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Quick Thoughts after Day 1:   Race 1:  The Kiwi’s completely dominate Italy.  Better start, faster boat, better maneuvers, better everything.  Instant reaction is it is tough to believe that

Learnings for TVNZ live coverage? DON'T RUN THE FUCKING ADS THROUGH THE PRE-START/START!!!!! Muppets. 

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What a cracker day with more to come tomorrow can’t wait.

Bloody shame the royal barge is such a shocker though.

The Handbags getting so heavily spanked by TNZ first up was a surprise for me thought it would have been a little closer.

Looking forward to Amway2go up against the Handbags.

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2 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

I think the gains upwind by the kiwis were because of better tacking.  AM was slower and didn't point as high out of the tacks which gave NZ a big gain on every tack.

Ya, their tacks were way quicker and smoother, except for one... nice to have some close racing to watch, I hope that it stays close....

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1 minute ago, fish7yu said:

A great tacking duel on the last beat of the race, very well sailed by Barker, hope to see a lot more of it moving forward.

We saw today most match-racing tactics we never did in Bermuda. Can't ask for a more successful debut for a new AC Class  than that, after only 4 races.

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28 minutes ago, NJF said:

Seemed like Kiwis way faster up and AM faster down... that was a fun race to watch! 

 

The great thing in this race is that the Kiwis have to improve downwind speed. Thanks to AM our weakness has been shown and we now know what we have to work on.

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42 minutes ago, Enzedel92 said:

Ken reade has to realize both boats were careening into the spectator fleet so TR bailing out was the proper call for fucks sake.

Yes and Peter Burling thought AM still had a penalty so there was confusion on Pete's behalf and the penalty it seems. In reality the Kiwis had a stack of issues, dipped the boat in the drink a few times and still could have won. When Burling instigated a tacking duel and Deano accepted the Kiwis were gaining all the time. They aren't showing VMG speeds only boat speed which doesn't always mean a lot but clearly ETNZ still the boat to beat. American Magic looked better than Prada to my eyes and the margins suggested that. AM topped out at 47.3 knots downwind and at one stage the Kiwis were doing 40 Knots upwind. A stack faster than the cats as we expected. Ineos clearly least time on the water and it shows. American Magic more time on the water, less time on the simulator so good on them. Still all the boats have their newer foils to come and whatever other tweaks so early days but at least we got one very good race, the others boring.

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10 minutes ago, mako23 said:

The great thing in this race is that the Kiwis have to improve downwind speed. Thanks to AM our weakness has been shown and we now know what we have to work on.

Yes but if the Kiwis didn't have issues at the start they would have gotten to the top mark 1st most likely. Despite all their issues they still could have won pretty scary and still the boat to beat IMO

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10 minutes ago, mako23 said:

As a kiwi I hope that ETNZ don’t make any excuses. Take our loses with dignity and move on. 

No excuses. AM sailed a great race. They are looking very solid. Hard to see LRPP or INEOS getting close to them from here.

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Quick Thoughts after Day 1:

 

Race 1:  The Kiwi’s completely dominate Italy.  Better start, faster boat, better maneuvers, better everything.  Instant reaction is it is tough to believe that anything from this point is going to be competitive from Italy with regards to challenging the Kiwi’s.  With Spithill’s experience I would have expected them to be better, but perhaps this is his”inflection point” let the team realize how much work they need to do.  Now he can drive his “I am going to be hard on everyone including myself, and you all see you deserve it because we were … not good” ethic.  Perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel, perhaps Jimmy can get something out of them, but it seems like an uphill struggle.

Race 2: The British, the British, the British … all the talk about the boat being dodgy, and the sailors not having a lot of confidence in it … well it looks like the first part is true, and with how bad it looked, the second part is now very likely, even if it wasn’t true before.  Tough to see if the US were good or bad at this stage, but the boat looked OK, the maneuvers were OK, she seemed fast, and well Barker is Barker - he has so much experience and understanding of what is required, it was unlikely the US were going to be terrible.

Race: 3: *sigh*, Luna Rossa didn’t really get to race because Rita keeps tripping over her own knickers.  Jimmy wasn’t happy and even after the Brits forfeited, kept the boys out to run laps (see Race 1 “hard on everyone”) after the crappy first race.  Hard to get anything out of this other than perhaps Rita is in worse shape than she looked after her first race.  However, the caveat is that she might bounce the highest because there could be a lot of potential in there … they just have to make sure she holds together to get it out and then be confident enough to push her.  They have some time, but they also have a lot of work to do.

Race 4: Well thank goodness … if the Kiwi’s had stomped the American’s 50% of the sailing population would have gone back into AC hibernation.  But thankfully the Kiwi’s had some issues, and Barker knows how to sail.  The Kiwi’s got their shizzle together and Barker got conservative (as he does).  The mistake on closing out the top mark was a lack of racing experience in the boat rather than what most people will say is “classic Barker” (in my opinion).  The American’s looked quite capable, but perhaps got lucky, it also showed the Kiwi’s are not invincible, or even truthfully as polished as they looked in their first race.  Pressure creates mistakes.

 

All in all it is hard not to be pretty happy with Day 1, if the Kiwi’s had won against the US, the challenger fleet would have likely been (rightly) demoralized.  However the US winning just engages everyone, the challengers, the Kiwi’s the fans, great for the event.

The Kiwi;’s can feel good, destroying Luna Rossa, and then can (perhaps rightly) point to solvable problems that would have given them a win over American Magic.  The loss will give them a kick, and will shake of any complacencies that might have been brewing (in the unlikely event any were).  They are a sensible group … either way (winning or losing) against the US they would have kept their heads down and worked hard, now they have a reason to, so it’ll be a bit easier.

The US can feel good … Patriot is undefeated, and they have faced the “big bad” and won.  They too know they have things to fix, and they weren’t perfect either in their win over the Kiwi’s.  They have a lot of experience and a boat that seems to be able to be competitive, and in the America’s Cup - you can’t ask for any more than that.  Now it is just keeping on and keeping up, there is a long way to go and that is what the old wise heads will be saying to the team, there is a long way to go.

The Italian’s have to be a bit concerned, is it crew work or boat speed (or crew work and boat speed)?  Firstly it is crew work, they were slow and they need to get better, but will the boat let them get better enough to a realistic challenger to the Kiwi’s?  Jimmy will be able to train them to death, push them be better than they can be, but there is a lot of work to do and Luna Rossa showed none of the “spark” the Patriot showed. 

The British, well, can they make the boat work for a whole race?   If they do, will they have enough time to figure out is it fast enough?  Will they be confident enough to push it?  They now start in a massive hole.  How confident can they be in the boat?  Another issue for them now is that every other boat has two races worth of data, and they have maybe one.  And in our data driven world, data is gold.  They already likely have a lot of issues … they just keep piling up.

Heaps of fun watching - hope you enjoyed reading.

c

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I think ETNZ's loss to AM today is actually benefiting the Kiwi's in the long run, rather than always run away with superior speed, ETNZ learned valuable lessons on real match racing conditions, faced initial pre-start issues, trying to recover after mistakes, attempting difficult maneuvers, initiating tacking duels, fighting for positions rounding marks....... etc.  basically the whole package in one race.

Once ETNZ polish up their act, they are going to be hard to beat.

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6 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Learnings for TVNZ live coverage?

DON'T RUN THE FUCKING ADS THROUGH THE PRE-START/START!!!!! Muppets. 

I’ll bang on some more the blonde bit of fluff and the Maori in shorts gotta go the Blair Tuke comedy piece was as juvenile and puerile as they come.

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1 minute ago, Priscilla said:

I’ll bang on some more the blonde bit of fluff and the Maori in shorts gotta go the Blair Tuke comedy price was as puerile as they come.

I ended up watching the youtube live broadcast on the TV and the stern-cam feed on the PC cast onto the other 55-incher, listening to Read, Shirley and Nathan.

Who the fuck was that guy in shorts??

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9 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Learnings for TVNZ live coverage?

DON'T RUN THE FUCKING ADS THROUGH THE PRE-START/START!!!!! 

Just now, jaysper said:

Ramen!

Open to feedback but all in all felt the YouTube experience a lot better, especially the ability to have multiple view points. ( I had three laptops going ) 

TVNZ was about 5-8 seconds ahead of YouTube, so anything significant meant you can grab the onboard commentary a few seconds later on YT. 

 

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Just got in.  Americascup.com in Australia.

image.png.7a4d2f038d05793fe4865a36b9388849.pngNot this shit again WTF! was this bullshit about making it available to all?

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14 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

Once ETNZ polish up their act, they are going to be hard to beat.

Yes. But don't forget AM will be doing the same - although at this stage, just how much competition they'll encounter in the Challenger Series is up for debate.

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13 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

Once ETNZ polish up their act, they are going to be hard to beat.

TR is quick, but two huge blunders from Burling in that last race. Need to sort that shit out. He was quick to point out the positives, but he needs to own his mistakes. That was just flat out bad sailing. He is our wonder boy, but I hope GD is not soft on him, and they keep it real within the team.

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6 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Yes. But don't forget AM will be doing the same - although at this stage, just how much competition they'll encounter in the Challenger Series is up for debate.

Yup and it wasn’t that light today Amway2go just looked markedly more nimble compared to TR In manoeuvrability.

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21 minutes ago, astro said:

Just got in.  Americascup.com in Australia.

image.png.7a4d2f038d05793fe4865a36b9388849.pngNot this shit again WTF! was this bullshit about making it available to all?

Foxtel

I watched it on the iPad but couldn’t get it to mirror on Apple TV, the sound worked but the screen was black with FOXTEL in large letters

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4 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Yes. But don't forget AM will be doing the same - although at this stage, just how much competition they'll encounter in the Challenger Series is up for debate.

AM is certainly the most polished team at the moment with the amount of time they had spent on the water todate, obvious like everyone else, they will only get better.

ETNZ is going to be on the back foot once the Xmas Race is over in terms of race conditioning, they really needs some hard competition like today, I was glad to see that ETNZ loss a close race rather than walking away with ease wins, it will help them to push harder towards March instead of falling into false sense of complacency going into the Cup Finals.

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17 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

TR is quick, but two huge blunders from Burling in that last race. Need to sort that shit out. He was quick to point out the positives, but he needs to own his mistakes. That was just flat out bad sailing. He is our wonder boy, but I hope GD is not soft on him, and they keep it real within the team.

NZ fucked up so many things in that race and only lost by 12 seconds.! AM were almost flawless but Barker got conservative as he does and should never have let the Kiwis get the overlap at the top mark. Pete Burling was confused about the penalty and thought it best to gybe out from a controlling position. Lot's of mistakes but my summary is this: 

1. ETNZ still the boat to beat by a fair bit

2. America Magic most time on the water, less time on the simulator, great allround boat 

3. Prada not ahead of AM looking at today's performances and race 1. They sailed quite well but got spanked. (We saw Kiwis at their best)

4. Ineos least time on the water and plenty of work to do. Grant Simmer must take responsibility as CEO IMO. 

5. All teams have their best foils to come and plenty of tweaking so some things could change

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9 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Yup and it wasn’t that light today Amway2go just looked markedly more nimble compared to TR In manoeuvrability.

TR had caught up in the tacking duel, so AM are very stable in maneuvers, but not necessarily fast, AM are definitely very fast downwind in a straight line.

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5 minutes ago, Rushman said:

Foxtel

I watched it on the iPad but couldn’t get it to mirror on Apple TV, the sound worked but the screen was black with FOXTEL in large letters

Fuck Grant Dalton and his bullshit.  That's not free to air.

Fuck their website for blocking it in Australia.

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2 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

NZ fucked up so many things in that race and only lost by 12 seconds.!

Well, lets hope they don't do that shit in the match. A loss is still a loss.  Was a bit surprised with Burling today. That mark rounding then into a quick tack, was a pure hail Mary - nothing good about that decision. Then at the top mark he should have pinned AM and sent them into the fucking spectator fleet. His confusion was no excuse.

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4 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

NZ fucked up so many things in that race and only lost by 12 seconds.! AM were almost flawless but Barker got conservative as he does and should never have let the Kiwis get the overlap at the top mark. Pete Burling was confused about the penalty and thought it best to gybe out from a controlling position. Lot's of mistakes but my summary is this: 

1. ETNZ still the boat to beat by a fair bit

2. America Magic most time on the water, less time on the simulator, great allround boat 

3. Prada not ahead of AM looking at today's performances and race 1. They sailed quite well but got spanked. (We say Kiwis at their best)

4. Ineos least time on the water and plenty of work to do. Grant Simmer must take responsibility as CEO IMO. 

5. All teams have their best foils to come and plenty of tweaking so some things could change

Problem is that we have no idea how much sand ETNZ & AM had on board.

With regards to LR & BAR, it is hard to imagine they are sandbagging, because if they were then they would lose by a BIT not a whole suburb. But who the fark knows.

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1 minute ago, Horn Rock said:

Well, lets hope they don't do that shit in the match. A loss is still a loss.  Was a bit surprised with Burling today. That mark rounding then into a quick tack, was a pure hail Mary - nothing good about that decision. Then at the top mark he should have pinned AM and sent them into the fucking spectator fleet. His confusion was no excuse.

That spectator fleet was way over the boundary, they need to sort that shit out.

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43 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Learnings for TVNZ live coverage?

DON'T RUN THE FUCKING ADS THROUGH THE PRE-START/START!!!!! Muppets. 

The International feed on YouTube is much better, no commercials, and high quality commentators with Ken Read, Nathan Outteridge and Shirley Robertson.

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4 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Well, lets hope they don't do that shit in the match. A loss is still a loss.  Was a bit surprised with Burling today. That mark rounding then into a quick tack, was a pure hail Mary - nothing good about that decision. Then at the top mark he should have pinned AM and sent them into the fucking spectator fleet. His confusion was no excuse.

Jeeezus. Tough crowd today. Early days, HR. 

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Just now, Sailbydate said:

 Tough crowd today. Early days, HR. 

I know SBD, but you can't gloss over stuff. Apart from that tacking duel where they gained, everywhere else, including all the downwind legs, they were tactically shit.

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3 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Jeeezus. Tough crowd today. Early days, HR. 

Agreed. This has done nothing to shake my confidence that ETNZ will successfully defend the cup.

I said on here about 2 weeks ago that I felt AM will be the (unsuccessful) challenger and I stand by that.

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Just now, Horn Rock said:

I know SBD, but you can't gloss over stuff. Apart from that tacking duel where they gained, everywhere else, including all the downwind legs, they were tactically shit.

Just remember last time Pete made quite a few glaring mistakes. And still won the Cup.

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5 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

The International feed on YouTube is much better, no commercials, and high quality commentators with Ken Read, Nathan Outteridge and Shirley Robertson.

Agree, I don't think you could pick a better team.

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Holy shit. I watched the YT live feed of the racing, which was okay, but damn the Kiwi feed is soooo much better! The commentary is much better, with Phil Robertson, Chris Steele and Pete Lester. 

I watched both feeds, TVNZ and YT live feeds, I don't think TVNZ commentary is any better than the YT commentary, TVNZ is too pro Kiwi and gets interrupted with commercials missed some important coverage such as the pre-starts.  I enjoyed watching both coverage together, it is like having additional commentators with different views that you won't get by only watching one feed.

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8 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

The International feed on YouTube is much better, no commercials, and high quality commentators with Ken Read, Nathan Outteridge and Shirley Robertson.

I haven't heard the TV1 feed - most likely won't ever - but I enjoyed Ken and the gang. NO was a great addition.

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10 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

The International feed on YouTube is much better, no commercials, and high quality commentators with Ken Read, Nathan Outteridge and Shirley Robertson.

Got a link please?

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Just remember last time Pete made quite a few glaring mistakes. And still won the Cup.

Every time he does make a mistake we tend to lose a race. Happened in race 6 of the match in Bermuda when he failed to cover. I just hope within the team they're honest about what went wrong.

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1 minute ago, fish7yu said:

I watched both feeds, TVNZ and YT live feeds, I don't think TVNZ commentary is any better than the YT commentary, TVNZ is too pro Kiwi and gets interrupted with commercials missed some important coverage such as the pre-starts.  I enjoyed watching both coverage together, it is like having additional commentators with different views that you won't get by only watching one feed.

Commercials were ridiculously timed, Yes, but in terms of knowledgeable commentary, Pete Lester and Phil Robertson are far better than Shirley and Ken. The Kiwi commentary team are discussing jib trim, mainsail/ wing trim, twin skins, skegs and how they work, sail area, endplate effect and how and why all those aspects work together to make the boat go fast. They talk about where the winches are located, deck and cockpit layout, foil shapes, why and how they work, as well as knowing who the guys are in the boats.

They just need to sort their shit out with commercial timing.

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Commercials were ridiculously timed, Yes, but in terms of knowledgeable commentary, Pete Lester and Phil Robertson are far better than Shirley and Ken. The Kiwi commentary team are discussing jib trim, mainsail/ wing trim, twin skins, skegs and how they work, sail area, endplate effect and how and why all those aspects work together to make the boat go fast. They talk about where the winches are located, deck and cockpit layout, foil shapes, why and how they work, as well as knowing who the guys are in the boats.

They just need to sort their shit out with commercial timing.

Cool if you're new to all this shit, but if you've spent the last 3 years here analyzing yellow lines then all of that is bullshit.

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2 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

That Urban VPN Chrome extension seemed to work for me as the live youtube feed came through. Couldn't cast it to the TV through Chromecast though, as it has a built in Youtube app which said fuck off.

You would need to connect to tele with HDMI cable to bypass the built in app

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8 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

Cool if you're new to all this shit, but if you've spent the last 3 years here analyzing yellow lines then all of that is bullshit.

And those yellow lines are white noise. The problem with Ken Read is his commentary is catered toward his target audience, which for the most part, is the US, UK, and Euro audience which (Don't take this the wrong way) but probably isn't as knowledgeable or passionate about sailing and The Americas Cup as the Kiwi audience is, so he doesn't do in depth analysis the way the Kiwi commentators do, because he knows it'll go straight over his Audience heads.

He and Shirley are very much "wow look at the cool boats going really fast" type of commentary, where the Kiwi commentators are much more about what, how and why things happen the way they do. The intricacies of wing and jib trim, endplating and why the teams seek that effect, different sail set-ups etc Phil Robertson and Nathan Outteridge would make a great commentary team.

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Commercials were ridiculously timed, Yes, but in terms of knowledgeable commentary, Pete Lester and Phil Robertson are far better than Shirley and Ken. The Kiwi commentary team are discussing jib trim, mainsail/ wing trim, twin skins, skegs and how they work, sail area, endplate effect and how and why all those aspects work together to make the boat go fast. They talk about where the winches are located, deck and cockpit layout, foil shapes, why and how they work, as well as knowing who the guys are in the boats.

They just need to sort their shit out with commercial timing.

Pete Lester obviously have more inside information, but I think it is pointless to compare who does a better commentary, if you watched both feeds together, it would be like having a entire commentating team of Peter Lester, Phil Robertson, Chris Steele, Ken Read, Nathan Outteridge and Shirley Robertson, what can be better?!

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Race 4 was quite a race. Lots of variables on angles sailed. Tactically, ETNZ had some issues, but AM didn't sail a perfect race either. Barker did well to hold the Kiwis out.

Screen Shot 2020-12-17 at 8.09.16 PM.png

Screen Shot 2020-12-17 at 8.19.03 PM.png

Screen Shot 2020-12-17 at 8.27.14 PM.png

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14 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

Pete Lester obviously have more inside information, but I think it is pointless to compare who does a better commentary, if you watched both feeds together, it would be like having a entire commentating team of Peter Lester, Phil Robertson, Chris Steele, Ken Read, Nathan Outteridge and Shirley Robertson, what can be better?!

Also, what is pretty interesting with the YT feed, it has 3 additional angles of racing coverage, the Virtual Eye angle, Port entry stern angle and Starboard entry stern angle, these had quite a lot of onboard audio/video that can be very educating.

 

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I'm glad for his sake that Barker held on to win today: he looked decidedly flustered when ETNZ pulled up to less than 100 metres as a result of the tacking duel. His confidence might have got bruised had AM lost after conceding a 400+-metre lead.

I'm not sure whether engaging ETNZ in the tacking duel was not Hutche's call, or whether the flustered look on Deano's face meant it was his.

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1 minute ago, Indio said:

I'm glad for his sake that Barker held on to win today: he looked decidedly flustered when ETNZ pulled up to less than 100 metres as a result of the tacking duel. His confidence might have got bruised had AM lost after conceding a 400+-metre lead.

I'm not sure whether engaging ETNZ in the tacking duel was not Hutche's call, or whether the flustered look on Deano's face meant it was his.

the real embarrasing part was when they misjudged the layline by two boatlengths from about 100m out. Fortunately got saved by Pete forgetting how to match race

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1 minute ago, thetruth said:

He should be used to losing by now. Great to see the major sponsor losing hundreds of millions on Trump and now this....................

Just waiting for the trumpscum-in-chief to claim AM's win as one of his "achievements", like his claims on the covid vaccines.

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14 minutes ago, crashtack said:

the real embarrasing part was when they misjudged the layline by two boatlengths from about 100m out. Fortunately got saved by Pete forgetting how to match race

Yep. That was a shocker.

Screen Shot 2020-12-17 at 8.22.00 PM.png

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ETNZ has 2 matches against INEOS tomorrow.  Whilst I don't support the Brits, I feel horribly for them for what happened today.  Let's hope that they sort out their gremlins and are fighting fit tomorrow.

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13 minutes ago, Ripclaw said:

ETNZ has 2 matches against INEOS tomorrow.  Whilst I don't support the Brits, I feel horribly for them for what happened today.  Let's hope that they sort out their gremlins and are fighting fit tomorrow.

Sir Ben told Ken Read that they had cant and "battery problems". Since each arm is powered independently by its own battery-powered hydraulic system backed up by an accumulator, it sounds like an easy fix - it that's all it was. I can't accept that their tech guys did not check and triple-check that all batteries were fully charged, secured, etc. Hope it wasn't a case of water in the battery circuitry.

The other 3 Competitors use the identical supplied items.

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1 hour ago, fish7yu said:

 

image.png.ca4cd40ed790666a7a5f59e83a05c7be.png

Doesn't matter.  Just spoofed my location and watched it on the AC website.

So much for the bullshit dalton was on about broadcasting to the masses.  He just took the money.

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3 minutes ago, Indio said:

Sir Ben told Ken Read that they had cant and "battery problems". Since each arm is powered independently by its own battery-powered hydraulic system backed up by an accumulator, it sounds like an easy fix - it that's all it was. I can't accept that their tech guys did not check and triple-check that all batteries were fully charged, secured, etc. Hope it wasn't a case of water in the battery circuitry.

The other 3 Competitors use the identical supplied items.

Ainslie blamed it squarely on ETNZ and the supplied FCS not working properly or as it should.

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Ainslie blamed it squarely on ETNZ and the supplied FCS not working properly or as it should.

Bullshit! The canting system and integrated hydraulic system is Cariboni's.

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15 minutes ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Please explain.

I want to watch too.

Download TOR Browser.  Use it instead of the ones you have that identify the country you are in.

 

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22 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Ainslie blamed it squarely on ETNZ and the supplied FCS not working properly or as it should.

Ben will blame anyone he can.  He is never wrong.

Everytime something goes wrong he swears and blames the crew, NZ, god, the weather, anyone and anything but his fault.

I want to knw why Ben left the dock with equipment he knew was fucked.  He put his crew in danger!

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4 hours ago, Indio said:

Cant system failure and problems with their batteries? If these are all included in the supplied items, Ineos might want to investigate potential recourse if they've been supplied with dodgy equipment.

Sir Ben must read ACA  :D

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/123749789/americas-cup-sir-ben-ainslie-points-finger-at-team-new-zealand-for-his-problems?cid=app-iPhone

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10 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

... The system obviously works well enough for the other teams to use so his should be no different.

Unless, as I suspect, they've modified the supplied systems (hydraulics, FCS)

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