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Having a race like that is why the committee was correct in postponing the race so many times. I think that the race was worth the wait.  Cheers to the Race Committee!

Semi Final Race 1 book is open - hit like for an AM win, dislike for LRPP.  Don’t sit on the fence now!

Please just stick to the facts and not your opinion.  You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how this all works.  The flu is down because of all the hand washing, social distancing, mask wearing,

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Just now, NSP said:

Really well sailed Ineos, definitely on the slower boat but good to see wins are still possible

Slower through the tacks but nothing in it in terms of boat speed maybe a touch

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9 minutes ago, .......................... said:

Friday night Highschool football games in Texas get more viewers than that .... 120,000 watched the 2019 state championship alone.

Yeah, dunno if that is worse commentary on Texans and their viewing perversions or how marginal the AC show really is.

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11 minutes ago, .......................... said:

Friday night Highschool football games in Texas get more viewers than that .... 120,000 watched the 2019 state championship alone.

yeah true, but you can't honestly compare the NCAA to the Americas Cup :D

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Ineos were faster both upwind and down according the race analysis and Luna Rossa sailed way less distance but tacked a lot more. Luna Rossa picked a couple of shifts towards the end too. So far if you lose the start you lose the race? In the light Ineos are a little tentative as Luna Rossa seem to have better speed though the tacks. During the starts Luna Rossa has usually been the leward boat and always squeezes Ineos out. In the last race the roles were reversed with Ineos finally in the leward position and they were able to squeeze Luna Rossa out with their high mode. A very consistent pattern emerging. 

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18 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

yeah true, but you can't honestly compare the NCAA to the Americas Cup :D

I am giving real statistics for 16-18 year olds in a single US state not even NCAA. I could care less about football but I hope there are a lot of other feeds because that is not adding up to the millions of eyeballs promised .Tour de France measures on 15 minutes of viewership as an “impression” and they claim 1.2 billion impressions over 21  days.

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ITUK fans rejoice! Finally cracked that goose egg.

However, tomorrow I intend to order from Pagliacci pizza a grand salami & far more importantly a four pack of "lowercase Italian style pilsner".

 

 

 

 

 

LR has won every race when I had my hand wrapped around a (pint) can of that particular local brew (fresh out this eve as luck would have it).

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29 minutes ago, .......................... said:

Friday night Highschool football games in Texas get more viewers than that .... 120,000 watched the 2019 state championship alone.

You can't even watch in America live though, at all. 

The broadcast rules of the Cup in America are monumentally stupid. It's hard to believe the people running this thing care about viewership numbers even in the slightest

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Not sure if this was mentioned further back but I'm unsure of the rule application for cancelling the OCS penalties at the beginning of race 5:

That start of Prada Cup Race 5 had a couple of incidents involved. Ineos fouled Prada for failing to keep clear under RRS 11, and both boats were OCS. The ruling on the water was the OCS penalties cancelling, and Ineos had to serve the penalty for breaking RRS 11. Based on my reading of the RRSAC v3.03, I don't think the OCS should have cancelled and neither boat met the definition of start. Here are the relevant rules and definitions from http://noticeboard.acofficials.org/rrs.

OCS A yacht is OCS when at her starting signal any part of her platform border is on the course side of the starting line.

Start A yacht starts when:
(a) her platform border having been entirely on the pre-start side of the starting line at or after her starting signal, any part of her platform border cross the starting line from the pre-start side to the course side; or
(b) having crossed the starting line from the pre-start side to the course side within 10 seconds prior to the starting signal and been identified as OCS, she completes a penalty for OCS.

29 RECALLS
When a yacht is OCS, it will be promptly identified via the RO Comms.

44.2 Penalties
(a) OCS Penalties
Penalty for yachts that are OCS:
(i) after her starting signal and while inside the boundary, the penalized yacht shall act immediately to reduce her VMG / VMC until she is 50 metres behind the other yacht, or
(ii) the penalized yacht shall start as per definition start (a).

44.4 All Penalties
The following applies to penalties described in rules 44.2 and 44.3:
(a)...
(b)...
(c) If a yacht has a penalty and the other yacht is penalized, each penalty shall be cancelled and this shall be signalled via the RO Comms. This rule does not apply to penalties for OCS.

At the starting signal, both boats are OCS and correctly penalized under 29 and 44.2(a). Since both boats now have penalties, 44.4(c) should kick in, but OCS penalties can't be cancelled using 44.4(c). This means boats have to serve a penalty dictated under 44.2(a)(i) or 44.2(a)(ii). Given how the distance penalties work, I'm not sure how they could serve the penalty using 44.2(a)(i) and would have to re-start as per 44.2(a)(ii). This seems to conflict with the call on the water.

Am I missing something here?

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2 minutes ago, jsn7821 said:

You can't even watch in America live though, at all. 

The broadcast rules of the Cup in America are monumentally stupid. It's hard to believe the people running this thing care about viewership numbers even in the slightest

Of course you can...I just did on NBC Sports. 

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6 minutes ago, sailer99 said:

Not sure if this was mentioned further back but I'm unsure of the rule application for cancelling the OCS penalties at the beginning of race 5:

That start of Prada Cup Race 5 had a couple of incidents involved. Ineos fouled Prada for failing to keep clear under RRS 11, and both boats were OCS. The ruling on the water was the OCS penalties cancelling, and Ineos had to serve the penalty for breaking RRS 11. Based on my reading of the RRSAC v3.03, I don't think the OCS should have cancelled and neither boat met the definition of start. Here are the relevant rules and definitions from http://noticeboard.acofficials.org/rrs.

OCS A yacht is OCS when at her starting signal any part of her platform border is on the course side of the starting line.

Start A yacht starts when:
(a) her platform border having been entirely on the pre-start side of the starting line at or after her starting signal, any part of her platform border cross the starting line from the pre-start side to the course side; or
(b) having crossed the starting line from the pre-start side to the course side within 10 seconds prior to the starting signal and been identified as OCS, she completes a penalty for OCS.

29 RECALLS
When a yacht is OCS, it will be promptly identified via the RO Comms.

44.2 Penalties
(a) OCS Penalties
Penalty for yachts that are OCS:
(i) after her starting signal and while inside the boundary, the penalized yacht shall act immediately to reduce her VMG / VMC until she is 50 metres behind the other yacht, or
(ii) the penalized yacht shall start as per definition start (a).

44.4 All Penalties
The following applies to penalties described in rules 44.2 and 44.3:
(a)...
(b)...
(c) If a yacht has a penalty and the other yacht is penalized, each penalty shall be cancelled and this shall be signalled via the RO Comms. This rule does not apply to penalties for OCS.

At the starting signal, both boats are OCS and correctly penalized under 29 and 44.2(a). Since both boats now have penalties, 44.4(c) should kick in, but OCS penalties can't be cancelled using 44.4(c). This means boats have to serve a penalty dictated under 44.2(a)(i) or 44.2(a)(ii). Given how the distance penalties work, I'm not sure how they could serve the penalty using 44.2(a)(i) and would have to re-start as per 44.2(a)(ii). This seems to conflict with the call on the water.

Am I missing something here?

Yes.

Start A yacht starts when:
(a) ...
(b) having crossed the starting line from the pre-start side to the course side within 10
seconds prior to the starting signal and been identified as OCS, she completes a
penalty for OCS.

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23 minutes ago, Sailor Y said:

Of course you can...I just did on NBC Sports

As did I, I gather that NBCSN is dicking around a bit with actual start times tomorrow (just checked on DIRECTV & actually showing 19:00 PST so maybe not!)

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Anyone thinking the boats haven’t got faster. 
 

re watch R1 Xmas cup, 14-18kts and going slower around the course and through tacks/gybes than today, 

peak speeds were higher but that was it

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1 minute ago, not from this world said:

Yes.

Start A yacht starts when:
(a) ...
(b) having crossed the starting line from the pre-start side to the course side within 10
seconds prior to the starting signal and been identified as OCS, she completes a
penalty for OCS.

Yes, but I don't believe (b) was satisfied. The umpire call was "OCS penalties cancel" which isn't allowed under 44.4(c). So both boats have to drop to 50m behind the other boat, but both boats didn't take a penalty.

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12 minutes ago, sailer99 said:

blahblah bla ......

............
44.4 All Penalties
The following applies to penalties described in rules 44.2 and 44.3:
(a)...
(b)...
(c) If a yacht has a penalty and the other yacht is penalized, each penalty shall be cancelled and this shall be signalled via the RO Comms. This rule does not apply to penalties for OCS.

At the starting signal, both boats are OCS and correctly penalized under 29 and 44.2(a). Since both boats now have penalties, 44.4(c) should kick in, but OCS penalties can't be cancelled using 44.4(c). This means boats have to serve a penalty dictated under 44.2(a)(i) or 44.2(a)(ii). Given how the distance penalties work, I'm not sure how they could serve the penalty using 44.2(a)(i) and would have to re-start as per 44.2(a)(ii). This seems to conflict with the call on the water.

Am I missing something here?

I tend to agree with you, and possibly why 44.4C exists....

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13 minutes ago, sailer99 said:

(c) If a yacht has a penalty and the other yacht is penalized, each penalty shall be cancelled and this shall be signalled via the RO Comms. This rule does not apply to penalties for OCS.

Interesting :huh:

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4 minutes ago, sailer99 said:

Yes, but I don't believe (b) was satisfied. The umpire call was "OCS penalties cancel" which isn't allowed under 44.4(c). So both boats have to drop to 50m behind the other boat, but both boats didn't take a penalty.

44.4C is a really badly written rule IMO.

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2 minutes ago, not from this world said:

44.4C is a really badly written rule IMO.

Maybe, but I kinda see the logic they were following. Possibly because of the situation where both boats are over but one is wildly unfairly advantaged. Will be interesting to see if the lawyers argue for the race to be scrapped. Technically it never started.

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3 minutes ago, Flags said:

Maybe, but I kinda see the logic they were following. Possibly because of the situation where both boats are over but one is wildly unfairly advantaged. Will be interesting to see if the lawyers argue for the race to be scrapped. Technically it never started.

Possibly, but I can see better logic in not letting foiling boats that close together try to get back to the line and restart. Though the carnage would be neat.

2 minutes ago, sailer99 said:

QA6 is also interesting regarding this: http://noticeboard.acofficials.org/rrs/qa

image.thumb.png.aa5db2a202bf0d5fdf819b7fa2777bfd.png

 

Doesn't relate to what we saw today.

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2 minutes ago, not from this world said:

Possibly, but I can see better logic in not letting foiling boats that close together try to get back to the line and restart. Though the carnage would be neat.

 

Oh so true :)

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2 minutes ago, not from this world said:

Possibly, but I can see better logic in not letting foiling boats that close together try to get back to the line and restart. Though the carnage would be neat.

Doesn't relate to what we saw today.

It reinforces that 44.4(c) doesn't get used when both boats are OCS. Hence both have to serve a penalty under 44.2(a). In the QA, they both serve the penalty as 44.2(a)(ii) by correctly crossing the line. In today's race the only way the penalties could have been cleared is under 44.2(a)(i), but that didn't happen from what I saw.

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9 minutes ago, Flags said:

Maybe, but I kinda see the logic they were following. Possibly because of the situation where both boats are over but one is wildly unfairly advantaged. Will be interesting to see if the lawyers argue for the race to be scrapped. Technically it never started.

Genius! 4-1 it is :D

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In relation to 44.4C, I think what they have come up with is that one boat wasn't carrying a penalty prior the OCS, therefore 44.4C does not apply as the penalties occurred simultaneously.

Sounds like something Richard would say.

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First race, Jimmy totally suckered Ben into barging and slammed the door, sorta like giving a little room to a guard driving the key and then blocking the shot straight into his face. I love that shit. 

Second race Ben had a huge speed build reaching down the line 34 vs 31 knots that they used to gain altitude and force the tack. Nice call by Gilles to Lee Bow the first cross and grab the pressure on the left. 

I think they all give up boat lengths on the mark roundings. Watch that tighten up soon. 

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20 minutes ago, sailer99 said:

It reinforces that 44.4(c) doesn't get used when both boats are OCS. Hence both have to serve a penalty under 44.2(a). In the QA, they both serve the penalty as 44.2(a)(ii) by correctly crossing the line. In today's race the only way the penalties could have been cleared is under 44.2(a)(i), but that didn't happen from what I saw.

Could the umpires be such amateurs?

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10 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Could the umpires be such amateurs?

Don't think so, they are pretty on it. Its a rather academic debate, but is an interesting one that's for sure. If I were Ineos, I would def have a crack it is the Americas Cup after all :)

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Just now, Flags said:

Don't think so, they are pretty on it. Its a rather academic debate, but is an interesting one that's for sure.

Definitely!  There will be clarifications asked I suppose,  if not a protest.

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2 minutes ago, Flags said:

Don't think so, they are pretty on it. Its a rather academic debate, but is an interesting one that's for sure.

Look at it another way, how could both boats take a penalty for ocs?

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2 minutes ago, BOI Guy said:

Look at it another way, how could both boats take a penalty for ocs?

That's exactly right, would be a comedy, and why I think 44.4C is badly written.

Dear chap, I'll take my penalty first then you can do yours, I'll wait for you....

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6 minutes ago, not from this world said:

That's exactly right, would be a comedy, and why I think 44.4C is badly written.

Dear chap, I'll take my penalty first then you can do yours, I'll wait for you....

Its hard to write rules for all scenarios, but I would guess the only fair thing in that situation is a general recall? 

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11 minutes ago, BOI Guy said:

Look at it another way, how could both boats take a penalty for ocs?

Traditionally by having to return to the pre-start side & re-starting.

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1 hour ago, 45Roller said:

yeah true, but you can't honestly compare the NCAA to the Americas Cup :D

Can't see too many of the 120,000 football-watching MAGAturds watching any yacht racing

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1 minute ago, Flags said:

Its hard to write rules for all scenarios, but I would guess the only fair thing in that situation is a general recall? 

Would be the laughing stock of the MR world, but given the wording used it may have been the best option.

Scratch that, abandon the race and restart it. Less of a laughing stock.

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1 hour ago, Kenny Dumas said:

I think they all give up boat lengths on the mark roundings. Watch that tighten up soon. 

Fastest and safest in these boats, it appears. This has been discussed.

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Being a LR fan, I hope UK will not complete a comeback, but in race 6 they showed that if they  don't screw the starts and sail well (and they have all the qualities to do so) they can easily win races. The boats are pretty even in performances (with still an edge for LR under 12Kts). This is also inspiring for the the upcoming AC match hoping it will be a close quarters fight, with the challenger well trained to do so.

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Bruni made a bad call on the lay at the top mark when LR was behind (JS called ineos on lay but Bruni said no - then LR overstood) wondered if they blew their best chance to recover the race there. Interesting what a little pressure does.

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2 hours ago, maxmini said:

What will the odds be on a boat that doesn't start first actually losing  race .

So far first one over is winning 5 to 0 .

 

For INEOS to win 7-5 the NZ TAB is offering 10-1

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