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Quirky and personal design constraints.


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So, were I to ever. have a sailing cruiser in the UK, the waterline to mast clearance must be less than 13.5 meters. Why?  Because the clearance under the Connell Bridge at the entrance to Loch Etive is 14 meters, and any boat I own has to be able to get into Loch Etive.

332039182-connel-bridge-loch-etive-scott

 

Loch-Etive-ZigZagOnEarth.jpg

 

You got anything weird like that?

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The Connel Bridge is an odd one, built for single railway only, it carried cars over on flat trucks, later they added a road surface to the deck, so cars could use it when trains weren't running. Then when the railway closed in the 1960s it became a road only bridge, but with traffic lights for single way working.

Down here in Norfolk a true Broads sailing cruiser is built with a tabernacle to go under Bridges of 6ft 6 inches and a draft of 3ft6 inches due to the shallowness of many Broads. This is pretty impressive on a 40ft hull, with a 50ft mast plus jackyard tops'l, and six berths.

My own self designed mini open keelboat was designed for 3ft draft , and a tabernacle for the same reasons as above.

 

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8 hours ago, Alan H said:

So, were I to ever. have a sailing cruiser in the UK, the waterline to mast clearance must be less than 13.5 meters. Why?  Because the clearance under the Connell Bridge at the entrance to Loch Etive is 14 meters, and any boat I own has to be able to get into Loch Etive.

332039182-connel-bridge-loch-etive-scott

 

Loch-Etive-ZigZagOnEarth.jpg

 

You got anything weird like that?

Long ago, I read about a guy who bought a 20' Flica sloop and rerigged it as a catboat because the shorter mast allowed him to get under a bridge at the mouth of the creek in which he wanted to moor. Somewhere in the Chesapeake,  IIRC.

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Ran into a boat designer from the east coast (USA) when I was sailing in Canada. He was building a keel boat and faced a similar bridge clearance issue, but resorted to a sliding gunter rig for the main mast. As I recall his boat was sizable (maybe the 30-40 foot size range) [which is a sizable boat for me, but maybe not for others].

Snubs

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I've got a similar issue with my Centaur; height restrictions in either direction of the Erie Canal, preventing me from raising the mast. Westbound? May as well not raise it 'til I get to Oswego or Buffalo (I knew I should've taken that left turn at Albuquerque). Got 20 miles of motoring east & south before I pass under the last bridge there.  14 meters would be alright for the Centaur; I'm looking at 20 foot restrictions instead.

Leaning towards Klacko Spars method of raising/lowering the mast: two A-frames anchored on the foredeck, one acting as a gin pole and the other supporting the mast via a sliding cart on the spinnaker track. Gin pole frame might be replaced with a "tee'd" pole that fit into the first bolt hole on the step. 

I won't consider any method that doesn't support the mast laterally; There's too many inconsiderate powerboaters who think "no wake zones" means slowing down and trimming their stern deep. Wind on the river tends to be gusty, too... and if there's no wind, why am I putting the sails up?

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Going back to the original bridge, here is a fantastic model of the bridge in 4mm to the foot scale.

Connel Ferry Railway/road bridge 4mm scale - Page 2 - Layout topics - RMweb

Sadly the gentleman who built this died in August, and the three model railway layouts he built including the one this model bridge was built for, are now up for sale (as of today)..

Follow the links at the end of his thread to see his wonderful modelling and the layouts..

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Oh, I was figuring on...I dunno. Examples...

Ishmael, for example...pretend he won't have a boat that doesn't have an iron wood stove in it, because his grandpappy used to make cast iron wood stoves.

Or Bull won't have a boat that doesn't have a wood mast, because that cedar tree that was in the front yard when he was a kid got bark beetles in 2019, and he took it out last year and damnit, he's gonna use it for a mast, 'cause that tree has been a part of his life since forever....

I'm just makin' 'em up here.  It's not just about draft and mast height.

the pic of the gaffer with the aluminum spar, squeezing under that bridge is pretty wild!!

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What are the disadvantages of gaff rigs?  Seems like the geometry is largely the same as a fractional sloop, for the simple ones.  The broads boats (which fascinate me) are complicated not only by bridges but by a desire to get much of the sail area up high where the wind isn't blocked by the banks.

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Gaffs can't point as well. Probably higher CG of the rig too. Since racing boats are usually on the cutting edge of design, the cruising fleet follows the fashion when something new comes along.  i.e. conversion from gaffs to Bermuda rigs

If you're sailing a Windward/Leeward race, you spent 2/3 of the time beating and 1/3 running. Guess which ability (downwind or upwind) is more important to winning races? Well except for boats that can truly plane.

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39 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Gaffs can't point as well. Probably higher CG of the rig too. Since racing boats are usually on the cutting edge of design, the cruising fleet follows the fashion when something new comes along.  i.e. conversion from gaffs to Bermuda rigs

If you're sailing a Windward/Leeward race, you spent 2/3 of the time beating and 1/3 running. Guess which ability (downwind or upwind) is more important to winning races? Well except for boats that can truly plane.

Yeah but if you're not racing - there are advantages in the lower rig for same sail area.

I looked at building one and agreed, the pointing ability isn't as good. But as I wanted something I could build including making the sails, I wasn't going to be going to a high stress towering rig anyway.

So I built a junk schooner rig. Talking about quirky & personal design decisions.

Still quite happy with that choice too. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

FKT

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52 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Gaffs can't point as well. Probably higher CG of the rig too. Since racing boats are usually on the cutting edge of design, the cruising fleet follows the fashion when something new comes along.  i.e. conversion from gaffs to Bermuda rigs

If you're sailing a Windward/Leeward race, you spent 2/3 of the time beating and 1/3 running. Guess which ability (downwind or upwind) is more important to winning races? Well except for boats that can truly plane.

Yeah, but.... done in today’s materials and today’s designs,  mebbe not that much worse...

https://biekerboats.com/project/pt-dinghy/

 

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Strong STRONG centerline bow anchor roller with nothing that will impede deployment/swinging.  If a bob-stay is present (preferably not), It must be easily triced up and out of the way of the rode.  Rode/anchor must be captured in the roller by something STRONG (like the bulwarks) that will prevent the Rode/anchor from ever "jumping" out of the roller.  There must be something STRONG on the foredeck to belay the rode.

Quirky? Maybe not.

Fanatical? Definitely.

Steve

 

 

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Reefing gaff rigs and gunter rigs, when they get big, is a lot harder than a Bermudan main.  That said, the low-tech, low tension, low-load factor of a 20-24 foot moderate displacement gaff or gunter rig would be pretty appealing.

Romily, nothwithstanding, I would expect the same to hold for a balanced lug.

 

I've been offered a free Vivacity 20 a couple of times. It's just the hull...no rig, no rudder.  Vivacity 20's are singularly undistinguished boats and slow as hell, but they ARE stout, and  you can dry them out on the beach.   I can get a simple 18-foot aluminum pole at the local metal shop for about $100. Some swaged s.s. wire rope for a triangular forestay and back-stays, galvanized turnbuckles.... doug fir boom and about a 5 foot doug fir yard and there's a rig.  It won't win  any races or any beauty contests, but you'd have a "wee shite boat" for cheap and you can have an awful lot of fun in a "wee shite boat".

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14 minutes ago, Alan H said:

Reefing gaff rigs and gunter rigs, when they get big, is a lot harder than a Bermudan main.  That said, the low-tech, low tension, low-load factor of a 20-24 foot moderate displacement gaff or gunter rig would be pretty appealing.

I've precious little experience with Bermuda rigs, but is there not a need to point up-wind when reefing (because the slugs bind when pulled from the side)?

Gaff sails with luff hoops/lacing come down with little binding on the mast - no matter the point of sail.    

My main is 480 square feet.  I reef single handed all the time.  There are no sailing winches on the boat.  Seems way easier than the reefing the main on the J-120 (a smaller sail) on which I was crew.

Serious question: What am I missing?

Steve

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32 minutes ago, Panope said:

I've precious little experience with Bermuda rigs, but is there not a need to point up-wind when reefing (because the slugs bind when pulled from the side)?

Gaff sails with luff hoops/lacing come down with little binding on the mast - no matter the point of sail.    

My main is 480 square feet.  I reef single handed all the time.  There are no sailing winches on the boat.  Seems way easier than the reefing the main on the J-120 (a smaller sail) on which I was crew.

Serious question: What am I missing?

Steve

You're missing the yard swinging around.  It's easy to forget about it if you've never sailed a boat with a yard on the mainsail.

Now, think about reefing.  On a Bermudan main you just pull it down to the cringle, hook it and tighten the halyard to get the luff tight. Easy!

Now, think about a gaff cutter.  There are a couple of lines that tension the yard, that go to the top of the mast. Well. ONE line goes to the top of the mast, and it pulls on another line that leads to both ends of the yard.  This is usually called the peak halyard, as most of what it does is pull the yard IN.   At the inboard end of a gaff mainsails is the throat halyard, which pulls the bottom of the gaff UP.     So right off the bat, it's more complicated than a bermudan sail, because you have TWO halyards.  Unless of course, it's rigged different, because some gaffs are rigged with a variantion of this stuff.  Very often the peak halyard has  a multiple purchase to it. If the boat is big-ish, it will  pretty surely have a purchase system in it..


Now, pull the mainsail down to reef it. The angle that the peak halyard line pulls at, just changed wildly.  It can be a beeeetch to get that system to properly tension the yard. You can DO IT of course....but it's tricksy.  The throat halyard is usually no problem. That's usually set up first, then you adjust and tension the peak halyard.   Complicated! That's one reason why a lot of old-time gaff rigged boats actually have "more sails".  Topsails, genoas, yankeees not to mention a mizzen if the boat was big enough.    Instead of reefing, you just took down sails.  The first sail you strike is usually the topsail, the one that fits above the mainsail.

And if you're racing, there are flying sails that fit in between the masts of a split rig, too.

On a sliding gunter, where the yard is essentially straight up and down behind the mast , you have a similar problem. once you've pulled the sail down, the line that holds the yard tight up against the mast is now NOT pulling the yard IN...it's pulling it UP.  There's very little force holding the yard to the mast and it will swing off to leeward.   In fact, to properly reef a sliding gunter, you have to drop the whole main....re-rig the yard-tensioning line to the very top of the yard, and rehoist.  What THAT means is that your deepest first reef is limited by the size of the yard.

If you're going for a really deep reef, you have to remove the yard altogether, and just hoist a super-dinky Bermudan main.

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This is why, of all the rigs with upper yards, the balanced lug, or variations on it, is  probably the handiest. However, the gaff and gunter yards are pretty solidly attached to the mast at the forward end. On a balanced lug, the attachment is usually rather "loosey goosey". It might be a line with wooden balls to cut friction, or it could be a setup with a bronze mast ring and a hook.  In any case, the attachment, when it's not tensioned, is "looser", which can make things interesting when you're hoisting.

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14 minutes ago, Alan H said:

You're missing the yard swinging around.  It's easy to forget about it if you've never sailed a boat with a yard on the mainsail.

My boat has a GAFF main.  During reefing, the "swinging around" is a non issue.  It just swings around.  In a sense, you are right, it IS easy to forget about!

Now, think about reefing.  On a Bermudan main you just pull it down to the cringle, hook it and tighten the halyard to get the luff tight. Easy!

On the J120 on which I crewed, reefing the main (a smaller sail than mine) was much more difficult (than my GAFF main).  It had friction in the sail slides unless we pointed into the wind.  

Now, think about a gaff cutter.  There are a couple of lines that tension the yard, that go to the top of the mast. Well. ONE line goes to the top of the mast, and it pulls on another line that leads to both ends of the yard.  Unless of course, it's rigged different, with a multiple purchase to it. If the boat is big-ish, it will have a purchase..
Now, pull the mainsail down to reef it. The angle that the yard-tensioning line pulls at, just changed wildly.  It can be a beeeetch to get that system to properly tension the yard. You can DO IT of course....but it's tricksy.  That's one reason why a lot of old-time gaff rigged boats actually have "more sails". Instead of reefing, you just took down sails. 

What you described sounds like a very poorly rigged peak halyard.  My peak halyard (and all other gaffers I have sailed) is tensioned without trouble at any hoist height.  


On a sliding gunter, where the yard is essentially straight up and down behind the mast , you have a similar problem. once you've pulled the sail down, the line that holds the yard tight up against the mast is now NOT pulling the yard IN...it's pulling it UP.  There's very little force holding the yard to the mast and it will swing off to leeward.   In fact, to properly reef a sliding gunter, you have to drop the whole main....re-rig the yard-tensioning line to the very top of the yard, and rehoist.  What THAT means is that your deepest first reef is limited by the size of the yard.

I have zero knowledge or comments about gunter rigs.

If you're going for a really deep reef, you have to remove the yard altogether, and just hoist a super-dinky Bermudan main.

On this point (and only this point), I agree.  I call my "super-dinky Bermudan main" a trysail.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Alan H said:

 

On a sliding gunter, where the yard is essentially straight up and down behind the mast , you have a similar problem. once you've pulled the sail down, the line that holds the yard tight up against the mast is now NOT pulling the yard IN...it's pulling it UP.  There's very little force holding the yard to the mast and it will swing off to leeward.   In fact, to properly reef a sliding gunter, you have to drop the whole main....re-rig the yard-tensioning line to the very top of the yard, and rehoist.  What THAT means is that your deepest first reef is limited by the size of the yard.

 

On the majority of Gunter's I've worked with there is a rope or more often wire with parrel beads that is attached to the yard at the highest point of the yard below the stay attachments. As you lower the Gunter it tightens the yard to the mast as the mast gets fatter..

Alternatively, a loop of rope from the yard going round the mast to a block on the yard, then to the deck to tension the Gunter yard to the mast. This was on yards too long to reach the attachment points from somewhere on deck.

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Not sure if these are quirky, but certainly pragmatic: In the Netherlands flat bottom boats (platbodems) with sideboards instead of keels were build to navigate shallow waters for fishing and transportation purposes. Rumor also has it that 12 meters was ideal for the typical waves at the Zuiderzee (which is today the Ijsselmeer).  

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42 minutes ago, Panope said:

 

OK, so now I'm feeling stupid, 'cause when I read your post SOME-how I didn't grok that you OWN a gaff rigged boat. That makes you ten times better informed than me, as I've just crewed on a buddy's 32 footer, maybe a dozen times.

 

I'm trying to remember the sequence of events when reefing the main.....this is what I think I remember.

 

1. ease the mainsheet, head up into the wind.
2. ease the peak halyard, rather a lot.

3. ease the throat halyard, to the mark on the halyard. cleat.

4. attach the reefing hook to the eye in the main

5. tension the throat halyard.

6. haul in on the main clew until the foot was tight...tie up the cringles.

7. drop the. *thingamawhangy".."peak halyard snubber"???  I forget, but it was a line with a block on it that would pull the sheeting point of the peak halyard down the mast...cleat it off.  Normally it rode up at the top of the mast and didn't do much of anything.

8. Tension the peak halyard.

9. sheet in the main and off you go.

 

It was totally do-able by one guy, though faster with two. It took practice, though, and pretty sure it was slower than putting reef in a bermudan main in the 30-32 footers I've raced on, on the Bay.  But not THAT slow.

 

All things accounted for, I would, personally consider a gaff rig on a smallish cruising boat for myself as an entirely viable option.

 

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1 hour ago, The Q said:

On the majority of Gunter's I've worked with there is a rope or more often wire with parrel beads that is attached to the yard at the highest point of the yard below the stay attachments. As you lower the Gunter it tightens the yard to the mast as the mast gets fatter..

Alternatively, a loop of rope from the yard going round the mast to a block on the yard, then to the deck to tension the Gunter yard to the mast. This was on yards too long to reach the attachment points from somewhere on deck.

I'd love to see an illustration of these...

 

Here are pictures of the two gunter dinghies that I'm familiar with. This one, which I've only seen once, belongs to a friend on the WBF. It's normally rigged as a gunter. He's deep reefed, and as you can see, the yard is completely removed.  The image is HUGE so I won't post it here, but here's the link.

 

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4039/4425891502_cace43231e_o.jpg

 

The other boat is a copy of a British cruising dinghy, as outlined here. http://www.hostellerssailingclub.org.uk/index.php/articles/building-a-dinghy-for-cruising

The person who owns the boat here, essentially built a copy of that cruising dinghy. Here's a photo of the original gunter setup for the British boat, which my friend adopted.

 

grey_boat_rig.jpg

To reef, what they do is lower the yard all the way down into the boat by easing the halyard. The halyard, which normally leads to a point in the middle of the yard, is then woven into a double-offset-hook fitting which is at the head of the yard. Then the sail is re-hoisted and the reefing cringle on the luff is tightened. Then the slack is taken up on the clew and a couple of small tied-in cringles are tied on, mostly just to keep the sail out of everyones face.

 

Are you referring to something like this?

sliding-gunter.jpg?w=640

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54 minutes ago, Alan H said:

OK, so now I'm feeling stupid, 'cause when I read your post SOME-how I didn't grok that you OWN a gaff rigged boat. That makes you ten times better informed than me, as I've just crewed on a buddy's 32 footer, maybe a dozen times.

 

I'm trying to remember the sequence of events when reefing the main.....this is what I think I remember.

 

1. ease the mainsheet, head up into the wind.
2. ease the peak halyard, rather a lot.

3. ease the throat halyard, to the mark on the halyard. cleat.

4. attach the reefing hook to the eye in the main

5. tension the throat halyard.

6. haul in on the main clew until the foot was tight...tie up the cringles.

7. drop the. *thingamawhangy".."peak halyard snubber"???  I forget, but it was a line with a block on it that would pull the sheeting point of the peak halyard down the mast...cleat it off.  Normally it rode up at the top of the mast and didn't do much of anything.

8. Tension the peak halyard.

9. sheet in the main and off you go.

 

It was totally do-able by one guy, though faster with two. It took practice, though, and pretty sure it was slower than putting reef in a bermudan main in the 30-32 footers I've raced on, on the Bay.  But not THAT slow.

 

All things accounted for, I would, personally consider a gaff rig on a smallish cruising boat for myself as an entirely viable option.

 

Reefing the main on my junk rig:

Slack the main halyard until the batten drops onto the lower one.

Tighten up the sheet/sheetlets as desired - sail automatically pays out.

When you get around to it, tighten the yard hauling parrel. If you remember.

Or if you only want to reef one or 2 panels:

Take up on the lazy jacks to raise the lower batten to the next one up.

Job done.

FKT

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15 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Reefing the main on my junk rig:

Slack the main halyard until the batten drops onto the lower one.

Tighten up the sheet/sheetlets as desired - sail automatically pays out.

When you get around to it, tighten the yard hauling parrel. If you remember.

Or if you only want to reef one or 2 panels:

Take up on the lazy jacks to raise the lower batten to the next one up.

Job done.

FKT

Junk Rig:  The king of easy reefing.

Bet you can do it while holding a drink.

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17 minutes ago, Panope said:

Junk Rig:  The king of easy reefing.

Bet you can do it while holding a drink.

Yeah, don't even have to put the coffee down.

We were running under reefed foresail a couple weeks back, 6.5 knots with a lovely easy motion. Had to get the main and jib off fast when we came out of the lee of one of the islands. Main was simpler & easier than the jib, no flogging or other nasty behaviour. 380 sq feet main.

I really like my Colvin hull and Tom's rig design for it. I also have the sail plan for the gaff schooner and gaff ketch if I ever get bored.

But I'm going to do something that'll make Tom roll in his grave - put a small hard dodger on her. I don't really appreciate 30+ knots of spray in the face.

FKT

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AlanH's picture of the gunter rig with the loop round the mast is what I was referring to, though I've seen a cheek block mounted instead of the brass fitting.

The other solution was just a wire round in the same place, with parrel beads on it, held on by shackles which you had to stand on deck to undo..

I forgot to mention the 3rd solution, which is what was fitted to my own gunter rigged Lysander. That had a tight wire lying along the yard attached above and below upper and lower positions for the yard.

The top halyard attached to a block running on the wire and pulled the yard to the mast. The lower halyard  is attached to the lower wire mounting point  or the jaws.  The disadvantage is you can't get the gunter rig fully vertical.

 This Rebel Class Keelboat has something similar. R9 "Rebel Reveller" Built 1956

History of the Rebel One Design – Rebel One Design

See the source image

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3 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yeah, don't even have to put the coffee down.

We were running under reefed foresail a couple weeks back, 6.5 knots with a lovely easy motion. Had to get the main and jib off fast when we came out of the lee of one of the islands. Main was simpler & easier than the jib, no flogging or other nasty behaviour. 380 sq feet main.

I really like my Colvin hull and Tom's rig design for it. I also have the sail plan for the gaff schooner and gaff ketch if I ever get bored.

But I'm going to do something that'll make Tom roll in his grave - put a small hard dodger on her. I don't really appreciate 30+ knots of spray in the face.

FKT

His head must have been spinning when I did my Wheel house.

Its interesting that you think of experimenting with a gaff rig as I ponder trying a Junk.  I reckon my 'way forward' mast would be about perfect for a (single) big Junk sail.

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18 minutes ago, Panope said:

His head must have been spinning when I did my Wheel house.

Its interesting that you think of experimenting with a gaff rig as I ponder trying a Junk.  I reckon my 'way forward' mast would be about perfect for a (single) big Junk sail.

Really, I thought about it before I finished the hull, then asked Tom to draw up the junk rig for me. So far I'm quite happy with it and have no  plans to change it.

Were I younger I'd simply keep sailing this boat, build another one, put a gaff rig on that and play with both of them. Then sell the gaff rigger mainly because it'd be an easier sell than a junk schooner around here. But I'm a bit old to spend the years building another boat. I'm in awe of Tom - he said it took him 36 weeks to build ANTELOPE including making the rig & sewing the sails. OK it was a simple fitout and no engine but still.

If you get more serious about trying a junk rig I've got the junk sail plan for your 34' hull, if you didn't get it back when your hull was built.

FKT

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13 hours ago, 2airishuman said:

What are the disadvantages of gaff rigs?  Seems like the geometry is largely the same as a fractional sloop, for the simple ones.  The broads boats (which fascinate me) are complicated not only by bridges but by a desire to get much of the sail area up high where the wind isn't blocked by the banks.

It's hard to get a big fore triangle in a gaff rig because the head is usually at the height of the gaff jaws.  Going higher is possible, but staying gets tricky, compared to a Marconi rig, because the the use of hoops on the luff of the main makes it impossible to put spreaders where you would want them.

These problems can be ameliorated using fancy modern gear, but the cost, and risk of fouling aloft, go up.

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On 12/5/2020 at 11:34 PM, Alan H said:

So, were I to ever. have a sailing cruiser in the UK, the waterline to mast clearance must be less than 13.5 meters. Why?  Because the clearance under the Connell Bridge at the entrance to Loch Etive is 14 meters, and any boat I own has to be able to get into Loch Etive.

332039182-connel-bridge-loch-etive-scott

 

Loch-Etive-ZigZagOnEarth.jpg

 

You got anything weird like that?

Not weird really, but I am restricted to 6 foot water draft to get into my marina and less than 65 feet air draft to get under various bridges near me.

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8 hours ago, The Q said:

AlanH's picture of the gunter rig with the loop round the mast is what I was referring to, though I've seen a cheek block mounted instead of the brass fitting.

The other solution was just a wire round in the same place, with parrel beads on it, held on by shackles which you had to stand on deck to undo..

I forgot to mention the 3rd solution, which is what was fitted to my own gunter rigged Lysander. That had a tight wire lying along the yard attached above and below upper and lower positions for the yard.

The top halyard attached to a block running on the wire and pulled the yard to the mast. The lower halyard  is attached to the lower wire mounting point  or the jaws.  The disadvantage is you can't get the gunter rig fully vertical.

 This Rebel Class Keelboat has something similar. R9 "Rebel Reveller" Built 1956

History of the Rebel One Design – Rebel One Design

See the source image

So in this case you have two halyards again?  I see the wire on the yard, and the block that rides on it. That block must be attached to a halyard. There's also a lower halyard attached to the bottom of the yard? 

I looked up photos of the Lysander and I see the arrangement you're speaking of.  Three decades ago I had a mirror dinghy which of course is gunter rigged. I knew absolutely ~nothing~ at the time and while I sailed the boat a lot, I never really figured out how to make it right. However, I'm very strongly considering building a knockoff of the french "Caravelle" design which for all intents and purposes is a 14 foot version of the Mirror.  The plans I have are not for the strict French one-design, not that it would matter, as I've never seen one over here. The French boats have a single aluminum mast, but I'm considering  building mine with a gunter.  The mast would be aluminum tubing and I'd probably use fir for the yard and boom. In other words, just an upsized Mirror clone.

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You want quirky?

How about having a well known designer draw up a long-keeled cruising boat of around 44' in this day and age

Then specifying carbon as your material of choice...

And finally, telling the yard: 'Oh while you're at it, build me 4 of them!'

THAT is quirky!

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1 hour ago, alphafb552 said:

You want quirky?

How about having a well known designer draw up a long-keeled cruising boat of around 44' in this day and age

Then specifying carbon as your material of choice...

And finally, telling the yard: 'Oh while you're at it, build me 4 of them!'

THAT is quirky!

That's was so quirky it was kinky!

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15 hours ago, Alan H said:

So in this case you have two halyards again?  I see the wire on the yard, and the block that rides on it. That block must be attached to a halyard. There's also a lower halyard attached to the bottom of the yard? 

 

I'm pretty sure the second halyard is so tight to the mast that it can't be seen.. I looked for a closer photo of the rigging but couldn't find one..

The Caravelle looks interesting, the proper bigger brother of the Mirror is the Miracle.. but I don't know if there is a gunter rigged version, though you could choose to do that anyway..

The Association (miracledinghy.org)

 

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On 12/6/2020 at 4:34 AM, Alan H said:

So, were I to ever. have a sailing cruiser in the UK, the waterline to mast clearance must be less than 13.5 meters. Why?  Because the clearance under the Connell Bridge at the entrance to Loch Etive is 14 meters, and any boat I own has to be able to get into Loch Etive.

332039182-connel-bridge-loch-etive-scott

 

Loch-Etive-ZigZagOnEarth.jpg

 

You got anything weird like that?

The centaur fitted under the bridge with lots of space to spare.   I spent three days up there and it was jolly nice.  The top end is acoustically compromised by a road and railway running along the loch - but the top end is sublime.

The tide flows at a marvelous lick through there but there is a rock in the middle - you can see it just under the bridge.

there is a film I made about the place.

As for a gunter rig.... I have sailed with one on my Minstrel for five years.  It is a very good rig. The mainsail is massive -  she tacks and beats under main alone if needed, the spars are short so can be stored inside the boat (they have to go in through the forehatch and down along the quarter berth) -   When going up waterways with very small clearances requiring frequent  mast drops I leave the boom and gaff on the side deck and use just the main mast with a topper main and a big genoa - I can drop the whole rig while under way.

I have often wondered why the rig is not used more often on trailer sailers - it makes dropping the mast a piece of cake.

Never seen a centaur with a gunter rig.

this is the minstrel

Water_Music_006_Hunter_Minstrel_20160731

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, chester said:
19 hours ago, alphafb552 said:

You want quirky?

How about having a well known designer draw up a long-keeled cruising boat of around 44' in this day and age

Then specifying carbon as your material of choice...

And finally, telling the yard: 'Oh while you're at it, build me 4 of them!'

THAT is quirky!

That's was so quirky it was kinky!

I think when you are wealthy enough to afford 4 carbon cutters, you're officially "eccentric"

FB- Doug

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Don't know if its quirky but.  The companion way steps have to be as few as possible.  When. Choosing between two boats  the least no. of steps wins.  I don't want to be an alpinist to get in and neither does the dog.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

image.png.176100e1434b3dc8f7cc42ec7c72a3e0.png

One of these, likely in this race, has a dog basket at the base of the mast.. containing up to 5 king Charles spaniels.. the odd Labrador is not uncommon.

In another class, I've raced with a couple of rough collies on board..

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On 12/10/2020 at 10:28 AM, Dogscout said:

Don't know if its quirky but.  The companion way steps have to be as few as possible.  When. Choosing between two boats  the least no. of steps wins.  I don't want to be an alpinist to get in and neither does the dog.

 

I was on a 40-ish Tartan and a Catalina 34 in a couple week span. The Tartan had high, steep companionway ladder and a short narrow hatch. In combination, they suggested that facing the ladder was a good idea. The Catalina had a huge hatch and three wide steps down into the cabin.

Aside from Catalina being customer friendly, maybe it's the difference between a blue water boat and a coastal cruiser.

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