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3 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Yup hull failure forward of the foil cant arm guys are attempting to seal the rupture in this pic brown stain on whatever they have draped across the hull and foredeck looks like oil.

 

F03C9C9B-957D-44D3-801F-2A09F996DEDA.jpeg.73e4f69da0f5023533fff7bb8e4f80cb.jpeg

 

Also explains the diver in the water

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Having a race like that is why the committee was correct in postponing the race so many times. I think that the race was worth the wait.  Cheers to the Race Committee!

Semi Final Race 1 book is open - hit like for an AM win, dislike for LRPP.  Don’t sit on the fence now!

Please just stick to the facts and not your opinion.  You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how this all works.  The flu is down because of all the hand washing, social distancing, mask wearing,

Posted Images

A statement from the American Magic team:

The team’s AC75 racing yacht, PATRIOT, was damaged during the incident and began taking on water. American Magic received rapid assistance from the three other America’s Cup teams, along with America’s Cup Event Ltd, the race management team, Coastguard New Zealand, the Auckland Harbormaster, and local fire and police personnel.

Efforts to stabilize PATRIOT and get the yacht back to shore are currently underway. American Magic is sincerely thankful for all of the assistance rendered to the team following today’s incident.

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Just now, crashtack said:

I wonder what they were doing in the first picture...

Hatch cover (which must be watertight and closed when racing) was removed pretty quickly so they could assess the damage. Bet all they could see was black water…

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6 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Yup hull failure forward of the foil cant arm guys are attempting to seal the rupture in this pic brown stain on whatever they have draped across the hull and foredeck looks like oil.

 

F03C9C9B-957D-44D3-801F-2A09F996DEDA.jpeg.73e4f69da0f5023533fff7bb8e4f80cb.jpeg

 

More like the reflection of the buoys on the bow.

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Wait, so AM can sit the RR out? Wouldn't they need to get a dispensation to do that? Doesn't the protocol state all teams must compete in all events in order to qualify for the CSS? Probably far from everyones minds right now, but correct me if I'm wrong...

If AM sits out the rest of the RR series, INEOS would gain 2 points automatically on 6 points, of a total of 8 points available right? As they're undefeated now, so there are another 4 points total available to each team?

If INEOS then decides to sit out the rest as well, that would give LR 6 points as well, as they would gain 2 points from INEOS, and 2 points from AM, leaving them tied on 6 points a piece, as LR are on 2 points now. 

If I were INEOS, i'd be a little put out that AM can sit it out until the 29th, while they themselves have to risk the same potential damage to their own boat.

There is still huge stakes involved in the event. AM sitting the RR out would throw the whole series into disarray I would think?

 

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Just now, crashtack said:

image.png.0ea373461453d0784857ff4a9afa3bfe.png

 

I wonder what they were doing in the first picture...

 

Character building?

But actually, I bet the hull failing was quite loud, so they probably knew something was wrong and went to take a peek a it

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1 minute ago, crashtack said:

image.png.0ea373461453d0784857ff4a9afa3bfe.png

image.png.7f0ee1fac0cb39c0516d64194c636618.png

I wonder what they were doing in the first picture...

Trying to stuff something into the raptured skin hole to stem the flow, maybe?

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2 minutes ago, crashtack said:

 

 

I wonder what they were doing in the first picture...

There is a hatch both sides of the foredeck, so they were just using the one above the water to get inside for a look.  Best way to see the damage if you haven't got a diver (yet)

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18 minutes ago, jaysper said:

So its apparently 20 miles (presumable land not nautical), so 17 nautical miles @ 4 knots is approx 4 hours. So home by midnight hopefully.

It's about 12km from the viaduct as the crow flys. It's a bit further by sea as it is a dog leg. 20km max.

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1 minute ago, jsn7821 said:

 

Character building?

But actually, I bet the hull failing was quite loud, so they probably knew something was wrong and went to take a peek a it

Yeah I hope this didn't pop the cork and accelerate things..

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Just now, rh3000 said:

Yeah I hope this didn't pop the cork and accelerate things..

I remember seeing on the live feed that they put the lid back on, if that's what you mean.

 

I also remember it looking super sketchy, like they could have dropped it in the drink.

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Wait, so AM can sit the RR out? Wouldn't they need to get a dispensation to do that? Doesn't the protocol state all teams must compete in all events in order to qualify for the CSS? Probably far from everyones minds right now, but correct me if I'm wrong...

If AM sits out the rest of the RR series, INEOS would gain 2 points automatically on 6 points, of a total of 8 points available right? As they're undefeated now, so there are another 4 points total available to each team?

If INEOS then decides to sit out the rest as well, that would give LR 6 points as well, as they would gain 2 points from INEOS, and 2 points from AM, leaving them tied on 6 points a piece, as LR are on 2 points now. 

If I were INEOS, i'd be a little put out that AM can sit it out until the 29th, while they themselves have to risk the same potential damage to their own boat.

There is still huge stakes involved in the event. AM sitting the RR out would throw the whole series into disarray I would think?

 

Ok so AM turns up at the starting line with an Opti?

As for your "not competing" argument isn't it more "not completing" the event.  I dont see anything in the rules saying they can't do that.

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14 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Wait, so AM can sit the RR out?

The rest of the races, yes.

Quote

Wouldn't they need to get a dispensation to do that?

No, they just lose their remaining races DNC.

Quote

Doesn't the protocol state all teams must compete in all events in order to qualify for the CSS?

This event, the Prada Cup, is the challenger selection series, they're competing. I don't think anyone's going to protest.

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2 minutes ago, RobG said:

The rest of the races, yes.

No, they just lose their remaining races DNC.

This event, the Prada Cup, is the challenger selection series, they're competing. I don't think anyone's going to protest.

Unless they penefit from a protest 

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4 minutes ago, RobG said:

The rest of the races, yes.

No, they just lose their remaining races DNC.

This event, the Prada Cup, is the challenger selection series, they're competing. I don't think anyone's going to protest.

So they could effectively cancel the final 2 RR's?

If I was INEOS and LR, I'd want to do the same thing, otherwise they risk the same thing happening to their own boats.

In that case, INEOS and LR would end up in a tie on 6 points.

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12 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

As for your "not competing" argument isn't it more "not completing" the event.  I dont see anything in the rules saying they can't do that.

No, but I bet some sponsorship agreements do...

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Just now, Zeusproject said:

Unless they penefit from a protest 

Protest what? They had to attend preliminary events to qualify for the CSS (Prada Cup). They're in the CSS. If they don't show for a race, they lose it. What else is there?

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1 minute ago, RobG said:

Protest what? They had to attend preliminary events to qualify for the CSS (Prada Cup). They're in the CSS. If they don't show for a race, they lose it. What else is there?

I’m sure there will be a clause that you must start 

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Just thinking ahead right now... looks like it would be somewhat of a miracle if Patriot is back by Friday.

If they do sit out, that leaves INEOS on a minimum 6 points. At that stage, they can't be bested for points by LR, so they'd be top dog, so they may theoretically want to sit it out as well, given the type of damage they may potentially sustain for no good reason.

If that happens LR would also go through tied on 6 points with INEOS.

How is that tie break decided? 

 

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

So they could effectively cancel the final 2 RR's?

Who is "they"? The race authority certainly wont, neither LR or INEOS has the power to cancel them. If INEOS and LR agree to not race any more, then INEOS wins the round robin series, LR is second and AM third.

2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

If I was INEOS and LR, I'd want to do the same thing, otherwise they risk the same thing happening to their own boats.

In that case, INEOS and LR would end up in a tie on 6 points.

So what? The notice of race includes directions for resolving ties (posted above).

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54 minutes ago, RobG said:

Someone mentioned fothering… word of the day.

Yes, too many Hornblower novels and similar stirring adventures for me I'm afraid. Fothering with a sail was a last resort to stay afloat in the middle of the ocean til the carpenters could patch the Hull properly and chain pumps could catch up. No tenders or EPIRBS back then. 

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10 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Just thinking ahead right now... looks like it would be somewhat of a miracle if Patriot is back by Friday.

If they do sit out, that leaves INEOS on a minimum 6 points. At that stage, they can't be bested for points by LR, so they'd be top dog, so they may theoretically want to sit it out as well, given the type of damage they may potentially sustain for no good reason.

If that happens LR would also go through tied on 6 points with INEOS.

How is that tie break decided? 

 

So many other things going on. And your math is wrong... 

 

ineo on 6 if AM doesn’t sail. 
LR on 4 if AM doesn’t sail. 
 

I would assume who beats who last so if LR won both then great. If not it could be over after first race. 

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5 minutes ago, Foiling Optimist said:

Watching this again (in better quality) it is hard to understand how the port bow got damaged. The boat comes down fast but seemingly smoothly. Somehow it has to be to do with the foil.

The port foil may have been ripped backwards a bit like pulling the leg off a Turkey.  Stressing where the foil arm emerges from the hull and forward of it.

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4 minutes ago, Foiling Optimist said:

Watching this again (in better quality) it is hard to understand how the port bow got damaged. The boat comes down fast but seemingly smoothly. Somehow it has to be to do with the foil.

A big shock came from the foil hitting the water, not the hull.

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1 minute ago, Afrayedknot said:

So many other things going on. And your math is wrong... 

 

ineo on 6 if AM doesn’t sail. 
LR on 4 if AM doesn’t sail. 
 

I would assume who beats who left so if LR won both then great. If not it could be over after first race. 

Yes, but thats only if AM doesn't sail. What if they don't sail themselves?

So then does INEOS sit out the RR as well and go through on 6? 

If they do, that would also put LR through on 6 points right (2 from AM, and 2 from INEOS) as they're already on 2 now?

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6 minutes ago, Rainier said:

Sooo, what is this?  Maybe the rudder foil broke off and came flying out?

 

 

 

AM Crash.JPG

That's a bird - in replay it can be seen zooming about

Intact rudder foil is visible when the boat is on its side 

 

Amazing and concerning scenes... 

That moment at which foil lands back on water at high speed could really have induced quite a bit of torsion around the cant box structure 

Great sportsmanship on display too 

I really hope this is salvageable and fixable... 

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6 minutes ago, Rainier said:

Sooo, what is this?  Maybe the rudder foil broke off and came flying out?

 

 

 

AM Crash.JPG

In the video that's clearly a bird

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14 minutes ago, Foiling Optimist said:

Watching this again (in better quality) it is hard to understand how the port bow got damaged. The boat comes down fast but seemingly smoothly. Somehow it has to be to do with the foil.

And yet for me when I rewatched I also couldn't see any flex or movement on the foil or arm - which I expected to. I think the foil arm linkage must be one of the best engineered parts of the boat. The side of the bow perhaps less so.

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6 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

Something like that floating nearby but thought rudder was mostly steel

When you look at the actual video you can clearly see it's a seagull. The rudder was still intact when the boat was on its side.

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1 minute ago, southseasbill said:

Stuff reporting:"Team New Zealand have just delivered pizzas to the rescue operation"

That's a bit rough considering AM were racing the Italians.... 

Joking - Good stuff. Will be a long night ahead. 

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Sad for AM have had shit luck and maybe some poor decisions but their boat was very fast today. You don't want to see a team lose this thing because of a spate of events. Some may argue it was partly their fault but these machines are bleeding edge IMO

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There'll be plenty of boat-building expertise and materials providers ready and waiting to pitch in and help when asked. Structural repairs can be quickly assessed and co-ordinated: the electronics and control systems might take longer as they may not want outsiders involved, except perhaps neutrals from outside AC community.

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12 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Sad for AM have had shit luck and maybe some poor decisions but their boat was very fast today. You don't want to see a team lose this thing because of a spate of events. Some may argue it was partly their fault but these machines are bleeding edge IMO

Im beginning to think Dean is a Jonah!!

The only sailing luck he has is bad.

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The curve on that chunk looks like the "pod" where the foil arm joins the hull.  Oh that's gonna be hard to fix.  Better call in Alex Thomson and his grinder!

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14 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Onboard feed died mid-crash but you can at least see one of the most intense roundings in history.

Good video.  But what I noticed was Barker asked the question about the rounding midway down.  He wasn't answered then they got distracted discussing where the pressure was.  Then very quickly the mark comes up and the have a rushed discussion about it.  

They should have made the decision much sooner and set themselves up for it.  The last thing Barker says was "I've lost the rudder".

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21 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Onboard feed died mid-crash but you can at least see one of the most intense roundings in history.

2:58:25

Dean: "It's gonna be a hard manoeuvre"

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1 minute ago, bortolo said:

Dean: "It's gonna be a hard manoeuvre"


 

Feel for Dean wasn’t his fault but still the naysayers will try and pin this.

He was hosing Jimmy Spithill at the time.

Tactician needs to be a dedicated position these boats are moving too fast to have your head down at a grinders pedestal and call tactics and miss big puffs

Who didn’t take care of the running back?

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The bit being carried doesn't look flat, either hull/deck join or the front of the foil hinge box.

Just had a thought.... are these foils adjustable in the fore/aft direction, like IMOCA's?

If so, the force of landing that foil could of ripped the mount for the hydraulic ram out of it's housing?

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3 minutes ago, mezaire said:

Just had a thought.... are these foils adjustable in the fore/aft direction, like IMOCA's?

Not permitted in the Class Rules.

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2 minutes ago, Indio said:

Not permitted in the Class Rules.

Ahh ok.

Just seems like a big chunk of hull if it wasn't forced off the boat due to something ripping it off!!

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24 minutes ago, sfigone said:

The curve on that chunk looks like the "pod" where the foil arm joins the hull.  Oh that's gonna be hard to fix.  Better call in Alex Thomson and his grinder!

I agrree, the part with the crease looks like it came from around the foil bearing. Can't be good. Wonder if the foil is still even on there? Either way,  suspect it's over for NYYC. So sad.

 

20210117073833_659701-2.jpeg

Screen_Shot_2021-01-17_at_21_49_03.png

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My belief as to why AM was sinking after the capsize is this...... The leeward runner never got eased and was highly loaded, the main was pinned against it, then after its first leap and crash, the load on the forestay was so immense that it collapsed/pulled out the forestay bulkhead/attachment inside the hull, that would explain the structure we saw floating in the water and the piece the crew brought ashore later. You could also see carbon unis pulled off the bow area near the deck level......
 
This is a lot better than if they had ripped out the canting foil arm attachment from the hull, which was my first fear for them....... Good news is that they can fix this and be sailing again by the 29th Jan. If it's the foil arm, then its game over....... Fingers crossed they can fix it....
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4 minutes ago, mezaire said:

Ahh ok.

Just seems like a big chunk of hull if it wasn't forced off the boat due to something ripping it off!!

I wonder whether the force of 6.5 tonne crashing down onto the port foil twisted the arm drum mounting enough to take out the piece being carried by the guy in the photo. I think the entire foil arm mechanism is installed in a drop-in frame - it's conceivable that the force might have ripped the frame mounting causing a hole in the hull.