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Amateur couple rebuilds salvage cruiser


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Like watch it before commenting? Have you no respect for internet traditions?  

Sure I would. It's the Chevy of the seas, not a Pininfarina. If you drive it like a rental (Which it was) you'll get wear and tear like a rental. Hitting rocks with boats is bad, as I understand it th

To be fair, most keels are bolted on, the question is, what are they actually bolted TO...

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10 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

I was told that the name for 3M 5200 came from the early peel tests in which it was measured at 5200 PSI.

WD-40 was the 40th water displacement test. My friend’s grandfather worked on the program and came up with the idea of the red straw to access hard to reach areas.

 

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2 hours ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

Based on this imagery and the comments above I think it would be foolish not to sand off bottom paint under the aft keel section and see if the hull has spider cracks.
Keel off now, wouldn't take much effort for an inspection sanding!

Maybe they should have done it before starting the repair. 

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1 hour ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

Seems like a logical first step after dropping the keel. The damage occurred from the outside of the hull so seems like the best place to start to assess the impact on the inside. 

I thnk the boat was already repaired once... No? I might be wrong

Maybe that was already done.

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1 hour ago, chuso007 said:

I thnk the boat was already repaired once... No? I might be wrong

Maybe that was already done.

The listing doesn't imply it was repaired before but everything says it was. The bondo  under the grid looked to be 3/4" thick and not attached to the hull very well. The floor boards were jacked up. The outer laminate of the grid being peeled off with little effort. It's a POS only a dreamer would invest in. 

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16 hours ago, Steve Clark said:

I don’t know what they paid.  I would have paid scrap value for the equipment and deducted the disposal cost of the hull, but that is just me.  I think they bought too large a boat with too many luxury systems and long term they are going to hate it.  Air conditioning, TV, pressurized hot water are all things to break and the cost of everything else goes up at the cube of the length.  If your goal is a sustainable adventure lifestyle, read Lin and Larry Pardey.  Go small go simple.  

That doesnt sell eyeballs on Youtube.

Sexy newer model boat will get more hits than a 4ktsb.

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1 hour ago, chuso007 said:

Very interesting episode about them walking the dogs in the park...

Call me when she finally wears a bikini.

Hey, it was clear from the start that this was a 'lifestyle' (god I hate that word) centered youtube channel, not one focused on boatbuilding.

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4 hours ago, chuso007 said:

Very interesting episode about them walking the dogs in the park...

Call me when she finally wears a bikini.

Oh no, you missed the AMAZING montage where she does the laundry.  In their apartment.  Then folds it.

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24 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Oh no, you missed the AMAZING montage where she does the laundry.  In their apartment.  Then folds it.

Thank God.

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They lost me many videos ago when the yard lifted the boat off the keel, and she was literally crying because one of the yard guys told her to shut up "because I'm a woman" and then she noted that they shut her husband down also, in the same sentence. That whole video was whining about one thing or another. Whining about Beneteau, whining about the yard, whatever. I felt like bringing them some cheese. 

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5 hours ago, George Dewey said:

They lost me many videos ago when the yard lifted the boat off the keel, and she was literally crying because one of the yard guys told her to shut up "because I'm a woman" and then she noted that they shut her husband down also, in the same sentence. That whole video was whining about one thing or another. Whining about Beneteau, whining about the yard, whatever. I felt like bringing them some cheese. 

They probably told them to shut up because they were getting in the way of operations and distracting the crew.

We've had to eject people off of a working trawl deck because they didn't believe that 'nobody but those involved in operations' meant *them* and didn't we realise that they absolutely *had* to take pix for their Facebook page... right next to wires under massive load. I hated having to do OH&S reports.

FKT

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25 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

They probably told them to shut up because they were getting in the way of operations and distracting the crew.

We've had to eject people off of a working trawl deck because they didn't believe that 'nobody but those involved in operations' meant *them* and didn't we realise that they absolutely *had* to take pix for their Facebook page... right next to wires under massive load. I hated having to do OH&S reports.

FKT

Are you old enough to remember the labor rate sign at the old gas station? $10 an hour labor, $15 if you watch and $20 if you help. Add another zero and post it on the yard.

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30 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

They probably told them to shut up because they were getting in the way of operations and distracting the crew.

We've had to eject people off of a working trawl deck because they didn't believe that 'nobody but those involved in operations' meant *them* and didn't we realise that they absolutely *had* to take pix for their Facebook page... right next to wires under massive load. I hated having to do OH&S reports.

FKT

Oh I have no doubt. I expect these kids absolutely knew how to run the Travelift better than the yard guys (or so they thought), and made that very clear. 

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On 12/8/2020 at 9:36 AM, Sail4beer said:

WD-40 was the 40th water displacement test. My friend’s grandfather worked on the program and came up with the idea of the red straw to access hard to reach areas.

 

I thought it was "water dry"?  Not so?

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Not much street cred for being a pilot or a neurosurgeon for that matter. Most of them cannot change a flat tire on their car. Not saying they are stupid dumb. They just only know what they are trained to do and not much else. You could train a monkey to fly a plane if you could overcome the language barrier. 

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9 minutes ago, GH41 said:

 You could train a monkey to fly a plane if you could overcome the language barrier. 

We have evidence of that right here on this site.

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29 minutes ago, GH41 said:

Not much street cred for being a pilot or a neurosurgeon for that matter. Most of them cannot change a flat tire on their car. Not saying they are stupid dumb. They just only know what they are trained to do and not much else. You could train a monkey to fly a plane if you could overcome the language barrier. 

That has to be the ignorant comment of the day.   Are you a pilot?  Do you actually know any pilots?  Are they as you describe?

I am a pilot, and I know lots of pilots.  None are as you describe.

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2 hours ago, Rain Man said:

That has to be the ignorant comment of the day.   Are you a pilot?  Do you actually know any pilots?  Are they as you describe?

I am a pilot, and I know lots of pilots.  None are as you describe.

I knew a pilot, very bright guy. He was a professor of something arcane at the university.

He tried to learn spinnaker flying by looking at pictures. He hadn't figured out that the pole should be on the upwind side of the forestay, so he spent several days heeled over to the max wondering what was wrong.

He also raised his jib by starting hanking on at the top, so he would clip on the top hank, go back to the mast, raise the jib two feet, go back to the bow, hook on another hank, go back to the mast and raise the jib two feet, go back to the bow and hook on another hank, go back to the mast...

These people do exist. I don't know how, but they do.

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2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

I knew a pilot, very bright guy. He was a professor of something arcane at the university.

He tried to learn spinnaker flying by looking at pictures. He hadn't figured out that the pole should be on the upwind side of the forestay, so he spent several days heeled over to the max wondering what was wrong.

He also raised his jib by starting hanking on at the top, so he would clip on the top hank, go back to the mast, raise the jib two feet, go back to the bow, hook on another hank, go back to the mast and raise the jib two feet, go back to the bow and hook on another hank, go back to the mast...

These people do exist. I don't know how, but they do.

Doesn't sound like a pilot to me.  Sounds like a brilliant but no common sense professor who happened to have a pilot's license.  ;-)

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4 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Doesn't sound like a pilot to me.  Sounds like a brilliant but no common sense professor who happened to have a pilot's license.  ;-)

I see no evidence for the "brilliant" part.

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5 hours ago, IStream said:

I see no evidence for the "brilliant" part.

I took @Ishmael at his word.  "... very bright guy."  The rest is semantics.  Google "multiple intelligences".

There are a fair number of pilots out there who get their license, then realize that the only way to be safe is to practice their skills constantly, but for whatever reason they can't or won't do that.  Nevertheless they worked hard and paid $$$ to get their license, so they do the minimum to keep it, or they just let it lapse.  These are not "pilots", in spite of holding, or once upon a time holding, a license.  

I see these people often when I fly passengers in the glider - they once had a pilot's license and still have the dreams of flying, but they can't make the commitment for one reason or another.  They are hopeful that flying gliders might be an avenue for realizing that dream.  Unfortunately, once they experience soaring, they realize it requires more or less the same commitment as flying power aircraft.

 

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12 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

I took @Ishmael at his word.  "... very bright guy."  The rest is semantics.  Google "multiple intelligences".

There are a fair number of pilots out there who get their license, then realize that the only way to be safe is to practice their skills constantly, but for whatever reason they can't or won't do that.  Nevertheless they worked hard and paid $$$ to get their license, so they do the minimum to keep it, or they just let it lapse.  These are not "pilots", in spite of holding, or once upon a time holding, a license.  

I see these people often when I fly passengers in the glider - they once had a pilot's license and still have the dreams of flying, but they can't make the commitment for one reason or another.  They are hopeful that flying gliders might be an avenue for realizing that dream.  Unfortunately, once they experience soaring, they realize it requires more or less the same commitment as flying power aircraft.

 

I was being facetious. From what Ish described of the guy, he didn't seem brilliant.

Sorry, I have an aversion to the purple font. I was here for Usenet and ascii smileys. I've reluctantly accepted emojis. Purple font is a bridge too far. ;o)

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29 minutes ago, IStream said:

I was being facetious. From what Ish described of the guy, he didn't seem brilliant.

Sorry, I have an aversion to the purple font. I was here for Usenet and ascii smileys. I've reluctantly accepted emojis. Purple font is a bridge too far. ;o)

I see what you did there.   :lol:

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1 hour ago, Rain Man said:

I took @Ishmael at his word.  "... very bright guy."  The rest is semantics.  Google "multiple intelligences".

There are a fair number of pilots out there who get their license, then realize that the only way to be safe is to practice their skills constantly, but for whatever reason they can't or won't do that.  Nevertheless they worked hard and paid $$$ to get their license, so they do the minimum to keep it, or they just let it lapse.  These are not "pilots", in spite of holding, or once upon a time holding, a license. 

 

He flew his plane down to the marina every weekend, he was current. There was just one wire missing in the sailing computer.

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The only pilot I know is now retired from flying commercial jets, yet when teaching (or trying to teach) her to fly a kite for kitesurfing, she simply cannot grasp the concept of stall. Bizarre.

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I know a commercial pilot who flies to Baltic countries and adopts dogs from there instead of her local dog shelter. Weird.

She also got the 39’ sailboat in the divorce a few years back and decided to restore it with her new boyfriend instead of just sailing it. Finally got it painted last spring and never came back to peel the tape or re-install the windows and hatches...pilots are a wide ranging group of people for sure.

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23 hours ago, Rain Man said:

That has to be the ignorant comment of the day.   Are you a pilot?  Do you actually know any pilots?  Are they as you describe?

I am a pilot, and I know lots of pilots.  None are as you describe.

What does being a "Pilot" make you? A fucking idiot that learned how to fly? Learning how to fly a plane has nothing to do with your ability to tie your shoes! 

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1 hour ago, Zonker said:

I know 3 commercial pilots/sailboat owners.

All were/are slightly odd. But who isn't?

Come to think of it, I do know one slightly odd commercial pilot.  Excellent pilot, metal and wood basher,  though.  Given the number of boats, aircraft and houses he has built himself, I think he probably has no trouble tying his shoes.  But yes, slightly odd.

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Back to the topic at hand - did she really paint Interprotect on the top of the keel?  I wonder if they plan to remove that before reattaching.  If not, the bond between the keel and the bottom of the boat will be questionable.  

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2 hours ago, Zonker said:

It's a good idea - it's a cast iron keel. Got to stop it rusting. The 5200 or whatever they use to bed it is not the structural element that hold it on - it's the bolts!

Of course, but I thought they painted it with neat epoxy first.  If so, I would have left it like that.  I think you want the keel glued to the bottom of the hull as much as possible, in addition to the bolts keeping it on.  Hence the 5200 vs. 4200.

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Ah, didn't watch. But probably the bond of neat epoxy to cast iron isn't much different than an epoxy paint to cast iron. It's a big area and I doubt it matters (due to big bond area/low stress in the sealant)

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9 hours ago, Zonker said:

Ah, didn't watch. But probably the bond of neat epoxy to cast iron isn't much different than an epoxy paint to cast iron. It's a big area and I doubt it matters (due to big bond area/low stress in the sealant)

Yes, the load path is always through the stiffest member(s) - so in this case the keel bolts. 

The only time an epoxy product would be a consideration would be if the elongation to fracture was approaching 0% (i.e. brittle) in which case it would fail as a sealant - but you can't consider an epoxy join as a structural element in this case.  But then an epoxy product that brittle wouldn't really be an epoxy product.

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That boat was very cheaply built for the quick buck in the tourist market, for it to be in such horrible condition after just a decade and a half...

That couple may sound upbeat cheery and full of dreams, but I hope for them they really understand what is needed to get this boat to seaworthy condition. I estimate she needs the same amount of work that Tally Ho did a few years ago...

Unfortunately I don't expect the yard they are in now to be able to do that work to any other level than the original build, and these two, frankly, are clueless where boatwork is concerned.

Best case scenario? They have deep enough pockets to keep the yard busy for a couple of years, and then end up with a boat that can cruise Brazil's coastal waters for 10 years or so before falling apart again.

More realistically, it will end in a bonfire when they realize it's a money pit with no return conceivable

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1 hour ago, alphafb552 said:

That boat was very cheaply built for the quick buck in the tourist market, for it to be in such horrible condition after just a decade and a half...

That couple may sound upbeat cheery and full of dreams, but I hope for them they really understand what is needed to get this boat to seaworthy condition. I estimate she needs the same amount of work that Tally Ho did a few years ago...

Unfortunately I don't expect the yard they are in now to be able to do that work to any other level than the original build, and these two, frankly, are clueless where boatwork is concerned.

Best case scenario? They have deep enough pockets to keep the yard busy for a couple of years, and then end up with a boat that can cruise Brazil's coastal waters for 10 years or so before falling apart again.

More realistically, it will end in a bonfire when they realize it's a money pit with no return conceivable

I suspect they'll just pass it along at a "too good to be true" price to one of their loyal subscribers. Plenty of greater fools out there...

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I hope they don't sail further than the coast. At least they got dive equipment and dinghy so they can save themselves meanwhile they can and learn the fucking lesson. 

Another problem is the level of the Brasilian boatyards that keeps fooling new buyers. 

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15 hours ago, alphafb552 said:

That boat was very cheaply built for the quick buck in the tourist market, for it to be in such horrible condition after just a decade and a half...

That couple may sound upbeat cheery and full of dreams, but I hope for them they really understand what is needed to get this boat to seaworthy condition. I estimate she needs the same amount of work that Tally Ho did a few years ago...

Unfortunately I don't expect the yard they are in now to be able to do that work to any other level than the original build, and these two, frankly, are clueless where boatwork is concerned.

Best case scenario? They have deep enough pockets to keep the yard busy for a couple of years, and then end up with a boat that can cruise Brazil's coastal waters for 10 years or so before falling apart again.

More realistically, it will end in a bonfire when they realize it's a money pit with no return conceivable

Sooooo...

Should we set-up a bet page?

I got 6 months before the "We fucked up" video comes and they abandon the boat and return home to their parents?

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9 hours ago, darth reapius said:

Sooooo...

Should we set-up a bet page?

I got 6 months before the "We fucked up" video comes and they abandon the boat and return home to their parents?

It is funny everyone on SA is waiting for catastrophic failure. The funny part is I think most of them want to fail, as it gets them clicks, views, and $$.

We just heard of another YouTube’r that decided to use galvanized wire for his standing rigging. 

The fake sailors have everyone hooked, even the “real” sailors on SA have fallen for it. 

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3 hours ago, GH41 said:

I thought you only used galvanized rigging on ferrocement boats.

The very experienced co-worker who gave me my first lessons in boatbuilding and sailing built a glass Fortune 30 on the cheap. He used galvanized rigging. Apparently it is stronger than S/S and certainly more reliable - no crevice corrosion.

He made up the shrouds with doubled compression sleeves and then boiled them in linseed oil. IIRC he also treated them with some sort of whitewash process to make them prettier. After that he parceled and served the sleeves to preclude chafe.

Last I heard of him he was in Pago Pago so I guess his process worked.

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1 hour ago, Zonker said:

Nothing wrong with galvanized. Just not all shiny and yachty. 

This. I've got galvanised wire rigging on my boat. Except for stretch and the 'bling' thing more important to some people than actual function, it's superior to stainless. The failure mode is a hell of a lot more predictable.

I also got to rig my own boat so I know how it's done.

One day it'll be replaced but it won't be with stainless, I'll almost certainly go to one of the synthetics.

FKT

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5 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

This. I've got galvanised wire rigging on my boat. Except for stretch and the 'bling' thing more important to some people than actual function, it's superior to stainless. The failure mode is a hell of a lot more predictable.

I also got to rig my own boat so I know how it's done.

One day it'll be replaced but it won't be with stainless, I'll almost certainly go to one of the synthetics.

FKT

What synthetic? Polypropylene? You may as well continue looking backwards. 

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4 hours ago, GH41 said:

What synthetic? Polypropylene? You may as well continue looking backwards. 

Whatever. You stick with your shiny stainless bling, I'll use whatever works for me.

That's assuming you have any sort of boat. Aren't you the sock-puppet that keeps getting downvoted because you're a trolling stalker?

FKT

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8 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Whatever. You stick with your shiny stainless bling, I'll use whatever works for me.

That's assuming you have any sort of boat. Aren't you the sock-puppet that keeps getting downvoted because you're a trolling stalker?

FKT

I once heard a story of a catamaran in the ‘70s that used some anchor chain as standing rigging and went racing. When you are in a pinch in the islands, whatever works I guess. Stainless, galvanized, dyneema, carbon, pbo, chain, hemp.....it’s all good if it gets you out there and it doesn’t fall on your head before you get back. 

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1 hour ago, MauiPunter said:

Pretty sure he meant Dyneema.

Yep or whatever superior material replaces that. Which is why I didn't specify an exact material as things change, particularly WRT synthetics.

I find the whole slagging off of galvanised wire hilarious. We used to use 6mm diameter armoured data cable to deploy sampling gear up to 5000m deep. It was all galvanised wire with electrical cores. If stainless was superior we would have used it for sure, budget for cable was trivial.

Our deep ocean moorings have gone from galvanised to Dyneema these days - stronger, lighter. I can see the day coming for its wide adoption for yacht rigging, it's just a matter of people getting more experience with it. A person I know has just re-rigged their cruising boat with Dyneema.

FKT

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We used Galvanized wire for the rigging of the NY40 Marilee IIRC. The ends wrapped and tied were payed with pitch tar. Seemed ok for $250,000 spar and rigging contract 20 years ago.

Dyneema is great. It splices like a dream and is easily worked into rigging 

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

We used Galvanized wire for the rigging of the NY40 Marilee IIRC. The ends wrapped and tied were payed with pitch tar. Seemed ok for $250,000 spar and rigging contract 20 years ago.

Dyneema is great. It splices like a dream and is easily worked into rigging 

Yeah - a locked brummel splice isn't hard to learn. One of the things I like about dyneema is I can do my own rigging, just as I can with galvanised wire.

FKT

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4 hours ago, GH41 said:

What does your galvanized anchor chain look like after a couple of years? Probably like your galvanized rigging does. 

Keep posting - each one you make demonstrates yet again how little you know.

FKT

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I'm always straggered by how dogmatic this group of so called Anarchists is. Step outside the mainstream by just a little and you'll be pilloried. Good luck to these guys and the couple in Brazil on their big wooden boat. I bet they'e having more fun than most of the boring twats on here sitting in their offices avoiding boring jobs. 

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6 minutes ago, Gone Ballistic said:

I'm always straggered (sic) by how dogmatic this group of so called Anarchists is. Step outside the mainstream by just a little and you'll be pilloried. Good luck to these guys and the couple in Brazil on their big wooden boat. I bet they'e having more fun than most of the boring twats on here sitting in their offices avoiding boring jobs. 

That's the nicest thing anyone has said about this group of so-called Anarchists for some time.   Things are really looking up around here!

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11 hours ago, Gone Ballistic said:

I'm always straggered by how dogmatic this group of so called Anarchists is. Step outside the mainstream by just a little and you'll be pilloried. Good luck to these guys and the couple in Brazil on their big wooden boat. I bet they'e having more fun than most of the boring twats on here sitting in their offices avoiding boring jobs. 

I've never heard thousands of years of experience called dogmatism before.

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