J/122, IRC with a sym?

[mezaire 32]

Hey guys,

 

Not much info to be found so I thought I'd ask around.

Someone I know maybe be looking for a 40ft-ish boat to race here in Oz in an IRC fleet.  Woiuld be a mixture of round the bouys, long day races (coastal) and 2-3 night coastal races.

Conditions here are all over the place, not what you would call a heavy or light air venue, but usually gusty.

Sym boats tend to do better on IRC and other rating formulas as there are a few 'lanes' that you need to sail down in a seabreeze and if you have an assy you just can't stay in that lane.

Plenty of boats from 25 to 50ft have tried to race here with assy's only and never really do well on rating.

So would does anyone know of anyone putting a pole on a J/125?  Ideally keeping the sprit as well.  Yes I know the rating would go up a bit for the pole but I think it might still sail to it's rating.

The benchmark yachts to beat are a very well sailed Sydney 36 which rates 1.033 and a IRC mod Farr 40 which rates 1.114.

There are 3 x Mumm 36's here which rate about 1.075, so if the J/122 was quicker than them that would be a good start as they are usually mid/top half of the fleet on IRC.

[JL92S 209]

I raced a J122 a few years back in the UK that had a sym setup for W/L racing. The setup worked pretty well, we chose not to decrease spinnaker area so we ended up rating at 1.091 instead of 1.086 with the overlength pole. Strangely enough the boat has just come back on the market

[mezaire 32]

55 minutes ago, JL92S said:

I raced a J122 a few years back in the UK that had a sym setup for W/L racing. The setup worked pretty well, we chose not to decrease spinnaker area so we ended up rating at 1.091 instead of 1.086 with the overlength pole. Strangely enough the boat has just come back on the market

And they can race to that rating pretty well?

The results I've seen have been pretty good!!

[JL92S 209]

In sub 12kts I would say the benefit isn’t there but anything 12-25kts the boat sailed the same speed downwind but at 165-180°T rather than 150-165°T. Our main competition was First 40s, a couple of Mills 40s as well as a couple of regular rigged 122s and we generally beat the other 122s and could place in the top 3 in most races. The Mills boats rated around the 1.11-1.13 area and we could beat them on handicap with the breeze up. The first 40s we had an edge over downwind and upwind but anything reaching they were fast. We had an A0, A1.5 (both flew off the bowsprit but retracted to STL length) S2 and S4

[mezaire 32]

5 minutes ago, JL92S said:

In sub 12kts I would say the benefit isn’t there but anything 12-25kts the boat sailed the same speed downwind but at 165-180°T rather than 150-165°T. Our main competition was First 40s, a couple of Mills 40s as well as a couple of regular rigged 122s and we generally beat the other 122s and could place in the top 3 in most races. The Mills boats rated around the 1.11-1.13 area and we could beat them on handicap with the breeze up. The first 40s we had an edge over downwind and upwind but anything reaching they were fast. We had an A0, A1.5 (both flew off the bowsprit but retracted to STL length) S2 and S4

Thanks heaps for the info!!!

Sounds like a good boat for down here!

[jackolantern 470]

Would agree, but only with the caveat that you should keep the sprit and asym setup for distance racing. The J/122 is a great boat for IRC distance stuff.

[Frogman56 89]

And if the pole and sprit stl are the same, no rating penalty.

One key sail is a strongly built masthead A3, designed not for vmg but AP, usable on the pole.

As soon as tws over ~ 16, this is the go to.

Range for SYM actually quite narrow, perhaps 10 to 18 tws.

[mezaire 32]

25 minutes ago, Frogman56 said:

And if the pole and sprit stl are the same, no rating penalty.

One key sail is a strongly built masthead A3, designed not for vmg but AP, usable on the pole.

As soon as tws over ~ 16, this is the go to.

Range for SYM actually quite narrow, perhaps 10 to 18 tws.

Just added a pole (shorter than stl, just)  to another sprit boat down here and it took a small rating hit due to now having a rotating pole.

10-18 TWS is a pretty wide band really but the thing is, in the long races down here in a seabreeze, there is an alley probably 400m wide by 3nm long that is you stray out of, you struggle.

And I think the plan would defiantly to keep the sprit , for Zero's and distance stuff.

Anyone ever races a J/122 against a Mumm 36?

[Frogman56 89]

Oops...SYM for 10 to 18 vmg running

[Sebyseb 45]

Pen Azen went sym with a 109 and 122 and did bring a LOT of silverware back from both sides of the Channel.

Won RORC overall in 2008

Do not keep the pole and sprit. Pole STL only, or rating hit will kill you.

[mezaire 32]

55 minutes ago, Sebyseb said:

Pen Azen went sym with a 109 and 122 and did bring a LOT of silverware back from both sides of the Channel.

Won RORC overall in 2008

Do not keep the pole and sprit. Pole STL only, or rating hit will kill you.

Interestingly we did this on an Elan S4 recently (added pole to the same length as sprit) and added about 0.007 on IRC.

The hit was more than worth it though as with just poling the A2 back, in 15 knots the boat went from 7.5kn to 8kn and from 155TWA to 170TWA!!

As I said above, the venue requires some downwind 'lane' sailing in certain winds so it has made a huge difference!

[Sebyseb 45]

interesting, we tried with the A35 and did not see it worth the hit. Maybe we should have tried anyways