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Having a race like that is why the committee was correct in postponing the race so many times. I think that the race was worth the wait.  Cheers to the Race Committee!

Semi Final Race 1 book is open - hit like for an AM win, dislike for LRPP.  Don’t sit on the fence now!

Please just stick to the facts and not your opinion.  You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how this all works.  The flu is down because of all the hand washing, social distancing, mask wearing,

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Well, this was bad. I wish we had more racing. AM was interesting, because they chose a different design path from the other boats. They  went all in on low drag, high maximum speed, but limited adjustments and maneuverability. Performing so well in the ACWS was probably bad for the team. When they came back, it was obvious they improved much less than others. Then, they literally blew up their program while leading a completely meaningless race by 600m. 

On the other hand, LR was always suspicious to me. They seemed unreasonably slow considering they had a beautiful design package and sailed the boat well. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided from the very beginning to hold back development and aim for sailing in the semi finals for more race practice.

BTW, who's responsible for organizing the Prada Cup? Was it LR / Prada or ETNZ or both? This messed up schedule was really bad for the viewers and very good for ETNZ.

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42 minutes ago, Rapture_29.5 said:

Well, Goodison is a Gold medalist and a Moth world champion. So if he's not a racer, I don't know who is. He was recommending a jibe.

Goody was providing information. DB had to make the decision within a couple of seconds - riskier and faster, or safer but potentially letting your opponent back into the race. They made the tack OK. Then they got hit with a gust, and probably didn't have sufficient speed back in the bear away, after a slight slowdown after the tack splash.

The colour of safe is not gold.

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Like I said months ago, an INEOS v LR Prada Cup final.

I also called 4 nil LR and thats how it ended up. 

Its one thing to turn up early and look fast while no one else is around, its a completely different situation to do it when you have teams turn up that have been around the block a few times.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

Wow how fucking final is that. AM gone. Feels like I lost a pet or something after these last few years...

Amazing that the value of that boat is probably zero now and will be a lawn ornament outside some club now. 

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Just now, .......................... said:

Did you watch the 49er Olympic medal race in China? (joke)

'Fraid not, so that went over my head...

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22 minutes ago, .......................... said:

 

But more like a gold fish, since it was only around for about 4 weeks (of racing)....

A frog, spends time both above and below the surface?

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41 minutes ago, Varan said:

S+S, here you go.

Broke & Stripes wouldn't have enough money for that and you will need to wait to see if NZ retains the cup and stays with the AC75?

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2 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Broke & Stripes wouldn't have enough money for that and you will need to wait to see if NZ retains the cup and stays with the AC75?

I’ve heard a rumour that the handbags also dont like the AC75

As for the POMS who knows what they want, I suspect they have done a deal with ETNZ 

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22 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Like I said months ago, an INEOS v LR Prada Cup final.

I also called 4 nil LR and thats how it ended up. 

Its one thing to turn up early and look fast while no one else is around, its a completely different situation to do it when you have teams turn up that have been around the block a few times.

 

 

 

Yeah for sure but one could argue America have been around the block before that's why it's called the "Americas Cup" . Luna Rossa been around the block plenty and Ineos last time around but with Simmer etc who has been around the block and won too. We don't have long before so many questions are answered such as who is faster Ineos or Luna Rossa? And is the winner fast enough to go with ETNZ? 

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The Kiwis will have had 6 to 9 months more development time with the AC75 when they come to race. There will be less pressure on Burling to win the start too. They will be very fast and so will always be in the race. So we focus on Luna Rossa & Ineos for now but hell beating the Kiwis is going to be just as hard as it was for American Magic to comeback from the capsize.

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7 minutes ago, mako23 said:

I’ve heard a rumour that the handbags also dont like the AC75

As for the POMS who knows what they want, I suspect they have done a deal with ETNZ 

Max has already publicly said he'll go with the AC75 (albeit an upgraded version) if they win.

 

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4 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Max has already publicly said he'll go with the AC75 (albeit an upgraded version) if they win.

 

Ok that puts a different angle to things .....I really don’t want to go back to lead mines. 

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32 minutes ago, mako23 said:

I’ve heard a rumour that the handbags also dont like the AC75

As for the POMS who knows what they want, I suspect they have done a deal with ETNZ 

Rumour true, no deal 

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5 minutes ago, WakaNZ said:

Rumour true, no deal  

Waka - it is in print Mr Prada want's back to the lead mines, as far as any deal done, you can guarantee all 3 challengers have had initial conversations with ETNZ under NOFOR level confidentiality about exploring the basis for "what if".... Believe me the A.C. has more behind the scenes shenannigins than a John Le Carre novel....

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2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Congratulations, LRPP. 

Unfortunately, utter failure from American Magic. Zero wins in the competition.

But, thanks to TH, DB and team for mounting your challenge. Hope to see you again in 4 years.

I think that's it for Deano.

Whether the overall result was Deanos fault is irrelevant now I think.

After a while, the stench of failure just won't wash off.

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Congratulations to LR-PP for a very professional performance today. It was merciless, and it was ultimately too high a quest for a gallant AM to try to make it competitive. A lot of what-ifs and if-onlys for them to review, hopefully with a view to fronting again for AC37 - wherever that may be.

I hope AM stick around for the Match..

 

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6 hours ago, hoom said:

Sure but if the CEO of Norths whose products are on all the other teams is saying it they have to acknowledge that he's not a neutral observer.

ha ha - in a number of the transmissions Ken REad has been introduced as the President of North Sails and the other boats have North roundels on their sails.

What more d you want? A banner constantly running along the bottom of the screen?

Oh! and for the record, yes we have sold a few Norths here in China but when an owner says he wants 3Di's or before that 3DL's or a Provincial team with Olympic hopefuls wants "Japan cut Norths" What else can you give them?  A batwing?

4 hours ago, mako23 said:

If AM lose the next race it would decent if the kiwi’s in this forum don’t kick a man whiles he down 

Well they did lose but it would be really interesting if those who are not worthy to even take his dock lines try and blame him for a - probably faulty connection - on a boat that was not 100%.

Before these semi finals where he was clearly helming an injured boat with the recent memory of a catastrophic capsize in the back of his mind his record against Luna Rossa was something like 12-1 in his favour and in 2007 he took 2 races off the Swiss super boat Alinghi and one of his defeats was by a massive 1 second.

In the previous Cup, the need for a large blue bucket, a hula that didn't really work and a mast falling down about his ears were, I am sure, somewhat of a contributing factor.

And I didn't know we had emotionless super heroes on this forum who reckon they would be able to blank an incident like the capsize and then continue as if nothing had happened.

Some of you would probably shit yourselves just being on the boat.

It is s easy to kick someone as an armchair admiral or keyboard commander, the mark of a coward really.

And Kiwis, remember he isn't Russell who walked away, ETNZ didn't want him in the role he felt suited to and pushed him away. 

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2 hours ago, Forourselves said:
2 hours ago, mako23 said:

I’ve heard a rumour that the handbags also dont like the AC75

As for the POMS who knows what they want, I suspect they have done a deal with ETNZ 

Max has already publicly said he'll go with the AC75 (albeit an upgraded version) if they win.

What's more Bertelli professed his admiration for the class in his long video presentation at the opening of the Prada Cup competition.  Big change of tune from his earlier professed disdain the the boats.

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3 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

Goody was providing information. DB had to make the decision within a couple of seconds - riskier and faster, or safer but potentially letting your opponent back into the race. They made the tack OK. Then they got hit with a gust, and probably didn't have sufficient speed back in the bear away, after a slight slowdown after the tack splash.

The colour of safe is not gold.

Goody's remark, which I'm not going to try and find, was that they'd always be too slow through the power/powered up zone. He knew what was going to happen.

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8 minutes ago, DayTripper said:

Goody's remark, which I'm not going to try and find, was that they'd always be too slow through the power/powered up zone. He knew what was going to happen.

Took 30 secs to find it.  I heard nothing about being "too slow"? 

Goody: "this is gong to be a real hard maneuver to ... bear away. 6 seconds later they are already dropping the board. DB made a racing decision and stuck to it.

 

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11 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Took 30 secs to find it.  I heard nothing about being "too slow"? 

Goody: "this is gong to be a real hard maneuver to ... bear away. 6 seconds later they are already dropping the board. DB made a racing decision and stuck to it

 

Yes.
If you're looking for the "would always be" quote you'll find it in the week 2 clip that AM put out, when they got the quote several hours after the incident.
In the  moment he made a much less definitive statement at the last moment.
(Why AM included the quote in their edit I don't know)

 

 

 

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Q : "What would you take from the ineos boat"

LR " nothing"

Little smirk between the two helms of LR.....just the kind of comment Jimmy avoids making, and grasps hold of when made against his team....very cocky.

Right there they insulted ineos and have them a fresh bag of motivation.

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8 minutes ago, Chris UK said:

Q : "What would you take from the ineos boat"

LR " nothing"

Little smirk between the two helms of LR.....just the kind of comment Jimmy avoids making, and grasps hold of when made against his team....very cocky.

Right there they insulted ineos and have them a fresh bag of motivation.

Where is the insult?

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1 minute ago, Chris UK said:

Post race press conference. Would have been better if they'd insulted their mothers, less motivating.

But the insult is that they don't want to take anything from ineos? I ask to understand because I still have to watch the presser.

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13 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I wouldn't count on any racing today at all.  Doubtful there will be any wind to even train or test within 50km of Auckland.  

Suggest overseas AM supporters to not even bother setting their alarms and have a sleep in instead.

Kateybob  the great wind guru was right in one respect the Amway supporters should have stayed in bed.

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4 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Yeah for sure but one could argue America have been around the block before that's why it's called the "Americas Cup" . Luna Rossa been around the block plenty and Ineos last time around but with Simmer etc who has been around the block and won too. We don't have long before so many questions are answered such as who is faster Ineos or Luna Rossa? And is the winner fast enough to go with ETNZ? 

Actually, it's called the America's Cup after the original winning yacht, not the country 

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28 minutes ago, Chris UK said:

Q : "What would you take from the ineos boat"

LR " nothing"

Little smirk between the two helms of LR.....just the kind of comment Jimmy avoids making, and grasps hold of when made against his team....very cocky.

Right there they insulted ineos and have them a fresh bag of motivation.

PRADA, keeping it classy... 

there won’t be any extra motivation given the 3-0 score line, as Jimmy said in the race, INEOS will want to “keep the foot on their throat”

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5 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

Amazing that the value of that boat is probably zero now and will be a lawn ornament outside some club now. 

Wonder if Stars and Stripes have made an offer yet.

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Jimmy pushing the line throughout the press conference that the 4 races have been great for them, brought them together blah blah blah......hmmmm......4 simplistic races against wounded opposition in which you were never under pressure, except for the conditions, and INEOS were out that day...... If that's the psychological "boost" that they needed then so be it. Certainly after loosing to high class opposition it can be good to find some chumps to beat on and pump the ego back up with.....but doesn't exactly speak to a champions mindset.

First few races of the PRADA finals are going to be critical. If LR get on top they are going to be hard to beat. If INEOS pick up where they left off then LR's boat handling may fall apart ie revert to type...... 

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1 hour ago, Chris UK said:

Q : "What would you take from the ineos boat"

LR " nothing"

Little smirk between the two helms of LR.....just the kind of comment Jimmy avoids making, and grasps hold of when made against his team....very cocky.

Right there they insulted ineos and have them a fresh bag of motivation.

Just watched the presser.

COME ON! Is that an insult??? Let's get real.

I don't think there was any disrespect against the UK team in Francesco's words! Just confidence in their team's work and crew preparation!

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Jimmy has gone from rooster to feather duster before...

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJQqolwI1ydSeRDS4srB9

 

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4 hours ago, thetruth said:

TAB was stupid enough to pay $1.40 on the first race and $1.25 on the second, gotta love the US of fucking A..............

So where's your winnings going in the Prada final? 

I reckon you will be taking the $1.57 on INEOS!

 

Screenshot_20210130-105210_Chrome.jpg

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26 minutes ago, Nutta said:

Jimmy has gone from rooster to feather duster before...

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJQqolwI1ydSeRDS4srB9

 

Agreed. He does a great job of excluding a winners front and his pseudo "poundland" psychological warfare adds some colour.....but for me he has nothing of the record of a Slingsby, Ainslie, Burling, Outteridge....etc. Doesn't mean you cannot be a good sailor without having gone to the Olympics......but he's never won in equal equipment.

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5 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Like I said months ago, an INEOS v LR Prada Cup final.

I also called 4 nil LR and thats how it ended up. 

Its one thing to turn up early and look fast while no one else is around, its a completely different situation to do it when you have teams turn up that have been around the block a few times.

Something perhaps the cocky kiwis should remember. That and how worthless the ACWS is at showing form

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5 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

When your Team principle is giving interviews commenting on INEOS boat in a less than flattering light? 

What do you mean? He said it was a good boat......

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2 hours ago, sosoomii said:

Is this the first time in Cup history that the Brits have got further than the Americans?

After 170 years we finally beat the Americans! Wait what? What do you mean they don't have the America's Cup anymore???? Ahh shyte!

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21 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

What do you mean? He said it was a good boat......

The secret is to say nothing.. 

no need to comment positively/negatively on anyone’s boat. Serves no purpose other than giving people a stick to hit you with take issue with.

ben won’t give a fuck, nor about today’s press conference comments.

gonna be funny watching Jimmy try to get a response that isn’t full of contempt 

 

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Man, today was hard to watch. Full disclosure, I was firmly behind LR and glad to see them finally beginning to realise the promise of their boat and crew.

I did respect AM for getting the boat out on the water, but remain convinced that that teams management was not up to the task of making the right (and tough) decisions, both on and off the water.

But to see the last race ending on a gear failure, just when they seemed to be pretty close to LR and hanging on in there? That was just heartbreaking...

 

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5 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

The secret is to say nothing.. 

That hasn't happened......Ben, Terry, Max, and now Grant , have all made observations about the others boats - in almost all cases complimentary. Not sure why you're getting prickly about Grant saying your boat is good.

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18 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

That hasn't happened......Ben, Terry, Max, and now Grant , have all made observations about the others boats - in almost all cases complimentary. Not sure why you're getting prickly about Grant saying your boat is good.

It was a gentle dig about the ‘mouthy poms’ thing, 

if grants gonna be doing his bit in the media there is no hope for a peaceful build up between supporters. His paise was couched with (it’s a good boat but they are sailing it really well,  but it’s not a great boat. )  no one had actually suggested it was a great boat. 

the quickest way to remove any good will that there was to INEOS around the Xmas cup was to start winning, happy that normal service is starting to resume, need Magnus to do his bit soon ;-)  

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

On the subject of mouthy.. When your Team principle is giving interviews commenting on INEOS boat in a less than flattering light? 

Your saying the team principal is unprincipled? 

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6 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Your saying the team principal is unprincipled? 

I wouldn’t be alone in suggesting that he might not be as pure as the driven snow. None of us are ;-)

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13 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

if grants gonna be doing his bit in the media there is no hope for a peaceful build up between supporters.

GD is pretty careful in what he says, and he hasn't said much. As for the supporters, I expect things will ratchet up a notch or two as we get closer to the match, and whomever emerges as challenger, will rightfully feel pretty confident. If it is Ineos, I'm sure their supporters in here will keep telling us how brilliant Ben/Giles are, as we've heard throughout the PC.

My own thoughts on the PC final....I think it's going to be a pretty even contest. LR may have a slightly quicker boat, but that's probably offset by the better sailing from B&G.

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The Prada cup has so far mostly not given us exciting competition.

That's just the risk of holding a regatta in a very high performance class that is still at such an early point in its development trajectory.

Hopefully the final between INEOS and LR will be closer - not only in the outcome, but also in each race.

 

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4 minutes ago, us7070 said:

The Prada cup has so far mostly not given us exciting competition.

That's just the risk of holding a regatta in a very high performance class that is still at such an early point in its development trajectory.

Hopefully the final between INEOS and LR will be closer - not only in the outcome, but also in each race.

 

I think the round robin offered some very exciting races. The race with 9 lead changes was compelling.

I agree the semi final was a walk over for the Italians.  AM was a damaged boat with a team that did not have anything special.

LR vs Ineos might be exciting.

The trade off is that if the Prada cup final is exciting, the final Cup itself may be a bit boring.

Here is my logic.

  • I think we saw in the round robin, that the team and afterguard talent in Ineos was exceptional. That is how they won every race.
  • I think ETNZ also has exceptional after guard talent and a fast boat.  In order to be a close AC match, the final challenger has to bring both talent and a fast boat.

Fans that are hoping/expecting a close battle in the Prada Cup base that hope on

1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

My own thoughts on the PC final....I think it's going to be a pretty even contest. LR may have a slightly quicker boat, but that's probably offset by the better sailing from B&G. 

  • LR believe they have significantly improved boat speed from round robin and  a battle between a slightly faster boat vs a slightly more talented afterguard could be epic.  But ultimately it is a battle between compromise where the winner goes up vs NZ who believe they have both speed and afterguard.
  • If LR has a fast boat but slightly inferior sailing team, they wont be a match for ETNZ.  If Ineos has a terrific helm/tactician combination but a slightly inferior boat, they wont be a match for ETNZ.
  • If Ineos has matched or exceeded the improvements that LR has made to boat speed then they will be a very serious threat to ETNZ. But at the same time they will probably clean up in the Prada Cup.

 

The outcome I would like to see is that Ineos and LR have both made big gains to boat speed such that boat speed is very close with neither side having an enduring advantage.  The final will have lots of lead changes and races won by both sides but the series ultimately won by Ineos, who honed by 10 -12 close races bring something to the AC that you get from racing which no amount of practice can provide....such that we have an amazingly competitive AC.

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This will hurt for American Magic.
I still maintain that their communication style caused the capsize, and the capsize denied them of the chance to show the true potential of that boat. 
In reality, they were never racing in these semis, clear from when they meekly followed LR off the first start.

However, whilst that capsize ultimately lost them this campaign, it could be the catalyst for future successful challenges. If a team can put a boat back together in a week, then what else can they achieve? Very few first time challenges succeed, but many don't even demonstrate nearly as much tenacity as AM.

Obviously, Dean's days as a helm are over. And I don't think we'll see a same committee of decision making from blindsided positions in the future. 

I heard a lot of praise for LR improved communication, but friendly coms is easy when the other boat isn't in the race. But the one instance where they had a tight lee bow tack, the same communication issues arose.  It could be solved with one button! 

Anyway, I am really looking forward to LR v INEOS. 

 

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12 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

I think ETNZ also has exceptional after guard talent and a fast boat.  In order to be a close AC match, the final challenger has to bring both talent and a fast boat.

Yes, exceptional, but not really in actual match racing

I said in one of the threads that I think the last thing ETNZ wants is for the AC to turn into a match race, and I still feel this way.

In even boats, Ben and Giles would win every start...

 

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12 minutes ago, us7070 said:

Yes, exceptional, but not really in actual match racing

I said in one of the threads that I think the last thing ETNZ wants is for the AC to turn into a match race, and I still feel this way.

In even boats, Ben and Giles would win every start...

 

This, despite being humiliated for lack of a better term in the semis by ETNZ, Ben Ainslie still managed to win a majority of his starts against Pete who was in a boat that miles better. Pete is by no means bad, and is still abso-fucking-lutely world class but Ben and Giles are simply better right now. Let's hope they can bring a fast boat. 

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6 hours ago, strider470 said:

Where is the insult?

 

6 hours ago, Chris UK said:

Post race press conference. Would have been better if they'd insulted their mothers, less motivating.

 

I believe the SA term for that is “snowflake”

 

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6 hours ago, Chris UK said:

Q : "What would you take from the ineos boat"

LR " nothing"

Little smirk between the two helms of LR.....just the kind of comment Jimmy avoids making, and grasps hold of when made against his team....very cocky.

Right there they insulted ineos and have them a fresh bag of motivation.

If you think that's an insult, you probably haven't been properly insulted before.

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7 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

If you think that's an insult, you probably haven't been properly insulted before.

 

:lol: :lol: Too true! Wait until he goes to Mexico and someone menta su madre ... :lol::lol:

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11 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Like I said months ago, an INEOS v LR Prada Cup final.

I also called 4 nil LR and thats how it ended up. 

Its one thing to turn up early and look fast while no one else is around, its a completely different situation to do it when you have teams turn up that have been around the block a few times.

 

 

 

Your prediction for the Prada final?

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It is sad for the interest following the Prada cup to have a boat who has a speed advantage to LR crash and lose his competitivity later, the end of the selection would have been more interesting.

Any way, let's see LR against Ineos now. If Dean is a nice guy, Jimmy and Ben are "killers" and it will show on the water, for the best.

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1 hour ago, Mozzy Sails said:

This will hurt for American Magic.
I still maintain that their communication style caused the capsize, and the capsize denied them of the chance to show the true potential of that boat. 
In reality, they were never racing in these semis, clear from when they meekly followed LR off the first start.

However, whilst that capsize ultimately lost them this campaign, it could be the catalyst for future successful challenges. If a team can put a boat back together in a week, then what else can they achieve? Very few first time challenges succeed, but many don't even demonstrate nearly as much tenacity as AM.

Obviously, Dean's days as a helm are over. And I don't think we'll see a same committee of decision making from blindsided positions in the future. 

I heard a lot of praise for LR improved communication, but friendly coms is easy when the other boat isn't in the race. But the one instance where they had a tight lee bow tack, the same communication issues arose.  It could be solved with one button! 

Anyway, I am really looking forward to LR v INEOS. 

 

Comments:

1.  mozzy sails analysis really good.

2. I agree that AM was on the verge of a very competitive challenge and I hope they come back. The score card prior to the capsize exaggerated a couple of small decisions made early on primarily about roles on the boat .Post capsize they were simply not competitive.

3. I agree, no way that LR is 10% faster.   Nor do we know whether AM repaired is a good bench mark

4. Yes LR did look smooth...but it is easy to look smooth when you are so comfortably ahead with no pressure. Mozzy pointed out a couple of latent delays in the LR communication protocol by highlighting board drop is momentarily late. (as Mozzy did in a prior analysis of Ineos vs LR). Mozzy would suggest solving by redistributing some of the controls (allowing Jimmy to drop foil).  Im still unconvinced by the dual helm set up and wonder if this is a symptom of that. With dedicated helm and tactician (Ineos), I postulate that the timing of the audible by tactician would be refined and practiced till perfect . Ben and Giles have got it right, their tack protocols work well. I feel that Jimmy who is part driver and part tactician, my have  6th sense calling for board drop with the timing of a driver vs tactician . So a dedicated tactician might call it a second earlier where Jimmy as a driver is calling it as if he was driving and cold leave drop until his virtual finger ready to hit the button. Anyway shifting from driver to tactician and back all the time, affects timing. Bottom line....I remain unconvinced by the dual driver layout.  I dont think a button or two solves it.

 

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Did anyone else notice in the last race on the final leg, LR dropped two boards down to slow up, to let AM cross in front - they were still on the upwind leg, and LR was half way down the final run.

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13 hours ago, porthos said:

What a stupid fucking question by that idiot: "How do you feel?"  How do you think he feels you dumbass?

Steve McIvor. Absolute moron. He's a league commentator hack from TV3 taking on all the Americanisms such as 4 and Oh(0). Him and Iva Ropati should have been sent to Australia. 

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2 hours ago, us7070 said:

Yes, exceptional, but not really in actual match racing

I said in one of the threads that I think the last thing ETNZ wants is for the AC to turn into a match race, and I still feel this way.

In even boats, Ben and Giles would win every start...

 

PB got his ass handed to him all through Bermuda until it mattered. 

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37 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Didn't ask me, but Ineos. Ben is smarter than Jimmy.  

I think the Brit afterguard has proved itself and INEOS is good in the manoeuvres.  They will also be going faster by the Prada final no doubt. I hope INEOS has plenty of edge still.

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3 hours ago, dullers said:

Your prediction for the Prada final?

I think it will be a close match, the boats will be even, and the difference will come down to crew work. In that case, I think Giles and Ben are an unbeatable combination. I think the winds will have lightened off by Feb, and it remains to be seen how competitive INEOS will be with an upgraded LR boat, but I’m picking, purely because of how good Ben and Giles are together, as well as Bens determination to win and access to resource, that INEOS will win. But it will be a close match. 

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8 hours ago, Chris UK said:

Agreed. He does a great job of excluding a winners front and his pseudo "poundland" psychological warfare adds some colour.....but for me he has nothing of the record of a Slingsby, Ainslie, Burling, Outteridge....etc. Doesn't mean you cannot be a good sailor without having gone to the Olympics......but he's never won in equal equipment.

JS comes across as arrogant and his positivity is fake/forced. It's cringeworthy.

The guy obviously has talent, he wouldn't be where he is otherwise, but he might be more effective if he wasn't a... and how do I put this politely... cocky twat.

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16 hours ago, Nutta said:

Yeah, because FCS issue is all on Barker. Wanker.

Something happened there.  I wonder if non disclosure agreements are in play...  hope not.

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15 hours ago, mako23 said:

Ok that puts a different angle to things .....I really don’t want to go back to lead mines. 

I thought there was supposed to be enough mass in the foils to self rescue?  Granted, unballasted 75’ foiling monohulls would be insane, but enclosing the crew, strapped in a watertight crash cage might take care of that.  (I’m only half kidding....). I suppose the helm could be standing on deck.  Or the owner.  That would be epic.  Kind of like those Wally pics.  (Is this a Wally?  Close enough, maybe....)

 

6F3A9D86-1818-48AE-969F-32632D4B0549.jpeg

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5 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said:

This will hurt for American Magic.
I still maintain that their communication style caused the capsize, and the capsize denied them of the chance to show the true potential of that boat. 
In reality, they were never racing in these semis, clear from when they meekly followed LR off the first start.

However, whilst that capsize ultimately lost them this campaign, it could be the catalyst for future successful challenges. If a team can put a boat back together in a week, then what else can they achieve? Very few first time challenges succeed, but many don't even demonstrate nearly as much tenacity as AM.

Obviously, Dean's days as a helm are over. And I don't think we'll see a same committee of decision making from blindsided positions in the future. 

I heard a lot of praise for LR improved communication, but friendly coms is easy when the other boat isn't in the race. But the one instance where they had a tight lee bow tack, the same communication issues arose.  It could be solved with one button! 

Anyway, I am really looking forward to LR v INEOS. 

 

Best jersey so far @Mozzy Sails!!

5A15514D-D742-4D5E-9A8A-66E28EA1309A.png

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Maybe somebody :rolleyes: will start a campaign calling the results fake, have them tossed aside, and go straight to the finals with the Kiwis.

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17 hours ago, Rapture_29.5 said:

Worst $175 I've ever spent. Not because AM is out but crap man, the Christmas race was cancelled, then a bunch of races got cancelled because of the capsize and then AM gets swept. A lot less racing than there might have been.

Although we’re figuring for the rest of the series (7 races + 7 races) plus what we’ve already watched comes to ~ $4 each (for 2 people = $8), which is better than a lot of really bad movies we’ve rented.....

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

I think it will be a close match, the boats will be even, and the difference will come down to crew work. In that case, I think Giles and Ben are an unbeatable combination. I think the winds will have lightened off by Feb, and it remains to be seen how competitive INEOS will be with an upgraded LR boat, but I’m picking, purely because of how good Ben and Giles are together, as well as Bens determination to win and access to resource, that INEOS will win. But it will be a close match. 

I hope you are right.

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2 minutes ago, dullers said:
1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

I think it will be a close match, the boats will be even, and the difference will come down to crew work. In that case, I think Giles and Ben are an unbeatable combination. I think the winds will have lightened off by Feb, and it remains to be seen how competitive INEOS will be with an upgraded LR boat, but I’m picking, purely because of how good Ben and Giles are together, as well as Bens determination to win and access to resource, that INEOS will win. But it will be a close match. 

I hope you are right.

They have plenty of Ca$h resource that's for sure.  Some closer racing would make it more interesting, that last race was painful to watch with the tech failure's. 

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2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

I think it will be a close match, the boats will be even, and the difference will come down to crew work. In that case, I think Giles and Ben are an unbeatable combination. I think the winds will have lightened off by Feb, and it remains to be seen how competitive INEOS will be with an upgraded LR boat, but I’m picking, purely because of how good Ben and Giles are together, as well as Bens determination to win and access to resource, that INEOS will win. But it will be a close match. 

I like the helm/tactician combo better than the dual helm set up.

Nathan asked Jimmy about the set up. Jimmy's response was 1) They learnt more and progressed faster by each discovering something the other didnt (yeah but thats good for development....now switch to max race mode?)   2) Not crossing the boat (unconvinced)  3) One of them is left handed and one right handed (Seriously?)  4)  They alternate flight control and its created a better flight controller (unconvinced)

I think the dual helm is a compromise and you cannot compromise at this level.

Im hoping boat speed is close and we get each side winning some races . If Ineos have equal or better boat speed, they win the Prada cup and the AC.  If Ineos have close but slightly inferior boat speed then either side can win and then get defeated by ETNZ.

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2 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

I like the helm/tactician combo better than the dual helm set up.

Nathan asked Jimmy about the set up. Jimmy's response was 1) They learnt more and progressed faster by each discovering something the other didnt (yeah but thats good for development....now switch to max race mode?)   2) Not crossing the boat (unconvinced)  3) One of them is left handed and one right handed (Seriously?)  4)  They alternate flight control and its created a better flight controller (unconvinced)

I think the dual helm is a compromise and you cannot compromise at this level.

Im hoping boat speed is close and we get each side winning some races . If Ineos have equal or better boat speed, they win the Prada cup and the AC.  If Ineos have close but slightly inferior boat speed then either side can win and then get defeated by ETNZ.

The flight control thing is probably the biggest advantage, and I think a huge decision that helps Ineos. Ineos has a flight controller per side, I believe the leeward side flight controller is the one in control (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). By reducing their grinder numbers, Ineos were able to do this. Prada can't, which is why going with the dual helm setup makes sense, you can't have your flight controller cross the boat easily, so instead, you get the off duty helmsman to handle flight control. 

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18 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

I like the helm/tactician combo better than the dual helm set up.

Nathan asked Jimmy about the set up. Jimmy's response was 1) They learnt more and progressed faster by each discovering something the other didnt (yeah but thats good for development....now switch to max race mode?)   2) Not crossing the boat (unconvinced)  3) One of them is left handed and one right handed (Seriously?)  4)  They alternate flight control and its created a better flight controller (unconvinced)

I think the dual helm is a compromise and you cannot compromise at this level.

Im hoping boat speed is close and we get each side winning some races . If Ineos have equal or better boat speed, they win the Prada cup and the AC.  If Ineos have close but slightly inferior boat speed then either side can win and then get defeated by ETNZ.

Dean Barker always looked uncomfortable with his cockpit position and the change over process, I don’t think they had a good layout like Ineos, is there any real advantage of having one more crew to windward? The Italians look very comfortable compared to DB.

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