LordBooster

IOR landfills?

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12 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

In this thread from 2010 it was claimed Coog II was still  around somewhere North of the border: 

 

Coog II is certainly his best known IOR design - having beaten Stars & Stripes in the '84 CC.

Link here to an article on her and the '84 CC:https://books.google.ca/books?id=QpuU2_vERnMC&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=dobroth+coog+ii+sailboat&source=bl&ots=ghHegPko4L&sig=ACfU3U1Yb2KDHeulQI2DnsRAcrhz1hcSow&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjL4L_9x67uAhUuGDQIHRegAOYQ6AEwEHoECBcQAg#v=onepage&q=dobroth coog ii sailboat&f=false

Wasn't it "Coug" as in short for "Cougar?"  I think I remember seeing that boat racing in Hamilton Harbour during one of my summers "working" at McMaster U.

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21 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Wasn't it "Coug" as in short for "Cougar?"  I think I remember seeing that boat racing in Hamilton Harbour during one of my summers "working" at McMaster U.

That is what one would think and that is how most people recall it like that, but the odd spelling stood out in my mind at the time.  There were two of them - the first one was a Peterson that I think won the '80 CC

Also, the linked article refers to her as Coog,  although it should be Coog II

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2014-09-28%2B14.24.36.jpg

Google - Fu comes up with this in the image search.

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This must be Coug II?  The origin of this picture says she was a Wiggers 41 from 1981.  

p6190003coug4.jpg

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On 1/20/2021 at 3:43 PM, ROADKILL666 said:

She is definitely ior 

a 43 that rates PHRF 43 .. not bad for her times thats for sure. me likey.

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39 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

This must be Coug II?  The origin of this picture says she was a Wiggers 41 from 1981.  

p6190003coug4.jpg

This is the original Coug, Peterson 41, sail 74168, second boat built by Wiggers Yachts, won the Canada's Cup in 1981.  I did a lot of miles on this boat 10-15 years ago.  She's still floating but in a pretty sorry state now...

 

42 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

2014-09-28%2B14.24.36.jpg

Google - Fu comes up with this in the image search.

This is the second Coug, Dobroth 42, sail 84168, won the Canada's Cup in 1984.  Renamed Red Line and disappeared from the Lake Ontario scene about twenty years ago, dunno where she ended up.

 

1 hour ago, 12 metre said:

That is what one would think and that is how most people recall it like that, but the odd spelling stood out in my mind at the time.  There were two of them - the first one was a Peterson that I think won the '80 CC

Also, the linked article refers to her as Coog,  although it should be Coog II

 

1 hour ago, 12 metre said:

That is what one would think and that is how most people recall it like that, but the odd spelling stood out in my mind at the time.  There were two of them - the first one was a Peterson that I think won the '80 CC

Also, the linked article refers to her as Coog,  although it should be Coog II

Both boats were Cougs, in reference to owner Tony Ronza's Canadian footwear company Cougar Shoes (since 1948).

Cheers!

 

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Alright, I stand corrected. 

Funny how the article had the same brain fart as I did:P

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If I have it correctly, there were at least two other Cougs before the Peterson 2 Tonner. There was a C&C40 and possibly a 36 before that.

RHYC had a few interesting programs, Don Green with Evergreen and then the coug 2 * Canada Cup....

another good Dobreth was Tobasco for John Ward, which won just about every regatta she did. 

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8 hours ago, MKF said:

If I have it correctly, there were at least two other Cougs before the Peterson 2 Tonner. There was a C&C40 and possibly a 36 before that.

RHYC had a few interesting programs, Don Green with Evergreen and then the coug 2 * Canada Cup....

another good Dobreth was Tobasco for John Ward, which won just about every regatta she did. 

Good news. Any idea about a Dobroth design Monoply/Monopoly?

 

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On 1/8/2021 at 5:49 PM, 12 metre said:

There is a Silver Apple for sale again in Oregon, although I don't think it is one of the Ron Holland ones - the stern and transom look all wrong.  Maybe a N/M? 

Asking price down to $6k.  A lot of work to finish this project off - but without the rig and sails - it puts her in the category of "free is too much"  

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/d/portland-1981one-ton-class-ior-sailboat/7258311294.html

Silver Apple.jpg

That looks like Feldsine's Choate 40, it was brought to Seattle at the end of the ior days and never raced that I recall.

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13 minutes ago, See Level said:

That looks like Feldsine's Choate 40, it was brought to Seattle at the end of the ior days and never raced that I recall.

I think you nailed it. https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/choate-40

I wasn't aware Kaufman designed any of the Choates. The cabin appears to shorter than shown in the drawing but to me the transom definitely looks more like a Kaufman than a Holland, Peterson, or even N/M (which was my original guess).

choate_40_kaufman_drawing.jpg

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10 hours ago, MKF said:

If I have it correctly, there were at least two other Cougs before the Peterson 2 Tonner. There was a C&C40 and possibly a 36 before that.

RHYC had a few interesting programs, Don Green with Evergreen and then the coug 2 * Canada Cup....

another good Dobreth was Tobasco for John Ward, which won just about every regatta she did. 

You're right, now I recall something about Ronza having another boat(s?) named Coug before the two CC boats.

John Warde's Tabasco was late 80s Dobroth 38, also built by Wiggers, and one of the first designs on Lake Ontario optimized for IMS.  It was a wonderful boat to sail and John ran a great program.  I was lucky to join the crew for a few regattas and they not only won, but had fun doing it!  After a few years the boat went to Oakville as Step On It, the best thing I remember about her then was that Ron MacLean was part of Pat Festing-Smith's crew.

I think Step On It ended up in Nova Scotia, was damaged on land at some point, not sure what happened after that.

Cheers!

 

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2 hours ago, 12 metre said:

I think you nailed it. https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/choate-40

I wasn't aware Kaufman designed any of the Choates. The cabin appears to shorter than shown in the drawing but to me the transom definitely looks more like a Kaufman than a Holland, Peterson, or even N/M (which was my original guess).

choate_40_kaufman_drawing.jpg

 

Surprised no one has called me out on this yet.

Yet another brain fart...the CF-27 of course:blink:

Maybe the best light air PHRF bandit you can find.  Just ask Dennis Conner.

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20 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

 

Surprised no one has called me out on this yet.

Yet another brain fart...the CF-27 of course:blink:

Maybe the best light air PHRF bandit you can find.  Just ask Dennis Conner.

Thanks, Scott Kaufman it is.

 

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The seattle Apple boat is not a Choate 40.  My family had one for 10 years, transom shape very different.

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3 hours ago, See Level said:

 Choate 40

Maybe.  But not sure.

I spent a lot of time on Choate-40s in SoCal, including hull #1 and the one Dennis built for himself.  there were cabin-top versions and flush-deck versions, but that doesn't look like any of the Choate-40s I knew of...  Transom isn't right.

....but I don't have any better ideas, other than that the cabin-top still looks NM-ish to me.

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37 minutes ago, sledracr said:

Maybe.  But not sure.

I spent a lot of time on Choate-40s in SoCal, including hull #1 and the one Dennis built for himself.  there were cabin-top versions and flush-deck versions, but that doesn't look like any of the Choate-40s I knew of...  Transom isn't right.

....but I don't have any better ideas, other than that the cabin-top still looks NM-ish to me.

Back to Carl Schumacher and a sister to Wall Street Duck?

 

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half-tonner designed by ?

https://www.nettivene.com/purjevene/offshore/827125

“Unfinished ground damage project. Once upon a time there were top boats in competitions. There are e.g. In the 100-year publication of the Turku Yacht Club. Half a ton. Even make a floating sauna or put it in competition. For a willing additional price, the engine still has Yanmar 2 gm, shaft and folding propeller, boom, mast, catches and rods, lead keel, rudder, levanki. The hull is quite finished, but still needs a bit of lamination if you plan to sail. Advice and gasti on the trade.”

 

half3109ccb0ffda2f9d-large.thumb.jpg.ee283d6c1f3ed9d71443adfc56f14329.jpg

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14 hours ago, sledracr said:

Maybe.  But not sure.

I spent a lot of time on Choate-40s in SoCal, including hull #1 and the one Dennis built for himself.  there were cabin-top versions and flush-deck versions, but that doesn't look like any of the Choate-40s I knew of...  Transom isn't right.

....but I don't have any better ideas, other than that the cabin-top still looks NM-ish to me.

I"m tellin' ya... Geraghty N/M 41 w/ deck mods...

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18 minutes ago, JoeO said:

I"m tellin' ya... Geraghty N/M 41 w/ deck mods...

And I'm tellin' ya that even the pushpit is identical to that of Wall Street Duck...

 

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34 minutes ago, LordBooster said:

And I'm tellin' ya that even the pushpit is identical to that of Wall Street Duck...

and I'm tellin' ya there's no such word as "pushpit" <lol>.  the stern pulpit, though, does look like WSD's.

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2 hours ago, sledracr said:

and I'm tellin' ya there's no such word as "pushpit" <lol>.  the stern pulpit, though, does look like WSD's.

and I'm tellin' ya there's such a word as "pushpit" in Swedish (depite looking somewhat English)!

 

 

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14 minutes ago, LordBooster said:
2 hours ago, sledracr said:

and I'm tellin' ya there's no such word as "pushpit" <lol>.  the stern pulpit, though, does look like WSD's.

and I'm tellin' ya there's such a word as "pushpit" in Swedish (depite looking somewhat English)!

Irregardless

- DSK

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Irregardless

- DSK

let's refer back....

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googling "nelson marek 41" turns up this.  Looking like a strong possibility.

nm-41.jpg.d0ec7719c6b1fbde4678a6e4c37996df.jpg

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54 minutes ago, sledracr said:

googling "nelson marek 41" turns up this.  Looking like a strong possibility.

nm-41.jpg.d0ec7719c6b1fbde4678a6e4c37996df.jpg

Looks like a fun one

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1 hour ago, sledracr said:

googling "nelson marek 41" turns up this.  Looking like a strong possibility.

nm-41.jpg.d0ec7719c6b1fbde4678a6e4c37996df.jpg

Yes.

Appears evident it is not a Choate 40.  Below is Hurrah, a Choate 40 that is or was for sale.  Stern counter is narrower and rounder.  I typically associate Kaufman's with a flatter and more angular counter - such as on the Kaufman 46 below and Gauntlet (ex-Vanina a 44 ft Italian '79 AC boat).  Almost have a soft chine, definitely a tighter radius at the turn to the counter.

Oh yeah found a decent photo of WSD in an old thread here.  Definitely not a sistership.  It has the Express 37 transom portlights as I thought, but the stern is also more angular with a soft chine similar to the bigger Kaufmans.

From the sailing photo of WSD below, it appears she was designed more for SF Bay conditions.  Sail plan looks fairly squat to be competitive in typical PNW conditions.

Hurrah.jpg

886640.jpg

Gauntlet Milwaukee.jpg

Vanina AC79_3.jpg

WSD.jpg

947406825_IMG_20200113_1640083982.thumb.jpg.a417d9ec3d44fddc3fa31d916157777e.jpg

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4 hours ago, sledracr said:

and I'm tellin' ya there's no such word as "pushpit" <lol>.  the stern pulpit, though, does look like WSD's.

Well, not exactly...The real difference is that the  "Stern Pulpit" is typically reserved for New England Episcopalian ministers.  The "Bow Pulpit" is more for the genuflecting, high-church Presbyterians.

The "Pushpit" is, well, located on the banks of the River Styx.  Proper place for the afterguard, IMHO.

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3 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

 

886640.jpg

Hey...That's Hat Island, where I come from.

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26 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Hey...That's Hat Island, where I come from.

It was for sale last year at a brokerage in Everett.  $15k asking at the time.  Teak decks though.

I was looking at the Wylie 34 that was for sale there as well (pre border closure of course).  Normally not much of a fan of the Wylie, but this one had an Andrews bulb keel refitted to it as well as a Riptide 35 rudder.  Almost new Quantum upwind inventory.  Only drawback was it had a dead 2GM but fortunately I have a good 2GMF.  Only asking $9900

Almost got a deal done.  Sticking point in negotiations was the main was advertised as a Quantum Technora membrane sail - but was clearly dacron or similar.  Boat had been on the market for at least 6 months so figured I had the upper hand.  Unfortunately, it was also Seattle Boat Show time (everyone gets boat horny) so when I called back a week later to agree to the counter offer I was informed the boat had been sold out from under me.

Lesson learned?  Naaah...I'd do the same again.

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22 hours ago, Schnick said:

The seattle Apple boat is not a Choate 40.  My family had one for 10 years, transom shape very different.

Yup!

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3 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Below is Hurrah, a Choate 40 that is or was for sale. 

Sold last month.  And, according to the seller at least, end of an era - Hurrah was the last Choate-40 still being raced (or last one with a PHRF rating, your choice).  Buyer plans to turn it into a cruiser.

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3 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Kaufman 46 below

 

886640.jpg

What's that boat's story?  It was tied up outside Anthony's (restaurant) in Everett for a couple of years, and has been on the hard for a long time.  But doesn't look neglected.

Good looking boat, although my dockside impression was that either she's massively over-rigged, or built like a tank.  The deck gear is all a grade or two beefier than I would expect for a boat of that size.

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1 hour ago, sledracr said:

 

What's that boat's story?  It was tied up outside Anthony's (restaurant) in Everett for a couple of years, and has been on the hard for a long time.  But doesn't look neglected.

Good looking boat, although my dockside impression was that either she's massively over-rigged, or built like a tank.  The deck gear is all a grade or two beefier than I would expect for a boat of that size.

Don't really know other than it was for sale in Everett with the same brokerage that had the Wylie for sale.  Was listed at $15k but I believe has sold.  Flush deck.  Interior looked fairly good in the photos as well.  Definitely not stripped out.  Probably would make a great PNW cruiser/racer if you could afford the upkeep.

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5 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Don't really know other than it was for sale in Everett with the same brokerage that had the Wylie for sale.  Was listed at $15k but I believe has sold.  Flush deck.  Interior looked fairly good in the photos as well.  Definitely not stripped out.  Probably would make a great PNW cruiser/racer if you could afford the upkeep.

Wylie, superb lines. Animal Farm!

 

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Roy quarter-tonner designed by Guy-Christer Lönngren lifted from a depth of 52 meters

https://arhiiv.saartehaal.ee/2016/09/13/uppunud-jaht-tosteti-valja-52-meetri-sugavusest/

“The yacht was found on the seabed by the Maritime Administration, and its Latvian owner Arnis Krauklis decided to raise the yacht if possible. Krauklis told the Voices of the Islands that although it was not a million-dollar thing, his heart and soul remained there.

According to him, the yacht has been in a fairly good condition on the seabed for a month. The seabed was sandy and clayey and no significant injuries were caused by the yacht drowning. The yacht sank due to a breakdown and bad weather conditions. The team was rescued.”

 

jaht-468x312.jpg.1b69cf8a8e96a617dcfaa1b93992e354.jpg

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46 minutes ago, LordBooster said:

Roy quarter-tonner designed by Guy-Christer Lönngren lifted from a depth of 52 meters

https://arhiiv.saartehaal.ee/2016/09/13/uppunud-jaht-tosteti-valja-52-meetri-sugavusest/

“The yacht was found on the seabed by the Maritime Administration, and its Latvian owner Arnis Krauklis decided to raise the yacht if possible. Krauklis told the Voices of the Islands that although it was not a million-dollar thing, his heart and soul remained there.

According to him, the yacht has been in a fairly good condition on the seabed for a month. The seabed was sandy and clayey and no significant injuries were caused by the yacht drowning. The yacht sank due to a breakdown and bad weather conditions. The team was rescued.”

 

jaht-468x312.jpg.1b69cf8a8e96a617dcfaa1b93992e354.jpg

Glad the crew was rescued and the boat salvaged. Classic looking little Quarter Pounder there, I'd love something like that.

One of the points of these boats is that they were (in theory) supposed to be ocean racers. Capable and seaworthy. I wonder what the chain of events leading to the sinking was? In these photos, the boat doesn't look damaged.

FB- Doug

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24 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Glad the crew was rescued and the boat salvaged. Classic looking little Quarter Pounder there, I'd love something like that.

One of the points of these boats is that they were (in theory) supposed to be ocean racers. Capable and seaworthy. I wonder what the chain of events leading to the sinking was? In these photos, the boat doesn't look damaged.

FB- Doug

I agree with you the chain of events leading to sinking is poorly documented "The yacht sank due to a breakdown and bad weather conditions." The only photo revealing anything about structural damage is the guy holding a some part in his hand, maybe part of rudder shaft housing. I have mailed the designer Guy-Christer Lönngren. Maybe he knows more.

IMG_6777.jpg

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4 minutes ago, LordBooster said:

I agree with you the chain of events leading to sinking is poorly documented "The yacht sank due to a breakdown and bad weather conditions." The only photo revealing anything about structural damage is the guy holding a some part in his hand, maybe part of rudder shaft housing. I have mailed the designer Guy-Christer Lönngren. Maybe he knows more.

IMG_6777.jpg

Ah so, I saw that pic but skipped past it too quickly. That does look like it could be a broken-out rudder post.

That would do it. Especially in heavy weather.

FB- Doug

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22 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Ah so, I saw that pic but skipped past it too quickly. That does look like it could be a broken-out rudder post.

That would do it. Especially in heavy weather.

FB- Doug

OK

 

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Ah so, I saw that pic but skipped past it too quickly. That does look like it could be a broken-out rudder post.

That would do it. Especially in heavy weather.

FB- Doug

I have never understood why designers and/or owners design/build collision bulkheads into the bow but not a bulkhead in the stern designed to prevent the boat from sinking if the rudder post is ripped off like this.  Every boat I have been offshore on would sink if the rudder hit something hard.  

With modern materials a full-width bulkhead high enough to stop the water from flowing to the rest of the boat would weigh almost nothing.

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3 hours ago, Rain Man said:

I have never understood why designers and/or owners design/build collision bulkheads into the bow but not a bulkhead in the stern designed to prevent the boat from sinking if the rudder post is ripped off like this.  Every boat I have been offshore on would sink if the rudder hit something hard.  

With modern materials a full-width bulkhead high enough to stop the water from flowing to the rest of the boat would weigh almost nothing.

That's my biggest fear.

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4 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

That's my biggest fear.

Yeah, it's the end-game of my biggest fear, which starts with a deadhead (waterlogged log, there's lots of them around here) coming up out of the depths and cracking the bottom or ripping off the rudder..

Ugh.

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18 minutes ago, sledracr said:

Yeah, it's the end-game of my biggest fear, which starts with a deadhead (waterlogged log, there's lots of them around here) coming up out of the depths and cracking the bottom or ripping off the rudder..

Ugh.

I hit one at 7 knots at full stop and was like hitting a rock. But I was in Howe Sound and I was in 600ft of water. I have modified deep keel from standard. The fix was done in four days and pretty cheap IMHO. Lesser boats like the crop of Bunters and the ilk they would have sunk or written off. We have a huge debris issue and and 16' tides at times. And I'm very wary of this but?

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20 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

Lesser boats like the crop of Bunters and the ilk they would have sunk or written off.

Yeah.  I'm continually happy with how well my boat (mid-80s Ericson) is built.  Good solid-layup hull, plus structural grid, no chopper-gun crap, no core in the topsides, etc.  The rudder-post is a known weak-spot on the wheel-steered boats, because it is (obviously) discontinuous for the quadrant, but...whatever.  

Overall, I'm quite "comfortable", but don't want to have that comfort tested.

What's funny is I used to jump on Other People's Boats for deliveries, turn the key and head for open water without giving any of this (construction quality, etc) a moment's thought.  Must've been that "I'm immortal" thing we all had as teenagers.

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2 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

That's my biggest fear.

Yes, I agree. What can be the reason if not money? And now a days legal aspects due to health-considerations (close compartments and no polyester). In an ideal situation the two hull-halves should have bulkheads laminated to the individual halves before detaching them from the molds/female variant. Otherwise, the hull-halves will "sprung" and get longer and with less width compared to the drawings. Hereby, tolerances are kept and the deck fits normally well. For custom made yachts it should be possible to put in an extra bulkhead at the stern region to solve the "biggest fear" previously stated. However, here lack of experience of how this bulkhead influences the shape of the hull after mold/female variant removal complicates everything. One risk that the hull will be somewhat distorted in the region of these bulkheads. A safer method may be to laminate that extra bulkhead later, if the health-requirements can be met. Then the the bulkheads are laminated together at the center (and later any openings can be made). However, for production yachts this is often rationalized by various methods. For instance, comparatively soft mold/female variant attached to metal rigs. The rig is removed first from the previously mentioned molds. And then the hull-halves from the individual molds are separated. After that the hull-halves are laminated (or even glued) together. To make things worse, often gets hull and deck simply screwed (not bolted) together without any washer or nut at the under-side, screws that may be called "wood-crews" are adopted. Using that method pieces of plywood are incorporated to the hull (upper) flange(s) at certain distance apart (sometimes 20cm apart). Then simply the "wood-crews" join deck and roof together using electric screwdrivers. Of course, inner modules are placed/glued into the hull before all this. To ask some worker to crawl into this construction and laminate the desired "biggest-fear" bulkheads is probably not legal due to health-considerations. 

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5 hours ago, LordBooster said:

To ask some worker to crawl into this construction and laminate the desired "biggest-fear" bulkheads is probably not legal due to health-considerations. 

It should be ok if the tabbing is epoxy and a fan is used to circulate air through the stern area.  With polyester I would want a positive-pressure mask.  Still way better than crawling back there when it is full of water and the boat is sinking to try to save the boat.

Even better to laminate it in before the hull and deck are joined.  It does not have to be full height, it just needs to be well above the waterline with the boat fully loaded and the compartment full of water.  In most boats it would only need to be 50 cm high or so.  It would buy time for the crew to mitigate the problem, such as dropping the rudder out of the boat completely and wrapping a sail over the hole, or stuffing rags into the breach.

I suggested to the owners of the Vic-Maui boats I was on to add this bulkhead.  None did so.  I went anyway.

 

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23 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Still way better than crawling back there when it is full of water and the boat is sinking

Heh.  Closest I ever came to dying on a boat.  I was working at a boatyard in Newport Beach, doing fiberglass work.  Sailboat came in which had somehow managed to tear a cleat off the aft corner of the deck.  Went to see what the inside looked like, which involved doing a whole series of worm-wiggles and boat-yoga moves to get all the way back up in the corner... and couldn't quite get there.  Happily, there was "something solid" I could put my foot on and press against to shove myself into place.

Turns out that "something" was a 1-1/2" thru-hull, and when I shoved it broke off.  Now there's a 1-1/2" geyser of water coming in and no quick way to un-yoga myself out of the corner I was wedged in.

Apparently I yelled loud enough to get some attention, and next thing I knew the boat was being craned out of the water. 

Notwithstanding the fact that I was at a dock and someone would "probably" have noticed the boat before it sank.... without that lift-out, I was going down.  Ugh

("plan B" was to use the tools I had with me to see if I could destroy enough of that already-compromised corner to make a hole big enough to get out.  Happily I didn't have to test that plan)

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7 hours ago, sledracr said:

Now there's a 1-1/2" geyser of water coming in and no quick way to un-yoga myself out of the corner I was wedged in.

O dear!

 

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8 hours ago, sledracr said:
8 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Still way better than crawling back there when it is full of water and the boat is sinking

Heh.  Closest I ever came to dying on a boat.  I was working at a boatyard in Newport Beach, doing fiberglass work.  Sailboat came in which had somehow managed to tear a cleat off the aft corner of the deck.  Went to see what the inside looked like, which involved doing a whole series of worm-wiggles and boat-yoga moves to get all the way back up in the corner... and couldn't quite get there.  Happily, there was "something solid" I could put my foot on and press against to shove myself into place.

Turns out that "something" was a 1-1/2" thru-hull, and when I shoved it broke off.  Now there's a 1-1/2" geyser of water coming in and no quick way to un-yoga myself out of the corner I was wedged in.

Apparently I yelled loud enough to get some attention, and next thing I knew the boat was being craned out of the water. 

Notwithstanding the fact that I was at a dock and someone would "probably" have noticed the boat before it sank.... without that lift-out, I was going down.  Ugh

("plan B" was to use the tools I had with me to see if I could destroy enough of that already-compromised corner to make a hole big enough to get out.  Happily I didn't have to test that plan)

That sounds like a Houdini escapade.

FB- Doug

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22 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Ah so, I saw that pic but skipped past it too quickly. That does look like it could be a broken-out rudder post.

That would do it. Especially in heavy weather.

FB- Doug

Getting to the hole left when that fell out of that boat would be a bit tense. I think I'd go for the life jacket / life raft option, like those chaps did.

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3 hours ago, European Bloke said:

Getting to the hole left when that fell out of that boat would be a bit tense. I think I'd go for the life jacket / life raft option, like those chaps did.

Yea, maybe the kind of rudder design of Bruce Farr is somewhat safer. Perhaps, the rudder post gets better structural integrity:

http://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/E15.htm

farr141844660_10223825381158708_2742526167927807700_o.thumb.jpg.585d716a8c44cbff0825da850918c7d0.jpg

 

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Zeemin minitonner designed by van de Stadt

https://www.tori.fi/varsinais-suomi/Van_de_Stadt_Teemin_76533444.htm?ca=18&w=3

“Unfinished project. Fiberglass coated plywood frame without paint surface. Length 6.5m Width 2.5m Draft 1.25m Weight 1000kg Sail area 22 m2. Fine teak deck and sitlora. Plexiglass and hatch. Lead filled stainless steel keel. H-boat mast and H-boat ladies big and focal. Finished rudder. Outboard rack. Railing. Comprehensive range of fittings.”

vandestadt7625234754.jpg.3e6d0c316c5bea946b56cdfd20557701.jpg

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Looks like a worthwhile project for a few $hundred.

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On 1/24/2021 at 6:10 AM, LordBooster said:

I agree with you the chain of events leading to sinking is poorly documented "The yacht sank due to a breakdown and bad weather conditions." The only photo revealing anything about structural damage is the guy holding a some part in his hand, maybe part of rudder shaft housing. I have mailed the designer Guy-Christer Lönngren. Maybe he knows more.

IMG_6777.jpg

Who ever tabbed that fitting in must have done it on Friday about 4:55 and was really anxious to meet his dealer.

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34 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Looks like a worthwhile project for a few $hundred.

You mean the few hundred they pay you to haul it away?  

What are " H-boat ladies big and focal."  Or do I really want to know?  

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1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

You mean the few hundred they pay you to haul it away?  

What are " H-boat ladies big and focal."  Or do I really want to know?  

Ask VWAP

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2 hours ago, Left Shift said:
2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Looks like a worthwhile project for a few $hundred.

You mean the few hundred they pay you to haul it away?  

What are " H-boat ladies big and focal."  Or do I really want to know?  

That Van DeStadt looks like a restoration project, not an uncompleted kit. The starboard side has some bad patches and the interior looks like it was finished nicely, aged in place, then partly ripped out.

Potentially a very nice boat... how much is "potential" worth?

FB- Doug

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2 hours ago, Left Shift said:

What are " H-boat ladies big and focal."  Or do I really want to know?

Really funny what the automatic translator can come up with. Finnish to English. But it is almost worse without translation: "H-veneen masto ja H-veneen hyvät iso-ja fokka."

 

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8 minutes ago, LordBooster said:

Really funny what the automatic translator can come up with. Finnish to English. But it is almost worse without translation: "H-veneen masto ja H-veneen hyvät iso-ja fokka."

 

 

I tried Google translate and got this: H-boat mast and H-boat ladies big and jib

By looking at photos of the van de Stadt link one can conclude that the "ladies big" means mainsail. Kind of unfortunate when Pamela Anderson...:

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamela_Anderson

 

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Build yourself a brand new 50 year old boat.

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Scenario Act Two 3/4-tonner designed by Rob Humphreys

http://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/Trois Quart/Scenario Act 2.htm

"2020 Juin, Facebook: "If anyone knows anyone that might be interested, this famous Humphreys 3/4 tonner is derelict on a drive way in yorkshire and free to any good home. Bare hull, no keel, few fittings, but worth restoring. Epoxy/foam build, really ahead of its time. It would be a complete resto but with the age allowance could make a competitive boat again. Message me for any more info, but only serious enquiries please the owner has been messed around endlessly so only get in touch if youre thinking of hiring a lowloader to come and get it after Covid restrictions are lifted"
Dan Searjeant "No need to be slagging off the boat, the guy that owns it or anyone contemplating taking it on. We all know how much of a project something like this would be and how much it will cost and how little financial sense boat projects make in general. Im not trying to get rid of it, im sharing the knowledge incase someone out there wants to have a go at it before the owner cuts it up thats all. I dont own it, im not responsible for it and have no interest in it, just recognise that it is a successful 1 off by a famous designer and would be a shame to be cut up" "

ScenarioAct%202.jpg

 

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16 hours ago, LordBooster said:

Zeemin minitonner designed by van de Stadt

https://www.tori.fi/varsinais-suomi/Van_de_Stadt_Teemin_76533444.htm?ca=18&w=3

“Unfinished project. Fiberglass coated plywood frame without paint surface. Length 6.5m Width 2.5m Draft 1.25m Weight 1000kg Sail area 22 m2. Fine teak deck and sitlora. Plexiglass and hatch. Lead filled stainless steel keel. H-boat mast and H-boat ladies big and focal. Finished rudder. Outboard rack. Railing. Comprehensive range of fittings.”

vandestadt7625234754.jpg.3e6d0c316c5bea946b56cdfd20557701.jpg

My dad co-designed and built a very similar boat (I'm pretty sure that if you ask him he'll admit that he had Van de Stadt design in mind, I remember hearing his name at home a lot back then...) My dad actually drew the boat without chines, but his partner (and the one who actually owned the project) thought the mould would be cheaper with chines. Almost 70 boats were built later on, but ours was the first. 41 years old this year and still sailing.

My sister and I during the build:

687217561_Mareira1-19792.jpg.c31fe454cf60fa7c0324036fe0da924e.jpg

 

There he is in my granpa's garden in 1980:

IMG-20200208-WA0006.thumb.jpg.a01b131e920d771399a90a15779ba67a.jpg

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

My dad co-designed and built a very similar boat (I'm pretty sure that if you ask him he'll admit that he had Van de Stadt design in mind, I remember hearing his name at home a lot back then...)

O dear, sweet memories from your childhood! Hope you didn't get any nightmares by that haunting surname "Van de Stadt"!

5 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

My sister and I during the build:

My first thought looking at this picture was photoshop or dolls. But it is the real thing!

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Of course! And now my kids enjoy it...

Here the 8yo wanted to trim main, spinnaker and drive at the same time, while the little one (who doesn't really give a crap) looks at him in disdain :lol:

IMG_20200822_131122_9.thumb.jpg.b6c7f4492754f949f0a2647178720fec.jpg

 

 

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35 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

Of course! And now my kids enjoy it...

What a heritage! Seems that like the older one gets mentioned in your Will as new owner of the yacht!

35 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

Here the 8yo wanted to trim main, spinnaker and drive at the same time, while the little one (who doesn't really give a crap) looks at him in disdain

Really a fun picture. The little one brings memories back from my childhood when a friend of mine had big difficulties finding a crew to his dinghy. One of his younger brothers agreed provided that he could bring a good chunk of old Donald Duck cartoons.

 

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1 hour ago, LordBooster said:

Seems that like the older one gets mentioned in your Will as new owner of the yacht!

My dad already named him owner, he did the same to me when I was 14 in exchange for taking care of it. Of course he never signed the document...

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15 hours ago, LordBooster said:

 

I tried Google translate and got this: H-boat mast and H-boat ladies big and jib

By looking at photos of the van de Stadt link one can conclude that the "ladies big" means mainsail. Kind of unfortunate when Pamela Anderson...:

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamela_Anderson

 

Can confirm that it translates to main and jib. 

H-veneen hyvät iso-ja fokka. = Good main and jib from H-boat.

I cant understand how google translate manages to turn hyvät ~ good to "ladies" 

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1 minute ago, Pertsa said:

Can confirm that it translates to main and jib. 

H-veneen hyvät iso-ja fokka. = Good main and jib from H-boat.

I cant understand how google translate manages to turn hyvät ~ good to "ladies" 

Maybe the computer is lonely?

FB- Doug

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7 hours ago, LordBooster said:

Scenario Act Two 3/4-tonner designed by Rob Humphreys

http://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/Trois Quart/Scenario Act 2.htm

"2020 Juin, Facebook: "If anyone knows anyone that might be interested, this famous Humphreys 3/4 tonner is derelict on a drive way in yorkshire and free to any good home. Bare hull, no keel, few fittings, but worth restoring. Epoxy/foam build, really ahead of its time. It would be a complete resto but with the age allowance could make a competitive boat again. Message me for any more info, but only serious enquiries please the owner has been messed around endlessly so only get in touch if youre thinking of hiring a lowloader to come and get it after Covid restrictions are lifted"
Dan Searjeant "No need to be slagging off the boat, the guy that owns it or anyone contemplating taking it on. We all know how much of a project something like this would be and how much it will cost and how little financial sense boat projects make in general. Im not trying to get rid of it, im sharing the knowledge incase someone out there wants to have a go at it before the owner cuts it up thats all. I dont own it, im not responsible for it and have no interest in it, just recognise that it is a successful 1 off by a famous designer and would be a shame to be cut up" "

ScenarioAct%202.jpg

 

The original article says it's a Kevlar build. It also looks pretty modern for a 1982 design. But if it really just a stripped hull, it's going to be a very big project to get this boat sailing again.

FB- Doug

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On 1/23/2021 at 1:08 PM, LordBooster said:

half-tonner designed by ?

https://www.nettivene.com/purjevene/offshore/827125

“Unfinished ground damage project. Once upon a time there were top boats in competitions. There are e.g. In the 100-year publication of the Turku Yacht Club. Half a ton. Even make a floating sauna or put it in competition. For a willing additional price, the engine still has Yanmar 2 gm, shaft and folding propeller, boom, mast, catches and rods, lead keel, rudder, levanki. The hull is quite finished, but still needs a bit of lamination if you plan to sail. Advice and gasti on the trade.”

 

half3109ccb0ffda2f9d-large.thumb.jpg.ee283d6c1f3ed9d71443adfc56f14329.jpg

This yacht is a Joubert/Nivelt design, if I understand the information from Histoire des Halfs correctly. Obviously, they are selling the parts of the yachts separately, according to link below, which may indicate that this yacht must be saved fast to avoid becoming a sauna or worse:

https://www.nettivaraosa.com/en/veneen-varusteet-ja-varaosat/2910885?fbclid=IwAR3Ua3-f-O9bLNuAa3zl7313CJIE2MRb5Xo0VFW3SGxpV-5TZB1CHqtG9gw

 

 

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

The original article says it's a Kevlar build. It also looks pretty modern for a 1982 design. But if it really just a stripped hull, it's going to be a very big project to get this boat sailing again.

FB- Doug

I have to look into the details how she is built, Kevlar aspects and so on. Yes, "pretty modern" but what I understand it is really a 1982 design. Yes, almost only a "stripped hull". I guess that similar to the Joubert/Nivelt half-tonner dealt with above, the parts have been sold (or will be sold) separately. However, compared to that Joubert/Nivelt design the owner of this 3/4-tonner, Nic Crellin (who wants me to get her a good caring owner), is saying the following: "I want nothing for her and the mast and some sails. There’s no trailer or trolley or cradle". He also asked me to post pictures of the present state of the yacht:

135770130_3641546135930898_1704711579599491991_n.png?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=58c789&_nc_ohc=sO3Ao9OjuusAX--w6M4&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ht=scontent.xx&_nc_tp=30&oh=03b55ee0712bf5f47f5018c067cab87a&oe=603788F9

135618481_1353186835023364_5851807678064523363_n.png?_nc_cat=102&ccb=2&_nc_sid=58c789&_nc_ohc=LQWUugGUIsIAX-mmk3t&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ht=scontent.xx&_nc_tp=30&oh=a0b4adfba0ac2bf3599156fa82305d78&oe=60379492

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5 hours ago, LordBooster said:

I have to look into the details how she is built, Kevlar aspects and so on. Yes, "pretty modern" but what I understand it is really a 1982 design. Yes, almost only a "stripped hull". I guess that similar to the Joubert/Nivelt half-tonner dealt with above, the parts have been sold (or will be sold) separately. However, compared to that Joubert/Nivelt design the owner of this 3/4-tonner, Nic Crellin (who wants me to get her a good caring owner), is saying the following: "I want nothing for her and the mast and some sails. There’s no trailer or trolley or cradle". He also asked me to post pictures of the present state of the yacht:

135770130_3641546135930898_1704711579599491991_n.png?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=58c789&_nc_ohc=sO3Ao9OjuusAX--w6M4&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ht=scontent.xx&_nc_tp=30&oh=03b55ee0712bf5f47f5018c067cab87a&oe=603788F9

135618481_1353186835023364_5851807678064523363_n.png?_nc_cat=102&ccb=2&_nc_sid=58c789&_nc_ohc=LQWUugGUIsIAX-mmk3t&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ht=scontent.xx&_nc_tp=30&oh=a0b4adfba0ac2bf3599156fa82305d78&oe=60379492

Looks a bit like a DB 2.  I wanted one of those BITD but they were a bit over my budget.   IIRC the DB's were kevlar hulls.  

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On 1/25/2021 at 10:50 AM, Left Shift said:

Who ever tabbed that fitting in must have done it on Friday about 4:55 and was really anxious to meet his dealer.

I've seen a number of those done that way.  It is the same problem as not sealing penetrations on cored construction.  All the effort goes into the design, mould-building, proper layup etc. etc. and then the whole job is rendered insufficient because the detail work is done incorrectly, or not done at all.  SMH.

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2 hours ago, Rain Man said:

I've seen a number of those done that way.  It is the same problem as not sealing penetrations on cored construction.  All the effort goes into the design, mould-building, proper layup etc. etc. and then the whole job is rendered insufficient because the detail work is done incorrectly, or not done at all.  SMH.

Yea, I am not sure of how the rudder shaft ends up, and is connected to the tiller, probably not in the cockpit. More likely at deck level. Regardless, for structural integrity I would prefer the rudder post upper parts to be laminated to something having stiffness. Rather than putting a hose on the upper parts of the rudder post, and a hose clamp around it. Using this ugly solution, needles to say, the other hose-end is simply being clamped to the lower side of the deck or cockpit (around some minor circular flange). The relative motion between the rudder post and the cockpit (or deck) is critical and can result in cracking already under non-impact sailing. A load-case involving strong wind and high waves is enough. This contributes to this ugly hose solution. Here, hull (and rudderpost) can show large relative motion vs the cockpit or deck, without any cracking occurring under the previously mentioned sailing condition (load-case). The owners are happy with their yachts showing no cracks. However, under a load case involving impact of the rudder/rudderpost one needs a lot of laminate and stiffness/strength locally and good lamination to the cockpit or deck. Thus, one have conflicting dimensioning criteria for the two previously mentioned load-cases. The best one cane do under such conflicting dimensioning criteria is to have uniform stiffness of the structural parts of the yacht (naturally not the rudder shaft, mast or boom). As previously mentioned, for structural integrity I would prefer the rudder post upper parts to be laminated to something having stiffness. For instance, the cockpit or deck. Here experimental research can give a hint of how the uniform stiffness shall be achieved. Another way is computer analysis using some finite element code (FE-code, similar to what is common practice in the automotive industry).   


 

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On 1/23/2021 at 7:45 PM, sledracr said:

 

What's that boat's story?  It was tied up outside Anthony's (restaurant) in Everett for a couple of years, and has been on the hard for a long time.  But doesn't look neglected.

Good looking boat, although my dockside impression was that either she's massively over-rigged, or built like a tank.  The deck gear is all a grade or two beefier than I would expect for a boat of that size.

There is only a single photo and a couple of clews, but if It's an over built, flush deck, Kaufman 46, I think I sailed the Super Mac (Chicago to Port Huron) on it in 1985 (?).

Respite, owned by Bruce Ohmart,  a surgeon out of Alpena, Michigan was campaigned on the Great Lakes in the mid eighties. She had a flush deck, finished in teak, with a slick halyard pit right behind the mast. The boat was as overbuilt and stiff a boat as I'd every sailed. Looks like the old Respite to me.

 

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On 1/25/2021 at 11:47 AM, LordBooster said:

Yea, maybe the kind of rudder design of Bruce Farr is somewhat safer. Perhaps, the rudder post gets better structural integrity:

http://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/E15.htm

farr141844660_10223825381158708_2742526167927807700_o.thumb.jpg.585d716a8c44cbff0825da850918c7d0.jpg

 

That tri looks really nice...actually, they both do!

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2 hours ago, BigWaveDave said:

flush deck, finished in teak, with a slick halyard pit right behind the mast.

Yes, flush deck, finished in teak.  I didn't notice a pit, but it had some covers on when I saw it in the water

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18 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Looks a bit like a DB 2.  I wanted one of those BITD but they were a bit over my budget.   IIRC the DB's were kevlar hulls.  

No toe rails in bow

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