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Practice Races This Week


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To give you an idea of how close we were to the action, this was taken with a wide angle lens!

A couple of quick ones before I go and send some to the boss ...

Talk about a Bond movie - between the high-speed TV Cat, the spray, the chopper, the chase boats and the AC75s, it was a full-on experience, in Dolby Surround Sound. A perk of being on the TV Cat

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21 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

So in other words No. You're a fairweather fan that jumps on the bandwagon when they win.

Au contraire I don’t actually give a rats arse about who wins this freak show extraordinaire you’re the quintessential fanboy fanatic the outcome will be forever of greater interest to you than me.

Enjoy the regatta show some positive enthusiasm support your comments with reality bases facts look upon other people’s opinions as a opportunity to learn from a differing perspective and hey less of the endless childish tantrums will be of great benefit not only Foryourselves.

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Put the shoe on the other foot. If ETNZ was a no show, the unfounded baseless rumours of the Kiwi's being "scared" and "having issues within the team" would be rife in here. 

Except breaking something isn’t being scared is it? 

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2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

3 true statements though.

Proof please? That the actual factual reason ineos and Am are not on the water is because nz “put the shits up them. “
 

prove that with facts/statements from crew management etc and I will leave permanently 

or just tone down the bullshit a touch eh? 

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15 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Proof please? That the actual factual reason ineos and Am are not on the water is because nz “put the shits up them. “
 

prove that with facts/statements from crew management etc and I will leave permanently 

or just tone down the bullshit a touch eh? 

Iain Murray was interviewed on One News tonight, asked if there was any reason the other two boats weren't on the water.

His answer, quote: "Not that I'm aware of"

Surely if its an organised practice day, as it was, the teams would need to inform the RD of their intention to not show up, and possibly why - there was no reason he knew of.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/one-news-at-6pm/live

By the way, telling me to tone the down the bullshit is a bit rich coming from you.

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Iain Murray was interviewed on One News tonight, asked if there was any reason the other two boats weren't on the water.

His answer, quote: "Not that I'm aware of"

Surely if its an organised practice day, as it was, the teams would need to inform the RD of their intention to not show up, and possibly why - there was no reason he knew of.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/one-news-at-6pm/live

By the way, telling me to tone the down the bullshit is a bit rich coming from you.

So you ignore all other articles saying boats were broken because it supports your agenda. 

“not that I am aware of “ is not unequivocal proof that both teams were scared either. So keep trying. 

Surely a man of your standing can get a direct quote from Ben or from Terry admitting that they were scared and that’s why they’re not on the water come on just try harder Clarkie

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1 hour ago, fish7yu said:

 

Oh my. Please Pete, be nicer to your guests.

Nice big chop, good to see these boats sliding through it with ease. Etnz popping that tip, didn't see LR once breach.

My favourite shot, of much excellent footage, thanks team.

 

Screenshot_20201210-212311_YouTube.jpg

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3 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Sail the missus picked this muffin tray up from Briscoes tell you they go a lot quicker than your offering.

AC75TeRehutaiDraftCadV1.thumb.png.4b811fe74e4efc5d0e0831b5bdd7e523.png

 

"Picking", illustration of hull only, and tired brain made me see a very design scoop. Handle is not really ergonomic.

71+76XgZsWL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

 

Let's keep the picture/video with sails and water to appreciate those foiling beasts how they should.

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31 minutes ago, barfy said:

Oh my. Please Pete, be nicer to your guests.

Nice big chop, good to see these boats sliding through it with ease. Etnz popping that tip, didn't see LR once breach.

My favourite shot, of much excellent footage, thanks team.

 

Screenshot_20201210-212311_YouTube.jpg

That seas state looks similar to the claimed sweet spot for LR based on one of their early videos from their Italy base.

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2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Which is why your opinion means sweet F-all.

The view and input from people who are neutral but have some knowledge of sailing and racing carries far more weight than a fanatical idiot who is so narrow minded his brain could fit through the eye of a needle and who doesn't have a clue about sailboat racing.

Most people on here want to learn from the knowledge of others. You are more like Trump shouting down everything that disagrees with your prejudiced views as fake news

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

So you ignore all other articles saying boats were broken because it supports your agenda. 

“not that I am aware of “ is not unequivocal proof that both teams were scared either. So keep trying. 

Surely a man of your standing can get a direct quote from Ben or from Terry admitting that they were scared and that’s why they’re not on the water come on just try harder Clarkie

There are also plenty of reports that Ineos has built a dog. 

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5 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

The view and input from people who are neutral but have some knowledge of sailing and racing carries far more weight than a fanatical idiot who is so narrow minded his brain could fit through the eye of a needle and who doesn't have a clue about sailboat racing.

Most people on here want to learn from the knowledge of others. You are more like Trump shouting down everything that disagrees with your prejudiced views as fake news

Fuck neutral. If you don’t have a horse in the race you aren’t invested enough and are just trolling from the outside. You keep talking crap about Dalton and I’m willing to bet you neither know the guy or have met him. Guess what. I actually have met the guy and he’s as Kiwi as anyone else on that team. The guy tells it like it is. And that’s why he’s as highly respected as he is in the sailing community. But all those “knowledgeable” people on here talk shit about the guy any chance they get. Why? Because he’s successful and they aren’t. They all thought they were knowledgeable last cycle too, taking the piss out of simulators and talking all sorts of rubbish about how far behind were, and as it turned out I was the one who was right and they all got it wrong. So screw your neutral shit. Grow a pair and get invested or STFU. 

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

There are also plenty of reports that Ineos has built a dog. 

Not reputable ones. Not ones who have actually watched them.

Weta said that sometimes GB looked fast

Sailworld said that GB appeared to struggle to lift (with the C0 which everyone seems to have a problem with) but once up they were fast

The only ones saying GB have a dog so far are people om here counting frames without understanding trigonometry or someone has a friend whose gardener's sister knows a man.

They may be a dog. But we don't know yet

p.s. I have never dissed Dalton, and neither am I neutral. So stop talking shit on that front too

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1 minute ago, enigmatically2 said:

Not reputable ones. Not ones who have actually watched them.

Weta said that sometimes GB looked fast

Sailworld said that GB appeared to struggle to lift (with the C0 which everyone seems to have a problem with) but once up they were fast

The only ones saying GB have a dog so far are people om here counting frames without understanding trigonometry or someone has a friend whose gardener's sister knows a man.

They may be a dog. But we don't know yet

p.s. I have never dissed Dalton, and neither am I neutral. So stop talking shit on that front too

Well, all of that. It's too bad we didn't see them out last two days.

Soon enough there will be more to talk about. :)

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8 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Fuck neutral. If you don’t have a horse in the race you aren’t invested enough and are just trolling from the outside. You keep talking crap about Dalton and I’m willing to bet you neither know the guy or have met him. Guess what. I actually have met the guy and he’s as Kiwi as anyone else on that team. The guy tells it like it is. And that’s why he’s as highly respected as he is in the sailing community. But all those “knowledgeable” people on here talk shit about the guy any chance they get. They all thought they were knowledgeable last cycle, and it turned out I was the one who was right. So screw your neutral shit. Grow a pair and get invested or STFU. 

Crikey you posted a while back that you have bred god help them all if you are the first and last person they lay eyes on every waking day.

This classic petulant diatribe should be framed and hung in a most  prominent part of your whare.

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Just now, enigmatically2 said:

Not reputable ones. Not ones who have actually watched them.

Weta said that sometimes GB looked fast

Sailworld said that GB appeared to struggle to lift (with the C0 which everyone seems to have a problem with) but once up they were fast

The only ones saying GB have a dog so far are people om here counting frames without understanding trigonometry or someone has a friend whose gardener's sister knows a man.

They may be a dog. But we don't know yet

p.s. I have never dissed Dalton, and neither am I neutral. So stop talking shit on that front too

So who are these “neutral knowledgeable people” you speak of? There are no neutral people here. They claim to be, but in all honesty it’s because they know who’s going to win, and it’s not their team so they’re “neutral” but once the AC starts they won’t be rooting for ETNZ that’s for sure. So how neutral are they really? How knowledgeable are they really? 

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1 hour ago, I ride bikes said:

Imagine having to race a smaller engine. 

Size/power isn't everything.

Back in the day, I had one of the first Datsun 240z cars when they came out. Raced a Jaguar XJS, his 5.3L V12 left my 2.4L inline 6 for dead in a straight line. But I caught him at every set of corners, and might have passed, had he not been all over the road.

That "24 ounce" was an awesome sports car for it's day, and price. I miss it.

Same with these boats, it will the sum of the entire package which includes the crew.

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5 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

those “knowledgeable” people on here talk shit about the guy any chance they get. They all thought they were knowledgeable last cycle, and it turned out I

Do remember I put down a grand at 12:1 as soon as I saw the bda 5 flopping around in mihbda first two videos. I believed

Edit: reply to 4

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2 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Crikey you posted a while back that you have bred god help them all  if you are the first and last person they lay eyes on every waking day.

At least they’ll be decisive, not sit back and wait for everyone else to make the decisions like the fence sitting indecisive don’t give a rats arse fool you are. My daughter will be just fine.

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

So who are these “neutral knowledgeable people” you speak of? There are no neutral people here. They claim to be, but in all honesty it’s because they know who’s going to win, and it’s not their team so they’re “neutral” but once the AC starts they won’t be rooting for ETNZ that’s for sure. So how neutral are they really? How knowledgeable are they really? 

I don't know who is neutral. You just said that the opinion of anyone without skin in the game is worthless. I disagree 100%

And as for who is knowledgable, as a guiding rule, I would suggest everyone else is knowledgeable compared to you. And so are some of their pets

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9 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Not reputable ones. Not ones who have actually watched them.

Weta said that sometimes GB looked fast

Sailworld said that GB appeared to struggle to lift (with the C0 which everyone seems to have a problem with) but once up they were fast

The only ones saying GB have a dog so far are people om here counting frames without understanding trigonometry or someone has a friend whose gardener's sister knows a man.

They may be a dog. But we don't know yet

p.s. I have never dissed Dalton, and neither am I neutral. So stop talking shit on that front too

You can’t win the AC by only being fast sometimes. You also can’t win the AC if you’re struggling to get up on foils. They have the resources. They have the tools, the people and the finances. They have no excuse. They’ve already built one dog, and it looks as though the second isn’t much better. Certainly not enough to give them confidence to go out practicing against the other teams.

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5 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

After just two days I am beginning to wish we could go back to the "good old days" when the challenger/s did not meet the defender until the first day of the AC match.

Yeah me too. There used to be something special with what Peter Montgomery used to call the "trial of strength" where the two IACCs would go upwind in unison until the windward boat would either get spit out or could live there.

With the lead mines that intense moment could last 10 minutes or more and was just exhilarating.

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6 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

I don't know who is neutral. You just said that the opinion of anyone without skin in the game is worthless. I disagree 100%

And as for who is knowledgable, as a guiding rule, I would suggest everyone else is knowledgeable compared to you. And so are some of their pets

You just said input from knowledgeable people on here. Now you say there is t any knowledgeable people here? WTF? If you don’t have skin in the game you don’t the same passion for it that someone who does have skin in the game has. I don’t care what you suggest. Those knowledgeable people were wrong last time. I was right. That’s what matters. Those same knowledgeable people have so far been wrong this time too. 

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17 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Fuck neutral. If you don’t have a horse in the race you aren’t invested enough and are just trolling from the outside. You keep talking crap about Dalton and I’m willing to bet you neither know the guy or have met him. Guess what. I actually have met the guy and he’s as Kiwi as anyone else on that team. The guy tells it like it is. And that’s why he’s as highly respected as he is in the sailing community. But all those “knowledgeable” people on here talk shit about the guy any chance they get. Why? Because he’s successful and they aren’t. They all thought they were knowledgeable last cycle too, taking the piss out of simulators and talking all sorts of rubbish about how far behind were, and as it turned out I was the one who was right and they all got it wrong. So screw your neutral shit. Grow a pair and get invested or STFU. 

GD has got a nice pad in lymington, which part of Auckland is that? 

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Just now, Forourselves said:

You just input from knowledgeable people on here. Now you say there is t any knowledgeable people here? WTF? If you don’t have skin in the game you don’t the same passion for it that someone who does have skin in the game has. I don’t care what you suggest. Those knowledgeable people were wrong last time. I was right. That’s what matters. Those same knowledgeable people have so far been wrong this time too. 

Are you hard of reading? And writing?

Your first sentence makes no sense.

Your 2nd sentence is the diametric opposite of what I said.

With respect to the last 2 sentences, an idiot can sometimes guess which number a roulette wheel will give. That doesn't mean he will be right the next time

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4 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

At least they’ll be decisive, not sit back and wait for everyone else to make the decisions like the fence sitting indecisive don’t give a rats arse fool you are. My daughter will be just fine.

Clarkey the Cup will go on where ever and when ever as it has done for some considerable time that’s the life your parochial fanaticism is a riot keep the faith and when your daughter brings home Jimmy Spithill just remember she will be fine...

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3 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Hmm cute 

where is the proof on the scared claim? Want to retract or double down with the lies? Ok if lies is a bit harsh just admit you made it up? 

Nope. I don’t. Maybe when you retract a few thousand of your bullshit posts  with no proof I’ll think about it. Or not.

we won. We’re gonna win again.

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17 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

After just two days I am beginning to wish we could go back to the "good old days" when the challenger/s did not meet the defender until the first day of the AC match.

Too bloody fast and dangerous to do that now.

Or at least until they install halos and crash pods for the crew

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8 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Are you hard of reading? And writing?

Your first sentence makes no sense.

Your 2nd sentence is the diametric opposite of what I said.

With respect to the last 2 sentences, an idiot can sometimes guess which number a roulette wheel will give. That doesn't mean he will be right the next time

Nope I’m reading your post from before saying “input from knowledgeable people” carries more weight than my fanatical opinion” then you say you don’t know any knowledgeable people, so how could you judge the two? Secondly, the AC game is more than a pure game of chance like roulette. You should know that by now. Maybe my knowledge carries a bit more weight than yours.

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16 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Nope. I don’t. Maybe when you retract a few thousand of your bullshit posts  with no proof I’ll think about it. Or not.

we won. We’re gonna win again.

So your happy to admit you deliberately lie for your own agenda? Classy, is that why you had to drop clarkey and now use your current sock? The lies catch you out? 
 

where have I said something is 100% truthful and then not backed it up if asked? 
I have readily admitted if I have got something wrong but doing your flat out lie routine? Na that not me. 
 

if you can’t win a rule that your team wrote it’s pretty embarrassing. 

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36 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Yeah me too. There used to be something special with what Peter Montgomery used to call the "trial of strength" where the two IACCs would go upwind in unison until the windward boat would either get spit out or could live there.

With the lead mines that intense moment could last 10 minutes or more and was just exhilarating.

I'd rather slower boats, longer races, and the tension over time that generated.

Not the fast and furious for the attention deficit generation.

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4 minutes ago, Nutta said:

I'd rather slower boats, longer races, and the tension over time that generated.

Not the fast and furious for the attention deficit generation.

I think they will have reached a limit with foiling boats after this.

God knows what might come next.

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25 minutes ago, uflux said:

The Italians are in trouble. That last lap says it all. ETNZ are higher and faster which allows them to do one less tack. Game over

LR have still got another set of foils to come. At a guess I'd say they're going to be smaller, and quite possibly T foils. Plenty of time for them to improve. Kiwis are looking quite strong though - which is encouraging.

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1 minute ago, Horn Rock said:

LR have still got another set of foils to come. At a guess I'd say they're going to be smaller, and quite possibly T foils. Plenty of time for them to improve. Kiwis are looking quite strong though - which is encouraging.

Who would also have another set of foils to come I’m tipping 

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1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

ETNZ very quick here.  First top mark rounding at ~6:00 looks pretty hairy!

Going to be one boring AC Cup if these videos are anything to go by? Almost as bad as when Alinghi raced their cat against Oracle's Tri. ETNZ's height and speed upwind is ridiculous compared to the Italians. So if one was going to summize why AM and Ineos didn't go out today it could be quite a few reasons but the one that's starting to come to my mind is that they have seen something with the Kiwis that has them scratching their heads. The subject of sail area keeps coming up but there's more than that going on? At the moment we have three challengers that all seem to be around the same speed give or take and then there's the Kiwis. I'm tipping they discovered something early on when drawing the AC75 that the challengers haven't seen or thought of? I know it's early but I smell a "ROCKET" that one team has and the other 3 don't. :o

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24 minutes ago, Nutta said:

I'd rather slower boats, longer races, and the tension over time that generated.

Not the fast and furious for the attention deficit generation.

Yep the winner will sail for maybe 3 hours if they win 7 zip. After 4 years and hundreds of thousands of man hours. A dinghy race lasts longer. 

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1 minute ago, terrafirma said:

I'm tipping they discovered something early on when drawing the AC75 that the challengers haven't seen or thought of

LR, AM, and Ineos are all running similar looking foils. ETNZ seem to be the odd one out. This might be the difference we're seeing?

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Just now, minimumfuss said:

Yep the winner will sail for maybe 3 hours if they win 7 zip. After 4 years and hundred of thousands of man hours. A dinghy race lasts longer. 

Let's go back to the 12 metre boats or a one design then. I'm hearin ya it's going to be over in a blink of an eye. Anyone care to guess what amount of time a race will take?

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6 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Or maybe just to get back as deep into the starting box as possible?

Could be!  I imagine they've been thinking about alternative tacticss during the pre-start. Maybe even drop the windward foil briefly if they've been hooked, fall behind and perhaps hook your opponent in return?

Somehow I doubt that they will just have the attitude of "hit the start running" regardless of tactics. It's going to be fun! :)

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2 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

LR, AM, and Ineos are all running similar looking foils. ETNZ seem to be the odd one out. This might be the difference we're seeing?

I'm sure it could be a huge factor. What makes we laugh though is did they really think all of them would be right and ETNZ would be wrong? No disrespect but given NZ's record in the AC vs the others I'd be looking at ETNZ all the time and saying why are we different? 

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4 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

I'd be looking at ETNZ all the time and saying why are we different? 

Going to be hard to win it if you're just following. At some point you've got to trust your design boffins and the direction they're going to take you. This cup is far from decided. I'd be surprised if the Kiwis weren't strong early on, but it's not a done deal yet.

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

Everyone's just sandbagging..no worries

If only that were true! 

It looks like they are all on a sharp learning curve. The boats must be an incredible adrenalin rush when they take off. At the higher wind speeds they are right on the ragged edge of control with disaster possible at any moment. Plus all the issues of mechanical and structural failure. Plus trying to get the twin skin deck sweeping bottomless mainsails to work and controlling twist at the top. And then choosing high or low aspect jibs. Then the foils and foil controls and getting enough hydraulic power from the grinders....

It is a contest of gigantic proportions at the very leading edge of the sport. 

And it is looking like ETNZ are once again the ones most on top of the balance between technological innovation and sailing skills.

Hence my thoughts that it is a shame that the challenger and defenders meet before the Match. However much the Prada Cup will be exciting to see which of the challengers will prevail, I have a feeling that the Cup itself will be far less interesting. 

And please can JalHazmat, fourourselves and enigmatically take their childish spat elsewhere into their own thread!

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Going to be hard to win it if you're just following. At some point you've got to trust your design boffins and the direction they're going to take you. This cup is far from decided. I'd be surprised if the Kiwis weren't strong early on, but it's not a done deal yet.

100% not a done deal yet. Looking strong early on is an understatement.! :D

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Fuck me that  video of Roger Mills is the best yet, and it's only from miles away. You can just tell they are racing and not "testing". That tack from LR at 13.49 was the nastiest I've seen. Jimmy angry at life to leeward and behind. In Pirelli terms that's softs vs hards lol. 

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27 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

 

And please can JalHazmat, fourourselves and enigmatically take their childish spat elsewhere into their own thread!

 

 

 

More than happy too. 
 

Seems ground rules are you can say what the fuck you like with nothing to back it up and if you are a kiwi sock puppet it’s all ok?

the spat is about actually conducting a discussion and keeping it factual, loyalties aside it’s about actually being truthful.

old sock can’t seem to manage it.

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12 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Both boats looked nicely dialed in with their ride height. LR has that little lean forward to get the seal. TR very flat for the same effect.

Yeah noticed that too. TR was almost pinching up on the upwind footage. Yes steep learning curve that's for sure . The upwind height and speed advantage is unusual, usually one or the other but higher and faster at the same time and by a margin if you were guessing at the delta's at the mark rounding. Accumulate that over all the legs and the margin could be minutes at the end? That doesn't make for a good spectacle. 

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2 hours ago, Lat35sowth said:

This is where the billionaires start spending some cash.

Be funny if Ineos and AM come out of the shed looking like TR after 200 men working 24/7 change hull shapes in 2 days.

My own take is that they are both hitting the glass and gridners pretty hard,  the limited bit we've got to go on has them looking quite strong, and I get the feeling Amway wants to make some quick changes before the racing starts.  Up to last week they were feeling confident, not sure if that's changed. 

Also, to those that said TR would look a lot better while racing, you were right! Especially clicking off boatlengths against another boat.

Also also, please for the love of all that is good stop quoting Fourourselves, he's totally useless and he's also probably thrilled that you guys are filling half of a page with him.  

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On 12/9/2020 at 3:11 PM, Rennmaus said:

ETNZ had peaked too early in the past. Be careful what you wish for. 

Right. With INEOS and AM apparently not a threat, Max will be sandbagging like nobody’s business ...

 

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On 12/9/2020 at 10:11 PM, Rennmaus said:

ETNZ had peaked too early in the past. Be careful what you wish for. 

TR was launched only 3 weeks ago, which they tried to design a 2022 generation boat, with ETNZ's experience in AC35, it is unlikely they will peak too soon this time around, the question would be that whether they can extract the maximum out of TR by the time of the cup race.

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Interesting view. I must admit that when I asked who would play and who they would avoid I did wonder if the other teams would avoid playing with NZ, but I thought the UK  breakage was real.

Thing is, even the Christmas regatta is not worth anything so there may be similar behaviour there if RG is correct

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10 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

I did wonder if the other teams would avoid playing with NZ,

Might be better to know now if you're off the pace so you can possibly rectify it. If you leave it to March you won't have enough time to make significant changes. Even now trying to emulate the Kiwis mainsail system would be a big ask.

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10 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Might be better to know now if you're off the pace so you can possibly rectify it. If you leave it to March you won't have enough time to make significant changes. Even now trying to emulate the Kiwis mainsail system would be a big ask.

But the point is that if the 3 of them practise and work up and race, it may be NZ who are off the pace. That is the possibility if RG is correct

 

Though I do agree the NZ main control looks good

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10 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Might be better to know now if you're off the pace so you can possibly rectify it. If you leave it to March you won't have enough time to make significant changes. Even now trying to emulate the Kiwis mainsail system would be a big ask.

It will be interesting if all the challengers show up for the Friday practice. I guess defender and challenger of record are obliged to so that IM can get the courses, boundaries,  umpires, tv boats sorted.

In the longer term there should be enough time for the challengers to copy a few of the more obvious ETNZ innovations (as long as it does not deflect from being competitive in the Prada Cup).

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Given the practice days have seen nz with bigger head sails  and there have been examples of NZ persisting with a CZ when everyone else is on the Number 1 

does that link to the small foils need more power idea? Or is it all a load of misleading bollocks? 
 

I guess if l/when Prada pop on their last set of what will be small foils and suddenly up the head sail size is adds to the notion. 

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