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Having a race like that is why the committee was correct in postponing the race so many times. I think that the race was worth the wait.  Cheers to the Race Committee!

Semi Final Race 1 book is open - hit like for an AM win, dislike for LRPP.  Don’t sit on the fence now!

Funny when I click on the cup site I get this:

Posted Images

21 minutes ago, Latadjust said:

Tape delay till 930 Pacific 

Thanks. Just figured it out but it sucks. Last one was live.

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I think Barker has lost confidence in the boat just as he did (quite rightly so) in 2003.

Something aint right. I figured they would have this sorted by now, but not so.

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3 minutes ago, Mr Moab said:

AM's leeward foil seems to spend more time piercing the surface. Does not seem fast or stable. 

I looks like the foil arm is bouncing around a lot... And the wipe out as I type this. 

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Defintive lesson for AM..

  • Sail selection... WTF with the "Bat WIng"??? out of control
  • get in sync with the shifts.... that last upwind \FML.... can hear Harald Bennett warming up in my ears
  • Just how critical the balance of sail's / FCS......
  • Sorry for this last one - AM has after-guard problems..... seriously
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2 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

Only 3 minute difference! That is hardly a blink in geologic time. Its not over!

It’s still less than the gap that NZ pulled on Prada in the Xmas cup when they first raced. 

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2 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

Only 3 minute difference! That is hardly a blink in geologic time. Its not over!

It is, if AM can't summon up a miracle in a hurry.

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16 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

That little rudder may not be the best design call in hindsight for AM. 

Is it just me or is AM the only boat where the wheel shakes when Dean puts pressure on it?  If you look at his hands, it's like he has the shakes. Could cavitation or some other factor be causing that?  Haven't seen that on any of the other boats.

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34 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Luna Rossa have gotten better no doubt. They look fast and good everywhere. They will be a handful for Ineos in the Final...!

 

^^^THIS!

LR smooth & powerful almost everywhere, & killer VMG monsters, HTF do you beat that?

 

 

 

 

 

on a side note I did switch to Kentucky bourbon (goes better with the fireballs)

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5 minutes ago, GeeJay said:

Is it just me or is AM the only boat where the wheel shakes when Dean puts pressure on it?  If you look at his hands, it's like he has the shakes. Could cavitation or some other factor be causing that?  Haven't seen that on any of the other boats.

That has been consistent, not new since the capsize. Looks pretty painful

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Bent rudder - damn that could be a major issue. If it's off just by half a millimeter it could screw up everything. Even if its shape is restored perfectly, it may now be bending differently under load.

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As it should be. The professionalism of Luna Rossa was on full display today. Credit where its due. Luna Rossa answered their critics today - emphatically.

Enough of this stuff about AM "learning their boat" and "working out the Gremlins" and "emotions of 12 days ago". Those guys are highly paid professionals. They've been sailing Patriot since November, almost 4 months. They are supposed to be able to handle the pressure of unexpected situations. This is the semi finals. The knock out round. Its do or die. You can't be still working out the issues in the knock out rounds. You have to be getting the best out of your boat.

They haven't won a race yet. They have no wins and no points, and by the looks of it, no idea.

Its time to ask and answer the hard questions and come out firing.

They have to win race 1 tomorrow or it becomes a near impossible task.

I'm picking 4-0 tomorrow. As it should be.

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Lighter

3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

As it should be. The professionalism of Luna Rossa was on full display today. Credit where its due. Luna Rossa answered their critics today - emphatically.

Enough of this stuff about AM "learning their boat" and "working out the Gremlins" and "emotions of 12 days ago". Those guys are highly paid professionals. They've been sailing Patriot since November, almost 4 months. They are supposed to be able to handle the pressure of unexpected situations. This is the semi finals. The knock out round. Its do or die. You can't be still working out the issues in the knock out rounds. You have to be getting the best out of your boat.

They haven't won a race yet. They have no wins and no points, and by the looks of it, no idea.

Its time to ask and answer the hard questions and come out firing.

They have to win race 1 tomorrow or it becomes a near impossible task.

I'm picking 4-0 tomorrow. As it should be.

Lighter breeze, Dean eats his cheerios for breakfast and handles the shaky rudder, I say AM goes 2-0 tomorrow and evens the score. After they put the right fucking sail on.

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Pretty clear that they didn't have the time they needed to figure out the bugs in the repaired boat.  To bad.  Would have much rather seen a competitive race.

But they can be proud they got it back on the water.  I'm sure it's not much consolation though.

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4 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

As it should be. The professionalism of Luna Rossa was on full display today. Credit where its due. Luna Rossa answered their critics today - emphatically.

Enough of this stuff about AM "learning their boat" and "working out the Gremlins" and "emotions of 12 days ago". Those guys are highly paid professionals. They've been sailing Patriot since November, almost 4 months. They are supposed to be able to handle the pressure of unexpected situations. This is the semi finals. The knock out round. Its do or die. You can't be still working out the issues in the knock out rounds. You have to be getting the best out of your boat.

They haven't won a race yet. They have no wins and no points, and by the looks of it, no idea.

Its time to ask and answer the hard questions and come out firing.

They have to win race 1 tomorrow or it becomes a near impossible task.

I'm picking 4-0 tomorrow. As it should be.

God you're an idiot.

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It's clear AM had some issues. That was  not the performance they had before the accident. I sincerely hope they can sort it out for tomorrow. Good overall performance by LR with a big scary moment when they almost lost control in a 25 kt gust. Good night, I return to my bed.

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2 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

I think the final between the original owners of the One Hundred Pound Cup (RYA) and the club which took it off them (NYYC) would not only be cool but the most likely outcome.

If Deano can stay penalty free in the pre-start I think Patriot will have the legs on Luna Rossa.

Plus if the wind is anything like forecast the American boat has the edge.

Just my penny's worth 

WEll looks like i got that one wrong - haha!

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3 minutes ago, strider470 said:

It's clear AM had some issues. That was  not the performance they had before the accident. I sincerely hope hope they can sort it out for tomorrow. Good overall performance by LR with a big scary moment when they almost lost control in a 25 kt gust. Good night, I return to my bed.

Sleep well!

 

 

 

 

Little early for me (it's just about ten past 20:00 here).

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Some good driving from Jimmy at that bottom mark.

Big power slide, kept the pedal to the metal, bit of reverse lock, and away they went. Impressive.

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Whats shaking that wheel if its not Deano is it mechanically connected to the quadrant sure been like that for quite some time not a particularly good look and now add a bent stock to the equation crikey not exactly what one would expect for $200 mil. 

Hah the consolation for Deano is that telegraph pole ain't going to break.

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It’s not looking good for the Yankee Doodles, it was weather conditions that should of been in their favour. The weather forecast tomorrow is for light winds. This will be even in more favour of the handbags. 
 

However it’s not over yet. Take down that stupid Mainsail and the boat could be a different creature. Also if there’s something wrong with the steering that could explain a lot. All hope is not lost...just most 

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5 minutes ago, Mad Mac said:

Some good driving from Jimmy at that bottom mark.

Big power slide, kept the pedal to the metal, bit of reverse lock, and away they went. Impressive.

Handbags nailed both starts bang on the button bye bye Deano. 

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AM had exactly the same problem they have had in the round robin.

They bear away and for some reason they can't turn downwind quick enough.  Teamwork?  Indecision on the helmsman's part? Not enough hydraulic power?  Lack of main control?  All of the above?

Noticeable they went into these two races with a lot less sail area than LR.  So even without the manoeuvre issues they were under powered.

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21 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

God you're an idiot.

Why? Because I don’t buy into the emotional crap? It’s knock out time. Do or die. Leave your emotion at the door or go home. Move on from the damn capsize. It was 2 weeks ago! 

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2 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Some of what he said was true 

I'll give ya that Prada showed up to race, and did so nearly flawlessly.

The rest? Just another pile of his usual shit.

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48 minutes ago, NSP said:

Kenny never misses the opportunity to get a subtle Quantum dig in :D

He has a fair point though, that main looks shithouse. Dont think Quantum will be the new sail maker of choice after they are first out 

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8 minutes ago, Liquid Assett NZ said:

He has a fair point though, that main looks shithouse. Dont think Quantum will be the new sail maker of choice after they are first out 

You think so?

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7 minutes ago, Liquid Assett NZ said:

He has a fair point though, that main looks shithouse. Dont think Quantum will be the new sail maker of choice after they are first out 

It may not have been Quantum's choice?

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8 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

I'll give ya that Prada showed up to race, and did so nearly flawlessly.

The rest? Just another pile of his usual shit.

Blah blah. Like I said, 8 races, 8 losses, no wins and no idea. There is no second.

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12 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

I'll give ya that Prada showed up to race, and did so nearly flawlessly.

The rest? Just another pile of his usual shit.

Am hasn’t won a race yet in the Prada cup ....yes that’s true

They need to race one tomorrow or it’s nearly impossible....that’s also true

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Rudder vibration and cavitation looked like a problem for AM all the way around - maybe part of why DB is not engaging in pre start.

also - GA did an interview on Ronstan website last year talking about A cats, but he drifts into AC 75’s to say 50 knots is like the sound barrier for rudders - monohull or cats - rudders lose their grip- we saw that a bunch of time today for AM and once for LR - beam reaching in a turn and they accelerate to 50 then crash.

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

Hardly. Remember AC33? Two races, neither boat raced before or after the Match.

DoG aside... :-)

These teams expected World Series events in multiple locations, multiple regattas in Auckland...

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1 minute ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Bad show for AM but let's remember that 2 weeks ago their boat was under water.

Really? You wanna remember something that happened 2 weeks ago? One Australia’s boat sunk in San Diego, yet they came out, made the best of the situation and made the final and to this day are the only boat and team to beat the mighty Black Magic in 95. Two weeks ago is two weeks ago. Forget about it. Move on. 

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54 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

As it should be.

Enough of this stuff about AM "learning their boat" and "working out the Gremlins" and "emotions of 12 days ago". Those guys are highly paid professionals. They've been sailing Patriot since November, almost 4 months. They are supposed to be able to handle the pressure of unexpected situations. This is the semi finals. The knock out round.

I'm picking 4-0 tomorrow. As it should be.

You are,......... as it should be,............ Forouridiot.

AM boat was sinking 2 weeks ago, and you don't know shit what happens next races, as it should be.

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1 hour ago, mako23 said:

Or shaking boots 

Not trying to bag Deano but he looks even less comfortable than usual. Shoulders hunched.  Death grip on wheel. Mayhap that boat a beast to handle.

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1 minute ago, Tornado-Cat said:

You are,......... as it should be,............ Forouridiot.

AM boat was underwater 2 weeks ago, and you don't know shit what happens next races, as it should be.

Dunno Four has been banging on for quite a while about Amway being crap and spooky as it may seem to date he has been on the money show some respect.

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Just now, Tornado-Cat said:

You are,......... as it should be,............ Forouridiot.

AM boat was sinking 2 weeks ago, and you don't know shit what happens next races, as it should be.

I’ve been right from the start. You’ve been wrong since the start. 

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AM's biggest issue may be the rudder. It was damaged/bent in the capsize and is (apparently) smaller than the other boats. The two major issues they had today could be put down to rudder ventilation leading to loss of precise steering.

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

I’ve been right from the start. You’ve been wrong since the start. 

Except that prior to the capsize they were showing a pretty clean pair of heels to LR, which has shown it's pretty close to the equal of INEOS even if down 4-0. So the boat has potential, they've just got to get back to sailing it properly.

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4 minutes ago, RobG said:

AM's biggest issue may be the rudder. It was damaged/bent in the capsize and is (apparently) smaller than the other boats. The two major issues they had today could be put down to rudder ventilation leading to loss of precise steering.

Did they forget or not bother to fix that rudder over the last 2 weeks?

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5 minutes ago, RobG said:

AM's biggest issue may be the rudder. It was damaged/bent in the capsize and is (apparently) smaller than the other boats. The two major issues they had today could be put down to rudder ventilation leading to loss of precise steering.

Can they replace the rudder if it has been damaged ?

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1 hour ago, Salty Seacock said:
10 hours ago, Salty Seacock said:

GMT + 13 hours is New Zealand time. 

Winds and forecasting for SE winds in Auckland should never be trusted. 

It'll be 15 to 20 knots SW Fri. 15 to 20 SE Sat 10 to 14 East or SE Sun. 

There may be some interesting cross swell on course C and wind against tide chop on Fri but much less Sat and Sun. The best racing based on forecast will be Sat. 

AM will win Fri and Sat but lose Sun. 

Ok. I'll take mustard and salt with my hat!

  Gracious concession.

At this rate it will be over before Sunday. That's unless lack of wind postpones the pain.

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American Tragic..! Jimmy owns Deano too.! If Dean Barker keeps this up I think this will be his last AC job sadly. They will need to do an Ineos turnaround over night  Their boat looked completely wrong today too. Rudder,  Mainsail, Foils all not working too. So boring to see one boat win by 3 KM''s..! I believe Luna Rossa vs Ineos will be close racing though so we may have to wait for that? If ETNZ are as good as everyone says the Prada Cup Final maybe the last of the close racing? Hope I'm wrong......

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

I don't know He seems to crawl around the stern with great dexterity.... (sarcasm)

The next thing he will be gripping is a zimmer  frame 

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- AM magic foil arm was flexing a lot. I did see it in LR a bit but not near as much

- AM foil seemed to rise closer to the surface a lot

- LR foil tips were cavitating ( pressure is less near the surface so easier to cavitate ?)

- My wife "I want to give Dean Barker a massage. He looks so tense his arms may fall off"

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They're allowed 4 rudders. Replacement and repair does not require permission but must be same dimensions. Build tolerance is only 3mm so a minor bend could brick it. 

I thought the old foil arm and FCS looked floppy on AM. 

Fucking hard to drive anything at 53 knots I think if not in perfect equilibrium. 

The bat wing looks to be a poor man's solution to depowering the upper rig, witness ETNZ inverting the top 1/3 yesterday. 

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Not that it’s the biggest difference but I’ve heard the helix structure used in the mains on the North boats is a significant advantage.  Far better control of the luff of the sail, more shape for more power, and less stretch for more consistent shape.  Guesses are that the sails on AM are 8-12% heavier than the other 3 boats.  AM tried to get North to give them blanks and do the finishing themselves and rebrand them, but North declined.  It’s a legit technology.  

Still, there’s other issues with that boat that are bigger than that right now.  But they know they’re at a deficit on the sails.  Both main and jib.

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Why? Because I don’t buy into the emotional crap? It’s knock out time. Do or die. Leave your emotion at the door or go home. Move on from the damn capsize. It was 2 weeks ago! 

Would you have moved on from such a serious incident quite s quickly?

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The only hope they have at this stage is that they measured in their light wind package given the weekend forecast and were completely outside the comfort range today.  If that's not the case then this thing is done in 4.

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5 minutes ago, Thistle3841 said:

Not that it’s the biggest difference but I’ve heard the helix structure used in the mains on the North boats is a significant advantage.  Far better control of the luff of the sail, more shape for more power, and less stretch for more consistent shape.  Guesses are that the sails on AM are 8-12% heavier than the other 3 boats.  AM tried to get North to give them blanks and do the finishing themselves and rebrand them, but North declined.  It’s a legit technology.  

Still, there’s other issues with that boat that are bigger than that right now.  But they know they’re at a deficit on the sails.  Both main and jib.

I believe AMs sail membranes are built at Doyle's in Akld then branded as Quantum. Because of DeVos Amway connection. Dont think they are quite up there with the 3DI helix luff stuff yet still an old school string sail laminate

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17 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

The bat wing looks to be a poor man's solution to depowering the upper rig, witness ETNZ inverting the top 1/3 yesterday. 

Haven't seen anyone actually race with an inverted top.

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23 minutes ago, Zonker said:

- AM magic foil arm was flexing a lot. I did see it in LR a bit but not near as much

There was one camera angle where this seemed quite pronounced. Don't know if it was an optical illusion.

23 minutes ago, Zonker said:

- AM foil seemed to rise closer to the surface a lot

ETNZ sail that way too though (if you mean the tips rising up via canting)

Re Quantum, Norths etc - they don't design the things do they? Just manufacture.

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19 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

They're allowed 4 rudders. Replacement and repair does not require permission but must be same dimensions. Build tolerance is only 3mm so a minor bend could brick it. 

I thought the old foil arm and FCS looked floppy on AM. 

Fucking hard to drive anything at 53 knots I think if not in perfect equilibrium. 

The bat wing looks to be a poor man's solution to depowering the upper rig, witness ETNZ inverting the top 1/3 yesterday. 

Maybe it is something in the North design software. I noticed when I first got 3DLs for my little quarter tonner. If I banged on the runners with a ittle off on the checks introducing a bit extra pre-bend then banged on the topmast backstay i could get the top 1/4-1/3 of the main to do exactly that (invert) binging the CofE down dramatically, meaning reefing upwind could be avoided. It was a real wow moment !

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1 hour ago, Liquid Assett NZ said:

I'm not convinced the bat wing is a good sail, surely we would have seen it done by others if it was a good idea Pradas sail plan looked good IMO 

Attempt to address exess wether helm? Ballants problem?

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1 hour ago, Liquid Assett NZ said:

I'm not convinced the bat wing is a good sail, surely we would have seen it done by others if it was a good idea Pradas sail plan looked good IMO 

It looks like a takeoff on a windsurfer sail design idea from years ago- called speed notch or something ?  I’ll look and see if I can find a pic.  Anyway, the design was out for a few years and disappeared. Maybe it needs a wishboom?  :lol:

50k really is playing with cavitation, it looks like, although the Brits seemed to pull it off smoothly.  
 

edit- anyway, maybe they got the sailplan backwards?  I can’t find the exact sail.  Maybe later when I’ve got hours to look.  Sleepy now....

 

5579F3B3-F4CC-4B24-A23B-FE10C4CCB193.jpeg

6DF73F6A-4A57-4A03-9391-990E03D59639.jpeg

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Terry Hutch says Main is not the problem. Well something surely is? And surely more than one thing is the problem? Hutch didn't want to talk about the foil tips either. So lots of questions for Hutch he doesn't want to answer. So let's see what they come up with for tomorrow?

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