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1 hour ago, Mudsailor said:

The other part is quantity......for a recycling process you need a steady supply of a consistent and known material........boats are not that supply, too many variations with resin and fabric types....now wind turbine blades, they are better candidates as there are typically a bunch of them all from the same manufacturer, all getting replaced at the same time.....with known materials.

I am in this industry now and when they repower turbines with bigger blades, less and less popular btw, they drop the old blades on the ground and leave them there like used radioactive waste at the nuke. I am sure there are exceptions. These are huge crude structures built to last like 60's and 70's grp hulls. Properly maintained they could last forever. More and more its about blade maintenance and the repower is the guts of the thing (better energy generation and longevity). The expense of building new blades and transporting them to an existing site and putting them on a taller mast is just not working economically. I hoped it would be more like old chairlifts where they dismantle the entire affair and sell them to a smaller user. Not turning out that way so far. Plus in the US the next big deal is offshore monster turbines. 

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It was an odd time the late IOR period. Fantastic fleets, great racing and many beautiful looking boats that were absolute cunts of things to sail. Back them most  owners actually knew how to sail and

Having renovated an IOR 1-tonner, I feel obliged to point out that there are way cheaper ways to get a tidy boat on to a start line

Big Wheels,  yep.  I sailed an 80 foot Maxi that had a pump on the wheel well because it went below the waterline! Lots of winches,  why no cleats or jammers,  none had been developed capable of

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18 minutes ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

I am in this industry now and when they repower turbines with bigger blades, less and less popular btw, they drop the old blades on the ground and leave them there like used radioactive waste at the nuke. I am sure there are exceptions. These are huge crude structures built to last like 60's and 70's grp hulls. Properly maintained they could last forever. More and more its about blade maintenance and the repower is the guts of the thing (better energy generation and longevity). The expense of building new blades and transporting them to an existing site and putting them on a taller mast is just not working economically. I hoped it would be more like old chairlifts where they dismantle the entire affair and sell them to a smaller user. Not turning out that way so far. Plus in the US the next big deal is offshore monster turbines. 

True, but in Europe they are working to make it a legal requirement to have a full lifecycle planned. US is a little behind.  It will get there, especially as the turbines built from 2005 onwards come up for replacement/repower at 20 years, some of the Clipper turbines are already being replaced.

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4 hours ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

The most green thing you can do in the boat owning world is to buy on old boat in decent shape and keep it from having to be scrapped for another 10 or 20 years instead of buying a brand new one. I don't mean a 10 year old Alerion 28 but a 50 year old Ranger 29 or something like that.

That makes me a total greenie. :o

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5 hours ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

The most green thing you can do in the boat owning world is to buy on old boat in decent shape and keep it from having to be scrapped for another 10 or 20 years instead of buying a brand new one. I don't mean a 10 year old Alerion 28 but a 50 year old Ranger 29 or something like that.

Mine'll be 37 years old this year.  but it identifies as much younger.

 

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5 hours ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

The most green thing you can do in the boat owning world is to buy on old boat in decent shape and keep it from having to be scrapped for another 10 or 20 years instead of buying a brand new one. I don't mean a 10 year old Alerion 28 but a 50 year old Ranger 29 or something like that.

If I could add some regs to this fresh thinking and certainly to be mandated.There should be categories and certainly based on your age:

Age of all vessels currently owned, combined. 

Combination age of all vessels ever owned.

Number of times you have seriously considered a full rescue + times you actually did it. 

 

.

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4 hours ago, Mudsailor said:

True, but in Europe they are working to make it a legal requirement to have a full lifecycle planned. US is a little behind.  It will get there, especially as the turbines built from 2005 onwards come up for replacement/repower at 20 years, some of the Clipper turbines are already being replaced.

They should do the same with boats, cars, and appliances everywhere on the planet. Also all consumer electronics. interesting fact about clipper is that they destroyed their company because they put an untested "larger" "U" brace at a critical chord location instead of putting an I beam brace in and testing it. They let the engineers convince them that the larger "U" brace would not fail like the smaller one (which failed under extensive full size cyclical testing). They did not repeat the same full size test bed cyclical testing. Then they built and deployed a huge fleet of turbines and then the blades started failing at that same "U" brace. The warranty work of having technicians climb inside these blades to remove the "U" brace and glass in an I Beam killed the company.    Very much like the systemic technical management issue as the challenger failure. 

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3 hours ago, cje said:

If I could add some regs to this fresh thinking and certainly to be mandated.There should be categories and certainly based on your age:

Age of all vessels currently owned, combined. 40

Combination age of all vessels ever owned. 161

Number of times you have seriously considered a full rescue + times you actually did it. 4 & 4

 

.

 

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4 hours ago, cje said:

If I could add some regs to this fresh thinking and certainly to be mandated.There should be categories and certainly based on your age:

Age of all vessels currently owned, combined. 65

Combination age of all vessels ever owned. 105

Number of times you have seriously considered a full rescue + times you actually did it. 1 - 0

 

.

Depends what you mean by full rescue.  We thought we might have to have an injured crew member taken off offshore.  He turned out to be not as bad as we thought and he was able to continue after a few days off.

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10 hours ago, cje said:

If I could add some regs to this fresh thinking and certainly to be mandated.There should be categories and certainly based on your age:

Age of all vessels currently owned, combined. 127

Combination age of all vessels ever owned. 127

Number of times you have seriously considered a full rescue + times you actually did it. 0-0

 

Combined age of my boats is about 5 times my age. How bad this is?

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8 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Depends what you mean by full rescue.  We thought we might have to have an injured crew member taken off offshore.  He turned out to be not as bad as we thought and he was able to continue after a few days off.

I took it as rescuing a derelict or nearly derelict boat, not a person in the water.

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16 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I took it as rescuing a derelict or nearly derelict boat, not a person in the water.

Oh, of course.  In that case I'm 1-1 for the SC 27... 

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2 hours ago, Matt DI said:

She looks a lot better now than when she fell off her stands in Mt. Sinai, NY back in the 90's. Amazed someone took the time to fix her.

Loved sailing on that boat!

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14 hours ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

They should do the same with boats, cars, and appliances everywhere on the planet. 

And carpet.  And pretty much everything else that is sold needs to have an advance disposal fee included.  

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22 hours ago, sledracr said:

Mine'll be 37 years old this year.  but it identifies as much younger.

 

i've got a 50 year old (1971) Ecume de Mer 26... but since i bought her last year, to me she's new...

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On 2/7/2021 at 6:17 PM, cje said:

If I could add some regs to this fresh thinking and certainly to be mandated.There should be categories and certainly based on your age:

Age of all vessels currently owned, combined. 116 

Suggest AVERAGE age, since some of us have more boats than others- 58

Combination age of all vessels ever owned. 159 (not including dinghies)

Number of times you have seriously considered a full rescue + times you actually did it. 3 &  1 1/2 counting the one in progress

 

.

Like average age of boats currently owned over your age. 

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Sorry OC. I'm confused as well. I did consider this possible conundrum last night and found it to be complicated. There is no prize.

How about a tally of; 

The age of all the vessels you have ever owned at the time you purchased them + what's currently in your holding, also in years.

 

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Happyness unknown design

https://www.dnevnik.si/1042897093/kronika/nasli-lastnika-v-blizini-fiese-najdene-jadrnice?fbclid=IwAR3FJRaFvcpmn02TAWM9ZF_dSKT-G5SIjTq8upajWjqbYCJg_-6zCrRtjEs

 

Translate: "Police were able to find the owner of the sailboat they found on August 14 near Fiesa. The owner is a 54-year-old Italian citizen who was convinced his vessel had been stolen. In fact, the sailboat untied and sailed away. Employees in the coastal protection sector found the vessel at sea in mid-August and brought it to the Portorož marina, but they were unable to determine the ownership of the sailboat, which did not have any registration marks.
They asked the public for help and with the help of the citizens' information they also found the owner. According to the police, the most useful information was from sports sailing circles. The Italian has already taken over the vessel, he has also settled the costs incurred due to the mooring in the marina.
It was about 9.5 meters long and three meters wide sailboat, without a mast installed."
 

Kan vara en bild av jordens vatten

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11 minutes ago, cje said:

Sorry about that P. 

How about this one then. Yes, bought an ad.

https://boatingfreedom.com/boats/Custom-41 Kaufman Performance Cruiser-7589496/#viewgallery

What's the backstay connected to?  It looks like a stainless support for the bimini?

Boat looks like it has been well looked after - nice!

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2 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

What's the backstay connected to?  It looks like a stainless support for the bimini?

Boat looks like it has been well looked after - nice!

You got it. Grabbing the backstay tackle was very unsafe getting in and off that transom even sober. It now goes to the top of what we call the stipper pole.

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39 minutes ago, cje said:

Sorry about that P. 

How about this one then. Yes, bought an ad.

https://boatingfreedom.com/boats/Custom-41 Kaufman Performance Cruiser-7589496/#viewgallery

Well, I am not any governing body, so that was just suggestion. I thought It would make great thread alone.

Beautiful boat, I love how slim that spar looks. I hate those thick poles that some boats have. But is that offset companionway? :P

Edit. Great heater too, Wallas heater will last longer than boat if properly serviced.

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40 minutes ago, cje said:

Sorry about that P. 

How about this one then. Yes, bought an ad.

https://boatingfreedom.com/boats/Custom-41 Kaufman Performance Cruiser-7589496/#viewgallery

"Well equipped with complete instrumentation and a full suit of kevlar racing sails, all combined with a performance design which gives great potential as an IMS racer", see: https://issuu.com/latitude38/docs/latitude38164funse?fbclid=IwAR2fjopExLeaOKSX7G9JHBkjNHV5mp8uVpwKFjByCbrx88R68Z6EdMhlwJc

 

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Pertsa, Thanks for your suggestion and you are right..it is a good thread. Boats are a sickness of mine.

That is the original spar and very skinny as you say and certainly in 1980. They doubled up the wall by adding inner sections or sleeves around any high load areas. Have attempted to bring it down a few times but you would need to work hard at it. Heavy vs less windage, they may have got that part wrong.

 

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Lordb, I cannot believe you just showed me that ad. Sent shivers. I offered them $20k and 4 months later they said its yours if you want it, so we did. 

and so went my second wife..

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4 minutes ago, cje said:

Lordb, I cannot believe you just showed me that ad. Sent shivers. I offered them $20k and 4 months later they said its yours if you want it, so we did. 

and so went my second wife..

O dear, hope you can recover from this blow. I can give example from my life. For half the price...

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Minuta H-800 quarter-tonner designed by Alain Jezequel

http://www.morjeplovec.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19460&fbclid=IwAR1Wlze3Op8AMn7ui8oL7yhRLKnDoiGlngXLSkLawZ3_9RbLC7iWhmXxnHU

Translate: "Sailboat type: H-800
The answerWritten by Marjan Tomki » Sat Oct 22, 2016 08:47
Sailboat type: H-800
Currently - in the fall of 2016 - Omahens is for sale, but there is not much in the ad about what it is ...
From there
... H-800:
Year 2002,
Length over all 8 m,
Draft 1.6 m,
Weight 1.5 tons,
Ballast 600 kg lead,
Sail area 42 m2, spinnaker 60 m2,
Racer cruiser, a quarter-ton that matched the former development regatta specification. The plan was supposed to be made by Alain Jezequell , and the nautical workshop of the Hočevar brothers was working .
Photo of one of them and the link below the picture of the opinion of the then owner How it goes with her - video:"

Kan vara en bild av båtracing och utomhus

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Rivetto minitonner designed by Fontana/Maletto/Navone

https://www.index.hr/oglasi/rivetto/oid/2738320?fbclid=IwAR22-HklH2fmX2VItQiUgbj37FDjIJ9EB7oKFdQVHp4HflPlIxmHkvECfi8

Translate from link above: Rivetto Price: 3.000 € Vessel status Used
Cabin 1
Draft (m) 1.40
Width (m) 2.50
Number of carcasses 1
Vessel model sailing boat
Length over all (m) 7.50
Number of beds 4
Width over all (m) 2.50
Weight (kg) 1,500
Year of manufacture 1996
Length (m) 7.50

Kan vara en bild av jordens vatten

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^^^nice looking *boat*.  Flipping through the pictures, it's clear someone has put a lot of time and thought into keeping it updated and sound. 

(that photo of the dual fuel-filter system reminds me I've got to spend some time in my engine space...)

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Sailing yacht 25 feet - st-25 (Quarter ton)

https://www.avito.ru/mytischi/vodnyy_transport/parusnaya_yahta_25_futov_-_st-25_chetverttonnik_2054714374?fbclid=IwAR0xHHRNS2Iop8LqmQOfZXgh6PH8KXvFFpJ40M6pRZj_YyqCXg5s1nyCqIk

Translate from link above: "Tallinn quarter-ton truck manufactured in 1981. For a long time I stood on the shore, then I underwent an upgrade at the shipyard: the bottom, keel, feather, sides - everything was completely repaired. The deck is painted.
The mast is through, the
boat is ready for operation.
Inside, it requires cosmetic repair, at least and as a maximum - renewal of bulkheads, plywood of the deck.
Together we give you a sailing set and a sled for the yacht.
The yacht can be viewed in the Moscow region in the yacht club."

Kan vara en bild av en eller flera personer, personer sysslar med båtracing och utomhus

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14 hours ago, Rain Man said:

What's the backstay connected to?  It looks like a stainless support for the bimini?

Boat looks like it has been well looked after - nice!

Who cares about that. But at 169K they are on drugs! It's still a race boat even if it's dolled up. Maybe a production C&C 41 in decent shape would be half price of that. And I say "maybe".

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13 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

Who cares about that. But at 169K they are on drugs! It's still a race boat even if it's dolled up. Maybe a production C&C 41 in decent shape would be half price of that. And I say "maybe".

The boat is a frac with runners.  Backstay thingy keeps the metal stick thingy from going over the front of the boat when gybing and is an important sail shape control even for cruising.  It needs to be attached to something solid.  If someone forgets to have the vang on during a gybe, and the boom happens to lift and hit the backstay, all kinds of mayhem could ensue.  But we digress....

7589496_20200915072756294_1_XLARGE.jpg

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6 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

The boat is a frac with runners.  Backstay thingy keeps the metal stick thingy from going over the front of the boat when gybing and is an important sail shape control even for cruising.  It needs to be attached to something solid.  If someone forgets to have the vang on during a gybe, and the boom happens to lift and hit the backstay, all kinds of mayhem could ensue.  But we digress....

7589496_20200915072756294_1_XLARGE.jpg

Ya, that doesn't help the program along; for resale I mean. 

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The backstay isn't gone its just moved fwd at the same angle to the masthead, a very strong point and a sensible solution. Has a solid vang so that nightmare won't happen.

It's not a race boat anymore just a very cool fun vintage vessel and everything works. Expensive to get them to this level.

 

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Nelson/Marek designed such sexy and fast boats.  I always loved my Morgan Nelson Marek 454, which was based on a successful 80s SORC contender.

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37 minutes ago, TUBBY said:

Now there's a memory,  Magic Boxes!

Still quite common in H-boats.

...or most of them have stuck in 80´s and 90´s.

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7 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Stupid question: can someone please compare the two tonners to the IOR 50s? I have fond memories of both but wasn't old enough in the development phase to really understand the differences.

Two ton limit was 32' IOR. For instance, Locura was 33.7' IOR, thus bigger than two ton. I assume it was 50' IOR in the other case you are writing about. Thus, even bigger than Locura. You can compare with:

http://www.farrdesign.com/155.html

 

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Just now, LordBooster said:

Two ton limit was 32' IOR. For instance, Locura was 33.7' IOR, thus bigger than two ton. I assume it was 50' IOR in the other case you are writing about. Thus, even bigger than Locura. You can compare with:

http://www.farrdesign.com/155.html

 

Right, I meant other than size. I sailed on Bravura, and she seemed quite a different boat than, say, Container (not just size).

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Ior 50' (sort of a nickname) included boats in the 39-41 rating band developed after a bunch of owners wanted more level racing.

Most all rated 39 or close to it and ended up being 50' per design

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20 minutes ago, LordBooster said:

The 50' IOR obviously was unofficial. Perhaps that meant that the clients had more freedom to ask for creative design solutions? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Offshore_Rule

I believe the 50's raced level at 40.0 ft IOR at least at some point in time.  The 2 Ton class were generally about 41 ft LOA and raced level at 32.0 ft IOR

Around 1983 the 2 Ton as a level class disappeared, as did the old 1 ton class (27.5 ft IOR) replaced by the "new" 1 Ton class at 30.5 ft IOR.

I suppose this was done partially to reduce the number of classes in that range as there were 3 classes covering a spread of only 7 ft.  So they replaced 2 level classes with just one.  So why 30.5ft?  Besides being roughly midway between the two levels, 30 (or 30.5 I can't recall which) was the minimum rating to qualify for Admirals Cup.  Prior to that a 1 Ton could not be allowed to chosen for an AC team (although I think Ted Turner bumped up Lightnin's rating to squeeze in).

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The International 50-Foot Class saw some of the most competitive racing ever in the IOR era, through the class association's own "World Cup" circuit raced in several venues each season. The development of the International 50-Foot Yacht Association ("IFYA") arose as a result of those owners who wanted to race their yachts on a near level-rating basis, similar to that enjoyed in the smaller Ton classes, and the larger Maxis. The IFYA established a rating band of 39.0 to 41.0 feet IOR, for boats known as 50-footers for their approximate overall length. 

http://rbsailing.blogspot.com/2015/08/the-international-50-foot-class-part-1.html

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3 hours ago, LordBooster said:

Prototipo 2 Tonner Ex Duende Rojo designed by Joubert/Nivelt

Very clean deck layout. Kind of modern looking. According to Andre Braun on the FB site: 

"Most of the boats didn't have the foredeck hatch back then. And I think the backstay winches has been moved forward or changed with the main sheet winches. Most boats back then had the german main sheet system. And there are a lot more windows than usual. Most IOR boats omitted the windows. They didn't get more of them...
And the backstays differs on the two pictures. The picture of the boat sailing has one backstay. The other picture of the boat has the more normal set of two running backstays. Something is changed. A new mast?"
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2 hours ago, See Level said:

Ior 50' (sort of a nickname) included boats in the 39-41 rating band developed after a bunch of owners wanted more level racing.

Most all rated 39 or close to it and ended up being 50' per design

Way BITD there were plans or proposals for a Three Ton level rating class, obviously a step up from the Two Tonners.

It came to naught but the eventual rise of the 50's more or less filled in for the idea.

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4 hours ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Right, I meant other than size. I sailed on Bravura, and she seemed quite a different boat than, say, Container (not just size).

Bravura was fast. The boats I sailed against in the bay that stand out in the classes I sailed were Bravura and Pendragon. Other solar system fast boats/programs. Made you wonder whether the rule system actually worked. I remember a sailmaker telling us the outcome of the BBS in our class before the first race. He was right. We were third.

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Good programs from the Bay usually delivered predictable results. The early 80’s were a great time on the Bay with the Serendipity 41/43’s and other one-off’s like Great Fun, Bullfrog, Bravura etc.. 

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4 hours ago, Nick G said:

Good programs from the Bay usually delivered predictable results. The early 80’s were a great time on the Bay with the Serendipity 41/43’s and other one-off’s like Great Fun, Bullfrog, Bravura etc.. 

 "Damn Near" came with lots of stuff. Gear, sails and stuff. I used everything I could to keep her original. Hung onto things to keep her history.

I have the vessels owner logs of those particular years. (80-85 ish)  It reads like Cook or Vancouver when they selected crew. Things like "very capable foredeck. "Has the weakness with the spirit"

If anyone has a story about her I'd really like to hear it. 

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37 minutes ago, cje said:

 "Damn Near" came with lots of stuff. Gear, sails and stuff. I used everything I could to keep her original. Hung onto things to keep her history.

I have the vessels owner logs of those particular years. (80-85 ish)  It reads like Cook or Vancouver when they selected crew. Things like "very capable foredeck. "Has the weakness with the spirit"

If anyone has a story about her I'd really like to hear it. 

Not much...:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/203537404677541/permalink/244342947263653

 

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13 hours ago, LordBooster said:

Hey!  That's neighbor to my dad's boat...

That's going to be a hard sale.

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