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46 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Not gonna try and sell you, but it was not uncommon in the 70's IOR boats.  Seemed to be seen most often in 3/4 Tons for  some reason.

Bob Miller used it as did Gary Mull on boats like Swampfire, and the local New Infidel.

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I help build New Infidel.

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It was an odd time the late IOR period. Fantastic fleets, great racing and many beautiful looking boats that were absolute cunts of things to sail. Back them most  owners actually knew how to sail and

Having renovated an IOR 1-tonner, I feel obliged to point out that there are way cheaper ways to get a tidy boat on to a start line

My old Two Tonner HEATHER designed for and built by John Buchan. HEATHER is now a live aboard cruising boat in south Puget Sound.

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14 minutes ago, sledracr said:

That;s a great looking boat!  What is it?

A Bob Miller 3/4 ton - Scorpio I think.  Didn't do very well.  For some reason, I think this may have originally had something like a bulb but it's hard to tell from the photo.  Remember reading about a Miller 3/4 Ton BITD that did poorly especially upwind and it was wondered if the bulb added enough to the pitching moment to account for the poor upwind performance.  Of course Miller's preference at the time for quite full bows would account for that as well - although it would certainly help her offwind speed.

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2 hours ago, 12 metre said:

A Bob Miller 3/4 ton - Scorpio I think.  Didn't do very well.  For some reason, I think this may have originally had something like a bulb but it's hard to tell from the photo.  Remember reading about a Miller 3/4 Ton BITD that did poorly especially upwind and it was wondered if the bulb added enough to the pitching moment to account for the poor upwind performance.  Of course Miller's preference at the time for quite full bows would account for that as well - although it would certainly help her offwind speed.

Plus his "oeuvre" was almost as uneven as Chance's - flashes of brilliance interspersed with periods in the dog pound.

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On 6/28/2021 at 8:09 AM, wal' said:

...  OK..... so someone sell me on the cockpit layout concept.....

The Elvstrom half-tonner was a big thing in Denmark in the early 70'ies. I remember walking through the cabin between the trenches 13 year old and sitting down at the chart table facing backwards. It was a revelation. The pantry not so much as it was under one of the bathtubs, and the loo was under the aft hatch. When you used it all of your upper body was exposed.

It sailed extremely well and I would estimate the number of different decks (including home builds on the same hull) to be well over 10 during the few years it was in production. Still a very beautiful hull/boat. Remembering the build weight of the time most of them are probably soft by now.

The trenches were also used on some bigger Australian boats - I vaguely remember GIngko ? On these boats they were supplemented with a small aft cockpit for the helmsman.

I really like the layout of Motorboat 2 - somewhat later, but looks extremely safe and comfortable in this video: (https://www.facebook.com/motorboat.E10.5/videos/901629543608001)

Of course there must be a price to pay down below.....

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23 hours ago, 12 metre said:

A Bob Miller 3/4 ton - Scorpio I think.  Didn't do very well.  For some reason, I think this may have originally had something like a bulb but it's hard to tell from the photo.  Remember reading about a Miller 3/4 Ton BITD that did poorly especially upwind and it was wondered if the bulb added enough to the pitching moment to account for the poor upwind performance.  Of course Miller's preference at the time for quite full bows would account for that as well - although it would certainly help her offwind speed.

Good evening,

Yep, a Miller and Whitworth 35. 3/4 Tonner designed back in 1975.

4 wooden ones were built in Durban, South Africa for the 1976 Cape To Rio Race.

Cloud Nine which scored a 3rd or 4th overall and a class win.

Red Amber, Soundwave and Scorpio were the other three.

At launching time the local yachting press referred to them as small Ceil 111's.

Miller and Whitworth did a lot of those cockpit designs .Apollo, Ceil 111 and Ginkgo also featured them.

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On 6/13/2021 at 2:24 AM, LordBooster said:

32' Pearson Custom 32 SCREECH

Kan vara en bild av jordens vatten

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/60535?fbclid=IwAR0C0gHR_bZQlv1tk8oGusqRLrEZPZ252lFxxzapaeRsvd45Wrq_N-PrxUQ

About designer Bill Shaw: "He joined the renowned firm of Sparkman & Stephens Naval Architects and Marine Engineers (S&S) in October 1952 as a designer. In 1961, he became a manager of Products of Asia, and was the chief designer of the America’s Cup defender Columbia.", see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shaw_(yacht_designer)?fbclid=IwAR1BBD_GqKY-hmcLqmStzwUv30HymtU6PLXnd2_4IN9QxuNS1zeGTDnwwTU

 

That boat has been around WI forever.  The coamings around the cockpit are not original, a previous owner added those maybe 10 some years ago.  It looks good in the water, but when she is sitting on a trailer (not a road trailer, just for moving around the winter storage yard) it seems a wonder she floats on her lines.  Very rounded underbody, lots of internal ballast (mentioned in ad).

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Ranger [Mull ]26-2 on Ebay for a song.https://www.ebay.com/itm/114870306051?hash=item1abecdc503:g:Hn8AAOSwK0FgxRaX

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

m

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This one is very close to succumbing to the sad fate of most of these boats. 

 

Been anchored here about a month, with multiple sportfish going by at cruise maybe 20/30' away. I'm surprised it's lasted this long. 

 

 

 

373107691_IMG_0471copy.thumb.jpg.c70fb31f9e66500afb960d7c62664677.jpg1603788037_IMG_0476copy.thumb.jpg.613c4bea96c235b7c73617062e12c60d.jpg

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1 hour ago, guerdon said:

Ranger [Mull ]26-2 on Ebay for a song.https://www.ebay.com/itm/114870306051?hash=item1abecdc503:g:Hn8AAOSwK0FgxRaX

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

m

That is sorely tempting.  Seller has titles and demands we go before a notary at sale.  (That is Very Good!) Say $500 for the boat and my guess a thousand or a bit more for the trailer (assuming the frame is capable) Say $1500 for running and standing rigging and at least $2000 more for everything else.  Total cost, at least $5000.00.  That is assuming the hull is dry and blister free and the dagger rod winch system is usable.  Given some blistering or a soggy hull, or being a cistern for several years, she would be a candidate for the landfill.  

Actually considering four new tires, bearings and tie downs, wiring and lights as well as a new trailer winch I am probably low on the trailer.  Oh, the cost of driving a couple thousand miles is going to take about 75 gallons of fuel at $3.00 (if I’m lucky) adds another $225 to the cost

Proof, cheap boats are rarely cheap.  

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No name on her. If you zoom in you can see the reggo. Looks like CT.

 

With the recent squalls we've been having I'm sure that cabin top has seen the sun for the last time for quite awhile by now. 

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Santana, I. got the little sister [Ranger 22].   So far the costs have been quite reasonable.  My boats build quality is fine and all of the fittings are first rate and functional .  Hopefully the buyer of this  boat will also score.   You are smart to be careful but It doesn't feel like a fixer.  Just a tired owner.   Good luck.

 

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My old Wylie 34 raced IOR in 1980 before I got her.  We eventually did very well in PHRF LE, & in the Youngstown Levels in Lake Ontario.  still going strong with new owner.

 

W34 grsc99.jpg

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On 6/29/2021 at 7:16 PM, Bowchow said:

This one is very close to succumbing to the sad fate of most of these boats. 

 

Been anchored here about a month, with multiple sportfish going by at cruise maybe 20/30' away. I'm surprised it's lasted this long. 

 

 

 

373107691_IMG_0471copy.thumb.jpg.c70fb31f9e66500afb960d7c62664677.jpg1603788037_IMG_0476copy.thumb.jpg.613c4bea96c235b7c73617062e12c60d.jpg

Sad very sad 

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On 7/3/2021 at 4:36 PM, ROADKILL666 said:

Sad very sad 

Totally sad. Sailed by from a distance yesterday and saw the dreaded sight, a rig sitting at an angle that it shouldn't be sitting at. She's gone for good. 

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Steam, I believe some resourceful person is going to have a lot of fun for small dollars[under $9000.]   There aren't many lifting keel boats of this quality around.  My hull is very well laminated and has perforated Pvc foam for stiffining in just the. right areas.  It was made at the height of hand laminated development by boat builders with pride. Congratulations

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Carter 30

Kan vara en bild av jordens vatten

https://www.blocket.se/annons/goteborg/carter_30/96502554?fbclid=IwAR0lWfbd-te-ECkPR98stj1rkKimoWdoDiZXcdFogv-FsE8xOMat8vGC_UY

Google translate: "Carter 30 is a well-sailing boat that needs to be reviewed. Recently, sails, cockpit canopies and cushions have been procured.
To the port side of the descent stairs is a rear-facing L-shaped kitchenette. To the starboard side of the descent stairs there is a berth and navigation space. Lounge with L-shaped sofa for port and longitudinal sofa for starboard. Toilet a wardrobe amidships and traditional forepeak at the front.
The boat is sold on behalf of the estate with a disclaimer for its faults and deficiencies and is on land for inspection. All bids are considered."
 
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C&C 39

Kan vara en bild av jordens vatten

https://www.blocket.se/annons/stockholm/c_c_39_klassisk_segelbat_kvalitetsbygge_rekonditionerad_2008/96496457?fbclid=IwAR1GZiifp-gNIN5E10kFssHLJ0h2sQ3qpggxis0Wa0FdlCezIfKHPCmH4WY

"The C&C 39 was one of the first production boats designed to fit the IOR rule. For the same IOR rating as the Cal 40, the C&C carried a far larger rig and would demolish the Cal 40 in light to moderate winds. The two Cs were talented Canadian designers George Cuthbertson and George Cassian.", see 

https://sailingmagazine.net/article-119-c&c-39.html?fbclid=IwAR1p6r-_XaIJiORqt_nJYVUZqnoQf5Gc5S4u_GfUGLX2BCmnHBmMwg2f5IU

 

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4 hours ago, DickDastardly said:

Nah, stern foil.  Inspired by International 14 practice

Maybe it's just very light - and it floated to the surface?

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12 hours ago, Bowchow said:

Well I'll be damned. A true "no shit" moment. Must have some killer lift on port. 

 

   And what appears to be a go at an open 30. 

 

 

IMG_0579 copy.jpg

What is this? looks interesting...

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14 hours ago, Bowchow said:

1909447016_IMG_0585copy.jpg

That *was* a pretty boat in its day.  Sad.

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Kalik 33 3/4 tonner. I wanted to buy this particular yacht a few years ago. Now has come on the market requiring a few repairs. It will be a rotted teak/ply deck problem for sure. Easy straight forward job to rip off the teak and replace the ply and cover with epoxy and cloth. Definitely good value and if I had not bought my SS34 with the same deck job I would jump at this.

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/miranda/sail-boats/kalik-33-yacht/1276206436

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1 hour ago, Ramona said:

Easy straight forward job to rip off the teak and replace the ply and cover with epoxy and cloth.

Straightforward maybe but easy?

Horrendous job.

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On 7/15/2021 at 5:24 PM, Ramona said:

Kalik 33 3/4 tonner. I wanted to buy this particular yacht a few years ago. Now has come on the market requiring a few repairs. It will be a rotted teak/ply deck problem for sure. Easy straight forward job to rip off the teak and replace the ply and cover with epoxy and cloth. Definitely good value and if I had not bought my SS34 with the same deck job I would jump at this.

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/miranda/sail-boats/kalik-33-yacht/1276206436

Just below this ad they also had a Scott Kaufman designed boat that looked pretty good.  Alas, it was a might too far for a quick drive down for a quick inspection.  A mere 8021 miles air miles.  

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Minit designed by Gary Mull

Ingen fotobeskrivning tillgänglig.

https://www.blocket.se/annons/goteborg/vacker_minit_minitonnare/96588915?fbclid=IwAR3mAoTByj7rye-J_OOs9NXZAXH2z2PNafuw1hTsOex0M1VWR8N6xtW50ns

Google translate of link above: "Really fresh little sailboat. Random due to engine problems. Volvo Penta MB2 / 50S inboard that takes cooling water into the oil. Have messed with it but do not have the knowledge so I am tired.
Very new and changed in recent years. Three foresails plus spinnaker and mainsail ..
Pointing, fresh cushions, dual batteries. Repair the engine or hang on an outboard and you have a good and flexible sailboat in good condition.
Located on Hönö. The boat is in the lake but is unmasked. Supports for installation on land are included. (See picture)
The boat is easy to transport on a boat trailer. Weighs 1000 kg.
First come. Call and I'll tell you more.
Cheaper for fast and smooth business. Has to go."
 
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I think someone inquired about the Kaufman 46 in the Seattle area that was for sale a while back - but had sold before he could look into it.

In any event, the boat is for sale again at a much reduced price of USD 11k.  I've always liked the look of the Kaufman IOR designs and this one looks to be in reasonable shape.  I would be interested except it is way too big for my use - plus the teak decks.  

Here is the CL Ad: https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/d/south-prairie-kaufman-46-sloop-1981/7353087951.html

7248421_20191011140141336_1_XLARGE.jpg

7248421_20191011140118192_1_XLARGE.jpg

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Looks like a steal for a handy person.

That's a Pathfinder diesel isn't it?

The teak deck is scary but within the limits of the pics it doesn't look toasted.

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58 minutes ago, LordBooster said:

Unfortunately, this one was getting into the era of the "pop top" boats - with the collapsible cabins.

I seem to recall a photo of a  custom Dubois or Humphreys QT with a shallow cockpit extending from stern to bow with a pop top cabin.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Looks like a steal for a handy person.

That's a Pathfinder diesel isn't it?

The teak deck is scary but within the limits of the pics it doesn't look toasted.

I always get tempted by these sorts of deals - but the cost of maintaining is above what I want to afford.  Plus finding a slip would be extremely difficult if not impossible locally for at least 5 years.  I figure 35 ft LOA is my max and preferably smaller

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16 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Unfortunately, this one was getting into the era of the "pop top" boats - with the collapsible cabins.

I seem to recall a photo of a  custom Dubois or Humphreys QT with a shallow cockpit extending from stern to bow with a pop top cabin.

Everyone bar the bowman through the cockpit on tacks. Those coachroofs don't make stacking the rail with extra weight easy

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21 hours ago, 12 metre said:

I think someone inquired about the Kaufman 46 in the Seattle area that was for sale a while back -

7248421_20191011140141336_1_XLARGE.jpg

 

 

Yeah.  That was in the water in front of Anthony's in Everett for over a year... then was on the hard at the yard for a long time.  Then gone, and apparently now back on the market, but 50 miles further south in the Sound....

The boat a appeared (from the outside) to have been decently maintained.  It's a winch-farm, and a lot of the gear seems oversized (which makes me think it is either really heavy, or was massively over-spec'd.... I mean, Barient two-speeds for the traveler winches?)  

No idea what it's like mechanically or structurally.  Priced at $11k, I can probably make some guesses.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

That offset hatch under the traveler is pretty scary too.

Yes, WTF is up with that?  And it's not like it was an owner mod, Kaufman's deck plan below shows it that way as well.

2 hours ago, sledracr said:

 

Yeah.  That was in the water in front of Anthony's in Everett for over a year... then was on the hard at the yard for a long time.  Then gone, and apparently now back on the market, but 50 miles further south in the Sound....

The boat a appeared (from the outside) to have been decently maintained.  It's a winch-farm, and a lot of the gear seems oversized (which makes me think it is either really heavy, or was massively over-spec'd.... I mean, Barient two-speeds for the traveler winches?)  

No idea what it's like mechanically or structurally.  Priced at $11k, I can probably make some guesses.

Could be mechanical or structural issues, but I will hazard a guess that it is market driven.  As much as I like the looks of her - who would possibly buy this boat?

A racer?  IOR boats are long past their best before date and pretty much guaranteed that the sail inventory is pooched, so what another $30-40k for a bare bones inventory?

A PNW cruiser?  Huge interior, but the deck plan is not conducive to short handed sailing or entertainment.  I couldn't imagine short handed sailing with one person in the aft helmsmans tub and someone trimming in the very exposed forward grinders foxhole where you can't even sit on the deck due to the surrounding winch farm.  For entertaining, there's nothing like a spacious cockpit for that and this just has two small isolated trenches - with no real seating capacity.

Anyways, beautiful boat, but no way would I consider her.

If I were to lose my mind and consider a boat in this size range, I would go with the Serendipity 41 for sale in SoCal for $14k which may have a semi-usable club racing sail inventory.

6629823_20180227122208159_1_XLARGE (2).jpg

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9 hours ago, ROADKILL666 said:

Anyone know where Victory is? She went to the left coast in 99.

Do you know what happened to "Wild Hare"? I got yelled at a lot on the foredeck of that boat.

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1 hour ago, bridhb said:

Do you know what happened to "Wild Hare"? I got yelled at a lot on the foredeck of that boat.

That’s funny I did the yelling at the foredeck on Victory

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13 hours ago, ROADKILL666 said:

Anyone know where Victory is? She went to the left coast in 99.7AC7C840-BD2F-4865-93F6-E6BCC985E02A.thumb.jpeg.191224cb960a7dd98af13c337d275b31.jpeg

Dubois

You were yelling at Pentecost?

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33' unknown design

Kan vara en bild av utomhus

https://www.blocket.se/annons/alvsborg/33_fotare_under_sek_100_000____ar_det_sant_/95859669?fbclid=IwAR3hjKHpVyqW8ohpjoS1_b5PPGvs0flD1TYXPFU2_dnIskd5-Ps5Rbe-boE

Google translate of link above: "Hello,
Yes it's true. But some work needs to be done.
sells my 33 ft sailboat. It is technically very nice with almost new sails. (purchased between 2018 and 2020) New engine 2019 Vetus S-drive with new bellows. Glembring stove from 2018. Oven and hotplates 2018.
NOTE! stick steering + autopilot, radar and toilet according to new rules with tank
To do: our armor, cockpit teak has dropped, mast seal poor.
To be done in the future: fix some small errors. New mattresses in the sleeping bunk and forepeak. It can accommodate up to 8 pers. sleep. Front berth 1.80 meters long, aft cabin (crawl space) 1.80 long Salon 2.00 meters long.
Standing height: Kitchenette 1.88, Mast 175
The boat can of course be used directly and does the job in the fall.
Boat cradle included. Stands on Getterön Varberg" Sweden
 
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Albin 79 quarter-tonner designed by Rolf Magnusson

Kan vara en bild av jordens vatten

https://www.blocket.se/annons/uppsala/albin_79/96641344

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albin_79?fbclid=IwAR3SiOEYRnZFua-aqtDLZnYIAk0AVXU0gd-2AHGc3gHl5-FjyzpXWNh1OOw

Google translate of top link: "Albin 79 in working order for sale.
Perfect boat for the couple or small family. Nice sails with genoa on roll.
Stainless steel anchor with chain and anchor line. Refrigerator and portable gas kitchen. Water toilet with tank and deck emptying. Md5a engine in cannon condition. Garmin potter with large G2vision card, covers the entire east coast, Lake Mälaren and Hjälmaren. + much more.
Help with delivery sailing and help with masting this autumn can be arranged.
The boat is located between Uppsala and Enköping." Sweden
 
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32 minutes ago, LordBooster said:

Only found one google result: 

"8 jan. 1996 — Last year, sailing on his newly purchased Stray Cat, Williams finished last in the Hobie 33 ... Victory, J/41, V.J. Cribb, 4-4-3-3-14 4.", see: https://www.tribpub.com/gdpr/sun-sentinel.com/

 

Cribb was the owner I sailed with for 6 years.Great guy and great times.Boat was donated in 99 and went to California 

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Re the Swan - Needs some work but you don't have to worry about rebedding the teak deak.

A tidy up and you can relocate to the Swan regattas in the Med.

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38 minutes ago, Irrational 14 said:

Free Holland IOR in the SA Classifieds.

Something to consider folks, this is not your typical Holland IOR boat. This is PNW legend "The Fabulous Hagar" being offered up for free - subject to a few not unreasonable conditions.  Basically to be a good steward of the boat.

Here she is below in an undated photo:

85445475152310273879.jpg

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17 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Something to consider folks, this is not your typical Holland IOR boat. This is PNW legend "The Fabulous Hagar" being offered up for free - subject to a few not unreasonable conditions.  Basically to be a good steward of the boat.

Here she is below in an undated photo:

85445475152310273879.jpg

She is beautiful but the up keep on that wood no way

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Renovation of "Play and Loss" half-tonner designed by Georg Nissen and built by Knierim, 4:th at HTC -82

Kan vara en bild av utomhus

https://www.facebook.com/Play-and-Loss-Halfton-Classic-Sailing-Yacht-101103275214985

https://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/E94 Play and Loss.htm?fbclid=IwAR2Uo-NlsfDJYa43acR_GyUsp-hAWcno3pPSdQAKp_EfLYwJAPxjucbpvc0

Google translate of top link: "THE FIRST STEP is now to restore her, piece by piece, to be able to sail her every summer. For me, who was once afraid of water, with my thumb in the middle of my hand, this is a journey that provides a foundation I have missed. Convinced that the path to the next generation's health, is to conquer something practical, such as sailing and crafts.
Do you want to contribute to the work of renovating her above deck? For the hull, despite its nearly 40 years, is completely tight, smooth and without deformations. A little plaster here and there, of course.
You can find my photos on Instagram.com/LotteStoryteller/. Invest in a hand-signed, numbered fine art print on canvas. That's how I ended up in competition, as a photographer on a 68-foot Bermuda Yawl that has not sailed in 20 years. Straight into the classic regattas of the Mediterranean. I am also on #SalongCFF. Reached on 073 663 12 95"
 
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23 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Something to consider folks, this is not your typical Holland IOR boat. This is PNW legend "The Fabulous Hagar" being offered up for free - subject to a few not unreasonable conditions.  Basically to be a good steward of the boat.

Here she is below in an undated photo:

85445475152310273879.jpg

That would be worth moving across the country for!

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Beautiful boat.  I did not appreciate this era of boat until I got one and realized just how nicely they sail in flat water.

Does anyone have experience with adding longer booms on IOR era boats?  Mains are often very high aspect and short footed with J dimension very large.  I have a C&C 36 from 1979 that I really enjoy and that balances beautifully.  Have toyed with the idea of adding 2 feet to its 12 foot long boom.  Main is trimmed from the cabin top though. 150% jib is 24 feet long at the foot by the way and works great.

 

 

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The short boom is like a flap/venturi for the jib.  If you sail with jib flow in mind for power, they really do induce to windward in flat water.  It's like magic.  Besides they are really pretty in a powerful way.

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39 minutes ago, bridhb said:

Those might be one of the ugliest boats ever designed.  the 27 under it and the 33 above it are pretty nice looking but somehow, they certainly screwed these up.  My opinion of course.

IIRC the 27 and 30/2 were MORC designs, not IOR.

The 33T and 36T were IOR - 3/4 Ton and One Tone respectively.

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