ordkhntr

Center cockpit vs aft cockpit

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It seems everything in life is a compromise. What are the pros/cons to a center cockpit vs an aft cockpit?  Freeboard certainly increases on most center cockpits, but with that you get interior room. But what are the other pros and cons of a center cockpit as they pertain to a cruiser? 

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A centre cockpit is definitive proof to yourself and others that you are middle-aged, and have survived or evaded the buy-a-motorbike phase at the onset of middle age.  This avoids a lot of time-consuming angst, and avoids shock when you find yourself lusting after a rocking chair for your land nest.

The downside is that the centre cockpit provides a bigger bonk bed in the aft cabin, which is a cruel reminder that you are too old to make use of it unless you a) invest in vitamin V and b) take great care not to consume the vitamin before you go on watch. 

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The center cockpit with de rigueur full enclosure is the last phase of sailboating just prior to purchasing a trawler. All those thousands of wonderful boats that never leave the marina are really silent testimony to that fact that not everyone can afford a nice trawler with washer/dryer.

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3DED558A-B0B0-436F-B587-A076A321FB55.jpeg.764007e8a92d0d7b873e7aff89e228a3.jpeg

On the other hand...back in the day racing in style was a thing. A talented designer can make it work and it gets more plausible as you go up in length.

The steering on this Frers beauty is centre cockpit while the aft is either for staring at all the miles being eaten up or to chill at anchor.

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There are few if any "modest" priced new center cockpit boats being built today.   My guess is that those customers who would have bought one in the past have moved on to condomarans.

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Center cockpits typically require steep and deep ladders to access the accommodations.  No aging boomer wants to go down into the ‘cave’.  Condomarans are much more inviting and ‘knee’ friendly...

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Yet another example of taking a really wonderful exciting...sublime[?] thing like sailing a beach cat to the ridiculousness of the condomaran. 

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There are some nice ones out there that would be a good value for a Cruising boat, Kelly Peterson 46 etc.

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Volcano is a 60'er, IIRC. 

On smaller boats, pushing the cockpit forward puts it in the wet zone for bow spray, hence the need or those giant, ugly dodger/enclosures you see on CC boats. 

12 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

 

The downside is that the centre cockpit provides a bigger bonk bed in the aft cabin, which is a cruel reminder that you are too old to make use of it unless you a) invest in vitamin V and b) take great care not to consume the vitamin before you go on watch. 

On Restive, we have no need for vitamin V as, in addition to the primary  compass at the helm, we carry no fewer than three other compasses.

On boats with no spare compass, it's important to carry Viagra and iron pills, so if you break the compass, you can still find magnetic north. 

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58 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

 it's important to carry Viagra and iron pills, so if you break the compass, you can still find magnetic north. 

I never heard it called that before.

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You can also float your hearing aid on a pool of mineral oil.

May or may not align with magnetic north -- but it's a good way to clean off ear wax. 

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I think CC yachts offer some great advantages beside these -face it- fantasies.

And they don't have to be ugly or look too piled up, but sure, it is much harder to achieve. I think Bob Perry said something about trying not to make it look like a wedding cake. There are good and bad examples. Most times, it won't work well below 40 feet. But the (rare) Najad 410 or the older 380 are very elegant in my view.

CxdxG_pWQAAM24w.jpg

In most circumstances, these 2 metres won't make much of a difference in terms of getting hit by spray. When I'm crewing on a Saare 41 (aft cockpit), I'm happy about it so many times. But the space you gain in a center cockpit is a great plus. The whole layout can be done differently: the galley can go further aft, the access to the engine can be much better. And as most main sheets end up on the aft cabin, you can enclose the cockpit with a tent completly. I'm not sure regarding the benefits in terms of motion and overview. You are more in the midst, but also much higher, so that is probably detrimental. You can have a better look at your sails, but you might also more easily miss what happens behind them... So the interior is the largest advantage. 

I think Saare is currently one of the view yards where you can have an AC and a CC version from the same hull, so you can compare well (same boat, different scales of the drawing).

Saare 41cc

Jetzt auch mit Achtercockpit

I'd take the CC anytime. 

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18 hours ago, ordkhntr said:

 

It seems everything in life is a compromise. What are the pros/cons to a center cockpit vs an aft cockpit?  Freeboard certainly increases on most center cockpits, but with that you get interior room. But what are the other pros and cons of a center cockpit as they pertain to a cruiser? 

Center cockpit gives the boat an engine room

 

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Another thing going for CC boats of a certain LOA is that they line up well for an end boom sheeting set up, out of the cockpit(traveller just aft and outboard), but usually close to the wheel.

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For boats of a certain of age, there were often two hatches in an arrangement perhaps less suited to today's egalitarian society. The aft one went straight from the cockpit to the aft cabin, which was the owner's stateroom. No one used the after hatch except the owner, no matter that you were a family friend of 20 years. He never stood watch, but was generally awake when anything happened. I think it was habits developed running fuel barges across the Pacific in WW2. The crew used the forward hatch which was one of those really steep ladders.  Assuming that we ourselves are now of that age, we now can use the aft companionway. 

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Quite liked our Bristol 45.5 CC (also available as a rear cockpit). You do get a lot of interior space, what you give up are large sail lockers found on many AC boats. Our CC had over 130 storage spaces inside the boat for small to medium-sized things but big things were a problem.

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After centuries of human speculation about the afterlife, the debates are over. We finally have an actual photo of what happens to wicked people after death

1 minute ago, Bull City said:

image.thumb.png.f697b7984c02704364cbe6f2b71165e7.png

 

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On 12/12/2020 at 9:51 PM, ordkhntr said:

 

It seems everything in life is a compromise. What are the pros/cons to a center cockpit vs an aft cockpit?  Freeboard certainly increases on most center cockpits, but with that you get interior room. But what are the other pros and cons of a center cockpit as they pertain to a cruiser? 

Going to windward, a center cockpit boat is wet. The motion is also worse. They are a PITA to dock single-handed, you can't reach the stern lines from the helm. It is harder to design a nice dodger for them that doesn't end up looking like an oxygen tent. The proportions tend to look "off".

On the good side, you get a great engine ROOM vs. an engine stuffed in with inches to spare. You get great privacy with guests or kids at the far end of the boat. For a live-aboard, full canvas makes a great outdoor space. Most of the detractions mentioned above dissipate with size, once you get past 45 feet or so the proportions start to look a lot better and the "center" cockpit can start to come aft some.

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2 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

once you get past 45 feet or so the proportions start to look a lot better

I don't understand your point.

image.png.4adb82c270e8eab496da8702eec6079c.pngimage.png.9897397c04d2bef690ce312d9f84f00f.pngimage.png.69fd1d37a352d52dbddbe14ca54eef1c.png

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Go for a French design :

entiersoir.jpg

Yamaha_29_GA.jpg

Then at least when people from the posh Yacht club insult your boat tastes you can waffle saying that your boat is a spiritual predecessor of the Cigale 14 and the Comet11 which were personal boats of Finot.

 

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A 7m central cockpit that doesn't look bad. This one is a dériveur intégral, not the stiffest boat but quite nice to "gunkhole".

 

ima-catamaran-propulsion-electrique-salo

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Staying with the f

16 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Go for a French design :

entiersoir.jpg

Yamaha_29_GA.jpg

Then at least when people from the posh Yacht club insult your boat tastes you can waffle saying that your boat is a spiritual predecessor of the Cigale 14 and the Comet11 which were personal boats of Finot.

 

That's like a mini version of this...Screen+shot+2018-11-04+at+5.50.40+PM.png

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@Elegua

Nah, you can't compare the two, the amphitrite is full of tortuous shapes like it were the offspring of a Portuguese Gallion and a whale whereas the Yamaha has clean lines drawn by Finot. The Yamaha is like the slightly overweight but very likable girl who attracts lot of boys because she's got lot of character.

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58 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Then at least when people from the posh Yacht club insult your boat tastes you can waffle saying that your boat is a spiritual predecessor of the Cigale 14 and the Comet11 which were personal boats of Finot.

That's a fine spiel, and winding posh yotties is a noble cause.

But a) the Cigale didn't inherit the 17-mile freeboard, and b) that paint job is imperilling my will-to-live

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I can put 3 or 4 grandchildren in the lazarette of my H-Boat. Does that mean I can call it a center cockpit?

 

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53 minutes ago, Bull City said:

I can put 3 or 4 grandchildren in the lazarette of my H-Boat. Does that mean I can call it a center cockpit?

 

Maybe your can call it a centre cockpit.  Or maybe not.  Depends on definitions.

But if you actually store grandchildren in a stern locker, some people might call you things which are even more horrible than "centre cockpit"

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2 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

That's a fine spiel, and winding posh yotties is a noble cause.

But a) the Cigale didn't inherit the 17-mile freeboard, and b) that paint job is imperilling my will-to-live

I did say spiritual predecessor, not blueprint....

What would you expect from the 70s but an outrageous colour scheme ?

I am sure that if you dress 1970s style, you match the boat.

d5c75405e99d067453495b95abe87c5f.jpg

By the way, I think that I've tracked the boat that is on the first picture :

Can be yours for 10 000 € https://www.inautia.fr/bateau-43904112019139757505297991001004.html

Looks a bit sad, some polish is needed!

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On 12/13/2020 at 4:08 PM, TwoLegged said:

The downside is that the centre cockpit provides a bigger bonk bed in the aft cabin, which is a cruel reminder that you are too old to make use of it unless you a) invest in vitamin V and b) take great care not to consume the vitamin before you go on watch. 

I don't know, I was 39 when we got a center cockpit. Seems fine to me. Swedes and their mirror placement tho...

 

IMG_1695.thumb.JPG.f1dd50865a5cd939dd4c8f8dc97db917.JPG

IMG_1709-001.thumb.JPG.92b02f42f17f022e624cb81cc02b73cd.JPG

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2 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

I don't know, I was 39 when we got a center cockpit. Seems fine to me.

That's early-onset middle age, BJ.  But you do seem to have coped very well, despite that ;) 

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28 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

By the way, I think that I've tracked the boat that is on the first picture :

Can be yours for 10 000 € https://www.inautia.fr/bateau-43904112019139757505297991001004.html

Looks a bit sad, some polish is needed!

How much do I have to pay for the opposite, i.e. to guarantee that I never see it again?

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5 hours ago, Bull City said:

Not a thing wrong with this:

image.thumb.png.f697b7984c02704364cbe6f2b71165e7.png

Bull, for posting that, and leading this thread down such a regrettable path, I think you should have to sail one of those off a rocky, shoaling lee shore in 25-30 knots. 

Jeezus people. Some of us are old, and don't have years left for the psychotherapy to recover from looking at some of these things. 

Please, please, nobody post a Buccaneer 325. 

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12 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

How much do I have to pay for the opposite, i.e. to guarantee that I never see it again?

Dunno, get a quote from Dominique Prieur

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17 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Bull, for posting that, and leading this thread down such a regrettable path, I think you should have to sail one of those off a rocky, shoaling lee shore in 25-30 knots. 

Jeezus people. Some of us are old, and don't have years left for the psychotherapy to recover from looking at some of these things. 

Please, please, nobody post a Buccaneer 325. 

Sorry, I'll try to be more careful. I thought it was taken with a trick lens; but apparently not.

46 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

This is my kind of center-cockpit:

Swede 55, right. What a machine!

Center cockpits come in a lot versions: Nice, like the Swede 55, and not so nice, like the S2 8.0C.

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On 12/14/2020 at 2:57 AM, Blue Crab said:

The center cockpit with de rigueur full enclosure is the last phase of sailboating just prior to purchasing a trawler. All those thousands of wonderful boats that never leave the marina are really silent testimony to that fact that not everyone can afford a nice trawler with washer/dryer.

Nonsense. We've sailed our center cockpit halfway around the world.

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4 hours ago, Elegua said:

Staying with the f

That's like a mini version of this...Screen+shot+2018-11-04+at+5.50.40+PM.png

This photo made me retrieve one of the great boat reviews-

https://www.allatsea.net/the-perfect-boat-not/

...What about pig boats? What about boats that don’t sail any better than a half-tide rock? What about boats that make more leeway than headway – that are so ugly that shoreside landlubbers get ill just seeing ‘em sail by? What about those boats?

Let’s take a look at our present boat, as an example. We type these words aboard an Amphitrite 43 by Wauquiez (while awaiting Panama Canal transit). She is almost as wide as she is long; she has so much topside your ears pop climbing aboard. Plus, there’s the transom. It has more area than our storm trysail...

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On 12/13/2020 at 12:37 PM, Matagi said:

I think CC yachts offer some great advantages beside these -face it- fantasies.

And they don't have to be ugly or look too piled up, but sure, it is much harder to achieve. I think Bob Perry said something about trying not to make it look like a wedding cake. There are good and bad examples. Most times, it won't work well below 40 feet. But the (rare) Najad 410 or the older 380 are very elegant in my view.

CxdxG_pWQAAM24w.jpg

In most circumstances, these 2 metres won't make much of a difference in terms of getting hit by spray. When I'm crewing on a Saare 41 (aft cockpit), I'm happy about it so many times. But the space you gain in a center cockpit is a great plus. The whole layout can be done differently: the galley can go further aft, the access to the engine can be much better. And as most main sheets end up on the aft cabin, you can enclose the cockpit with a tent completly. I'm not sure regarding the benefits in terms of motion and overview. You are more in the midst, but also much higher, so that is probably detrimental. You can have a better look at your sails, but you might also more easily miss what happens behind them... So the interior is the largest advantage. 

I think Saare is currently one of the view yards where you can have an AC and a CC version from the same hull, so you can compare well (same boat, different scales of the drawing).

Saare 41cc

Jetzt auch mit Achtercockpit

I'd take the CC anytime. 

We are actually looking at the Najad 391/390. I think they have a pretty slick profile for a cc. 

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41 minutes ago, Panoramix said:
58 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

How much do I have to pay for the opposite, i.e. to guarantee that I never see it again?

Dunno, get a quote from Dominique Prieur

Pano, I dunno whether to laugh at that or curse you.  Good joke, but the Prieur saga is one of the nastier episodes of France's inglorious colonial history

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16 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Nonsense. We've sailed our center cockpit halfway around the world.

Yeah ... betcha the next boat is a power boat. Regardless, what you did makes more sense than needing all that protection for a three hour cruise. 

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Just now, TwoLegged said:

Pano, I dunno whether to laugh at that or curse you.  Good joke, but the Prieur saga is one of the nastier episodes of France's inglorious colonial history

Sadly we've done much worse...

I've always been of the opinion that we mustn't forget past ills to avoid repeating them in the future. Had the perpetrators not been French, I wouldn't have done the joke. ;-) 

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20 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

This photo made me retrieve one of the great boat reviews-

https://www.allatsea.net/the-perfect-boat-not/

...What about pig boats? What about boats that don’t sail any better than a half-tide rock? What about boats that make more leeway than headway – that are so ugly that shoreside landlubbers get ill just seeing ‘em sail by? What about those boats?

Let’s take a look at our present boat, as an example. We type these words aboard an Amphitrite 43 by Wauquiez (while awaiting Panama Canal transit). She is almost as wide as she is long; she has so much topside your ears pop climbing aboard. Plus, there’s the transom. It has more area than our storm trysail...

That's a hilarious review. Wauquiez boats were generally well made and those boats have a reputation of sailing well for what they are. Not to my taste but also not as bad as Pano makes out. 

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1 hour ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Bull, for posting that, and leading this thread down such a regrettable path, I think you should have to sail one of those off a rocky, shoaling lee shore in 25-30 knots. 

Jeezus people. Some of us are old, and don't have years left for the psychotherapy to recover from looking at some of these things. 

Please, please, nobody post a Buccaneer 325. 

I don't know why, but those boats seems to never die. 

"What is dead may never die"

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1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

Where the term "metro sexual" came from:

d5c75405e99d067453495b95abe87c5f.jpg

I wuz there and I can attest that no-one ever wore any of that crap.

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9 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

After centuries of human speculation about the afterlife, the debates are over. We finally have an actual photo of what happens to wicked people after death

9 hours ago, Bull City said:

image.thumb.png.f697b7984c02704364cbe6f2b71165e7.png

 

Aww, don't say that. It's cute! And it's by far the roomiest 26-footer afloat.

The design brief was for a boat that the 3rd or 4th owner, 20+ years down the line, would enjoy it as a trawler after realizing that sails cost a fuckload of money.

FB- Doug

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2 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Nonsense. We've sailed our center cockpit halfway around the world.

And we sailed ours all the way around and enjoyed the boat immensely. 

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1 hour ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:
3 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Nonsense. We've sailed our center cockpit halfway around the world.

And we sailed ours all the way around and enjoyed the boat immensely. 

This is like the Daniel O'Donnell defence, i.e. the logic that because one person once listened to his recordings without going insane, O'Donnell may be called a musician

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This was our first boat before we fell down the wood schooner hole.  The clipper bow is definitely not for everyone, but it was a nice boat.  Large center cockpit, aft double cabin, nice sized salon could seat 6. Super easy boat to sail for a couple who didn't know anything.  Crealock Tiburon 36, alot of boat for it's size. Construction was a little light but other than that no issues.

our first home.jpg

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20 minutes ago, johnsonjay17 said:

One of these races on Galveston Bay Tx. It is definitely a interesting boat.

JJ

Races? What's it rate?

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Center cockpit. Nope. I want to stand at the aft helm while admiring the full length of my ship thrusting into the wet beckoning seas. Is it only me?

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51 minutes ago, El Borracho said:

Center cockpit. Nope. I want to stand at the aft helm while admiring the full length of my ship thrusting into the wet beckoning seas. Is it only me?

Before getting a 45 CC I had a 35 AC. When I went for the sea trial on the 45 I was a bit intimidated but when I stood behind the wheel it was not an issue. Looked like a 35 in front of me and, if I thought about it, with 10 feet following along behind.

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5 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

Yeah ... betcha the next boat is a power boat. Regardless, what you did makes more sense than needing all that protection for a three hour cruise. 

Well yeah, our boat was total overkill for popping out to Block Island. But as center boat in the raft we always won the party.

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5 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

Yeah ... betcha the next boat is a power boat. Regardless, what you did makes more sense than needing all that protection for a three hour cruise. 

I'm only 54, not very likely to go the powerboat yet.

We're planning to spend a few years on land, and the return to see will likely be something different from our current boat.

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59 minutes ago, El Borracho said:

Center cockpit. Nope. I want to stand at the aft helm while admiring the full length of my ship thrusting into the wet beckoning seas. Is it only me?

Some people like to thrust into and some people like to be thrust upon. With a center cockpit, you get the best of both worlds simultaneously. It's all good, unless you're one of those depraved catamaran people who just can't make up their mind.  

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19 minutes ago, IStream said:

Some people like to thrust into and some people like to be thrust upon. With a center cockpit, you get the best of both worlds simultaneously. It's all good, unless you're one of those depraved catamaran people who just can't make up their mind.  

S/V Human Centipede?

Hey, I was nice. No photos or embedded video or horror blind link. It's just the imbd page for the movie. Still maybe NSFW, blerghh.

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How did I get involved in two ass-to-mouth threads inside of a week?

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28 minutes ago, IStream said:

How did I get involved in two ass-to-mouth threads inside of a week?

You're obviously in a bad part of town.

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On 12/13/2020 at 8:57 AM, Blue Crab said:

The center cockpit with de rigueur full enclosure is the last phase of sailboating just prior to purchasing a trawler. All those thousands of wonderful boats that never leave the marina are really silent testimony to that fact that not everyone can afford a nice trawler with washer/dryer.

Cold and wet is overrated.  My days of sitting on the rail in gear are done and now that we cruise full time having shade to hide from the sun is mandatory.  Full enclosures may not be pretty but they are functional.  But ours is removable buy pulling 8 pins, it has lifting points so it can be set on the dock.  So if I ever forget sentence 1 we can go race again.

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2 minutes ago, Bryanjb said:

Cold and wet is overrated.  My days of sitting on the rail in gear are done and now that we cruise full time having shade to hide from the sun is mandatory.  Full enclosures may not be pretty but they are functional.  But ours is removable buy pulling 8 pins, it has lifting points so it can be set on the dock.  So if I ever forget sentence 1 we can go race again.

Some time around 2006 or 2007 we took Evenstar to Provincetown. While we were there, we met up with one of my friends I met racing in the 40.7 fleet at Block Island Race week. Nice folks, they were there on their Beneteau 40.7, a boat I still have fond memories of.

We were leaving the same day to head back through the Cape Cod Canal. For those of you not familiar with it, the CC Canal has currents running up to five knots back and forth as the tide changes. It's not a place you want to catch on the wrong end of the tide, and catching it right means a quick, easy trip. So you plan to hit it at a certain time, no matter what.

Our friends on my former sistership cast off their mooring early, I was drinking my coffee in the cockpit as they cast off and I waved goodbye. We left an hour or so later.

The wind that day was blowing straight from the mouth of the canal, consistently 20+ with gusts, chop and slop. You could sail it, but you'd be tacking all over shit's half acre and it was likely you'd miss the tide. So we motored, dead-nuts upwind into the breeze.

I sat under the hard dodger, wearing a T-shirt and reading a paperback while Evenstar pushed through slop with her weight and power, motoring dead up wind through the 4-5 foot mess.

Eventually we caught up with our friends.

They were both in head to toe foulies. Spray and chop and crap flying everywhere, over the small dodger and into the cockpit. It looked wet, cold miserable and quite unpleasant. Slow, as the steep shitty waves slapped them backwards. I know what that's like, I'd been there and gotten that wet T-shirt years before in my 40.7 a couple of times.

And there but for the grace of Odin go I. But under my hard dodger in my center cockpit, I was warm, snug and dry in the same conditions that were beyond wretched over on the other boat.

I've gotten quite attached to how my dodger looks.

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53 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

But under my hard dodger in my center cockpit, I was warm, snug and dry in the same conditions that were beyond wretched over on the other boat.

Surely your comfort was a product of your hard dodger, not of the center cockpit

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7 hours ago, Ishmael said:
7 hours ago, johnsonjay17 said:

One of these races on Galveston Bay Tx. It is definitely a interesting boat.

JJ

Races? What's it rate?

It rates somewhere on the spectrum between nausea and suicidal ideation

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50 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:
1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

But under my hard dodger in my center cockpit, I was warm, snug and dry in the same conditions that were beyond wretched over on the other boat.

Surely your comfort was a product of your hard dodger, not of the center cockpit

Could be, sure. But the spray patterns are different with you're center than aft.

But this comment was in reply to another about hard dodgers, specifically.

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41 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Surely your comfort was a product of your hard dodger, not of the center cockpit

It is a bit of a tangent but I kind of like that hard dodgers are becoming a necessity on IMOCAs, I think that eventually slick hard dodgers where function (that includes aerodynamics!) wins over form will appear on some cruising boats. On boats like Initiatives coeur they've effectively integrated the soft Bimini with the hard dodger, much slickerer than the monstrosities you see on modern cruising boats.

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9 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

I'm only 54, not very likely to go the powerboat yet.

We're planning to spend a few years on land, and the return to see will likely be something different from our current boat.

Depends on what you want to do. I bought a trawler in my early 40s and cruised part time for about a decade, full time for a bit less than that. Now I'm back to sailing small tippy one-designs, which IMHO is the best bang for the buck while sleeping in a nice comfy home every night.

Horses for courses. A camper van is perfect for what you all are doing now, although a tin skiff on a trailer would add to the adventure IMHO

;)
FB- Doug

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I don't have anything bad to say at all about trawler cruising. We may do that for a Great Loop cruise. I'll stick a Laser on there and get my sailing in ;)

Also I could do with a Landfall 43 CC and I worked on a couple of Amel CC boats I liked, even if the systems were a bit Frenchified.

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4 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I worked on a couple of Amel CC boats I liked, even if the systems were a bit Frenchified.

Made me laugh and wonder what is a "Frenchified system" ?

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On 12/12/2020 at 7:08 PM, TwoLegged said:

A centre cockpit is definitive proof to yourself and others that you are middle-aged, and have survived or evaded the buy-a-motorbike phase at the onset of middle age. 

My center cockpit hauls ass and I'm way past middle age.

whipstaff helm.jpg

12.jpg

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4 minutes ago, oldsurfer said:

My center cockpit hauls ass and I'm way past middle age.

I should have specified that I was talking about leadmines.  Multis raise different issues.

I like the look of your boat.  Can you tell us more about her?

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39 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Made me laugh and wonder what is a "Frenchified system" ?

It has been a long time, but some of the wiring was definitely "different" from what you get used to working on USA built boats. Not a big deal once you get used to it, the worst issue I had with French boats over here was kluged-up half-assed conversions to 120 volt shore power. Then there is the blue/brown color code - if memory serves it is exactly backwards from what you would think. Blue looks like sky and brown looks like ground, but they use blue for ground for some reason :unsure:

* of course an EU person looking at a USA boat would see black wires were either AC hot or DC ground, which can produce some surprises if you connect them all together :o

* this is why ABYC is trying to get everyone to use yellow for DC ground

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On wiring standards, there is the rest of the world then the US so hard to fault them on that.  I worked on a Spanish built French ship for a bit.  Every thing was labled by the Spanish in a literal translation to french, talk about confusion.

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1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

Made me laugh and wonder what is a "Frenchified system" ?

We had a '60s-era Peugeot which featured a bass-ackwards turn-signal/column shift.

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

It has been a long time, but some of the wiring was definitely "different" from what you get used to working on USA built boats. Not a big deal once you get used to it, the worst issue I had with French boats over here was kluged-up half-assed conversions to 120 volt shore power. Then there is the blue/brown color code - if memory serves it is exactly backwards from what you would think. Blue looks like sky and brown looks like ground, but they use blue for ground for some reason :unsure:

* of course an EU person looking at a USA boat would see black wires were either AC hot or DC ground, which can produce some surprises if you connect them all together :o

* this is why ABYC is trying to get everyone to use yellow for DC ground

I think that it is more European than French, I was half expecting you to tell me that our boats are a bit "agricultural", I am always amazed at the quantity of kit bolted to the decks of foreign boats. But then Amel has always done boats that are very complicated to French standards.

For single phase AC, we have three wires so although blue might appear like ground saying it is ground will frighten a French sparky :
Red or brown or black (or possibly a weird color) is phase, that is the hot one as red is hot!
Blue is always neutral
Yellow and green is earth.

For DC we have 2 wires
Red : +
Black : - and is earthed

120AC was dropped in the 50s or may be 70s, so nobody here has a clue how to make it work!!!

There are many colours possible for the DC phase as a consequence of harmonisation ISTR. Pre 1980s or 70s, it is pre European normalisation and circuits will be all weird. If you touch electrics of an old French farm that hasn't been renovated, you will soon find that red = earth BEWARE!!! At my grand parents' a fuse was basically 2 studs with some lead wires threaded around them, if it blew my grandpa would just come to the conclusion that one extra turn was needed! Never took fire thank god.

If you want to really confuse a Frenchman with electrics, you give him an old British car or motorbike. Mind you, I never dared to touch the wiring of the house I had in the UK as it looked really complicated and anyway it is illegal unless you get an electrician to certify what you've done afterward! If you pay him, you might as well let him do the work.

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The old fuse wire system! One cool thing was a roll of fuse wire could recreate any fuse, it is X amps per turn. The bad thing is, as your grandparents found out, nothing stops you from adding extra turns :o

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:
14 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

I'm only 54, not very likely to go the powerboat yet.

We're planning to spend a few years on land, and the return to see will likely be something different from our current boat.

Depends on what you want to do. I bought a trawler in my early 40s and cruised part time for about a decade, full time for a bit less than that. Now I'm back to sailing small tippy one-designs, which IMHO is the best bang for the buck while sleeping in a nice comfy home every night.

Horses for courses. A camper van is perfect for what you all are doing now, although a tin skiff on a trailer would add to the adventure IMHO

;)
FB- Doug

I realized a long time ago that, around here, if cruising and exploring is your goal, a powerboat is way better than sail.

A friend is strictly a cruiser - never unties his boat for less than a 3 day cruise. I'd guess that at least 70% of the time I've been on his boat it's been under power.

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29 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I realized a long time ago that, around here, if cruising and exploring is your goal, a powerboat is way better than sail.

A friend is strictly a cruiser - never unties his boat for less than a 3 day cruise. I'd guess that at least 70% of the time I've been on his boat it's been under power.

I think the whole trawler for old people thing is backwards. When I am retired I can wait for a front and do all my cruising beam or broad reaching in a glorious 15-25 knot breeze. While still employed I need to get somewhere when I need to be there if I want to see anything and that frequently lines up with no wind :(

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7 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I think the whole trawler for old people thing is backwards. When I am retired I can wait for a front and do all my cruising beam or broad reaching in a glorious 15-25 knot breeze. While still employed I need to get somewhere when I need to be there if I want to see anything and that frequently lines up with no wind :(

When I go to the Dark Side it won't be to go 9 knots. 

I told that to a nice couple with a big assed Nordhavn this past summer. They corrected me. They do 8. I do 7-8 under sail easily. 

When I get a motor boat the point will be to turn overnights into day trips. 18-20 knots. I'll cruise slower most of the time, but the speed needs to be there when I want it.

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2 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

When I go to the Dark Side it won't be to go 9 knots. 

I told that to a nice couple with a big assed Nordhavn this past summer. They corrected me. They do 8. I do 7-8 under sail easily. 

When I get a motor boat the point will be to turn overnights into day trips. 18-20 knots. I'll cruise slower most of the time, but the speed needs to be there when I want it.

This.

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