Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.9k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

It was an odd time the late IOR period. Fantastic fleets, great racing and many beautiful looking boats that were absolute cunts of things to sail. Back them most  owners actually knew how to sail and

Having renovated an IOR 1-tonner, I feel obliged to point out that there are way cheaper ways to get a tidy boat on to a start line

My old Two Tonner HEATHER designed for and built by John Buchan. HEATHER is now a live aboard cruising boat in south Puget Sound.

Posted Images

59 minutes ago, LordBooster said:

Yea, "75% stronger and deforms 88% less". Warp orientation, cool. Does weft orientation work? Can one buy such cloth?

 

 

Um, all cross-cut sails are fill (weft) oriented....

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, LordBooster said:

Yea, but the fill doesn't have very good fatigue properties. Compare Hood's half width clooth.

 

 

I remember when the "new big thing" was warp oriented sails in the 80s. "Hey, wait a minute, didnt Herreshoff do that?"  Yep. I thought that was so funny at the time. What comes around goes around. The cross-cut made shaping easier. But wasnt better for stretch.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

I remember when the "new big thing" was warp oriented sails in the 80s. "Hey, wait a minute, didnt Herreshoff do that?"  Yep. I thought that was so funny at the time. What comes around goes around. The cross-cut made shaping easier. But wasnt better for stretch.

In the 80s, not many of us guessed that the gaff rig would make a comeback at the front of the racing fleet

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder how soon Emeraude is going to end up in the landfill?  Its been rotting in Kewalo Basin for about 30 years now.  I dont think it even does charters any more.  Used to do sunset cruises in the 90s, but I dont think it has left the dock since the 2000's.  Its a wonder that someone is paying its slip fee in such a prime location.

30265317_10155556395177947_5497999627158290432_n.jpg

30531100_10155556395227947_5821341970840158208_n.jpg

30415296_10155556395237947_4792662432608681984_n.jpg

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a floating platform of spare parts. I did some winch repair work on her in Kewalo, a long time ago. Perhaps the hull could be re-used, but everything else is dead. She is un sailable in her current condition, spar & rigging aged out decades ago. Shit, the boom is about 7' off the deck, you need stepladders to flake the main - along with 15 helpers. No new sails since her racing days - or anything else.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

I wonder how soon Emeraude is going to end up in the landfill?  Its been rotting in Kewalo Basin for about 30 years now.  I dont think it even does charters any more.  Used to do sunset cruises in the 90s, but I dont think it has left the dock since the 2000's.  Its a wonder that someone is paying its slip fee in such a prime location.

30265317_10155556395177947_5497999627158290432_n.jpg

30531100_10155556395227947_5821341970840158208_n.jpg

30415296_10155556395237947_4792662432608681984_n.jpg

 

O dear!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

In the 80s, not many of us guessed that the gaff rig would make a comeback at the front of the racing fleet

Really, must be a generic one: "gaff rig would make a comeback at the front of the racing fleet"

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fazisi maxi designed by Vlad Murnikov

https://aif.by/timefree/uvlechenie/yahta_fazisi_grodnenec_vosstanavlivaet_legendarnuyu_sovetskuyu_yahtu

“September 2, 1989. In Southampton, England, a round-the-world regatta on sailing yachts "Whitbread" (now the Volvo Ocean Race) started. Among the 23 participants was a Soviet racing ocean-going yacht-debutant called "Fazisi" (the ancient name of the Georgian river Rioni, which was considered the eastern limit of sea navigation”

“At my own expense, I bought the skeleton and the wreckage, and began to restore it. While I am at the initial stage. There are no clear plans. A thorough restoration will require more than a million dollars, and if you put the ship in the form of a monument on the ground - one hundred thousand. But I don't lose hope, I am looking for funds.”

https://stephenswaring.com/thinking-back-on-fazisi/

 

fasizi2d5884557cc838cc6e6b54474a500461.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I went aboard Fazizi in Philadelphia. I met some fabled Russian sailors that day. Around the same time I met Vlad at the Atlantic City Expo, when he was first introducing the little boat with the swordfish bill.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, fastyacht said:

I went aboard Fazizi in Philadelphia. I met some fabled Russian sailors that day. Around the same time I met Vlad at the Atlantic City Expo, when he was first introducing the little boat with the swordfish bill.

I bought a T-shirt and paid what they were asking to go for a short daysail, in Wilmington NC. It was cool, the sailors were hard core beyond hard core. The boat was like a cross between a sci-fi movie set and a WW1 submarine. Everything was rough metal edges. Plus the cabin... well, the condition of the cabin has been described by better SA'ers than me so let's just leave that little piece of history.

FB- Doug

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a Silver Apple for sale again in Oregon, although I don't think it is one of the Ron Holland ones - the stern and transom look all wrong.  Maybe a N/M? 

Asking price down to $6k.  A lot of work to finish this project off - but without the rig and sails - it puts her in the category of "free is too much"  

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/d/portland-1981one-ton-class-ior-sailboat/7258311294.html

Silver Apple.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

There is a Silver Apple for sale again in Oregon, although I don't think it is one of the Ron Holland ones - the stern and transom look all wrong.  Maybe a N/M? 

Asking price down to $6k.  A lot of work to finish this project off - but without the rig and sails - it puts her in the category of "free is too much"  

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/d/portland-1981one-ton-class-ior-sailboat/7258311294.html

Silver Apple.jpg

Could be a Holland:

No photo description available.

The parts that CL boat comes with are worth much more than the asking price.  I'd be surprised if someone doesn't pick it up and sell the parts and trash the hull.  Mast is in storage according to the ad BTW, so the rig is there but it says there is no "rigging" which could mean standing or running.  Who knows?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rain Man said:

Could be a Holland:

No photo description available.

The parts that CL boat comes with are worth much more than the asking price.  I'd be surprised if someone doesn't pick it up and sell the parts and trash the hull.  Mast is in storage according to the ad BTW, so the rig is there but it says there is no "rigging" which could mean standing or running.  Who knows?

I see what you're saying about the stern - but Charley was an IOR sled so one might expect a wider stern counter with minimal or no deadrise.

These are the RH Silver Apples circa 1979 - except of course the last one.

The ad says the rigging, spreaders, winches, and sails not included.  I imagine they could all be included - but for additional cost.  Sounds like the owner is basically parting it out now - or willing to.

Sliver Apple of the Moon 1979.jpg

Silver Apple of the Moon.jpg

Siver A les deux.jpg

Silver, 20 janv, Goerge Isted, IOR.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 12 metre said:

There is a Silver Apple for sale again in Oregon, although I don't think it is one of the Ron Holland ones - the stern and transom look all wrong.  Maybe a N/M? 

Asking price down to $6k.  A lot of work to finish this project off - but without the rig and sails - it puts her in the category of "free is too much"  

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/d/portland-1981one-ton-class-ior-sailboat/7258311294.html

Silver Apple.jpg

Not completely impossible for that to be a holland stern (picture flipped to match orientation....)

 

Imp_5.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

 

Sliver Apple of the Moon 1979.jpg

So much energy wasted pushing water out of the way.... it looks like the boat isn't even moving!

Blooper deployed so getting close to a scorching 8.75 knots

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Could be a Holland:

No photo description available.

The parts that CL boat comes with are worth much more than the asking price.  I'd be surprised if someone doesn't pick it up and sell the parts and trash the hull.  Mast is in storage according to the ad BTW, so the rig is there but it says there is no "rigging" which could mean standing or running.  Who knows?

Nice yacht!

Can be a Ron Holland...

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Liquid said:

So much energy wasted pushing water out of the way.... it looks like the boat isn't even moving!

Blooper deployed so getting close to a scorching 8.75 knots

Yea, it seems that the yacht is held back somehow. But in next frame perhaps it turns on the afterburner...

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, 12 metre said:

There is a Silver Apple for sale again in Oregon, although I don't think it is one of the Ron Holland ones - the stern and transom look all wrong.  Maybe a N/M? 

Asking price down to $6k.  A lot of work to finish this project off - but without the rig and sails - it puts her in the category of "free is too much"  

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/d/portland-1981one-ton-class-ior-sailboat/7258311294.html

Silver Apple.jpg

Geraghty built N/M 41 perhaps, with some minor deck mods.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LordBooster said:

Nice yacht!

Can be a Ron Holland...

Charley was famous for losing it's keel - returning from Transpac IIRC.

That was almost unheard of back then, not the routine gear failure it has become in recent years.

Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Charley was famous for losing it's keel - returning from Transpac IIRC.

That was almost unheard of back then, not the routine gear failure it has become in recent years.

Photos from -85. Is it her?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LordBooster said:

Nice yacht!

Can be a Ron Holland...

Charley was a RH.  Holland IOR sled.  Owned by Nolan Bushnell of Atari fame.  Keel dropped off on the return from Hawaii.  Made it back safely though.   The photos you linked to are definitely Charley - so I assume she is still around.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Charley was famous for losing it's keel - returning from Transpac IIRC.

That was almost unheard of back then, not the routine gear failure it has become in recent years.

 Perhaps she lost the keel. But similar to DRUM the hull needs not to be bad. Any idea?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Charley was a RH.  Holland IOR sled.  Owned by Nolan Bushnell of Atari fame.  Keel dropped off on the return from Hawaii.  Made it back safely though.   The photos you linked to are definitely Charley - so I assume she is still around.

Can the simple answer be that the "Silver Apple" shown is identical to Charley?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, LordBooster said:

Can the simple answer be that the "Silver Apple" shown is identical to Charley?

 

Not even remotely.  The one in the ad is around 40 ft LOA while Charlie is 67 ft LOA

The Silver Apple in the ad simply says a "One Tonner" - doesn't mention the designer although the name Silver Apple is best associated with RH

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is for a sick old sea dog who needed to see some more vintage pics after seeing my Barbara Eden find on page one. It’s not actually thread drift, just an intermission.

9AC3043E-F80E-4A7C-9371-46C9BE069E49.jpeg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Silver Apple, Big Apple, Golden Apple were all RH Admiral's cup boats around 44' IIRC - sisters or close to Marionette.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Sail4beer said:

This is for a sick old sea dog who needed to see some more vintage pics after seeing my Barbara Eden find on page one. It’s not actually thread drift, just an intermission.

9AC3043E-F80E-4A7C-9371-46C9BE069E49.jpeg

Looks like Wonder Woman but she never showed hers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Not even remotely.  The one in the ad is around 40 ft LOA while Charlie is 67 ft LOA

The Silver Apple in the ad simply says a "One Tonner" - doesn't mention the designer although the name Silver Apple is best associated with RH

Sistership to the design by Carl Schumacher WALL STREET DUCK? Impact or other?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

This is for a sick old sea dog who needed to see some more vintage pics after seeing my Barbara Eden find on page one. It’s not actually thread drift, just an intermission.

 

That soft-focus look is so 1980´s. They even made special portrait lenses that produce it. Time before photoshop.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

She did a few times. 
Heres a screen grab from a video clip I just watched.

Here’s a fake below

90C63640-6830-4BA4-8C75-A9DE9403ABAA.jpeg

76C94DB6-298A-4BC6-8DE5-0CFC21BBB710.jpeg

She was as close to perfect as makes no difference.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LordBooster said:

Sistership to the design by Carl Schumacher WALL STREET DUCK? Impact or other?

 

Nope.

WSD was 38 ft LOA and bore a resemblance to the Express 37 IIRC.  Google only came up with the photo below - although there were a few more when she was on Seattle CL a few years ago.

WSD.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Nope.

WSD was 38 ft LOA and bore a resemblance to the Express 37 IIRC.  Google only came up with the photo below - although there were a few more when she was on Seattle CL a few years ago.

WSD.png

Last I heard WSD was still up at Bett's waiting for some love.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

"Plenty" is a bit of an exaggeration. I remember when Merlin and Drifter appeared on the Transpac scene - and all the discussion about "one way boats" and the importance of windward performance to an offshore boat. Santa Cruz was not the norm.

People forget that the IOR essentially changed the design norm from full keels to fin keels.

Lots of fins were around well before it but they were generally regarded as rather extreme and not really fit for offshore use. CCA & RORC boats were almost all some form of full keel.

Not IOR but an illustration of the attitudes back then was the reception the Maestro received for the Valiant 40 - dangerously light and the fin was not a seaworthy hull form.

Laughable now but it was a widely held attitude then. Full displacement hull forms were the only type "fit" for offshore use. Ultralight started at a D/L of 100

I wuz there and trust me - 9 knots was blazingly fast for "small" boats

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Only in IOR-land. Outside of that dystopia, there were plenty of boats which didn't dig holes.

That may be true to an extent - but such boats usually couldn't go uphill worth a shit.  Which is where IOR boats typically excelled.

Downwind speed may be fun - and make great GoPro videos to post on Youtube.  But IMO the upwind legs are where most inshore races are won or lost.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 12 metre said:
10 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Only in IOR-land. Outside of that dystopia, there were plenty of boats which didn't dig holes.

That may be true to an extent - but such boats usually couldn't go uphill worth a shit.  Which is where IOR boats typically excelled.

Downwind speed may be fun - and make great GoPro videos to post on Youtube.  But IMO the upwind legs are where most inshore races are won or lost.

So the International Offshore Rule produce boats optimised for inshore racing.  Genius, eh?

70s eras ULDBs tended to be one-tick pony downwind fliers, but that's largely because they optimised for downwind races such as the Transpac. As the TP52s showed a generation later, ULBDs could also be fine upwind boats if that is part of the design brief and the rating system doesn't actively crucify them.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

As the TP52s showed a generation later,

Maybe a human generation but about 5 generations of boat design.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

So the International Offshore Rule produce boats optimised for inshore racing.  Genius, eh?

70s eras ULDBs tended to be one-tick pony downwind fliers, but that's largely because they optimised for downwind races such as the Transpac. As the TP52s showed a generation later, ULBDs could also be fine upwind boats if that is part of the design brief and the rating system doesn't actively crucify them.

Well actually IOR was intended to handicap the racer/cruiser designs of the day.  It was the designers who optimized them for inshore racing because back in those days, that was pretty much the only thing that counted.  There was Transpac, Fastnet, S/H and a handful of other distance races - but there was no Whitbread or the like until the 80's.  The races making headlines back then were the likes of the Ton Cups, AC, SORC, Kenwood Cup, Canada's Cup, etc.  All inshore type racing. 

So designing for the dominant form of racing at the time - then yes genius on the part of the designers.

I didn't say that modern boats like a TP52 can't be made to go both ways - you were the one who used the past term "Only in IOR-land. Outside of that dystopia, there were plenty of boats which didn't dig holes."  If you had said "there are plenty of boats that don't dig holes" then I would have agreed with you. 

But it is silly to compare the past with the present.  It's kind of like saying modern F1 cars are so much better than a Lotus 72.  While that is true but so what? No ones trying to qualify a 72 in an F1 race today and it doesn't take away the fact it was a groundbreaking design and the fastest F1 car of it's era.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Well actually IOR was intended to handicap the racer/cruiser designs of the day.  It was the designers who optimized them for inshore racing because back in those days, that was pretty much the only thing that counted.  There was Transpac, Fastnet, S/H and a handful of other distance races - but there was no Whitbread or the like until the 80's.  The races making headlines back then were the likes of the Ton Cups, AC, SORC, Kenwood Cup, Canada's Cup, etc.  All inshore type racing. 

So designing for the dominant form of racing at the time - then yes genius on the part of the designers.

I didn't say that modern boats like a TP52 can't be made to go both ways - you were the one who used the past term "Only in IOR-land. Outside of that dystopia, there were plenty of boats which didn't dig holes."  If you had said "there are plenty of boats that don't dig holes" then I would have agreed with you. 

But it is silly to compare the past with the present.  It's kind of like saying modern F1 cars are so much better than a Lotus 72.  While that is true but so what? No ones trying to qualify a 72 in an F1 race today and it doesn't take away the fact it was a groundbreaking design and the fastest F1 car of it's era.

Splendid: "No ones trying to qualify a 72 in an F1 race today and it doesn't take away the fact it was a groundbreaking design and the fastest F1 car of it's era."

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Not IOR but an illustration of the attitudes back then was the reception the Maestro received for the Valiant 40 - dangerously light and the fin was not a seaworthy hull form.

Laughable now but it was a widely held attitude then. Full displacement hull forms were the only type "fit" for offshore use. Ultralight started at a D/L of 100

I remember IOR boat owners back in 82/83 telling me the Dash 34 we bought was going to fall apart, unsafe, built too lightly, etc. etc. To be sure, I would not have taken it offshore without modifications (ring frames, bulkhead and keel grid reinforcement etc.) but the boat is still sound 39 years into its life - now with new owners.  We raced that boat hard for many years.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rain Man said:

I remember IOR boat owners back in 82/83 telling me the Dash 34 we bought was going to fall apart, unsafe, built too lightly, etc. etc. To be sure, I would not have taken it offshore without modifications (ring frames, bulkhead and keel grid reinforcement etc.) but the boat is still sound 39 years into its life - now with new owners.  We raced that boat hard for many years.

You're absolutely right Rain Man.

Oddly enough I forgot about boats like the Dash 34 and Ross 930.  Odd because - as you know - ironically enough I have a Dash, albeit in bits and pieces and have never actually sailed her.  I have sailed on a few others though.

They can certainly hang in upwind.  Never felt they to have real break out speed downwind although they can certainly reel in bigger boats downwind in 8+ kts downwind.

Of course AK can sail to her much lower PHRF of 68 while a stock Dash is about level with a Peterson 35.

I've always wondered how fast a Dash could be with more righting moment and AK type mods.  Maybe close to an FT10?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

You're absolutely right Rain Man.

Oddly enough I forgot about boats like the Dash 34 and Ross 930.  Odd because - as you know - ironically enough I have a Dash, albeit in bits and pieces and have never actually sailed her.  I have sailed on a few others though.

They can certainly hang in upwind.  Never felt they to have real break out speed downwind although they can certainly reel in bigger boats downwind in 8+ kts downwind.

Of course AK can sail to her much lower PHRF of 68 while a stock Dash is about level with a Peterson 35.

I've always wondered how fast a Dash could be with more righting moment and AK type mods.  Maybe close to an FT10?

Add a carbon rig and rigging, better foils, fathead main, masthead asym and remove all non-essential weight, and the boat would be very fast.  The limiting factor is the hull, which wasn't vacuum bagged during build and is too heavy to be really fast.  Add enough ballast to solve the righting moment problem and the boat is overall too heavy to be quick.  CBTF?

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Add a carbon rig and rigging, better foils, fathead main, masthead asym and remove all non-essential weight, and the boat would be very fast.  The limiting factor is the hull, which wasn't vacuum bagged during build and is too heavy to be really fast.  Add enough ballast to solve the righting moment problem and the boat is overall too heavy to be quick.  CBTF?

Well AK has done most if not all of the rig and sail plan alterations you suggest.  RM issues could be solved without adding weight by either a  T-keel or upside down keel similar to the Davidson 29 - which has the same weight but much lower VCG than the trapezoidal one on the Dash.  The trapezoidal keel was one of the developments of IOR that unfortunately caught on as a racy look with a lot of  production boats.  An efficient planform - but results in a high VCG

I mentioned the upside down keel idea to Ross when we were out sail testing a J/29 and he said that funnily enough Juan K. suggested an upside down keel back in the day when Ross had a Dash.

Link to post
Share on other sites

WSD is rotting away in Anacortes, WA, an old friend and former North Sails guy who is now into Alfa Romeos owns her, asked me if I want to be a partner and I ran away as fast as my old limbs would allow me. I walked up a ladder and walked on the deck, was careful not to fall through.   Very sad ending to a great Schumacher boat.  Owned an Express 37 for 10 years, a magic boat.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, 12 metre said:

 there was no Whitbread or the like until the 80's. 

Not the best example - The Whitbread started in '73 and was won by a Swan 65 - an IOR design.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Not the best example - The Whitbread started in '73 and was won by a Swan 65 - an IOR design.

Yup...I had a major brain fart there.  Sayula II of course.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, zenmasterfred said:

WSD is rotting away in Anacortes, WA, an old friend and former North Sails guy who is now into Alfa Romeos owns her, asked me if I want to be a partner and I ran away as fast as my old limbs would allow me. I walked up a ladder and walked on the deck, was careful not to fall through.   Very sad ending to a great Schumacher boat.  Owned an Express 37 for 10 years, a magic boat.

Really sad about WSD. When was WSD designed, perhaps -81?

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, LordBooster said:

Really sad about WSD. When was WSD designed, perhaps -81?

From an old article in Latitude-38

Carl's best effort in this direction so far has been the 38-ft Wall Street Duck, built for Tiburon's Jim Robinson. In 1982 Robinson had plans to move up from a J/24 to a 45-ft IOR machine, but then decided something a little smaller might be better. Dee Smith and Chris Corlett, who were working with him, didn't think Carl was ready for the bigger boat, but called him when Jim decided on something that could win him the Danforth and Stone Cup series here on the Bay and also do well in the TransPac. They also consulted with - who else? - Doug Peterson, but Robinson was willing to take a calculated gamble on the Alamedan.

The Duck represents an extension of the same concepts that went into Summertime Dream, except the stern is a bit more pinched in for a rating advantage. The boat has proven itself to be dynamite, winning the Stone Cup twice, the Danforth Series twice, the Big Daddy regatta and the San Francisco Challenge Cup match race earlier this spring. A broken rudder in the 1983 TransPac quashed any hopes of doing well there, but they were moving up rapidly in their class standings when the mishap occurred.

Old thread here: Wall Street Duck - Sailing Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, sledracr said:

From an old article in Latitude-38

Carl's best effort in this direction so far has been the 38-ft Wall Street Duck, built for Tiburon's Jim Robinson. In 1982 Robinson had plans to move up from a J/24 to a 45-ft IOR machine, but then decided something a little smaller might be better. Dee Smith and Chris Corlett, who were working with him, didn't think Carl was ready for the bigger boat, but called him when Jim decided on something that could win him the Danforth and Stone Cup series here on the Bay and also do well in the TransPac. They also consulted with - who else? - Doug Peterson, but Robinson was willing to take a calculated gamble on the Alamedan.

The Duck represents an extension of the same concepts that went into Summertime Dream, except the stern is a bit more pinched in for a rating advantage. The boat has proven itself to be dynamite, winning the Stone Cup twice, the Danforth Series twice, the Big Daddy regatta and the San Francisco Challenge Cup match race earlier this spring. A broken rudder in the 1983 TransPac quashed any hopes of doing well there, but they were moving up rapidly in their class standings when the mishap occurred.

Old thread here: Wall Street Duck - Sailing Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

 

Well done: "They also consulted with - who else? - Doug Peterson, but Robinson was willing to take a calculated gamble on the Alamedan."

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, 12 metre said:

That may be true to an extent - but such boats usually couldn't go uphill worth a shit.  Which is where IOR boats typically excelled.

Downwind speed may be fun - and make great GoPro videos to post on Youtube.  But IMO the upwind legs are where most inshore races are won or lost.

Don’t forget the Scandinavian answer. Slim, light agile descendants of the square meter classes that went uphill even better than the tonners and did not roll downwind. Not many that made it to the US, but over here boats like  H-Boat, BB10, Ylva, Karavel, Molich X Meter, Swede 55, or, to some extend, Aphrodite 101, Senorita Helmsman, International 10.06, Concorde 38 or Luffe 37 are still kicking it from the Baltic to the alpine lakes. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, 10thTonner said:

Don’t forget the Scandinavian answer. Slim, light agile descendants of the square meter classes that went uphill even better than the tonners and did not roll downwind. Not many that made it to the US, but over here boats like  H-Boat, BB10, Ylva, Karavel, Molich X Meter, Swede 55, or, to some extend, Aphrodite 101, Senorita Helmsman, International 10.06, Concorde 38 or Luffe 37 are still kicking it from the Baltic to the alpine lakes. 

Yes, don't forget Lotus and Knud Reimers S30.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not sure but the new Wonder Woman may use a 3Di material for a sportier flogging main. The IOR Diana used a lesser polymer material aloft and relied more on well constructed bloopers for balance. 

Screen Shot 2021-01-11 at 12.05.33 PM.png

Screen_Shot_2021-01-11_at_12_09.10_PM.png

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Yup...I had a major brain fart there.  Sayula II of course.

Yup. My long time friend and racing mate"Poncho" was on the boat too. Yes, they won! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 10thTonner said:

Don’t forget the Scandinavian answer. Slim, light agile descendants of the square meter classes that went uphill even better than the tonners and did not roll downwind. Not many that made it to the US, but over here boats like  H-Boat, BB10, Ylva, Karavel, Molich X Meter, Swede 55, or, to some extend, Aphrodite 101, Senorita Helmsman, International 10.06, Concorde 38 or Luffe 37 are still kicking it from the Baltic to the alpine lakes. 

Tell it to Bill Lee. We had 14 boats in the "50 Fleet' in Seattle which I was part of on "Delicate Balance" and we usually won. Also, 2 O.A. wins in Straits in various conditions against IOR boats. That said we had Charlie & Jonathan McKee, Poncho and Norm Davant too so that didn't hurt. That said it was a long-time team going back to the late '70s. Frankly. It didn't matter much what boat. IOR, ULDB or Ripple and Dark Star.    

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

Tell it to Bill Lee. We had 14 boats in the "50 Fleet' in Seattle which I was part of on "Delicate Balance" and we usually won. Also, 2 O.A. wins in Straits in various conditions against IOR boats. That said we had Charlie & Jonathan McKee, Poncho and Norm Davant too so that didn't hurt. That said it was a long-time team going back to the late '70s. Frankly. It didn't matter much what boat. IOR, ULDB or Ripple and Dark Star.    

Great statement: "Frankly. It didn't matter much what boat. IOR, ULDB or Ripple and Dark Star." 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

Is it just my eyes or is that boom a bigger cross section than the mast?

Yes, Summertime Dream has such a boom. Perhaps it was no limitations to the cross section of the booms (or spars). Some extra area, primarily downwind, with that boom. Which reminds me of the book by John Oakley:

https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12601

"Sir John D A Oakeley.

I've just taken out his book "Winning - The Boat, The Crew & The Race""

He suggested, if the class rules permitted, to have a "blind" at the boom. To ensure extra speed downwind (but less visibility).

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Is it just my eyes or is that boom a bigger cross section than the mast?

Perhaps.  No reason it wouldn't be.  

Frac rigs typically need a much larger boom section than you'd find on a MH rig because of the proportionately much longer boom and SA.

They used the same section on the boom as the mast on my frac.  Economics may have factored in as well.  Usually a lower cost if you can reduce the number of different items on your BOM.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This simply must be a Car Schumacher design, despite named Silver Apple. Ron Holland's Silver Apple was built in aluminum. This one in fiberglass. And the Holland-design Silver Apple of the Moon has a different stern. Now compare with Wall Street Duck. Almost identical, even the pushpit.  

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/d/portland-1981one-ton-class-ior-sailboat/7258311294.html

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, LordBooster said:

She is a beauty. Judel/Vrolijk!

 

I've spent a bit of time on this one.  It was in good shape when it was donated a couple of years ago.  It was originally built as Blue Yankee for the Admirals Cup...

The crazy paint job in one of the photos is from when it was used as the Eriksson  (sp?) hospitality boat at the Volvo stop over in Boston.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites