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1 hour ago, TheBSJ said:

I'm currently sat at work with nearly a complete 3kW Pod system in boxes behind my desk. The sidemount control is arriving "soon" on an unspecified date, when they can arrange shipping/aero from Germany. Slightly worried about that, but have plenty to do first.

 

Did you get an ePropulsion or Torqeedo?

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Sea trial today went well. We launched TONIC without the rig, and most everything normally aboard had been stripped before the work began. No leaking! We weren't really concerned but it was encouragin

Regarding this consideration at the beginning of this topic... I went for a solo sail a couple of days ago. It began with a 6 - 8 knot breeze from the south, and I headed north, so I could eat my

Jimmy, with all respect, I don't want this thread to end with a paean to an internal combustion engine. I never really liked my Honda 2. I liked the Torqeedo a lot more, but it had its limitations, so

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2 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Did you get an ePropulsion or Torqeedo?

It's the Epropulsion. 

Various reasons - price, dealer's ability to answer questions, unit size, amongst others.

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3 hours ago, TheBSJ said:

It's the Epropulsion. 

Various reasons - price, dealer's ability to answer questions, unit size, amongst others.

Did you get the E80 battery?

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Progress and Pics

Pod drive in place:

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_583a.thumb.jpg.259f1bdeb4608ffa0efbbb34b985c7b5.jpg

Inside showing mounting bolts and cable:

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_583d.thumb.jpg.ba7fbeb28609b9cee284ca3602b4a460.jpg

Battery tray & straps in place:

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_5842.thumb.jpg.fa6d7aed89a67e3df3dae2db7920aee2.jpg

Main On-Off switch on port settee riser, just inside companionway:

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_583e.thumb.jpg.9567fa5124b9c7cc420286f84bec5f3b.jpg 

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@Bull City That looks nice and neat, especially the fairing externally and padding internally around the pod. 

They were pretty keen on simple match of *this* pod with *that* battery, so 3kw pod and an E80 battery. 

We've been using the Mastervolt Li-ions at work, partly because their battery monitoring set up was really good, and they had a bluetooth connection for all that data from each battery. It'll be interesting to see how much data the guys can pull off the E80, as it's approximately the same price for 4kW, 52V E80 as just one 1kW 13v Mastervolt unit. 

Jess.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Bull City said:

Inside showing mounting bolts and cable:

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_583d.thumb.jpg.ba7fbeb28609b9cee284ca3602b4a460.jpg

 

Bull, you might consider getting rid of the gate valve(s) and replacing them with proper seacocks while you have easy access. Surveyors generally frown on those OEM valves, even though most every boat in the 60s, 70s and early 80s came with them.

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43 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

Bull, you might consider getting rid of the gate valve(s) and replacing them with proper seacocks while you have easy access. Surveyors generally frown on those OEM valves, even though most every boat in the 60s, 70s and early 80s came with them.

A minor quibble: a "proper" seacock is a tapered cone, IMO; surveyors seem to like ball valves, IME.

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1 minute ago, weightless said:

A minor quibble: a "proper" seacock is a tapered cone, IMO; surveyors seem to like ball valves, IME.

Quite right. But now most NA suppliers are marketing bronze, threaded ball valves with a flange base on one end as "seacocks".

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On 6/10/2021 at 10:55 AM, Bull City said:

Well, it is a good thing that I did not send that email to Yan Cai, even though he must be very ill-informed.

As an alternative source, I took a look at the Torqeedo folding prop, which they offer as an option for their 5 HP pod drive. I downloaded the manual, and discovered that it's a FlexoFold prop. I submitted an inquiry to them, to see if they had a prop that would be suitable for my pod drive, and here is their response (Danish-English):

right now does Flexofold only supply the propeller for the 6.0 , the propeller
for the other motors are under development.

An apparent case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing.

Time to relax. Breath slowly.

Time to draft a note to Flexofold.  

"Dear Sirs,

Knowing the immense value that real world testing provides to product development I would like to offer you the opportunity to place a prototype folding prop on my 3.0.  As compensation for providing you with data from my experience all I would ask for is a production prop when it becomes available and the cost of a haul out to replace the prototype with the production prop.

Sincerely,

Bull City"

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The 3D printed one  - TLAR: 

image.png.31c2e026f18b0c525a2e995a31343109.png

While he might room for a 12" prop it might be too big. If it was a 4 HP  I.C. motor it would not have the torque to turn it at the rated speed. With an electric motor that has high torque at zero RPM, it might just work. Need to see a torque curve for the motor.

 

1 hour ago, weightless said:

a "proper" seacock is a tapered cone

Not in my world of commercial ship design. Tapered bronze cones are so obsolete it's hard to believe people still buy them.

We use ball or globe valves. Steel bodies if the owner is cheap, bronze otherwise. They get pulled at every 5 year survey for inspection.

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I've been thinking about ePropulsion pods, but I've been unable to find any information about integrating their systems with solar or wind chargers, or with the usual house loads.

 

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7 hours ago, jdege said:

I've been thinking about ePropulsion pods, but I've been unable to find any information about integrating their systems with solar or wind chargers, or with the usual house loads.

Have you tried contacting the company, or one of their dealers?

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On 6/16/2021 at 12:55 AM, IStream said:

Nice, clean work as far I can tell.

Yes, I agree. The battery tray was made with four (I think) laminated ¼" layers of Coosa Board.

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48 minutes ago, Bull City said:

A sailing buddy sent me this 2009 article about propellers. I definitely want a folding prop.

Not feathering? Slightly more drag, and still able to catch lines when "folded", but usually better for manoeuvring because of efficient reverse. 

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12 hours ago, Bull City said:

Have you tried contacting the company, or one of their dealers?

Yes. The company has a link that's supposed to connect you to a dealer - no dealer has responded.

The one dealer I reached out to directly responded with a request for more info, and then ghosted me.

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33 minutes ago, jdege said:

Yes. The company has a link that's supposed to connect you to a dealer - no dealer has responded.

The one dealer I reached out to directly responded with a request for more info, and then ghosted me.

I'm sending you a PM with a contact at the dealer I used.

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18 hours ago, Mark Morwood said:

feathering?

The only feathering I have done (besides my nest) is oar blades while sculling.

I pretty much understand feathering props, but what had been a mystery is how the prop blade angle is adjusted, and how they're adjusted while the prop is spinning.

From what I read, the shaft rotation provides the torque which opens them in the proper direction (forward or reverse), and when the shaft stops, the blades return to the feathered position, I guess because of a spring mechanism.

So there are three positions: F, R, and Feathered.

Does that sound right?

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23 minutes ago, Bull City said:

I pretty much understand feathering props, but what is a mystery is how the prop blade angle is adjusted, and how they're adjusted while the prop is spinning.

Perhaps you are envisioning something like a variable pitch or constant speed propeller? Most sailboat feathering props are simpler things. There is usually some kind of pitch adjustment that can be done at setup time.Some have stops eg. Max-Prop, Kiwiprop. Autoprop uses a fancy blade design that orients itself. In use they operate automatically and without any direct control from the user.

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:

Transom primed:

1652143611_z8YVKgYgTNZZwsDbuplQ_thumb_5856.thumb.jpg.0641f98e243449ba75826586e3d7e4b6.jpg

Maybe its just me, or its the light, or the way the paint is drying, but when I blow up the pic, it sure looks like that prime coat is going to need a ton of sanding to make it smooth...

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5 hours ago, Crash said:

Maybe its just me

No, it definitely looks like that to me too.
Probably only an artifact of light like you said though. Can't think of a single reason why the yard would not get that right. Their other paint work is perfect afterall.

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9 hours ago, Crash said:

Maybe its just me, or its the light, or the way the paint is drying, but when I blow up the pic, it sure looks like that prime coat is going to need a ton of sanding to make it smooth...

 

3 hours ago, allweather said:

No, it definitely looks like that to me too.
Probably only an artifact of light like you said though. Can't think of a single reason why the yard would not get that right. Their other paint work is perfect afterall.

I agree. Since they're only doing the transom, I think the primer was brushed on. 

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The ePropulsion FB page has a recent entry of some performance data (speed & Watts) for a 3.0 Pod Drive. Below is how it compares to my old Torqeedo 1003 on my H-Boat.

The  Beneteau is a 235 with a wing keel. I don't know what to make of it.

1351950835_ScreenShot2021-06-24at6_03_44PM.png.e093d6ddc0641f5b54e2acdcf858b5bb.png

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12 hours ago, Bull City said:

The ePropulsion FB page has a recent entry of some performance data (speed & Watts) for a 3.0 Pod Drive. Below is how it compares to my old Torqeedo 1003 on my H-Boat.

The  Beneteau is a 235 with a wing keel. I don't know what to make of it.

I make of it that a H-boat has a shape which moves through the water very efficiently.  The BendyToy has massively more wetted surface, and a huge broad draggy transom

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

I make of it that a H-boat has a shape which moves through the water very efficiently.  The BendyToy has massively more wetted surface, and a huge broad draggy transom

I tend to be pessimistic, and wonder about the efficiency of the pod drive compared to the Torqeedo, the difference in props perhaps. I guess I'll find out soon. 

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27 minutes ago, Bull City said:

I tend to be pessimistic, and wonder about the efficiency of the pod drive compared to the Torqeedo, the difference in props perhaps. I guess I'll find out soon. 

I reckon you will be pleasantly surprised.  (If it was my boat, I'd be pessimistic too, but that's just 'cos I find that low expectations lead to happy outcomes).

The pictures show a very tidy installation.  It's amazing how small the pod is.

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54 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

The pictures show a very tidy installation. 

It is very tidy. I cannot believe that I was considering a DIY approach at one point. It would have been a disaster.

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Ah Bull, I doubt disaster.   You are far too conscientious for that.

But still, the yard has done you proud with what seems to be very fine work.   It's good to know that such craftsmanship still exists outside of the money-no-object yards which maintain varnished boats.

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Transom starting to look nice!

I too doubt you have anything to worry about in regards to efficiency. Some may be there in the electronics since the price difference isn‘t just in the name. 

But at the same time the pods are better suited to a larger boat like our small sailboats compared to the still dinghy focused outboards. 

I really like how well everything is sorted under the companionway!

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56 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Bull, Tonic looks so exquisite that she probably belongs in your drawing room beside the Steinway.   Or maybe your sword room.

You probably say that to all the girls. Tee hee. 

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On 6/18/2021 at 1:26 AM, Mark Morwood said:

Not feathering? Slightly more drag, and still able to catch lines when "folded", but usually better for manoeuvring because of efficient reverse. 

Yes, but I don't think that his boat needs a super efficient reverse. Surely minimum drag and not catching lines when sailing is more important in his case.

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On 6/30/2021 at 5:04 PM, Bull City said:

TONIC is very dusty down below, but the transom has a coat of Carinthia Blue - very shiny:

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_5862.thumb.jpg.b219bd0e933dbf2a1d779de3b223fb17.jpg

Battery with lights on:

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_5863.thumb.jpg.43b0e56794c1fc8be1d86c314ca42bd6.jpg

Ooohhh, aahhh!!!

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Sea Trial

The boatyard boss and I decided that we should put the boat in the water while it's in Oriental, and test everything. We won't step the mast, etc., but we obviously want to be sure there are no leaks, and that the boat floats on its lines. For that purpose we'll place some weights to simulate the mast. Anyone know the approximate weight of an H-Boat or J-24 mast & boom?

We plan to do this after all the work is done, and just before transport to its home on Kerr Lake.

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If they've got the mast at the yard, they could set one end on a bathroom scale to get ~weight/2. Put that amount of weight around the partners and throw the mast on deck for the trial and Bob's your uncle.

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

If they've got the mast at the yard, they could set one end on a bathroom scale to get ~weight/2. Put that amount of weight around the partners and throw the mast on deck for the trial and Bob's your uncle.

On a fractional rig (esp one with a tapered mast), the top end is much lighter than the bottom. Less spar weight, less stays, less halyards.  So weight both ends and add.

From experience of carrying masts for similar boats, I guess an all-in weight of about 120lb for mast+rigging.

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9 hours ago, Bull City said:

an H-Boat or J-24 mast & boom?

Probably a little less than what twolegged said. I know Imcan carry the mast on my own and the stays aren‘t that heavy. 

You know, I‘m at a H-boat race right now. I‘m sure someone knows the rigging weight. Let me know and Give me until the evening in case you haven‘t figured something out already. 

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5 hours ago, allweather said:

You know, I‘m at a H-boat race right now. I‘m sure someone knows the rigging weight. Let me know and Give me until the evening in case you haven‘t figured something out already. 

That would be great - just PM'd you.

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5 hours ago, allweather said:

Probably a little less than what twolegged said. I know I can carry the mast on my own and the stays aren‘t that heavy. 

I'm impressed! :D

image.png.b59de574f28133f666b8a0e3507d3242.png

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

"Carrying" and "throwing" are not quite the same.

You have to carry before you can throw, right?

WTF are we talking about? I can't remember. Oh yeah, how much the rig weighs.

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I'm looking forward to hearing about your use with the new E-power. The lack of noise alone will be like a different world on the water. 

 

I just had a visit from a friend who lives in Houlton Me. (in the 'county') on a pristine lake. 1 mile long. It's so clear he reports you can see the bottom at 60 feet (deepest part). He just bought a Whitehall style rowing boat. 

Then he said several pontoon boats hit it everyday with big engines. The whole fantasy going on in my mind as he described that pristine lake, exploded. I was actually imagining sailing there. 

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28 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

I'm looking forward to hearing about your use with the new E-power. The lack of noise alone will be like a different world on the water. 

 

I just had a visit from a friend who lives in Houlton Me. (in the 'county') on a pristine lake. 1 mile long. It's so clear he reports you can see the bottom at 60 feet (deepest part). He just bought a Whitehall style rowing boat. 

Then he said several pontoon boats hit it everyday with big engines. The whole fantasy going on in my mind as he described that pristine lake, exploded. I was actually imagining sailing there. 

I was imagining seeing the pontoon boats on the bottom while I sailed over them. I like my version better.

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32 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

I'm looking forward to hearing about your use with the new E-power. The lack of noise alone will be like a different world on the water. 

I corresponded via FB with a nice lady who has a Bene 235 that she just launched after having a pod drive & battery just like mine installed.She said, "At low speeds, all you really hear is the water. At moderate speeds, you're aware of the motor, but you can easily carry on a conversation in a normal voice with someone in the cockpit. Even at maximum, it's significantly quieter than the outboard we had on our previous boat."

32 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

Then he said several pontoon boats hit it everyday with big engines. The whole fantasy going on in my mind as he described that pristine lake, exploded. I was actually imagining sailing there. 

I think more and more lakes are going to ban fossil fuel engines. I corresponded with an H-Boat owner in Switzerland who recently installed an electric pod drive, because fossil fuel engines were banned on his lake. Probably won't happen in my lifetime though there is a small-ish lake near me, where I row and paddle, that bans them.

At least there are no wake-boarders on your friend's lake, at least I hope not. Can he petition for speed limits at least?

There's another small lake near me where I like to row (Duke has its boat house there) and they allow power boats. I just have to stop when they go by and wait for their wake to subside.

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That's an interesting point.  Motors are banned on lots of lakes around here.  Just like motorized vehicles are banned on the bike path and sidewalks.  But somehow, owners of electric motorcycles, hoverboards, and their ilk all assume that it doesn't apply to them.  

What motor?  It goes by fairy dust!

I can't imagine the parks having resources to enforce these rules.   

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You joke, but the guys here are free stepping their masts easy peasy. (One or two to hold it, one pulling it up at the jib halyard. No guides or anything.)

Anyway, bit of a long day yesterday and the post race chat was not as fruitful as hoped. Specifically the guys I managed to grab didn‘t know the weight off the top of their hat. (And I didn‘t meet the class head)

Agreement was though that if you really do care about it mast weight is the dominating factor and stays, boom and sails too much of a pain in the ass to figure out when scooting fore or aft by ten centimeters has more of an effect ;)

Not to trivialize your concerns, the proposal is to weigh the mast and place a jug of equivalent water on the cabin floor beneath the step for your trial. Should get you reasonably close without all the hassle or worry of balancing the mast. (Also, technically stepping the mast takes twenty minutes....)

 

and as you guys mentioned, the european(alpine mostly) lakes are rapidly becoming electric or no motor zones. Pretty big shift going on in that regard. Which makes sense as range worries basically aren‘t. Especially as the lakes tend to have a marina every other mile. 

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13 hours ago, Bull City said:

I corresponded via FB with a nice lady who has a Bene 235 that she just launched after having a pod drive & battery just like mine installed.She said, "At low speeds, all you really hear is the water. At moderate speeds, you're aware of the motor, but you can easily carry on a conversation in a normal voice with someone in the cockpit. Even at maximum, it's significantly quieter than the outboard we had on our previous boat."

I think more and more lakes are going to ban fossil fuel engines. I corresponded with an H-Boat owner in Switzerland who recently installed an electric pod drive, because fossil fuel engines were banned on his lake. Probably won't happen in my lifetime though there is a small-ish lake near me, where I row and paddle, that bans them.

At least there are no wake-boarders on your friend's lake, at least I hope not. Can he petition for speed limits at least?

There's another small lake near me where I like to row (Duke has its boat house there) and they allow power boats. I just have to stop when they go by and wait for their wake to subside.

Before moving to Maine we used to sail nearby mountain lakes in Vermont, where we lived. They were tricky sailing as the winds were flukey. But their mountain rimmed forested shores held some of the most memorable sailing motion. Long silent glides that you can only experience on glass flat water with a bit of wind.

Most were hopeless for sailing a small boat. Motorboat wakes overwhelmed the small boats on popular lakes.

One 'mountain lake' a few miles from our home was a favorite. I'd take my two kids (I house husbanded at times while my wife worked) off with a picnic and a boat (Cape Dory 10) in the back of the truck.

We'd sail deep into the forested clefts of that little lake and beach on a remote shore. No houses, no boats (not by rules, it just wasn't popular), nobody on most occasions.

For reference, if you bushwhacked about 10 miles ahead, you'd come out at Killington ski area. 

1939364788_ScanCD10MJKath.jpg.37415f98cb7165682b29f4171949ff9f.jpg

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

One 'mountain lake' a few miles from our home was a favorite. I'd take my two kids (I house husbanded at times while my wife worked) off with a picnic and a boat (Cape Dory 10) in the back of the truck.

1939364788_ScanCD10MJKath.jpg.37415f98cb7165682b29f4171949ff9f.jpg

I'm guessing the young lady on the right is the one who now helps you with boat chores on Christmas? Its amazing how you blink and they're all grown up...I'm so glad that my two grew up around boats. Great memories.

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2 hours ago, Jim in Halifax said:

I'm guessing the young lady on the right is the one who now helps you with boat chores on Christmas? Its amazing how you blink and they're all grown up...I'm so glad that my two grew up around boats. Great memories.

Yes it is. And that is my favorite SIL, one of 7 Irish sisters. 

 

It is truly a gift to be a sailing family. It's not everything in life but the returns are vast and grow with time. 

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13 hours ago, Ginas22 said:

I guy I knew fitted a drive shaft with a prop onto his 55' Garden's rudder. He said it worked really well as a stern thruster. This is probably over 15 years ago. I wonder if Dave patented the concept.

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3 hours ago, Ishmael said:

I guy I knew fitted a drive shaft with a prop onto his 55' Garden's rudder. He said it worked really well as a stern thruster. This is probably over 15 years ago. I wonder if Dave patented the concept.

Be a bit hard to. Sam Devlin had a small daysailer in his DIY catalog at least 15 years ago with an e-drive built into the rudder. And I'm sure other prior examples could be found.

Also it fails the 'non-obvious' part IMO.

FKT

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Be a bit hard to. Sam Devlin had a small daysailer in his DIY catalog at least 15 years ago with an e-drive built into the rudder. And I'm sure other prior examples could be found.

Also it fails the 'non-obvious' part IMO.

FKT

Most things seem obvious once someone else had done them.

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3 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Be a bit hard to. Sam Devlin had a small daysailer in his DIY catalog at least 15 years ago with an e-drive built into the rudder. And I'm sure other prior examples could be found.

Also it fails the 'non-obvious' part IMO.

FKT

I agree on the obvious bit (electric propeller attached to a rudder have been common for ages, the boat I've done my national service on even works like this). Nevertheless anybody seems able to patent about anything and patents seem to mainly be a way to extortionate funds from your competition so possibly the patent would be granted.

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An outdrive or outboard is just a rudder with a propeller on it, so a difficult sell as a patentable idea. Getting a patent is easy, defending the patent in court is the real test.

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I stopped in to look at TONIC a couple of days ago. The pod installation is basically finished. Nothing picture-worthy to show yet. The cabin needs cleaning up, and some panels need to be put back in place.

The attention is now on the port lights. They had been a little leaky, and the mounting system was a bit dodgy, so they're starting from scratch. It'll probably be month-end before the sea trial.

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7 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

Two months!!  Summer is ticking by.

Y'all in the PNW have had a dose of horrible summer weather - much worse than anything I have experienced, except perhaps the boiler room of a destroyer.

Our summers are typically hot (90-95º) and humid, nothing between you and Hell but a screen door as they say.

This summer has been no exception. Although folks do go sailing in the summer, and it is ticking by, it's not my favorite time.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Update:

Well. The "other" stuff has been taking quite a while. The pod itself and components are all done. Port lights are taking a while; some improvements to the electrical stuff are still in the works; and the teak panels covering the battery and stuff need some modification and finishing.

Today, I learned that the transom is going to get sprayed again with Awlgrip, because of some print through, which will add 14 days of cure time.

I am grateful that the yard guy is so conscientiousness. The summer heat and humidity is such that I'm really not missing prime sailing time.

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8 hours ago, Bull City said:

Today, I learned that the transom is going to get sprayed again with Awlgrip, because of some print through, which will add 14 days of cure time.

Even with all that prep(the thick layer you posted a picture of earlier)?
Hm, the picture you posted of the transom after painting does show a little wavy reflections compared to the sides which are mirror shine. Is it that we're talking about?

Great that the yard is doing it on their own initiative. Even if waiting time isn't fun regardless of whether it is good sailing conditions. Much more pleasant than having to argue upon delivery!

I wanted to ask about the portlights why not use countersunk screws for a flush appearance?
I don't have that either and won't change anything until they leak(ten years going strong!), but am curious if it was at all on the table for you?
I am less confident about my idea to tap the GRP and get rid of the nuts too...

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4 hours ago, allweather said:

Even with all that prep(the thick layer you posted a picture of earlier)?
Hm, the picture you posted of the transom after painting does show a little wavy reflections compared to the sides which are mirror shine. Is it that we're talking about? I was surprised, but I think they got the boat out in the sun light and it was apparent. It's a set back time-wise, but I'm glad they're fussy.

Great that the yard is doing it on their own initiative. Even if waiting time isn't fun regardless of whether it is good sailing conditions. Much more pleasant than having to argue upon delivery!

I wanted to ask about the portlights why not use countersunk screws for a flush appearance? 

I don't have that either and won't change anything until they leak(ten years going strong!), but am curious if it was at all on the table for you?
I am less confident about my idea to tap the GRP and get rid of the nuts too...

There are only a few screws so I don't think matters too much visually. When there about 36 screws per side, it was noticeable. I'll be delighted if there's no leaking.

They are backing the screws with inserts, like these, and then applying teak battens as interior trim:

961163483_xmAHdOHTCSpYZcJjw8FAA_thumb_5879.thumb.jpg.3f365b63aa891a87e26ed8d0fab1126e.jpgduAHYwKgQqiVeXY4bQ8r3g_thumb_5878.thumb.jpg.a5ef2ec7b82389d2b50c6601530eda5c.jpg

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11 hours ago, guerdon said:

I got the E prop outboard for the Mull mini-ton,  Froggy Pip of Visalia.   It looks solid and well made.

What size OB? What are the vital statistics of the boat?

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14 minutes ago, guerdon said:

Ranger 22 , 3hp.  To replace a 5hp Evinrude fisherman stroker.  The slip is a tight fit.

I'll be interested to hear how it performs. I had a Torqeedo 1003 (~3 HP) before this. My boat is 3200 lbs., and it worked pretty well.

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6 hours ago, Bull City said:

They are backing the screws with inserts, like these, and then applying teak battens as interior trim:

Inserts! Makes sense and I always forget about them.(or try to because finding stainless ones is always a pain ;) )

I forewent the teak battens for simplicity when redoing the windows and cabins, but still have the dozens of bolts you mentioned. Maybe I‘ll try your method and/or countersinking them when I need to do them again. (Still don‘t trust myself with going just with glue here)

Right now the outside beads starts to show aging(nothing deeper) and will eventually need to be redone. But before that the deck hull joint is scheduled. Yard used some flexible compound (3M something) and that held some years, myself redoing it with sealant wasn‘t as long lived and I‘m aiming for an epoxy or such now so that I‘ll finally have lasting peace on that front. Winter work!

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2 hours ago, allweather said:

Inserts! Makes sense and I always forget about them.(or try to because finding stainless ones is always a pain ;) )

You're not wrong. I machined a bunch of them for a job on my boat, what a PITA. I'd never do it for anyone else, too much fiddly work.

Funny thing though is if you went to someone with a small CNC lathe and bar feeder, wanted 10,000 of them, the price would likely be quite reasonable. Especially if you were happy with 303 stainless.

FKT

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12 hours ago, Bull City said:

Mine is not visible from outside or inside.

Ah, I think mine isn't either and it was a thing the yard just didn't do quite right. Not even sure if the primer isn't continious and it is only the final paint that has that ugly 1-2mm gap.

Basically right where your boat transitions from blue to grey I have a little different shades as well and the edge where the two meet is ugly like if it was taped poorly while painting or something like that.

The yard used some semi flexible compount to run a nice bead all around but that is of course not as long lived as something as long lived as epoxy and paint.(especially in my pretty dirty port)

Long story short, I want to get to where you are in that regard. Could you take a picture of the area for curiousity's sake when you get the chance?

 

10 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

You're not wrong. I machined a bunch of them for a job on my boat, what a PITA. I'd never do it for anyone else, too much fiddly work.

I found some to fix the front hatch on my boat. But at 2Euro per insert not fun, if not out of the ordinary yachting prices. Worse, a british supplier and ever since brexit ordering into europe is a bit of a pain.(avoided untenable taxes by staying below 20 or so euro. Still annoying!)

Got to ask some yards in my area if they don't have a supplier or want to exploit the opportunity :D

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What about a stainless steel wingnut, embedded into some epoxy bog? If you have the space, it might be a cheaper option... but looking at prices on amazon, not much cheaper... You can find