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25 minutes ago, 167149 said:

Alican, aluminium whiting 1/4 tonner.... some assembly required

064.jpg

Only Magic Bus and Seaply (Seaflyer) pleased my eye of the designs by Paul Whiting. Then he got into extreme IOR distortions. However, if this is a remain stuff of any of his yachts it is really a waste.

 

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It was an odd time the late IOR period. Fantastic fleets, great racing and many beautiful looking boats that were absolute cunts of things to sail. Back them most  owners actually knew how to sail and

Having renovated an IOR 1-tonner, I feel obliged to point out that there are way cheaper ways to get a tidy boat on to a start line

Big Wheels,  yep.  I sailed an 80 foot Maxi that had a pump on the wheel well because it went below the waterline! Lots of winches,  why no cleats or jammers,  none had been developed capable of

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1 hour ago, 167149 said:

Alican, aluminium whiting 1/4 tonner.... some assembly required

064.jpg

Only Magic Bus and Seaply (Seaflyer) please my eye of the Whiting designs. He got to much into IOR distortions. Still none of his yachts should end up like this. But I like the German shepherd at the wheel. The Whiting design Riotous Assembly had IOR distortions...

 

assembly2download.jfif

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1 hour ago, LordBooster said:

This is so bad that my brother started to feel sick: "Put her on a cradle. Bring her on a truck to Great Lakes. Strap her down carefully, we don't need a 12metre Enterprise over-strapping. Thus, only strap down her cradle hard, but only secure-strap her end-ships. Strap her vertically at the same location where the cradle has its endpoints at truck-level. There is somewhat of a revival in Europe for renovating old IOR yachts. My guess is that some Europeans will show up at the Great Lakes and bring her over to Europe."

 

If I see her still in the harbour on Tuesday I will jump on my boat and go have a look to see what kind of shape she is in, and take some pictures.  My engine could use a run anyway.  They say it will snow and blow tomorrow, so Tuesday it is.

I would imagine that properly caring for a boat like Mad Max is beyond the budget of most owners, especially ones who purchase her for under 10K, unless she came with a container full of sails and spares, or the owner just bought her for cheap with a big budget for restoration.   Just the running rigging would consume a boatbuck per year or more.  I suspect, given that she has been at anchor for a long time, that this will not end well.  

In spite of the harbour being somewhat protected, we get some pretty big windstorms here and boats do end up on the beach.  There is one carcass on Newcastle Island at the moment.   Hope this doesn't become her fate. 

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Sometimes going to the landfill is the most dignified ending for such a boat as Max.

Here is the thread I started last summer when Max was on the block for $10k.  Below is the atrocious jetski storage/launch pad surgery done to the stern of Locura.  And...twin companionway bulkhead steering wheels.  And...raised boxy cabinhouse.  The guy actually spent a fair amount of coin and/or time doing the mods.  Too bad they weren't good ones.

One of Eichenlaubs Cadenzas (N/M 45?) ended up being sold, good parts removed and crushed after ending up on the rocks in Victoria a few years ago.  Here is the ad for Cadenza when she was for sale back in 2014 https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/42467  photos I assume are from way back when she was in Cali and still in good shape.

 

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2 hours ago, Rain Man said:

If I see her still in the harbour on Tuesday I will jump on my boat and go have a look to see what kind of shape she is in, and take some pictures.  My engine could use a run anyway.  They say it will snow and blow tomorrow, so Tuesday it is.

I would imagine that properly caring for a boat like Mad Max is beyond the budget of most owners, especially ones who purchase her for under 10K, unless she came with a container full of sails and spares, or the owner just bought her for cheap with a big budget for restoration.   Just the running rigging would consume a boatbuck per year or more.  I suspect, given that she has been at anchor for a long time, that this will not end well.  

In spite of the harbour being somewhat protected, we get some pretty big windstorms here and boats do end up on the beach.  There is one carcass on Newcastle Island at the moment.   Hope this doesn't become her fate. 

Good move!

 

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52 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Sometimes going to the landfill is the most dignified ending for such a boat as Max.

Here is the thread I started last summer when Max was on the block for $10k.  Below is the atrocious jetski storage/launch pad surgery done to the stern of Locura.  And...twin companionway bulkhead steering wheels.  And...raised boxy cabinhouse.  The guy actually spent a fair amount of coin and/or time doing the mods.  Too bad they weren't good ones.

One of Eichenlaubs Cadenzas (N/M 45?) ended up being sold, good parts removed and crushed after ending up on the rocks in Victoria a few years ago.  Here is the ad for Cadenza when she was for sale back in 2014 https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/42467  photos I assume are from way back when she was in Cali and still in good shape.

 

Heart-less treatment of this Cadenza!

 

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On 12/18/2020 at 4:27 PM, SPORTSCAR said:

They were the dicks that stacked all their drawers, cushions, gear etc from inside their shitbox outside their rental accommodation to lighten their boat considerably for the last race so they could have the dubious honour of winning a pickle dish in their PHD division of Lincoln Week 2015.  Maybe they thought a couple hundred yachties walking past might not notice? So how do we know it was them? We watched them put it all back on board later.

IMG_2317.thumb.JPG.2874a9b53ab5adf925710d8c9f782dc6.JPG

 

Pic or it didn' t happen? Happy to oblige.

IMG_2464.JPG

He helmed the entire race regatta from looking thru leeward rail, whilst constantly screaming at his crew

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31 minutes ago, Dark Cloud said:

He helmed the entire race regatta from looking thru leeward rail, whilst constantly screaming at his crew

Robust male behavior. Taking no notice of the waves and blaming the crew. I get kind of inspired here. Would be fun to test how long I can keep my crew? No, I cancel those plans.

  

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1 hour ago, Dark Cloud said:

Pigs arse - you're just the same :lol:

Luxury!

You should now better. All these Viking series shown on TV: Gloson ”Razorback” Gluffsow

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloson

“Gloson was said to have razor-sharp bristles which were ground against tombstones and its main pleasure was to run between the legs of people and thus split them open.”

 

 

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11 hours ago, LordBooster said:

Only Magic Bus and Seaply (Seaflyer) please my eye of the Whiting designs. He got to much into IOR distortions. Still none of his yachts should end up like this. But I like the German shepherd at the wheel. The Whiting design Riotous Assembly had IOR distortions...

 

assembly2download.jfif

 

http://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/Quarter%20Tonner/Q%20Whitting.htm

WHITTING Paul:

”Alley Kan ? 1977”

https://www.demi-coques.fr/articlevoile/unetonnelegerechap11

“The 1978 Quarter Ton Cup selections

 The weak participation in the Dunhill Cup of 1978 undoubtedly demonstrated the decline of the interest carried in the measurement which started already before 1978. It was fast and suddenly, the national Half and One Ton were non-events. This was happening while New Zealand held both titles, with top architects at the time. The only national event that was to be held that year was the selections for the quarter Ton Cup of a fleet of 10 boats anyway. The aim was to participate in the Quarter which would take place in Japan. The selection was won by Alley Kan , a Whiting developed from Magic Bus and Windward sausage , and surprisingly built for this size aluminum boat. Like Magic Bus, it was skippered by Murray Ross. It carried a larger mainsail, its length being less than Magic Bus . The only other contender was her close sistership, Self Whiting, but her performance was hampered by shorter fin, less ballast and less canopy.”

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14 hours ago, LordBooster said:

If this legendary Laurie Davidson design is "destined for landfill?" it is a tragedy.

  

If it had the same amount of core sheer as Blue Max when I sold it the only tragedy is they didn’t bury it sooner. 

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1 hour ago, LordBooster said:

 

http://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/Quarter%20Tonner/Q%20Whitting.htm

WHITTING Paul:

”Alley Kan ? 1977”

https://www.demi-coques.fr/articlevoile/unetonnelegerechap11

“The 1978 Quarter Ton Cup selections

 The weak participation in the Dunhill Cup of 1978 undoubtedly demonstrated the decline of the interest carried in the measurement which started already before 1978. It was fast and suddenly, the national Half and One Ton were non-events. This was happening while New Zealand held both titles, with top architects at the time. The only national event that was to be held that year was the selections for the quarter Ton Cup of a fleet of 10 boats anyway. The aim was to participate in the Quarter which would take place in Japan. The selection was won by Alley Kan , a Whiting developed from Magic Bus and Windward sausage , and surprisingly built for this size aluminum boat. Like Magic Bus, it was skippered by Murray Ross. It carried a larger mainsail, its length being less than Magic Bus . The only other contender was her close sistership, Self Whiting, but her performance was hampered by shorter fin, less ballast and less canopy.”

Ahh the good old days when regatta’s were sponsored by lung busters.

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34 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

They just wanted to stay ahead of the compact cassette makers in the light air telltale market.

"Lung busters" and "Light air telltale"=Luxury!

Need I say it again. And hopefully for the last time. You should know better. All these Viking series shown on TV:

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A6rne_Kloster

Google translate of the Ynglinga saga:

“King Skjold came down to the beach with his army, then King Øystein was gone and had come all the way across the fjord, and Skjold saw their sails; then he took his cloak and cranked and blew with it. When they sailed in past Jersøy, King Øystein sat at the helm, another ship sailed right up to them, there was a little seagoing, and then the boom of the ship struck the king overboard; it became his death.”

 

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16 hours ago, LordBooster said:

Only Magic Bus and Seaply (Seaflyer) pleased my eye of the designs by Paul Whiting. Then he got into extreme IOR distortions. However, if this is a remain stuff of any of his yachts it is really a waste.

 

I don't think they became any more distorted over time.  I do find it kind of funny that people think Whitings designs were distorted while LDs were smooth.  IMO their designs share similar bones.  Below are Whiting's Newspaper Taxi and LD's Pendragon (athough I think perhaps the French guy recreated Pendragons lines from her sectional drawings which I have seen on the internet but never her waterlines and buttock lines so I can't vouch for their accuracy).  They even have the same deck line pull in forward of the Aft Girth Station

In any event, NT actually has a smoother run aft to her stern than Pendragon which has a bit of the Davidson crease.  Overall, NT has more topside flare and the beam on NT is carried further aft while max depth is further forward relative to Pendragon.

Those differences aside, the main visual differences are that if Whiting and Davidson were both given a wooden half model of another NZ IOR design (say Farr or Young) I think Whiting would pull out a block plane to flatten any curves on the fore/aft topsides and forward bottom.   On the other hand I think Davidson would pull out a ROS to round off any hint of an edge or corner.  And yes, that is a simplistic view but that is how I've always viewed it. 

Newspaper Taxi.jpg

Pendragon lines.jpg

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1 hour ago, LordBooster said:

"Lung busters" and "Light air telltale"=Luxury!

Need I say it again. And hopefully for the last time. You should know better. All these Viking series shown on TV:

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A6rne_Kloster

Google translate of the Ynglinga saga:

“King Skjold came down to the beach with his army, then King Øystein was gone and had come all the way across the fjord, and Skjold saw their sails; then he took his cloak and cranked and blew with it. When they sailed in past Jersøy, King Øystein sat at the helm, another ship sailed right up to them, there was a little seagoing, and then the boom of the ship struck the king overboard; it became his death.”

 

A good cigar in light air is still the best "telltale"

 

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30 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

I don't think they became any more distorted over time.  I do find it kind of funny that people think Whitings designs were distorted while LDs were smooth.  IMO their designs share similar bones.  Below are Whiting's Newspaper Taxi and LD's Pendragon (athough I think perhaps the French guy recreated Pendragons lines from her sectional drawings which I have seen on the internet but never her waterlines and buttock lines so I can't vouch for their accuracy).  They even have the same deck line pull in forward of the Aft Girth Station

In any event, NT actually has a smoother run aft to her stern than Pendragon which has a bit of the Davidson crease.  Overall, NT has more topside flare and the beam on NT is carried further aft while max depth is further forward relative to Pendragon.

Those differences aside, the main visual differences are that if Whiting and Davidson were both given a wooden half model of another NZ IOR design (say Farr or Young) I think Whiting would pull out a block plane to flatten any curves on the fore/aft topsides and forward bottom.   On the other hand I think Davidson would pull out a ROS to round off any hint of an edge or corner.  And yes, that is a simplistic view but that is how I've always viewed it. 

Newspaper Taxi.jpg

Pendragon lines.jpg

Thanks for the drawings! Well, I think Laurie Davidson got inspiration in only one single aspect from Paul Whiting, depth volume (from Light Brigade by Gary Baigent):

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk037QaHk88_yyMhDiORRM33IErKXkQ%3A1608585458051&source=hp&ei=8RDhX7nzPOPrrgSroLhY&q=%22laurie+davidson%22+%22light+brigade%22+depth-volume&oq=%22laurie+davidson%22+%22light+brigade%22&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgAMgcIIxCuAhAnMgcIIxCuAhAnOgcIIxDqAhAnOgcILhDqAhAnOgQIIxAnOgQILhAnOgcILhAnEJMCOgQILhBDOgUIABCxAzoLCAAQsQMQxwEQowI6DggAELEDEIMBEMcBEKMCOggIABCxAxCDAToECAAQQzoICC4QsQMQgwE6CAgAEMcBEKMCOgIIADoFCC4QywE6AgguOgUIABDLAToLCAAQxwEQrwEQywE6BggAEBYQHlDwHVjR2gFggfgBaAFwAHgAgAF8iAHzFpIBBDI4LjWYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6sAEK&sclient=psy-ab

“But Davidson was critical, “Paul Whiting’s designs are join up the dots boats and they aren’t pretty. But it took courage to do what he did in the forward sections because, with the extreme hollow on the waterline, he had to get deep volume in that area, and that was very cleverly done. But I think the overall effect was horrific and his boats were no good unless Murray Ross was sailing them.””

And that is what you see in Newspaper Taxi vs Pendragon. The original design of Waverider was roughly a scaled up version of Fun. Now compare the original design of Waverider and the modified Waverider. Davidson had to increase its displacement. Here, among other things, went for depth volume. This does not answer the question if Whiting's designs got more distorted with time, but maybe this does (Pendragon is the main subject but Riotous Assembly designed -78 is dealt with as well) and compare with Magic Bus from -76:

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, johnsonjay17 said:

A good cigar in light air is still the best "telltale"

 

Well, you are probably correct. I have no tested that trick, only snus. Snus (roughly chewing tobacco) works good in a breeze, cigar probably not. Probably the reason my light air speed...

 

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3 minutes ago, LordBooster said:

Well, you are probably correct. I have no tested that trick, only snus. Snus (roughly chewing tobacco) works good in a breeze, cigar probably not. Probably the reason my light air speed...

If it's that light, watch how the smoke flows when I shoot myself with the flare gun.

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14 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

If it's that light, watch how the smoke flows when I shoot myself with the flare gun.

Back in college (a long time ago) we won several races because everybody else quit and we made the cut-off time. Boats even in front of us threw in the towel. At the party they all just said it wasn't worth it.

JJ

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12 minutes ago, johnsonjay17 said:

Back in college (a long time ago) we won several races because everybody else quit and we made the cut-off time. Boats even in front of us threw in the towel. At the party they all just said it wasn't worth it.

JJ

Despite my misery, I never quit.  Thanks for the wake-up call!  '89 Chi-Mac as proof.

43' finishing Tuesday afternoon...sucks on all levels...we won.

  My dad (RIP '02) taught me that if you start a race, you finish the race.  I did a few solo Mackinacs including a Supermac (Chicago- Port Huron), the year beforer, I'm just aiming for Mackinac, my autopilot went TU as I'm a long tack staring at Muskegon...my trailer was in Muskegon (F27).  I ended up beating one of the best sailors I have been privileged to sail with.

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2 hours ago, 12 metre said:

I don't think they became any more distorted over time.  I do find it kind of funny that people think Whitings designs were distorted while LDs were smooth.  IMO their designs share similar bones.  Below are Whiting's Newspaper Taxi and LD's Pendragon (athough I think perhaps the French guy recreated Pendragons lines from her sectional drawings which I have seen on the internet but never her waterlines and buttock lines so I can't vouch for their accuracy).  They even have the same deck line pull in forward of the Aft Girth Station

In any event, NT actually has a smoother run aft to her stern than Pendragon which has a bit of the Davidson crease.  Overall, NT has more topside flare and the beam on NT is carried further aft while max depth is further forward relative to Pendragon.

Those differences aside, the main visual differences are that if Whiting and Davidson were both given a wooden half model of another NZ IOR design (say Farr or Young) I think Whiting would pull out a block plane to flatten any curves on the fore/aft topsides and forward bottom.   On the other hand I think Davidson would pull out a ROS to round off any hint of an edge or corner.  And yes, that is a simplistic view but that is how I've always viewed it. 

Newspaper Taxi.jpg

Pendragon lines.jpg

That Whiting drawing the waterlines are not parallel to the design waterline, are they?

Davidson's description is apt.

Yes they both share general features but the Davison hullform is more balanced.

I wonder what the Curve of Areas looks like on the Whiting.

The Diagonals on the Whiting (only 3) aren't enough to see the real waterflow -- would be interesting to take others or same as LD hull for comparison.

Remember that with exception of running, that crease isn't in the water and the diagonals are what matters. Davidson's buttock angle is still nowhere near steep enough to create separation.

It is fun to post these together.

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2 hours ago, johnsonjay17 said:

A good cigar in light air is still the best "telltale"

 

Several locals crews burn herbs to observe the smoke. If the smoke goes straight up they often aboundon racing and form a covers band.

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18 hours ago, LordBooster said:

Only Magic Bus and Seaply (Seaflyer) please my eye of the Whiting designs. He got to much into IOR distortions. Still none of his yachts should end up like this. But I like the German shepherd at the wheel. The Whiting design Riotous Assembly had IOR distortions...

 

assembly2download.jfif

That is my shot as I was at the regatta for the 1978 3/4 ton worlds in Victoria. That shot was for final IOR measuring. Crap build and didn't get for as it was set up for Swiftsure but it was blowing 35 knots or more on that day so the boat crushed the mast step if remembering correctly. So it never made it to the regatta.When we arrived after delivery to RVicYC it was dark and looked at that and went: WTF??? 

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35 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

That Whiting drawing the waterlines are not parallel to the design waterline, are they?

Davidson's description is apt.

Yes they both share general features but the Davison hullform is more balanced.

I wonder what the Curve of Areas looks like on the Whiting.

The Diagonals on the Whiting (only 3) aren't enough to see the real waterflow -- would be interesting to take others or same as LD hull for comparison.

Remember that with exception of running, that crease isn't in the water and the diagonals are what matters. Davidson's buttock angle is still nowhere near steep enough to create separation.

It is fun to post these together.

I believe they are. The stern freeboard is greater than the bow freeboard.

Diagonals can be used to maybe get an idea of the flow - but some designers used them mainly to fair the lines.  Diagonals usually aren't parallel to each other but tend to fan out.  From the looks of how the lower diagonal intersects the corners of the quasi chine, my guess is he was using it to locate the lateral position of the chine at each station. 

An interesting thing is that Davidson references the hollow bow sections in the Whiting designs, and indeed in photos it sure looks like it.  but if you put a straight edge up against the forward waterlines of NT, you will find no discernable hollow.

I agree that compared to Pendragon, NT has an unbalanced look - mainly due to the far aft location of BMAX (roughly between Stations 7&8) while Pendragon is roughly between Stations 6&7.  But Farr usually had a similarly far aft BMAX, but it didn't look as unbalanced because AGS wasn't as far forward (i.e. similar era Farrs such as Red Lion et al had less steeply sloping transoms and longer decks.  Just a visual thing.

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27 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

Sorry - that picture is of one of the Locura's. A Soveral design. 

Yes, but there was a link in my post to an old ad for Cadenza, which had  some nice photos of Cadenza in her glory days in Cali - which I believe is what he was referring to. 

I think the people who posted that old ad may have lifted them from DA-Woodys website.

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4 hours ago, fastyacht said:

That Whiting drawing the waterlines are not parallel to the design waterline, are they?

Davidson's description is apt.

Yes they both share general features but the Davison hullform is more balanced.

I wonder what the Curve of Areas looks like on the Whiting.

The Diagonals on the Whiting (only 3) aren't enough to see the real waterflow -- would be interesting to take others or same as LD hull for comparison.

Remember that with exception of running, that crease isn't in the water and the diagonals are what matters. Davidson's buttock angle is still nowhere near steep enough to create separation.

It is fun to post these together.

If you liked that - you will love this.  Photos of Pendragon and Riotous Assembly at RVic from the '78 3/4 Ton Worlds.  The photos are thanks to Maxx Baquestae from a thread last year about Pendragon being on the market.  In the stern shot of Pendragon in the slings, that is Laurie in the blue shirt on the right and I think that may be Paul Whiting on the left in the white shirt and sunglasses.  IDK, never actually met the guy but looks like what I have seen of him in a few photos.

Edit: just noticed in the third Pendragon photo you can see Riotous Assembly's stern in the near background.

001.thumb.jpg.a80be67c189a4bfff9ed3f3eba5ff368.jpg

002.thumb.jpg.f8950b834edb2a64fc0b43946d377aea.jpg

003.thumb.jpg.754edf514c422db385ae7fbcfd7174a6.jpg

001.thumb.jpg.5d932710a8f9ea134fa5338a8ce01882.jpg

002.thumb.jpg.df066caa53cd8015fc23726eedc317a6.jpg

003.thumb.jpg.5edd351a2edc37c1a6e7c63c83365e5e.jpg

005.thumb.jpg.b33653db3ec62685feb44a3c8e21e4cc.jpg

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57 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

If you liked that - you will love this.  Photos of Pendragon and Riotous Assembly at RVic from the '78 3/4 Ton Worlds.  The photos are thanks to Maxx Baquestae from a thread last year about Pendragon being on the market.  In the stern shot of Pendragon in the slings, that is Laurie in the blue shirt on the right and I think that may be Paul Whiting on the left in the white shirt and sunglasses.  IDK, never actually met the guy but looks like what I have seen of him in a few photos.

Edit: just noticed in the third Pendragon photo you can see Riotous Assembly's stern in the near background.

001.thumb.jpg.a80be67c189a4bfff9ed3f3eba5ff368.jpg

002.thumb.jpg.f8950b834edb2a64fc0b43946d377aea.jpg

003.thumb.jpg.754edf514c422db385ae7fbcfd7174a6.jpg

001.thumb.jpg.5d932710a8f9ea134fa5338a8ce01882.jpg

002.thumb.jpg.df066caa53cd8015fc23726eedc317a6.jpg

003.thumb.jpg.5edd351a2edc37c1a6e7c63c83365e5e.jpg

005.thumb.jpg.b33653db3ec62685feb44a3c8e21e4cc.jpg

Nice pictures. Must have been fun to be there. Listening to Laurie Davidson commenting on Paul Whiting's creations: “Paul Whiting’s designs are join up the dots boats and they aren’t pretty." One can just figure about Whiting's hypothetical comment about Davidson's: Laurie Davidson's has adopted my deep volume in the forward sections, but he has missed joining the dots correctly.

   

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7 hours ago, Phil said:

The demise of my favourite Davidson One Tonner.

 

 

Thanks for the video! Good that they survived. Diamond Cutter was successful: 

https://books.google.se/books?id=iv8mRFVSxBgC&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq="laurie+davidson"+yacht+diamond&source=bl&ots=aDjmnB-r1P&sig=ACfU3U3Gw9oaAsPwltSqZZsQSBHmOHhXzw&hl=sv&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjW4dLPoOHtAhUqposKHam7B6AQ6AEwEHoECBAQAg#v=onepage&q="laurie davidson" yacht diamond&f=false

“The Laurie Davidson-designed Diamond Cutter was on the winning New South Wales team.

 

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14 hours ago, LordBooster said:

Nice pictures. Must have been fun to be there. Listening to Laurie Davidson commenting on Paul Whiting's creations: “Paul Whiting’s designs are join up the dots boats and they aren’t pretty." One can just figure about Whiting's hypothetical comment about Davidson's: Laurie Davidson's has adopted my deep volume in the forward sections, but he has missed joining the dots correctly.

   

I was there for a month or more. Between Swiftsure before that and we were still bolting shit on the boat. Like I say - Ritous never got to the regatta because of damage at Swifsure. It was a very odd design anyway. In that picture of Pendragon shows Laurie just below that A-G dock sign at the club being measured. I have a picture of Laurie and Lowell North in the back of a pick up after sucking up a lot of the government hooch at a reception at Government House in Victoria in no pain. Poncho was there and we wandered around the place until we found the formal dining room that was velvet roped out. We just grabbed our "tumblers" of single malt and feet up on the table and drank until the Sgt. of Arms caught us! Too funny.

John Buchan won the regatta by half a point on his Brit Chance design against Pendragon. His son Carl was there and his teenage buddies - the McKees. I didn't know them at the time but I ended up racing with them for 10 years in Seattle and we have this great relationship to this day. I raced on Jonathan's Riptide 44 Dark Star twice on Straits race. It was Jonathan's Bday on the weekend and I was the first to give him my congrats via Wastebook.

I don't know if this will stick but we had a Mull 3/4 tonner built for the worlds in aluminum in North Vancouver. We didn't do well as the owner was in the process of moving his engineering firm to Portland and I didn't know much about full-on race boats; particularly one that was built out of aluminum!         

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36 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

...John Buchan won the regatta by half a point on his Brit Chance design against Pendragon. His son Carl was there and his teenage buddies - the McKees. I didn't know them at the time but I ended up racing with them for 10 years in Seattle and we have this great relationship to this day. I raced on Jonathan's Riptide 44 Dark Star twice on Straits race. It was Jonathan's Bday on the weekend and I was the first to give him my congrats via Wastebook....

 

I assume by regatta you are referring to the '78 3/4T Worlds.  In which case I think you may have that backwards.  North and Pendragon narrrowly beat Buchan and Sachem IIRC.

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4 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

I assume by regatta you are referring to the '78 3/4T Worlds.  In which case I think you may have that backwards.  North and Pendragon narrrowly beat Buchan and Sachem IIRC.

That could be. It was a long time ago and I might be mistaken. 

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 New Infidel was one of at least two Swampfire sisters at that championship. Impatience was done in C-Flex glass.

At a time of such rapid design change in the IOR I couldn't understand why people were building a 4 year old design, even if it had been a world champion. Back then even custom designs were sometimes obsolete before they were finished building.

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

This thread is like finding little pearls in your soup. The bit about Buchan makes me think of that so cool Star class movie that is on yt now where he beats North. The last of the Egyptian Cotton masters.

Now that you mention Buchan and Stars, I am reminded that I believe it was Bill, not John that owned Sachem.  Too many sailing Buchans out there to keep track of.

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Just now, Leeroy Jenkins said:

The Mull 34 I've seen around? 

FIFY

But yes, that Impatience.  Was advertised for dirt cheap a few months ago but apparently the deck was mush. 

As far as Mull and the 3/4T Worlds in '78, Clockwork Rocketship was also for sale maybe a year ago or less for much less - but she was in horrendous condition.  At least hygienically :o

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20 hours ago, LordBooster said:

Nice pictures. Must have been fun to be there. Listening to Laurie Davidson commenting on Paul Whiting's creations: “Paul Whiting’s designs are join up the dots boats and they aren’t pretty." One can just figure about Whiting's hypothetical comment about Davidson's: Laurie Davidson's has adopted my deep volume in the forward sections, but he has missed joining the dots correctly.

   

I was involved with Paul during the design of the Magic Bus, it was drawn from dots of a another boat's IOR certificate, then it was pulled and push. I made several trips to the computer at the BNZ in Victoria Street (the computer used for NZ IOR certs) working on the minimizing "L".

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4 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

No, it just smells funny.

It was basically brand new in that picture. The rig had just been put it. Mull did the design based on the 2 world champion 3/4 tonners. The build was done in the winter of '77 and launched in the spring of '78. Like I say: We were still bolting shit onto the boat when we arrived at Vic for the worlds. The build was done at a machine shop, W.A. Thom, connected to the owner's engineering company at the bottom of Fell Ave. North Vancouver. Similar to Jake Woods' Sorcery. A lot of the stuff done was in Jake's shop.

Impulse was out of RVicYC and didn't come to the regatta. A bit odd but?  Charlie Walsh had one in Seattle and went on with his Peterson design 2 tonners.

Do understand Mull was a big tumblehome guy so both of those had that. In our boat, in those days, we didn't have the technology to do it that way in aluminum. In Canada anyway. 

001 (1280x893).jpg

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20 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

It was basically brand new in that picture. The rig had just been put it. Mull did the design based on the 2 world champion 3/4 tonners. The build was done in the winter of '77 and launched in the spring of '78. Like I say: We were still bolting shit onto the boat when we arrived at Vic for the worlds. The build was done at a machine shop, W.A. Thom, connected to the owner's engineering company at the bottom of Fell Ave. North Vancouver. Similar to Jake Woods' Sorcery. A lot of the stuff done was in Jake's shop.

Impulse was out of RVicYC and didn't come to the regatta. A bit odd but?  Charlie Walsh had one in Seattle and went on with his Peterson design 2 tonners.

Do understand Mull was a big tumblehome guy so both of those had that. In our boat, in those days, we didn't have the technology to do it that way in aluminum. In Canada anyway. 

001 (1280x893).jpg

Slap on some duct tape and she's good to go.

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1 hour ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

It was basically brand new in that picture. The rig had just been put it. Mull did the design based on the 2 world champion 3/4 tonners. The build was done in the winter of '77 and launched in the spring of '78. Like I say: We were still bolting shit onto the boat when we arrived at Vic for the worlds. The build was done at a machine shop, W.A. Thom, connected to the owner's engineering company at the bottom of Fell Ave. North Vancouver. Similar to Jake Woods' Sorcery. A lot of the stuff done was in Jake's shop.

Impulse was out of RVicYC and didn't come to the regatta. A bit odd but?  Charlie Walsh had one in Seattle and went on with his Peterson design 2 tonners.

Do understand Mull was a big tumblehome guy so both of those had that. In our boat, in those days, we didn't have the technology to do it that way in aluminum. In Canada anyway. 

001 (1280x893).jpg

This is great.

Are those buckles amidships or just photo artifacts? Did the shop put the plates on an english wheel? Those are big plates and the curvature looks pretty good!

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33 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

This is great.

Are those buckles amidships or just photo artifacts? Did the shop put the plates on an english wheel? Those are big plates and the curvature looks pretty good!

No idea about this picture but it looks just like what happens when our welders but too much heat into a thin wall panel.

JJ

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5 hours ago, SloopJohnB said:

I was involved with Paul during the design of the Magic Bus, it was drawn from dots of a another boat's IOR certificate, then it was pulled and push. I made several trips to the computer at the BNZ in Victoria Street (the computer used for NZ IOR certs) working on the minimizing "L".

Obviously, Davidson was correct about Whiting's creations being "joining the dots boats". Whiting seems to be fun to work with. At least early in his career. Every loophole of the IOR was said to have been investigated by Whiting. I figure Murray Ross must have felt rather stressed when that forward mounted prop, of Smackwater Jack" opened up at the one-ton cup in New Zealand -77 ? Imagine the first sound of the prop going wide-open: "Zwocka!". Then, it starts to rotate transmitting vibrations to the hull:"Zlaaaba-daaaba-zlaaba-daaba-zlabba-dabba!".

http://rbsailing.blogspot.com/2012/12/smackwater-jack-whiting-one-tonner.html

"The Cup regatta started disastrously for the crew, with the yacht again having to retire from the opening race, this time with a propeller that refused to close." 

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11 hours ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

I was there for a month or more. Between Swiftsure before that and we were still bolting shit on the boat. Like I say - Ritous never got to the regatta because of damage at Swifsure. It was a very odd design anyway. In that picture of Pendragon shows Laurie just below that A-G dock sign at the club being measured. I have a picture of Laurie and Lowell North in the back of a pick up after sucking up a lot of the government hooch at a reception at Government House in Victoria in no pain. Poncho was there and we wandered around the place until we found the formal dining room that was velvet roped out. We just grabbed our "tumblers" of single malt and feet up on the table and drank until the Sgt. of Arms caught us! Too funny.

John Buchan won the regatta by half a point on his Brit Chance design against Pendragon. His son Carl was there and his teenage buddies - the McKees. I didn't know them at the time but I ended up racing with them for 10 years in Seattle and we have this great relationship to this day. I raced on Jonathan's Riptide 44 Dark Star twice on Straits race. It was Jonathan's Bday on the weekend and I was the first to give him my congrats via Wastebook.

I don't know if this will stick but we had a Mull 3/4 tonner built for the worlds in aluminum in North Vancouver. We didn't do well as the owner was in the process of moving his engineering firm to Portland and I didn't know much about full-on race boats; particularly one that was built out of aluminum!         

[013826].jpg

[013828].jpg

IMG_20200928_0001.jpg

IMG_20200928_0003.jpg

Yes, brings back memories of being young. No prostate issues, no PSA values to checked, no Ben Johnson starting position at the doctors. Anyway, was it Sachem by Brit Chance, Jr? Those Buchans with at least two Olympic Gold medals. Bill in the Star and Eric (Carl?) in the 470.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

I've spent five weeks literally at the North Pole, average temp -40, but I've never been as cold in my life as being below on an aluminum '53 Frers  at Cove in a Mac Race.

You seem to be unfortunate. Anything positive whatsoever going on, that cheer you up?

 

 

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9 hours ago, LordBooster said:

Yes, brings back memories of being young. No prostate issues, no PSA values to checked, no Ben Johnson starting position at the doctors. Anyway, was it Sachem by Brit Chance, Jr? Those Buchans with at least two Olympic Gold medals. Bill in the Star and Eric (Carl?) in the 470.

 

 

Yes, it was a Brit Chance design. It had a daggerboard or something? Didn't last as a race boat much except the worlds. There was an upheaval in the IOR afterward. I lot of changes to the rule. I only see "Hagar" still out there racing from that era. Bill and Carl (I have raced with Carl) won an Olympic gold medal in the FD's. But however, they did pretty well with Stars (world champions) and many other classes. Carl and Jonathan McKee won gold in '84 on the FD's too. I'm honoured to sail with them, particularly Jonathan, that I raced with for many years. 

Frankly, Pendragon changed everything. This one was the first of many owned by John McLaurin. A long and good relationship with Laurie. That same Pendragon had a bow sprit add to it and turned around the 1-ton worlds in the following year.    

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3 hours ago, LordBooster said:

Seems to be a lot  aluminum welding expertise here. Good.

 

I think the buckling was just an optical illusion. The welders were good in their craft but the design/build had its work cut out for itself. Lighter plate in the topside areas and we were able to make the plates bigger. Not so much as moved back in the design and the bottom you had to shape it with smaller plates; specifically for the contortions of the IOR. Like the VHA stations etc.

What did I know? I was just a helper and what was told how this is supposed to work. I guess I was pretty lucky to be involved (at that time) a state of the art build.    

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6 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

I think the buckling was just an optical illusion. The welders were good in their craft but the design/build had its work cut out for itself. Lighter plate in the topside areas and we were able to make the plates bigger. Not so much as moved back in the design and the bottom you had to shape it with smaller plates; specifically for the contortions of the IOR. Like the VHA stations etc.

What did I know? I was just a helper and what was told how this is supposed to work. I guess I was pretty lucky to be involved (at that time) a state of the art build.    

Yes, the welders probably know what they were doing.

 

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19 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

Yes, it was a Brit Chance design. It had a daggerboard or something? Didn't last as a race boat much except the worlds. There was an upheaval in the IOR afterward. I lot of changes to the rule. I only see "Hagar" still out there racing from that era. Bill and Carl (I have raced with Carl) won an Olympic gold medal in the FD's. But however, they did pretty well with Stars (world champions) and many other classes. Carl and Jonathan McKee won gold in '84 on the FD's too. I'm honoured to sail with them, particularly Jonathan, that I raced with for many years. 

Frankly, Pendragon changed everything. This one was the first of many owned by John McLaurin. A long and good relationship with Laurie. That same Pendragon had a bow sprit add to it and turned around the 1-ton worlds in the following year.    

I can see you have written a lot about this, very interesting reading:

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/122235-bchance-jr-design-boats/

Yea, Pendragon it is:

http://rbsailing.blogspot.com/2013/01/pendragon-davidson-34.html

 

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16 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

Yes, it was a Brit Chance design. It had a daggerboard or something? Didn't last as a race boat much except the worlds. There was an upheaval in the IOR afterward. I lot of changes to the rule. I only see "Hagar" still out there racing from that era. Bill and Carl (I have raced with Carl) won an Olympic gold medal in the FD's. But however, they did pretty well with Stars (world champions) and many other classes. Carl and Jonathan McKee won gold in '84 on the FD's too. I'm honoured to sail with them, particularly Jonathan, that I raced with for many years. 

Frankly, Pendragon changed everything. This one was the first of many owned by John McLaurin. A long and good relationship with Laurie. That same Pendragon had a bow sprit add to it and turned around the 1-ton worlds in the following year.    

I think there are a few more.  Amazing Grace, Will o'the Wisp are a couple I can think of.  Or are they a later era?  

I raced PITCH on Sitka against Hagar BITD.  We were smoked.  That was the beginning the IOR fractional-rig dominance IIRC.

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19 minutes ago, johnsonjay17 said:

In my case less aluminum and more carbon and Stainless Steel welding. 

JJ

Yea, hope you did (in Swedish "purra") those welds. I guess "purra" means that one hit the weld with a small hammer to impose compression on the weld. But I guess it is so expensive that it can not be done nowadays.

 

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30 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

I think there are a few more.  Amazing Grace, Will o'the Wisp are a couple I can think of.  Or are they a later era?  

I raced PITCH on Sitka against Hagar BITD.  We were smoked.  That was the beginning the IOR fractional-rig dominance IIRC.

I raced on Gracie and Wisp in the latter days. Not close to new. Both of those were early '80's build. 

Sitka was originally was Gogama hailed out of RVYC. Ya, they were at that regatta. A pretty decent result if I remember correctly. 5th maybe? There was Clockwork Rocketship (a later Mull design) and sailed out of TYC with Al Whitfield when he had it well after the fact from the worlds and change owners. 

Yes, I'm slut but you know that Rain Man? 

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6 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

I raced on Gracie and Wisp in the latter days. Not close to new. Both of those were early '80's build. 

Sitka was originally was Gogama hailed out of RVYC. Ya, they were at that regatta. A pretty decent result if I remember correctly. 5th maybe? There was Clockwork Rocketship (a later Mull design) and sailed out of TYC with Al Whitfield when he had it well after the fact from the worlds and change owners. 

Yes, I'm slut but you know that Rain Man? 

Sitka is still being kept up.  I trolled the docks at Heather not long ago and bumped into John working on her.  She still looks great.  That was a quality build. 

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1 hour ago, Rain Man said:

Sitka is still being kept up.  I trolled the docks at Heather not long ago and bumped into John working on her.  She still looks great.  That was a quality build. 

That's good,  it looked like she was anchored in False Creek for a few months and I thought it was the end of the line like so many others. 

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1 hour ago, ROADKILL666 said:

When do the IMS landfills start up?

Fell free to start it up yourself. Just an idea about a combo: "landfill and roadkill"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Measurement_System

Seems it started to decline about year 2000, so I guess about year 2030 is about right for a kick-off of the IMS.

Now let's see about tasty roadkill:  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadkill_cuisine

 

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1 hour ago, LordBooster said:

Fell free to start it up yourself. Just an idea about a combo: "landfill and roadkill"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Measurement_System

Seems it started to decline about year 2000, so I guess about year 2030 is about right for a kick-off of the IMS.

Now let's see about tasty roadkill:  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadkill_cuisine

 

I like my Roadkill with hot sauce 

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Every time I see the term "Roadkill" I'm reminded of the Newhart episode where Larry, Darryl and the other brother Darryl had opened a restaurant and they had to leave Newhart's to get out to the Interstate to see what that night's special was going to be.

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5 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Sitka is still being kept up.  I trolled the docks at Heather not long ago and bumped into John working on her.  She still looks great.  That was a quality build. 

Well it was a Chaser build. Not a Donny special. 

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3 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

That's good,  it looked like she was anchored in False Creek for a few months and I thought it was the end of the line like so many others. 

It was back in February I think that I saw her - has she been out at anchor since?  Could be things have changed.  

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1 hour ago, Rain Man said:

It was back in February I think that I saw her - has she been out at anchor since?  Could be things have changed.  

I'm guessing May/June to October was when I noticed Sitka anchored around Charleson park.  Moved around once in a while - out to English Bay when necessary. Seemed like a much nicer boat than the other "locals", but they don't often stay that way in there.  

Let's hope she's in a nice slip somewhere. 

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