trimaran A trimaran daysailer foraging boomers

[Dex Sawash 719]

3 hours ago, Fat Point Jack said:

Another one.

https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/col/boa/d/naples-florida-homemade-sailboat/7306414676.html

 

 

What is it? 

[Phat Buoy 4]

On 4/14/2021 at 8:49 AM, OldmateFred said:

That is how I ended up with one of these also. This is the 16ft version of the 10fter. Not the normal rig but borrowed from various beach cats. I couldn't afford a WETA so built instead. There are a few good small tri designs out there backed by the designers if you are looking to build since there is nothing in the market to buy.

 

Nice!  Nothing wrong with a Taipan 4.9 rig.  5.7 would be even better  Where did the design for the platform come from?  Any further info available?

[Tomfl 34]

On 4/17/2021 at 8:01 AM, dragontri said:

Phil's SEBAGO was actually a trimaran, the pictured catamaran was built later by Walter Greene. And the wing mast on that

 cat is the one from my 54 ft OSTAR tri Kriter VII/Fleetwing which I sold them when I decided that it would be wiser to tone down the rig a bit for cruising after sailing her through the perfect storm (yes, the real one, in 1991). To clarify, Kriter VII didn't have a wingmast in the 1980 OSTAR when Tom Grossman humped a monohull at the start; the wing was built and rigged by Walter Greene after the Canadians flipped her near the Azores (as Radio Canada at the time) and lost the original rig

Thx 4 the update.  I was returning from my three month cruise to the Dry Tortugas and captured that image sailing past Key West.  I was sailing and could not point as high as the fake Sebago.  

[Tomfl 34]

Still fantasising about doing the EC and ran across this in the facebook watertribe page.  It does have an unstayed mast but not sure how wet it would be or how fast the setup would be.  One for sale in Santa Barbra, 20 years old and refurbished for $US12,000.  No idea how much a new one costs but I did inquire and waiting for an answer.

Holopuni OC3 Sailing Outrigger Canoe — Holopuni Canoes

[Tomfl 34]

A lot of the pix show Mistral sails that seem to be straight off a windsurfer but they are pinheads like the one in this vid.  I would bet it would be possible to use a more modern full batten Mistral/windsurfer sail.  In any case this was the first time I have seen a boat like this and it does seem interesting.

 

(140) HOLOPUNI CANOES by DVDYOURLIFE.COM - YouTube

[OldmateFred 23]

44 minutes ago, Phat Buoy said:

Nice!  Nothing wrong with a Taipan 4.9 rig.  5.7 would be even better  Where did the design for the platform come from?  Any further info available?

Maybe. I originally had Hobie 18 sails on it, thought the Taipan main and a Nacra 4.5 jib would be a bit more efficient. I've had a Hobie 16 jib on it also. We just cruise around and have some fun so not after 100% performance. 

The design is an off the shelf Scarab 16. They have a design with and without a cabin although only show the cabin version on the website. http://www.teamscarab.com.au/scarab16/design.html 

[Fat Point Jack 289]

Ya don't see these for sale very often.

https://orlando.craigslist.org/boa/d/lake-mary-tramp-folding-trimaran/7312493391.html

[Fat Point Jack 289]

Ya can't stop us human beings from thinking!

https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/col/boa/d/naples-custom-made-fiberglass-pontoons/7336546402.html

[kinardly 318]

No love for the Weta? Clearly the reticence is indicating not but, please forgive an uninformed lurker and tell me why?

[MultiThom 261]

3 hours ago, kinardly said:

No love for the Weta? Clearly the reticence is indicating not but, please forgive an uninformed lurker and tell me why?

Title of thread is "for aging boomers" (even though OP forgot the space).  Aging boomers tend not to want to have lots of water splashing them while sailing.  OP also wanted a free standing mast.  Nothing wrong with weta, nice little boat but not for your average 65+ year old guy/gal who is more interested in less spill and thrill but remains willing to assert mastery over wind and waves with the appropriate vehicle.

[Amati 1,851]

?  
 

(Bedard design)

(edit- and now she’s a folder, at least for the kit…)

(edit edit seems like a slider would work better for this 11’ beam- just slide em in to where the tramps are, unplug the mast and go. I like the sliders on the L7- smooth & easy sliding them in and out.  It’s the rest of the stuff that makes trailering fiddly.  That, and I really hate trampolines getting scrunched up when a tri is folded or swiveled).  
 

 

[dragontri 13]

Still foraging, Maitake are just starting to come in, and plenty of Agaricus to look forward too. But no ideal tri design for aging boomers yet and little interest from designers or boat builders. Guess it's gonna be another long fall and winter with plenty of mushrooms and COVID but no boomer sailing trimaran. Oh well, the 38 ft Kurt Hughes "BAYCRUISER" powertri that I am building is keeping me busy for now.

[MultiThom 261]

On 12/5/2020 at 12:21 PM, dragontri said:

Designing a daysailer for aging boomers

Personally, I want all the good things from daysailers like the Ensign, Alerion, small O’days etc. but without the hull speed limits, the tippy-ness and weight of a monohull. 

Corsair/Dragonfly/SeaRail/Astus

A trimaran in the 20 to 25 foot range, with a very simple rig that can be completely handled from the cockpit would do nicely. I won’t be looking for a performance-first boat, I’ve had plenty of that and I mostly want the joy of quiet and effortless sailing in semi-protected waters. That said, I don’t want a ‘dog’, so I’ll expect an excellent hull fineness ratio plus good Bruce and RPI numbers but still a safe craft. Of course, that points to lightweight and more expensive construction but I’ve found that using high tech composites selectively doesn’t affect total vessel price by more than a few percent. While my other half says to just buy a Corsair or Dragonfly, I think that there is a case to be made for a new design, as even those beautiful trimarans have way too many strings to pull and are trying too hard to be pocket cruisers/club racers, which also makes them much more expensive. There are several other small tri’s out there, but none have the simplicity nor the low enough price tag that I am looking for.

Corsair/Dragonfly/SeaRail/Astus except SeaRail is only 19 foot and Corsair/Dragonfly are heavy for their length

So here are my ‘specs’ or wish list.

- A flared main hull with high enough bow and topsides to avoid getting doused by small waves or boat wakes plus a deep and roomy cockpit with comfortable seating for 4 and no mid-way obstructing beams or travelers to try to get over. No cruising accommodation, just a minimal cuddy cabin or other arrangement for stowage of essentials.

SeaRail/Astus

- Swing or folding arms with firm tramps when deployed, with a handrail on the back beam to get easily on/off the craft- Full amas to enhance stability and flat sailing.

I don't think I have ever seen a handrail on the back beam so perhaps I don't know what you are asking for.

- An open transom would be nice, and swing-up rudder(s?) and centerboard are a must.

Corsair/Dragonfly/SeaRail/Astus

- An unstayed wing mast, preferably gimballed or otherwise easy to lower/dis-assemble, placed as far forward as feasible to create extra cockpit space and make the mainsail the primary driving force. An under-foredeck tabernacle would be ideal, and with a carbon wing mast the weight could be kept down sufficiently to make raising/lowering the mast safe and fast. I already made a mock-up of a tabernacle system that is handled by the primary winch and would weigh less than fifty pounds.

Nobody does this for many reasons previously discussed.

- A fully battened square top main on a mast track with cars, with a Dutchman or similar system for easy hoisting/lowering the sail. Plus a self-tacking roller furler jib, cut high enough not to impede visibility.

SeaRail but you have to fit the main with your own slugs---but the main hoist is 2:1 and it is a tiny thing easy enough for a 71 year old (me) to raise/lower even with boltrope.

- Boomless main sail to save the old noggins from an incidental and potentially disastrous whack, with a Heneman sheeting arrangement instead of a traveler.

SeaRail or F22--but you really should keep the traveler since it is critical to be able to depower the main with boomless.  Dropping the traveler just an inch depowers a lot, drop a foot and you can handle that 30 kt gust (experienced).  And, btw, that is Leneman.

 

The above is your original query.  No designer is going to check all your boxes since some of them aren't something an experienced sailor would want--even an old guy.

[eric1207 256]

Thom said:  I don't think I have ever seen a handrail on the back beam so perhaps I don't know what you are asking for.

Thom here is a pic of an F31 in Washington with hand rails on the amas.  Reportedly very comfortable to lean against as well as a great aid for moving between cockpit and nets.   I think they are removable, secured with two fastpins.   I'd like them on my boat but probably will never get around to it.

[MultiThom 261]

2 hours ago, eric1207 said:

Thom said:  I don't think I have ever seen a handrail on the back beam so perhaps I don't know what you are asking for.

Thom here is a pic of an F31 in Washington with hand rails on the amas.  Reportedly very comfortable to lean against as well as a great aid for moving between cockpit and nets.   I think they are removable, secured with two fastpins.   I'd like them on my boat but probably will never get around to it.

THanks, had I had that on my F242 I may not have fallen in over the back (fortunately not single handing that race).  

[cyclone 559]

On 9/5/2021 at 3:36 PM, dragontri said:

Still foraging

Here’s some video of the Constance Camber 23. The cockpit is relatively dry and the controls are all within reach. No freestanding mast.

 

[dragontri 13]

Thanks Cyclone, love it, it ticks almost all the boxes. I know I'll have to give in on the freestanding mast. Do you have more details on the plans, construction, etc? Are you located in Maine?

[dragontri 13]

Hasty reply, it's a Searunner design of course. I have a fun little story about Jim Brown: 

In 1995 my friend Jim Brown (Naval Architect) landed his trimaran at our dock in Stuart, FL to load up on last provisions before he was going to cruise around Cuba (and write a cruising guide about it).

 

I noticed the beautiful little dinghy he had on board, and he told me that it was a take-off on a Nathaniel Herreshoff design, and would I like to try it out, which I did. It rowed incredibly well ... next thing, I told him he had to stay for three days because I was going to splash a mold of his dinghy.

 

 

[cyclone 559]

1 hour ago, dragontri said:

Thanks Cyclone, love it, it ticks almost all the boxes. I know I'll have to give in on the freestanding mast. Do you have more details on the plans, construction, etc? Are you located in Maine?

Yes, I’m in Maine. The CC 23 is a John Marples design. One was built at the WoodenBoat School in the early 90’s as part of a class given by Jim Brown on composite construction. I think Russell was there as well. I inherited the panel mold in disrepair many years later. John Marples’ Searunner site is still up and running and offering plans. I believe John is in Maine as well. 

https://www.searunner.com/index.php/cc23-tri

[hobiedd97 8]

A Marples CC 23 is currently for sale in Maryland on sailboatlistings.com.

I don't know anything else about it - not my boat, and I don't know the owner.

[unShirley 256]

 

On 6/15/2021 at 4:25 PM, kinardly said:

No love for the Weta? Clearly the reticence is indicating not but, please forgive an uninformed lurker and tell me why?

On 6/15/2021 at 8:26 PM, MultiThom said:

Title of thread is "for aging boomers" (even though OP forgot the space).  Aging boomers tend not to want to have lots of water splashing them while sailing.  OP also wanted a free standing mast.  Nothing wrong with weta, nice little boat but not for your average 65+ year old guy/gal who is more interested in less spill and thrill but remains willing to assert mastery over wind and waves with the appropriate vehicle.

Hey, I am 65+ and love my Weta precisely because it is very thrilling, especially 3 sail sailing downwind in strong winds and big seas.  And, one gets the thrill without trapezing.  In fact, I find the Weta to be very comfortable and ergonomic for a small boat.  The most thrilling boats are gonna be wet.  But, I suspect there is no love for the Weta in this thread because it is strictly a single hander.  Weta performance suffers greatly if you load it up with people or any other source of extra weight.

[RedTuna 1,293]

On 9/23/2021 at 3:08 PM, unShirley said:

 

Hey, I am 65+ and love my Weta precisely because it is very thrilling, especially 3 sail sailing downwind in strong winds and big seas.  And, one gets the thrill without trapezing.  In fact, I find the Weta to be very comfortable and ergonomic for a small boat.  The most thrilling boats are gonna be wet.  But, I suspect there is no love for the Weta in this thread because it is strictly a single hander.  Weta performance suffers greatly if you load it up with people or any other source of extra weight.

The Weta is a gateway boat.  Yeah, yeah, comfy, fast and stable.  But I put my SO on it for a race and she whined about how slow we were compared to the single handers.  And I of course couldn't say we were slower because of her 105 pounds of extra weight.  So I bought a Sprint 750 and she loved it.  Chain reaction, though, hence the gateway boat.  I think every other Weta sailor within 100 miles of me ended up with a Corsair within a year or so.

 

[MultiThom 261]

38 minutes ago, RedTuna said:

The Weta is a gateway boat.  Yeah, yeah, comfy, fast and stable.  

 

Comfy?  I don't find it comfy to be firehosed with high pressure 50 degree water.  Exhilarating maybe, but not comfy.  But it points out the basic question...why do you sail?  It's been on my mind the past 3 months or so since I seem to have lost the "jones" for sailing.  Partly it is covid messing with my head, but mostly I think it is 71 and feeling less adventurous.  Too much of "been there, done that, got the t-shirt".  

[Amati 1,851]

On 3/29/2021 at 12:45 PM, mundt said:

Yes, you will get wet on a Weta but for its size it is really well done and can handle itself in a wide range of conditions. To me the drawback to the F-boats is their size and weight when out of the water.  Same thing for my L7, once sailing it's easy peezy but moving it around on land and at the dock by myself is a beatdown. How bout the Pulse?  I've heard it isn't super fast but it would seem to meet the parameters pretty well.  

Ran across this thread again whilst on the elliptical-  you could ditch the center hull & turn the L7 into a catamaran,  with a lighter (Hobie 21 was it?) mast- figure out a central spine to house the sliding beams & other stuff, folded it might get close enough to 8 feet beam, keep the mast step at the same level as the hulls?  With 14-16 beam, might be fun.  I’ll post a pic of the general idea-

[Tom Kirkman 59]

6 hours ago, RedTuna said:

The Weta is a gateway boat.  Yeah, yeah, comfy, fast and stable.  But I put my SO on it for a race and she whined about how slow we were compared to the single handers.  And I of course couldn't say we were slower because of her 105 pounds of extra weight.  So I bought a Sprint 750 and she loved it.  Chain reaction, though, hence the gateway boat.  I think every other Weta sailor within 100 miles of me ended up with a Corsair within a year or so.

 

I don't doubt it, but what I can't figure out is how anyone in the market for a boat could be that far off the mark to begin with. A Weta and a Sprint 750 aren't even remotely similar, other than having 3 hulls. How did someone that would be happier with a 750 even consider a Weta at the outset? Or did the Weta get them hooked and then moving on to a larger boat?

 

[unShirley 256]

RedTuna made a valid argument that the Weta is a "gateway boat."  True, but for me, an aging boomer, the gate has swung the opposite way.  I have done and continue to be an OPB racer on various bigger boats, both multihull and monohull.   But, I can't afford any of those boats.  Although the initial cost of the Weta is significantly more than a used beach cat, it is an easy, simple and affordable way to have some thrilling sailing on my own boat, whenever I want (and the weather cooperates, which, fortunately, around here, is often).  I keep mine assembled, near the ramp, so it is very easy to go for a sail spontaneously.  Yes, I am an OPB racer, but a Weta daysailer. And, a few times a year, I am actually able to race the Weta.

[mundt 324]

Amati, that's a pretty interesting idea.  There's a slightly busted up L7 for sale cheap right now.  Somebody with a little skill could make a nice cat outta it or just fix it and have a great tri.  I've sailed a few times on a Woods cat that uses the same mast and sails as the L7.  The hulls are much heavier than the L7 amas but the boat sails very well.  I think a 12ish foot beam would be fine for your proposed cat. 

[Amati 1,851]

18 minutes ago, mundt said:

Amati, that's a pretty interesting idea.  There's a slightly busted up L7 for sale cheap right now.  Somebody with a little skill could make a nice cat outta it or just fix it and have a great tri.  I've sailed a few times on a Woods cat that uses the same mast and sails as the L7.  The hulls are much heavier than the L7 amas but the boat sails very well.  I think a 12ish foot beam would be fine for your proposed cat. 

Would the mast section tolerate the increased compression of reduced beam?  

[Amati 1,851]

9 hours ago, MultiThom said:

Comfy?  I don't find it comfy to be firehosed with high pressure 50 degree water.  Exhilarating maybe, but not comfy.  But it points out the basic question...why do you sail?  It's been on my mind the past 3 months or so since I seem to have lost the "jones" for sailing.  Partly it is covid messing with my head, but mostly I think it is 71 and feeling less adventurous.  Too much of "been there, done that, got the t-shirt".  

I’m hitting the 7-oh next year, and wondering the same.  Gotta get the K1 out and see if the stoke is still there, but next spring- fucking construction at the house…. And maybe COVID not be hanging over us so much.  Wearing a mask working on the boat at the marina sucks…

[Vincent DePillis 13]

Gonna be 65 next month.  Sail anF31r in the Salish Sea.  Been thinking a lot about to NOT lose the love for for sailing.  How to adapt my boat and ambitions to my lesser strength and increased caution.

  It's gonna take a while in part because of the ingrained go-fast habits.  For instance, this summer I did a bit of a deep dive on installing a roller furling jib.  Ended up not pulling the trigger because I could not quite handle paying all that money and getting a much heavier set up with a whole lot less sail area.  So not I am working on optimizing a jib downhaul set up.  

[RedTuna 1,293]

On 9/25/2021 at 8:32 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

I don't doubt it, but what I can't figure out is how anyone in the market for a boat could be that far off the mark to begin with. A Weta and a Sprint 750 aren't even remotely similar, other than having 3 hulls. How did someone that would be happier with a 750 even consider a Weta at the outset? Or did the Weta get them hooked and then moving on to a larger boat?

 

I used the term as a joke.  Kinda.  I think pretty much everyone had owned multiple boats before.  It seemed to be a cascade or domino effect once people sailed a Sprint or Dash.  And I think SOs, potential SOs, and having children played some role.

[Bruno 137]

My boat came with a roller furler, the partially furled sail is ok for reaching, not much else.  It is a lot of weight high up, and windage, it is a hassle bringing the jib up and down, better now with lifelines and nets. I'd prefer a tradtional setup but it takes some money and time to convert. Piece by piece, first a good inner jib. A deck bag makes a lot of sense.

[MultiThom 261]

On 9/27/2021 at 10:24 AM, Vincent DePillis said:

  It's gonna take a while in part because of the ingrained go-fast habits.  For instance, this summer I did a bit of a deep dive on installing a roller furling jib.  Ended up not pulling the trigger because I could not quite handle paying all that money and getting a much heavier set up with a whole lot less sail area.  So not I am working on optimizing a jib downhaul set up.  

A 31 is a big boat with big sails.  As long as you have crew to do the hard stuff (like short tacking against a current), shouldn't have to worry about losing your sailing jones as you age some more.  Since i single hand mostly, I've always preferred a roller furling jib and now, I especially enjoy the ease of a self tacking jib.  As an aside, though, if you change the jib (move hounds up) to start at the screacher halyard exit, you might not sacrifice too much power switching to a roller furled self tacker.  

[kleppar 15]

I am having Mike Waters´ W17 built in Norway, with some matching criteria (except for free standing mast). It is fast, dry, light and comfortable. 

See information here:

https://smalltridesign.com/index.html

and on my website:

https://www.segling.info/w17-english

W17 for crusing: https://www.segling.info/w17-for-cruising

Trimaran sailing at comfort: https://www.segling.info/lopper-i-blodet

Here is a comparison of trimarans: https://www.segling.info/comparison

I wanted a beachable trimaran for short day trips, and quickly ruled out forward facing kayak types, as well as those with no cockpit, and just a platform or a trampoline. My W17 is the first with swing arm folding (not the standard on top folding).

 

[kleppar 15]

I am also having a cabin trimaran built in Poland - designed by Erik Lerouge (I trust the French with multihull design); see information here:

https://www.segling.info/libertist-703-english

It is designed as a fast cruiser, rotating carbon wing mast, daggerboard, small foils in floats, twin rudders, etc.

[MultiThom 261]

21 minutes ago, kleppar said:

 

Here is a comparison of trimarans: https://www.segling.info/comparison

I wanted a beachable trimaran for short day trips, and quickly ruled out forward facing kayak types, as well as those with no cockpit, and just a platform or a trampoline. My W17 is the first with swing arm folding (not the standard on top folding).

 

Nice comparison.  Missing a couple like the Sardines, but laudable to putting them altogether.  I'd also change the performance index to something more like Texel or AUS ratings.  L**0.3 times SA**(0.4) divided by Weight**(0.325)...not that either are actually very accurate in describing performance.  Good luck with the W17.  Hope the weight is beach do'able for you.  

[Geese 53]

http://dicknewickboats.com/spark/

 

https://www.oceannavigator.com/responsive-damfino-is-a-classic-newick-tri/

[MultiThom 261]

3 hours ago, Geese said:

http://dicknewickboats.com/spark/

 

https://www.oceannavigator.com/responsive-damfino-is-a-classic-newick-tri/

That satisfies the OP request for a self standing rig.  The addition of the Ljungstrom rig (double mainsails) would make it easy to go downwind sans spinnaker.  Not sure why the mizzen is needed, but it is cool looking with the wishboom.  Certainly would get folks to stare as you sail along with those Newick lines.  Personally (I'm an aging boomer), prefers a boat with a spinnaker since, "by golly", I spent years learning how to sail with one and don't want to admit I'm too old to play with it    

[Amati 1,851]

On 9/25/2021 at 7:41 PM, mundt said:

Amati, that's a pretty interesting idea.  There's a slightly busted up L7 for sale cheap right now.  Somebody with a little skill could make a nice cat outta it or just fix it and have a great tri.  I've sailed a few times on a Woods cat that uses the same mast and sails as the L7.  The hulls are much heavier than the L7 amas but the boat sails very well.  I think a 12ish foot beam would be fine for your proposed cat. 

How to tie/bolt/ the beams together, or have them slide in boxes.  Frankly, bolting the beams together is tempting, just to I don’t hear them clunking around.  I also wonder about the floatation of the outside hulls once the middle hull is gone.  Have you ever had your L7 up on one hull?  If so, how much did it depress?  I’d call up Mike and ask, but this is more a gedankenexperiment at this point.  On the other hand, he was the one who mentioned it…..

[oldsurfer 180]

[skirret 6]

Not a boomer but did allot of research and instead of just another Getaway on the bay I finalized down to 2 boats here in Hawaii that dont exist, Diam 24 and any of the Astus's.  Which in the case of single handling in good wind and the fact it can be broken down reasonably and budget it was the 16.5 that was chosen.  But man did the pandemic make me pay!!  Freight was insane not to mention Brandon's personal demuraging  fines at the port of LA. nearly doubled the entire cost to get it here and well its here and some day I'm gonna be a boomer with a boomin ass little bay sprayer!!

 

[Tom Kirkman 59]

If you take a very close look at your 16.5 and the Diam 24, you will find they are almost exactly the same boat. The 16.5 has a small cuddy and about 6 to 7 feet cut out of the hull mid-sections. Otherwise, they are almost the same boat.

https://imgur.com/qbVHL23

[The great unwashed 383]

On 12/17/2021 at 4:05 PM, skirret said:

Not a boomer but did allot of research and instead of just another Getaway on the bay I finalized down to 2 boats here in Hawaii that dont exist, Diam 24 and any of the Astus's.  Which in the case of single handling in good wind and the fact it can be broken down reasonably and budget it was the 16.5 that was chosen.  But man did the pandemic make me pay!!  Freight was insane not to mention Brandon's personal demuraging  fines at the port of LA. nearly doubled the entire cost to get it here and well its here and some day I'm gonna be a boomer with a boomin ass little bay sprayer!!

 

Damn, that looks like a fun boat for K-Bay!

[Tom Kirkman 59]

When you start sailing it, be advised that it's not going to run like old fashioned trimarans. This is a modern VPLP design. The ama bows will want to get down deep into the water and that's perfectly fine. Let them go. The sharp rocker on the main hull will still keep the main hull clear of the water other than maybe 2 or 3 feet in the area where the centerboard is. Watch some Diam 24 and Astus 16.5 videos to get the idea. This is a modern trimaran and will run bow low and stern high, which is exactly how it is designed to run.

[skirret 6]

1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

When you start sailing it, be advised that it's not going to run like old fashioned trimarans. This is a modern VPLP design. The ama bows will want to get down deep into the water and that's perfectly fine. Let them go. The sharp rocker on the main hull will still keep the main hull clear of the water other than maybe 2 or 3 feet in the area where the centerboard is. Watch some Diam 24 and Astus 16.5 videos to get the idea. This is a modern trimaran and will run bow low and stern high, which is exactly how it is designed to run.

Been watching and rewatching all these vids including yours for more than a year.. Getting her use to the Hawaiian waters slowly(this place sinks modern designs), I been pointing up in big puffs when she starts to raise and ama submerges (which is painful to kill the puff) but keeping it safe for a while.. 15knots of wind we did an easy 15.7 knots speed on the garmin without the gen deployed.. Im replicating your tiller setup right now but wondering about..

positives or negative of single line shrouds(currently setup) compared to the 2 adjustable lower (cap) shrouds thats part of the builders rigging setup.

mast raising are you stepping or built some kinda winch system?

the weight is similar to hobie 21, any tips on single hand launching on beach cart or better to just use the trailer? 

Watching that center haul move is some of the best boat porn I've ever seen!!

 

 

[Tom Kirkman 59]

The original boats came with single side shrouds. They later transitioned to the side bridle system. I found the latter to hinder my ability to get out on the rail as far as I wanted and since the single shroud set-up provides an equally stiff platform with no disadvantages that I'm aware of, I have stuck with it. 

I use a wishbone to raise the mast. Takes all of 5 minutes as long as you keep all the stays and shrouds attached when the mast is down. I can send you some photos if you'd like.

I ditched the dolly. Too much boat for a dolly. Just launch it straight off the trailer. This will entail that you reconfigure your trailer for the boat instead of the dolly. But you only have to do that once.

The ama bows are designed to run down with the sterns high. It's magic. But the straight beams will slow you down if you put them in the water. That's the only downside to the straight sliding beam system, but it does make rigging quick.

[Adventure Trimarans 18]

Tom,

I'd be interested in seeing your wishbone setup if you have any pics?

My Adventure 600 has been vandalised yet again (this time destroyed the furling jib by releasing just as storm Arwen cam in) and is not going to be sailed until at least March now while I fix things up and one thing I want to improve is the mast raising system.

I'm currently using fairly short stays that clip onto the float pivot points and have the side stays connected but the height is not really sufficient to give enough confidence in the lateral stability especially if there is any wind.

I'm thinking something like this:

at around 11:50 would be great, just need to find a strong clip that can be remotely released and clipped back on for lowering.

I'm also thinking about adding a secondary set of stays that will triangulate the mast to the rear beam pivot while folded and then the main side stays can be used for additional lateral stability by attaching them into ground anchors.

Currently with single stays I need to release them one at a time using the main sheet to triangulate it while moving the stay, then move the main sheet and repeats which adds about 5 minutes to the set up / take down time.

[skirret 6]

3 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

The original boats came with single side shrouds. They later transitioned to the side bridle system. I found the latter to hinder my ability to get out on the rail as far as I wanted and since the single shroud set-up provides an equally stiff platform with no disadvantages that I'm aware of, I have stuck with it. 

I use a wishbone to raise the mast. Takes all of 5 minutes as long as you keep all the stays and shrouds attached when the mast is down. I can send you some photos if you'd like.

I ditched the dolly. Too much boat for a dolly. Just launch it straight off the trailer. This will entail that you reconfigure your trailer for the boat instead of the dolly. But you only have to do that once.

The ama bows are designed to run down with the sterns high. It's magic. But the straight beams will slow you down if you put them in the water. That's the only downside to the straight sliding beam system, but it does make rigging quick.

Yes please share your mast raising setup Mahalo. Its nice that it has a beefy mast compared to a hobie of same size but the mast ball and mast base dont click/lock in so hand lifting and lowering the last 20deg or so there some kick back where you need a second person to literally catch the mast!! Also, havent tied in those 2nd set of shrouds on the center hull, do I even need them if I'm setting up the boat ama's out/lifting mast every time?

I bought some 10in caster wheels and was going to make a front wheel helper for the beach dolly but now that you reconfirm the beach trolly is rubbish I think this is the way with this trailer helper from amazon 70$ 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008CE0TN4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

 

[MultiThom 261]

5 hours ago, Adventure Trimarans said:

 

around 11:50 would be great, just need to find a strong clip that can be remotely releasd and clipped back on for lowering.

I'm also thinking about adding a secondary set of stays that will triangulate the mast to the rear beam pivot while folded and then the main side stays can be used for additional lateral stability by attaching them into ground anchors.

Currently with single stays I need to release them one at a time using the main sheet to triangulate it while moving the stay, then move the main sheet and repeats which adds about 5 minutes to the set up / take down time.

If you are going to do this often, that would be a lot of fuss each time (for me).  But if only raise the mast once or twice a season...Here's an article about the basics of mast raising.

Basics of Mast Raising

As it says, only need "something" to provide leverage (e.g., gyn pole).  "Something to keep the mast along the centerline (keep it from rotating side to side) as you bring it up.  Something to keep the leverage pole along the centerline (usually some temp shrouds).  

Also, you should only have to triangulate once and then mark the positions on the shrouds. 

[Tom Kirkman 59]

2 hours ago, skirret said:

Yes please share your mast raising setup Mahalo. Its nice that it has a beefy mast compared to a hobie of same size but the mast ball and mast base dont click/lock in so hand lifting and lowering the last 20deg or so there some kick back where you need a second person to literally catch the mast!! Also, havent tied in those 2nd set of shrouds on the center hull, do I even need them if I'm setting up the boat ama's out/lifting mast every time?

I bought some 10in caster wheels and was going to make a front wheel helper for the beach dolly but now that you reconfirm the beach trolly is rubbish I think this is the way with this trailer helper from amazon 70$ 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008CE0TN4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

 

Pick up a collapsible speaker stand on Amazon or wherever. Set the mast on it and raise it up to 7 or 8 feet high. That way you're starting from above level and pressure stays on the mast ball during the entire process, up or down.

I doubt you can move the Astus on the trailer with that helper from Amazon. Back it in with your vehicle. There is a point beyond where a boat can be manhandled on a dolly or trailer.

[MultiThom 261]

One trimaran that the OP might like since it has free standing masts is the trimaran version of the SeaPearl 21.  There's one for sale in N. CA on craigslist.  https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/d/redding-trimaran-sea-pearl-21/7426641576.html

Video

 

[dragontri 13]

Thanks MultiThom! You're right that it is very attractive. And there are a lot of features I like. Being on the wrong side of the continent is a bit of a problem though! 

 

[randii 143]

On 12/20/2021 at 2:25 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

Pick up a collapsible speaker stand on Amazon or wherever. Set the mast on it and raise it up to 7 or 8 feet high. That way you're starting from above level and pressure stays on the mast ball during the entire process, up or down.

H18 and F18 experience: a helper on a 6 foot ladder makes raising simple. I do it solo regularly with a carpet-topped 10 foot ladder. With the ladder just forward of the balance point of the mast, it is easy to pin the ball/socket and that initial angle gets you past the hardest part of pivoting the mast, especially if the boat is on a trailer.

The speaker stand sounds good, but a ladder is a handy thing to have on the trailer.

[MultiThom 261]

47 minutes ago, randii said:

H18 and F18 experience: a helper on a 6 foot ladder makes raising simple. I do it solo regularly with a carpet-topped 10 foot ladder. With the ladder just forward of the balance point of the mast, it is easy to pin the ball/socket and that initial angle gets you past the hardest part of pivoting the mast, especially if the boat is on a trailer.

The speaker stand sounds good, but a ladder is a handy thing to have on the trailer.

Certainly you could go with external supports, but the solution I chose was to alter the trailer and add a removeable rear mast support.  Yah, you do have to remove the rear support prior to launch but that's no harder than finding somewhere to put your speaker stand or ladder.  Did that for a hobie catamaran trailer.  Trailer guy just welded a big U of steel cage tube at the stern and put a tube stand for the pinnable support.  Also helped  the mast stay flat during transport.  Was worth the 300 bucks.

[Fat Point Jack 289]

Here's another one.

20' Carbon Fiber Trimaran kayak with sail kit and custom trailer! - $6,500 (St. Petersburg)

‹image 1 of 3›

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

© craigslist - Map data © OpenStreetMap

length overall (LOA): 20
propulsion type: sail

Perfect for the Everglades Challenge! Full carbon fiber hulls, the entire boat, fully rigged, weighs about 170 lbs and can easily be picked up by two people. Comes with fully battened main sail, roller furling jib, roller furling screecher (spinnaker), trampolines, skirts and covers, AND A CUSTOM TRAILER! My friend and I bought this a year ago with the intention of doing the Everglades Challenge but life got in the way, our loss is your gain. The boat is in great shape and ready to take you on any adventure you can throw at it.

https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/d/saint-petersburg-20-carbon-fiber/7432267008.html

 

[sail(plane) 123]

On 1/15/2022 at 8:42 AM, Fat Point Jack said:

Here's another one.

20' Carbon Fiber Trimaran kayak with sail kit and custom trailer! - $6,500 (St. Petersburg)

‹image 1 of 3›

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

© craigslist - Map data © OpenStreetMap

length overall (LOA): 20
propulsion type: sail

Perfect for the Everglades Challenge! Full carbon fiber hulls, the entire boat, fully rigged, weighs about 170 lbs and can easily be picked up by two people. Comes with fully battened main sail, roller furling jib, roller furling screecher (spinnaker), trampolines, skirts and covers, AND A CUSTOM TRAILER! My friend and I bought this a year ago with the intention of doing the Everglades Challenge but life got in the way, our loss is your gain. The boat is in great shape and ready to take you on any adventure you can throw at it.

https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/d/saint-petersburg-20-carbon-fiber/7432267008.html

 

Oh that looks so good! If I was close I think I would buy it and then figure out what to do with it

[MultiThom 261]

2 hours ago, sail(plane) said:

Oh that looks so good! If I was close I think I would buy it and then figure out what to do with it

Mee too!

[Fat Point Jack 289]

I'm close enough, but SWMBO would kick my ass.

[MultiThom 261]

1 hour ago, Fat Point Jack said:

I'm close enough, but SWMBO would kick my ass.

When I first bought my first boat (55K F242), I went for, "it is better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission."  Still married to her now for 41 years...

[Fat Point Jack 289]

I've got 35 years in, I know my limits.

She told me a few years later that she decided to marry me when we were putting up the Hobie mast and she dropped the pin and I did not yell.

[Amati 1,851]

On 9/27/2021 at 10:24 AM, Vincent DePillis said:

Gonna be 65 next month.  Sail anF31r in the Salish Sea.  Been thinking a lot about to NOT lose the love for for sailing.  How to adapt my boat and ambitions to my lesser strength and increased caution.

  It's gonna take a while in part because of the ingrained go-fast habits.  For instance, this summer I did a bit of a deep dive on installing a roller furling jib.  Ended up not pulling the trigger because I could not quite handle paying all that money and getting a much heavier set up with a whole lot less sail area.  So not I am working on optimizing a jib downhaul set up.  

A cruise-ish version of a Marstrom / A class ish thing begins to appeal- a drifter for the light (when it’s easy to handle), then one sail.  Comfy seats, hard decks, mast step at deck level so stepping is easy, hulls big enough for a port a potty, fold down central Bimini for a place to crawl into and take a nap.  Sleek enough to appeal. This apparent idea that older guys need clunky boats is offensive. I think most foraging boomers are looking for a satisfying, responsive boat without the pucker factor.  
 

Back to frankenboating.

[Amati 1,851]

On 12/17/2021 at 6:05 PM, skirret said:

Not a boomer but did allot of research and instead of just another Getaway on the bay I finalized down to 2 boats here in Hawaii that dont exist, Diam 24 and any of the Astus's.  Which in the case of single handling in good wind and the fact it can be broken down reasonably and budget it was the 16.5 that was chosen.  But man did the pandemic make me pay!!  Freight was insane not to mention Brandon's personal demuraging  fines at the port of LA. nearly doubled the entire cost to get it here and well its here and some day I'm gonna be a boomer with a boomin ass little bay sprayer!!

 

It was a problem before SARS 2.   Unless you can piggyback with other boats, the co$ts add up, especially with new boats.  I couldn’t piggyback, and the cost went up for an English dinghy. IIRR, the boat before fees and shipping was somewhere around 10-11K, pickup price was 17+K, RORO.  An argument for made locally, you’d think, but perhaps not.  Or maybe designing to the tech in your area.  Wasn’t there a movement towards dinghy design digitally exported to CNC cut out kits locally, even dedicated fabrication of said kits locally, so shipping (or much shipping) wouldn’t be necessary?  I suppose it limits materials, but (and I’m going to regret posting this), but sophisticated wood tech would be at least green, & getting over the religion of centralized manufacture might be a good idea in an ongoing COVID world.  Look at Julian’s 89er project & the number of people involved, for example.

edit- it’s not new, in a general way. Steinway, before WW2 had multiple builders around the world.

[Amati 1,851]

On 1/16/2022 at 5:18 AM, sail(plane) said:

Oh that looks so good! If I was close I think I would buy it and then figure out what to do with it

Once you have more than one, they are like rabbits.

[dragontri 13]

Still on my quest for the freestanding mast, and just when I was about to give up on it, here's an article by Rob Mazza with references to Eric Sponberg, two of my contemporaries and IBEX colleagues, and recognized naval architects. Enjoy the read! https://goodoldboat.com/freestanding-rigs/?fbclid=IwAR0CzPVq4jcUgeSGYrCkhH2j_X3bOHJi_V0EuoRsavBwp_hGig1SISqdFVw

[Windartist 0]

Just happened upon this thread because I’m facing a similar dilemma and was doing a search for a psychologist specializing in sailboat optimization for aging boomers. The only sailboat I’ve had is a Windrider 17 and I’ve really enjoyed it for the past ten years. I’m not a pro, just like to get out with my wife and sail around on the Indian and St Lucie Rivers in Florida for 2-3 hours on a nice day, have lunch sail slowly by the shore and look at the houses and go fast when the conditions are right. BUT, I have voices that tell me that I should get a little bigger boat and sail a little further and look good doing it. I’m just about to get an F24 but I really like steering with my feet and having all the ropes right there and handy. My wife isn’t much help. This seems silly as I’m happy with the Windrider but I feel that I should try something new. This thread hasn’t helped silence the voices in my head however a new, sleek 22’ Windrider might fit the bill.

[craigiri 138]

I am amazed that there aren't more threads here on the newer cats that are super-lightweight (read that - blow up!) - it seems like they have come a LONG way, and some are claimed to be the "baby boomers" answer.

Maybe someone - who knows these (is the Red Beard Guy here?) can start a thread on them.

On the same basic subject, it would be great to have a top level thread either in Dinghy or in the main sailing forum on all boats with are either < 100 lbs (hull) or in pieces that allow easy assembly in a few minutes.

Some of these boats look mighty nice....definitely have improved.

https://redbeardsailing.com

Some instantly convert to rowing or small electric motors for a "deck" boat type of ride for a couple (or three) adults and/or the kids. 

In the monohulls I know of Rocket, Aero, Minifish...all well less than 100 lbs. Reverso...Air is a racing type Dinghy in sections.

For the aging sailor - also, for the "don't want hassle" sailor, these would seem to be important metrics. 

Although they are not sold here in any numbers, the French 20 foot tricat really does look like the answer (on mooring, on beach or mast-up) to some of the Baby Boomers wants. 

Yet there is only one years-old mention of these on MA. 
I'm not gonna start the threads since I know nothing - but someone should!

https://www.trimaran-tricat.com/en/le-tricat-20/

[MultiThom 261]

Don't think those inflatables meet any needs for aging boomers.  Lets list the design criteria for an older person...

1.  Have money, but won't waste it on expensive toys.

2.  Not as much strength as used to have, but still have skills for wind and wave.  Boomers who haven't sailed before are not likely to want a boat now.

3.  Like our comforts, so a wet boat is not of interest.

4.  Don't want crew since we have all sorts of time while crew probably still has to work for a living.

5.  Since this is multihull anarchy, probably want to sail reasonably fast.  Unlikely to brave above 20 kts nor have interest in sailing in less than 8 kts of wind.  

6.  You do have to get back to where you started, so has to be able to sail to weather reasonably well.

For me, SeaRail 19 fit the bill.  As an added bonus for the SeaRail, it has self tacking jib (see #2 above) and no boom (so no head thumping).  I suspect a Pulse, Astus, Sardine, W17, SeaPearl yadda yadda other small trimaran would be just as nice.  I omit Weta (see #3), WIndrider (see #6), F22 (See #1), Libertist (see #1).