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Having a race like that is why the committee was correct in postponing the race so many times. I think that the race was worth the wait.  Cheers to the Race Committee!

Semi Final Race 1 book is open - hit like for an AM win, dislike for LRPP.  Don’t sit on the fence now!

Funny when I click on the cup site I get this:

Posted Images

4 minutes ago, RantyDave said:

Looking at the video, I think you're right. Just before they go to the moon there's a BIG flurry of water off the port foil. I bet the housing gave out and it ripped backwards, giving it way too much lift at a really bad moment.....

I'm not so sure about that, I think it may have just been the change in angle on the foil as they lose the rudder and the bow shoots up, they get more lift and then its game over. It's pretty similar to ETNZ's first capsize in 2019 I think, except much quicker...

 

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3 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

LR tender attached to the bow tow rope.  no signs of UK

Of course not - they would have headed in after their race finished a long time before this incident

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Just now, crashtack said:

I'm not so sure about that, I think it may have just been the change in angle on the foil as they lose the rudder and the bow shoots up, they get more lift and then its game over. It's pretty similar to ETNZ's first capsize in 2019 I think, except much quicker...

 

Really?  AM was traveling at about 40 knots when they launched out of the water.

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3 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Of course not - they would have headed in after their race finished a long time before this incident

Seems there are some of Ineos’s tenders in there too

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How long did it take OR to get back to the dock when they broke up in SF Bay? Seems like it didn't get back to the dock until the next morning.

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Just now, nroose said:

How long did it take OR to get back to the dock when they broke up in SF Bay? Seems like it didn't get back to the dock until the next morning.

It was at least 12-14 hours after the capsize.

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1 minute ago, nroose said:

How long did it take OR to get back to the dock when they broke up in SF Bay? Seems like it didn't get back to the dock until the next morning.

a very long time

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11 hours ago, NZL4EVER said:

Any predictions for today? 

Mine there will be a capsize.... 

Nailed it! 

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10 minutes ago, mako23 said:

It’s called sportsmanship 

Correct. Personally I expect more from the teams I support than the basic "what won't get me arrested" package.

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They have 12 days to get this boat up and ready 

plucky for them there’s a large number of boat builders in Auckland, including a few in workworth. Go ask jimmy he knows them well 

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4 minutes ago, Rushman said:

She will not be happy 

In these gender diverse times in which we live, Who am I or you to question gender?  My bad if he is a she.

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1 minute ago, JJD said:

No hull damage at all. 

AM’s cockpits and deck  aren’t fully sealed so down flooding got them very quickly

Really?  That's great news if true.

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1 minute ago, mako23 said:

They have 12 days to get this boat up and ready 

be pretty boring till then, so do they race next friday and saturday in a 2 boat race in the slim chance this calamity is fixed and rolling I wonder ?

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Just now, crashtack said:

4, no? I thought racing starts again on the 22nd

Nope they just need to turn up for the semifinal races that start on the 29th of Jan 

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1 minute ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I didn't see Larry and Russell lining up to help in Bermuda!

Correct. But as I said I expect more from the teams that I SUPPORT.

In Bermuda there was only one team that I was dark on and that was Orifice.

I actually rather liked Artemis - they conducted themselves really well.

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1 minute ago, JJD said:

No hull damage at all. 

AM’s cockpits and deck  aren’t fully sealed so down flooding got them very quickly

Where would the water have flooded in to? The cockpit isn't enclosed and pretty shallow...

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On the bright side, the saving grace from this situation, for the event anyway, are the images being beamed around the world, of the teams working together to assist their competitor and recover their boat. Images of team chase boats lined up side by side with crew members climbing on rooves of chase boats hauling water logged mainsails around is going to be a lasting memory for this event. Big ups to all the teams.

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3 minutes ago, JJD said:

No hull damage at all. 

AM’s cockpits and deck  aren’t fully sealed so down flooding got them very quickly

In that case, it should be a fast tow in.

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1 minute ago, Kate short for Bob said:

They could sit out the Round Robin and just line up for the semi final.  2nd plays 3rd to challenge the winner of the RR.

That would give INEOS the straight run into the final.

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4 minutes ago, JJD said:

No hull damage at all. 

AM’s cockpits and deck  aren’t fully sealed so down flooding got them very quickly

thats why they have the jib wrapped around the bow and the pumps are barely keeping up. 

no.

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4 minutes ago, crashtack said:

4, no? I thought racing starts again on the 22nd

But elimination doesn't happen till the semis.

But they need the development and practice time too, so still a major blow for them.

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9 minutes ago, JJD said:

No hull damage at all. 

AM’s cockpits and deck  aren’t fully sealed so down flooding got them very quickly

11.8 The hull surface shall enclose a volume of at least 70 m3 , which must include: 3

(a) an enclosed watertight volume of at least 40 m3 , situated entirely forward of plane that is 9.500 m forward of TRP, which may be subdivided; and

So 40 ton of buoyancy in a 7.5 ton boat. If the bow's underwater, it's not water tight any more.

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4 minutes ago, JJD said:

No hull damage at all. 

AM’s cockpits and deck  aren’t fully sealed so down flooding got them very quickly

Really? If that was the case she would've been pumped out pretty quickly and be on the tow line by now. If not in the shed. Nope, she has some serious damage.

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

Really? If that was the case she would've been pumped out pretty quickly and be on the tow line by now. If not in the shed. Nope, she has some serious damage.

Agree. Hull skin fracture, prolly.

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12 minutes ago, mako23 said:

They have 12 days to get this boat up and ready 

plucky for them there’s a large number of boat builders in Auckland, including a few in workworth. Go ask jimmy he knows them well 

Supposed to race Jan 22 

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5 minutes ago, crashtack said:

Where would the water have flooded in to? The cockpit isn't enclosed and pretty shallow...

Hmmm obviously no knowledge of downflooding. 

With unsealed cockpits the water floods into the hull proper. The hull flooded with water and sank lower and lower. 

If the cockpits and deck were fully sealed then water would have only flooded the cockpit which would have been a very easy recovery. 

AMs last capsize was in smooth water and they were righted very quickly. Today got out of hand far quicker than their own tender could resolve. 

Real fucken shame for AM. Hope they can get it sorted but seems to me like a full strip out and recommission. 

As Homer would say, DOH. 

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15 minutes ago, JJD said:

No hull damage at all. 

AM’s cockpits and deck  aren’t fully sealed so down flooding got them very quickly

I seem to recall some class rules about bulkheads etc... will be worth some reading tonight...

Edit: Ahh I see @RobG already found them...

Either this hull was breached signficantly, or it wasn't compliant, or something else...

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Fothering refers in nautical contexts to covering a leak in a ship with a sail containing rope fibres to prevent it from sinking after being damaged. This was the technique used to help to refloat HMS Endeavour after she went aground on the Great Barrier Reef on 11 June 1770.

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8 minutes ago, Varan said:

In that case, it should be a fast tow in.

 

Just now, rh3000 said:

I seem to recall some class rules about bulkheads etc... will be worth some reading tonight...

Yet the kiwis can tip and sail the next day ? 

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26 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Of course not - they would have headed in after their race finished a long time before this incident

There was an Ineos tender there helping, just one of the smaller ones.  ETNZ sent all of their big boys over to help the AM tenders try to stabilize the situation

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2 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

 

Yet the kiwis can tip and sail the next day ? 

Well, they've had quite a bit more practice. ;-)

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5 minutes ago, JJD said:

Hmmm obviously no knowledge of downflooding. 

With unsealed cockpits the water floods into the hull proper. The hull flooded with water and sank lower and lower. 

If the cockpits and deck were fully sealed then water would have only flooded the cockpit which would have been a very easy recovery. 

AMs last capsize was in smooth water and they were righted very quickly. Today got out of hand far quicker than their own tender could resolve. 

Real fucken shame for AM. Hope they can get it sorted but seems to me like a full strip out and recommission. 

As Homer would say, DOH. 

She was actually righted fairly quickly, but she was already going down by the bow by the time she was righted. Thats BS. No one builds a foiling boat with a tendency to capsize with unsealed cockpits! Thats just stupid!

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Bow damage answers all the evidence except how ?

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1 minute ago, The_Alchemist said:

they say it is being towed backwards at about 2 knots.  about 10 knots away from the base

Going to be a long night, but of course the better condition they get it back the better the outcome, some hours here and there will not matter..

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7 minutes ago, JJD said:

Hmmm obviously no knowledge of downflooding. 

With unsealed cockpits the water floods into the hull proper. The hull flooded with water and sank lower and lower. 

If the cockpits and deck were fully sealed then water would have only flooded the cockpit which would have been a very easy recovery. 

AMs last capsize was in smooth water and they were righted very quickly. Today got out of hand far quicker than their own tender could resolve. 

Real fucken shame for AM. Hope they can get it sorted but seems to me like a full strip out and recommission. 

As Homer would say, DOH. 

why would the cockpit be open to the actual hull? It's not like they don't get water/spray over the bow in regular operation

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

She was actually righted fairly quickly, but she was already going down by the bow by the time she was righted. Pretty fucking stupid design for a boat that was widely known to capsize, to build a boat that was completely open to the lower hull from the cockpit! I don't think Botin would be that stupid.

Please, try to know what the hell you are talking about.  The boat survived an earlier capsize.  It is reported to have major damage to the port bow which is the source of water.

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Assuming AM doesnt show up until the semi final.......then the RR will consist of two more races between LR and Ineos.

If LR wins both races than it will be a dead heat tie

Both boats will be 6:2 and Each will have beaten the other 2 times, so I guess they will have to have a 3rd race,

On the other hand, Ineos only has to win one of the two races and they advance to final. 

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1 minute ago, The_Alchemist said:

Please, try to know what the hell you are talking about.  The boat survived an earlier capsize.  It is reported to have major damage to the port bow which is the source of water.

Fuck you. Thats exactly what I'm saying! next time read the discussion before getting involved in someone elses conversation asshole!

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24 minutes ago, vanaheim said:

In these gender diverse times in which we live, Who am I or you to question gender?  My bad if he is a she.

Rebecca Morgan - doing a great job, and showing her competitive sailing bias by calling pretty much any floation device a 'mark' :D

https://fb.watch/33CyY48uQj/

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

She was actually righted fairly quickly, but she was already going down by the bow by the time she was righted. Pretty fucking stupid design for a boat that was widely known to capsize, to build a boat that was completely open to the lower hull from the cockpit! I don't think Botin would be that stupid.

The class rule requires a fairly large (> 40 m^3) watertight volume. That watertight compartment must have been breached by some failure of the hull.

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7 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

She was actually righted fairly quickly, but she was already going down by the bow by the time she was righted. Thats BS. No one builds a foiling boat with a tendency to capsize with unsealed cockpits! Thats just stupid!

And if that’s the case they deserve to be flogged to death

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35 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I was just about to say that.  Probably more as I dont see them going much faster than 5 knots.  

So its apparently 20 miles (presumable land not nautical), so 17 nautical miles @ 4 knots is approx 4 hours. So home by midnight hopefully.

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Just now, crashtack said:

So how much did GD pay Deano to bin it and keep foilers in the cup?

There's no point in Deano loosing it now.  If anything his patriotic duty would be to make it to the finals and loose to ETNZ.

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Just watched the replay as slow as I could (using Kayo sports) and it really doesn't look like any part of the bow hit the water even remotely hard enough to cause damage.

So I'm guessing it must be due to the pressure on the foil/foil housing that casued damage around the hull?

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2 minutes ago, jaysper said:

So its apparently 20 miles (presumable land not nautical), so 17 nautical miles @ 4 knots is approx 4 hours. So home by midnight hopefully.

Just as well the forecast thunderstorms haven't come in, eh? Horrendous enough as it is.

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13 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Assuming AM doesnt show up until the semi final.......then the RR will consist of two more races between LR and Ineos.

If LR wins both races than it will be a dead heat tie

Both boats will be 6:2 and Each will have beaten the other 2 times, so I guess they will have to have a 3rd race,

On the other hand, Ineos only has to win one of the two races and they advance to final. 

From: The WORLD SAILING RACING RULES of SAILING AMERICA’S CUP EDITION, Version 3.02

A3 TIES
A3.1 Breaking a tie in a Round-Robin Stage
Ties between two or more competitors in a round-robin stage shall be broken by the
following methods, in order, until all ties are broken. When one or more ties are only
partially broken, rules A3.1(a) to A3.1(f) shall be reapplied to them. Ties shall be decided in
favour of the competitor(s) who
(a) placed in order, has the highest score in the matches between the tied competitors;
(b) when the tie is between two competitors, has won the last match between the two
competitors;
(c) has the most points against the Competitor placed highest in the round-robin stage or,
if necessary, second highest, and so on until the tie is broken. When two separate ties
have to be resolved but the resolution of each depends upon resolving the other, the
following principles shall be used in the rule A3.1(c) procedure:
(1) the higher-place tie shall be resolved before the lower- place tie, and
(2) all the competitors in the lower-place tie shall be treated as a single competitor
for the purposes of rule A3.1(c).

(d) wins the second race in the following sail-off process amongst the three competitors:
The highest place Challenger based on relative places of the Challengers in the
ACWS regatta (not including the Christmas Race) progresses to the sail-off second
race. If there is no highest place Challenger, the winner of a draw progresses to the
sail-off second race. The other two competitors race each other and the winner
progresses to the sail-off second race.
The winner of the second race is then the top ranked competitor. The winner of the
first race, or the highest place after A3.1 is applied, is then the second ranked
competitor;
(e) if one or both races of the sail-off process described in rule A3.1(d) are not scored,
then rule A3.1 is used to break the tie in each applicable race of the sail-off process
that was not scored.
(f) between two competitors, has the highest place Challenger based on relative places
of the Challengers in the ACWS regatta (not including the Christmas Race), or the
winner of a draw if there is no highest place Challenger;

So if AM doesn't sail in the remaining round robin races and LR beats INEOS in their next two meetings, LR wins the round robin stage and goes directly to the final.

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2 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Apparently this is enroute

20210117070735_936937.jpeg

They'll run out of daylight next. Pretty soon in fact.

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2 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Just before LSD stream stopped, the tow had halted... apparently they were sinking again..

Oh fuck, these poor fuckers can't buy a break, can they?

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