off it once, didn't make any progress, dropped it again. when we *did* sail off it, it was under spinnaker and it took two of us to haul it up in that much current. 

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This is interesting.  The way I read it the guy throwing the anchor is not using it to propel the boat forward.  When a zephyr later appears, the boat sails up to the anchor (while gathering in the limp anchor line) and when the bow is over the anchor it is pulled up.  Repeat as necessary.  The nut is; if the anchor is thrown forward, (vs another competitor who just lowers his heavy ass anchor straight down), the thrower's boat will not drift back as far as the heavy ass anchor boat.  In my view, and strictly speaking, this is not propelling the thrower's boat forward, it is merely not allowing it to drift back as far as the heavy ass anchor boat.  Is it fair?  Is it ethical?  IDK, but it doesn't appear to break the rule as stated in an above post.  Time to recruit modern day Al Oerters for anchor chucker.

OK here's an interesting mind game.  What if some MIT guy designs an anchor that only glides or kites in a controlled and predictable straight line.  (Or, since we're in the "modern" era, an RC gliding anchor with mini camera and compass).  So he lowers it down to the water in a normal way and waits a few moments for it to orient itself so that it will glide only forward (toward the next mark).   Then he lets it loose and it glides forward.  Like crazy forward.  You can only imagine how far, thinking of hang gliders or even a plate glass window falling from a burning high-rise building.  Is it breaking a rule if he later retrieves the anchor as I described in the previous paragraph?  If it does, why?  Seems like this is getting into the unethical/fairplay arena if nothing else.

Saying all this, I stopped racing 30 years ago and its apparent that the rules have expanded and changed greatly so I'm probably missing something.

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3B is a race here in winter when wind can be light and current swift, often need to anchor to not give up ground till wind picks up or tide changes. Its been said that you will pass more boats while anchored. 

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3 hours ago, ryley said:

coyotepup, I guess the question then is: if you saw someone sailing up to their anchor (as opposed to using their rode to get over their anchor), and sailing off of their anchor, would you protest them for that? I wouldn't. 

Also, how far can you  throw an anchor? I'll bet I could get maybe 8' without dinging the boat.

You are not a bow guy. Those light anchors can be thrown really far. I guess 8 meters looks like 8 feet from the back of the bus. 
 

We interpret the rules as not using the anchor to change location. The current and wind can move you around(or pass) the anchor. So as long as you aren’t kedging (vocab word of the week) it’s all legal. 

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5 hours ago, ryley said:

I don't think so. Case 5 specifically states pulling the line forcefully to propel the boat to a new location. It doesn't specifically say anything about sailing up to and off the anchor. I'd argue that part of the seamanlike use of an anchor *may* involve sailing past the anchoring spot to break an anchor free. Would you disqualify a boat for dislodging their anchor this way, under sail? in places like Fisher's Island sound where the bottom is rocky and unpredictable, it may be the only way to get off the bottom. As long as an engine isn't involved, and as long as you didn't use the anchor rode to propel yourself past the anchoring point, I'd wager you hadn't broken a rule.

It must be a local’s move. We used the anchor in two Offsoundings at race rock off the coast of Fisher’s Island. One was epic. We put 8 hours into the entire fleet on the way to Greenport. 

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Anchoring is a critical skill to learn if you race in South Puget Sound and often involves subterfuge.  If in superlight air (typically nighttime) you judge a slight  foul current is stronger than your boatspeed don't telegraph to other boats, have a leeward railmeat slide a light anchor over the side without splashing it & once it hooks (lies on the bottom?), steer to keep you sails full even though you're not moving.  The key observation to make is if your competition  appears to be falling behind because they're not anchored, even though everybody's sails are drawing.  You can repeat this for hours in light air;  if you're making progress keep sailing,  if you see yourself not making OTG progress deploy the anchor until you sail over it.  This doesn't work in deep water  so instead sail to the shallow mudflats on the favored side of the course, about 3 feet deeper than your keel is optimal.  If the water is deep right up to shore sail next  to vegetation and hang on to it 'till the wind returns or the current becomes favorable.

Unfortunately the local savvy sailors know these tricks so everyone is vigilant, reverse trickery included.  For example if the fleet is tightly packed & your'e leading by a lot but competitors are inching up in your windspeed lulls,  head fake them by sloppily deploying your anchor so they see it but then sleight of hand bring back aboard.  I've seen a half dozen boats behind us deploy their anchors within a minute (sounds like a pool party),  then wonder why they're losing boatlengths.

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3 hours ago, CaptainAhab said:

You are not a bow guy.

I *was* a bow guy, probably raced right next to you in a few of those Off Soundings races. I was on a Dolphin, then two different Wanderers, and they carried proper anchors, not throwables. I sailed on a J109 too and if it had an anchor I never saw it.

I remember one round Fisher's race on the Dolphin where we made it through Lord's passage and were beating in light air and the ebb and finally just were losing ground right around the rocks of Hungry Point. skipper called for the anchor which I dutifully dropped then dropped the jib. we were probably anchored about a half hour when we saw the boats behind us popping their kites, so I rigged the chute probably faster than I ever had, we set it, and I hauled the anchor up as we sailed off of it. We still won by a country mile.

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