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I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a lift keel and twin rudder option available down the line. Looks like a nice enough boat and a natural successor to the J133 but already looks outdated next to the 10 year old XP44

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Just now, JL92S said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a lift keel and twin rudder option available down the line. Looks like a nice enough boat and a natural successor to the J133 but already looks outdated next to the 10 year old XP44

I think it is much more attractive than the relatively clunky looking XP44. This doesn’t look as ungainly. 

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1 hour ago, sailman said:

Cabin and cockpit look more like a C&C, which isn’t a compliment.

I have always thought C&C's were very attractive boats.

If anything, the new 45 looks like Beneteau and Hanse had an awkward love child. To me, hull windows are a terrible look.

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Hopefully they can improve build quality for this boat. Some friends bought a J122E a few years back and had issues since the start, J composites don’t seem to have great expertise in fitting a teak deck to an expensive yacht. They had some serious warranty issues as well that meant the boat spent months in a shed. Having said all that the J45 is pretty much guaranteed to sail really nicely and very rewarding but a performance cruiser racer needs to do more than just sail well

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15 minutes ago, 'Bacco said:

I have always thought C&C's were very attractive boats.

If anything, the new 45 looks like Beneteau and Hanse had an awkward love child. To me, hull windows are a terrible look.

The J/160 was available with hull windows that I think are well executed.

7E1F5EE5-1480-42E5-9620-8325DCE26D15.jpeg.fc15c5a580f99ee3a89d21f91c91094f.jpeg

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19 minutes ago, Alaris said:

I truly do not understand why someone would buy a performance cruiser in 2020 and then spec teak decks. It’s not a Swan. 

The teak is just thin cosmetic strips in a glass rebate rather than ply subdeck with the full job on top. The thing will weigh a lot anyway and I suppose it makes the non-racing spouse happier.

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Well, it good to see the normal J/Boat haters are still doing well :lol:

How many of us here and commenting are honestly in the market (or could be, but aren't) for a 45' performance cruiser that will likely be in the $500k range?  J has to design boats that sell to people that can buy, and are looking to buy, a 45' performance cruiser.

While I'm not a fan of the hull windows (or hull windows in general), I'm not the target market.  Some guy with 1/2 mil or more to spend is...I'm pretty sure the hull windows, and there location were driven by the interior designer...and that J isn't necessarily all that wowed by them either, hence showing the hull in dark blue to minimize the impact...

While I'm not a fan of Euro interiors or light wood interiors, I'm not the target market. Some guy with 1/2 mil or more to spend is...If you want good airflow in the head and galley, you need some opening ports...this seems a pretty reasonable solution to that issue. 

Overall, on the exterior, I think they did a great job of blending current modern trends, with the J/boat look.  I like it....which is not something I can say of the new Beneteaus  or Hanses or Hinckleys for that matter.

 

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1 hour ago, JMOD said:

source? or is this your guesstimate? I think you're way off.

ready to rock post-VAT with racing sails, deep keel, upgraded deck hardware, carbon rig and so on? not much change from $1M I wouldn't have thought. $2M in earnings this side of the pond.

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Pretty boat. 

I agree with others.  Looks similar to Beneteau, Hanse, etc, etc.  If I didn't know J would not have been one of my first 5 guesses. 

J is pretty savvy at marketing.  Maybe they were losing share to these other builders and decided to take a step in that direction.

 

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Brunswick can’t build million $+ Boston Whalers fast enough.

Lots of money looking for product. 

 

I bet 15+ sold by March 1st.    J Boats needs to drop all their prospective builds and see what the interest is. 

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I’ve raced against them up on several occasions. Too much freeboard, too much visual mass. The visual center of gravity is too high. Superficially, sure they are similar, but the J is a better execution of the concept.

18F486A7-0069-4C16-AC82-223B93617F05.thumb.jpeg.e1bcd44ae2f7053cb635fe1d47681ed6.jpegD002B871-1EC3-49A3-BCB4-AD865CBF394D.jpeg.9605400d1f81197a7bd12b17cd5c9bfa.jpeg
25BF4B2E-BF89-4590-A1DE-DA62B63E4D7A.jpeg.b2d5c945f1b0e90f18550f085d43dc4e.jpeg
 

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21 minutes ago, Alaris said:

I’ve raced against them up on several occasions. Too much freeboard, too much visual mass. The visual center of gravity is too high. Superficially, sure they are similar, but the J is a better execution of the concept.

I would reserve comment on that until seeing one in the flesh. You know what these manufacturer renders are like - ultimately they are solving the same equation of headroom vs freeboard vs coachroof vs canoe body.

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3 minutes ago, Snowden said:

I would reserve comment on that until seeing one in the flesh. You know what these manufacturer renders are like - ultimately they are solving the same equation of headroom vs freeboard vs coachroof vs canoe body.

That may be true, but I’ve never found a J unattractive. 

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2 hours ago, gullwinkle said:

I heard that brokers had to buy the boat first from J  before it could be sold. So any orders come from the brokers and that increases the false demand.

That may be true for the brokers but J typically doesn’t launch a new boat unless there were owners already lined up.  

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5 hours ago, Turnerc7 said:

I asked about the price, 685K base price.  I was quoted around 950K all in delivered to Southern California depending on options.

This is accurate ^

2 hours ago, gullwinkle said:

I heard that brokers had to buy the boat first from J  before it could be sold. So any orders come from the brokers and that increases the false demand.

This is not accurate ^

On 12/17/2020 at 11:42 AM, Snowden said:

Lots of good boats from the 'premium' manufacturers in this size range (Arcona / X / Grand Soleil / Italia), not immediately seeing what the J brings to the party in Europe at least.

Yes this is a busy part of the market right now and it is consumer-driven. It is incredibly expensive for small and mid-size builders to tool up for a boat like this, and they would not be doing it if the buyers were not there. A buyer with the means to purchase a no-compromise cruiser/racer has a lot of options, which is a good thing. Plenty of room for J/Boats to bring their exceptional track record to this part of the market. As a J Dealer (and the guy that sold J/45 #2) I can tell you that our customers have been asking for this boat for a long time. 

J/Boats did their homework on this one, and they have the dealer network to support the owners that buy it. They are upping their game with the design, the construction (no balsa coring, anywhere) and the finish. I can't wait to see the first boats hit the water this summer. 

Detailed dimensions, images etc posted on this page which will be updated frequently:

https://www.mcmichaelyachtbrokers.com/mcmichaelyachtbrokers.com/j-boats/new-j45

 

J45-08.thumb.jpg.babfc702c1476f1b0da6df93e8bdbef8.jpg

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17 minutes ago, Snowden said:

huh?

“Quality matters and the J/45 makes no compromise when it comes to critical components like the composite materials, keel, spars, winches, and deck hardware, that all contribute to a comfortable motion while sailing.”

Unlike previous J Boats this one has not been compromised by inferior parts, hostile Beneteau agents or discontented French Laborers. 

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6 hours ago, Turnerc7 said:

I asked about the price, 685K base price.  I was quoted around 950K all in delivered to Southern California depending on options.

A million bucks for a 45 footer. What a world.

We bought a J/44 new in 1990. I have to think even adjusted for inflation this is considerably more expensive.

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4 minutes ago, Alaris said:

A million bucks for a 45 footer. What a world.

We bought a J/44 new in 1990. I have to think even adjusted for inflation this is considerably more expensive.

It is crazy, have you priced out any new boat lately?  Its the boat or the house...

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1 hour ago, smilingpolitely said:

This is accurate ^

This is not accurate ^

Yes this is a busy part of the market right now and it is consumer-driven. It is incredibly expensive for small and mid-size builders to tool up for a boat like this, and they would not be doing it if the buyers were not there. A buyer with the means to purchase a no-compromise cruiser/racer has a lot of options, which is a good thing. Plenty of room for J/Boats to bring their exceptional track record to this part of the market. As a J Dealer (and the guy that sold J/45 #2) I can tell you that our customers have been asking for this boat for a long time. 

J/Boats did their homework on this one, and they have the dealer network to support the owners that buy it. They are upping their game with the design, the construction (no balsa coring, anywhere) and the finish. I can't wait to see the first boats hit the water this summer. 

Detailed dimensions, images etc posted on this page which will be updated frequently:

https://www.mcmichaelyachtbrokers.com/mcmichaelyachtbrokers.com/j-boats/new-j45

 

4 hours ago, Alaris said:

That may be true, but I’ve never found a J unattractive. 

1 hour ago, smilingpolitely said:

J45-08.thumb.jpg.babfc702c1476f1b0da6df93e8bdbef8.jpg

Drinking J  kool aid!

 

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4 hours ago, Crash said:

Yep, I'll take another glass of that Kool Aid! Good looking boat compared to Benes or Hanses, etc...Now I just need to come up with a spare million dollars :rolleyes: 

Bene / Hanse is not the right comp for this J given probable pricing - need to look at X / Arcona / Grand Soleil etc

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On 12/17/2020 at 8:39 PM, Controversial_posts said:

Don't forget the leaky deck fittings in balsa core? There's that.

Simply not true, at least in the J/46 and up. The deck is solid glass under the factory deck fittings. 

The J/45 seems to check all the boxes for a really good offshore boat that is fun to sail. Can’t wait to see one on the water. 

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There is obviously a master list of features that the target buyers want based on sales.  To get all these features into a design has pushed them all to look similar, on deck and down below.

I would like to see a rendering of the J in white when comparing it to the others.  Not sure I could guess which one sails better or looks better based on renderings and photos alone.

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Weight will play a large factor in performance. Based on the advertising, I’m guessing this will be a glass, maybe with vinylester build if the buyers are lucky. It’s okay, but necessitates a heavy build. Here’s to hoping the quality is on par with the price tag.

Offshore, pass on the hull windows. At the dock and in the Med, they make sense.

Bottom line: It is no J/145 or J/125 second coming or replacement. I also don’t think it is quite marketed as such, the drop of the 1 in the name suggests more cruiser than racer.

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12 minutes ago, MidPack said:

DQOTD, why did they drop the decimeter model name? Cruiser (feet) vs racer/cruiser (decimeter)?

I believe that is correct. The J/32 and J/46 came out after the decimeter naming convention began and I think that was the justification. 

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21 hours ago, gullwinkle said:
23 hours ago, smilingpolitely said:

This is accurate ^

This is not accurate ^

Yes this is a busy part of the market right now and it is consumer-driven. It is incredibly expensive for small and mid-size builders to tool up for a boat like this, and they would not be doing it if the buyers were not there. A buyer with the means to purchase a no-compromise cruiser/racer has a lot of options, which is a good thing. Plenty of room for J/Boats to bring their exceptional track record to this part of the market. As a J Dealer (and the guy that sold J/45 #2) I can tell you that our customers have been asking for this boat for a long time. 

J/Boats did their homework on this one, and they have the dealer network to support the owners that buy it. They are upping their game with the design, the construction (no balsa coring, anywhere) and the finish. I can't wait to see the first boats hit the water this summer. 

Detailed dimensions, images etc posted on this page which will be updated frequently:

https://www.mcmichaelyachtbrokers.com/mcmichaelyachtbrokers.com/j-boats/new-j45

 

J45-08.thumb.jpg.babfc702c1476f1b0da6df93e8bdbef8.jpg

Smiley, based on your recent comments,McMichaels

should buy an ad.

 

 

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Buy an ad says the new guy to the J/Boat dealer in the J/Boat forum, sponsored by J/Boats, responding in a J/Boat thread they didn't start with answers to questions...  Right...

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7 hours ago, Roleur said:

Buy an ad says the new guy to the J/Boat dealer in the J/Boat forum, sponsored by J/Boats, responding in a J/Boat thread they didn't start with answers to questions...  Right...

Maybe the "buy an ad"-reactions are referring to linking to your own page with the exact same information as the official J/boats page :D

This internet stuff is hard.

Naturally, there's a market for this. Arcona has sold plenty of 435 and 465 (lighter and more expensive w an option to go full carbon), X-yachts are pumping out X4³ and X4⁶ (a bit on the heavy side, but a long tradition in this size) as well as Grand Soleil and a few others. So from a business perspective, it makes perfect sense.

Personally, I think they've could have turned up the J/dial a bit more with a retractable sprit and some styling. But as always, they've done their homework.

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On 12/20/2020 at 10:07 AM, Blur said:

So from a business perspective, it makes perfect sense.

 

Seriously crowded market in that size :

To be launched, Mat 1340 (racer side)  Salona 46 (more performance cruiser)

In 2020, Grand Soleil 44

In 2019 Arcona 435 ( a bit smaller)

In 2018 Solaris 44

Not forgetting the Dehler 46 from 2014, on the cheaper side, if you can say that for a 46ft.

And at the end, the 2 last Middle Sea Race were won by a quite older First 45... (No longer built, but about the same size and layout).

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Agree... But if both Arcona and X-yachts can sell 50+ yachts each of a model like this in a few years, I would set a similar goal for J/boats = 25M€.

J/44 = 68 boats, J/46 = 35 boats, J/133 = ???

And I wouldn't call Elusive a First 45 anymore :D 
New keel, rudder, mast, etc, etc, ...

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On 12/20/2020 at 4:07 AM, Blur said:

 

Personally, I think they've could have turned up the J/dial a bit more with a retractable sprit and some styling. But as always, they've done their homework.

I agree.  I think the most successful boats that j produced were ones where there wasn’t anything comparable in the market.  I think this will be a really nice boat, but I am not sure what sets it apart from the competition?  
 

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2 hours ago, Blur said:

But if both Arcona and X-yachts can sell 50+ yachts each of a model like this in a few years

It took more than 8 years for X-yachts to sell 100 xp-44. (with near half of factory price tag compared to J/45).

X-Yachts - Xp 44 Hull No. #100 has left the first stage of... | Facebook

I doubt Arcona has same sales figures.

 

The successful series of X is the X4. But it is much more of a cruiser than a racer. Perhaps that's why the J/45 is so heavy, and does not have a retractable sprit.

 

 

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2 hours ago, fcfc said:

It took more than 8 years for X-yachts to sell 100 xp-44. (with near half of factory price tag compared to J/45).

X-Yachts - Xp 44 Hull No. #100 has left the first stage of... | Facebook

I doubt Arcona has same sales figures.

The successful series of X is the X4. But it is much more of a cruiser than a racer. Perhaps that's why the J/45 is so heavy, and does not have a retractable sprit.

My point exactly. I think they sold 75 yachts in the first 2 years of the X4 series. And now >50 of X4⁶.

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37 minutes ago, ryley said:

Is this the same J that Bob Perry recently called "nice, but boring?"

Hey Ryley,

This is the most recent J review in Sailing that Bob has done (that I can find on the Sailing Mag website).  Don't see the words "nice, but boring" here , and pretty sure you wouldn't confuse the J/99 for a J/45, so I guess there could be a newer review that I've missed.  I get the Mag, and last one had reviews of big cruising cats...

Crash

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On 12/19/2020 at 11:53 AM, MidPack said:

DQOTD, why did they drop the decimeter model name? Cruiser (feet) vs racer/cruiser (decimeter)?

Decimeter = Sprit & Asym

Feet = Pole & Symmetrical kite

Shush about the J/100 and J/99.

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4 hours ago, Hadlock said:

Is there an option for a retractable bow sprit, or has that era passed now

I think the combination of (i) proliferation of code sails needing bobstay and more luff tension, (ii) RRS changes negating the OCS advantage of a retracting sprit and (iii) wanting to combine an anchor with a plumb stem means that they don't need to come back? You can still unbolt most of them to save on marina fees.

That's before you even start talking about leaks :-)

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On 12/18/2020 at 12:53 PM, smilingpolitely said:

J/Boats did their homework on this one, and they have the dealer network to support the owners that buy it. They are upping their game with the design, the construction (no balsa coring, anywhere) and the finish. I can't wait to see the first boats hit the water this summer. 

Solid construction is an interesting design decision. Is this the first J without balsa? If so, that suggests that soggy core is a customer satisfaction issue even for their cruising customers, not just the racers who like to monkey around with gear placement.

Solid construction also suggests that putting on an articulating sprit should be easy, for those not satisfied with the stubby little sprit.

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1 hour ago, Crash said:

No sure you can conclude solid core (i.e. no core) from the words no balsa coring, anywhere.  It may mean they've gone from balsa to a foam core...

It's a weak conclusion, but my guess is that the deck flexes due to crew climbing and lounging around, loading and unloading provisions and gear, strapping extra water and fuel to the deck, etc. creates stress somewhere in the balsa-glass interface (I'd guess it would be worst at solid-core transitions) that leads to leaks. Otherwise, I'd expect soggy core to mostly impact racers.

Either way, the move away from balsa to solid glass or foam core seems like a big win for the longevity of these boats. It is interesting that it took so long, and that this is the boat they choose to do it with.

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1 hour ago, apophenia said:

It's a weak conclusion, but my guess is that the deck flexes due to crew climbing and lounging around, loading and unloading provisions and gear, strapping extra water and fuel to the deck, etc. creates stress somewhere in the balsa-glass interface (I'd guess it would be worst at solid-core transitions) that leads to leaks. Otherwise, I'd expect soggy core to mostly impact racers.

Either way, the move away from balsa to solid glass or foam core seems like a big win for the longevity of these boats. It is interesting that it took so long, and that this is the boat they choose to do it with.

So not to be too argumentative in the days leading up to Christmas, and the Holiday Season...Happy Holidays, by the way!

Have you ever repaired a soft spot on a balsa cored deck?  Almost invariably, the cause of the water intrusion can be traced back to a thru-deck penetration where the core was not isolated from the penetration.  Shrouds, lifeline stantions, winch bases, hatches, poorly run speaker or instrument wires, etc, etc.  When I recored most of the cabintop and fore deck of my S2 9.1, every leak and wet area could be traced back.  This isn't a problem that was unique to J/Boats.  S2's, Pearson Flyers, Tartan 10s, etc, etc all suffered in the late 70s and 80s from failing to isolate the core in the areas where there were thru deck penetrations.

Yes, there is a case to be made for highly loaded equipment, winches, halyard turning blocks, etc, flexing the deck, which leads to cracks, which leads to wet core...but IF the designer thought the structure sufficent for the load, both a cored, or solid deck would crack...foam would crack as well.  You can still have water intrusion and delaminated areas with foam.  Sure the foam doesnt' rot like balsa will eventually do, but there can still be water in the core.  Solid glass is heavy and not nearly as stiff as a cored laminate, so requires stringers, and bracing or thicker (heavier) layups to resist flexing.  All boat construction is a compromise.  There is no one right answer, and there certainly isn't one right answer that is inexpensive, and easy to produce that lasts forever...

But....that's just my humble opinion.  Again, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!

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27 minutes ago, Crash said:

So not to be too argumentative in the days leading up to Christmas, and the Holiday Season...Happy Holidays, by the way!

This discussion feels informative rather than argumentative, please continue to discuss!

27 minutes ago, Crash said:

Have you ever repaired a soft spot on a balsa cored deck?  Almost invariably, the cause of the water intrusion can be traced back to a thru-deck penetration where the core was not isolated from the penetration.  Shrouds, lifeline stantions, winch bases, hatches, poorly run speaker or instrument wires, etc, etc.  When I recored most of the cabintop and fore deck of my S2 9.1, every leak and wet area could be traced back.  This isn't a problem that was unique to J/Boats.  S2's, Pearson Flyers, Tartan 10s, etc, etc all suffered in the late 70s and 80s from failing to isolate the core in the areas where there were thru deck penetrations.

My plague-project has been restoring an '84 Olson 25. The first O25 I looked at had a foredeck that felt like it belonged on a Hobie Cat - the pulpit support pads are too small and easily puncture the foredeck in a collision. And these boats were and are raced aggressively on the SF Bay, so plenty of collisions in their history. My own boat had a number of different adhesives and sealants jammed into the damaged area under the pulpit supports. I took everything except the winches and mast off, inspected the balsa in every hole and found dry blonde wood. I then filled the holes with penetrating epoxy before drilling them out again and refitting all the deck hardware. Perhaps unnecessary, but this O25 should have another good 35 years racing on the bay if future owners take good care.

Before buying the O25, I had briefly considered a J/105 with significant soggy core issues. I can't tell you how lucky I am that I passed on that mess.

My boat significantly exceeded hull speed on the first day out, under dacron main & 95% jib. While I may have overdone the desk restoration, the performance of the boat made it absolutely worth it for me and future owners.

 

27 minutes ago, Crash said:

Yes, there is a case to be made for highly loaded equipment, winches, halyard turning blocks, etc, flexing the deck, which leads to cracks, which leads to wet core...but IF the designer thought the structure sufficent for the load, both a cored, or solid deck would crack...foam would crack as well.  You can still have water intrusion and delaminated areas with foam.  Sure the foam doesnt' rot like balsa will eventually do, but there can still be water in the core.  Solid glass is heavy and not nearly as stiff as a cored laminate, so requires stringers, and bracing or thicker (heavier) layups to resist flexing.  All boat construction is a compromise.  There is no one right answer, and there certainly isn't one right answer that is inexpensive, and easy to produce that lasts forever...

But....that's just my humble opinion.  Again, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!

Foam cores seem like a nice improvement given the chronic issues that J/Boats seem to have with soggy balsa, but I'm surprised that they weren't able to improve their balsa process over all this time. I don't know if I'll be in the market for a J/45 or something more like a JPK when I'm ready to move on from the Olson. That may depend on how many years this plague remains active.

I hope you have a happy, safe, and healthy winter holiday as well!

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As others have noted, this J/45 doesn't seem to add much to what's already out there.  It seems very similar to the X4-6: slightly lighter, slightly beamier, but not much in it.  And also very similar to the Arcona 465, which being carbon is about 10%5 lighter than the J.  The Solaris 44 is also similar, and about 5% lighter than the J.

The main design difference I can see is that the Solaris, X and Arcona carry more of their beam aft.

Most Js are reasonably well differentiated from other offerings, but this feels like a copycat design. 

J/boats is a very effective marketing organisation, which has a knack of finding an unfilled niche where there are customers waiting, and meeting that need.  But in this case, it seems to be just looking for a slice of an already crowded market, which implies reduced profitability.

The others all have a higher reputation for quality, so the J/45 is going to have to compete on price ... which is not a familiar situation for J/boats.

So where's the gap?  My best guess so far is that the target is American customers for this sort of boat, where the J brand is much more dominant than in Europe, and J has a huge dealer network and a reputation for holding value.  That may allow the boat to be sold at high enough profit margins.

 

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3 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

As others have noted, this J/45 doesn't seem to add much to what's already out there.  It seems very similar to the X4-6: slightly lighter, slightly beamier, but not much in it.  And also very similar to the Arcona 465, which being carbon is about 10%5 lighter than the J.  The Solaris 44 is also similar, and about 5% lighter than the J.

The main design difference I can see is that the Solaris, X and Arcona carry more of their beam aft.

Most Js are reasonably well differentiated from other offerings, but this feels like a copycat design. 

J/boats is a very effective marketing organisation, which has a knack of finding an unfilled niche where there are customers waiting, and meeting that need.  But in this case, it seems to be just looking for a slice of an already crowded market, which implies reduced profitability.

The others all have a higher reputation for quality, so the J/45 is going to have to compete on price ... which is not a familiar situation for J/boats.

So where's the gap?  My best guess so far is that the target is American customers for this sort of boat, where the J brand is much more dominant than in Europe, and J has a huge dealer network and a reputation for holding value.  That may allow the boat to be sold at high enough profit margins.

 

To add to that.  Don't underestimate the number of American buyers looking for something in this size/price range that would much rather "Buy American" if they had the option and none of the other boats mentioned have any ties to the US.  

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1 minute ago, Roleur said:

To add to that.  Don't underestimate the number of American buyers looking for something in this size/price range that would much rather "Buy American" if they had the option and none of the other boats mentioned have any ties to the US.  

God use of scare quotes, Roleur.  If they do buy "American", they'll actually be buying French, since the boats will be made by J Composites in Les Sables-d'Olonne.

But then I guess people are used to buying American branded stuff which is actually made in China

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Certainly buying a bigger J/Boat these days means having them manufactured at J Composites, who by most everyone's accounts does a better job than most of the US builders J have used...But it still means money in the pockets of J/Boats themselves in Rhode Island, so there's that component of it.  I also think there is a component of buyers, particularly in the US maybe, that don't really like the super-wide euro butt.  I know I don't.  So even though J/Boats transom's are growing wider, they are still narrower, and better looking (IMHO) than wide-assed Euro boats.  

There is nothing wrong with wide-ass Euro boats, other than the aesthetics simply doesn't work for me.

The last mid-40 J cruiser was the J-46, built from 1995-2003.  It is very likely that a number of J clientele have expressed the desire (as stated by smilingpolitely above)  to have a newer J in that size.  Not every boat designed need be targeted to the European Market, which as many have pointed out, is already well served by other makes.  But I'd guess there are as many J dealers in the US, as there are X-Yacht, Acrona, and Solaris combined.

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5 minutes ago, Crash said:

 I also think there is a component of buyers, particularly in the US maybe, that don't really like the super-wide euro butt.  I know I don't.  So even though J/Boats transom's are growing wider, they are still narrower, and better looking (IMHO) than wide-assed Euro boats.  

Absolutely true, and it was important to J/Boats that the 45 be more moderate in both euro-butt and freeboard than the competition. It's amazing what our eyes have gotten used to from all of the mass market production cruisers out there. 

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every time there is a new J boat.., a bunch of people come along and post about; how boring the boat is.., what a mistake it is.., how ugly it is.., that it's not faster than boats they built 20 years ago.., and on and on..., usually concluding that they won't sell any of them.., or if they do it will only be to a few dumb asses who get conned by the J Boat "marketing".

yet, they continue to sell tons of boats, and screw-ups are rare.

i'd bet they had a dozen at least unofficial commitments before they announced this - as in " when you build a new J/44 or new J/46, let me know, because I want to be first in line"

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6 minutes ago, us7070 said:

every time there is a new J boat.., a bunch of people come along and post about; how boring the boat is.., what a mistake it is.., how ugly it is.., that it's not faster than boats they built 20 years ago.., and on and on..., usually concluding that they won't sell any of them.., or if they do it will only be to a few dumb asses who get conned by the J Boat "marketing".

Actually, most of the comments are nothing like the pile-on you describe.  They are asking questions, both about the boat and about the target market.

But hey, if it makes you happy to attack an imaginary attack fest, feel free to get that "haters gonna hate" response of your chest.

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In 7070's defense, thought the comments in this thread are more as Legs describes, and less of the "more typical" J-Hate SA is known for, go read the first 20 or so posts in the J/9 thread to see more of the standard pile-ons we have come to expect with every new J.  

It's just kinda a thing we've all gotten used to and now expect.  So maybe on this thread 7070 "saw" more into the questions then is there?

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1 hour ago, Crash said:

In 7070's defense, thought the comments in this thread are more as Legs describes, and less of the "more typical" J-Hate SA is known for, go read the first 20 or so posts in the J/9 thread to see more of the standard pile-ons we have come to expect with every new J.  

It's just kinda a thing we've all gotten used to and now expect.  So maybe on this thread 7070 "saw" more into the questions then is there?

Or the first page of the J/111 thread.  You'd think that boat was a disaster of performance, looks, and marketing.  Look at how that turned out, 200+ boats later.

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just so it's clear, I am not an uncritical J Boat fan.

while I have owned two J Boats,  i like X-Yachts.., I have raced on two of them - one is pretty new, and think that in general they are better built than J Boats (The US ones at least)  - certainly they are more consistently good. I almost bought an X-40. I tried to look at an Arcona 400, but it sold before I could get to it.

two of the J Boats I raced on had keel sump issues that required quite a lot of work. They both were built in the US. My current J Boat is a french built boat, and I think it's better than the American built boats I have sailed on. It does have one issue that I am working on, but it might be related to something a previous owner did.

 

 

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  • 3 months later...
  • 3 months later...
On 12/18/2020 at 2:33 AM, JL92S said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a lift keel and twin rudder option available down the line. Looks like a nice enough boat and a natural successor to the J133 but already looks outdated next to the 10 year old XP44

It will have to be pretty special to be an all round better boat than a J/133. Only 20 or so of them built in the earlier 2000s but Pintia in Europe and Patriot in Aus and maybe others elsewhere are still kicking high level IRC arse and continuing to surprise visiting competitors with the level of comforts on board. 

Patriot 11-11-18 (10).jpg

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1 minute ago, SPORTSCAR said:

It will have to be pretty special to be an all round better boat than a J/133. Only 20 or so of them built in the earlier 2000s but Pintia in Europe and Patriot in Aus and maybe others elsewhere are still kicking high level IRC arse and continuing to surprise visiting competitors with the level of comforts on board. 

Patriot 11-11-18 (10).jpg

Not really the same use case. The marketing materials call it a cruising boat. 

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18 hours ago, SPORTSCAR said:

It will have to be pretty special to be an all round better boat than a J/133. Only 20 or so of them built in the earlier 2000s but Pintia in Europe and Patriot in Aus and maybe others elsewhere are still kicking high level IRC arse and continuing to surprise visiting competitors with the level of comforts on board. 

Patriot 11-11-18 (10).jpg

 

Really only around 20 built??  I thought there were lots more!

Only sailed one once... AWESOME :)

 

 

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