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Having a race like that is why the committee was correct in postponing the race so many times. I think that the race was worth the wait.  Cheers to the Race Committee!

Semi Final Race 1 book is open - hit like for an AM win, dislike for LRPP.  Don’t sit on the fence now!

Funny when I click on the cup site I get this:

Posted Images

9 minutes ago, bigrpowr said:

seeing that the Prada cup starts in 3 weeks or so, who you got? the top 2 should provide some great entertainment, #3... who knows. i have:

 

1. NYYC

2. LR

3. Ineos

 

 

LBYC

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Just now, Kate short for Bob said:

Luna Rosa Prada Pirelli.

They are moded for light airs.  Just haven't showed their hand yet.  I expect Jimmy to take full control and ditch dual helmsman.

I wondered whether dual helms might cause some friction. But despite Jimmy's brash persona he seems to be very professional so I think it will be ok for them.

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15 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Luna Rosa Prada Pirelli.

They are moded for light airs.  Just haven't showed their hand yet.  I expect Jimmy to take full control and ditch dual helmsman.

Its not often I agree with Kate, bit in this instance I agree 100%

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12 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I wondered whether dual helms might cause some friction. But despite Jimmy's brash persona he seems to be very professional so I think it will be ok for them.

It might be just OK.  My thinking is it is a bit like F1 - you mode the boat slightly differently for each helmsman.  That's where the conflict is.

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22 hours ago, bigrpowr said:

oh yeah the boat is prolly on a ship now!

3D PRINTED at the Finish ahead of TNZ

Just need to win the protest and stuff like that

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1 hour ago, mako23 said:

In the Christmas cup I felt the course was not very wide, you could be on one tack and within minutes you were at the boundary. In the Prada Cup and America’s Cup will the same course dimensions be used. 

I believe so and yes it was bloody stupid, especially in the start box where the boats had about 3 square metres to manouvre in.

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9 hours ago, mako23 said:

In the Christmas cup I felt the course was not very wide, you could be on one tack and within minutes you were at the boundary. In the Prada Cup and America’s Cup will the same course dimensions be used. 

I think the course dimensions achieve their goal, wide enough to allow leverage, narrow enough to force frequent maneuvers. If you make it wider, it will almost guarantee the faster boat win the race. Keeping it close makes that pass difficult, and more maneuvers force crews to be good as mistakes are costly. 

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

I think the big question for Ineos is, in the 12 opportunities they have in the Prada Cup, will they be able to win a race? How will big Jim react if they don't procure a single win in Auckland for the entire summer?

Even the frogs won a couple last time, so you'd hope this is an unlikely scenario.

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Shirley Robertson has just released 2 podcast episodes for the Prada Cup. It's worth restating what a great job she is doing in coverage, meaningful questions, and giving interviewees enough time and room to be able to think and answer. 

 

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8zNjQ4MjAucnNz/episode/QnV6enNwcm91dC03MDg4MTAx?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwjgy8SqwYPuAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAg

In Part 1 of this Edition, Robertson talks to her fellow Broadcast Commentators at the Cup, as Kenny Read and Nathan Outteridge discuss all they have seen in the World Series racing to date, and weigh up the strengths of each of the three Challengers as the Prada Cup draws near.  The trio dissect the performance of the three teams to date, look at where each team may be able to improve and discuss some of the design differences apparent in each of the Challenger set ups.

 

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8zNjQ4MjAucnNz/episode/QnV6enNwcm91dC03MDg4MTMx?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwjgy8SqwYPuAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAg

In Part 2 of this month's Edition, Robertson then sits down with three key players from the Challengers themselves, kicking things off with American Magic skipper Terry Hutchinson.  The only team to have beaten all three of the other teams in the December racing here in Auckland, American Magic put in a solid performance pre Christmas, although Hutchinson was quick to point out that they still didn't win the regatta.  He did however reveal how happy the team were to be back out on the water mixing it up with their rivals...:

"Andrew Campbell commented that for the last eighteen months our simulator and our VPP have driven us to sail the boat in a different way and we're learning how to sail the boat around how these tools have taught us to sail the boat, and they're quite good, quite exciting, and yet it just hits you right in the face that all this equipment that you have is good, but it's not real life, and so we have to get back on the water and do it in real life."

From Challenger of Record Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli, Robertson talks to helm Francesco 'Checco' Bruni, unique in the Cup in that he is co-helm of the Italian boat with Australian Jimmy Spithill.  Bruni starts by reflecting on the team's performance during the December races...:

"We definitely felt we were very strong in the light wind and missing something in the stronger wind so our focus obviously is to work on that weakness, but we knew already that all our components for that period of the racing would have been good in the lighter wind."

Robertson's third chat is with a returning podcast guest, Sir Ben Ainslie, Team Principal and helm of British challenger INEOS TEAM UK.  The British boat suffered performance issues during the December racing, at times struggling to get up onto the foils in the lighter airs.  Forthright and pragmatic in the press conferences that followed racing, sitting down with Robertson for the podcast, a determined Ben Ainslie was hopeful that his team would be able to become more and more of a threat over the running of the Prada Cup.

"You can certainly change your measurement certificate through the Prada Cup through the different rounds....and also how you sail the boat and set the boat up.  So I think you'll see a lot of improvements through the Prada Cup, and whoever gets through, we're certainly going to have to push each other hard for that Challenger to give the Kiwis a race, because right now they're head and shoulders above the three other teams and we've really got to up our game to be competitive against them."

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NZ Herald article, 1pm today, behind paywall.
 
America's Cup 2021: More races for Team New Zealand in last-minute schedule change
 
Some last-minute negotiating has seen two days of practice racing - that will include defender Team New Zealand - scheduled for Monday and Tuesday ahead of the start of the Prada Cup challenger series.
 
A compromise has clearly been reached and the Herald understands all four teams will have practice races on Monday and Tuesday before the challengers' boats are officially measured on Wednesday ahead of the Prada Cup opening round robin starting on Friday.
 
It's understood the practice races couldn't be held unless Team New Zealand were included. Each team will have four practice races, news that will no doubt please the Kiwis, who will then spend the next eight weeks going it alone while the challengers compete for the right to challenge for the Auld Mug.
 
i.e., practice racing tomorrow!
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Let it not be said that they haven’t got their way when it comes to getting extra races in, anyone might thing they were a touch worried Pete might.need a bit of ra e practice? (Who the fuck knows and it’s a joke for anyone thin skinned enough to take offence, you can fuck the starts completely when your boat is as fast as theirs) 

I think the compromise was moving the date set up had to be declared until after the practice races? 

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

Let it not be said that they haven’t got their way when it comes to getting extra races in, anyone might thing they were a touch worried Pete might.need a bit of ra e practice? (Who the fuck knows and it’s a joke for anyone thin skinned enough to take offence, you can fuck the starts completely when your boat is as fast as theirs) 

I think the compromise was moving the date set up had to be declared until after the practice races? 

They apparently only need to declare 2 days in advance of Friday so I'm guessing no such compromise occured.

Don't really give a monkey's about the extra "races" could they'll be about as informative as the last lot of practice races. Especially since there has been no intent to broadcast them signalled.

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

Ah my bad thought they had to declare earlier

So did I until a few days ago.

I think for the cup itself it is the full 5 days.

Either way, fucking ridiculous rule.

Far better to be like it was in Bermuda IMO.

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36 minutes ago, nav said:

^ ^^ Why guess? Just read the official information posted above - declaration dates included

Most of those links, the last two at least are for the Xmas cup.. 

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13 minutes ago, nav said:

Oops. My mistake - sorry

Should have been this...

https://docs.google.com/a/acofficials.org/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNvZmZpY2lhbHMub3JnfGFjMzYtb2ZmaWNpYWwtbm90aWNlYm9hcmR8Z3g6MThmYTE3ZmM5NzFiZTA4ZA

.... released on the 7th of Jan' and is for the Prada Cup. It includes the pairings and the all important notification dates.

That’s better ;-) 

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1 hour ago, nav said:

^ Huh :lol:..... there was a group here who swore no further practice races would take place - because of Team interests. Hmmm?

I was one of them and I still don't understand it.

Good benefit for ETNZ who have more time up their sleeves, but for the challengers? Weird.

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5 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I was one of them and I still don't understand it.

Good benefit for ETNZ who have more time up their sleeves, but for the challengers? Weird.

Seems to run counter to the Protocol, ETNZ getting any action against the Challs after the last ACWS, but I haven’t read the details around how it somehow happened anyway. 
 

Regardless, it seems unlikely that anyone will take this too seriously; it’s mostly about teething problems with the RMS. 

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10 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I was one of them and I still don't understand it.

Good benefit for ETNZ who have more time up their sleeves, but for the challengers? Weird.

It was a deal apparently in exchange for the committee boats and the days. Tnz said Wednesday Thursday. Challengers wanted Monday Tuesday. 

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

Seems to run counter to the Protocol, ETNZ getting any action against the Challs after the last ACWS, but I haven’t read the details around how it somehow happened anyway. 
 

Regardless, it seems unlikely that anyone will take this too seriously; it’s mostly about teething problems with the RMS. 

I can only assume they ALL agreed to it otherwise it wouldn't happen.

And if thats the case then its all fair. Just grates me that Challengers meet the defender before the cup itself but shrug.

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Just now, jaysper said:

I can only assume they ALL agreed to it otherwise it wouldn't happen.

And if thats the case then its all fair. Just grates me that Challengers meet the defender before the cup itself but shrug.

Talk of the frackers tuning up TNZ once they are eliminated in exchange for the COR deal equally rude. I can see the commodore of the NYYC calling up the commodore of the RYS and telling him it is not cricket.

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Just now, winchfodder said:

Talk of the frackers tuning up TNZ once they are eliminated in exchange for the COR deal equally rude. I can see the commodore of the NYYC calling up the commodore of the RYS and telling him it is not cricket.

Hopefully it is just that - talk.

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If Ineos does use this practice to race-tune with ETNZ, while the other Challs refuse to engage, well it could be a telling sign that there’s some kind of cooperation going on behind the scenes. I suppose if there’s any good news in that, it’s that Ratty, win or lose, is already in for another campaign. 

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43 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Talk of the frackers tuning up TNZ once they are eliminated in exchange for the COR deal equally rude. I can see the commodore of the NYYC calling up the commodore of the RYS and telling him it is not cricket.

I'm amazed that any Kiwis on here would even contemplate UK tuning up NZ because according to them UK are far too slow.

And if the recent speed against AM and LR is true then it's irrelevant because we won't be eliminated

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53 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

I'm amazed that any Kiwis on here would even contemplate UK tuning up NZ because according to them UK are far too slow.

And if the recent speed against AM and LR is true then it's irrelevant because we won't be eliminated

I don't think INEOS can close the gap (can always be wrong) but I don't support ANY challenger tuning up ANY defender.

It sucked when Chris Dickson did it in San Diego, sucked when Barker did it last time and would suck again if happens here.

NOT suggesting it is cheating, just goes against what I like about the AC.

To be honest, these days you can barely say it flies against tradition cos so many challengers have done it :-(

 

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1 hour ago, winchfodder said:

Talk of the frackers tuning up TNZ once they are eliminated in exchange for the COR deal equally rude. I can see the commodore of the NYYC calling up the commodore of the RYS and telling him it is not cricket.

Stop reading Magnus..

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

If Ineos does use this practice to race-tune with ETNZ, while the other Challs refuse to engage, well it could be a telling sign that there’s some kind of cooperation going on behind the scenes. I suppose if there’s any good news in that, it’s that Ratty, win or lose, is already in for another campaign. 

Or that the last thing they want to do is confirm any improvement of INEOS  before they have to race them for real. 
 

 

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37 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I don't think INEOS can close the gap (can always be wrong) but I don't support ANY challenger tuning up ANY defender.

It sucked when Chris Dickson did it in San Diego, sucked when Barker did it last time and would suck again if happens here.

NOT suggesting it is cheating, just goes against what I like about the AC.

To be honest, these days you can barely say it flies against tradition cos so many challengers have done it :-(

 

Agreed. Totally out of order and out of the spirit of the Cup. 

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3 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Agreed. Totally out of order and out of the spirit of the Cup. 

Yeah, but sadly in recent years it has been what has happened.

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

I'm amazed that any Kiwis on here would even contemplate UK tuning up NZ because according to them UK are far too slow.

Not every Kiwi has weighed in on that opinion...

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

If Ineos does use this practice to race-tune with ETNZ, while the other Challs refuse to engage, well it could be a telling sign that there’s some kind of cooperation going on behind the scenes. I suppose if there’s any good news in that, it’s that Ratty, win or lose, is already in for another campaign. 

You've obviously not seen the videos of challengers doing 'co-ordinated racing' in a way that is also inconsistent with the prot...

You've always been a stickler for the 'spirit' of things eh... so no doubt that footage will raise your hackles too :-)

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12 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

and out of the spirit of the Cup. 

Has there been much spirit in the entire history of the Cup?  One hundred and seventy years of legal dispute and stacking the cards and throwing rattles out of prams. Thinking about it, it’s a wonder Trump has never been involved. 

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3 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

I'm amazed that any Kiwis on here would even contemplate UK tuning up NZ because according to them UK are far too slow.

And if the recent speed against AM and LR is true then it's irrelevant because we won't be eliminated

Good logic there, Riddle. That'll have one or two scratching their mullets. ;-)

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3 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

I'm amazed that any Kiwis on here would even contemplate UK tuning up NZ because according to them UK are far too slow.

We could give them a lap head start?

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4 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

I'm amazed that any Kiwis on here would even contemplate UK tuning up NZ because according to them UK are far too slow.

And if the recent speed against AM and LR is true then it's irrelevant because we won't be eliminated

Still handy for pre start practice...

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For the record, I don’t agree with any Challenger helping the Defender retain the Cup. The difference between these challengers and SBTJ is these Challengers are completely independent of the Defender where Japan was completely dependent on Oracle. They were, for all intents and purposes, Oracle Team USA’s Challenger arm - created to give Oracle a foot in the Challenger Camp. There is nothing like that this time round, as the Challengers are clearly here to win. Having said that, if INEOS is going to help anyone, it should be the Challenger, not the Defender.

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3 hours ago, rh3000 said:

You've obviously not seen the videos of challengers doing 'co-ordinated racing' in a way that is also inconsistent with the prot...

You've always been a stickler for the 'spirit' of things eh... so no doubt that footage will raise your hackles too :-)

You do realize there has been arbitration, a settlement, and an agreement on ground rules for coordinated sailing, don't you?

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37 minutes ago, accnick said:

You do realize there has been arbitration, a settlement, and an agreement on ground rules for coordinated sailing, don't you?

But WE didn't agree on it! LOL!!!!!

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54 minutes ago, accnick said:

You do realize there has been arbitration, a settlement, and an agreement on ground rules for coordinated sailing, don't you?

Of course! As there has been for practice racing!

But that's beside the point, which is stingers constant refuge of 'spirit' irrespective of legality, judgement, arbitration or agreement.

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5 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Or that the last thing they want to do is confirm any improvement of INEOS  before they have to race them for real. 
 

 

Ah ah, do you have any proof ? Seriously, do you even understand the object of the discussion and SR point ? :lol:

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TE was right about them training together, he most probably is with Ben as CoR if they win. Did Ben consider how TNZ behaved with their present CoR, rejecting the fault for any problem on the Italians ? And is Ben so desperate that he already negociates a place of CoR ?

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8 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

TE was right about them training together, he most probably is with Ben as CoR if they win. Did Ben consider how TNZ behaved with their present CoR, rejecting the fault for any problem on the Italians ? And is Ben so desperate that he already negociates a place of CoR ?

My fellow Kiwis will be along to debate the issue you in 3....2....1.

Maybe some poms too.

LOL!

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6 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

I'm amazed that any Kiwis on here would even contemplate UK tuning up NZ because according to them UK are far too slow.

And if the recent speed against AM and LR is true then it's irrelevant because we won't be eliminated

It works OK, because ETNZ gets to practice passing three times during the race, while not having to sandbag to let INEOS back in front... 

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4 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

So whats this about -  Behind paywall

America's Cup 2021: Challengers question viability of racing ahead of Prada Cup

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-challengers-question-viability-of-racing-ahead-of-prada-cup/QTL5CJ6YXG66AOCG2AYOO34424/

 

Perhaps similaR to this!

 

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/america-s-cup-2021/2021/01/america-s-cup-2021-challengers-fear-serious-failures-threaten-regatta-s-credibility.html

 

I don’t pay for herald either 

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Which is exactly why the RC and Iain Murray wanted practice racing in between to identify and resolve these exact issues before racing starts, but the Challengers couldn't get past their paranoia of giving the Defender more training time. So, they can deal with it. Put up or shut up. No excuses. You win, you move forward to the match. You lose, pack your shit and catch the first bird home.

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Dockside scuttlebutt is all the contenders have encountered issues with integrating the supplied foil cant mechanism software with their own in-house control systems programs maybe the Kiwis hold an advantage in this area.

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25 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Dockside scuttlebutt is all the contenders have encountered issues with integrating the supplied foil cant mechanism software with their own in-house control systems programs maybe the Kiwis hold an advantage in this area.

You saw some examples of this affecting etnz and ineos before Xmas. 

Total cluster fuck.

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46 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Which is exactly why the RC and Iain Murray wanted practice racing in between to identify and resolve these exact issues before racing starts, but the Challengers couldn't get past their paranoia of giving the Defender more training time. So, they can deal with it. Put up or shut up. No excuses. You win, you move forward to the match. You lose, pack your shit and catch the first bird home.

Sorry but I disagree. 

The competitors all have a right to expect supplied information and components to  be fit for purpose and they shouldn't have to agree to changes in the protocol (I.e. extra races) in order to ensure this.

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44 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Sorry but I disagree. 

The competitors all have a right to expect supplied information and components to  be fit for purpose and they shouldn't have to agree to changes in the protocol (I.e. extra races) in order to ensure this.

3. The Respondent:
a. threatens, without any justification and so as to gain a competitive advantage, 
to cancel the Final Rehearsal, and replace it with Official Practice Racing despite 
the lack of agreement by and between COR/D as required by Article 15.1(b) 
of the Protocol; and

b. in an improper attempt to force the Applicant to concede to its demands, has
given instructions to ACE’s employed staff (some of whom are paid 50% by
COR) to prevent the use of the fleet of Protectors during the Final Rehearsal
of the RMS and TV Production.

4. As a consequence of the Respondent’s refusal to comply with its contractual
obligations, and having regard to the importance of the Final Rehearsal, the
Applicant is forced, in the interests of the AC36 and of all Competitors, to request,
once again, the assistance of this Panel to stop the unreasonable and illegitimate
behaviour of the Respondent”.

At points 28-29 of the Application, the Applicant makes the following “Request for
urgent relief”:
“28. In light of the above, the Applicant seeks the following relief:
(i) A declaration that the Applicant is entitled to use the Protectors and the
assistant boats and other equipment from now until the end of the PRADA
Cup Challenger Selection Series.

(ii) An order that the Respondent must withdraw any instructions which it has
issued, and is forbidden to give any further instructions, to ACE employees
in relation to the use of the Protectors and of the assistant boats and other
equipment by or on behalf of the Applicant from now until the end of the
PRADA Cup Challenger Selection Series.

(iii) An Order that for an appropriate penalty to reflect the fact that this is not the
first time that the Respondent has been in blatant breach of its agreements
with the Applicant and / or the Protocol.

(iv) An Order for the Respondent to pay the costs of this Application.

American Magic response":

“The Race Management System is a complex electronic system supplied and
provided by the organizers and it includes the Media System on board each AC75.
For the crew to see the on-board instrument data while racing, such data must first
pass through the Media System and from there to the displays and screens of the AC75.

Furthermore, all racecourse information and all umpire calls are managed and
received by a competing AC75 by the Race Management System.

In short, with the failure of the Race Management System no fair racing is possible.

Leading to the ACWS and during the ACWS, all Competitors have experienced
serious failures of the Race Management System and the Media System which
fundamentally curtailed their ability to race and foil the boat safely.

New York Yacht Club American Magic have serious concerns that failures will occur
again during racing and it supports the conduct of the “Final Rehearsals of the Race
Management System” on January 11th and 12th with the expectation that racing in the 
Prada Cup and the America’s Cup will not be unfairly prejudiced by any electronic 
failures of the Race Management System or the Media System.

Preventing the means of doing so, will likely lead to further failures during official
racing, reputational damage, further claims before the Panel, and possible
disruptions to the Event.

On another topic, it is vitally important that all the data from Patriot USA-5 that the
organizers receive during these rehearsals is treated with absolute confidentiality.

Since these Final Rehearsals of the Race Management System do not constitute
official racing, we consider that Article 30.2 of the Protocol does not apply and that
all data from Patriot USA-5 belongs to New York Yacht Club American Magic.

We reserve our right to request the organizers to ensure that the data remains
confidential and to request the complete deletion of such data and any copies
thereof after the rehearsals.

Finally, we request the Panel to remind COR/D to ensure that “adequate measures
are put in place so that performance information of individual yachts is not available
to any other Competitor” as required by Article 30.3”.

In its Response ETNZ in substance submitted that:

“4. For effective testing of the Race Management System (including the electronic umpire system known as Ump Bot) and TV production, ideally two yachts need to be
on the course together in a match race situation. This requires the yachts to be sailing in a “coordinated manner”. These matters have been confirmed to ETNZ by
both the Chief Umpire, Richard Slater and the COR/D head of TV, Stephen Nuttall.


ETNZ submits that it is clear that it is in the best interests of the Event for coordinated sailing to occur as part of these tests, and that this is position under the Protocol.


5. The background facts offered by the Applicant conveniently ignore that the dispute between the Defender and the Challenger of Record is wider than just a
disagreement over the supply of the fleet of Protector support boats.

At the heart of the matter is the disagreement over whether the Final Rehearsal is an official practice permitting coordinated sailing under Article 15 of the Protocol.

 

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26 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Sorry but I disagree. 

The competitors all have a right to expect supplied information and components to  be fit for purpose and they shouldn't have to agree to changes in the protocol (I.e. extra races) in order to ensure this.

Word is only the Frackers were keen to add extra practice race encounters before the Prada Cup.

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4 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Yup agreed that’s a separate issue altogether however the integration woes are not confined to just those matters.

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12 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

3. The Respondent:
a. threatens, without any justification and so as to gain a competitive advantage, 
to cancel the Final Rehearsal, and replace it with Official Practice Racing despite 
the lack of agreement by and between COR/D as required by Article 15.1(b) 
of the Protocol; and

b. in an improper attempt to force the Applicant to concede to its demands, has
given instructions to ACE’s employed staff (some of whom are paid 50% by
COR) to prevent the use of the fleet of Protectors during the Final Rehearsal
of the RMS and TV Production.

4. As a consequence of the Respondent’s refusal to comply with its contractual
obligations, and having regard to the importance of the Final Rehearsal, the
Applicant is forced, in the interests of the AC36 and of all Competitors, to request,
once again, the assistance of this Panel to stop the unreasonable and illegitimate
behaviour of the Respondent”.

At points 28-29 of the Application, the Applicant makes the following “Request for
urgent relief”:
“28. In light of the above, the Applicant seeks the following relief:
(i) A declaration that the Applicant is entitled to use the Protectors and the
assistant boats and other equipment from now until the end of the PRADA
Cup Challenger Selection Series.

(ii) An order that the Respondent must withdraw any instructions which it has
issued, and is forbidden to give any further instructions, to ACE employees
in relation to the use of the Protectors and of the assistant boats and other
equipment by or on behalf of the Applicant from now until the end of the
PRADA Cup Challenger Selection Series.

(iii) An Order that for an appropriate penalty to reflect the fact that this is not the
first time that the Respondent has been in blatant breach of its agreements
with the Applicant and / or the Protocol.

(iv) An Order for the Respondent to pay the costs of this Application.

American Magic response":

“The Race Management System is a complex electronic system supplied and
provided by the organizers and it includes the Media System on board each AC75.
For the crew to see the on-board instrument data while racing, such data must first
pass through the Media System and from there to the displays and screens of the AC75.

Furthermore, all racecourse information and all umpire calls are managed and
received by a competing AC75 by the Race Management System.

In short, with the failure of the Race Management System no fair racing is possible.

Leading to the ACWS and during the ACWS, all Competitors have experienced
serious failures of the Race Management System and the Media System which
fundamentally curtailed their ability to race and foil the boat safely.

New York Yacht Club American Magic have serious concerns that failures will occur
again during racing and it supports the conduct of the “Final Rehearsals of the Race
Management System” on January 11th and 12th with the expectation that racing in the 
Prada Cup and the America’s Cup will not be unfairly prejudiced by any electronic 
failures of the Race Management System or the Media System.

Preventing the means of doing so, will likely lead to further failures during official
racing, reputational damage, further claims before the Panel, and possible
disruptions to the Event.

On another topic, it is vitally important that all the data from Patriot USA-5 that the
organizers receive during these rehearsals is treated with absolute confidentiality.

Since these Final Rehearsals of the Race Management System do not constitute
official racing, we consider that Article 30.2 of the Protocol does not apply and that
all data from Patriot USA-5 belongs to New York Yacht Club American Magic.

We reserve our right to request the organizers to ensure that the data remains
confidential and to request the complete deletion of such data and any copies
thereof after the rehearsals.

Finally, we request the Panel to remind COR/D to ensure that “adequate measures
are put in place so that performance information of individual yachts is not available
to any other Competitor” as required by Article 30.3”.

In its Response ETNZ in substance submitted that:

“4. For effective testing of the Race Management System (including the electronic umpire system known as Ump Bot) and TV production, ideally two yachts need to be
on the course together in a match race situation. This requires the yachts to be sailing in a “coordinated manner”. These matters have been confirmed to ETNZ by
both the Chief Umpire, Richard Slater and the COR/D head of TV, Stephen Nuttall.


ETNZ submits that it is clear that it is in the best interests of the Event for coordinated sailing to occur as part of these tests, and that this is position under the Protocol.


5. The background facts offered by the Applicant conveniently ignore that the dispute between the Defender and the Challenger of Record is wider than just a
disagreement over the supply of the fleet of Protector support boats.

At the heart of the matter is the disagreement over whether the Final Rehearsal is an official practice permitting coordinated sailing under Article 15 of the Protocol.

 

Race management system is still fucked, 

to fix it kiwis want  racing so they can use two boats data to ensure accuracy of the RMS
 

Terry on the other hand isn’t sure he wants all the data coming off his boat to be fed back through the RMS to the defender do they can fine tune the issues with the RMS 

such as boat location to boundary, mark, start box etc as in with that information is all of AMs performance numbers. 
 

he wants assurance that the data won’t be used or seen by those that might gain advantage. 
 

kiwi response seems to be is we need to race stfu.. while ignoring Terry’s  request for not digging through his data. 

is that a fair summary? 
 

only for them to get some racing and fuck it up by falling over 

 

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17 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Yup agreed that’s a separate issue altogether however the integration woes are not confined to just those matters.

Yes it is the telemetry issue we saw prior to Xmas.

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24 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

3. The Respondent:
a. threatens, without any justification and so as to gain a competitive advantage, 
to cancel the Final Rehearsal, and replace it with Official Practice Racing despite 
the lack of agreement by and between COR/D as required by Article 15.1(b) 
of the Protocol; and

b. in an improper attempt to force the Applicant to concede to its demands, has
given instructions to ACE’s employed staff (some of whom are paid 50% by
COR) to prevent the use of the fleet of Protectors during the Final Rehearsal
of the RMS and TV Production.

4. As a consequence of the Respondent’s refusal to comply with its contractual
obligations, and having regard to the importance of the Final Rehearsal, the
Applicant is forced, in the interests of the AC36 and of all Competitors, to request,
once again, the assistance of this Panel to stop the unreasonable and illegitimate
behaviour of the Respondent”.

At points 28-29 of the Application, the Applicant makes the following “Request for
urgent relief”:
“28. In light of the above, the Applicant seeks the following relief:
(i) A declaration that the Applicant is entitled to use the Protectors and the
assistant boats and other equipment from now until the end of the PRADA
Cup Challenger Selection Series.

(ii) An order that the Respondent must withdraw any instructions which it has
issued, and is forbidden to give any further instructions, to ACE employees
in relation to the use of the Protectors and of the assistant boats and other
equipment by or on behalf of the Applicant from now until the end of the
PRADA Cup Challenger Selection Series.

(iii) An Order that for an appropriate penalty to reflect the fact that this is not the
first time that the Respondent has been in blatant breach of its agreements
with the Applicant and / or the Protocol.

(iv) An Order for the Respondent to pay the costs of this Application.

American Magic response":

“The Race Management System is a complex electronic system supplied and
provided by the organizers and it includes the Media System on board each AC75.
For the crew to see the on-board instrument data while racing, such data must first
pass through the Media System and from there to the displays and screens of the AC75.

Furthermore, all racecourse information and all umpire calls are managed and
received by a competing AC75 by the Race Management System.

In short, with the failure of the Race Management System no fair racing is possible.

Leading to the ACWS and during the ACWS, all Competitors have experienced
serious failures of the Race Management System and the Media System which
fundamentally curtailed their ability to race and foil the boat safely.

New York Yacht Club American Magic have serious concerns that failures will occur
again during racing and it supports the conduct of the “Final Rehearsals of the Race
Management System” on January 11th and 12th with the expectation that racing in the 
Prada Cup and the America’s Cup will not be unfairly prejudiced by any electronic 
failures of the Race Management System or the Media System.

Preventing the means of doing so, will likely lead to further failures during official
racing, reputational damage, further claims before the Panel, and possible
disruptions to the Event.

On another topic, it is vitally important that all the data from Patriot USA-5 that the
organizers receive during these rehearsals is treated with absolute confidentiality.

Since these Final Rehearsals of the Race Management System do not constitute
official racing, we consider that Article 30.2 of the Protocol does not apply and that
all data from Patriot USA-5 belongs to New York Yacht Club American Magic.

We reserve our right to request the organizers to ensure that the data remains
confidential and to request the complete deletion of such data and any copies
thereof after the rehearsals.

Finally, we request the Panel to remind COR/D to ensure that “adequate measures
are put in place so that performance information of individual yachts is not available
to any other Competitor” as required by Article 30.3”.

In its Response ETNZ in substance submitted that:

“4. For effective testing of the Race Management System (including the electronic umpire system known as Ump Bot) and TV production, ideally two yachts need to be
on the course together in a match race situation. This requires the yachts to be sailing in a “coordinated manner”. These matters have been confirmed to ETNZ by
both the Chief Umpire, Richard Slater and the COR/D head of TV, Stephen Nuttall.


ETNZ submits that it is clear that it is in the best interests of the Event for coordinated sailing to occur as part of these tests, and that this is position under the Protocol.


5. The background facts offered by the Applicant conveniently ignore that the dispute between the Defender and the Challenger of Record is wider than just a
disagreement over the supply of the fleet of Protector support boats.

At the heart of the matter is the disagreement over whether the Final Rehearsal is an official practice permitting coordinated sailing under Article 15 of the Protocol.

 

none of this supports your initial statement regarding "extra" (i.e additional to the protocol  ) races so I'm not sure what your point is.

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7 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Race management system is still fucked, 

to fix it kiwis want  racing so they can use two boats data to ensure accuracy of the RMS
 

Terry on the other hand isn’t sure he wants all the data coming off his boat to be fed back through the RMS to the defender do they can fine tune the issues with the RMS 

such as boat location to boundary, mark, start box etc as in with that information is all of AMs performance numbers. 
 

he wants assurance that the data won’t be used or seen by those that might gain advantage. 
 

kiwi response seems to be is we need to race stfu.. while ignoring Terry’s  request for not digging through his data. 

is that a fair summary? 
 

only for them to get some racing and fuck it up by falling over 

 

In other words, they went to arbitration because they don't want to race the Kiwi's because they're already faster than everyone else as it is, and they don't want to give them extra training time.

Terry thinks his opinion matters, when he's just a bystander to the whole thing and Ben is toeing the company line.

ETNZ's response is harden the F**k up you pack of wankers and get your asses out on the water.

As for falling over, they did the same in Bermuda and look what happened.

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Just now, jaysper said:

none of this supports your initial statement regarding "extra" (i.e additional to the protocol  ) races so I'm not sure what your point is.

They're not additional to the protocol.

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Just now, Forourselves said:

They're not additional to the protocol.

Ok, then I at least have no issue with that part of your statement based on that clarification. 

However the clear implication of the word extra is that the races were over and above what was agreed. 

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Just now, jaysper said:

Ok, then I at least have no issue with that part of your statement based on that clarification. 

However the clear implication of the word extra is that the races were over and above what was agreed. 

The clarification was whether "Practice racing" defined "Final Rehearsal" clearly Richard Slater and Iain Murray agreed it was, considering the equipment that needed to be tested in the manner it did.

Clearly LR and AM didn't want "Official Practice racing" because they were afraid their boat data would be passed on to the Kiwi's so wanted it confidential and deleted after use.

All this put under the false pretense of the use of the Protector Fleet.

Sounds like ETNZ have had enough of LR's Bullshit and are starting to push back.

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