Christmas Regatta

[Rennmaus 2,382]

26 minutes ago, jaysper said:

It WAS shit to watch, but sometimes the wind just dies and your boat is left there bobbing up and down in one spot.

No need to change the rules. For the first 3 legs before the wind completely died, ETNZ seemed to be foiling A-OK.

And yes, we did get our arses kicked in San Fran due to an abandoned race *sigh*.

I agree, it was shit to watch, super boring. But all these complaints, as if it's the organizer's fault, look as if it is the first regatta the complainers are watching. That's why I think, it's complaining for the sake of complaining, and trying to somehow make ETNZ responsible for the lack of wind. Which is more ridiculous than that "race".

[nav 577]

So many people dropping by to say how shit it all is.....painful

And before anyone gets too carried away with the 'wind limit moaning' let's hear what the actual measured, averaged, 30Hz etc etc official wind was out there on the course for leg 4. If it was below the starting limit it would make most of the grizzling moot, at most you could say IM failed to shorten the course adequately (again)  Or maybe that the crew didn't take every opportunity to finish as BT suggested? First by not doing the Gack (was that what NO called it?) and then having fallen, more quickly accepting displacement mode for the last leg.

But that wouldn't have helped any with the next 3 races of course

 

Edit: Here's a quote

Murray said there was no issue about starting Sunday’s race, nor did he have problems with the 6.5 knot limit. 

“I think the issue is when the wind goes under the limit during the race,” Murray said.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/123770971/americas-cup-more-racing-under-consideration-after-christmas-cup-abandoned

[terrafirma 1,079]

Clearly the boats need a little more wind to make it a race and a spectacle. You don't need to be Einstein to see that. Otherwise this thing will be a disaster.! 

[Adair 12]

It's called sailing. You know, making a boat move through wind power acting on sails!

Sometimes there's too much wind.

Sometimes there is too little wind.

Sometimes it's just right.

Sometimes there's too much and not enough and about right all in the same race.

But, whiners gotta whine.

[Rennmaus 2,382]

47 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Clearly the boats need a little more wind to make it a race and a spectacle. You don't need to be Einstein to see that. Otherwise this thing will be a disaster.! 

A disaster is C19 or a plane crash or an earthquake. This here is just a sailboat race.

[Erwankerauzen 68]

Overall , these Xmas regattas let me a tasrte of "Déjà Vu":

Not because the Kiwis won , but because how they won:

Rock stable boat

Light speed maneouvers, 

A few mistakes in order to remind us they are not gods (or not yet),

A competitive package with the smallest foils, probably the same trade-off than last time 

I would add, from behind ETNZ looks like a racing car for 24h du Mans, with each side cockpicts streamlining the crew instead of the wheels

The hull/ deck section under the main sail reminds me a workpaper about Non-Planar wake/Winglets/Box Wing by  Kroo and Smith & al

Sailing is always better with a minimum wind, when there is not enought to fly a hull, I prefer to stay in the club house with a fresh pint of Guiness, I can do it because I am not a professionnal.

Strange to see people complaining, including for the boat concept, which imho seems to deliver with boat speed@ 3 x TWS windward & almost 4 x TWS downwind.

Cheers

[SCARECROW 586]

Interesting that neither team pulled out a code zero.  Has anyone even deployed one on their second boat, or did everyone experiment with them in boat one, decide they weren’t worth the hassle and put a cosmetic pod only on the new boats?

[Tornado-Cat 934]

2 hours ago, nav said:

So many people dropping by to say how shit it all is.....painful

And before anyone gets too carried away with the 'wind limit moaning' let's hear what the actual measured, averaged, 30Hz etc etc official wind was out there on the course for leg 4. If it was below the starting limit it would make most of the grizzling moot, at most you could say IM failed to shorten the course adequately (again)  Or maybe that the crew didn't take every opportunity to finish as BT suggested? First by not doing the Gack (was that what NO called it?) and then having fallen, more quickly accepting displacement mode for the last leg.

But that wouldn't have helped any with the next 3 races of course

 

Edit: Here's a quote

Murray said there was no issue about starting Sunday’s race, nor did he have problems with the 6.5 knot limit. 

“I think the issue is when the wind goes under the limit during the race,” Murray said.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/123770971/americas-cup-more-racing-under-consideration-after-christmas-cup-abandoned

Good news if they postpone the race to sunday, public and sponsors have been waiting for long now, we want the show.

I don't agree with IM, there is no issue if the wind goes down during the race, it's part of the game during sailing and we want to see who made the best sail/material choices. However the rule preventing to change the foil is nonsense during the race is nonsense and should be changed.

This is like preventing the teams to choose the right sail before sailing. We already know these boats and heavy and don't cope well with light aire vs a cat, so why impose a new handicap ? Nonsense that has to be changed.

[The_Alchemist 1,261]

12 hours ago, nroose said:

Part of sailing.

Pissing off the boat in front of a camera?

[Tornado-Cat 934]

10 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Cheers buddy, fun to have your opinions back into the mix, hope you’re back to health. You’ve been a long-time member. 

Thanks SR, sorry, I was not specific enough in my post. Health has always been good, we were caught with the pandemic in March while in Granada island, managed to come back to northern america, decided not to go to europe to avoid quanrantines and decided to travail to the end of a north east road here, at the end of civilisation while having a swim at each stop, grrrrr, grrrrrr !

As for Covid I may have got it Feb 2020, I don't know.

Yep, I have been on this forum since 2009 I think.

[Tornado-Cat 934]

4 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Pissing off the boat in front of a camera?

Pissing on a boat is part of sailing, just have not to forget the cam ! Who did it ?

[Enzedel92 108]

What’s the weather forecast for today’s racing?

[nav 577]

There's the North West needs exploring too, great swimming......please

[Miffy 2,140]

7 minutes ago, Enzedel92 said:

What’s the weather forecast for today’s racing?

There’s no more for 3 weeks. 

[Tornado-Cat 934]

11 minutes ago, nav said:

There's the North West needs exploring too, great swimming......please

Next summer if still stuck on the same continent.

[Xlot 856]

6 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

 

It was the same as in many races, e.g. the very first ACWS race in Cascais. 

Sigh. Except WE were there - and the food was better 

[DA-WOODY 1,023]

my Fav was the guy after NoRace 1 taking a Piss in front of camera for 10+ seconds

troubling ...

[Enzedel92 108]

42 minutes ago, Miffy said:

There’s no more for 3 weeks. 

FUCK ME.

REALLY???  NO MAKE UP DAYS??  HOW DOES A REGATTA GET SCHEDULED WITH ZERO MAKE UP DAYS?

IF THATS THE CASE THE RACES SHOULD HAVE STARTED IN THE MORNING.

 

TALK ABOUT ANTICLIMATIC. WHAT A GREAT FINAL IMAGE OF THE CHRISTMAS REGGATA.  BOATS SITING IDLE IN THE WATER - FECKLESS.

IM is like fuck it - we out!!! Peace

 

[Salty Seacock 419]

7 hours ago, astro said:

Every answer from everyone is bullshit at these pressers.

Why pick on Max?

Because he's the opposition. 

[Salty Seacock 419]

4 hours ago, nav said:

So many people dropping by to say how shit it all is.....painful

And before anyone gets too carried away with the 'wind limit moaning' let's hear what the actual measured, averaged, 30Hz etc etc official wind was out there on the course for leg 4. If it was below the starting limit it would make most of the grizzling moot, at most you could say IM failed to shorten the course adequately (again)  Or maybe that the crew didn't take every opportunity to finish as BT suggested? First by not doing the Gack (was that what NO called it?) and then having fallen, more quickly accepting displacement mode for the last leg.

But that wouldn't have helped any with the next 3 races of course

 

Edit: Here's a quote

Murray said there was no issue about starting Sunday’s race, nor did he have problems with the 6.5 knot limit. 

“I think the issue is when the wind goes under the limit during the race,” Murray said.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/123770971/americas-cup-more-racing-under-consideration-after-christmas-cup-abandoned

Normally in December, the Waitemata and Hauraki Gulf offer sailors excellent winds from the SW and NE. In the last few years, there's been winds that would've been at the upper limit for the AC during most of December. Yesterday, we witnessed what we call, "powerboat nirvana".

That's sailing. 

Not having planned in extra days is indeed a bit of a bummer but, there must be good reasons as to why. 

Ineos are the team to beat. Their sandbagging was exceptional.

[Sailbydate 2,609]

10 things, I have learned:

1) These machines look pretty bloody exciting in a decent breeze 

2) AC75's are capable of 'proper' match racing

3) The current lower wind limit is too low (unless sailing at 90 degrees floats (flys) your boat)

4) The sparkling Waitemata is not always an ideal sailing venue (but I already knew that)

5) Big jibs, tacked to bowsprits, might be useful after all

6) None of the teams have sailed anywhere near enough to understand the AC75's potential 

7) The Kiwis lack imagination in the starting box - but are fast learners

8) Professional fouls pay dividends 

9) Sir Ben and his team have quite a bit of work to do

10) Sitting on my arse watching TV is never as good as messing around in boats

BONUS:

11) The foils need floatation slip cover, so that when both arms are canted, the boats become trimarans and actually work on a downhill run.

[Rennmaus 2,382]

Having no reserve day is really not professional. As well as the TV production (graphics and displayed information). It all has the charme of trial-and-error, of doing things the first time. Rather amateurish, but loveable. Certainly not the standard one would expect for the AC, but what we have just watched is not the AC (yet), so lots of room for improvement.
It reminds me of the very fist ACWS season by Oracle. That was lacking professionalism too.

[rh3000 1,625]

4 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Having no reserve day is really not professional. As well as the TV production (graphics and displayed information). It all has the charme of trial-and-error, of doing things the first time. Rather amateurish, but loveable. Certainly not the standard one would expect for the AC, but what we have just watched is not the AC (yet), so lots of room for improvement.
It reminds me of the very fist ACWS season by Oracle. That was lacking professionalism too.

I agree, it does seem really surprising to not have one up one's sleeve...

[JustinL42 159]

The no wind races honestly make it more relatable. Roasting on deck hoping for a puff from anywhere just to move a little. The banter was funny on the downwind leg. I hope obviously there aren't many like that but the wind is the wind and will do what it wants to. That's just sailing. I can feel the pain and embarrassment from the Brits. I hope they figure it out. That has to be total agony being on that boat right now. Their foils remind me of the Doel fin outboard motor foil.

[DA-WOODY 1,023]

2 hours ago, Salty Seacock said:

Not having planned in extra days is indeed a bit of a bummer but, there must be good reasons as to why. 

Ineos are the team to beat. Their sandbagging was exceptional.

Pay TV

like in us FoolBalls having Nothing to do w Product + Everything to do w Promotion and Marketing

GO Euro YouTube !!!!!

PM if there'z anything to watch

[Tornado-Cat 934]

1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

10 things, I have learned:

1) These machines look pretty bloody exciting in a decent breeze 

2) AC75's are capable of 'proper' match racing

3) The current lower wind limit is too low (unless sailing at 90 degrees floats (flys) your boat)

4) The sparkling Waitemata is not always an ideal sailing venue (but I already knew that)

5) Big jibs, tacked to bowsprits, might be useful after all

6) None of the teams have sailed anywhere near enough to understand the AC75's potential 

7) The Kiwis lack imagination in the starting box - but are fast learners

8) Professional fouls pay dividends 

9) Sir Ben and his team have quite a bit of work to do

10) Sitting on my arse watching TV is never as good as messing around in boats

BONUS:

11) The foils need floatation slip cover, so that when both arms are canted, the boats become trimarans and actually work on a downhill run.

Pretty much agree with everything, as usual (BTW, nice to read you again). Not everything though, times limits are ok for me as far as they let the teams chose their foil according to the conditions before the race. This boat is impressive with wind but very heavy so they should be able to adapt it, I do recognize however that all the teams should accept a modification of the rules and at least one of them will refuse.

[nroose 189]

1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

Having no reserve day is really not professional. As well as the TV production (graphics and displayed information). It all has the charme of trial-and-error, of doing things the first time. Rather amateurish, but loveable. Certainly not the standard one would expect for the AC, but what we have just watched is not the AC (yet), so lots of room for improvement.
It reminds me of the very fist ACWS season by Oracle. That was lacking professionalism too.

When they started talking about using a different course, I was thinking they should have had it set up in case they needed it. I guess this whole event was not really important. Just a practice event. Like an exhibition or preseason game. But the problem is that the rest of the season is so short anyway, these races are actually important, meaningful, and popular with the fans.

[cinnr 19]

FWIW, I'd propose additional rule: After at least 1 boat has completed the first leg, if both boats are off foils for 5 minutes, end the race right there. Whoever is ahead wins (I know that's problematic,  but let the judges decide...if they can't decide, then revert to the relative placement at previous mark. Otherwise (like nobody completes leg 1) abandon.

[Monkey 1,334]

I hate to say it, but New Zealand failed spectacularly on the practice event. Hopefully, things get better. 

[southseasbill 119]

2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

10 things, I have learned:

1) These machines look pretty bloody exciting in a decent breeze 

2) AC75's are capable of 'proper' match racing

3) The current lower wind limit is too low (unless sailing at 90 degrees floats (flys) your boat)

4) The sparkling Waitemata is not always an ideal sailing venue (but I already knew that)

5) Big jibs, tacked to bowsprits, might be useful after all

6) None of the teams have sailed anywhere near enough to understand the AC75's potential 

7) The Kiwis lack imagination in the starting box - but are fast learners

8) Professional fouls pay dividends 

9) Sir Ben and his team have quite a bit of work to do

10) Sitting on my arse watching TV is never as good as messing around in boats

BONUS:

11) The foils need floatation slip cover, so that when both arms are canted, the boats become trimarans and actually work on a downhill run.

The wind limits are fine. The issue is what to do when the wind drops away after the start. That's the case in any kind of yacht racing. No one wants to see a displacement race with these boats.

[nroose 189]

28 minutes ago, cinnr said:

FWIW, I'd propose additional rule: After at least 1 boat has completed the first leg, if both boats are off foils for 5 minutes, end the race right there. Whoever is ahead wins (I know that's problematic,  but let the judges decide...if they can't decide, then revert to the relative placement at previous mark. Otherwise (like nobody completes leg 1) abandon.

Something like that seems like it would be good. Perhaps if they don't make the time limit the boat that rounded the previous mark first (Or goes through the previous gate) wins. Or the boat that is ahead wins. Perhaps after a minimum of half the race is done. Like in Baseball when it starts raining after the 5th inning. Perhaps also if one boat laps the other, that boat wins. Or maybe each gate gives you a point in any race, and a win gives you 2 (or 5 or 10) points. Then the boat with the most points wins.

[Sailbydate 2,609]

1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Pretty much agree with everything, as usual (BTW, nice to read you again). Not everything though, times limits are ok for me as far as they let the teams chose their foil according to the conditions before the race. This boat is impressive with wind but very heavy so they should be able to adapt it, I do recognize however that all the teams should accept a modification of the rules and at least one of them will refuse.

Nice to see you back, TC. Merry Christmas.

[Kate short for Bob 270]

1 hour ago, cinnr said:

FWIW, I'd propose additional rule: After at least 1 boat has completed the first leg, if both boats are off foils for 5 minutes, end the race right there. Whoever is ahead wins (I know that's problematic,  but let the judges decide...if they can't decide, then revert to the relative placement at previous mark. Otherwise (like nobody completes leg 1) abandon.

I thought there was a match racing rule or a previous AC rule where if you lapped your opponent then you won.  Lap = one upwind + one downwind leg.  

[P Flados 198]

Having the wind die off after it was good enough for a start is very real and should be accepted for what it is.

In fact, the time limit should have been long enough to accommodate the situation where boats need to consider giving up "trying to foil" and just go for the win in displacement mode.  As long as one of the two boats can get a VMG of 3 knots over a rolling 5 minute average, the race should not be called.

Yes I know it would be "piss poor to watch" to some degree.  However, I am sure that there has been but more than one AC has been won with a good part of the racing having VMGs in the low single digits.  

[Sailbydate 2,609]

Was interesting to hear Blair Tuke pondering a gybe upwind to get around that top mark, foilborne.

Maybe the boys should have tried it. Nothing to lose, right? Imagine how heroic that would have been?

[Indio 904]

1 hour ago, nroose said:

When they started talking about using a different course, I was thinking they should have had it set up in case they needed it. I guess this whole event was not really important. Just a practice event. Like an exhibition or preseason game. But the problem is that the rest of the season is so short anyway, these races are actually important, meaningful, and popular with the fans.

That I imagine will all be covered in the review taking place now..

[Indio 904]

16 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Was interesting to hear Blair Tuke pondering a gybe upwind to get around that top mark, foilborne...

He also commented that they should have "low-ridden" (displacement mode) sooner instead of wasting 5 minutes trying to get on the foils

[cinnr 19]

1 hour ago, P Flados said:

Yes I know it would be "piss poor to watch"

Watching that just sent me straight back to bad memories of trying desperately to escape a wind hole while others sailed around us. I couldn't look away but I probably have an ulcer now.  ...Also feeling so badly for those guys on frackers.  Not fun to watch.

[Kate short for Bob 270]

1 hour ago, P Flados said:

Having the wind die off after it was good enough for a start is very real and should be accepted for what it is.

In fact, the time limit should have been long enough to accommodate the situation where boats need to consider giving up "trying to foil" and just go for the win in displacement mode.  As long as one of the two boats can get a VMG of 3 knots over a rolling 5 minute average, the race should not be called.

Yes I know it would be "piss poor to watch" to some degree.  However, I am sure that there has been but more than one AC has been won with a good part of the racing having VMGs in the low single digits.  

Yep ETNZ would have been happy with that rule in San Fran.

[P Flados 198]

Making the next gate the finish and letting the teams know that they may have to sail to the next gate in displacement mode adds to the depth of the event.  At times it could be a tactical decision to try to fly vs just point for best VMG and stay low.   If the boats happen to be physically close together at splashdown, some old time match racing skills might even be needed.

The whole "if you can not fly, just call it off" mentality just smells bad to me.  Come on, these guys get paid enough to fight to the end even when zipping around above the water is not in the cards.

[phill_nz 645]

i was wondering why etnz didnt just head straight for the gate in displacement .. perhaps

... they dont know enough about displacement speeds so didnt know if they could make it in time

... they didnt think of it

 

 

[ncs 38]

1 hour ago, Indio said:

He also commented that they should have "low-ridden" (displacement mode) sooner instead of wasting 5 minutes trying to get on the foils

Five extra minutes of 4ksb mode heading towards the finish after dropping and they would have finished in under 45:00. Hindsight is so 2020.  ha ha ha. 

[sailman 151]

18 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

i was wondering why etnz didnt just head straight for the gate in displacement .. perhaps

... they dont know enough about displacement speeds so didnt know if they could make it in time

... they didnt think of it

 

 

I don’t think they can let the main out far enough to do that.

[nroose 189]

Seems like it was more important to try to practice things they think are useful. They could go out in the light any time to get their light air polars. And if they didn't know they could, they probably didn't know they would have had to - they would have had to know that they could do it and that it would have been fast enough to get to the finish in time and that they had to do it to get to the finish on time.

[southseasbill 119]

A pity that today wasn't scheduled as a reserve day. Appears to be a better breeze in Auckland this afternoon.

[Sailbydate 2,609]

1 hour ago, phill_nz said:

i was wondering why etnz didnt just head straight for the gate in displacement .. perhaps

... they dont know enough about displacement speeds so didnt know if they could make it in time

... they didnt think of it

 

 

It's not something they would have practiced. Might be taking a look at it now though.

[Doot Master Flex 13]

Ian Murray looking at having the Xmas regatta rescheduled to the 7th,8th and 11th and 12th of Jan, to get more practice in if everyone agrees. 

[jaysper 692]

6 minutes ago, Doot Master Flex said:

Ian Murray looking at having the Xmas regatta rescheduled to the 7th,8th and 11th and 12th of Jan, to get more practice in if everyone agrees. 

Dunno why any one them would agree to that. Especially the challengers.

[Doot Master Flex 13]

9 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Dunno why any one them would agree to that. Especially the challengers.

Agree it’s unlikely but one can hope

[The_Alchemist 1,261]

29 minutes ago, Doot Master Flex said:

Ian Murray looking at having the Xmas regatta rescheduled to the 7th,8th and 11th and 12th of Jan, to get more practice in if everyone agrees. 

No fckg way.  AM has already said they are booked solid on their schedule of testing and training.  They would never give up those days to help NZ practice racing.

[DickDastardly 234]

8 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

10 things, I have learned:

1) These machines look pretty bloody exciting in a decent breeze 

2) AC75's are capable of 'proper' match racing

3) The current lower wind limit is too low (unless sailing at 90 degrees floats (flys) your boat)

4) The sparkling Waitemata is not always an ideal sailing venue (but I already knew that)

5) Big jibs, tacked to bowsprits, might be useful after all

6) None of the teams have sailed anywhere near enough to understand the AC75's potential 

7) The Kiwis lack imagination in the starting box - but are fast learners

8) Professional fouls pay dividends 

9) Sir Ben and his team have quite a bit of work to do

10) Sitting on my arse watching TV is never as good as messing around in boats

BONUS:

11) The foils need floatation slip cover, so that when both arms are canted, the boats become trimarans and actually work on a downhill run.

Point 1) - I'd argue they're no more exciting to watch than just about any other class of well-matched boats  - the absolute speed isn't much of a factor, the relative speed of the two boats is.

I'd argue against point 2) as well.  There's not much serious mano-a-mano stuff going on before the start, there's really only one shot - as there was in Bermuda.  That itself is fun to watch but recall how the 12 metre or IACC lead mines used to circle and hunt each other in the pre-start back in the day and cross tacks ten times on a windward leg.  And, once racing the cost of falling off the foils is so high that the teams are primarily focused on that, shifts and minimising the numbers of tacks and gybes - the commentators called that.

[Horn Rock 1,360]

5 hours ago, Monkey said:

I hate to say it, but New Zealand failed spectacularly on the practice event.

What, by winning it?

[fish7yu 485]

5 hours ago, Monkey said:

I hate to say it, but New Zealand failed spectacularly on the practice event. Hopefully, things get better. 

？？？！！！

[Kiwing 398]

AM will just fit it into their training schedule, if they want?  It is all more knowledge about their adversaries? - all of them!

[Sailbydate 2,609]

36 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

Point 1) - I'd argue they're no more exciting to watch than just about any other class of well-matched boats  - the absolute speed isn't much of a factor, the relative speed of the two boats is.

I'd argue against point 2) as well.  There's not much serious mano-a-mano stuff going on before the start, there's really only one shot - as there was in Bermuda.  That itself is fun to watch but recall how the 12 metre or IACC lead mines used to circle and hunt each other in the pre-start back in the day and cross tacks ten times on a windward leg.  And, once racing the cost of falling off the foils is so high that the teams are primarily focused on that, shifts and minimising the numbers of tacks and gybes - the commentators called that.

I think you'll find there will be more starting action, the further they go up the apparent wind range.

[MaxHugen 825]

23 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

23 knots for AC final.

And I thought the limit was 24 knots.

So, 21, 23 or 24 knots... anyone know what they have really decided on, for all the races?

[Indio 904]

5 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

And I thought the limit was 24 knots.

So, 21, 23 or 24 knots... anyone know what they have really decided on, for all the races?

Prada Cup...

(a) during the Round Robins and Repechage stages - between 6.5 and 21 knots;
(b) during the Final – between 6.5 and 23 knots.

[MaxHugen 825]

11 minutes ago, Indio said:

Prada Cup...

(a) during the Round Robins and Repechage stages - between 6.5 and 21 knots;
(b) during the Final – between 6.5 and 23 knots.

Thanks!

[Tornado-Cat 934]

The image of the race (photo Matthew Seahan from the video feed)

[DickDastardly 234]

52 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

I think you'll find there will be more starting action, the further they go up the apparent wind range.

Based on what we saw in Bermuda, I doubt it

[DickDastardly 234]

9 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

The image of the race (photo Matthew Seahan from the video feed)

Close, but two 4ksb would be even closer, and no slower...

[Horn Rock 1,360]

Saw this on FB. Anyone know how this turned out? Got me channeling Miami Vice......

 

A spectator rammed another spectator today on the water, then rammed a police boat and a water pursuit started. Anyone know anything more?? Happened just after lunch.

 

[Indio 904]

The Italians might now be a tad more nervous and respectful of AM after Max's initial dismissive comments about their B2. That should generate an urgency in their preparations for the Prada Cup, and might force them to bring forward any mods they might have initially planned to bottom-shelf for the Match. I think it's fair to say that AM caught them by surprise and shattered any complacency that might have crept in...

[trt131 182]

17 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

Based on what we saw in Bermuda, I doubt it

Remember Bermuda was a reaching start not a windward start.  Therefore the tactics required are quite different.  Going full noise at the start was the go in Bermuda but in this AC it will be to get the the other team off the foils.

[The_Alchemist 1,261]

30 minutes ago, Indio said:

The Italians might now be a tad more nervous and respectful of AM after Max's initial dismissive comments about their B2. That should generate an urgency in their preparations for the Prada Cup, and might force them to bring forward any mods they might have initially planned to bottom-shelf for the Match. I think it's fair to say that AM caught them by surprise and shattered any complacency that might have crept in...

I agree. I think everyone thought that AM was just geared to stronger winds.  I think is surprised a lot of people how well they did in the lighter winds.

[minimumfuss 254]

6 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Was interesting to hear Blair Tuke pondering a gybe upwind to get around that top mark, foilborne.

Maybe the boys should have tried it. Nothing to lose, right? Imagine how heroic that would have been?

Interesting he was overridden, be an interesting debrief

51 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Saw this on FB. Anyone know how this turned out? Got me channeling Miami Vice......

 

A spectator rammed another spectator today on the water, then rammed a police boat and a water pursuit started. Anyone know anything more?? Happened just after lunch.

 

Wouldnt be surprised. I have heard of some shithead skippers pissed as farts with a boatload of spectators aboard, so I am not surprised. Some were ignorant of the 5 knt speed limit around the harbour.  There were some pretty large vessels all trying to anchor in wind vs tide all up close, most did a pretty good job, some were clearly not familiar with how boats swing at anchor. I think the course needs to be twice as big to accommodate all the boats for the cup finals.  Communicating mainly via facebook to the spectator fleet is crap and needs improved, IM did say this in the presser. 

[Horn Rock 1,360]

10 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

 I think is surprised a lot of people how well they did in the lighter winds.

Getting passed and losing by a kilometre is doing well in light winds? Okay......

[Horn Rock 1,360]

2 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

I have heard of some shithead skippers pissed as farts with a boatload of spectators aboard,

Like these clowns......

[minimumfuss 254]

Theres lots of banter about the race in a failing breeze, what about the opposite. If they start in 20kt and it ends up blowing 30? Will the same logic apply and they sail until there is a result? Think in SF they called off some races due to overspeed wind?

Personally I think once started the race should finish unless theres an issue such as MOB or dismasting. Part of sailing whether to continue to glory or risk the rig. Arent the mains reefable in the rules? Now that would be a proper race. Dropping the jib in a nasty chop with no railings and chucking a reef in before foiling home in 30 kts.

Shit maybe I just gave away ETNZs secret weapon...

[Sailbydate 2,609]

31 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

Interesting he was overridden, be an interesting debrief

Wouldnt be surprised. I have heard of some shithead skippers pissed as farts with a boatload of spectators aboard, so I am not surprised. Some were ignorant of the 5 knt speed limit around the harbour.  There were some pretty large vessels all trying to anchor in wind vs tide all up close, most did a pretty good job, some were clearly not familiar with how boats swing at anchor. I think the course needs to be twice as big to accommodate all the boats for the cup finals.  Communicating mainly via facebook to the spectator fleet is crap and needs improved, IM did say this in the presser. 

Could Auckland Coastguard help out with general broadcast for RM? For a suitable donation of course.

[DickDastardly 234]

1 hour ago, trt131 said:

Remember Bermuda was a reaching start not a windward start.  Therefore the tactics required are quite different.  Going full noise at the start was the go in Bermuda but in this AC it will be to get the the other team off the foils.

True, but you want to avoid falling off the foils yourself in cruelling your opponent.  Absolutely agree that's going to a key strategic consideration but I'd expect the risk of your own boat falling off the foils will limit aggression.  Full noise will also be the preferred starting approach in these boats, I reckon.

[Priscilla 2,372]

Positive vibes coming from Ian Murray  regarding more racing before Prada Cup kick off.

[Nutta 413]

3 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Positive vibes coming from Ian Murray  regarding more racing before Prada Cup kick off.

The race management folk need the practice. Not said in a mean way.

[jaysper 692]

2 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Positive vibes coming from Ian Murray  regarding more racing before Prada Cup kick off.

I hope so. The loss of development time will hurt the challengers more than the defender.

[jaysper 692]

Just now, Nutta said:

The race management folk need the practice. Not said in a mean way.

So could the broadcasting team.

The quality is markedly lower than Bermuda at the moment.

[snaerk 67]

6 hours ago, phill_nz said:

i was wondering why etnz didnt just head straight for the gate in displacement .. perhaps

... they dont know enough about displacement speeds so didnt know if they could make it in time

... they didnt think of it

 

 

praps fresh rayss was a preferibel opshin

[Forourselves 1,175]

2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

I agree. I think everyone thought that AM was just geared to stronger winds.  I think is surprised a lot of people how well they did in the lighter winds.

They did?

[nav 577]

7 hours ago, Doot Master Flex said:

Ian Murray looking at having the Xmas regatta rescheduled to the 7th,8th and 11th and 12th of Jan, to get more practice in if everyone agrees. 

Making a one day event into a four day one - how does that work. I mean, even allowing for the missing reserve day......??

[barfy 1,141]

9 hours ago, sailman said:

I don’t think they can let the main out far enough to do that.

I heard Pete suggest they split the main one skin per side  serious

[Chimp too 308]

It is real shame that these guys can’t make sail changes when racing. The choice has to be made way before the start. Would add an extra element if we saw them hoisting the CZ when got light. We might also see more crew work than a shot of a guy turning a wheel.

[Rennmaus 2,382]

6 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

It is real shame that these guys can’t make sail changes when racing. The choice has to be made way before the start. Would add an extra element if we saw them hoisting the CZ when got light. We might also see more crew work than a shot of a guy turning a wheel.

This is another thing that I dearly miss, sail handling. It's actually an integral part of sailing. At least that's what I thought, until the AC did away with it.

[The_Alchemist 1,261]

10 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Getting passed and losing by a kilometre is doing well in light winds? Okay......

They had the same cant problem and fell off their foils.  Nice selective memory.

[Horn Rock 1,360]

2 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

They had the same cant problem and fell off their foils.

You got evidence it was a cant problem?

[The_Alchemist 1,261]

1 minute ago, Horn Rock said:

You got evidence it was a cant problem?

Did you even watch the race?  Shirley mentions it during the race as a mechanical problem.  And later in an interview with either Dean or someone from AM they said they are having problems with the foil arm moving.  It happen a couple of times in earlier races.

But the point was that AM was able to hold a lead on NZ in the light air through the first 3 legs of the race.   You can not do that if your boat speed is significantly slower.

[Horn Rock 1,360]

41 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Did you even watch the race?

Yeah I have watched the race - multiple times......sounds like you haven't. 

41 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Shirley mentions it during the race as a mechanical problem.

You need to get your hearing checked. Shirley says they may have had a "manual" problem. She says it twice. 

41 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

But the point was that AM was able to hold a lead on NZ in the light air through the first 3 legs of the race.   You can not do that if your boat speed is significantly slower

In their first race ENTZ had a couple of big fluffs yet still came back to pass AM. AM didn't show that sort of speed.

[Barnyb 460]

14 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

The image of the race (photo Matthew Seahan from the video feed)

Lapped!

[Jono 42]

I thought the crowd on Sunday was pretty good. There were big issues around the cable area, but that was well forecast to the Marshalls early in the day. Coming home was also very good. Probably the best I've seen considering the numbers of boats.

[DA-WOODY 1,023]

11 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

You got evidence it was a cant problem?

can't foil = Problem

[Sailbydate 2,609]

4 hours ago, Jono said:

I thought the crowd on Sunday was pretty good. There were big issues around the cable area, but that was well forecast to the Marshalls early in the day. Coming home was also very good. Probably the best I've seen considering the numbers of boats.

Prohibited anchorage and playing bumper boats? America's Cup raceday 1 will be interesting, no?