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2 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Which ones ? perhaps you want to coach Ben and Giles ?

Maybe.. I could tell them to change the main  sail design and the hull too.. that was your recommendation. Should be possible overnight? 

mistakes going over early in the first race start? Is that insightful enough? Boundary pens? 

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Having a race like that is why the committee was correct in postponing the race so many times. I think that the race was worth the wait.  Cheers to the Race Committee!

Semi Final Race 1 book is open - hit like for an AM win, dislike for LRPP.  Don’t sit on the fence now!

Please just stick to the facts and not your opinion.  You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how this all works.  The flu is down because of all the hand washing, social distancing, mask wearing,

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9 minutes ago, strider470 said:

It should increase a lot already this week I read.

Depends what forecast service you use. Some service quote in km and you need to convert to knots for  comparison. 
 

I myself are not seeing much difference in forecast compared with today’s wind.

 

As a Pom I’d happily be wrong 

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3 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Maybe.. I could tell them to change the main  sail design and the hull too.. that was your recommendation. Should be possible overnight? 

mistakes going over early in the first race start? Is that insightful enough? Boundary pens? 

So, what are their mistakes ? can you assert and stop asking questions ?

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

spite-nav, aside from posting worthless photos and rules cut & paste, can you post once a year one interesting comment ? :wacko:

WOW. That’s fucken hilarious. 

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29 minutes ago, DayTripper said:

That new bike path looks the bomb. Haven't tried it yet.

Hah looks smooth as in the pic however take your full suspension mountain bike it’s a lumpy ride.
Typical Auckland Transport cock up.

The Parnell Baths have lost a fair chunk of parking and the revised four lane set up is just an accident waiting to happen.

They should have pushed a seaward boardwalk into the harbour side the Pohutukawa trees will forever disrupt the asphalt.

4594852C-6323-45E0-AD73-3A034AFFD4FE.thumb.jpeg.c51cf5f25d32888714383b0ab9fe3711.jpeg

 

 

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3 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

You are bloody special. they were over early in the first start, that was a mistake. 
 

they picked up boundary pens, that was a mistake, 

is that clear enough for  you? 

So you say that they lost the race with that margin because they started the race a few meters down the wind ? seriously ? Any other insight ?

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10 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

You are bloody special. they were over early in the first start, that was a mistake. 
 

they picked up boundary pens, that was a mistake, 

is that clear enough for  you? 

The boundary penalties were not a mistake,  they chose to do that to avoid dropping again. 

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20 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

So you say that they lost the race with that margin because they started the race a few meters down the wind ? seriously ? Any other insight ?

No, you asked for examples of mistakes that were made

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45 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Or use the correct jib, and don’t make any small errors, 

they have sailed 5 perfect races in the lead up, they didn’t today and Prada did. 
 

Plus the universally agreed light air boat was better in light air 

Even in the stronger wind Ineos are too slow upwind. I don't think a better jib will make enough difference.

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The history books will not show "If / Woulda / Should have / could have".......

Both boats have pretty similar FCS speed (Foil down/Up).... Nathan O mentioned that from the Helo there was a noticeable difference in main shape & depth (Handbags had a "fatter / deeper shape) INEOS was with a flatter main...... so did the BRITS get caught with the wrong sail package up? Way above my pay-grade, knowledge and skill, suffice to say 1st to 7, down 2..... as much as my opinion of INEOS has changed (positive),  this may well be INEOS' "Bridge too Far"....

 

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10 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Hmm they were sub optimal I think we can agree? 

It was a measured decision, the fact that they had to make that decision was sub optimal, but I dont see it as a mistake, or a bad call in the circumstances. 

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9 minutes ago, kenergy said:

It was a measured decision, the fact that they had to make that decision was sub optimal, but I dont see it as a mistake, or a bad call in the circumstances. 

They had another boundary penalty on a down wind leg. Unforced error. 

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Getting oneself above the line before the start in the light stuff, 

and having to sail down wind to the line, 

meaning that they could not foil for what seemed like an eternity  . . 

was a big mistake. 

(Of course, I have made even more colossal blunders than that. 

Don't claim to be anywhere near that league) 

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1 hour ago, weta27 said:

I think a lot of thought and effort went into that "luck"!!

Wow, very impressive, who would have expected such a turn-around from when those two teams raced in the RRs?

Ahem. I picked it. Wind too light for INEOS to shine, today. Probably go down again tomorrow too.

Up wind range racing not too far away though. Then we may see a contest.

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51 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Hah looks smooth as in the pic however take your full suspension mountain bike it’s a lumpy ride.
Typical Auckland Transport cock up.

The Parnell Baths have lost a fair chunk of parking and the revised four lane set up is just an accident waiting to happen.

They should have pushed a seaward boardwalk into the harbour side the Pohutukawa trees will forever disrupt the asphalt.

4594852C-6323-45E0-AD73-3A034AFFD4FE.thumb.jpeg.c51cf5f25d32888714383b0ab9fe3711.jpeg

 

 

New Zealand's bike foamers need to go to The Netherlands to see how you actually form a cycle network. What we have here is straight up garbage, an embarrassment and as usual, a dollar and a day late.

Cyclists shouldn't be on the same carriageway as cars at all. They should have their own path to share with e-bikes, small IC and electric scooters and other exposed and wheeled technology. 

The road is for cars and bicyclists should have their own space. If nothing else but, to keep the fuck out of my way. 

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7 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

LR is just a faster boat. The fastest boat wins. Unless the race is in shifty/puffy conditions, LR will race ETNZ for the cup. Game over.

 

Would you like tomato sauce with that hat you're gonna eat?

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Very slick Italian machine today. Zero mistakes. I'm not sure Rita is particularly slower in a decent breeze looking at the post match graphs. But they are not going to win anything if they can't foil down near the wind limits, and can't win a start, and put up the wrong sails. AM were quick but couldn't put it all together either. I wouldn't count them out yet, and gear issues may yet determine the results. I just hope we don't see 7 races of the same follow the leader. 

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I thought the boats would be closer but Race 1 confirmed that Luna Rossa is the best all rounder IMO. Seems fast in all conditions now. Nathan was in the chopper and said Luna Rossa's sails appeared deeper and Ineos flatter. Which doesn't make sense to me as the first race was always going to be lighter and deeper sails usually work better in those conditions. Race 2 well it didn't seem to matter? Whilst 30 odd seconds in Race 2 was reasonably close on the clock Luna Rossa always looked comfortable and still didn't sail their best race. It seemed at times the Italians were 2 knots faster upwind and down although to my eye they their dominance was more upwind. Let's see what Nick the Dick can come up with for Ineos after they look at the data?

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Fact is that they had more speed in light and stronger winds, upwind generally downwind too. I would be interested to see Max graph to check if the were faster in the transitions too.

I think the 26 second margin is not really backing up the idea that they were faster at every moment. Often when one boat is ahead, it does seem like that. And the speeds of these boats make 26 seconds look like a lot because of the distance they can sail in 26 seconds.

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Crikey Einstein I think you have cracked it the advantage lies with the boat in the lead.

There are a bunch of situations when it is not really true. Especially if the boat behind is faster.

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Hah looks smooth as in the pic however take your full suspension mountain bike it’s a lumpy ride.

Bummer. I used to ride on the road as the old path was so uncomfortable. Guess I'll be back there.

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Watching the clear step ahead LR made, I think that AM were not so bad at all, considering they lost 10 days of development before the semifinals and the repaired boat had still some issues.

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Were do you find 2 knots overnight? 16 knots gusting to 21 knots tomorrow. Ben's best chance maybe on course c where it's shifty but you wouldn't want to rely on that? Tomorrow Course E. No doubt Ineos will use different sails tomorrow but it's a predictable scenario so no advantage for either team. By this time tomorrow we'll most likely know who will win the Prada Cup me thinks?

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7 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Were do you find 2 knots overnight? 16 knots gusting to 21 knots tomorrow. Ben's best chance maybe on course c where it's shifty but you wouldn't want to rely on that? Tomorrow Course E. No doubt Ineos will use different sails tomorrow but it's a predictable scenario so no advantage for either team. By this time tomorrow we'll most likely know who will win the Prada Cup me thinks?

7 to 3 Prada’s way to meet the kiwis which will end up at 7 to 2 to the kiwi.    my guess only 

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In race 2 when Ineos ducked, Giles was steering and BA was micro managing... "Not too early! ", "Up up up" etc.    Perhaps having two trusted helms on the boat is a good thing after all.

Forza LR!

I just want to hear JS say one word on italian!

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14 minutes ago, sosoomii said:

Wtf is a “click”? A truly horrible and meaningless expression.

It's a lot more than a bee's dick, but less than a country mile

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5 minutes ago, sfigone said:

In race 2 when Ineos ducked, Giles was steering and BA was micro managing... "Not too early! ", "Up up up" etc.    Perhaps having two trusted helms on the boat is a good thing after all.

Forza LR!

I just want to hear JS say one word on italian!

JS has said that he does know a few words in Italian, just not ones that he could use on TV.

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18 minutes ago, sosoomii said:

Wtf is a “click”? A truly horrible and meaningless expression.

Isn’t it the measure unit of a computer mouse speed?

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15 minutes ago, sfigone said:

In race 2 when Ineos ducked, Giles was steering and BA was micro managing... "Not too early! ", "Up up up" etc.    Perhaps having two trusted helms on the boat is a good thing after all.

Forza LR!

I just want to hear JS say one word on italian!

Quote Ben to Giles "Too early , you can't do that! shakes his head. Giles quote "Copy" 

It's the 1st sign of pressure and perhaps because the Italians go it wrong early in the series they now have it right? But a distinct lack of racing over the last 2 weeks and signs of rust appearing. If Luna Rossa were to win this 7-0 then they will have done stuff all sailing over the Kiwis and now we know they'll be smooth and polished but will they have the boat speed to match the Kiwis? 

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10 minutes ago, strider470 said:
30 minutes ago, sosoomii said:

Wtf is a “click”? A truly horrible and meaningless expression.

Isn’t it the measure unit of a computer mouse speed?

I think a click refers to a touch faster or a knot faster, 1 knot = 1 click. 2 knots = 2 clicks. Or was it used in another scenario? 

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Suggestions it'll be one of the inshore courses tomorrow - course E with some reasonably decent breeze. Should put Ben and the lads back in the game. Hoping the Brits win a few, so we see more racing. 

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fucking boring....

 

The worst AC to date.

Win the start.... 10 tacks and 8 gyves)25 min later race over.

Boats are great but the courses/ format does not test the boats nor crew....

Boring!

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16 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Isn’t it the measure unit of a computer mouse speed?

 

4 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

I think a click refers to a touch faster or a knot faster, 1 knot = 1 click. 2 knots = 2 clicks. Or was it used in another scenario? 

Isn't it the measure of hyper space jumps in Guardians of the Galaxy? 

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32 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Quote Ben to Giles "Too early , you can't do that! shakes his head. Giles quote "Copy" 

It's the 1st sign of pressure and perhaps because the Italians go it wrong early in the series they now have it right? But a distinct lack of racing over the last 2 weeks and signs of rust appearing. If Luna Rossa were to win this 7-0 then they will have done stuff all sailing over the Kiwis and now we know they'll be smooth and polished but will they have the boat speed to match the Kiwis? 

The Kiwis are still on another league. But never say never. And never give anything for Grant(ed)

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25 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

I think a click refers to a touch faster or a knot faster, 1 knot = 1 click. 2 knots = 2 clicks. Or was it used in another scenario? 

Yeah, but what’s wrong with bit, touch, tad, scintilla, slightly, fractionally or marginally?  Or actual numbers. And I swear it was used for distance at one point too “Luna Rossa are a click ahead”. Yuck.

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47 minutes ago, sfigone said:

In race 2 when Ineos ducked, Giles was steering and BA was micro managing... "Not too early! ", "Up up up" etc.    Perhaps having two trusted helms on the boat is a good thing after all.

 

Why was Giles steering?

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42 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

JS has said that he does know a few words in Italian, just not ones that he could use on TV.

I noticed one of the interviewed Italians today had half a NZ/Oz accent in his English. Quite amusing.

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1 minute ago, DayTripper said:

I noticed one of the interviewed Italians today had half a NZ/Oz accent in his English. Quite amusing.

If it was De Felice, he is living in NZ and also has the citizenship I think

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3 hours ago, Salty Seacock said:

New Zealand's bike foamers need to go to The Netherlands to see how you actually form a cycle network. What we have here is straight up garbage, an embarrassment and as usual, a dollar and a day late.

Cyclists shouldn't be on the same carriageway as cars at all. They should have their own path to share with e-bikes, small IC and electric scooters and other exposed and wheeled technology. 

The road is for cars and bicyclists should have their own space. If nothing else but, to keep the fuck out of my way. 

I'm faster than cars most of the time on tamaki drive

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interesting....

10-day forecast storm tracks (both extratropical and tropical) from the GFS and EC ensembles respectively. They both go out to 15 days but they look messy out that far so limited it to 10 days. 

 

image.thumb.png.4613562233651c80164a62ec80b42bab.png

 

image.thumb.png.2c6353d1d6bef1cb561443a0e134888d.png

 

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18 minutes ago, DayTripper said:

Why was Giles steering?

Because he was on the leeward side and could judge how close to cross. Ben said dont bear away to early, but Giles did and gave away around 25 metres,  maybe enough for the next right of way cross 

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16 Knots tomorrow on Course E gusting to 21 Knots. We may see some Eagle Roundings. These are supposedly the perfect Ineos conditions so if they don't win a race we'll know they will be in the shed for 3 days before the 5th race on Wednesday. Speed is one thing but they also need to find the control Luna Rossa seem to have over them? Meanwhile Luna Rossa will be getting better too. Tough gig 

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In the shed? They've measured, stuck with with they got pretty much, how much change can they make?

 

Not like new foils, rudder, hull amendment...

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41 minutes ago, sosoomii said:

Yeah, but what’s wrong with bit, touch, tad, scintilla, slightly, fractionally or marginally?  Or actual numbers. And I swear it was used for distance at one point too “Luna Rossa are a click ahead”. Yuck.

Try K or kilometers or klicks... 

https://www.englishforums.com/English/WhatDoesClicksMeanGuardiansGalaxy/blqnzc/amp.htm

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2 hours ago, sosoomii said:

Wtf is a “click”? A truly horrible and meaningless expression.

Meaningless is the whole point I think - diminished responsibility/accuracy on the commentators behalf,  add it to 'elbows out' as an AC36'ism......and never use it yourself :D

Oh but they can get the margin at every mark dead on, over and over and over and over...zzzzzz

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Why on earth aren’t they showing proper data throughout the races for us to see? 
just a snippet of VMG here and there. Annoying. 
It’s just two boats for fucks sake. 
 

tomorrow I’ll try syncing up the main video and the port/starboard YouTube videos. 

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On race 2, how did LR loose 300mt advantage in a bunch of seconds, right after passing the gate at the L4 bottom mark? Was it just for a wind shift, sailing in a "scarso" (means when your boat is suddenly in lighter wind condition, what is the English term?) or what?

 

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Just now, ErikG said:

Why on earth aren’t they showing proper data throughout the races for us to see? 
just a snippet of VMG here and there. Annoying. 
It’s just two boats for fucks sake. 

TVs did so, also in past cup editions. In my opinion, this is done the keep high pressure on spectators, who don't know exactly what's happening on the race course. Might be another sign that LR's VMG is constantly better than Ineos'?. 

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23 minutes ago, Dolphin65 said:

On race 2, how did LR loose 300mt advantage in a bunch of seconds, right after passing the gate at the end of L4? Was it just for a wind shift, sailing in a "scarso" (means when your boat is suddenly in lighter wind condition, what is the English term?) or what?

 

The gap will reduce when the leading boat starts an upwind leg because the trailing boat will still be on the downwind going faster. Also I think that was when LR made a very wide mark rounding.

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8 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Handbags wearing a cracker suit of sails today.

LR's mainsail looks like it's tailored by ....... well, Prada.

INEOS' mainsail looks like it's done by Boris Johnson's tailor.

 

55529496.jpg

13665532-0-image-a-1_1558210047722.jpg

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I don't think we didn't see anything unexpected today. LR were always going to have the advantage in the light and steady. And in the medium and steady breeze INEOS need to get everything perfect and have LR make mistakes. But INEOS got some calls wrong and LR were pretty faultless. 
 

 

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Enjoyed seeing them race again and admit a bit surprised by outcome, LR seems very agile and well practiced but much racing ahead.

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11 minutes ago, marlowe said:

The gap will reduce when the leading boat starts an upwind leg because the trailing boat will still be on the downwind going faster. Also I think that was when LR made a very wide mark rounding.

God, it was reduced to 65mt.... after a couple minutes it was back to 200mt, must be a wind shift

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Race 2 makes it look like LR had a speed advantage.

We have to hope that Ineos did have a poor sail choice because there is not much they can do about foils and mast at this stage. Unless Ineos can level the speed then this is going to go to LR too quickly.  You can win a few races with good tactics and a slower boat but ultimately the faster boat wins a series .    

So Im hoping there is a shift that Ineos can make otherwise this might not be very exciting.

 

Question for the rules experts.

In the unlikely scenario that Ineos wind Prada Cup but Ben acknowledges LR is a superior platform to Rita,  is Ineos allowed to borrow/buy LR for he final.  I recall when Dennis Connor won the defender trials in what he believed was the slower boat .....he exchanged Stars and Stripes for Young America?

I imagine the protocol bans that now. Plus with all the systems, data and set up differences  I suspect Team UK would be slower in LR than they are in Rita so it would never happen.

Based on what I saw last night, I regretfully conclude that LR has odds in their favor, simply seemed a faster boat.

 

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4 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Race 2 makes it look like LR had a speed advantage.

We have to hope that Ineos did have a poor sail choice because there is not much they can do about foils and mast at this stage. Unless Ineos can level the speed then this is going to go to LR too quickly.  You can win a few races with good tactics and a slower boat but ultimately the faster boat wins a series .    

So Im hoping there is a shift that Ineos can make otherwise this might not be very exciting.

 

Question for the rules experts.

In the unlikely scenario that Ineos wind Prada Cup but Ben acknowledges LR is a superior platform to Rita,  is Ineos allowed to borrow/buy LR for he final.  I recall when Dennis Connor won the defender trials in what he believed was the slower boat .....he exchanged Stars and Stripes for Young America?

I imagine the protocol bans that now. Plus with all the systems, data and set up differences  I suspect Team UK would be slower in LR than they are in Rita so it would never happen.

Based on what I saw last night, I regretfully conclude that LR has odds in their favor, simply seemed a faster boat.

 

Surely the constructed in country rule would preclude that. Stars and Stripes and Young America were both US boats, not British and Italian.

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37 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Race 2 makes it look like LR had a speed advantage.

We have to hope that Ineos did have a poor sail choice because there is not much they can do about foils and mast at this stage. Unless Ineos can level the speed then this is going to go to LR too quickly.  You can win a few races with good tactics and a slower boat but ultimately the faster boat wins a series .    

So Im hoping there is a shift that Ineos can make otherwise this might not be very exciting.

 

Question for the rules experts.

In the unlikely scenario that Ineos wind Prada Cup but Ben acknowledges LR is a superior platform to Rita,  is Ineos allowed to borrow/buy LR for he final.  I recall when Dennis Connor won the defender trials in what he believed was the slower boat .....he exchanged Stars and Stripes for Young America?

I imagine the protocol bans that now. Plus with all the systems, data and set up differences  I suspect Team UK would be slower in LR than they are in Rita so it would never happen.

Based on what I saw last night, I regretfully conclude that LR has odds in their favor, simply seemed a faster boat.

 

As per the Deed, it would be o.k. if the Ineos crew sailed for the CVS using Luna Rossa. Not sure about the protocol requirements tho.

Edit: OTOH, the RYSR would be the actual winner of the Prada Cup, so... no, no way to satisfy the CiC requirement and club representation at the same time.

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I found myself missing the moaning cow sounds we heard emanating from AM.  It seemed to add a bit of spice/angst to an otherwise boring display of tech following a parade route.  

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2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Race 2 makes it look like LR had a speed advantage.

We have to hope that Ineos did have a poor sail choice because there is not much they can do about foils and mast at this stage. Unless Ineos can level the speed then this is going to go to LR too quickly.  You can win a few races with good tactics and a slower boat but ultimately the faster boat wins a series .    

So Im hoping there is a shift that Ineos can make otherwise this might not be very exciting.

 

Question for the rules experts.

In the unlikely scenario that Ineos wind Prada Cup but Ben acknowledges LR is a superior platform to Rita,  is Ineos allowed to borrow/buy LR for he final.  I recall when Dennis Connor won the defender trials in what he believed was the slower boat .....he exchanged Stars and Stripes for Young America?

I imagine the protocol bans that now. Plus with all the systems, data and set up differences  I suspect Team UK would be slower in LR than they are in Rita so it would never happen.

Based on what I saw last night, I regretfully conclude that LR has odds in their favor, simply seemed a faster boat.

 

If Jimmie is on the wheel of the faster boat

This would be the stupidest question ever

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3 hours ago, Dolphin65 said:

God, it was reduced to 65mt.... after a couple minutes it was back to 200mt, must be a wind shift

It is very misleading on how the numbers are calculated and it is not always correct..  It all depends upon which angle they are sailing to the next gate and the current direction of the wind.  There are times where one boat is traveling at a much faster VMG and still losing ground based on the number they are reporting. 

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